522 - Live at the Paramount Theatre (Denver Night 2)

0:00This is exactly right. Even when you hate everything, it's hard not to love Hyundai's electric EV lineup. From smart safety tech to long-term warranties, Hyundai's EVs are built to impress. Hyundai's electric EV lineup includes advanced safety features like highway driving assist to and blind spot collision avoidance assist. Available on models like the Ionic 5, Ionic 5, N, and Ionic 9. Hyundai's EVs come with America's best warranty, including a 10-year or 100,000-mile powertrain limited warranty. Learn more about Hyundai EVs at HyundaiUSA.com, call 5, 6, 2, 3, 1, 4, 4, 6, 0, 3 for complete details. America's best warranty claim based on total package of warranty programs, see dealer for limited warranty details, see your Hyundai dealer for further details and limitations. Goodbye! You know when you have the vacation coming up, so you're running errands and answering emails, but your mind is already relaxing in the future. Well, that's what happens when a trip to Baja Mar is on the calendar.

1:00A trip to Baja Mar offers over 45 restaurants, bars, and lounges, along with live music, nightlife, and one of the Caribbean's largest and most luxurious casinos. There's no shortage of experiences from the 15-acre Baja Bay Water Park to wildlife encounters and even a daily interactive flamingo parade. Start planning at BajaMar.com. Goodbye! Goodbye! We all have love languages, and that includes dogs. Some dogs are all about quality time, some love ear scratches, but most dogs, their love language is food. And that's why you want to make sure you're feeding them with the highest quality ingredients with Oli. It's the kind of meal dogs actually get excited about, with real fresh food that build a vowr. Our dogs give us everything. The least we can do is give them a really good dinner. Show your dogs some love in the way that they understand it best. Head to Oli.com slash murder, tell them all about your dog and use code murder to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box, so if you're not completely satisfied you'll get your money back. That's o-l-l-i-e.com slash murder and enter code murder to get 60% off your first box.

2:06Goodbye! What's up, Denver? Oh, my God, we're going to need hearing aids after this city, I swear to God.

3:09I always forget that's going to happen until I start walking on stage and that it surprises me. I'm just like, wow. Wow. Hi. Thank you guys for being here. Oh my God, Denver, this has been real. Yeah, thanks for being so patient these six years and waiting for us to come back. Come back? We really appreciate that. We do. I'm really mad though, because she has a sign and she's not wrong. What's it say? You promised air guitar. Do you remember? No. I said, if we ever go back on tour, I'll do air guitar. Okay. But I need music. But I need music. Can't wait. I'll do it. Vince. Bam, bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam.

4:10Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam, bam. Bam. We can be sure for a moment. I'm in a barf that was just an air guitar and nothing on stage. And that's what we do here. And that's what we do. So last night, was anyone here last night? Yeah. Okay. Thank you, front row. Very nice. Very nice. I don't know. The rest of them were at Lincoln Park. Yeah, you assholes. We know. We know what you're like back there. Last night was fun, because we forgot how to do this. It was our first night back in six years. We just kept calling line, line, over and over. No one had the script in hand. Looks terrible. We forgot the basics. But tonight is going to be fucking like. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Like, this is the podcast, my favorite murder. Oh, yeah. There's one of them. Oh, yeah.

5:12That's Karen Kilgera. That's Georgia Hartstark. We literally forgot to do that last night. Didn't do it. Like, we literally forgot to introduce ourselves. Simply didn't introduce ourselves or the show, like true show business professionals. It was. But you know what did happen is a moth like flew out of my dress and just hung out on stage all night. Yeah. It was pretty special. The moth was the third lead of the show last night. And then we found out that you guys love moths, you're apparently crazy. I like, they're good luck, right? Yeah. Why doesn't anyone ever, like, I'm the only person who knows that. I made it out. She made it out. Yeah. That's that thing with when you're the only person that knows something, because you're just lying. You might be loving. Moths are good luck, like in silence of the lambs. You know that fairy tale movie, silence of the lambs? Someone made a bracelet for us last night that said, may I use your phone, please?

6:16Would you know, you know? Right. Yeah. And you went to a baseball game, right? Oh, the first day I was here. My sister, who's very bossy, told me that I had to go to the Rocky Stadium and see what was going on over there. So happened, they were playing the young San Francisco, and I know it's probably called something else. This isn't about correct details. I hope you know that. So they were playing the young San Francisco Giants, where I'm from. So it was just like, you know, all good. And then, except there was a fight in the club, right? I know. Even better. I don't think it was that good. Come on. Did you show me? I went down there. I was like, why don't you guys act more like hockey players, and they're like fun. I did. No, it was gorgeous. It was beautiful. The sunset. I was like, yeah, I get it. I get Denver. You get sports? Oh, Denver.

7:16Yes, for sure. Sports here, like, we stood there for half an hour, kind of looked around and we're like, gorgeous. Okay. Here we go. We'll find out the score later. And what have you been doing? I went to a vintage store yesterday, because you have to. And I found this literal fucking dress there. Thank you. It's called... Oh, thank you. I'll just go ahead and show everybody. Look at her go. No pockets, because vintage doesn't really do that. They won't do it. They're so like, women don't need pockets. They need a handbag. You know? Fuck you. It's called... It was called... I just said the name. Bunchel. Bunchel. Thank you. Bunchel vintage. Very fucking awesome store. Promo Code Martyr. Oh, I forgot my ring. Shit. Shows over. Goldmine. Goldmine. It was called Goldmine. Oh, shit. Thank you, Bunch. Is... Should Vince come out and just say hi for one second?

8:20There he is right there. Yeah. There he is. My husband. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We decided that's our new thing for this tour. We're going to do a lot of this at each other. Everybody loves that. Kind of phony. Because we're so humble. You know? You guys know that about us. Bless and blessed be and bless you. This is a Christian true crime comedy. No, it's fucking not. That's the reveal in these six years we have married Christ and dedicated our lives. Phew. He came to the wrong show. What else? Also? I'll show my dress. Oh, my God. Show your dress. Sorry. Yes. Pockets. Pockies. What are you having there? A little lip gloss in case my mouth gets so dry that my lipstick to my teeth. Show this, Vince. Show me this.

9:20She is. Cool. Well, I forgot to put the Kleenex in my spanks tonight. So my nose is just going to free run for the whole show. Let it go. It's your show. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I found out that nervous nose running is a thing. So that's what I have. When I have everything fucking else that I have. You're suffering from NNR. That's terrible. So sorry. You don't have to suffer alone. If you suffer from NNR or someone in your family does. I might need a tissue, Vince. I'm sorry. Thank you. We just keep making him come out over and over. That's the new bit. That's the new answer. Oh, my God. Never mind. She has. Oh, we're good. Thank you so much. Classy. Very classy. Thank you. Angel. Thank you. See? See how it is? Oh, my God. I almost stuck that sticker. The open here on my chest because that's what I do when I eat an apple. I put the sticker on myself.

10:21Oh, thanks, Vince. He's clearly not watching the show backstage. Thank you. Just kidding. Just kidding. I thought you guys were really upset about my apple eating. No. Okay. Oh, wait a second. I think we do have to talk about the hometowns from last night. Oh, my goodness. Look, some of you were there and you know. We just want to talk about how it was for us. First of all, a woman named Katie sat front and center dressed as a hot dog. We were like, this is the best. And then we're like, great, you can be the audience ambassador and teach us how to pronounce everything that we're going to mispronounce in this town. And she's like, I'm not from here. We're like, fuck you, Katie. And then when we met her later, she was like, I really thought a lot more people would dress like hot dogs. She thought it was her. She thought it was her. Like, we're hot dog cosplay blood podcast. How many shows? Hell yeah. I mean, cosplay.

11:21Hot dog. Thank you. So many corners to touch. I appreciate. But this was my favorite. This truly is, it's a misunderstanding. We didn't truly, we didn't know our lines. So when it came to the part, we were supposed to tell people like, hey, here's the rules for hometowns. People want you to do it local. You know, don't take too long, global blood. And we didn't say any of that. We're just like, get up here and tell your hometown. And so the first person, her name is Katie also, I think. If I'm, I have no fucking clue. Okay, just be like, look everyone's name Katie. But she came up and we were like, hi, what's your name? And she's like, Katie and we're like, where are you from? And she's like, Broward, Florida. And the entire audience starts booing. Don't do it again. Don't do it again. We didn't say, it's totally on us. Like, we didn't say. What's on them too? Don't, this is not Lincoln Park for fuck's sake. Be nice. I don't have to be nice. You have to be nice. But she basically said, Broward, Florida.

