1 Christian vs 5 Muslims (HEATED DEBATE) | DSH #2128

0:00It's objectively wrong in all cultures and all times and all places of consummated marriage to a Nile. That's evil. There's no excuse for it. It was wrong. And over 200 of your odd eat sources. And some people's eyes, Hitler was evil. Some people's eyes. He was a patriot, right? Ironic that you spend the past couple of weeks quarrying about Muslims trying to get you, but here you are. Having a conversation about Muslims. You're not afraid that one of us may... All right. You brought them made this personal. Name me one Muslim that you know, famous Muslim, that has married a nine-year-old girl. That has nothing to do with the topic. It has everything to do with the topic. Courtney, you can marry an sex with a girl who is not menstruated. All right, guys. We are here without number one versus five. Today, our host is Michael Jones versus five. Michael, if you could read the first prompt to the camera. Yeah. Yeah. My first prompt is Islam promotes child marriage.

1:04Would you like me to explain why I think that? Yeah, absolutely. All right. So I give two reasons. Generally, the first one is that the Haditha Muhammad married Aisha when she was six, consummated when she was nine. Pretty bad. The problem is the Quran goes further. It's Surah 3321. It says Muhammad is the pattern of conduct. So obviously, what he does is okay for Muslims unless the Quran specifies otherwise. That's not even the hardest part. The worst part is Surah 654, which talks about divorcing women. It includes, according to all the tough seers, it includes pre-pubescent girls, girls who have not menstruated yet. So they even have an Ida. So because of that, you can marry and divorce pre-pubescent girls. And so because of that, Islam is promoting an allowing child marriage. Okay. Great. So what I really believe and think, you're going to study yourself right into the path of Islam. All right. Let's say if Islam is true, I hope it happens. Secondly is this. So what you are saying is absolutely correct. Because when you deal with Islam,

2:06it goes back further than Muhammad. Muhammad is the last of it. The beginning of it is a domalaisalam. So when you deal with Rebecca, Mary and Malaisalam, the countless sisters who got married at the time of like childhood. So this is in your book as well. So in the Bible, you mean? Absolutely. Okay. If you show me in the Bible where it says Mary was, or I'm sorry, it was Rebecca. She was 12. All right. Show me the Bible where it says Mary's 12. Rebecca was 9 and Mary was 12. Show me in the Bible. Chapter. Chapter in verse. I don't need to keep going. Yeah. It's not in there. It's not in there. They can watch. No, it's false. It's completely not in there. No. This comes from later rabbinic sources like Rashi who claimed that Rebecca was three. So that's false. It's not in my Bible. And he actually miscalculated a lot of stuff wrong. No, Mary doesn't mention Mary's age Bible. What? Who wrote the Bible? Who wrote many different authors? So we're going to go off with many different people. Say, if you're that's not the problem. The problem is about Islam promoting child marriage. Right. And so we can't deflect the Bible. So let me explain to you about Islam. Islam don't promote

3:08anything. It doesn't. We don't we don't put any money towards promotion. Like towel. He does it promote towel. He'd we don't promote any. You don't promote towel. He didn't. Islam. We don't promote. You don't promote Mohammed in Islam. We don't promote. No, Islam. We don't do any. You promote Islam in Islam. Islam don't need that. Okay. So you don't promote anything. Islam is no is no need to promote anything. So so Islam is basically a blank slate according to you. No, it's not. If you know it, if you know it, then you're a part of it, then it is, then you will be. But we don't spend any money promoting promoting means to spend something towards promoting something, marketing something like there's no carons in every hotel in America. So I think we're equivocating. But there's Bibles. I think we're equivocating on something. Yeah. You're talking about what Muslims promote. I'm talking about what the tenants of the religion of Islam. But the the tenants of the religion does Mohammed Sada-Lahu, they was the lamb is the last of it. He's the final of it. The seal of it. Islam still is back further than the first man being created. You have to study deeper. Okay. So here's my first question for you though. Okay. Okay. Do you do you accept the soon?

4:12Yeah. I followed a ways of all the prophets. So you said the Hadith. You could see but my beard and my crown. I see. It's a very nice beard. It's very well trimmed. I like it. So you look very snappy today. So you agree with like Sahih Al-Bakari 51 34 that says Mohammed married Aja. But the sixth consummate when she was not. Yeah. So when you speak under the numbers. I'm glad you brought that up. So when you speak under the numbers, you have to study history. You can't study what you said in your book from many different authors. Oh, yeah. Don't worry. It's not 100 authors with the crown. It's only one. I'm talking about the Hadith. Hadith? Yes. Bukkari was from where? Okay. Bukkari is like 250. Where is he from? Where's he from? I don't know exactly now. But that's irrelevant to the point. He looks like you. He's a white guy. He looks like you. Yeah. Okay. Great. He's from Russia. Anyway, back to the main point. Let's start getting distracted here. Okay. So you would agree Mohammed consummate an marriage with a nine year old. No. But that's what the Hadith says. And you say because the Hadith stays nine. But you have to go and look at the history. So in the in the

5:14numeric numbers of air big nine is 19. Okay. What Hadith says that? So in example, when they took the first, he's rocks, right? Aisha sister, who was only like seven years older than her. At that time, she was 27. Okay. What had they got married at this time? That would mean indicate that Aisha was roughly around 19, 20 years old. Okay. So what Hadith teaches this? What toughs? We don't we don't know commentator says this is a made up modern interpretation. This is innovation. That's crazy. You mentioned innovation because that's the same view I have of the entire existence of what you're speaking on. You just said yourself. There's many authors to your book. So how can you stand on something that be true with a hundred different authors? We're not talking about the Bible. We're talking about what the Quran and the Hadith promote in the one author for the Quran. So that's great. That's great. You mentioned that too. So where in the Quran does it state that Muhammad, Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, married an ayah? It doesn't say in

6:18the Quran. I said exactly. Okay. So what do we what do we talk about? The Quran say that he's the pattern of conduct. The Quran does the Quran is the only thing that we stand by. Does it say he's the pattern? Hadiths get twisted just like the Bible with twisted a hundred different ways. So the Hadith would be basically will break down to be like your Bible. Does the Hadith excuse me does the Quran, so you were 3321 say he's the pattern of conduct. What is that? What are you implicating? Did Muhammad is your pattern of conduct? You know, we should be in the likes of every prophet. Okay. Does do you want me to pull it up and read it? If you need to, I don't need to pull it up. Okay. So it's right here. So in 321 says Muhammad is an excellent more example or your pattern of conduct depending what translation you go on. Do you agree with that? Yes or no? Absolutely. We follow. We follow that. But where in the Quran does it state that Muhammad saw the lahu alayhi wa sallam married an ayah? I don't need to show it's necessarily in the Quran. I agree. This is it. This is stem through Hadiths meaning that hadiths. Let me break this down for you.

7:19Okay. The Quran. Okay. Respond in a Quran. Absolutely. The Quran is a direct revelation from a lot. God and English. A direct revelation from God. Hadiths, these breakdowns are saying basically like I heard that someone saw someone so do this. That's not accurate. Meaning that in between those three parties, four parties, five parties, 100 parties as you mentioned in your book. That name and word and numbers can get twisted up a million different ways. But let's go. Hold on. Let me continue. But the whole thing is that you're talking about child marriages where right here in this state, right here in this country, a man can go to Mary and 12 year old at the consent of his parents. So in hindsight, when I'm asking you, what is the difference? Okay. So what about us? Is not dealing with the actual topic we're dealing with here? Okay. So you said, hold up. So that has nothing. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. My turn now. Absolutely. Go ahead. What about us? Is not dealing with

8:21the topic. We're talking about what Islam promotes. You agreed you accept the sooner. And then you started saying that some of the Dees are twisted around. No. The Hadiths say she was nine when the marriage was consummated. You said that was 90. I asked for a source and you deflected. So where's the evidence? She was 19. Okay. So the evidence is again, if you're going to study the Hadiths, continue to study them because it's in the same, it's in the same book that you're mentioning. Bukhari is not a book that we stand on. It is like reference to what we stand on. The Quran is what we stand on. So we don't know to the meaning that meaning that if we have an issue, if we have an issue in Islam, correct, hold on. If we have an issue in Islam, right? The first basis of law is the crime. Meaning I give an example. This brother has tattoos and this brother don't or this brother eats shrimps and this brother's don't. This brother drinks liquor and this brother don't. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, wait, hold on. Okay. You think you can drink alcohol in Islam? Listen, because it was a time and place in Islam where it was permissible to drink. I just curious,

9:25do you think you could drink alcohol now? It was a time and place where it was permissible to drink. But now is it permissible? No, no, no, no, it's not because the harm has outweighed the benefit. Okay. You see what I'm saying? Okay. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, the Hadith is what you're saying. No, you can only trust the word of a law. Okay. So let's just go on the Quran. Okay. So how can you trust? How can you trust what you're what you're speaking on? What you said is a hundred authors. Okay. Stop talking about your book. We're not doing what that's. You're going around that. You're going around that. We can talk about Muhammad in the Bible. We're going to get there. Right now we're talking about child marriage. Right. Where do we promote that? Suhris 65. We're in these times or those times that we have banners and and marking and say, yeah, let's get married to children. Where do we promote this? In the Quran, not for all people, no time. It's not in the Quran. I just is the Quran in your Bible is in your Bible for all people in all times. The Quran is for all people. Okay. So Suhris 65.4 says you can marry a divorce a girl who has not menstruated. Okay. So that includes pre-pubescent girls according to the

10:25period. You can marry and divorce. The poverty. All of your commentators say this. Yeah. So you say you can marry and divorce a girl who has not had her message. Why don't we diverse here? Go ahead. Go ahead. Let's pull it up because I think this is important to just get this on the record here. That verse you pulling up, we can recite that to you right now. Me and these fire brothers. We don't need the phone. The phone is created by who? Okay. Well, people, as for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months and those who have not menstruated as well and those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery. So whoever is mindful of a law, he will make their matters easy for them. So it includes pre-pubescent girls, girls who have not menstruated. Now let me break this down. So what that is saying is this so that if a couple, if a man is married to a woman, and he decides to lock her, meaning to divorce her, he has to wait four months. You know, 120 days. No, 120 days, 120 days. Just in case she would become pregnant. If she was pregnant,

11:26he had to take care of her as if she was still his wife for four months, 120 days. You're just saying three months. That's from Google, brother. I'm telling you what's coming out of the words directly from a law. Okay. Now what if she is not, what if she has a menstruated? If she has a menstruation period. If she has a menstruated, so you had arranged marriages. So in example, I'm the family of, we'll just say John, you're the family of Matthew. So me and you, we developed a strong relationship. So I say to you, my first C is going to marry your C. You see what I'm saying? So we've already arranged the marriage to keep the money and the legacy within the families. You can arrange. Can you marry that girl before the age of age? You can arrange the marriage. It doesn't say a range. But you're reading from Google. I'm reading the, I'm reading the translation. You see the Arabic on top. I see it. Yeah. The Arabic cannot even be broken down in a lot of terms in English. So we can't understand unless we read the Arabic.

12:29You have to learn it. That's the, that's the difference in which you're propagating and what I'm standing on. So is this really a religion? You have to, people or is it just for me to speak Arabic? Because you have to study. You have to learn this. You can't just wake up and say, I'm Muslim. If a person tell me they're Muslim, I'm going to know your Muslim based off your conduct, based off your Salat, based off your Tahada, your, your purification. You see what I'm saying? Do I need to pull up the series? You can tell me you're Christian. I'm like, okay, you're Christian. Because guess what? You can do what you want to do and, and that be that. Okay. Anyone can be that you have to learn this. Do I need to pull up the tough series? You can pull up top series. So top series is a third generation of, of the word. And you're what generation? We've standing on the first. But no, no, you specifically. They're also standing on the first. Yeah, we're standing up. We stand on the Quran. That's the first, that's the first one. What does the Quran say in 06504 is the waiting period for girls who've not menstruated? You just spoke it. Yes, three months. So that includes that means that means on a arranged marriage, you have to, you have to understand that the words don't break down the same.

13:32What is it? Do you know what the it is? Yeah. What is it? Go ahead. What is it? No, you're telling me you're preaching today. I asked you a question. I'm just, I'm just responding. It is the waiting period. Okay. Okay. How long is that? The waiting period if you've not consummated the marriage. How long is it? It's three months according to 06504. Three months. Yeah. Okay. Can you have an itta if you've not consummated the marriage? Do you have to understand an arranged marriage? Answer the question. An arranged marriage. Can you have an itta if you've not consummated the marriage? No, an arranged marriage. Thank you. An arranged marriage versus a marriage. So again, you have to understand the times, know the history during these times. If, when Islam was coming to the, coming to the forms where at these given times, they had 360 something idols that they worshiped. So there's nothing. If this person, if the people in this room and we, the only people in the whole city that believes in the oneness, the oneness of God, meaning that to secure this legacy, my first son is going to marry your first child. Okay. This is already arranged, meaning that two years

14:37old, 12 years old, 20 years old, when the time comes, they'll get married. Okay. So again, this is talking about marriage. I just want to know, I just want to know one thing. Where are we promoting this at? I'm showing you. I have not seen one promotion. That's not monologue. Where are they promoting? I haven't seen one thing where it's my turn. Okay. Come to Islam where you can marry a child. I let you monologue on something that was irrelevant to the prompt. I'm now going to talk about the actual prompt. Okay. Once again, Suhris 654 allows for an itta, the waiting period when you can divorce and remarry a girl. Yeah. It includes women who are past the age of menstruation. It includes women that are pregnant and it includes girls who've not menstruated. Okay. That is pre-pubescent girls included in that category. Therefore, Islam allows and promotes child marriage. Suhris 654. Oh my god. Listen, you keep breaking it. What I'd like to do is I like that at this point. You two minutes to the final state. Okay. Sounds good. I'll be saying and then you two, sir. Okay.

15:40After he's done. Go ahead. Yeah. No, it's, uh, I mean, like I said, you got arranged marriages and then you have a marriage. You have, you have what is the Koran. You mentioned Hadees. You mentioned top seers. The top seer, our top seer, let me break this down. Our top seer is more authentic than the Bible that you propagate out of. And that and the top seers coming from a source of a direct source of a source. And that's still more authentic than what, than what you're propagating. You understand what I'm saying? So we live by the Koran. You mentioned 64. You got to understand. You're reading the Koran without no will do. Meaning the only partner you have with you is say time. So the dialect that you're receiving is solely from the gen. You have to be in the state of purification before you even touch the book and reading it through a phone. You have nothing. It's only, it's only English anyone who knows Arabic and read Arabic and write Arabic like myself.

16:41You cannot break down 70% of the words into English format. All right. Well, I appreciate the conversation. Definitely. Definitely. Including with logical fallacies isn't going to response. Like, you know, what about you? Absolutely. Hold up. Let me finish. This is my turn now. Okay. I'll go. I'll go. Like two quakei ad hominins saying I'm talking about I don't have the spirit that needs. That's just, that's just logical fallacies. Let me just read the top seer of Jell-O-Layne. He says, and also those who have not yet menstruated because of their young age, their period shall also be three months. Your own scholars agree with me. This is allowing and promoting child marriage. This is evil. This is one of the reasons I reject Islam. And until this can get sorted out, I won't even consider this religion among many other reasons, which I hope we can get to throughout this conversation. Absolutely. Can I, is this my turn to close on? I get 20 seconds to final statement. So I'm going to make do off of you because I know I can see it in your eyes and in your heart. You're going to be a Muslim one day because you studying, you searching for the truth,

17:44you lost and you looking for it. And right now you're just trying to find anything and everything to try to go against it. But you can't go against the truth. The truth don't need no defense. It's the truth. I agree with you. One thing I'm not going to go against the truth. But there's no promotion at all. We don't promote anything of that nature. You know me. It's a pleasure, man. Pleasure. Absolutely. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Which whichever, whichever gentleman wants to go first on the first prompt, which is Islam promotes child marriage. What's your name? Hussain. Nice to meet you. To you, email my son. What? Just joking. Make sure you gotta be close to the mic. It's gotta be a couple of inches away. God, Jesus. Can you hear me now? It's so great. Yep. All right. So go for it, guys. You can go first. All right. Yeah. Islam promotes child marriage because Bahamut consummated a marriage to a nine year old and it's the Quran in sewer 33 says he's the pattern of conduct. And then in sewer 654, it allows you to marry in divorce preview, messing girls. So they're promoting it. Gotcha. So first and foremost, you saying that

18:48Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah be upon him is the example, the perfect example. So you do understand that there are numerous occasions where Prophet Muhammad peace be upon has told his followers, his companions that he is only a human being and unless it's revelation that they don't have to follow him. For instance, the battle of the trench where you had people, you familiar with that? Yeah. They're only going to deal with my point, though. Okay. So well, it proves my point. How? Because he didn't go with what he was saying. Same thing with the battle of body. Prophet Muhammad ordered the army to stop at a certain point. And one of the companions asked him is is a loss of panellat to Allah telling you to stop right here. And he said, no, he said, well, let's go up further. We can stop them where we have access to water and the enemy won't have access to water. So he went with the he went with the wisdom of a human being

19:50and told him, I to him only a human being unless it's revelation, it's not mandatory. You don't have to follow what I'm saying. Right. So I've never the prompt is not child marriages mandatory. The prompt is that it promotes it. But so you're but you're in your in your argument. I've said here, I'm the last person to go and you just said it again to me. So this is the fifth time that you are stating that because Prophet Muhammad, Salah, law, lay, wa salam is reported to be in the Quran, the Uswah Hassanah, the best example. Then we follow him in all things and I'm telling you that's incorrect. So I've said earlier though throughout this conversations, that doesn't mean you have to do everything. I've never said, hold on, I've never said the Quran is demanding child marriage. It's saying you have to engage in it. It's promoting it as a path. That's what sewer 654 is clearly allowing. So you also spoke about, I've heard you talked, we

20:50talked about progression and you tried to attribute this progression to Muslims being in the West. Name one one famous Muslim who's also followed in that in that pathway since your saying is promoting because if you're saying and I see your face, but to me, you're basically you're talking about semantics when you're giving your own very narrow. Let's not play games. We know what promoting means promoting drugs, promoting sex, promoting alcohol, promoting certain type of music. We know what promoting is. So name me one Muslim that you know famous Muslim that has married a nine-year-old girl. That has nothing to do with the topic. That has everything to do with the top. You said you said Islam promotes child name a Muslim who's married a child. By your logic, I mean like you can say, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. Can you name me one Muslim that has given as much