12:22And then stood there smiling. And we're just like, we go, what's your hometown? And she's like, Broward, Florida. And we're like, thanks so much. And she walked off the stage. Yeah. But then later, we met her in the VIP. And she was like, oh, no, it's a story. I just got scared and left the stage. See what I mean? About what you did. So here's, actually, here's a good tip. If you really want to do a hometown, stop drinking now. Yes. Because it's scary up here. And being shit-faced does not help with it. Right. But I guess it doesn't a little bit. I don't know. And if you really want to do a hometown, and you can't stop drinking now, you're an alcoholic. So there's a lot to get from this show tonight. A lot to glean from the show. Hey, shall we sit down? I guess so. Thanks. Thanks. Georgia did remember that line last night. That was a huge relief. I sure did. We knew to sit.

13:22Who? Wow. Okay. Yeah, let's cheer for the logo. Designed by Georgia Heart Start. Does everybody know that? Yeah, but like the Notes app or something. It was saved in 2016. Yeah. Wow, something like this. Okay. Let's do the podcast. Do you want this to be the logo? Yes. And I'm like, do you want this to be the theme song? And she's like, yes. And I'm like, all right. Let's do this thing. We'll quit in three weeks. And we did. Do you want to tell them about this podcast? Okay. This is a true crime comedy podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Some people don't like that combination. They don't like the idea. They get very sensitive about it. So we do want to tell you that the reason that we do this podcast is because we have loved true crime since we were young, because we were incredibly traumatized by our childhood. And one of the ways that we deal with our trauma is through humor and comedy.

14:22And the other way is by reading a lot of true crime. And we found that combination to be very satisfying when we met each other. To the heartache, even. I would say. Yeah. And so we know that there are people who would argue or maybe have other things to say. And what we would like to say is get the fuck out right now. Right? It'd be so fun if like the entire first three rows were like, we're gone. Someday. Someday it's like that the bus from the senior center accidentally stopped here. And it's just like a whole fucking row of grandmas. It's just like, oh. But that happened in Florida. Remember the live show? Yes. We had a live show in Florida. Stop blowing, Broward Florida. We had this live show in Florida. And there were these two women who were older. And they were all dressed up and very fancy looking. But total someone's fancy grandmas. Yeah. And I couldn't stop looking at them the whole time.

15:22I'm like, who's fancy grandmas? Are these that are here at our live show in Florida? And we met them afterwards. And they were seasoned ticket holders that were like, what's this? And they fucking came to this swear fest murder fucking show. We were like, oh my god. But do we win them over? We sure fucking did. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. Yeah. So if you don't like it, there are grandmas better than you out there. In Florida for fuck's sake. In Florida. So like you have no excuse. Can you imagine? I don't like the mean tonight. I'm not sure. We are working through a lot of emotions. It's so exciting to be here tonight. It is so exciting. It really is. It is. I think you're first tonight. I double checked. Yeah, yeah. And then I said to Molly, we should really have that in the header of our, like when they print the stories. And she says, it's there. It's there. Yeah. Just read the fucking paper. Yeah.

16:22I'm like, you are fucking smart. It's great. You should probably tell us anyways. Love working with you. Love working with you. Oh, and Molly also sent us all of our lines. That was a little, that's a little passive aggressive of hers. What are you wearing tonight, Karen? It says, it says, what's up, city? What's up, city? I think we got that one. At least I'm having a hot flash tonight. I literally had a hot flash on stage last night. Yeah, you better. You got to represent the Perry and the Menopausals. Yeah. Right? Well, and I was at lunch today. Vincent and I were at this bar, because of course we were. And two seats down. I just hear out of the corner of my ear. Corner of your ear. Absolutely. Oh, I think I hear a hot flash. And I turn and look, and she's taking a little portable fan out of her purse. And I just like, we bonded. I was like, did you just say hot flash?

17:22I did. I'm just saying it yourself. Brilliant. Anyway, Karen, you're first tonight. Anytime you have a story like that, please jump in. All right. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. There's a huge difference between having a hobby and making it a career. And one of them involves invoices. Squarespace could do the tools to build a clean, professional site and get paid for what you do. Squarespace lets you showcase consultations, events, and experiences on a customizable website and get paid with professional invoices and online payments. Built in scheduling and email tools help manage bookings and communication without juggling multiple platforms. You can offer courses, videos, blogs, or memberships directly on your site all behind a paywall you control. Set one-time prices or subscriptions and create recurring revenue through your Squarespace website. Go to squarespace.com slash murder for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

18:22Goodbye. In the new HBO original series DTF St. Louis, everyone looks normal from across the street. But who wouldn't kill the spice things up? Jason Bateman, David Harbor, and Linda Cardellini star as three suburbanites experiencing midlife malaise. When two of them attempt to spice up their love lives on a dating app called DTF St. Louis, an unexpected love triangle ends with one of them dead. Don't miss the new HBO original series DTF St. Louis, premiering March 1st on HBO Max. Goodbye. If you get an alert from your security camera, ignoring it could lead to disaster. Luckily, they're simply safe. A home security system back by 24-7 monitoring, they can act when you can't. Traditional security systems alert you after someone has already broken in. That's too late. Simply safe's active guard out to our protection is designed to help stop a break-in before it happens. Simply safe protects over four million people and brings 20 years of home security experience. So it's no wonder that they were named home security system of 2026 by US News and World Report. I love the way simply safe makes everything so easy.

19:24Like the idea that their cameras set up so easy that you can just check those cameras on your phone, that the second you have a thought that maybe something is going on in some part of the house, you just like pick up your phone, it's all right there. And then if that's not something you can do, there are people that work there that do it for you. So you're always covered. It's the best of everything. And right now our listeners can get 50% off their news simply safe system at simplysafe.com-slave. That's simplysafe.com-slave-f-a-v. There's no safe, like simply safe. Goodbye. Goodbye. So maybe some of you were here when we played the Belko Theater in 2019. Thank you. That was an awesome show. These are all my cousins. So that night when we played the Belko and started to keep on mentioning the rival theater care amount. But I told the story of the Colorado Cannibal Alfred Packer.

20:25Thank you so much. I agree. So really quick before I get into my story, which is not that story, but I'm going to just refresh you about that story, because it is a part of this current news story, if you understand what I'm saying. Do you? There, I'm here. I'm going to focus more on you. I think it will help more. I'm me the story. It's your thing, more of you. Okay. They're all drag along. We didn't talk about the drag along. We didn't. It's supposed to go at the top of the speech about get them out, but it's fine. Molly was right about the notes. She's like, if you could just read them quickly before you walk on stage. And we're like, no, no. We'll read them on stage after we forget them. It's the new show business. Okay. So back in February of 1874, Alfred Packer was one of six gold minor or prospectors, I think, is more accurate.

21:25And they got lost in the San Juan mountains during one of the worst winter storms Colorado had ever seen. When the storm lets up, Alfred is the only survivor. He walks into the Indian agency, claiming that the rest of the group left him behind when his feet became frozen. Mean. So he says he doesn't know where they are. But authorities start to get suspicious about him when Alfred, who was known to be penniless by his horse and a saddle and starts drinking and playing a lot of cards in the saloon. He doesn't just eat them. He steals from them. Like, that's not cool. It's so gross. I know. So they start questioning him further and that's when he admits that he did eat the other five people in that party. But he's basically the whole story was I was lost for a month. It was pure desperation. He tells the whole story.

22:25Unfortunately, a little while later, an illustrator from Harper's Bazaar magazine is out here, figure out what the Wild West is about. And he comes upon five dead bodies that are lined up on a river bank and they've all been smashed in the head with a hatchet. And one of them is decapitated. And those are the rest of the party Alfred Packer was traveling with. So his story suddenly comes into question. Listen to me gasping even though I was definitely there for the story. Yes. I don't remember it. Yeah, it's all new. Yeah. That's the fun of this. So he's arrested, tried, found guilty on five counts of voluntary manslaughter, sentenced to 40 years in prison, which is a huge sentence back then. He files a peel after a peel with the help of a friend, but they're all denied. In 1901, he gets paroled. It's less than halfway through his sentence. So today, I'm going to tell you about that friend that helped Alfred Packer take two.