21:51to charity as Muhammad has? Stop it. Oh, you can't. Okay, so I guess that means you know. Well, you're not going to give me with that. Yeah, it's just did. Answer the question. It's a double answer. You told everybody else, you've demanded that they answer your question. Name me one Muslim. Who has married one modern day Muslim who is married a nine-year-old child? I don't know any. I didn't think you did. Okay, so how does that deal with my point? So, so but no, because you're saying this is why and correct, please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm also not, I'm also not perfect. I'm an only a human being and I may have heard you wrong. But tell me that you said this is the reason why you will never embrace Islam. It's one of the reasons. One of the reasons. Yes, I'm sure there's many reasons. Oh, they're we're going to get to them. You bet. Okay, well, so I'm asking you the modern day Muslims. Did you ever have Muhammad Ali poster up growing up? No, I had a Michael Jordan up. Oh, Michael Jordan? Yeah, my same initials. So, yeah, it meant a lot to me. Yeah, you never

22:54like you never liked Muhammad Ali. I wasn't into boxing now. Okay, no, I got Jordan all the way. Okay, okay, got you. I hear you tell me. So with less some really my I don't even see why I should go any further because there's no promotion. Okay, and I mean, if you said it was, it's unsuccessful. So let me ask you some questions. Did Muhammad consummate a marriage to a nine year old? I wasn't there. Do you think he did? I have no idea. Does the Hadith say he did. Yes, the Hadith does say he does. The Hadith authentic. There's an authentic chain. Okay, so it's an authentic chain that he did. Okay, I also let me say this that he did not live because I heard you say something about something about taking care of marriage and taking care and not abusing. And he didn't she didn't live with him according to the high deep. She didn't live with him for three years after the marriage. Okay,

23:57back to the point then. Okay, so talking about Muhammad. Okay, is is he an excellent moral example for humanity? Absolutely. All right, well, there's the debate. Thank you. So he did he consummate a marriage to a nine year old. He's an excellent moral example. Therefore, Islam is promoting child marriage. No, no, we can't because you said you were good. I'm done too. But you don't get to you kept me going though. So since you kept me going, we still going. You know what that's a lie. You're coming back. So let me tell you this answer the answer. The only thing you don't get to say to fight over and then slap me and then say, but you said to fight. But you said, no, not over. It's on you said you said you were done. You said you were done. I said, I'm done. Let me ask you some questions. And then you answered them and gave me the name. So no, again, when it's done, we can like we can agree as gentlemen, because one of the things Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and said that he's come to teach good moral conduct and good manners. Okay, so I want to I want to exemplify that as examples. Yeah, does he teach through his actions? Absolutely. Okay, then there you just once again, agreed Islam is promoting child marriage because he consummated the marriage to a nine year old. And every time you hit me, I'm going to hit back. All right, now

25:00why tell me explain to me why an adult. So I'm not going to regurgitate the arguments that you already had because I think you feel like you're strong there. Thank you again. Well, I said, you think that you're strong there doesn't necessarily mean that you're strong. It should be easy to refute me if I'm not well again, you know, again, I'm do you want to floor? I already have it, man. I'm waiting for you to come up. You keep interrupting. I see that's a tactic that you have. You interrupt. So you make sure that people's choppy and you're the only one that's flowing. But when other people try to talk you interrupt, so it's choppy when he was up here, I let him talk for a while when he was up there. I'm talking for a while. I don't need interrupt man. I didn't interrupt you just now. You don't mean to or you're not interrupting me. I interrupt when it's necessary, but most of the time I want to get you get your point out. God, you're going on a monologue. Yes, I'm going to interrupt you, you know, was I going on a model? No, no, that's not interrupting you. You go ahead. Got you. So, uh, do you think, do you think it's more moral to marry a young girl

26:08or to molest her and rape her and hide it? Because there's a lot of rape in the Catholic church. It's a lot of rape in the United States. Yeah, that's evil. It's evil. Yeah. Yeah, rape is always evil. Yeah. Rapist's all molestation is evil. Yeah. Has he made you a apostasy from Christianity? No, because it doesn't teach that. Where does it teach that? So, but guess what? Where does the Bible teach to molest girls? So this is what I heard you say. This is what I heard you say. I heard you say that it was a good thing to promote a celibacy. Yeah, the Bible says that celibacy is a good thing. Yes. You don't think that has anything to do with this molestation in these perverted actions? No. There's no evidence it does. What do you mean? There's no evidence. There's a scholar named Anna Seltor. She wrote a book called Predators. Oh, no, let me finish. I just let you go. Excuse me. Go ahead. Go ahead. The reason why this is happening is because predators seek out positions like school teachers,

27:10daycare workers, or priests, where they get close to children. It's not Christianly promoting this stuff. It's predators seeking positions where they get close to children. So there's nothing in Christian. In fact, you're more likely, God forbid, but children are more likely to get molested in schools than they are at a church. The research has shown that. So yes, it's wrong. It's evil. When it happens, we can demit. They should be thrown in prison. The key should be thrown away. Absolutely. The Christianity does not teach that Islam does. Islam allows you to contribute to a nine year old again. So why is it child molestation prevalent in Islam? Because it's legal. No. Yes, you allow it. In Iraq. So you're saying it's happening. It's not being the minimum age for marriage in Iraq for us. She has, for example, again, I'm not she. I don't don't know. It's nine. So listen, let me say this. Therefore that molesting children's legal there. Okay. Can I, can I refute or have a rebuttal to what you just said? We can attempt. Hey, so first of all, you just referenced, you just referenced a woman like, and I'm,

28:12I'm, I'm a void, anything. And so you just referenced a woman in regards to men and young girls. Like so you're going to go with a woman's opinion. Men, when we're talking about celibacy, do you understand that it's your nature? See, we have what you call the fitra. And so it's a man's nature to want to have sex. We're having a conversation right now. Are you married? Yeah. Even though we're having a conversation right now and you're engaged in this heated debate, if your wife walked up behind you, and what's your first name? Mike. If your wife walked up behind you and said, Mike, come back here in this bedroom to hell with what he's talking about. Come back here. I need you to come beat this up. I need you to come take care of your business. I'm horny. You're going to read. Yeah. Listen, are you, are you not a human being? You're going, you're, you're more than likely. Your physical is going to respond. You might get any reaction right now.

29:13Listen, because your wife is whispering in your ear, you have a natural inclination to be attracted when most of us do to the opposite sex, to the opposite sex, unless something is happened to you dramatically and your wired differently. This has gone in a weird direction. But let me, it's not because we're really left the problem. We sure have. Well, well, that, and that's your opinion because we're talking about, we're talking about why he, first of all, he opened the door talking about how great Christianity is because it promotes celibacy. But I'm telling you, that the celibacy promotion is unnatural and it's why y'all raping little girls, and they having molestin little girls and little boys. Oh my goodness. Okay. So there's no study that shows that in second of all. You need a study. Listen, for everything. Yeah, that's how science works. How science? What about your common sense? Yeah. I have common sense too. It's just a science.

30:14Good. Great. Listen, let me explain something to you. In Christianity, the natural man has died and now the spirit lives in us. I'm not going to go out of the room because I'm here preaching the gospel and showing the evils of Islam because I want to pull as many people out as I, as I can't out of this false religion. So I'm going to keep talking here. I'm going to keep doing what Christ is commanding me to do because the Holy Spirit has told me to go forth and make disciples of all nations. So I'm going to keep doing this kind of stuff. Unlike you and Christianity, we're not slaves to our natural desires. We've been given this Holy Spirit and we've been made into new man. We have, the old man has been crucified with Christ and we are now made alive with him. So slaves to our natural desires. Do you fast? Of course. Every Easter vigil, every Ash Wednesday. Don't bring up Easter. We definitely don't want to go down that. You don't know who I am. Yeah. You don't know who I am. I'm sure you've, I'm sure you have some sort of armor, but don't let's, I'm not even going to, I'm not even going to go down that path of peace to nine year old girls. We already did that. Okay. Let's talk about the prop. The prop is child marriage. Does Islam allow marriage to in consummation the nine

31:17year old girls? No. It doesn't. So what Muhammad did was evil. No. Okay. Then it does. You're contradicting yourself. So, so does Christianity allow incest? Do you get to sleep with your daughters? No. Like you accused a lot of doing or ecclesiology outlaws that. But, but y'all accused a lot of doing that lot wasn't a property is a bad person. Oh, he was not a pro. That's interesting. I've never heard that. Lot is not a profit in Islam. He's a, he's a immoral example. You speaking on behalf of Islam? Or you, or you misspoke? Yeah. I'm in Christianity. In Christianity. Excuse me. Excuse me from a speaking in Christianity. In Christianity. Lot is not a thing. But go ahead though. Allie. Allie. You, but you didn't. You didn't. It's bright commercial over here, baby. It's bright commercial. But let's go. Christianity. Islam is not, excuse me. Lot. Is you following a lot? Was you all right? Man. Are we gonna, are we gonna answer your question? My bad. Man. It's not a profit in Christianity. No. He's not. No. What about, hold on. What about

32:20David? David. He's be a problem. Yeah. He's be a problem. So he actually saw a man's wife wanted her, took her and slept with her and had her husband killed. Yeah. It was evil. Man. Yeah. So your profits commit evil acts. Yeah. Interesting. Except Jesus. None of, none of them, no profit in Islam has committed an evil act. Yeah. Yeah. The other has. Muhammad. He consummate it in marriage. 29. No. That was evil. No. Yeah. It was evil. And did he do it? No. He did not come to the Hadith. So he legally married Aisha, one of his best friends. And here's the thing. Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of the law be upon him was Ella mean. So I'm sure you already know what that means, right? Because I don't remember. Tell my head. No. Okay. So that, you know, I studied it, but I don't remember. That means before he received revelation at 40. He was a trustworthy. There you go. There you go. See how I jog you. Remember now you, you dunk that one. I give you that. I jogged. I threw you to alley. You dunked

33:21it. Fair enough. Yeah. Okay. But hold on. Don't cover me. It doesn't change anything about child marriage though. It does because you're talking about if, if I'm profit my homie, just for one example, I'm not profit my homie, peace and blessings of the law be upon him. And this is my good friend, one of my best friends, Abu Bakr, Sadiq, Radi Alah, who I'm who may a lot be pleased with him. And my best friend, trust me to marry his daughter. That says a lot about my character, no matter what you say. So you're according to you, if you're a really, really good person, you can consummate a marriage to a nine year old. Again, I don't want to get into the whole modern day Islamic scholars are asking more questions. Again, I was not there. You're asking me to speak as if I was there. You spoke. You, I'm not you. You, you, you can dim lot. Okay. You said like, did that? Yeah. I was bad. Yeah. Let me ask a question. Did he consummate?

34:25So I'm saying it's possible that it's possible that they lied on lot. Okay. Anyway, back to my homie. It's possible that they got the numbers wrong. Okay. So we can't trust a Hadith. What about suicide or again? So here's the thing in Islam, in Islam. And I understand you, we're talking about the Dean in Islam. There's a verse that talks about following the basic and fundamental teachings of Islam, basic fundamental teachings of scripture, of revelation. And those who follow the the allegorical things like those. I hear you. I'm getting to that. You just got to be a little patient. Does Christianity teach patients? Yeah. Yeah. You're monologuing. I want to say, I'm limited time. I want to get to the topic. We are, yeah, we're going, we're almost done. Okay. My point is is that if you're not, if you're not open minded, and I see why you do this too, because you throw people, that's a good tactic too, because you throw people off with that and you make them lose their

35:27train of thought. But it's all good. Thanks for saying I'm good at debating. I appreciate that. I hear you. I hear you. Well, I don't know if you, I don't think a moderator allows you to just interrupt. I'm a star. My race seems to have been pretty cool so far. He has, but I've seen you, you, one thing that I'm like, this is my first debate. No problem. I know I am. I had you rattled a couple of times, but one of the things that I do see is you, when you're being interrupted, you do turn to the moderator and you utilize that. Well, learn from learn from the best. Absolutely. I give you that. I give credit. Yeah. Same way I caught you on the Sprite commercial. I gave, I called, I gave you credit, gave you credit when you dumped it. My point is is that I'm not going to get into the allegorical things and things that I have. They, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether I'm going to be a good Muslim or not. It's not guidance. You, you've actually fixated on some things that aren't necessarily guidance. The Quran is not a history book. Valley

36:27khaki tabo raba fi hud al-Lilmuta in that is the book and in and in is guidance for those. Yeah, that is it's go to go go. So good. So good. It's. It does give guidance on marriage. Absolutely. Okay. What is the guidance in series 654? Well, we don't follow, we don't follow just one part of the book. I know. Where does it? Where does it? We follow the whole of the book. So show me one place in the Quran. It says you so wait until you're all this. So here I like the you sat here and said 18 is the legal marriage and marrying age in the United States. That's not even true. My my colleagues, my brothers, my Muslim brothers. Yeah, good because let me, let me see. Yeah, you got 16 year olds in certain states. Some states don't even have in fact, in good

37:31know, I'm from California. California has no age, but you do have to go through a process. You have to go to court and you have to get parents consent and all this other stuff, but they don't have a this they don't have a defined age, but there is no across the board. United States age 18. That's false. Yeah, that's false. Fact check it. There is no across the board legal age in the United States. The strong man in position. So just yeah, you're strong manning my position. I never said there was. It's saying some some said it hired a general hire. Yeah, never said it was. Some some are lower. Let me let me clarify. I said it should be. Oh, okay, I missed that. Yeah, my apologies. I thought I heard it standing ten toes down on 18. No, I said any time it's happening before 18. That's moral. It's immoral and evil. Even. Oh, I got you. Okay, my apologies,

38:32then. As far as as far as enclosing as far as your reasoning, I would love to hear more in regards to why you wouldn't become Muslim when Muslim really is Muslims really uphold Islam because Muslims aren't perfect. Islam is perfect. Really holds to the tenants that we all preach one thing that we have in common in common is scripture and the word of God. It's pretty much just how we follow. And you said that you also said that you follow Jesus peace be upon him and in all the good things that he do. He does. So do you pray like us? Because Jesus peace be upon him and the Bible said he prays the way to Muslim spread. How did he pray? Face down prostrate on the ground. Saying what? Face down. Do you pray like that? Yeah, I pray like Jesus. I say my father. No. So you you were just ten toes down on me in regards to actions. Do you go through the physical

39:38actions that Jesus did when it describes how he was praying? According to him. He feels prostrate with his face down on the ground. According to John 7th, he wanted to lift his face to heaven and pray and I do that. Yes. That's do. Great. So okay, fine. But you don't fall face down. Do you say my father? No. Okay, then you don't pray like Jesus did. Great. Do you do you? Well, I fall face down with my face prostrate on the ground like he does. You don't you don't pray like Jesus did. Why doesn't matter? Because he said my father. Do you know that? Yes, it's in the Bible. The source is you're quoting. How do you know Jesus pray with his face down? Is it in the Bible? I'm asking you. It's only in the Bible. No. Yeah. I'm telling you so no, it's not only in the Bible. Show me in the Cromer Jesus pray with his face down. All prophets pray like that. Where? Where's it say that? Man, I'll throw it. Show me the verse. Show me the verse. So listen, so bottom line is though is that's one part of the that's one part of the way Jesus did things that you don't you don't follow. Okay, back to the child marriage thing. Can you answer my

40:42question? We're talking about church. We're talking about child marriage. Okay, okay, once again, thank you. Get so many. Get so many. However, the blanket claim that he always prayed face down is not supported. The claim is true, brought in misleading. I think it's basically saying meat in the middle. Sometimes he did it the way you said it and sometimes he did it the way he did it. So let's just get back to the problem because this is so so off topic. There is no there there's nothing here that refused my point when you get it. Muhammad's the pattern of conduct. He consummate the marriage to a nine year old. Then it islamas promoting child marriage and surah 654 says you can do that.

41:43This is this is evil islam promotes child marriage and in the surah says it actually names the age. No, it says girls who've not menstruated yet is what it's talking about. And surah 654. We're going over this for like an hour now. Yeah. Let me give you 20 seconds to retort. You got 20 seconds to retort and then we got to wrap it up. Yeah, I want to move to the other topics for sure. Yeah, let's move to the other topics. I want to say this is that a lot of the things that you're putting in here are subjective and you're putting your own opinion. You're good at that which you're putting your own opinion in there. And like the brother said you don't have the you don't have the full meaning and understanding with the air via and you're not relying on on scholars that have you haven't said anything on the scholars that have spoke in a positive light regarding the marriage to Ayesha, Rady Allah who I'm huh. There's nothing positive about marrying a child. Thank you. It's nothing positive about

42:44raping a child. Exactly. And every marriage to a child is right or incest. Exactly. That's also evil. Yeah. Or murdering somebody's husband and sleeping with his wife. Yeah, that's evil. Yeah. All in the Bible. Okay. Yeah. All of sin and phone short of the glory of God. Romans 323. Yeah. Hey, or or or or possible lies. Okay. Yeah. Cause I don't believe that Da'wudu lace alarm. I don't believe that David could did that. And I don't believe that lot slip with his daughters. Okay. And and and here's the thing. You're questioning God's judgment. I don't know if anybody ever told I'm not. I'm questioning. I choose that first. I'm questioning that's your book. That's not in our book. God works through because all of sin is pulling short of the glory of God. God still can do great things for people to messed up. So does the Bible say they lot fails shorter the glory of God? Yes. Romans 323. I think this is good. Thank you very much guys. I think points been made. And let me let me be clear as far as this. Right. I'm probably as American as it gets. Who?