23:30Alfred Packer, the Colorado Cannibal, yep, go free from jail. This person was not a lawyer, not a politician. She was a gossip writer turned investigative journalist who made her name writing stories that earned her both respect and infamy. And she was the first female reporter that the Denver Post ever hired. You might know her by her. You might know her by her pen name, Polly Pry. This is the life story of Nell Campbell. Hell yeah, great. Great. Great talk. The sources that were used in this story today are a book by Julia Bricklin called The Woman Who Wrote The West. And there's a round Polly Pry and Nell Campbell. There's a lot of mythologizing, of course, when it's like old history like that. And she herself was kind of a sensationalist, sensational journalist for some part of her career. And Julia Bricklin gets in there and basically separates all the fact from fiction and is amazing.

24:32That's all from Marin. I have not read this book. I don't want to. Stolen Valor. I didn't read the book. There's also an article from Colorado Life Magazine by Matt Massage and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. You can check those, I guess. You guys love show notes. Show notes. It's your favorite thing. Okay, so here we go. Leah Nell Campbell, nicknamed Nell, is born November 27, 1859 in Clinton, Illinois. She said to have lied about her birthday to everyone for her whole life. But Julia Bricklin verifies that this is actually her real birthday. Okay. Thank you, Julia. Nell's parents are relatively wealthy, wealthy enough that she is educated at a private boarding school. That's rich. Yeah. But it's back in a time where women are expected to blend in and Nell very much stands out. She's very striking. Now, this was a funny experience for me today when I was going over all this. She's very striking.

25:33Her looks are described as kind of an alienish beauty that supermodels have. She has a symmetrical face with a mix of classically feminine and masculine features, with a prominent jaw and oversized piercing cat-like eyes. Can we take a look at Nell? I can't imagine. Okay. Look at her gazing off. That literally looks like my grandma in a nightgown who was alien supermodel like her whole life. I love the outfit. I almost wore that. I mean, that is, she is Christmas tree-coded right now, isn't she? So, she also has a tendency to literally do whatever she wants at all times. She does not care about societal conventions. One of us, one of us, one of us. For example, she poses for this incredibly controversial photograph. If you are under 18, please cover your eyes and pray to your chosen God.

26:33Let's take a look. Oh, my God. That is gorgeous. Slut. Oh, my God. That is the rug from tonight. So, okay, thank you. So, in her relationship with her first husband, George Henry Anthony Jr., you know there is a problem when he has three first names. Absolutely. It happens every single time. We don't know how they met. The first layer for drama and exaggeration makes it very hard to pin down. For example, she claims that she was just a teenager when she met him and that he was in his 50s, but actually in reality, she was in her mid 20s and he was almost 30. What a weird brag. Well, that old man snapped me right up. I was a child. Just a child.

27:34The thing about it though is he was a married father of two. No, that's a big no. When his wife finds out, of course, she gives him the boot. She files for a divorce, which is very scandalous at the time. It's 1883. George and Nell then marry a few months afterwards in St. Louis. And so this story is not, someone cheered for St. Louis. This story, yeah, you can. This story is not about George Anthony Henry Anthony Jr., but it's worth it to digress to talk about him because he is kind of the worst. He's a bum husband, he's a bum father, he's also a nepo baby. He's the son of the seventh governor of Kansas, and his success in life is fully just brought to him by his rich father, who helps him get one prestigious job after another. So when he's in his late 20s, he's given a job at Leavenworth Prison, replacing an experienced employee already, holding the post.

28:39It's so baffling that the local newspaper actually reports, quote, to take away a man of experience and judgment and put in a white-headed boy seems like a folly. Yeah, don't look around in a prison with employees, right? Like that's the wrong. Go to a bank and fuck around. It's not very nepo baby to go to live Leavenworth. I'd love to spend a lot of time here. Then in the mid 1880s, he's handed yet another high-paying gig, which he has no business doing, which is working on the Mexican Central Railroad. He leads that job then to start a lumber company with his father and go cut down Mexican forests just bad after bad. He and Nell moved from Mexico to Texas to Kansas City, and the whole time, the whole time, Nell plays the role of a rich housewife. She throws parties and entertains guests, and she keeps up appearances. But after four years, she gets bored, and she's done.

29:40So the marriage is on the rocks, and she files for divorce, scandal. George goes crawling back to his ex-wife after this. Four years. Four years. While Nell ditches high society and heads to New York City with all of her cash, jewelry, and expensive furs. But as we all know, New York's a very expensive town, so she burns through that cash right quick. And this is before Alimony or spousal support. So obviously, her role at this time in America would be to find another rich guy to marry, but she's done with that life. She wants to earn a living as a songwriter and actress. I mean, that sounds pretty sweet. Honey. Honey. Honey. So she finds and befriends a very creative group of New York writers and editors and publishers, and they recognize that Nell actually does have something very special about her. She's fiery, she's smart, and she is not easily intimidated

30:43by other people. So she's offered assignments with their newspapers, like The New York Herald and The New York Journal, but it's mostly gossip, calmness, and society reporting. But it turns out Nell's made for that job. She has this amazing ability to get people talking and telling stories. And that gets her the nickname PolyPry. Now, what is it? PolyPry. Oh, that's right. You're crying. She just gets them shit-based, I bet. Yeah. Right. That's the way to do it. Like two compliments, three shots. Now you're telling me everything about your life. That's right. And you might remember, I covered the story of Nellie Bly, who was the female reporter. Her real name was Elizabeth Cochran, and she's the one that went into the Insane Asylum and basically exposed how horrible that New York City and Insane Asylum was. Yeah. So basically, people think that PolyPry is like a little play on Nellie Bly. Okay. Because that was 10 years before.

31:43Got it. This time. Just trying to put it in a timeline based on all the stories I've done on this podcast. And nothing else. So now it's the 1890s and Nell is in her mid-30s. So she is a big family. Two of her younger brothers have tuberculosis. And so her family moves to Colorado because the air is apparently very dry here. Good job, you guys. And filled with mobs. So after one of these younger brothers dies from the disease, Nell decides she's going to leave New York City and come to Denver to be with her family. So after about a year, she is on a train and she sits across from this man that she doesn't know who is old-fashioned style holding up a newspaper but he's reading. No, he is. It just doesn't happen anymore, unless you're trying to hide from the cops. So she sees that this newspaper had done their headlines in red

32:44and she goes, how awful. And the owner of the newspaper is the guy holding the newspaper. Yes, that's right. You just insult people by opening your mouth. It's a fun thing to do. I do it all the time. The story of my life. Yes, I didn't mean it like that. So this man is Frederick Gilmer-Balfee and he is the co-owner of the Denver Evening Post which is now the Denver Post. And it is Colorado's newspaper of record. So Nell, who of course, Nell is very embarrassed but she's no stranger to putting her foot in her mouth and she's very good at charming people. And basically she recovers. She charms Frederick. He invites her to dinner. They go eat in the dining car. They have this wonderful meal. And essentially it goes so well that by the end he offers her a job. Well, yeah. And so bad things happen and then you can get a job after. Just believe. Believe that if you insult men enough, they'll give you a job.

33:45Yeah. We love it. So it works. So at this point in Denver history, the city's population is booming and there is a serious competition between the local newspapers for readers. So Frederick and his business partner, Harry Tamman, they really want to win the Colorado newspaper wars. Can we take a look at Harry and Frederick? Oh. Supermodels alien life in their beauty. Yeah. Layla Gritch. Doesn't it look like he just pulled that mustache out of his pocket? It's like, it was just a bunch of moths. We can land it on his face. This moth problem is really a problem. And they all fly away. Oh, it's one big one. Anyway. So fortunately for them, they have a real edge in the newspaper wars because they've just hired good old Nell Campbell,

34:47Paul LePry, who pulls no punches, so the Denver Post is primed for victory. And right off the bat, Nell's first interview makes waves. It's with a political candidate who's running for senator and Nell makes no bones about how she feels about this man. She writes, quote, if tones could freeze, the marrow in my bones would have congealed then and there. The voice of the would-be senator was so isolated unfriendly. Wow. How would you say that? What a dick. Fucking dick. She also describes him as, quote, tall, thin, nervous, and irritable with a harsh voice and cold gray eyes. And she also goes on to warn the public that if he wins a Senate race, political cartoonists will have a field day with him. Wow. And you're just like this skinny, nervous guy that's like, God damn it. Just trying to make a living.