43:47Okay. 100% you know, my dad came here a long time ago. He fought into the Korean War to be an American citizen. Told me I'm an American. But I'm also a Muslim. Right. And I think when I say I'm a American, it gets like I'm not just your traditional Arab Muslim that you think is going to recite all the Quran to you. We're going to talk about this and how it addresses today's times. You say promote child marriages. And it was that women they have not menstruated. There's a time of the divorce is 90 days to you. 120 to him. That's because you haven't touched her. You doesn't say just because you're married to her doesn't mean you've touched her. Okay. And you're not supposed to touch anybody who has not menstruated. And to them at the time like today, our legal consent here is age 18, right? That's set by man, the courts, whatever it is. In the time of the past, people were getting married like a woman really was just to be married. She's to bear children, support her husband. That's what it was. We didn't have a lot of female doctors in the past,

44:47especially in the time of the prophet or any of these people. So women, as soon as you had a daughter, you were kind of trying to figure out where she going to go. And it was more than likely an arranged marriage because even in today's standards, a 20 year old woman doesn't have the best, I don't think she can pick her husband as good as her father could. If her father's a real genuine person and he's going to put her with somebody, I think he knows better to pick for the woman, even at 20. So back then, like my uncle, my uncle's born in 1911, I think he was 16. His wife was 12. All right. So question. Answer. You said in series 654, these young girls have not been touched. No. And so why do they have to need an itta then? Why has got any awaiting period? Because it was arranged. Her whole future was planned on her being married to this man. Correct. Now it's changed. He needs to make sure that she's taken care of it. That she's all right. You're not just leaving her to wait three months before she's taken care of. No, you got to make sure that her whole life just changed. And it's not just, and it's not just the it is because to find out if she's pregnant, it's compensation and making sure that this young girl is unfortunately, sir, you've just

45:49contradicted the Quran. I'm going to read sewer 3349. O believers, if you marry believing women and then divorce them before you touch them, they will have no itta waiting period for you to count. So they actually says the opposite. The waiting period is there because they have been touched. The marriage has been consummated. That's why sewer 654 is promoting child marriage. So it just contradicts everything you said. No. I was like Z because but Islam is not you're not you're not looking up to a 3349. Islam is not promoting like you're not having you're not promoting. Deribik Kaudt phrase was presented as sewer 3349 saying that if believers marry believing women and then divorce them before touching them, there is no waiting period. I don't know. We've got to say, Hey, listen, man, I think you're a good guy, but I think you're now seeing a problem in your religion for the first time. This is evil, man. This is one of the reasons we reject Islam. This is this is bad. I've had Muslims. I've had people leave Islam after I

46:51talked to them over this issue because they realize, wait a minute, this can't be from God. This is 100% from God. This is from God. It's the only religion that makes complete sense. sewer 654 allows you to marry and divorce little girls. How is that because at the time women were arranged marriages, but this is not. 100% is a marrying. It's an arranged marriage. It's an arranged marriage. Can you divorce somebody you've not married? You've married. Am I said it's an arranged marriage? Okay, so they're married. Yes. Okay, so sewer 654 is talking about marriages. They're married. Yes. Okay, great. Why is our waiting period then? To make sure that the girls taken care of. But it says in sewer 3349, there is no waiting period if they've not consummated the marriage. I believe they're consummating the marriage with little girls. I believe one other thing. There's another fact check that popped up there, which essentially it's saying this is like there's modern interpretations that I guess are more in line with what you're saying versus I guess historical interpretation. That's what it's saying.

47:54All the historical the classical tough seers agree with me. This includes preview best in girls. I don't believe preview I don't believe a woman has been not menstruated is to be touched. I don't believe and I wouldn't go for 18. See, but who's to say 18? Like why 18? Oh great. And I 100% agree. Like me. I won't talk to a girl under 22. Just because I don't have anything to talk to her about. Yeah, right. And I'm not here's why scientifically we can actually talk about this. So girls can actually complete puberty between the ages of 15 and 17. That's when they complete Tanner stage five. That's when hip development is complete. And that's important for birthing hips. Those that's important. Their hip development is very important. Plus the temporal aloeops have to develop that regulates sexual activity in the brain. And some studies say it can happen between 12 and 16 from what I've seen various studies. So all that stuff needs to be complete. So 18 is the minimum age. I guess we could say puberty is complete. Brain is at a place where they can actually process that. So that's like the bare minimum. Yeah, but that's not what the laws have said. It's a law law. Laws are not always based on science. They're not 100% they're not right.

48:57And the law is based off of what man says. Okay. And I don't really base my laws like if tomorrow they changed the age of consent to here in America to 12 or 15. I wouldn't make any difference to me because I'm going to keep it. Like I said, she at least has to be able to go outside. We've got to be at least 21 and be able to go outside. I'm not talking to any young girl. I have nothing in common to talk to a young girl about. So to me, the 18 age, I feel like comes from the simple fact that that's what people feel is okay. But it's come through trial and error and then the side. And then and then how many how many pre 18 year old births do we have today? Like it's not a woman can't have children before 18. It's very dangerous. So if a girl gets pregnant between the ages or 15 and under, she's like four times more likely to die in childbirth. Age is what? 15 and under. Four times more likely. And and and I'm not I'm not a scientist or doctor when it comes to women's births or anything like that. But I tell you this, my my aunt who was married at 12 to her husband, my uncle who was 16. She had 16 children. Okay. And and healthy births, you know what I mean?

50:04So to me, when you going back in the day of 1400 years ago, women were specifically meant just for breeding like that. You're going to make a family and go and that's what it's that's what it's going to be. And if you're my brother and that's why there's multiple wives and stuff, you know, everybody here thinks it's because you just want to be like super player and have a bunch of women and a herm and stuff like that. That's not what it is. If you and I are brothers, we go to war who to come back to who better to take care of your wife if you don't make it back than me. Well, the cool thing is you can take care of a woman without actually having sex with her. That's one of the cool things of Christianity is that we promote that in monogamy. But this is back to the point here. Okay. Do you let's talk about the Hadith. Do you accept the Sunnah? I don't really go follow my Hadith. I don't know into that too much. I'm more into the Quran. Like I read the Quran plenty of times. Okay. I don't really go to deep into the Hadith. Do you think Mohammed consummated the marriage to a nine year old? I wasn't there. Do you think yes or no? Like do I wasn't there? I don't have enough knowledge on the subject. Do I do I think that the prophet had multiple wives and all of them were at

51:08menstrual age? Yes. Okay. All right. That's 100 percent. Back to the Quran then. Okay. Okay. So wow. Okay. So do you think a girl could actually reach the age of puberty or complete puberty more importantly by the age of nine? I think people matured a lot faster back then life. I think the A.C. wasn't longer. It's the opposite. No, I don't think so. Yeah. There's a paper called evolution development and the timing of puberty. It shows that in the pre-modern world, girls were maturing slower because of pornotrition. So the odds of a girl getting her first period of puberty. That to me. That to me. Rare. Eleven was the minimum. To me, that's less than one percent. To me, to me, that's kind of like subjective because like you're saying, pornotrition and I think our food today is way worse than it was 1400. I think you think the food here in America today is cleaner than it was 1400 years ago. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Because we're talking about nutrition. You're telling me that women weren't maturing fast enough because of nutrition. And I think the food back then was way cleaner more nutritional than it is today. The issue is not chemicals in food. It's the amount of nutrients. Most people in the food. Yeah, there's a lot of filler in

52:10the foods today. Most people in ancient countries lived off grain. That's the problem. They weren't getting fruits and vegetables and meats. Mets were rare. I mean, in the Middle East, there was a lot of fruits and vegetables and meat. There's a lot of fruits and vegetables and meat. There's a lot of food. Fish. Fish was eaten throughout history. There's a lot of protein like and health of infant girls in India. That's like I think the paper title. It talks about how like for example, you can actually look at this. They looked at Hindus, Muslim, and Christians. Christians had the most healthiest of girls because they consumed the most amount of meat, including pork. So they actually had the healthiest girls. So, so, so, hold on. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, you're telling me Christians are the healthiest? According to the study done in India, yeah, I don't, I don't really feel like that's a act like who are these people in what region are they in because you go to the Middle East is a big Christian population in Lebanon and places like that to eat the same food. I'm just telling what study said. I mean, just because it's written down doesn't mean it's true. Unless it's in the Quran, it's just because it's written down doesn't mean it's true. Just because you think it's wrong always to consummate a marriage to a nine year old. At this day and age, absolutely. What about in 14, 14 hundred years ago? Would it be wrong? I was in the round there. Okay. I'm

53:11just saying I can't really give you an opinion on something that I wasn't there. It's objectively wrong in all cultures and all times and all places are consummate a marriage to a nine year old. That's evil. There's no excuse for it. It was wrong. And over 200 of your, uh, how deep sources and then here in America, child marriage was an, uh, in America, in America, there's been plenty of child marriage. Yes. It is. And we're talking 14 hundred years later. It's a fallen world. Yeah. It's evil. It is. Okay. So then it's evil. Great. Child marriage. So I'm just saying like it's more common back then, but it's still around today. Does it? You have to remember you have to remember this, right? You as a Christian, pleasing Christ, right? We're 600 years younger than you. Okay. So we're a little bit more traditional than you are 600 years ago. Women will kept their hair covered. I mean, 200 years ago, you guys were burning women because you guys thought there were witches. That's a myth. There wasn't a sale in which trial. The idea that comes from Christianity is false. Read Nathan John Stone's book, The New Atheism. That came from rationalism. But people were doing it again in the name of God. A lot of do with a lot of bad things in the name of God. More people have

54:13died in the name of God. I don't know. More people have died in the name of God than anything else. I don't think that's accurate. No. There's a great book. You should read it called The Myth of Religious Violence by William Kavanaugh. The idea that religion is a major cause of violence is just not. Most of this is economic. But there are 100% there's definitely economic motivation. I think all the war is going on today. Economically motivated in the name of religion. Back to the prompt. Okay. So the problem is evil. Let's just evil. Evil. Evil. Like I don't want to I don't want this to get clipped the wrong way. Like evil to me. You're telling me that. Just answer full sentence now. Okay. It's full sentence. I think child marriage. I think touching kids being around kids interacting with children is terrible. There's no question about that. Okay. Look it. I see Shijitsu. I won't even do private classes with kids unless somebody else is in the room. I don't play no games about that. I don't think there should be any sympathy to anybody who's touching kids assaulting kids or anything like that. Okay. Let's be clear about that right now. So in our culture here today. It's not my job to go govern South America, the Middle East,

55:17Russia, Asia, wherever people are getting married. But I can say here where I'm in where I have a vote in. Yes. I'm totally against. Okay. So what if I would let's say there was a cult in Utah somewhere. Okay. Some weird cult. And they were marrying nine year old girls divorcing them and then letting the next guy marry her. And they were married for a week. They divorce her over and over again. Would you call that cult evil? It was good. We're going to pick our words correctly. Just the answer for sentences. Evil is subjection to the person who's saying it. Right? So I'm subjective. Yeah. 100%. No. Oh my goodness. Evil is not subjective. Like what you consider evil and somebody else considers evil. No. I think I think I for an eye is no problem at all. But a lot of people out here think that's evil. So morality is subjective. 100% are you a Muslim? 100% and you think morality subject to the person? Yeah. Like we we live to a certain standard, right? But certain people certain Muslims are going to hold certain parts of the Quran a lot more. It touches them and there are lots more strict than I am on that. I don't think

56:20you can be a Muslim and think morality does not come from a law. It 100% does. But how much you follow? We're not perfect. Human beings are not perfect. Right? But that's not what that means. So so you can go all the way to say in some people's eyes Hitler was evil. Some people's eyes he was a patriot right? That's subjective. Some one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter and some people are going to consider a terrorist evil right? Some people are going to consider them a freedom fighter. So it's very subjective into whose it's your opinion bro. You can say whatever you want. So it's someone's opinion. I think it's totally wrong. 100% wrong. If there's people in Utah touching kids and marrying kids off and doing stuff for pleasure. Yeah. Get them people put them under the jail. The morality is not subjective. That's my opinion. That's my opinion. The next person doesn't think the guy in Utah who's doing it doesn't think so. So can he do it? Is it objectively wrong for him to do that? In my eyes 100% okay. It's objectively wrong. Then why does the caron allow that very activity? Because the times are different. The times people were not people. I don't I don't feel 100% they are. All right hold up. We're not hold up men. No

57:23no no you as you and I go and I'm here to like listen I'm here to have an intelligent conversation. I'm not here to like I'm not here to tell you your religions wrong. I'm here to tell you that I'm right. Okay. I'm going to tell you your religions. That's fine. And that's what you guys have all been doing for the last 1400 years and where the fastest growing well religion. Okay. So what the fastest come to do is I think we're at a point where we could do our closing. My image you want to do your closing argument first this time or morality subjective but it's still wrong to did a little kids especially nine year old girls. Therefore it would be your opinion that what Islam promotes is evil. I agree with I would say that's objectively wrong. I don't know what else to say. Go ahead. Before closing statements. I think I don't think Islam promotes child marriage. I think Islam it was set in the time when things were totally different right women were really just around to reproduce and it was a husband

58:26that you would want as a father to find for your daughter right you got your father. I'm going to pick who I want to be with my daughter because really I'm not going to let my daughter pick she doesn't know what to look for in a man at at young age and really you want to have children young that was like the whole thing back then at the time people had their children young that's what a woman was for. Today's standards no and I'm not following I don't think eight 18 that's too young to me. I think that I think the age is 21 20 like he said 25 something like that so to me whatever they changed the law to man says that's not the law I'm following I make I don't follow somebody else's rules I follow my rule so I don't have to follow their rules and the Quran is what I base my moral compass off of. But I just say I think you're a good man come to Christ you're not basing your moral compass off the Quran. No she wasn't thank you thank you guys no I have a message. All right so we are still on the first prompt to you guys who want to talk first all right yeah he's a lot of promotes child marriage. Yeah well first very nice to meet you Michael nice to meet you sir so so yeah so my issue with your prompt specifically is more

59:32less the wording so you're taking historical cases and historical interpretations and you're equating that to Islam promotes child marriage now we're and well I should also add that the for just for the discussion oh yes I should also add for the discussion that the Cambridge definition the Cambridge dictionary definition of the word promotes is for somebody to is to encourage somebody to do a said action right so I want to throw that out there and then I also since you put your main two points out I want to clarify those so we can kind of get to the meat of the conversation conversation just I just want to like a Mary Webster the definition for promote is just to advance in station rank or honor to change in to a piece chess move by promoting the eighth ring to advance from one grade to the next higher to contribute to the growth or the prosperity of to help bring into being to present for buyer acceptance through advertising

1:00:34publicly or discounting so I mean there's many different definitions of promote what I mean by basically is that I'll just define what I mean when I say promote it allows it and through the actions of the prophet Muhammad it would encourage it if you're if you're told he's your pattern of conduct and you want to be more like him and submit to all decisions he's a man of outstanding character it's like this for example in Christianity we would say that it's a good thing to be a martyr for Christ that doesn't mean we say go everyone go out and do that what we say is that it's promoting that as a good as a good that that if that path happens it say good likewise what I'm saying is Islam allows child marriage and says it's a good there and we would expect Islam to promote what it thinks is good if it thinks it's child marriage is a good it'd be promoting in that sense so hope that clarifies okay understood yeah thanks for clarifying your term there um so so yeah I want to go um obviously I would say the biggest one is Ayesha's age so yeah there's absolutely traditional Sunni narrations that explicitly say that Ayesha's age at

1:01:36consummation was nine years old now um I'm not here to try to dispute that or try to debunk that and say well she was secretly 18 or 19 um but I do want to focus on um what that means what those narrations mean well for one it means that the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was he had one marriage under those circumstances and then that also um well and what it doesn't prove sorry um what it doesn't prove it does not prove that Islam encourages it and it certainly does not prove that that a nine year old in every single society time and setting is automatically capable of marriage now the the second point that I'm going to clarify and this is the last point I'm going to clarify and then I want to ask you just one question so the second point would be uh surah 65 ayah four so surah 65 ayah four um we do have classical scholars who have absolutely said that part

1:02:46of that verse pertains to young females who have not yet reached the age of menstruation so I will grant you that there is absolutely seventh to eighth century scholars who have granted that and they've conceded that as you had mentioned earlier in the debate um so I want to focus on what that proves again so that proves that there was indeed scholars from the seventh and eighth century that um that understood that verse um the interpretation of that verse within the framework of that society at the time right um what it does not prove it does not prove that the Quran is saying go marry um go seek women specifically that have not reached menstruation right it's not specifically saying that it's not saying go go um rather be with eight year olds than 20 year olds it's not saying that um and then what it's certainly not saying it's certainly not saying um that the marriage standards in

1:03:53seventh century arabia are going to be exactly the same in 2026 and I think even any secular or non-religious person that's watching this is kind of gonna also understand like that's kind of an absurd thing to assume that you know seventh century arabia marriage standards are going to be exactly the same in 2026 so the question I want to ask you is can islam can islam adjust to contemporary times uh let me answer the question first um I hope so I absolutely hope so but if the Quran is supposed to be the the final message the the the prophet is supposed to be the final messenger and this is guidance for all mankind you talk to the celifies I don't know if you're a celif you're not I'm not okay yeah they're got this they're they're gonna declare they're gonna tuck fear you immediately because the Quran is what is the guidance for humanity not it's not supposed to conform to secularism so they're they're gonna hate that first of all so I don't think if you're actually

1:04:56going what the Quran teaches no I don't think it can because if this is coming from a law this is supposed to be guidance for all mankind no he clearly allows child marriage and I agree the Quran does not demand child marriage that's why my prompt is not islam demands child marriage it's promotes did just give it an analogy here's a better analogy in christianny it promotes celibacy so this is why a lot of priests in the Catholic church are celibate but it doesn't demand celibacy but it does promote that path okay by allowing it saying this is a good thing so my question you is does islam say marriage is a good thing yeah I believe there's hadiths that certainly would say that and you would agree though it doesn't limit that to mature women um I would agree that marriage is a good thing um see there was this going yeah no no no I know I see where it's going yeah I see where it's going um and I would say yeah the historical interpretation would say that but I want to get to the point that you just mentioned about celifis right so the most prominent area um that we have today of celifis um slash wahabis would

1:05:56be Saudi Arabia now I'm no speaker for the gcc I'm not a Saudi agent just curious what's that are you Sunni um yeah I would consider myself Sunni okay just wondering um so um what's your akita by the way my akita yeah um like um with your school my school of thought um I follow the uh mal i follow the malaki school of thought I'm actually in some Muslims might uh disagree with me on this but I'm a little bit in the middle I'm sympathetic a lot towards the shia cause but I would say um I would more align with um Sunni Islam in particular yeah to see where you're coming from yes of course um so um let's look at Saudi Arabia because you brought up celifis and you said they would tuck fear me so yeah yes okay well let's let's look at Saudi Arabia so um Saudi Arabia follows the international Islamic thick academy and the Islamic the international Islamic thick academy is a Islamic institution that has agency over 57 Muslim countries and uh they yeah