35:47Why did I talk to that goddamn woman? Author Julia Brickling writes, quote, no, sorry, it's not a quote yet, that Nell now begins to gravitate toward exposing, quote, those she considered particularly out of touch with progressive politics, hypocritical, right, or entitled, or perhaps all of these things. So she's after it. She's doing it. She is holding their feet to the fire in a time where women, and don't hold me this, because I'm not sure, but I don't think they could vote yet. Pretty fucking sure that we couldn't. Here come the emails explaining to me how dumb I am. But Nell is fearless in her reporting. She publishes hit pieces on reverends, on city officials, even Colorado socialites, like the famous philanthropist and Titanic survivor, the unsingable Molly Brown. She goes after Molly.

36:47She goes fucking after an unkillable socialite. Wow. But despite that, she actually calls her, in one of her columns, quote, the worst kind of social climber. Damn. All right. This was probably before she almost froze to death in the icy waters of the North Sea. Despite this, Nell and Molly eventually become friends. Yeah. Girl power. Nell's work is pretty polarizing. Many readers wonder who the hell this woman thinks she is, and why that she's not making them flaky fresh biscuits instead of writing. But her bluntness and her brashness make her a standout. She's not afraid to ask the hard questions to show up uninvited or to name names. And because of that, her readers devour her articles. So now we're in 1899, and since Nell's bosses at the post are always looking for ways to sell more newspapers, they figure what better way to do that than to send their

37:49firecracker lady reporter out to check on the Colorado cannibal himself. And Nell says, hey, yes, I'll go talk to that fucking cannibal. Sounds good to me. Shut up. Yeah. So like battle happens. Yes. And they're like, hey, you piss everyone off. Why don't you go talk to this murdering cannibal? Here's another guy that pissed a bunch of people off. Right. Yikes. Yes. So Nell travels 100 miles south of Denver to a prison in Canyon City. You know what? They don't. It doesn't seem like it's a great place. Oh, the prison? OK, so she has to follow the warden around. She like shadows him to get the tour. And she finds this prison extremely disturbing. She can't stop thinking about the difficult life circumstances that led each inmate to this awful place and how dark their futures are. And she's disgusted to learn that members of the public can pay 25 cents to come and gawk at the prisoners. Oh, no.

38:49Did you know that that was a thing that used to do? No. What do they just stand and stare after church? And how much do you think 25 cents was back then? OK. And we're in 1890. It's like 1890. I can't find that fucking piece of paper. OK. Well, I guess I'm going to go $12. $10. That was good. Oh, if you're a drag along, that was amazing. That was so close. I know it doesn't sound close, but it was really close. I guessed like eight different monies from a different time with Georgia last night, and I was never within $100,000. But we also decided we're not doing that anymore. Oh, that's right. That's right. That was the last one. Thank God. Goodbye, dumb thing. OK. So ironically, kind of Nella's introduced to Alfred Packer in the prison kitchen. Oh, I hear. OK. Yeah. That's for a second. Yeah, yeah.

39:49Yeah. That's weird. He is now around 58 years old, and Nell, not surprisingly, gets a very bad vibe from him. She will describe him in an article. And this is what Marin wrote. She goes, like, he's describing a cartoon devil. It says, quote, dead black hair, glittering eyes, sodie mustache and goatee, and sarcastic smile. End quote. Yeah. There's a tiny moth right now. For real? Yes. Like a teeny tiny one. Have you guys noticed it? Or am I having a seizure? No. Do you think it's the same one from last time? No. Do you think that one's dead? No. I don't know where that one went. Maybe it might. Like this. Cutie coat. But there's a teeny tiny one. Come on. Oh, you're trying to get it to lay on your finger. Yeah. Come on. We've all seen Snow White. Oh. That one is so cute. We would have a whole different show if moths started landing on our fingers.

40:53See? I'm not going crazy. What's the rule of the theater? No smoking. No children. No live animals. And yet, here we are, contending with this moth all night long. Try to focus, everybody. Yeah. Okay. The kitchen meeting is quick. And she is very, she wants to spend more time with them. She wants to talk to him more. So she sets up a formal interview for the next day. But it doesn't start out well because Alfred Packer, of course, is like, you're just here to sensationalize me and to, you know, make his life worse. And it's judgy of him. I know. It's judgy of a cannibal. Especially from his background. I do. You know, it's like. Okay, dude. Give a little grace. You ate five people. But when Nell gets Packer talking, he starts telling her his version of this infinite story, explaining to his account that they crossed the San Juan Mountains. They got lost, supplies ran out.

41:53He claims one man lost his mind and started shooting at the others. And he, he, and so Alfred was forced to shoot the shooter. Okay. And kill him dead. Yeah. So it was just self-defense. Oh, sorry. He's basically saying the shooter killed the other four men. Then Alfred had to kill him. And then he's like, and then I just had to eat everybody. It's the age old, wasn't me. He claims cannibalizing the dead men was just another act of survival. So Nell is, this is a convincing story to Nell. She's there with him face to face. And she thinks this is compelling. And whether he was a murderous cannibal or a man caught in an impossible position, she sees this as a great way to start the larger discussion of the difficulties that the accused face in this country in the US justice system, which fuck yeah, 100 years ago. No. Not even close.

42:55She focuses on whether or not Packer was actually fairly tried. Not so much about the cannibalism. She's able to brush cannibalism aside for just a little while. And the more she investigates, the more she's convinced, that he was not, that there was no hard evidence or eyewitnesses presented at this trial that definitely proved that his story was false. And there was a ton of hysteria and of course a ton of sensational reporting that Nell believes led to his conviction. So she becomes hell bent on getting Alfred Packer justice. She convinces her boss, Frederick Balfee, with the Moth Mustache, to let her write sympathetic coverage of him in the post. Because she wants her readers to envision a scenario where they might somehow wind up in an impossible situation. Convicted of a crime based solely on circumstantial evidence with no way to advocate for yourself. Minus the cannibalism.

43:55Minus the cannibalism. So now it's a big job for Nell as Paulie Pry. Everyone in America knows Alfred Packer as the guy who ate five other guys. So this is one of the post most incendiary reporters basically vigorously defending Alfred Packer. There's backlash. But when an opportunist lawyer named William Anderson gets involved, it like ratchets things up a notch. So this part of the story is a little fuzzy, but essentially this guy, William Anderson, tries to swindle money from both the owners of the post and from Alfred Packer, saying that he'll represent both of them. And he takes retainer money from both. And then when the guys from the post find out, he did it to reporters. And it's like, they'll find out. They're really good at finding stuff out. That's kind of their thing. So they confront Anderson at the newspaper offices.

44:57So we don't know which one, if it was Frederick or Harry, but one of them directly accuses Anderson of having no ethics. He threatens to get him disbarred unless he returns that money. And then Frederick thinks he sees Anderson reaching for a weapon. So he lunges at him and holds him down. Paulie gets, like goes over and tries to beg them to stop fighting. As it turns out, Anderson does have a gun on him. And so he wrestles himself free. He grabs that gun. He fires it twice. He hits both Frederick and Harry. And then when he steps forward to finish Harry off with a third shot, Nell steps in front of the gun and shields her boss. So Harry Tanen will later say about this. Just as Anderson was about to fire the third shot, Paulie pry rushed between us. Had it not been for her, doubtless I would have been killed. She placed herself in front of his pistol and moved with it as he tried to reach me.

45:58Bad ass. Would you do that for your boss? No fucking way. Well, I think there's that thing with guns. Maybe it's because it was like Wild Westie era where it's like there were probably super used to guns or people. It's like a church where it like falls out of your pocket. Sorry. Yeah. But stepping in front of a gun. Wow. Yeah. What? It's been. The goodness is both of the owners of the post survive. Anderson is taken into custody for attempted murder. And Nell becomes an outright legend. Stories start to circulate that she's the one that wrestled the gun out of Anderson's hand and that her big skirts caught the bullets that would have killed her boss. She wrote that herself. Yeah, she did. I bet she fucking made it up. Good for her. She deserves it. Yeah. Was it more of their typewriters back then? I think so. In the end, Nell's reporting on Alfred Packer becomes creates enough discourse

47:00that popular opinion about his crimes and conviction actually does change. Wow. People seem to agree that it is impossible to tell whether his story of self-defense and survival are true or if he maliciously killed those five men, and that's what we call reasonable doubt in this country. So Alfred Packer winds up being paroled, not pardoned. And he's paroled in early January of 1901. So Nell delivers his release papers herself to him. Packer spends the next six years as a free man. He dies of a stroke in 1907 at the age of 65. A devout vegetarian. Just kidding. Oh. That was not very tasteful. Oh. She loves a pun. She loves a pun. Thank God I didn't do the five guys joke. Oh, my God. We do it. No, that was it.

48:02You guys were all thinking it. The original five guys. Their bodies were laid out on the riverbed and a shit ton of french fries over here. Like, why so many french fries? That's french fries for four. Okay. So her experience in interviewing Alfred Packer gets Nell really fired up about the injustices of the American prison system. So she starts reporting on it extensively. She works to get other incarcerated people released from prison. She also investigates the abuse and neglect inside the state run asylum here. Wow. Yeah. And just like Nellie Bly. She also investigates the treatment of patients in military hospitals. And she even starts writing about the very at the time secretive practice of polygamy within the Mormon church. She doesn't give a shit. I like her. Yeah, I do too. You'll like her more when you hear this. In 1903, she gets a tip about the horrific conditions at the Fort Lewis Indian School in Durango.

49:09So if you don't know about Indian schools, horrifying. I think people are hearing about them more and more now. But this was one of the many US run boarding schools that were built to assimilate Native children to European American culture. They were horribly abusive. And at the time, most white Americans did not know or they did not care about those abuses against Native American children. But Nell cared very much. So she starts doing some digging. And she books a 10-day trip to Durango and just starts interviewing anyone that will talk to her about these schools. She hears one horrible story after another about children being denied medical care, being forced to perform brutal labor, and being sexually abused by the school's superintendent Dr. Thomas Breen. He was also sexually assaulting teachers. Like it was fucking horrifying mayhem. There's some bad stuff back then. And now, Nell's reporting on this school will later be described as some of her most heartfelt detailed and deeply researched reporting of her career.

50:17And like her Alfred Packer reporting, it actually creates change in a small way. And that is that she gets Dr. Breen fired from his post. Great. We like that. The power of journalism. Back in DC, the Bureau of Indian Affairs is not happy with her. Of course not. The commissioner puts out a statement minimizing her reporting as quote, sensational newspaper attacks. Okay. Except for they were so specific though. Yeah. So specific. So the thing about Nell is, or now sorry, is that around the same time she's also writing scathing attacks on Colorado labor unions. She goes so far as to accuse the leaders of exploiting the working class and intentionally creating chaos. So this is not unusual for a reporter of her time. And there may have been corruption taken place. We all know it's everywhere.

51:17But her writing on this issue veers into the highly problematic as many things were back then. And unfortunately not uncommon. She talks about things like class and immigration, immigration, writing derogatory columns about the Irish immigrants moving to Colorado to work in the mines. It's always just the different new people that they want to attack. Goddamn. So on one hand she tackles these amazing progressive issues like prison conditions and the Native American boarding schools. And she also does some articles about the treatment of black soldiers in the US Army. She does a ton of stuff about women's suffrage. But then she digs her heels in on this labor issue. And she's not good. She's blinded by her biases. She doesn't seem to realize how contradictory her stances are. And she doesn't care how much anger she's basically creating.

52:20Because that's kind of what she's like. Then in the early 1900s, she hears a knock at her door. And when she opens it, a man is standing there. He fires twice. He's holding a gun. He fires twice. But no fucking starts to slam the door nice and early. So the bullets get stuck in her nice big wooden door. Shit. Wow. Yeah. And the man runs away. He's never caught. Nell assumes this man is somehow from the labor unions. And he's been sent to assassinate her. The labor unions themselves suggest that maybe Nell staged the attack to drum up publicity and sympathy which is something that she had done. And of course to sell papers. It's also possible that this man hated Nell for any of the other incendiary reporting that she had done over the last decade. Or for the fact that she was just a woman. There are so many reasons to hate her. But either way, when she gets into this part of her career, her stance on unions,

53:20and then the controversial reporting that the government gets mad about about the Indian school atrocities, the Denver Post fires her. Okay. So here's the good news. It doesn't stop her. Because at heart, she really is this investigative reporter. So at 44 years old, and this is like in the early 1900s, she basically starts a sub-stack. And she names it Polly Pry. It's a publication, the only female lead publication of the time. Wow. And it's great. It's split into four sections. The first one is gossip, of course, first and foremost. Second is Denver and Colorado politics. The third, oh, sorry, the gossip section is called Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil, which is hilarious. That's a good one. That's like saying Jesus wants you to gossip. Like, shut up. Now, you are a crazy girl.

54:20Another section on local theater. And of course, the last on automobiles. Sure. It's like Bridgerton. There's something for everyone. By September of 1903, Nell has 3,500 subscribers to this. Which is today's people. That's a fucking lot of people, right? There's so many people. Yeah, like back in the pool. For a woman writer. But then, not long after she creates it, she gets bored and sells it. Because that's our girl. Good for you. Right? Yeah. And then she goes, she goes back to New York City. And we don't know the kind of chronology of this, but there. She very quietly marries a man named Harry O'Brien. And she's keeping it quiet because once again, I don't know. Married with children. Girl. Your favorite TV show. She basically does it all in secret because she's deathly afraid that some other gossip columnist is going to come and report

55:22on the gossip columnist and her gossip. Look who's calling the kettle. Yeah. That's our, that's our new t-shirt. Get ready, everybody. God, I'm almost done. I swear to God. This marriage is short lived. Okay. Nell divorces Harry a few years later because she learns that he had another wife in a different state. Man, you got it. Love on. Now in her 60s, Nell heads back out west in 1908. Oh, in 1908. She wrote this. Because she really misses Colorado. A few years later, she takes a job at the Denver Times. And she starts reporting on the Mexican Revolution. She goes to Mexico and spends six weeks trying to get an interview with the revolutionary Pancho via. Holy shit. Yes. And remember, she used to live in Mexico with her first three named

56:23husband. And so she speaks the language. She works her magic. And she does get a meeting with Pancho via. And in that interview, she does the same shit she always does. Okay. She pulls no punches. And she claims later that at one point she gets him so mad he turns red. But then she turns the charm on. She wins him back. And basically, he invites her to interview him again sometime. All right. So it all works out. That's according to her. Okay. Others say she ate five men. I'm so tired of reading this. The first of Nell's articles from Mexico is published in April of 1914. There's some of the most popular pieces of the Denver Times has ever produced. It reinvigorates her reporting career. And she starts covering everything from Colorado theater to the battles of World War One. She's also working hard to develop a local theater scene in Denver.

57:25She produces plays and musicals to varying degrees of success. You died to watch one of those. On this very stage, she's also an active member of course of the Denver Women's Press Club. And she, do we got some members in the house tonight? You are fucking lying. The Denver Women's Lying Club is more like it. Nell continues her very vocal advocacy for women's suffrage. And of course, the fight to get women in more newsrooms last page. It's not until she's in her late 70s that Nell starts to dial back her workload a bit. Oh. Can we take a look at that last picture of Nell in her later life? Oh. What happened? Why is she so cross-hatched? I think it's... I think it's that Harper's Bazaar Illustrator. There's so fucked up from finding those five bodies on the riverbank. I guess that's what she looks like out of head.

58:25Wow. Okay. That's kind of insulting. That's what Botox is for. I mean for real. Daxify. It's not until she's in her late 70s that Nell starts to dial back her workload. But then on July 15th, 1938, when she is 79 years old, she suffers a heart attack and dies. The next day, the Denver Post writes about her final moments, saying, quote, a moment before passing with characteristic energy, she raises herself from the bed and said to the attending nurse, I must be up. And then she dies. Those are her last words. It's fucking sentence. Yeah. That sucks. I must be up. What is that? Me. In 2011, Nell was inducted to the Denver Press Club Hall of Fame. And biographer Julia Brickland says that the honor was something, quote, she might or might not have coveted depending on how she felt about

59:27whomever was president of the organization at the time. It sounds right. What would matter to her the most is that she paved the way for women journalists who came after her to sit proudly in their newsrooms, right? Or at the helm, or at the helm of their own business knowing that they had just as much to contribute to the field as any male colleague. And that's the story of trailblazing Denver journalist Nell Campbell. Oh, good job. Thank you. Good job. Amazing. Yeah. That's it. That's really something to be proud of. Denver, that's very cool. In the new HBO original series, DTF St. Louis, everyone looks normal from across the street. But who wouldn't kill the spice things up? Jason Bateman, David Harbor, and Linda Cartelini star as three suburbanites experiencing midlife malaise. When two of them attempt to spice up their love lives on a dating app called DTF St. Louis,

1:00:29an unexpected love triangle ends with one of them dead. Don't miss the new HBO original series DTF St. Louis premiering March 1st on HBO Max. Goodbye. There is nothing worse than buying furniture online and being disappointed when it shows up. With article, the quality is clear right away, from the materials to the craftsmanship. Article makes it effortless to create a stylish home with long lasting pieces at an unbeatable price. Article takes great care in curing its collection, focusing solely on meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. There's no filler, every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value. With article 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence. Knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. This piece of mine ensures that you can invest in your home without hesitation. You know what I hate is posts that tell you what is out in the coming year when it comes to design. And it's like, if you have a classic style and you love beautiful pieces, you never have to look at those ads. It's not true. It's like not trendy.