1:07:02they hold authority over 57 Muslim countries and they have a specific rolling on young marriages so what we're talking about here um and a few of the criteria for it is capable time um maturity and the societal norms now the lot the united states library so and by the way just to clarify this is what Saudi Arabia follows so the united states library of congress has explained that Saudi Arabia has 252 provisions based on sharia Islamic law and what does that framework give them well it gives them 18 as the minimum age of marriage so it kind of goes back to the question that I had originally asked you can Islam comply to contemporary law and you said yes you would hope they do so this is a live example of a country that follows that and we could take Pakistan as example Pakistan has um also I believe it might be 16 or 18 I'm not 100% sure on that we can fact check

1:08:09but Pakistan um you can go to prison if an imam signs off an underage female or male um you can go to jail so these are modern contemporary examples of Islamic law um being adjusted to contemporary times okay first of all yes amen good to hear I'm glad the more child marriage we get rid of the better absolutely the problem I see is that for example unicef will report the highest rates of child marriage are still in the Islamic world north africa middle east because a lot of Muslims are pushing back against this western takeover of the Islamic regions enforcing them to have higher ages of marriage so the question is not what are modern Muslims doing the question is is what is Islam teach what is the Sunni teach what does the Quran teach and I think it's very clear that if you're going to be a good Muslim you can't be a you cannot be somebody who's against child marriage I think a lot of what's going on in these worlds people like yourself praise god or westernizing

1:09:12you're you're rejecting the tenets of Islam and you're trying to force it to adapt as you even said adapt to western culture but that's not what the Quran teaches just not trying to clarify what you said yeah I didn't say adapt to western culture that's absolutely no it's going to clarify yes that is an international Islamic thick academy right that's not which is which is a branch within the greater Islamic corporation is what it's got it's and so yes so that's that's not westernizing right these are Islamic jurists that's not fitting in assimilating with western culture these are Islamic jurists and and and you know I know you don't let's go up on it so sure sure are they doing that because this is what the Quran teaches um are they doing what because you're pushing these Islamic laws at minimum ages 18 no it's um it would be a combination of things right so I mean there's thick a sool thick okay but yes what does these what does the Quran teach though does it set a minimum age anywhere no it doesn't does and I'm not trying to do what about

1:10:14is them but does the Bible I would say the minimum the minimum is actual full maturity so you have to complete puberty according to the Ezekiel 16 okay okay there's that and that's what that's what the Islamic thick academy also says they also say maturity does the hideeth say that difference here no the the hideeth doesn't say that but the headdith well I mean there are hideeths that yes mention roocht um which is um mental maturity and then there's also hideeths that talk about physical maturity so yeah there's that can you vary a nine year old according to the teeth well no um I wouldn't I wouldn't say that the hideeth is regulating okay well Mary a nine year old and I'm not saying it does okay can't not do but can can you marry a nine year according to the the according to the I actually what and I'm not trying to avoid your question but I wouldn't say that because the hideeth is simply just a narration on what when um iishah was conscious do you agree that that was consummated at nine yes I do okay does the Quran not say surah 321 surah 3321 that

1:11:15Muhammad is the pattern of conduct yes okay so you can do stuff he did unless the Quran for visit like have more than four wives um you can do sorry could you repeat what you said you can do whatever Muhammad did a less the Quran for visit like having more than four wives um I wouldn't I wouldn't say necessarily because as I said we have contemporary time so we have Islamic jurists who are saying no you can't do that and in matter of fact you would go to jail so why though because because then this is great because um you had mentioned like there are studies that and I what was the study that evolution development and time and poverty yeah there's also a bunch of studies on child marriage for sure and I I agree with those yeah I agree with those so um if you look back you do see that um probably the average female during seventh century Arabia yeah they're probably not mature right now they're never now right okay so contemporary so contemporary times we now know with the psychology and the science that we now know today we now know that that is not

1:12:20the best case scenario that is not something that is promoted to do so therefore as I've been saying this this Islamic fick academy they've and have agency over essentially every Muslim majority country they are saying don't do that and and but notice how you said you said they're not doing it because of modern scientific research yeah not because of what Islam teaches and that goes back to the point I want to make now they're not going off what is in the Quran or what is in the and using modern studies so these studies are saying child marriages wrong and they're using their reason and they're going you're right this is wrong that's not what Islam teaches though that's the problem when I bring up child marriage it's an external critique Islam does not match reality those studies show that that's the problem okay um and again not trying to do what about Islam but we should extend this principle to Christianity right so in Christianity because I have a parallel parallel example here so the Old Testament obviously permits slavery it actually gives instructions in certain verses and the New Testament it doesn't explicitly prohibit it is it is where okay so

1:13:25in our first Corinthians 7 it says you can't sell yourself a new slave first Timothy it actually includes in slavers in a list of sins so therefore you cannot force someone to be a slave and then it says in Ephesians 6 you have to treat slaves equal to their masters so no making new slaves no forcing new slaves and also the current slave have to be treated as equals therefore slavery is outlawed well well the well you just mentioned current slaves so I mean there's actively so if it was prohibited then it would say their legal status though under the Roman Empire in the church they are to be treated as equals okay but there's still slaves yeah but the church has to treat them as equals not as slaves but are they still slaves yes or no according to the Roman Empire yes not according to the church okay well um from what I would I have read um Christian scholars have prohibited slavery because of contemporary times no that's incorrect that's incorrect no I mean you can read books like for example um what is it bonds of salvation you can read um the price of freedom denied by Robert Fogel they point out this was a religious movement and they

1:14:26outlawed slavery because of Christianity basically all right and then they went into the Islamic world and then forced them to eat rid of their slaves as well she's a document so so you so you use this example and this is still in the prompt but I'm shifting a little bit you use the example that there's the Quran verse that essentially says that the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is the central example for Muslims we follow his conduct etc 2321 okay yes so um now let's look at that right because we do follow his sonah but do we follow every single intricate little thing that he does like he wrote a camel right so are is it sooner like worse like instead of me pulling out and the good old Honda Civic am I supposed to just get a camel off the lot you know I want to ask to Muslim why did you die your beard red he said because there's Hadith that same Muhammad had a red beard so there are Muslims that would disagree with you and say the more they act like a seven century prophet the seven century prophet the more they'll be pleased with Allah so there I've

1:15:28seen tutorials online showing you how to walk like the prophet so there are a lot of Muslims that they would say yeah you have to do everything like him as much as you possibly can I yeah so so I I hear what you're saying um me as a Muslim I haven't experienced that I personally haven't seen a camel outside the mosque that's great yeah um yeah but but but I remember I noticed what I said as much as you possibly can do okay um so wouldn't you follow jeez I mean Jesus is considered God to you so I think that would extend even to a farther extent prophet Muhammad is a prophet he's not God so you guys revered Jesus peace be upon him as literally God so if he's literally God I'm sure that would extend even farther so I mean there's right I mean while you're looking at me like that the difference is in Christianity we have a system called virtue ethics okay so yes Jesus is our pattern of conduct yes as so far as much what we can do like I cannot just turn water into wine at moments notice but I'm to follow his pattern sure just like you're to follow Muhammad's pattern

1:16:32so I'm going to follow the virtue ethics Jesus taught and I think you're going to follow what Muhammad taught as well okay but this goes back to the prop what did he teach according to 65 four he allows child marriage but did he teach where where like where is that he's teach and so well okay well Allah um is is the author of the Quran right so that's not Prophet Muhammad so it's not like oh well he allowed this right so I mean I think that's what I mean I'm just I'm he's the messenger though so he's he's telling you what a law is teaching right essentially okay so essentially 654 he allows you to marry and divorce pre-pubescent girls well I again I would I would go back and say that's not the prophet Muhammad that's God okay that's even worse and now God is teaching you it's okay to marry and divorce pre-pubescent girls yeah I mean and I mean we have we have examples in in the Bible and again I'm not trying to do what about is him but I think the principle should remain the same for both of our religions right so there's parallel there's a

1:17:33parallel account in both Matthew and Mark where Jesus um or a woman comes up to Jesus and she says oh Lord oh Jesus can you help save my daughter like she was right I was yeah yeah she calls her a little girl because she was 12 so in the Bible a 12 year old is a little girl you can't marry little girl I finish what I'm saying okay please like let's okay I let you talk let's let's okay so she asks Jesus can you save my girl my daughter right who's written by the devil she was written by the devil and what does Jesus do in both accounts he ignores her after the first time she says anything she he ignores her and then oh you're talking about the canada woman yeah yeah I wasn't really sure okay I thought you were talking about the other healing that's okay yeah it's understood um so um yeah he ignores her and then he calls her a dog because he said explicitly he only came for the last sheep of Israel because she was a goi she was a goi so she

1:18:36was an on Jew he said that he only came for the last sheep of Israel and he calls her a dog now of course there's context behind this first yeah I just did a video on it in June called what's Jesus racist so there is Jesus a racist so I absolutely don't think he was a racist but this has nothing to do with the the general no no no it it does actually I let me finish okay so so that's an example of Jesus Christ during those times now if we want to nitpick and go exactly how Jesus peace be upon him acted during that societal framework and then we want to look at the prophet Muhammad yeah the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him there's authentic adi that he married Aisha and she was consummate it at nine years old well do you think that um a a Jew should just ignore somebody if they ask for help and just be like uh well now I only came for the you know what I mean so it's kind of it's it's a parallel example I think you have to extend the principle

1:19:36to both uh religions okay so if I'm trying to follow what you're saying here yes so we're not talking about that we were talking about 654 according to you a law gives permission for muslim men to marry in divorce pre-pubescent girls we were talking I'd like you guys to do your last two minutes statement yeah go ahead because I don't I don't know what you're going no no no no I think you lost track we were talking about the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him being a perfect example for muslims so I was extending that I was talking about 654 no you were talking about uh surah 30 30 um something I mentioned that earlier yeah but the last one I brought up was 654 okay um could you explain to me what as I've been saying this whole time sewer 654 allows for Muslim men out to marry in divorce pre-pubescent girls that is promoting child marriage that is evil so do you so you read the definition of promotes in the beginning of yes promotes and permissible and allows are completely different things those are completely different arguments I define promote for you though you did and that's not promoting okay when I you're just you're just playing a game of semantics

1:20:41well I mean I think that's pretty important because I already conceded your points in the beginning right I conceded the narrations and I conceded the caran verse I conceded that to you okay now okay so so are you conceding at least for the sake of conversation that is lumbar lousy child marriage back no back then it was permissible I'm saying now absolutely it's not why because of what was lumbed teaches or because of science yet jerk okay jerk listen do you remember what I said about Saudi Arabia there was 252 provisions that were interpreted by sharia law what did that come up with the minimum age of 18 and you agree with me they did it because of scientific research not because of what is lumbed teaches no I did not agree with that okay I then we have to go back and watch let's do final statements yeah all right my my going first where wants go ahead okay thank you so yeah I think that you know I conceded your points in the beginning about the narrations and about the surah but you're you're insulting me because I'm

1:21:43going about semantics but okay not insulting you okay not not insulting but okay but I think it's very important because if you're prompt prompt is saying promotes and I gave you the Cambridge definition of the word promotes and it's to encourage somebody to do a said action and even the I think it was Oxford dictionary you read even that permissible during seventh century Arabia does not mean promotes or encourages there's nothing that promotes or encourages either in the Quran or in the Hadith there's nothing that is promoting there at all okay so final statement you've conceded that yes mahamid did consummate a marriage to a nine year old you've conceded it to a 654 according to all the classical tough sears allows for marriage to prepubescent girls let's just go on your definition of encourage if mahamid is the pattern of context if he's supposed to be the one of the greatest men who ever lived the greatest man who ever lived so a lot and it's you can do anything he did as long as the Quran doesn't explicitly forbid it like having multiple

1:22:45wives past four no you can hold up is this closing statements then it is encouraging because you're setting up this guy on a pedestal saying everything he did was great he had sex with a nine year old girl and you're supposed to be like him that's bad that's evil that's encouraging that's promoting and again six five four is the nail in the coffin says you that Muslim men can do this and it doesn't set a minimal age at least if you put that Ethan there it's just a mile from a pedophile yeah because it stops it not as mahamid a job said in speakers corner one day but it's still promoting still encouraging I think you're a good dude I think you need to come to Christ and reject Islam because this is where it really is I got Christman I got Christ peace be upon him so come to Islam brother nice meeting him all right so we are still in the first prime to everyone to go first yeah I've been talking a while why don't you tell me why you don't think is long for much yeah so first of all I find a little bit ironic that you spend the past couple of weeks coined about Muslims trying to get you but here you are having a conversation the Muslims are

1:23:45you're not afraid that one of us may say are you trying to change the subject no we don't we don't we don't let me explain something we'll talk about let me explain no no no you brought me this personal I'm just fine I love it now no no no no I'm gonna respond now my goal my main duty as a husband is to protect my family from G-Hoties of course so I'm protecting my family and they're currently with my grift and your family members to keep safe hundreds of thousands of layman Christians yeah mad bro your community doesn't support you but they support us I'm nobody I'm nobody I don't have any yeah just keeping that way then yeah it's fine it's fine I'm not doing this for cloud anything so certainly starting that way anyway you said that the prophet we hear a dog barking back but anyway so you said that the prophet allowed him to marry a child is that your partner that is correct right so when Hadith says that the prophet married Aisha which was six and then consummate the marriage when she was nine

1:24:46when you read this for you this is a child of course nine year old is a child to find a child anyone under the age of 18 wait that's what anyone under the age of 17 years old I 17 years old girl and 17 and 11 month is a legal yes we're not talking about legally we're talking about religious okay biologically biologically logically and biologically then someone who is not completed all stages of puberty yeah but that's that's not that's not objective yes it is not is biologically objective no it's not not all girls gonna complete their puberty at the age of 18 I didn't say some of them that's exactly what you say I said legally it's 18 biologically you complete all that's okay let's focus on biologically okay and logically I don't care about trusecular constitution I don't care about 18 I thought last time I checked the prompt it says a Christian against Muslims right not a secular liberal against Muslims but that would be another uh uh conversation do you have an argument to make or what yeah because you were saying 18 that's

1:25:47not biblical that's not Christian you don't show you in the Bible it doesn't matter what's the 18 yeah show me show me you can only marry 18 years old in the Bible go ahead okay really are very easy I'll be less than 30 seconds Ezekiel 16 says you have to love making occurs after puberty is complete we know that's not complete till the ages of 15 to 17 therefore legally it makes sense to set it 18 boom where's 18 I just explained it to you did you were not saying yeah but it's not it's no you said no biologically it's between 15 and 16 and what is it 17 is what I said yeah well what's 18 I just explained it to you what's 18 because it's you'll literally say I challenge it on the 18 and now you say 15 and 16 so what's 18 I just explained it to you if you complete puberty between the ages of 15 and 17 what is the age right after that but if you complete at 15 and 17 what is the age after the period of 15 thank you but it is no but you complete before that what you complete pre-bred to be before 18 you literally saying that did I did I not say did I not say did I not say did I not say hold up did I not say biologically it's when you complete all

1:26:48the stages of puberty did I always 18 though I never said that was what are we talking about children apparently so so just because what children apparently no so anyone is on their 18 even though they complete puberty they still they still they still have a child says I'm not going on script I have to explain it to you so I'm going off the dollar script I get it what dollar legally it's 18 biologically it's when you complete all the stages I don't care about legally I'm talking about biologically you literally I think we're going really I just want to make sure you are saying that biologically a girl can complete puberty before 18 right of course I don't think you see are you tracking are you so if she completes puberty before 18 she's not a child biologically she's not I can't have anything again you let me finish go ahead okay biologically that is completed between the ages of 15 and 17 and I already said biologically when they complete puberty they are an adult that happens between the ages of 15 and 17 legally

1:27:48we assign it to adulthood at 18 because that just makes sense I don't know if it matters for this prompt because there's a distinction that is saying that this is a child versus I mean you guys are kind of the definition is very important because here he uses a secular definition of what the child is right biological when you come to logical and biological and religious definition comes to what a child is is when a a girl go through puberty when she menstruates and all the other signs that goes and follows then she becomes a woman before the 1800s that was always the criteria that they followed now after the secular you know your daddy at the White House they made up the number and now anyone who is under the age of 18 is a child that makes no sense I cannot wait to be in that will then apparently that's gonna be all right so just some okay now you show me a nine year old is ever actually an adult can you show me saying that and a nine year old would never be an adult like and now you're ever being a ever in all times and all generations can you prove that

1:28:52yes because you kid do not complete puberty until the age of 15 or 17 who said do you have to complete puberty I this is what biologically it means to be an adult means you've completed puberty no it's not yes it does yes it does according to who according to medical researchers now that's not true so before I get CDC for no you know who who cares about your yeah who cares about I'm just gonna be I'm just gonna be a quick some fact checks right so Piberty typically ends around age 16 and 17 seems like that so before 18 right right there okay nice 15 to 17 I know I know so if she completed before 50 that's right there yeah it says 15 it says 15 so if you complete puberty before right is that a nine year old so when oh my god man that a nine year old isn't I'm not talking about nine we're gonna talk about the nine years old no problem but according to you said if she's in 18 she if she's not 18 she's a child right but then you said legally if oh my god who cares about legal I don't care about your man man constitution biological well yeah we're talking about biologically then what did I say that can you steal man my argument go ahead you said

1:29:55that if um a girl's not 18 she is a child that's not my argument you did not steal man it I said legally it's 18 biologically she completes all the stages of puberty okay and and if she's 18 she's like for example 15 or 17 she's stuck on this thing man just move on can we talk about nine is nine ever completing puberty she doesn't have to complete puberty so in Islam you have to understand something we don't have objective criteria comes to the marriage age we don't have a number we don't we don't have an objective number who comes to the um man that's your problem criteria we have an objective criteria about her well-being there's multiple signs that she have she has to go through for example the development of her breasts for example uh adult pubic hair and menstruation is part of those signs as soon as she shows those signs that she's ready to be physically matured and mentally matured for marriage then she becomes uh she can be