1:01:30I'd love that article pieces will never be on those lists. It's timeless when you shop with article. That's right. And also, instead of being influenced by trends, when you look at article's website, you see it's things that like they're always popular. They always look beautiful. If you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed, head over to article.com. Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you by Kleenex Lotion Tissues. Life doesn't slow down if you get sick. But with Kleenex Lotion Tissues, you're prepared for cold and flu season. No matter what surprises come your way, staying prepared makes all the difference. Kleenex Lotion Tissues protect, soothe, and moisturize your skin, giving you a little extra support when you need it most. Keep them wherever you live your life at your desk in the car or right at home. Whether you're diving into research rabbit holes, listening to your favorite podcast, or just dealing with the runny nose, Kleenex Lotion Tissues, made with coconut oil and aloe, are a little comfort that goes a long way during the cold and flu season. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

1:02:31You know what else is something to be proud of? What? The Stanley Hotel. Yes! I'm going to fuck and tell you about the ghosts and the hauntings of the Stanley Hotel. There are people going list with their arms. What? They're at a revival. Got to wait. The Stanley Hotel. Oh, I want to see a picture of it. Let's look at the picture on the Stanley Hotel. Hey! Have you guys stayed there? She has glasses on. Sun glasses. Okay. We should look up there with Yelp reviews right now and just see it. It's nice. And the rugs were, oh no. It's nice, but the ghosts touch my toe. Okay. So tell me if this story makes you believe in ghosts more. Okay. Or not. So I'm going to tell you. So here's where we're going to start.

1:03:31The year's 1974 and we're in Estes Park. Why not just one of you? Estes. Estes Park. Thank you. Did you do it or not? Estes Park. Okay, great. Thank you. You guys don't sound sure. We should have come. Let's not say it again. Let's stop talking about it. It's about an hour and a half north west of here and a popular gateway to the Rocky Mountain National Park, you guys. Okay. And so here we are in a married couple. They're both authors based in Boulder. They are desperate this day to get away from their little kids for just one fricking night. You guys all know. So they find a sitter and they check into a hotel. It's the fall and the hotel is about to shut down to the winter. And it turns out this couple really only two guests in the whole place. I know this story. First you do. As some of you may have already figured out, thank you, Ali, for writing that.

1:04:33Like Karen, the authors are Stephen King and his wife, Tabatha King. Yes. And tonight's story is about the historic Stanley Hotel, one of the most haunted places in America and the inspiration for the overlook hotel in the novel The Shining. Amy. Oh, yeah. You get to do a story that involves Stephen King. I know. That's the best. I know. Congratulations. And I have an anecdote about their marriage that makes me fucking love them. Okay. I'll just use for the stories of what called the history and haunting of the Stanley Hotel by Rebecca F. Pittman and the rest of our sources can be found in our show notes. So Stephen's half of the king checking to room 217 at the Stanley Hotel in the fall of 1974, as I said. They're the only guests in the whole place. And that night they eat at the hotel's restaurant. And Stephen King says later, quote, except for our table, all the chairs were up on the tables. So the music is echoing down the hall. And I mean, it was like God had put me there to hear that and see those things.

1:05:35Men. And quote. It's all for me. If I walked into a restaurant and all the chairs were on the table, I'd be like, they don't want us here. Yeah, buy it. Like, go away. Just give the closing crew their last 15 minutes a piece. Seriously? They don't want to make your fucking penny. Yeah. Um. Oh, wait. Let's see. You know what's weird? I did not know that he wrote that based on his own experience. I've never heard that before. Well, you're going to hear it now. Okay. Um. And as the night wears on, he can't shake that unsettling feeling. He says, quote, wandering through the corridors. I thought that it seemed the perfect, maybe archetypal setting for a ghost story that night. I dreamed of my three-year-old son running down the corridors looking back over his shoulder. His eyes wide screaming. That's fucking creepy. Um. I woke up with a tremendous jerk sweating all over within an inch, a falling out of the bed.

1:06:36I got up, let a cigarette. Yeah. Yeah. Sat in the chair looking out the window at the Rockies, and by the time the cigarette was done, I had the bones of the book firmly set in my mind. That's. That sounds great to write a book. And here's a photo of them. Yeah. I would wear her dress so hard. Oh, my God. Look at that. She's like, can we please leave this gala? Stephen, you've got. Stephen! Stephen! Stephen! Stephen! He's not here, but he did text me. I'm sure he text you too. Break away tonight. Yeah, Stephen, he's here. He's not here physically, but he's here in spirit. Yeah, as a mom. He's a tiny. He's a mom. He's the mom. He's the mom. The mom has a big mustache. The mom has a mom. Here's an anecdote about their relationship. When Stephen King was writing the novel 11, 22, 63, for some fucking reason, a big part of his

1:07:40process was listened to the extended, listen to this. And imagine being married to this person. The extended dance mix of Lou Begaz's 1999 hit, Mamba No. 5. Yes! Lou Begaz's 1999 hit, Mamba No. Extended dance version over and over again. He listened to the song so much that this fucking badass threatened to divorce him if you played it one more time. That's a tough one to have on repeat. I don't know. I mean, it's the absolute... That's very positive and upbeat, but you just don't want to hear. You don't want to hear it that much. Now you have to read that book, listening, and you can hear it the whole time. And now I'm going to be thinking about it for the rest of your story. She said one more time and I'm going to fucking leave you. Which, holy shit, we love her. Okay, so if Stephen King knew about the Stanley Hotels' very long history of strange occurrences, some which happened in the very room he slept in before his stay, he doesn't ever mention it.

1:08:40So we don't know. But you've got to imagine Stephen King goes into an old hotel and is like, I bet this is haunted. Every time. I'll go ahead and take room. Three, seven, two. Three, seven, two. Okay. Close. And today's... And today's... Got it. So let's get into this hotel and the long and spooky history leading up to Stephen King's fitful, fateful night. The Stanley Hotel opens on July 4th. Your favorite. I love America. 1909, it's this, you know, big grand hotel built in the colonial revival style. Like my house? Your house? No. With the white exterior, it's just... The majestic is the word that they would use. Was it festooned? Oh, it's festooned. I'm sure they're rebellious. I don't know. Let's see. And so it had been built by the man named Freelin Oscar Stanley. Oh.

1:09:40Three first names. What's that first name? Freelin. I guess Freelin? He made his fortune manual of factoring steam powered cars, which were known as Stanley steamers. Oh. But it's not the same thing. That can't be. I know. There's two different fucking Stanley steamers. One of them is a carpet cleaning company. And one... You know what I mean? Like, that's weird, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like... Do you think that the carpet cleaning company was like, here's a great reference from the cast that we'll make. And they're also like, it kind of works with us better, so fuck you. Yeah. A little... I don't know. Steam powered cars. So you had to fill it with water and then... Steam powered cars. Yeah. I guess so. And then it would burn your face if you got too close to certain parts of it. Freelin's wife, Flora, had overseen the design of the interior. It's just beautiful burgundy's and golds, wood panel. You know, you've seen the fucking shining. Yeah, yeah. Looks exactly.

1:10:40I don't even know if the shining wasn't filmed. And... No. Um... It says, Alie wrote, picture the interiors of the Titanic, but on land. And right, side up. Not at the bottom of the fucking... Every picture I see is upside fucking down, with moss, sick of it. Clean it up. I'm going to start an online campaign to clean the Titanic before it's raised. I don't want it raised. I just want someone to go wipe that moss off. Like, brought to you by scam. Stanley Seymour. Yes, we've got a new sponsor for this tour. Funnily enough, Stephen, and to have by the king, this family's had also been from Maine. Though they'd lived a long time outside of Boston. They moved to Colorado in 1903 after Freelin comes down with tuberculosis. It's the place to be. Yes, we have tuberculosis. It's the place to be if you have TV.