1:30:59she can go and marry so according to you it doesn't matter if she's not if she doesn't matter if she's 9 10 12 or 25 so according to you they have to start menstruating no they don't have to okay so the one you mentioned all that so you can marry a pre-reaching girl I said no you don't have no no because she can uh uh reach all those other criteria and she doesn't menstruate okay so that you can marry a pretty rest and girl no big no because you're contradicting yourself because she reaches other criteria she has other criteria that you know like for example give me one you let's say an 18 years old right who has all the criteria she reached all the signs of you know becoming you know uh uh an adult but she didn't menstruate okay is she still considered pubicin if legally even 18 because she's gone through all the stages of puberty stop repeating legal I don't care about legally but then why do you keep bringing up the age of 18 because you'll bring it up because then I said it was legally and then you said don't care about that but you keep bringing it up are you tracking

1:32:02no you're not you're the one who's not tracking okay back to age of nine again 18 the prompt the prompt I'm gonna read it again is uh Islam promotes child marriage that's the problem and can you marry a pretty best girl so we believe you we're 654 uh we'll get to that so we believe that the professor I was gonna married her consummate marriage when it was she was nine also herself in another had you so the only reason you believe that she uh um she married the problem she was nine you believe in that right no I'm saying that's what Islam teaches no but is that historical you believe that actually happened or you just I don't think that I think that either correct so if I issue herself says another had it that she was a woman when she was when she was married you would you take that had it no wait what would you hear actually when she says nine prompt you're going yeah but subject no it's not no we're talking about her no no okay is a nine year old in adult yeah it could be it could be okay how so I don't care about you definition of an adult but in Islam

1:33:03there's criteria to have you met to to deny your adult because we say she's an adult no no so in in again there's a uh a no harm principle in Islam right okay that we follow that Islam teaches and preachers something you never mentioned by the way you know we didn't know you never met my last debate on this yes I did actually so so can you kill apostates in Islam sure okay so that you allow harm that can you kill can you kill apostate in in Christianity oh no yeah you can no no no no we don't need to do the new testament you can't even like no the only hold up hold up the only the allowed exactation someone you just contradict it yourself again another god you just contradict it yourself I'm not you said there's no harm in Islam but then you said yeah we can kill apostates no I don't think those who do not deserve harm for example two parties going married two friends together etc etc not an apostate an apostate or someone who like your enemy for example you're finding someone there's no harm in the attack you of course you're gonna of course you're gonna harm it's a it's a it's a general it's a general saying not an absolute thing oh so you contradicted yourself I'm not conscious it's a general statement not an absolute statement okay all right so can you understand 434 can you hit your wife

1:34:04so you're 434 can you hit your wife yes okay so then you do you allow harm in Islam thank you how do you how do you hit her again I again as a general statement it's a general statement that goes with other details okay can you marry pre-pubescent girls let's go back to the you see you just shot getting around like this is what you guys I'm not just going to what you said man as soon as you go I'm asking simple questions and you're walking right into them I'll tell you can you marry pre-pubescent girls 654 says you can more marry a divorce pre-pubescent girls we'll get through that we'll get through that you stop running from the topic no one is what I'm gonna no it's my turn now answer the question can you okay so we're done with the Hadith right I shall may Allah be pleased with our another Hadith says if a woman if a girl reaches the age of nine back then means she is a woman right like as if today when most women get to the age of 15 16 they're the question they reach all the other signs of being a 65 now let's go to

1:35:07this 65 for yeah what about it I'll ask it again can you marry end divorce pre-pubescent girls according to 65 for no okay so all so even if the air court to be top right there are wrong so prove that this verse is talking about pre-pubescent it mentions females so okay well then does it does it ever qualify they have to breach the age of maturity it doesn't talk about exactly so it includes all girls who've done why you add into the text then I'm not saying I'm going what it says you're adding it's not I'm not anything okay so do you know you're not in your eyes no listen listen so the the text says it talks about two categories of women the old one who reached the age of a menopause who do not menstruate anymore and then the ones who actually did not menstruate yeah right did not menstruate right okay this is what it says and those who did not menstruate as well and so you read this and so oh this is children it includes it why why would you think that because it includes it because children yes not menstruate but look at the context what about it so yeah so just because it talks about

1:36:13those who did not menstruate doesn't mean they're children because it's other categories all right so does that word mean does that word include children no yes it does in surah 249 for 127 talks about infant and orphan girls so that word is used in the Quran for infant and orphan girls which which word the word for women for women in the in the depends on the context for the depends on the context this this verse talks about women and talks about two categories of women the old ones and the young ones yeah for example the young they're not children it just because what's a young woman then if I tell right now I married a young woman would you think I married a child possibly yeah what yeah why would you think that because you said she's young a young woman means like you know she's young and woman is a general term that can be used in the Arabic it's used for all women of all ages I gave you the verses yeah but in the Quran is in Arabic there's a word in Arabic and that word in Arabic is used for females of all ages not all the time 249 no not all the time for here for example the Quran or the Hadith for example

1:37:15or the exegesis could could use another one what is the female child in Arabic I don't remember but I know this word is used for general yeah no we have a specific word for for children it doesn't matter it does matter no it doesn't because that's more specific let me explain to you why no matter hold up let me explain to you because the Quran is not qualifying at all it's not saying to marry children it's saying exactly you can marry women who have not menstruated and that according to all your tough seers the early tough seers that includes women that are too young because they're pre-pubescent it doesn't look like Jalilane cut the ear even catheer excuse me it doesn't say that it doesn't say children at all it does I'm an afraid of tough seer then it says young so you would are you saying the tough seers are wrong no I'm saying that sefce says young not child all right let me let's just go to tough seer I'll go back I read this earlier let's go to Jalilane okay okay it says if you have any doubts about their waiting period their prescribed waiting period shall be three months and also for those who have not menstruated because of their young age their period shall also be three months so because of their their young age because they've not menstruated

1:38:16yet that includes pre-pubescent girls no but they reach other criteria of being becoming an adult so Courtney you in his law you can have sex you can marry an sex with a girl who's not menstruated yes okay then Islam allows child men it's not child no yes for example there now of the sefce of a court will be right for again none of the exegesis in arabic the classical exegesis actually uses a tifla for example yeah remember this what tifla is the child a woman in you know in a relevant but going it is very it's very relevant because this is this is this is what you're saying you're saying this verse is using that term but that's not it's not using that term it's using young that's it young could be interpreted many ways and you have one of these in your commentators say it includes pre-pubescent girls it doesn't say pube what do you mean it's not menstruated yeah not because of their young age okay it's not pube it's not pube it's not pube it's a pre-pubescent do I need to read even catheer where does it does it say pre-pubescent go ahead so do I need to do I need to read more of these for you then pre-pubescent right you said you said

1:39:20do jazalain jazalain say pre-pubescent I'll read it again okay because I also have those who've not menstruated because of your age what is a girl who has not menstruated because of her young age so there is a lot of young girls who could reach other criteria of being an adult for example there's multiple signs of puberty one of them is menstruation there is a condition a medical condition called primary anemoria where girls can reach the age of 15 and 16 by the way anemoria just means the absence of menstruation at the age of 15 and 16 right and so these girls grow up to be like 17 18 and up to 25 and they did not menstruate for according to you these are still children just because they don't menstruate but they have fully developed that's not what I said no this is no I'm saying it's a big deal one second younger I'll court will be I'll court will be says this actually he says he explicitly mentions this and he says is very is very a lot of

1:40:21erroneous young girls he says this is your perverts at interpretation for the for the test no this is no way it's an interpretation I can't judge through your own scholars and the a zelleleine ibn kethed all use young yeah yeah young again again yes what is a girl who's too young because she has menstruated listen the answer to the question again please he's not answer talks about two categories the old one and the young one okay so of course if it's too young to old for example the a woman that reached the age of menopause and for example when he says the young ones that means you know younger than that specific woman who reaches the age of 70 80 and 90 is there a cutoff point you doesn't have to exactly the verse doesn't say a cutoff point it's my exactly so it's based on your interpretation so so i'll just let me ibn kethed everybody repeats the same thing he says young yes you know it's young right but it doesn't say children right so for example those girls who reached all those are you gonna call them children answer my questions are my question are our children you still have an answer my question one second are our girls

1:41:25that reached the age of 18 19 20 25 but did not menstruate because of this condition are the children in your in your view no but they're included in no well with young children right they're young women so that doesn't change the young woman right you're this is what about us i agree the verse includes women who have not menstruated because of a genetic issue but it still includes there you go menstruated because they've not reached that age yet it doesn't it doesn't yes it does it doesn't it doesn't i like to get into the two minute closing arguments uh whoever wants to go first okay go ahead you're so eager uh one second so my my closing argument would be i don't have to repeat everything i just said uh but yeah so this is important that's why i say i don't care about your liberal uh uh secular secular's uh opinion because uh for Christianity we have to talk about this double standards actually Christianity marry with 12 i i'm pretty sure you're gonna say no but

1:42:26it's it's it's historically is well documented marry with 12 when she married Joseph and you can find this in okay you laugh about it but you can find this in a document that goes back to the uh second mid-century you might help you out i'll tell you what document it is yeah it's called the proto-evangelium of chains okay are you are you rejecting that one yes of course we don't reject because it's not scripture the Catholic and psychopedias i don't get it's not true i don't care if it's not scripture i'm going to use like the pee you don't get it you don't get it i don't get i don't i don't feel uh i don't go by the way also in that and it says that she went didn't consummate she did that she was not consummate it i'm excuse me not consummate it but the conception of christ did not happen until she's i don't care about i'm talking about her marriage with Joseph when she was 12 and he was old the fact check is saying that the bible is basically saying that this is a contradicted statement what's the contradict that it never mentions her name in the bible i'm not talking about the bible this is not the bible the yeah this is not the bible no it mentions her her name in this uh document and this is historical this is historical i going to you this is authoritative on you no it is literally said the opposite no just because

1:43:30it's not part of the bible does mean it's not true it's not a thing i don't care about your holy spirit saying this is true and not true i don't care about that this is historical this is what you call you know yeah okay so uh once again the proto-evangelium of james is according to even the catholic in psycholipedia an unreliable late work that is not taken seriously if you want to look at scholars like michael salo and ram trooper they say girls and judia during the during the time of jesus we're marrying on age we're marrying on average between their late teens to early twenties all thought i'm talking now i don't care what's called i'm talking i'm talking i'm talking i'm talking i'm talking i'm talking give me evidence this is evidence this is evidence so i just gave you i mean you check out their books all the research from the early period shows that girls were marrying on average between late teens to early twenties however you've conceded that mahamid consummate an marriage to a nine year old if you're not able to show me you've not been able to show me that a nine year old's an adult you've not been able to show me that the caron doesn't allow you to marry and divorce pre-pubescent girls and according to sura thirty three forty nine there's no itta if the marriage is not been consummated therefore these pre-pubescent girls

1:44:32have had the marriage has been consummated therefore you're allowed to sleep a little girl's the caron is promoting that that's evil that's wrong you've not done anything you really reject this and your own commentator say this so like al-wahadi for example says a messenger of a law what is the waiting period of women who does not menstruate and the women who has not menstruated yet and what is the waiting period of the pregnant woman so a lot exalted so goes on and go done you're repeating same thing at the first it says that does it say yes you repeating what the first says does it say yet yes oh thank you all right debate over thanks what do you mean I already explained everything now menstruate yet you're right the 25 the 25 years old girl she did not miss her yet is she a child huh what you're already conceited it's over man whatever all right thank you guys appreciate it hey guys you know I don't do promos for just anybody the only reason I'm talking about legends right now is because they completely flip the script look the reason I know it's different is because I actually met the team in person in Las Vegas I trust these guys and how they run the site changes everything legends is a premium US sweepstakes casino it's free to play and when you win they feature

1:45:33lightning fast redemptions they have a massive game of variety hundreds of premium slots sports and live tables you can play entirely for free stop dealing with platforms that lock up your funds hit my link right now and go see why legends has earned its name hit the link below my prompt is maham and is not in the bible all right who wants to start maham is not in the bible all right it's impossible from a homie to being the bible it's absolutely impossible because you're telling me if we're going to the bible to predict the future you're telling me the bible is authoritative on predicting the future but it's not authoritative on its theology in history the biblical prophecies are theologically indexed meaning they're attached to the theology of the books to teach them so any prophet that comes along and contradicts the bible is by definition of false prophet maham and contradicts our bible therefore he's by definition of false prophet therefore the they could never be predicting him so go ahead you want to show me a place where you think he's there give me 30 seconds it's just straight silence all right I'm gonna say you right because I'm not going to go into the depths again of the Arabic and explain where

1:46:38maham is mentioned all through the bible so we're gonna let's leave that on say you right but you do realize that there's a hundred and forty thousand prophets only thirty of them was mentioned so what is it what are you what are you implying that he's not in the bible so what there's there's a hundred thousand more that ain't in the bible either well so that mean they're not prophets they mean our service of God can I read you a verse then yeah good good I want to go to Surah seven are you in woo do I'm going to the verse are you in woo do now so yeah you're reading with the jins go ahead yeah okay so this is Surah 7177 it says the ones who follow the messenger the unlettered prophet whose description they find in their Torah and the gospel so according to your Quran I can find mahamid in my Torah and gospel where is he so mahamid do you know what that means what does it mean the praised one the praise one so who is akhamid who's akhamid means

1:47:38what is the praise one yeah so no no no no a comforter so so so a comforter but again we're going disregard that I'm going to stick with what you said you absolutely right he's not in the bible okay but there's also another hundred some thousand that are not in the bible either that I mean it wasn't servaness of God that means you're caron you're not in the bible mean are you not a servant of God it means you're caron is wrong are you in the bible no of course I'm not so but you are serving a guy right yes so so what's the difference the difference is is your caron says we can find mahamid in our Bible from the from the verse that you read in the state of impurity yes let me ask you something what hand are you ripe yourself with I actually use a bidet sir thank you okay you on this something I'm telling you look Mike you're going to be a Muslim one day and we're going to be in the right together and I'm about Mike remember who's on this show man and you was all here just going crazy if you got I'm telling you I hope you're right yeah I don't think you do I

1:48:40hope I hope you're going to be a Christian one day I'm a pray listen listen Christianity says we're speaking on it um Christianity with profit has spoke of the comment of Christianity what all of them which one so Isaiah for example speaks of the suffering servant he said Christianity no he didn't say it he taught it so so what is what is Christianity it's it's belief in the that Jesus died and resurrected in the tone for our sins so Jesus died for our sins correct hmm remember I tell you I'm gonna get him with this right I'm gonna go go get me let's do it Jesus died for our sins right I'm not dealing with the topic though Jesus died for the sins right yeah so we put our hands on a bible in court right at inaugurations and everything else right yeah so why are they still converting people if Jesus died for if if I'm in fact the Christian are you kidding me that doesn't make sense that's your argument I'm asking you a question you ask me a question so Jesus died for our sins so why are you convicted someone if he died for our sins because if you are Christian and you commit a crime meaning that that'll make you a bad person you just maybe

1:49:44had a bad action what do you ask your question and you committed a crime hold on hold on and you committed a crime but you are a devoted Christian do you do you why would you be convicted of a sin if Jesus died for this already because there's difference between the worldly and spiritual powers so so the world so the world outweighs the spirit let me ask you no that's not what I'm saying let me put it does a lot for give you a lot for give you if you repent okay so let's say you murder someone and you repent you still need to go to prison um I feel like you if you if you've got the audacity to murder someone I feel like you're already in prison all right thank you so you still go to prison then for murder murder no I said I said you you spiritually you are already in prison meaning you okay not like you have to go to prison because that's the whole economy that's a that's a financial game for the economy are you conceding Muhammad is not in the Bible listen I just told you I'm agree with you he's not in the Bible but there's also 140 other thousand prophets that night so do that mean them not a servant of God can we move on in this I want to get have you guys debate this a little bit but let's do closing statements okay you agreed

1:50:45already that he is prompt was yeah I mean I'm gonna say he's right but the the the millions of people without watches going to know exactly what I'm talking about okay do you want to make him trolling and I love him for that and I like a man you're pretty fun he ain't gonna be there one day because one thing I know for sure is this people who search that truth they gonna find it was it I will convert to Islam the day God loves it there's no such thing as convert that's a whole another subject okay that's a whole other subject God logic takes a shahada I'll be right there with him there's no such thing as convert that's another subject all right I'm very much you guys are done all right thank you so who's the who I want to ask you something if this conversation is adding to your life right now please take three seconds hit subscribe and leave a comment below that one action is what keeps conversations like this one happening thank you my prompt is the Islamic dilemma proves Islam is false all right who wants to go first yeah so the Quran claims to confirm our scriptures the scriptures we possess but then it thoroughly contradicts them in multiple places so it's confirming scriptures it contradicts so if our scriptures have been corrupted

1:51:51then Islam is false because excuse me Islam is confirming corrupted scriptures if our scripture has not been corrupted then Islam is telling us to it's confirming scriptures that would teach something contradictory to it contradictory to Islam so either way Islam is false okay got you so we're gonna go back to the very first because I'm a listener I listen to everything all right we gonna go back to the very first conversation we had you said it was over a hundred authors over the Bible correct yeah right so we're gonna just use an example if a hundred people you never met your father but a hundred people had something bad to say about them but you will see it if your father and you're a good man would you believe with the hundred people saying how authentic would that be so a hundred people came to me you said it yeah corroborated the story about my father right that'd be really good evidence that he did that he was wrong yes you will believe that yes even though you being a good man in the sea from him yes because you have to go on truth

1:52:53so why there's not a hundred judges in court what what do you mean there's only one judge in court other than supreme court okay so why are there not a hundred judges because of what it'll do what it'll cause what confusion that's too many people that's too many people with a story it's not accurate it's not accurate how does it have to do with anything does it matter the Quran is claiming to confirm all the judges because I'm I'm going there so if you have you you you only pulling things from your phone like verses that simplify what you want to argue when it comes to the Quran but if you look at the Quran where it's the only book that speaks about your God has a whole has a whole chapter about your God's family because you believe Jesus is God right Jesus is God right so the Quran has an entire chapter on the family of your God and has an entire chapter on the mother of your God okay but your book don't have a chapter on on his mother or his family yes it does