1:11:40Good job. Hey! That's a great jingle. Freelin makes some recovery. He's so excited about it that he builds his luxury hotel for his equally rich and sick friends to come and heal and hang out. Which sounds great. So, there is a tunnel carved into the hotel's foundation, which is carved into bedrock, which at some point was intended for hotel employees because, of course, it was. You guys go down there. No one wants to look at you at the job. There's nobody working here. And the hotel workers now say that when they are in the basement and they pass the tunnel, sometimes here now, people saying they're whispering their names. Fuck no. Jordan. No! Don't whisper my name. It's so creepy. Jordan. I like it. The hotel has 140 guest rooms in case you're planning a wedding there. And then, of course, there are lots of other spaces and several other buildings on the grounds.

1:12:44Hotel staff will tell you that every last room in the hotel is haunted, which is, like, great. Yeah. Did they put that on travel? I don't know. I mean, but then you could have, like, a haunted wedding if you wanted to. Everybody that's into it. That sounds cool. Hotel staff will tell you that. I don't know. That's not sincere. Hotel staff will tell you about strange occurrences that have been reported on every last square of the place, which let's fucking go. People have reported rocking chairs rocking with no one in them. Just get rid of the fucking rocking chair, right? Just floor on the floor. What if the chairs start rocking? Like, I'd rather have a rocking chair rocking. People have also reported weird lights where there shouldn't be shadows, sudden chills, and shocks. Sudden headaches. She seems like a gas leak. They should get that checked out. Unexplained music. Right? Stanley steamer. What was that?

1:13:44Oh, my God. Unexplained sense, which sounds awful. Explain that sense. That's my new game show. In the 1970s, before Stephen King stayed there, one maid reported going to a ballroom that should have been empty to clean it and saw it full of ghostly figures in ball gowns and tuxedo's dancing. Yes. Sounds like the haunted mansion. Yeah. Room 418 is said to be the hotel's most haunted room, and guests who have stayed there often report rattling windows. Which is like, yeah, it's wind. I mean, that's happening in my hotel room right now. I literally was like, is someone behind that curtain? No, it's just the wind. No, it's the wind. However, they also report the sound of Unexplained children running through the hallway outside. Ooh, children are ghost children. That was scary. Any child. And the sound. And the sound of a bouncing ball.

1:14:52You know, you know what a bucket. Why did I? You mean the sound, don't you? I just hear like a handball. Yeah, the big red one. Yeah, exactly. So I'm not going to go into all the stories, obviously, but let's start with room 217. So here's a photo of it in 1911. Ooh, pretend everywhere. Isn't it cool? What do you think it smells like? Explain that smell. Siggarets and mothballs, like my dress. Now, is that twin beds or one, like, queen with two separate headboards? I think it's two twins pushed together and are like, don't touch each other, though. That's the cause of all this haunting. Some prude is like, how do you? Also, they haven't figured out yet that the keto-happy marriage is the king size bed.

1:15:52Yeah, fuck's sake. I thought the keto-happy marriage was multiple headboards. Okay, so. So it's the most famous. It had once been part of a larger presidential suite. And many famous people have stayed there before. And after the kings, including Theodore Roosevelt, your best friend, the unsinkable Molly Brown. Yeah, she's in every story. She's truly in every story. That's right. So about 60 years before the kings stayed there in June of 1911, a big storm. Remember those rattling windows? Knocked out the electricity at the Stanley. And the hotel at this point had only been open for two years. But everything ran on electricity, which was like really highfalutin back then. However. What's the look of highfalutin back then? The jazz age. Turn the light on, see? Let's flip a switch. But also the lamps were designed to work with electricity or gas for when storms came.

1:16:52So during a storm, a chambermaid in her 50s named Elizabeth Wilson enters room 217 to light the gas lamp. Because the electricity went out. Unfortunately, for some reason, the gas had been on for a while. So she goes to fucking light a match. You guys know what happens next. Fireball. Huge explosion, taking off a chunk of the building's facade and blowing Elizabeth backwards and down through a hole that's been blasted in the floor of that fucking room. She fucking survives. No. Liz, badass. Which is like, if it's going to be a ghost story, that's not how it usually goes. Okay. She's haunted by that experience. She's like, I can't fucking believe that happened to me. And she breaks both ankles, poor thing. But she survives. And in fact, there are a few other injuries, but nobody dies in the accident. And Freeland Stanley, the hotel's owner, feels so bad for it. And of course, there's no like workers comp at the time.

1:17:53So he pays for all her medical bills, which is like shoving at the time. Required. Yeah, no. And has her recover in one of the guest rooms until she's fully healed. And she ends up having a long career at the Stanley Hotel and lives into her 90s, passing away in 1951. So now she can finally on that room. And interesting fun fact, she's the old lady in the bathtub from the movie, The Shining. Oh my god. That was my worst part of that movie. Yeah, that was good. Now, she good naturedly lots of the room, because she only broke two ankles, so she's not mad, I guess. Here's what she does. She, it gets her messy, and I've left her clothes lying around. And they come back to the room, they find all their clothes flung around in different places. She's like, pissed and makes it worse. Which sounds like you got shit face last night, and don't remember doing that. I do that. And you're in my bra over there. My undergarments.

1:18:53And then they say sheets move around while they're in bed, as if she's making the bed with them in it. Mom. You're a mom major bed. Get up. You know, that's how they get you up. Oh right. Just rip the cover off of you. Oh my god. Okay, people also say that when you try to take a picture of the room with a digital camera, and unexplained purple bar appears in the viewfinder, which is really creepy. And it happens near the love scene in the room. It's not as creepy as having a digital camera, though. Let's be honest. Get with it. It's vintage. Uh, Karen. Guess who are, like, neat and tidy report they returned to their room and found their clothes unpacked from their suitcases and put away. Thank you. Yeah. But like, that sounds like a turn down service. But no, they don't, they don't have that at this hotel. So no. I didn't know that you were supposed to use the drawers and hotel rooms. Oh my god. It's a never open. Do they even open? I mean, they do. And the only reason I know is because Adrian Cole Singham uses them.

1:19:53She unpacks and like moves in. I'm like, we're here for 48 hours. Yeah. That is like, that is a thing to know. Like, who are the people who live out of their suitcase? And who are the people who like move in and unpacks? It's two different types of people. Wow. And those two people meet and get married and hate each other. I don't know. Where was I? Unpacking. Okay. Okay. So there's rumors that this actually happened. The, you know, cleaning up the room to Steven and Tabitha King. But they've never talked about it anywhere. People say that in the bathroom, the faucets turn on and off by themselves. And you'll remember that in the bathroom. The bathroom in the shining is a big deal. And the Kubrick movement. What happened? I don't know. I don't know. There's just a lot. No, I like it. Keep going. Yeah. So they think it's all Elizabeth, like turning on and off the fucking shower and the thing. And she's like, ooh, running water, maybe. I don't know. She says, it sounds to me like Elizabeth has OCD.

1:20:54And she's like, can we just clean this up, please? Yeah. Can we just clean this room up? My ankles. Fuck. So then the staircase and the landing at the, in landings are of course haunted because those things get haunted. A lot. Several people who report the sightings of a ghost of a 14-year-old girl named Sarah, who apparently worked there as a nanny at some point in history. Author of the book, The History and Haunting of the Stanley Hotel, Rebecca Pittman, has written books about different haunted places. And she's even had her own hauntings occurred there. She says that when she was looking over the stairs railing, she felt the distinct sensation of something very cold pressing into her form. Like, someone was holding an ice cube there. Which is actually a trick when you have anxiety is to hold an ice cube. So maybe the ghost had anxiety. Ghost therapist. Yeah. Oh my god. It's so nice. Sorry Jennifer, love you at coming this fall. I love it. I'd watch that. So motion, holding a piece of ice on someone's arm.

1:21:58And also, Rebecca says she was taken on two guided ghost tours of the hotel by a woman who goes by the name Scary Mary. I bet she's fucking fun. Yeah. And claims she personally witnessed the appearance of two ghost children, prior on this tour. On two occasions, the children pressed their hands into Scary Mary's skirt, leaving little tiny child hand imprints. No, get the fuck out. And you can buy that skirt in the gift shop. Mary, like, Mary, like, did check it and made sure there was, I don't know, that sounds fun. And other people report seeing a Victorian era clothed woman on the stairs and then feeling lightheaded while walking up or down the stairs. Which again, gas leak sounds like. Yeah. Oh, here's a picture of a ghost at the Stanley Hotel. Oh. On the stairs. Yes, I see it. That's fucking scary. I mean. I don't love that. And that's a rug from tonight. I mean, I see what they see, but I don't.