1:53:55it's according to Matthew Matthew wasn't even there it's according to John why's your Quran John wasn't there if my scriptures are corrupted why's your Quran confirming John wasn't there it's why is it according to Luke doesn't matter a hundred people remixed it this is a big mistake from a love then how could he can know this is a big mistake no no no no this is a big mistake from your God Jesus according to you I'm talking about your reasoning do we need to read a verse go ahead I love it I love it all right let's so let's um let's go this one of the ones I use oh I'll just do this one okay you always got to go to that we don't have to go today you know why fine tell me what sir 241 says to that's your biker yeah that's almost you almost are I a cursive but come on keep going all right so believe in my revelations which confirm your scriptures who said that according to you allow okay I think I'm inside it so where was you going to put from the Bible what where were you going to put from the Bible that's what I'm not quoting the Quran the Quran no I want you to quote what she was going to put from the Bible that's what I was going

1:54:56to quote I wasn't going to because if you lose that phone you might not know nothing so keep no what was you going to pull from the from the Bible out your phone I wasn't and you misunderstood I got you I don't have three times to do this come on let's go why are you slowing up read from the Bible which was going to read I told you I was going to read from the Quran I said to sir 241 so what does it say says believe in my revelations which confirm your scriptures okay what do you imply okay so a lot is saying we should believe in the Quran who is a law let me let me just start I didn't know I'm I'm asked you to confirm me who is a law you want me to be honest yes as a cave demon a cave demon yes okay so so a cave demon said this okay got you okay go ahead no I would say Muhammad said this okay okay Muhammad a man who couldn't read it right okay got you revelations from a law said believe in my revelations was confirm your scriptures he's claiming this is from a law right so according to Islam a law is saying believe in the Quran because it confirms

1:55:56the scriptures we have okay so that's sewer two right 241 so can you look up sewer three sure what does this say just ask with what is the name of sewer three I don't remember I'll tell my head no just pull up you got your phone go ahead uh out hey Siri hey Siri hey Siri I'm wrong okay so what is so the cave man who received revelations to Muhammad spoke about your God and his entire family but no you're not saying that but that's what it says on sewer three what does it say what do you think M. Ron is the entire chapter M. Ron is about the family of Easter a Lisa Surin 9 the opponents of Muhammad saying come on come on man you got to keep up I'm trying to get where you do it you just long me up come on can you actually deal with my argument now yeah I'm giving you your argument is that your argument is this your argument is this is that you said it was made by cave demon I'm gonna say to my mom what I said you know so what you say I asked you who was a law yeah and I said it's a cave demon okay so a cave demon a cave demon wrote about

1:56:59your gods and tired family why would he do that you keep misrepresenting me stop I did not say a demon wrote the entire Quran so who wrote the Quran I'm telling you this came from Muhammad and scribes put it down later a man who couldn't read or write he did not say he wrote it so if he can't read or write that would indicate what don't indicate he was just hearing stuff in the culture and he probably hearing the same things that maybe perhaps you hearing no so who are you hearing what what this is nothing to do with the argument it has everything to do with the dilemma that proves Islam is false what is the Islamic dilemma do you know it do tell me I'm here no no I already told I'm still trying to understand how what a cave demon right about your god's man is yes or no I'm trying to understand you know what it is I'm trying to understand you know why would your god why would a cave demon write about your god's entire family you know what these Islamic dilemmas know what is it okay so you weren't listening okay so once again in I am so it 241 says believe in my revelations i.e. the Quran which confirm your scriptures so the

1:58:00Quran over and over in multiple places claims to confirm the scriptures of the Jews and Christians but then we know the Quran teaches what is not let me finish one of the dilemma I'm giving to you so we know the Quran teaches theology that contradicts the Bible contradicts our scriptures so the Quran is claiming to confirm our scriptures while explicitly contradicting them but your scripture contradicts your own scriptures you just said there's a hundred people that wrote your scripture that's not my problem that's yours no but I'm saying you your own scripture contradicts your own scripture the Quran is the confirmation to the in jail not the Christian not the Christian not the Bible that you read in front that's been remixed a thousand different ways uh to to engage into uh free uh to have slavery as a comfort zone to kill and massacre millions of people for the political gain of what what's the in jail what is it in jail the gospel which is the gospel of Issa al-Asalam where we're in the Shahab was of him we're kind of

1:59:01reading the name where can I read the in jail that's a good question exactly that's a very good question do I have the in jail where is that in the Bible do I have the in jail where did Jesus speak to I have the in the Bible do I have the in jail Jesus never spoken in the Bible where do I have the in jail according to John Jesus said this John who was born 500 years after the ascension of Issa you I have the in jail in my Bible no you don't okay so what is the only one who holds the in jail is in the Vatican you'll never get there you'll never get there you said I'm saying you're you're reading from what you're reading from a hotel motel six Bible and trying to indicate that you are the reason and see the problem is this you have not you have not you're going by your logic but a year from now the same thing is you're saying you're like I don't even think that way now so okay you can't go off your reason and your judgment that's why we submit our will to the most high ends is deal with it does the Quran claim to confirm the scriptures that Jews and Christians possess it's the confirmation meaning not the Christians the in jellies not the Christians because no prophet is spoke about the coming of Christianity

2:00:04my questions man yeah just did sir at 1094 if you a prophet are in doubt about these stories that we've revealed to you then ask those have been reading the scripture before you so if Muhammad were to doubt not saying he did but if he worded out what is he supposed to do according to this verse sir 1090 if he was the doubt meaning he he would go to the ones before him which are meaning the prophets meaning like uh Issa meaning moosa he got to go to dead people according to you I mean he traveled to the heavens and see and spoke directly to these people so if you're in doubt ask those have been reading the scriptures before you who is that is not the Christians it's not absolutely not because what is Christianity so that we don't have the script what is Christianity so that we know that's not did we have the scriptures yes or no you are you are Christian correct yes what is Christianity ask me ask me what Islam is actually what Islam is not trying to distract stay on time you are Christian correct stay on time what is a Christian it's planning me what a Christian is it's planning me what a Christian is you can't ask the question because you confused

2:01:04yourself and I love it and you're gonna be all right I promise you're gonna be all right do we have the scriptures who we Jews and Christians no you don't okay then why does seward 241 say believe in my revelations what's confirmed your scripture he's not speaking on the Christians if you read the Quran in Arabic what you gotta learn if you're going to debate this the speaking of the people of the gospel the injellies and what is that it does not say Christianity what's the angel the ones who followed isa a la isa la I mean the the companions of him the disciples of him okay and it wasn't no Matthew it wasn't no mark it wasn't no Luke James John Thomas ain't nobody named Thomas in Syria is there's nobody there in Syria with the name Thomas or John or Luke what's the angel the angel is the gospel meaning the ones who were directly there with isa a la salam okay so why does it say we have it you don't have it it says we have the scriptures it does not say that no it does not your you're saying that sewer 7157 I would like to explain to you already does not what that said we can find the unleaded prophet it doesn't it does not say that you sure

2:02:08it does not you let me let me let me let me let me your telecom doesn't say that let me explain you about truth right no you can't just go you just can't go in any hotel any corner and find the truth you got a search for it is it wasn't you said it is given to you read that for me with what do you want me to read I want you to read the verse it's a man you got whole paragraphs that you put them in your phone that's the caron do you want to read the caron I'm I I recite the caron every day then tell me what's your 7157 says you tell me read it says those the ones who follow the messenger the unleaded prophet whose description they find in their Torah and in jail so do I have the in jail according to this verse I do you don't have the in jail the caron is wrong thank you no no I'm saying two minutes of comments if you want to go for a he be trolling man I know what the caron says no the caron is correct but what I'm saying is you're absolutely incorrect you don't have the in jail the in jail the in if the in jail was presented it wouldn't have been hundreds and hundreds of years of enslavement and slavery still going to date you were slaves just like me right

2:03:11because your brain is so wrapped around Christianity and the inner prophet that spoke of this there's not one prophet that spoke of the coming of Christianity no one not even Christ's self spoke of Christianity he said to follow what he said to follow what you're statement man you're y'all you're all taken to the contents y'all taken to the contents of oh he says he's the son and the father you take that directly no if you look at the history these are the studies of time in the show the authority and these times to speak on the father is the top authority the next and line would be the son it does not mean he's has an actual father or son that means you that we indicate it's a bloodline that's it's saying God is a blood has a blood when we can't even father more even imagine the comprehension of God himself all right sewer seven 157 says that we can find the unlettered prophet in our Torah and gospel according to the caron I have the in jail I have the Torah and I'm supposed to find Muhammad in there but the caron also claims to confirm my scriptures but contradicts them therefore the Islamic dilemma stands all right so

2:04:17great you have any retort 10 seconds or no man look I'm just making do off of you maybe we're going to be praying together next year away I'll tell you now I know it all right so we are on the third prompt whichever one of you gentlemen wants to go first does the caron claim to confirm my scriptures what do you mean by your scriptures the scriptures I possess what are the scriptures your the Bible the Bible no it does not why not the Bible is a compilation the Bible is not a revealed book does the caron claim to confirm what's with us the Bible is not a revealed book so when the when the Quran is talking about revealed books revelation so came first of all before I proceed can we agree upon that the Bible is not a revealed book of course not can we fact check this the Bible is a compilation this broadly so basically it's here I got to freeze this sorry one sec because now it's coming in real quick so the Bible is not a revealed book in Islam and mainstream

2:05:21Islamic sorry theology the caron refers to earlier revelation such as a Torah and gospel not the Bible is a single compiled canon the claim and the transfer reflects that distinction the statement is accurate as a description of Islamic doctrine through Bible no though Bible is a later compilation rather than a caranic category so what is with us what many who have come before me have told you these are things that have been written 300 years after Jesus you already talking about did they have the Bible in the seventh century in the seventh century when when they had the NG did they have the Bible the Bible that that Muhammad is saying that first of all that we're saying that you don't follow because you said that you said that there's nowhere in the caron that talks about the Bible not being refuted anywhere it never says our scriptures are corrupted

2:06:24yeah yeah so are you going first or you want me to get ready in the middle of the conversation okay all right so let's talk about let's talk about the Torah you know what what is the Torah oh no now we're gonna we're gonna get into I mean by any of your days all over the all over claiming to confirm what is with us that's the problem you have so no so again you don't have you don't have the NG how do you know that because it's been corrupted how do you know that well and you're talking to a Muslim so so the story just like we talked about we don't we don't believe anything against God's chosen prophets you got light sleeping with his daughters you got David killing men and taking their wives and and all these different things you got Noah's a drunk and and then you say you say this person is an evil person but then he says in the news new testament that no this lot is a righteous man does righteous mean perfect so there he does it

2:07:28mean that's my point exactly you know that's not you can't make the point that that's an Islamic point that that prophets listen you're quoting the Bible now no I'm not I'm gonna lose them I'll just be clear calling a lot righteous does not mean he's perfect interrupting me again he's using these tactics where where he won't let me get a word it's what that's not gonna work with me but why don't we go back start with what's the battle like what's the engine let's start with that the ingeal is the gospel that a book so do you know let's get this clear because we're we're gonna go we don't have to go in circles as you say if we don't have a shared understanding there's gonna be confusion okay so do you understand you studied Islam right yes do you understand the difference between a nabi and a Rasulullah and nabi and a surah yeah uh vaguely yeah what about it I can't I can't I can't you use it's most certainly don't expect me to proceed with you just saying vaguely what about

2:08:31what is the point you're trying to make I'm trying to get us on on the same wavelength so we can understand some things so make make a point then about the ingeal well you don't get to tell me I act I'm asking you a question either either be humble enough to say you don't know or you do know and tell me what you know vaguely know about it but it's telling me what you know I don't remember just explain it so you don't know yeah go ahead what is it okay so a Rasulullah is a messenger yeah I don't remember the airbag I'm talking ahead so do you know the difference so do you know the difference between a messenger and a prophet uh it's I get different opinions from Muslims all over the place some will tell me does the same thing someone tell me that people can be messengers and not prophets some will say they can't be so this is why I said so you'll have a clear understanding no because I get different responses from Muslims when I talk to them so so Abraham the father can we agree Abraham is a father of both religions no I will not objectively agree with that now okay but okay Abraham Abraham is is is is a messenger

2:09:38David Da'ul peace be upon him both yeah messenger I would say there's no difference there a messenger prophet but we if you let me finish I'm gonna get it to it Jesus peace be upon him messenger Muhammad peace be upon him messenger the distinction is that there they received revelation they received book Moses I don't know I forgot Moses peace be upon him is who received the Torah messenger give you a perfect example to really help you understand David's a messenger his son Solomon not not a messenger he followed the same book that his father okay so are they prophets their prophets I don't see how you're a smart person this has nothing to do the topic you're a smart person just because so you're you're you can be just because you've got a bachelor's degree it doesn't mean you have a PhD doesn't know so you should be able to you

2:10:40should be able to grab hold to that analogy okay don't make faces I doesn't know how does it does that make sense to you that one is a prophet he fought he did not receive revelation okay okay all right so what's the ingeal let's go back to the actual topic the ingeal is the revelation that was revealed to Jesus peace be upon him issa lay salam is it in my Bible I have no idea what portions of it is true okay and I and I do know that for a long time the Trinity was not in the ingeal is the ingeal in my Bible portions of it yes I would I think it's safe to say I think it's safe to say that portions of the ingeal is in the new testament so it's good to is the Quran confirming the ingeal not the new testament though you can't get someone asked I don't care what you asked I don't care either now here's the problem you have here though so do I have the ingeal or not

2:11:42you have portions of it okay where's the Quran say I have portions of it it's been corrupted and here we go where's the Quran say my ingeal has been corrupt here we go no you don't have to ingeal I don't have it now so I so yes no no yes I have let's go let's go Quran surah 4 I got 171 so believe in a law in his messengers and say not three desist it is better for you indeed a law is only one God then what does that have to do with anything what are you talking about that has to do with the Trinity okay why don't you read can you read surah 4 136 now so no what do you have to say about surah 4 171 let's contradict my scriptures but confirming them that's the problem no you said that there's nothing in there that says that that says that this is corrupted yeah and this is saying this is this is direct so say right saying desist so believe in a law in his messengers and say not three okay where's it say that's in my scriptures uh who do you think we

2:12:47talking to are we really playing this game I'm asking a question where does it say that's in my scriptures and they have certainly disbelieved who say a law is third of three there is no deity except one God Quran 5 73 I don't say a law is a third of three that's not the Trinity so the it's the cross making an error there if it's talking about the Trinity that's what you doubt either heresy of partialism and then and then uh so the Quran's an error so and one of the most one of the most famous which is the third of the Quran it class yes cool who a law who a heart I know you know this a law who's some art lamya lid will lamb you lad will lamb you a kula who kufu one a heart the audience needs English here we go say he is a law a law is eternal in absolute a law does not be get it nor is he be gotten and there is none like unto him great where's the Quran say that's correcting things in my

2:13:52scriptures i don't a common sense tells me for those of you who believe and here's the thing what you're doing because we already know that issa alay salam jesus for the crowd says that the father is greater than i so of course we confirm that because we know that the father is you confirm john 14 what is john 14 the whole that's where that's from that that verse reciting so what else is in it that that says does it have the Trinity in it? it jesus says i am the way the truth in the life no one comes to the father except for me he who has seen me has seen the father in john 14 every prophet believes that they believe they're the way the truth in the life absolutely so is mahamid the way the truth in the life absolutely okay this is shirk what is shirk shirk is associating partners with a lot no you just attributed two names of a lot they just gave you to a mahamid they just showed you the definition of shirk is mahamid not

2:14:53call the truth he is the truth okay he is alameen so you just gave a name of a lot to mahamid in jesus that's shirk man you know how many brothers i have that are named abdu'a Rahim that's not the argument what are you talking about you can are they the truth are they the most gracious most merciful absolutely not okay exactly because they're not a lot you cannot attribute names of a lot of creations you don't so first of all you're not muslim so you don't know how this works how i do know how works you don't i do don't so so what does putting what does putting abdu'a abdu'a before Rahim that what does that do what does Rahim mean i asked you a question is Rahim you don't get to answer a question what is what i guess it does it's in part of the part of the engagement what does putting abdu'a before Rahim or Rahim al-rahim it's Rahim that's different that's not the name of a law Rahim is in the name of a law al-rahim is you making my point exactly who do you know name

2:15:58al-rahim only a law according to Islam great so it's Jesus but what about abdu'a Rahim is Muhammad the way the truth in the life Muhammad Salah la wa Salam is the Uswahah sonata perfect example is either way the truth in the life any prophet just like that's just like when when Moses peace be upon i don't know if y'all have the story of kidder and Moses in the in the bible when Moses was axed who's the most wisest person he assumed him because he received revelation because he was at that time Rasulullah a messenger of God why aren't you answering my question and running talking about Moses can you be the truth what do you mean so hold on you which i'm within the topic okay you just said Muhammad is the truth why what do you mean the truth he's the trustworthy that's not what i asked well i don't care what you ask you i'm telling you who

2:17:04Elimine is he is he is a trustworthy he was Elimine before he even received revelation that's nothing to do with my question can you be the truth no so i'm regardless to what you can you can't try to make me put Muhammad on the same level but you already can't know i haven't deified you said he's the truth last deified when i came into islam i said a shadow a la ilaha illa law why shadow anda Muhammad a rahsulu law i bear witness that there is nothing worthy of worship except God then you can and i bear witness that Muhammad is his messenger then you agree that Muhammad can't be the truth he cannot have one of the 99 names of a law so no i don't agree because you don't know nothing about muslims i just explained to you how muslims get to take on first of all you should strive for those attributes those are attributes they're not names though they are name isn't at do you have to give an attribute a name sir i'm talking about that you're trying to

2:18:06change the subject no no do you not change no subject yes no okay isn't actually you have to name something just like Adam not Adam had to name every animal we're not doing this we're doing the topic that's what this is the topic the topic is the islamic dilemma which you have not even nearly addressed i like that you turning red now john 14 you agree john 14 you get me you manifest in over there oh good all right now you know i can't change you believe the Quran is confirming john 14 right so listen bro we we you answer the question i don't know all of john 14 but you excited it you said that you cited the verse john 14 but i'm on topic okay so is the Quran confirming stuff in my Bible certain things i can agree with you on where's the Quran saying certain things where's the Quran say that what do you mean where's the Quran say i'm confirming certain things in your Bible you can't play no words specification games with me it also says that there's corrupt that

2:19:06that there has been you know what the do you want to do you understand what the miracle of the Quran chapter and verse where's it say you understand what the Camaro there is no miracle the Quran is just air of poetry there is the you the miracle of the Quran is that it can't be corrupted like the Torah and the end of the Bible no no that can be corrupted it can't be corrupted no neither can the prayers if someone says say al-Fatiha and i say and i say Bismillahirrahmanirrahim al-Humdulillahirrah bella al-Miyyin wa-La'zir they're gonna say sapan ala' so the Quran is accurate sapan ala' so the Quran is accurate absolutely so then why is it confirming corrupted scriptures according to you it's not confirming it's confirming the in the original in jihl revealed to to your prophet jesus peace be upon what is seura 241 say and it's confirming it's confirming the Torah revealed to moussa al-A'z al-A'z al-A'z al-Moses where's it say that what do you mean seura 241 says bina yadahi confirming what is between your hands that would be the scriptures they had in the seven centuries this is 1400 1500 years yeah in the cromin in error

2:20:1114 or years ago bro it's talking it names the in jihl so that doesn't change my argument it doesn't name the compilation what you can't force me you know what if if there was some led zeppelin songs that i like you can't force me to to to to say that the ones that you pick and put on a best of led zeppelin album that i'm i'm saying oh you said you said you like led zeppelin you you you're confirming that you like these no i don't like the songs that you picked mm-hmm i don't like the ones that you pick and you left out some of the best ones notice you qualified that entire statement by saying that you're leaving some out where does the Quran say that huh where's the Quran say you already went over that with you right show me what are you talking about show me one verse it says my scriptures are corrupted i just read it no you didn't what are you talking about so led zeppelin's in the Quran because you just want to buy led zeppelin let's get the final statements and there's nothing in our script i just

2:21:12read it to you there's nothing in our scriptures no matter what no matter what at the end of the day a law is not Jesus peace be upon him when i read to you it class say he is a law the one a law is eternal and absolute he begeteth not and he is not begotten and there is none like unto him and when i tell you that the Quran you couldn't say nothing you won't you still haven't responded to a law saying desist in saying three desist are you done i'm asking i can't desist i cannot desist in believing the trinity because the bible teaches the trinity and the Quran tells me to believe in my scriptures oh so you're a five sixteen oh you got to believe in that this is my closing statement oh my bad yeah so you're a five six eight says oh people of the book you have nothing to stand on unless you observe the Torah the gospel and what has been revealed to you from your

2:22:13Lord what has been revealed to me is the bible that teaches the trinity therefore i have to believe in the bible therefore the Quran is pointing me to scriptures that it thoroughly contradicts and teaches me to reject Islam therefore Islam is a false religion teaching things that are false pointing people to scriptures it thoroughly contradicts whoever wrote the Quran had no clue what they were doing this is not from God that is what the facts are you know what's funny as you told that brother that if a hundred people came to you and say something about your father you'd have to believe him i'd say that'd be good corroborating evidence good corroborating evidence but the fact that the three Abrahamic religions at one point in time all three of them preach the unity of God the brotherhood of all these prophets the one things that all these prophets have in common is that they preach the unity of one guy but you don't believe that oh yes i do yeah you don't know the Trinity do you i don't understand the confusion other than

2:23:18you know believe in one god you have to you believe in one god yeah so tell me it is who who who was Jesus praying to when we talked about the father but he was praying to himself that's not the Trinity so you don't understand the Trinity you just who was that in totalism who was married praying to before she even had Jesus the father God are they so so you telling me explain the Trinity to me this is not no do you think you're shrugging your shoulders and getting upset do you think the Trinity is modalism do you know what these things are i'm asking you okay because i know i know the difference between one and three you see this this is one this is two this is three how many attributes is a law have 99 yeah or he or the attribute him huh or is or the attributes a lot or they distinct from a law man he laws he did you just hear me you're not sure he didn't want to show the laws eternal and absolute yeah you can't you can't comprehend the law even your own scholars did this bit debate over if the a law is the 99 attributes or if he's distinct for them because

2:24:22they are not a law but they are also not separate from a law this is a whole mess oh can't what you didn't heard from some scholar your scholar a law man listen a law is the most merciful the most gracious the off forgiving and the best of deceivers well no he's that's not one of his you giving him a hundred actually there's three and here's the thing so since you since you say to know so much regardless you so you can't get me off my square and i pray and i pray for you because i'm not gonna stoop to that good try but i'm instructed to argue in the best of ways so all the stuff and all the stuff about that in the crown that to argue in the best of ways yes man it says that in the crown you know that i heard you i heard 2946 i don't need to i know it what does it say also in that verse valley cucky tabo rabuffee who died little moota game this is a book of guidance long as i'm rightfully guided you just went to a verse that you we use for

2:25:23these llama telema so we're 2946 you're to say to me i believe in your first of all you're interrupting me again he's interrupting me well where's most of me done and you're still going well well well i'm still going again we same time we first baby you don't get to get the last league not with me all right you can get the last word man but you did not solve these llama telema go ahead i did i did because one of the things like i said you sat here and said that if it was if it was overwhelming or corroborating evidence that you would submit you wouldn't even submit to the brother when he he kindly asked you but as i'm stating you have you use tactics that you shouldn't be proud of like calling god calling a law subhanahuat ala some evil spirit in a cave or whatever i'm sure you offended all your Arab Christian brothers and sisters uh because they call god a law yeah uh do you have any words none of that at anything to do with addressing my

2:26:25points it's man i did you just you just you you can't concede he can't you're not humbling up to concede when you when you when you're wrong just let him go because he's not going to stop talking unless he has the last word you can't concede bro but i'm glad i got to see you change colors that's what white people do man we change colors it happens all the time i don't think it happens all the time i think it happens to people who are calm cool and collected you're not being calm cool man you've been yelling at me the whole time oh no i'm good man uh they just had a they just had a hostile situation yesterday that's a hostile situation all right i don't think nobody worried about me coming across the table on all right well thank you guys thank you very much for this debate so just a quick correction earlier i talked about lot being not a prophet in the bible and you're saying he's a bad man and bad immoral example sure about that he said immoral example you're sure about that yeah how come the new testament to second Peter's ask it calls him a right just a faith i write to his man what what second Peter are you gonna get on topic you're gonna just keep

2:27:29running no no just just a correction please put a fact check on on the screen later on just just yeah this is just a uh side note don't worry about these lamekul lemma i'm not i'm actually here to the talk about the Islamic day lama um but so you don't want to correct that part are you gonna actually you gonna correct that but it's okay you say i was wrong he's running man i'm i'll get done by just put the check fact the fact up there um all right so the Islamic dilemma or the Christian confusion as i call it is an internal critique right it's a modified internal critique modified yeah of course is modified yeah my the Christian scripture so you have to modify arguments multiple times to make to make this kind of arguments anyway uh so the internal critique right it says that the Quran confirms the bible where does it say the bible says our scriptures where does it say the bible it says our scripture it doesn't say our scripture it your scripture so it doesn't say bible right it says it's confirming what is the scriptures what is

2:28:29the scriptures according to the Quran what is with us yeah and what is that what the Quran only talks about two kinds of scriptures what is that no no yeah the Torah the Zabor and the gospel three things yes sorry i forgot the Zabor but we we don't mention that a lot so according to the Quran we got the injil and we got the Torah and we got a explanation and a description to this to revelations right what we got it we got a description of these two revelations so the injil is what was given to Jesus and the Torah is what was given to Moses right okay where are you going like what's your point you guys don't have that that's my point we said we don't have the Torah in the okay then let's go back to seara 7157 does it not say i can find Muhammad in my Torah and gospel no it doesn't say not in yours it literally says you can find they can find the unletter prophet in their Torah and gospel no it doesn't say it says mechTube an endome it says their Torah and gospel yeah so it doesn't say like the the thing you have right now do you have the same thing that

2:29:34used to have in the the 7th century Arabia according to yeah yeah we according to yeah okay so this is talking about like for example during the time of the the prophet peace be upon him when this verse was revealed we had actually companions who found they had actually other scriptures and they you know other manuscripts of the Torah and the the injil and they found the description of the prophet salar said in it and then they converted so you're saying the Torah in the gospel are different lost works no i'm saying the the thing you call today the the Torah and the injil is not the same thing that that has it before you're saying always the same thing are you saying the the real Torah and injil are different lost books that we don't have today different lost books yeah so no originally it is the revelation that was given to the prophets okay but later later those for example what are you considered today as a injil what what are you considered today as an injil as a

2:30:34gospel the teachings of Jesus oh where is that it's in my Bible it's in the four gospels okay I so it's not marked my throat and jaw right those are the gospels the gospel message is what Jesus preached and that is preserved in the four gospels all right so that's the biography of Jesus those are biographies right and then within it you will find the teachings of Jesus is that the injil according to you yeah okay so I do have the injil yeah part of it not the whole thing okay but I have the injil in my Bible it's a red letters of Jesus not all of it then what is the injil well the injil again it's a revelation that was given to the the prophet but it's corrupt at the same time okay so why is your Quran confirming corrupted scriptures it's a general confirmation where's it say that do you understand the general confirmation where is it say it doesn't have to say it doesn't have to say it doesn't have to say you have to understand for example when you say that I want to hear you say this then say I confirm the Bible what would I confirm the Bible because it's just a general confirmation to say it yeah okay I confirm Bible so you you believe in the Bible not all of it

2:31:35yeah no okay so then notice you had to qualify your own words betray you you cannot just say you you cannot just say I can from the Bible without qualifying it yeah but because that's a given it's in the context okay so we're in the context as a show when the Quran is confirming my scriptures it's qualifying it so because the Quran is the same time it makes corrections to the to the for example the stories that you find within the gospels and the Torah all the Old Testament show me one place where the Quran says it's correcting the scripture it's not gonna say I'm gonna correct it I just does it so it doesn't say it it doesn't have to do it to say it well which one is more real like for example me saying in five minutes I'm gonna go up and make some coffee or in five minutes I actually go up and make the coffee which one is more real what what I don't know what you mean of course you don't so this is when the Quran no the Quran says just make it for example the Quran just goes and talks about the previous prophets and their stories yeah just correct it I just say the correcting the scriptures it's not gonna say it doesn't okay so it doesn't

2:32:36it doesn't but it says it's confirming my scriptures yes does it say general confirming it does say it doesn't say does the Quran say it's clear so the Quran does the Quran say it's clear yeah it's okay so the Quran says it's clear but it and then it says it's confirming my scriptures it doesn't say it's correcting that's the Islamic dilemma you can see that all the points there's nothing to do the Islamic it does or all the points of the dilemma you miss understanding so the Quran says yes it explains everything perfectly the you know when it comes to the things you have to understand but there is other vague verses that you need like for example scholars and people would good knowledge you understand those those verses I mean thanks for putting a contradiction in the Quran I'm not a contradiction no there's the size of verses and there is a you have the Quran up verses do you be chron up I got some verses read 0111 just just just some order it says the verses of the Quran are perfected and then fully explained yeah and when it comes to the did belief when it comes to the theology doesn't say that doesn't have to say it again like every time this context that goes with it and there's exegesis so the Quran doesn't have to say things no it's

2:33:39not going to explain everything perfectly do you mean you say like everything you mean like like literally everything like how I don't know the world works and the how wi-fi works and everything like that no no you want to say everything in the Quran is supposed to be detailed and fully explained according to sewer 111 sewer 1211 great I mean it's great we're gonna come say theology there's no concurrent so when it tells me it says in sewer 568 oh people of the book you nothing to stand on unless you observe the Torah the gospel in what has been revealed to you from your Lord I'm supposed to observe my scripture Zen because what's been revealed to me is the Bible and what was the last part you said I'm supposed to observe the Bible because that's what before that before that and what was revealed to you from your Lord what is that it's whatever was real to you what on nice where's it say that does that was clear so it doesn't have to say it oh I guess it's not clear it's it's actually it's not clear is it clear or not clear it is clear for everybody who's who's because so it's not clear it is clear because when you read that obviously if you there is actually something we'll call it the reason of the revelation if you read that

2:34:41you have more context right we have something had called Hadith authentic Hadith and the reason of the revelation the revelation that explains why this verse was even uh uh uh uh uh uh uh revealed does 568 say Quran it doesn't have to say does it say it so what's the what's the third question doesn't have to say it again so it doesn't it doesn't okay so it's not clear okay it's not going to say and the Quran I said what and what was revealed to you great that's more than the Quran what is the third revelation that the Quran is talking about it doesn't say it's the Quran on itself okay the problem is with this Christian apologist is that if you read all scripture with this retardant mindset you're not going to understand anything what are you talking about uh uh the Bible doesn't say it's clear fully detailed and then its verses are perfected and then well and then fully explained your Quran does therefore I can go the clear plain reading of the Quran so when it tells me to use the Torah the gospel and what has been revealed to me from my Lord that would be my Bible and I can combine them with the Quran what would be the Quran which is the the the criterion that you have to use to differentiate between so wait if something's a criterion

2:35:45what does that mean is something that you use as a differentiator or a criteria to differentiate between what's right and what's wrong what's the Torah law the Torah law like linguistically well what is what is the Torah what what is that like you mean the content yes so the content would be whatever was revealed to the uh to Moses okay the Quran says in surah 253 in 2148 the Torah is the for Khan the criterion so therefore I can use the Torah as the criterion okay great no yes I can't doing doing the time of Moses yes so during the time of Moses it doesn't have to say it again because you have the corrupted version of the Quran it doesn't have to say it again so you have to take no you have to take the whole thing holistically you cannot just share a pick uh a couple of verses and say oh this is what it means so yes according to the Quran uh during the time of Moses peace be upon the Torah at his time was the criterion so during the time of a Jesus the same thing the the the injeal was the criterion and so during the time of Muhammad peace be upon

2:36:45the Quran was the criterion over the what over the other scripture where does the Quran say the criterion over the prayer scriptures 45 no it doesn't say that 48 sorry sorry 48 no does it say that there are five 48 states supreme authority over all scriptures what's the word there what's the word here about uh Muhammad okay so it's not for Khan so it's not criterion there's multiple words for that a for Khan means it's differentiated this is even actually this is more explicit 540 edgy says Muhammad and Ali meaning supreme authority over all the means of supreme authority it does it does show me one classical toughs here where it means that what do you mean it's it's I'll show me one classical toughs here where Muhammad means supreme authority there's a the toughs here of ibn kethir if I remember one of them does it does it does it does it or ibn kethir says it's ibn kethir says that it is correct in meaning to say that Muhammad is the mahaman over the Quran doesn't say that yes he does okay we check that check fact check that actually you can fact it's it's catch for for for for the not not right away word muhaim here we go

2:37:51yeah it is thank you yeah means witness guardian trustworthy authority does not mean supreme authority i'm not saying Muhammad only Muhammad Ali he Muhammad over uh yes there's multiple words for that specific we're showing me one scholar that translate mohaman as criterion or supreme authority so mohaman Ali you just said that's mohaman for the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him it's they're pointing at the yeah it's the ibn kethir i'm not going to read that so ibn kethir and mujahed agreed that Muhammad was the mahaman over the Quran is he a supreme authority over the speech of Allah yeah so that i checked that actually he doesn't say that you've been no he don't say halihi say lehu you know he says mujah no yeah he does he says this is correct in meaning when he's commenting on mujahed that's that's fine but muhaimin and lehu or muhaimin and alaihi is but completely different that he is uh he uses the Quran as an authority for him not uh that not that the problem hamza lesson is uh a muhaimin over the Quran i know ibn kethir doesn't think that's

2:38:54what the verse is saying but when he's commenting on mujahed he says this is correct in meaning therefore the Quran he can say that the mahaman truly is a guardian aka muhaimin over the Quran no not over four okay that doesn't change anything i'm saying it does it does because the Quran can use then the Quran is just a guardian of the prayer scriptures no that means that Muhammad peace be upon can use the Quran as a guidance for him not over does it change anything it does the meaning completely changing so is is the Quran a muhaimin for the prayer scriptures over the verse he's saying now you're changing it no because he in the mean and he says that what the Quran what does the verse says it does it says four or over it says it's a guardian over the man over there you go what does the guardian do guardian over meaning it has more authority on the other scripture that's not what a guardian it does no a guardian does not mean correct is not mean showing what's corrupt it means it's protecting it against the Jews and Christians which interpret again if you take the guardian alone i'm saying uh the the full two words says muhaimin alaihi right so

2:39:56a supreme authority over this is doesn't mean supreme so you jump back to that you've not just it does you can you can check uh ibnukhethi or you can check a quarter of your office so it does five for me it does say that does five forty eight also say it's confirming our scriptures yes the uh the inside why is the confirming what does it confirm me what does it confirm me confirm general why me generally what does the word confirm me when you when you mean confirm me to prove to prove something is true yes okay so the Quran is proving our scriptures true while being a guardian over them okay all right so then there's the Islamic dilemma thank you no but at the same time the Quran says it is corrupted where show me what i want to know the verse all right so the Quran multiple time it says that the uh Jews corrupted the textual corruption of the old scripture and they're already where uh so that's going to be 279 what is 279 say um i don't know the verse okay can we hold it up to go up to if you want i don't have my phone just up here just just just google 275 i'm gonna ask you guys get into your closing arguments all right so

2:40:57so it's 279 is talking about the Talmud actually it's not 10 mood 279 is talking about the Talmud the Talmud yeah you know why uh because in the following verse it's it quotes it refers to something in rasha shana 17a it's not referring to anything in the Torah so it's saying they substitute at the book of Allah with the Talmud and then you know what happens right after that it doesn't take a time with all in sir 285 it says believe you know it says are you rejecting part of the book believing at all and then in sir 291 once again it's confirming our scriptures confirming the Torah so all the two seventy nine contacts is talking about the Talmud not the Torah okay so the Quran in this verse we can all verse it doesn't say the Torah nor the Talmud but it says a scripture that the uh Jews had originally was given to to to Moses and they textually corrupted it and they it's not that's not all uh the Quran also said they're orally corrupted it in 378 I have this one actually if I find it or is orally corrupting changing the text yes absolutely you know why you're changing the Bible absolutely you know why because back then okay laugh at if you want to