1:23:01And I want to believe. I do. That's fucking scary. It kind of looks like, you know, they have those, like, those statues you can get at, like, home goods where it's a dog butler. It could be, I'm just saying it could be a dog butler. Does anyone know whether or not they decorate it from home goods there? It's all we're saying. It's like, you don't have to ask the hard questions. Yes. Right? And like, the pianos will play and then Rose Flora's favorite perfume, the wife of the guy who built it. They can smell it in the air. That's an explain smell. An explain smell? Yeah. They got its rose at least. They know the source of that one. Most people believe that Flora Stanley is also haunting the hotel and plays on the piano a lot of times. And during the 1970s, prior to the King's Day, the hotel had actually been looted several times because it had been abandoned. People drove up with moving trucks. I just fucking took things with stuff into the fucking, yeah.

1:24:02Jesus Christ. So they just, some, they abandoned it. One owner just was like, buy, I can't handle this place anymore. Yeah. But the owner at the time had actually gone through the effort of hiding the grand piano that was Flora's to protect it. And so they think she plays it as an appreciation for... It's a great way to say thank you, having a ghost play the piano for you all night. Nothing says thank you, haunting the fucking shit out of a boy. Thanks for making me scream again, Flora. Don't make the blood come out of the elevator, please. When the novel The Shining comes out in 1977, and when the film adaptation comes out in 1980, the Stanley and Joy's are Renaissance, having been obviously made extremely famous. And it turns out, Stephen King wasn't a huge fan of Stanley Kubrick's adaptation of his book. So in 1997, he wrote his own script for a mini-series that was much more faithful to the novel. And that series was shot in the actual hotel, because it was like, hey, you have a set.

1:25:03It's here. Let's do it. Did people like that series? I didn't. Did anyone see it? I don't know. There's a couple. Yay! I thought it was okay. And while shooting the crew of the movie in the Stanley Hotel, they stained the carpet in the lobby, and witnesses claimed that a portrait of Flora Stanley flew off the wall and landed right on the stain as if she was admonishing the crew. Like, people make up reasons why the things happen. Like, maybe she was just like, I want to lay on this. You know what I mean? I'm tired of being on the wall. What's going on down here? Oh, guess what else was shot at the Stanley Hotel? What? Guess. Oh, $200,000. No, that was me guessing money. Oh, I'll tell you. I shouldn't put you on the spot like that. Was it the world according to Garb? No, but a good guess. It was Dumb and Dumber.

1:26:03Oh. Oh. Yeah. To this day, fans of the shining in all its forms, as well as amateur and professional ghost hunters, like yourself, flock to the hotel to try to witness something paranormal, which lets after party, guys, at the Stanley Hotel. And a lot of people do still, I guess, put on travelosity that they see hauntings. Yes. And also the hotel throws an annual ball where many people dress up as characters from the shining. Ooh. Which happened at one of our live shows once. They dressed up as the twins. That's right. We had twins at a live show. That's right. And that's the story of a haunting of the Stanley Hotel. Amazing. That was great. Does that mean it's hometown time? It's hometown time. Okay. This time, we're going to tell the rules first. Unlike we did last night, we basically set up Katie and Cassandra to fail. Oh, there's fans.

1:27:03It's just me for the third fucking time. I come with news that baby Moth was not the only baby in the audience tonight. What? I saw a baby buying merch. What? Either that or the adult the baby was with. One of my, was buying a t-shirt. Oh, my God. You brought a baby with you. Thank you, baby. You sure cried podcast. That's great. Okay. I'm going to be right over there. Okay. This is going to be there. Thank you. Thank you. We have presents too. Okay. Okay. We're going to do the rules really quick. We are now asking if anybody here has a hometown. We recommend that you have a hometown from Denver or Colorado. We do not recommend that you do what Katie did and get slayed by the audience. It's really unpleasant for you. Um, also try to make it short. Don't bring notes. Do your thing. We believe in you. What's the last one? Don't be drunk. Oh. You can't be so drunk that you can't tell your own story.

1:28:05But you can be drunk. Yeah. And we have a present for you. Um, then tonight went to a pizza place last night and they had one of those cool, um, vending machines for a belt. The clothing? Yeah. And this one is called nostalgia kids meal toy. Oh. So I don't know what's in it. There's some cookies from the. Okay. Okay. All right. Who has a hometown? A long hometown. Okay. You with the light on you. Get up there. Yeah. Smart. That was a good idea. Yeah. If your friend is bold enough. Yeah. That way to Vince. Right over there. Oh, we forgot. One of the other rules was don't point at strangers. That happened a bunch of times. People are like, ask her. So the chick who lit her. If this is bad, this is on you. I'm not gonna get it. You're right. Um, anything can happen as it shows. It's not the magic of it. It's too late. She picks up one already. It's just sad. Oh, maybe. People just keep going like, but maybe if I do, if I wait five more times. Oh, sorry. I hate doing that.

1:29:05It feels awful. If I could pick all of you, I would. Okay. Here she comes. This is. I'm not going to listen to screaming. Okay. Oh, okay. Great. Hi. What's your name? Christina. Christina over here. Come here. She's a hot dog shirt on. Come over. I love it. Everybody, this is Christina. Be nice to her, please. Where are you from, Christina? I'm from Colorado Springs. Great. Great. We're off to a good start. What is your hometown? All right. So to start off, I'm a homicide prosecutor at the DA's office. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You did that. You did that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. You're right. Good. She went up. Christina. Yes. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Are you a fucking liar right now? No. Okay. Great. I just wanted to ask. Oh, my God. Okay. So the story I wanted to tell is my mom. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.

1:30:05Okay. So the story I wanted to tell is my first homicide trial. Fuck, yes. Okay. So the story is a woman named Elizabeth Kramer. Lizzie Kramer was found murdered. She was in a plastic tote box. And she had been thrown off the side of Gold Camp Road, if anyone's from Colorado Springs. She was laughing at the local reference. Yes. Because there are a lot of bodies that are found off Gold Camp. Oh. Really? Yes. Gold Camp Road, I'm covering that on the next show. And so she was actually found by three teenagers who were hiking. Ooh. And it was all caught on a Snapchat video. Oh, no. So she was found. And the suspect was obviously. Baby daddy. Baby daddy, but close enough. And so then during the investigation, we did computer searches. And he had been really smart and Googled how to get away with murder.

1:31:07Yes. I mean, who was on this? Yes. And so he was taken to trial in 2021 and convicted of first degree murder. And that was, that's what you did, right? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. One of my witnesses was one of the DNA and serology experts. And her name was Sherry Holtz. Oh. We met her. And during a break, I was like, oh, she was talking about how she was from California. I was like, do you know Paul Holtz? And she goes, that's my husband and I. So that's what I did in the middle of court. And it was a little embarrassing because then she told her husband. And then I met Paul later. Yeah. He was the one, oh, you're the one that embarrassed yourself in front of my wife. And anyway, he is in prison for the rest of his life. And the court of appeals have affirmed that conviction.

1:32:09Amazing. Amazing. That was a perfect hometown in every way. Oh, yeah, there's cookies. Oh, yeah. Christine, everybody. Amazing. What's his name? Yeah, we're not beating up. Amazing. Wow. You guys. Yeah, I think number two. You fucking did it. Denver. It was such an honor to start this tour after six years in this city with you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. You really showed up. We fucking love it here. We appreciate you guys so much for coming. And being here. Are you queuing me? Stay sexy. And don't. Face Denver. Thank you all. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

1:33:17This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Leonis Koalachi. Our researchers are Mary Maglachin and Ali Oken. Email your hometowns to my favorite murder at gmail.com And follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And now you can watch my favorite murder on Netflix. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye!

1:34:18That ugly red couch you've had for a decade? It's been living with you way longer than you ever thought it would. Because let's face it, great quality furniture just feels out of reach. Or it used to. Until you found home sense. The days of overpaying for good taste are done. Now, you can fill your home with the standout pieces you've coveted but couldn't afford. And you can finally kick that sad sofa straight to the curb. Welcome to home sense. The home of no compromise. This episode is brought to you in part by Vital Farms. Have you noticed that the egg section at the grocery store has gotten very complicated lately? But Vital Farms makes it simple. Pasture raised eggs traceable to the farm. Their hands have an outdoor access year round with fresh air and sunshine and forge on rotated pastures with local grasses. Every carton can be traced back to the farm it came from so you can see the pasture where the hands live by visiting VitalFarms.com slash farm. Look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit VitalFarms.com to learn more.

1:35:21Vital Farms, good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.