2:41:58laugh you can laugh but let me explain the Bible and do exist in the Bible and stop like you know you don't do this anyway uh so yes orally if if the priest back then or the uh scribes orally corrupt meaning when they go go out for example I preach something to the people to the layman they didn't have access to the those scriptures so whatever he said the the the priest or the the scribes said back then was considered the truth and then later the people are gonna repeat that same thing and that's how the oral corruption happens it doesn't have to be you know uh textual only and then later the Quran in 513 he says it was also corrupted by the interpretation they will they would beg for example take the correct uh uh uh uh revelation the true revelation and then they were uh uh corrupt the interpretation of it that's 513 uh not that not just that but they were hiding and losing scripture on purpose in 691 it says about it says the same thing about this 371 says the same thing they were hiding and then read the following verse two

2:43:02691 and 692 together I got I only have 691 you can okay let's read this together then 6 so it was 691 to 92 I think this is important to read here okay so it says and they have not shown Allah his proper reverence when they said Allah has revealed nothing uh nothing to any human say o prophet who then revealed the book brought forth by Moses as light and guidance for people which you split into separate sheets revealing some and hiding much you have been taught through the Quran uh what neither you nor your fore those foretellers foretellers new say o prophet allow revealed it then leave them to him use themselves with falsehood so he's saying allow revealed it and it's just saying they are hiding parts of it but they still have that so Allah is confirming that no no he's just telling it to use to stop hiding it 513 same thing it's about changing things from their places so they're twisting it with their tongues as the Quran says in surah 3 for example no where does it say our scriptures that are corruption no no that's corruption actually that what's they doing is a corruption again with their tongues yeah with their tongues as they just explained

2:44:06right when they can corrupt that with the time that people can take that if I read from the bible and I twist what it says that I corrupt the text of the bible not itself but thank you unless unless unless if you lose that on purpose as well which is the uh versus that I quoted after that so the Quran only talks about oral corruption then right no sexual oral and the interpretation not one of textual corruption the the first one I just read the 217 to 179 about the Talmud it's not a Talmud that you own interpretation give me one one Qasqa scholar who said that to Talmud because of the following verse is referring to the Talmud it's not referring to the something that they say they show me the Torah where it says that some people will not be in the fire permanently we don't have the we're yeah exactly it's on the Torah yeah we don't have the Torah today okay you think you have everything that was revealed so why is he saying our scriptures are corrupted and in the same chapter saying he's confirming our corrupted script it's a general final points fine points I'll go ahead I'll finish with this so it's a general confirmation obviously you guys do not understand the difference between general uh confirmation and absolute confirmation so when the Quran says yes it confirms uh the Bible

2:45:10doesn't mean every single little verse or word that you can find in Matthew Mark look in general for example it's not gonna confirm John 11 and all the uh fairy tales and ridiculous stuff that you find in there uh I didn't I didn't talk about 9 1094 which is the base of uh this so-called Islamic and actually I actually have something else to talk about you you asked me multiple times where does he where does it say that I am going to uh generally confirm what you have right well we have actually hadith all the private peace p upon him you can find this in death at Dar Al-Mantor if it's F. C. Al-Mantor this so you know this in Arabic but I can give you the one in in in in English so the private peace p upon him there were multiple people so okay so the Hadith goes like this some people came to him the buns of Jews came to the private peace p upon him and asked him all prophet do you not claim that you follow the religion of A. Abraham and his faith and that you believe in what we have of the Torah Torah and that you

2:46:17testify that it is truth it is the truth from Allah listen to the prophet peace p upon him uh answer to this he said yes he says literally says yes to that but you have introduced innovation and denied what is in it of the covenant that was taken from you so the the the private peace p upon literally saying yes I am going to uh do the general you know correction and consciously correct what you have in there you can see from it oh the last line of the Hadith he's just man I also you said you can see it from it what you can see it so they have it but they're just concealing it no a part of that they can they have it though but they're just concealing it right like the the Torah yeah but they also introduced innovation so that's a corrupted they added to that where's it say they added to the text innovation right there yeah but you have but you have introduced innovation too that's scripture so now you have where does it say the innovation was added into the text literally says it but but you have introduced innovation it says innovation how though to the Torah like for example can you do

2:47:20can you do it in the night of its early sexual or whatever you can do innovation early right what are you talking about you innovation or they're talking the ask about the Torah and he said you introduced innovation to it now it's mixed up with the Torah right and then they hit and and and they'll say innovation you get out when you say the you introduced innovation that's all you says to do to what read it again what are we talking about read it again what the what is the book that read his response again the prophet peace be up on said yes but you have introduced innovation and denied what yeah but what's what's the Torah we're talking about the Torah the Jews are asking about the Torah you've introduced innovation that's all what doesn't say to anything doesn't the Torah we're talking about the tower like you can be like this low IQ dude like you can do to calm down man okay I'm going on what it actually says I'm team Allah team Muhammad you're the one who's adding innovation to the text by saying it says innovation to it now this is just I already changing the hadith no we're talking about this is hadith this is prophet peace be up I'm talking not me okay what doesn't say innovation to it does it innovation to what to the Torah doesn't

2:48:22say that it does literally it talks guys what the hell you said it says religion and denied so there the Jews came to the prophet peace be up and asked him about don't you believe in the Torah and he says yes but you introduced innovation to what does it say that to the Torah you just read it all right final statements make your final statement yeah just wrap wrap up all your thoughts all right fine so again yeah so the Islamic the elama is an inter critique unfortunately when you guys talk about the Islamic the elama you quickly jump to the into the understand you have about this scripture the Quran never mentions the Bible to begin with nowhere is mentioned like the the Bible is nowhere to be mentioned in the Quran Islam the Quran makes it you know very clear what the scripture that the Quran is talking about when it says oh probably go and ask those people who read the scriptures not talking about the Christians on the Jews because the Christian Jews are not to be trusted when it comes to the religion actually talks about the people who had background

2:49:27religious Jewish and Christian backgrounds that can be trusted with the religion can be trusted with the theology so you go and ask those people about those stories that 1094 we're talking about has nothing to do with the the the the Christians and the Jews who cannot be trusted with the theology to begin with of course they're going to say no of course they're going to lie about the religion you cannot be trusted anyway that is the interpretation of the 9 9 25 yeah okay so once again his own words betray him because he says he can't just say I confirmed the Bible without qualifying it in some way but that's what the Quran says about our scriptures believe in my revelations which confirming our scriptures unqualified wholesale therefore the Quran is confirming our scriptures and by the way the Quran does say Bible because just because it's not in English it's an Arabic right what's the word for Bible and Arabic Kitab were we the people of the Kitab so were the people of the Bible according to the Quran and it's confirming our scriptures therefore it's talking about the scriptures we possess five of places like six stars one this is closing statements you're done 691 241 291 285 again says we have to believe in all of it not just parts

2:50:30same with 691 to 692 as well so at the end of the day yeah the Islamic dilemmas stands can I have two seconds 10 seconds go for yeah yeah yeah sorry you just give him 10 seconds I need five seconds so Kitab Kitab in Arabic is book the Bible is al Kitab al Mourqad desh that's not doesn't work if you go to any Arabic they say the Kitab no that's fake yeah that's real you look that up thank you guys all right we're on the third prompt guys who are wants to go first you want us all right the Islamic dilemmas stands the Quran claims to confirm our scriptures while contradicting them I don't think there's a dilemma all right how not why not because the in Geo is not necessarily the whole Bible the in Geo is the Old Testament that was given to Jesus the Old Testament yes you mean the New Testament well I mean the Old the in Geo because it was given to Jesus so the new Testament didn't come till after Jesus so according to you the in Geo's the Old Testament yes okay who made the golden calf the Israelites no in the Bible it says erin did I mean they were in the

2:51:35Quran it says it's Samaritan did it was it was the it was the the Israelites it doesn't follow that doesn't fall into that group the Israelites it says it says two different people so the Bible says erin made the golden calf in the Old Testament the Quran says it was the Samaritan so which is correct in fact both but can't be correct that's the problem it's the Israelites that doesn't change anything yeah that's who did it it's comes from the Old Testament the Old Testament that was real my most old Aaron and says he didn't so it's a contradiction it specifically says yeah Aaron didn't do it the Samaritan did it so who made the golden calf sure or not Aaron the Israelites I wasn't there okay I'm just saying you agree the Old Testament contradicts the Quran no I don't think the Old Testament contradicts the Quran no just gave you an example you're using one thing that you've interpreted your way I think the Old Testament is what was given to Jesus that's the in Geo that's the in Geo that's the gospel that's the in Geo so what's the Torah then the Old Testament

2:52:36so I'm not saying the whole Bible is wrong I'm saying majority of the Bible is correct majority so there's so there's some stuff wrong absolutely okay so why does the Quran claim to confirm scriptures it says that you think it has errors in why does it repeat it again why does the Quran claim to confirm scriptures that you say has errors in I'm not I'm not saying this you say I want to hear I want to hear it in statements terms like it's simple go ahead you agree the Bible had you you would say the Bible has errors in it correct okay the Quran says believe in my revelations which confirm your scriptures is the Bible not my scripture but it's been corrupted majority of the Bible majority of it in which in which Bible are we talking about because that's second order the dilemma because the problem is here that the Bible has been changed a lot of it is true the majority of it I would say Old Testament everything that goes before that that's correct and that's what our basis of our morality is is set on is Old Testament do you agree with that now

2:53:37the 10 Commandments and all this stuff these aren't like that says the whole Bible huh I say the basis of our Western morality is the whole Bible no I don't think so at all okay well that's a relevant but morality is based the Bible is really starts it picks up right where the Old Testament leaves off correct yes or no wait so that again the Bible right the New Testament picks up from the Old Testament it came first right it's order right and there's a 700 year gap almost 600 year gap from the Bible really like 400 years because it was written so far after Jesus I want to talk about the dilemma though okay and the dilemma here is that we're not saying your whole Bible is wrong we're saying there's a lot of parts of it that are not correct because it was re it was reinterpreted by man okay so you would say my Bible is corrupt I don't know what Bible you read but yeah okay I'm sorry why does the Quran tell me to judge excuse me by the gospel to stand on my scriptures that it's confirming my scriptures because majority of those scriptures are correct but then it's confirming all of them but then but then but then the scriptures

2:54:41have been changed since the Quran where's the Quran say that it has been it's not the King James version all this didn't come after the Quran the Quran does assume that it is that's why that's why the Quran came that's why Muhammad came because we had veered off so far from the path and worshipping idols and everything that the Muhammad came and that was the that's this is this is the three point all religion and what is the Quran's reason I as a Christian should believe in the Quran because it's a very specific reason because it's been corrupted no no what is the Quran's reason I should believe in the Quran tell me since you were two forty one believe in my revelations I either Quran which confirm your scriptures so I as a Christian am supposed to believe in the Quran because it's confirming my scriptures yes and then your scriptures have been changed that's what we've been saying the whole time that's the exact opposite can refer means to prove something is true so so at the time at the time at the time your scriptures majority were true they've been changed they've been rewritten there's how many different versions of the Bible where does it say this in the Quran I'm saying in history right now the fact the fact that the Bible has been changed

2:55:46so the Quran is wrong no the Quran is not wrong the Quran is claiming that my scriptures are true the original scriptures are true where does it say original I mean what are we talking about we got to put every word behind it no this is the scripture there wasn't there wasn't different like you know why because the Quran in seer 121 says it's clear in seer 121 11 it says it's detailed and in seer 111 it says the verses are perfected and fully explained and this has been changed and and the majority of what they're talking about is the old testament but it doesn't say majority nowhere is the Quran it claims to be clear doesn't say majority of the 77 books in the Bible 66 I think according to the Protestant Bible 66 of them are correct 66 books in the Bible are correct yeah in the in in in in in the Bible not not all it's it's 77 we're not arguing that the whole Bible is wrong that's never been the argument right so if I go as simple as to say something simple as this right some of the as simple as this if names were changed in the Bible what else was changed could I ask a question real quick and interrupt you guys you guys you said 65 or okay you're saying

2:56:47there 65 what what is the one what is the one that's bad yeah what what in my Bible is corrupt let's start there look let's just start with the names of the people the names are changed so let's be more European so to peace more to the white man that's a translation what about the actual the no no the translation I've never okay Matthew let me say Matthew's not in the Bible name is Matthias John is not in the Bible it's Johanen okay very Mark and Johanen and so so the names have been changed no there's transliterations that's a change that's a transliteration my name is Natter and Arabic is Natter in English there's not been transliterated but both names are but what I'm saying is that the names have been changed right just translate if any well why are they translated that's why the crown is written in Arabic let me let me let me let the crown is written in Arabic so there's no misunderstanding of any names or anything in there everybody is correct everything is perfect that's why it is the perfect book so when I read I can read in Quran translations it says John and you have to trust you have to trust a person that wrote

2:57:51the translate the Quran you have to trust it huh when they translate the Quran it shouldn't be it shouldn't be but that's why it's preferably read in Arabic so that's why it's read in Arabic because there's losses in translation so the translation according to you is corrupted when it changes the name to John in Suhrit 3 39 I'm saying the Bible we're talking about the Bible and we're talking about the ingeal right right and we're saying the ingeal okay and I'm saying that majority of the Bible is correct because majority of it is the Old Testament and things from them have been changed show me where the Quran like I don't I don't think Jesus crucified I don't think that the prophets before Jesus believed in a Trinity I don't think my Abraham Moses Noah I don't think any of these people believed in a Trinity until Jesus came where does the Quran claim to partially confirm my scriptures where does it partially confirm where does it claim to partially wait you just said it it said that the verses before in the gospel pull okay the gospel doesn't necessarily mean the whole Bible no I said Suhrit 241 says believe in my revelations which confirm your scriptures confirm your

2:58:54scriptures yes and okay so it confirms them not all of them okay do you confirm the Quran yes do you confirm the Bible no there you go see you can't say because because the Quran the Quran was written before these Bibles that have come out and it's my foot you cannot say I confirm the Bible because you know that would be saying you're saying it's true but the Quran says it's confirming my scriptures therefore your own words betray you because the Quran is using that language to talk about my and since and since the Quran there's been many more Bible scriptures written that's the Quran's problem that mine no that's your problem no your problem my scripture hasn't been touched then my can't provide my scriptures have never been tampered with you should read your Hadeeth they have been you keep going back to the Deeth and I'm a man of the Quran okay doesn't change I'm just being real like just because a scholar tells me this about Christianity that's his interpretation I'm not going to go follow everything that Joel Olstein says because he's the man of God and that's I'm not going to buy that and this has nothing to do with no but but what I'm saying is you're

2:59:55saying all scriptures no matter when they were written because the Quran said that the scriptures are correct that no matter when they were written passed after the Quran that they're all so supposed to be followed I'm not I'm not I'm grading the seven century ones the Bible of the seven century okay and it was not all correct it was not all correct I think I think I think there I think there is a pure Bible I think somewhere that that that book has been lost that there's a pure Bible it's been lost and that is the Bible or the gospel that the Quran speaks of why is the Quran confirming corrupted scriptures it's corrupted why because man has corrupted it man man put man put things in there to control society why would the Quran confirm that then why would it can because that's what it is so why would the Quran confirm corrupted scriptures it's not confirming those scriptures it's confirming the scriptures that are correct the Old Testament the Ingeal all that is because the Ingeal is given to Jesus correct like like Quran yeah he was given to Jesus so Christianity in the Bible came the way after Jesus now when it was the Bible written after Jesus how long ago first century so Jesus did Jesus write the Bible in a hundred years I

3:00:59barely remember what happened yesterday with all the fiasco that was going on yesterday I can barely remember all that so a hundred years people have died and came and went and told the story that they were heard from somebody else that's that's not going to be accurate okay so did I saw that I saw that I caught the fish the fish was this big when I when we really find out the fish so did the Christians have a Bible in the seven century yeah okay why is the Quran confirming that why is the Quran can because there was a Bible in the seven century so the Quran is confirming corrupted scriptures the Bible the there's there's many many different versions of the Bible even in the seventh century there was different versions of the Bible there just was there you you're saying from from the first century to the seventh century it never was changed so the Quran is basically confirming whatever we have then the Quran confirms the correct Bible where I don't know where the correct Bible is that's why that's why that's why Muhammad came where does it Quran say I'm confirming the correct scriptures you keep worrying about the word before the word before Bible before scripture and you keep trying to emphasize on that original corrected no there

3:02:01is an original Bible that I believe the scriptures are correct okay so we're I think I think I think I think I'm just confirming that original no it says I'm confirming the scripture yeah exactly it doesn't mean all future scriptures from now it doesn't mean any of that it means the scriptures at this moment in the correct Bible wherever that is wherever the correct Bible is which I don't believe any of us in this room have ever seen the Arabic of seer 241 is tell me by night you're day he that means what is with us what is between two hands literally correct so the scriptures the Jews and Christians have so it's the scriptures they have the Quran is claiming to confirm which you said are corrupted yes because not all the scriptures that the Jews and the Christians had at the time are correct so that it's confirming corrupted scriptures no yes it is it's saying that there's an original scripture that's correct it's saying that there's an original scripture that is correct it says by the gate okay I don't know what was it between their hands you were there no neither was I okay but I don't know I don't know what I don't know what we're reading I don't know what we're reading okay okay you might be holding the Bible might be a playboy magazine inside of it I don't know what I don't know what problem now mine how would that be the Quran how would that be the

3:03:06Quran's one we you have to understand as Muslims we don't have a problem with our Quran we have no problem with our Quran all the Muslims here but that's what we're here talking about yeah you can't tell me you don't care and we're here talking about it because you care enough to be here you care enough to be here so so the Quran the Quran is correct to us that's why there's so many Muslims we have blind faith in the Quran no question about it you have any real and you do too and you have blind faith you believe man you don't you don't have blind faith no a man was not killed and brought back to life that's not blind faith that's the most blind is faith up on my soul you on anybody was killed and brought back to life you took them full shit I haven't seven hundred percent I have a 700 page book on myself by Michael Kona call the resurrection of Jesus going over all the he was there no I don't have we don't believe in blind faith we have tons of evidence for Christianity but if you blame me so you so you scared for you man there's a bunch of blind faith I know I believe Muhammad went and traveled to the heavens and energy listen as a man of as a man here today you couldn't well you couldn't I couldn't tell you that you tell me I was hallucinating you can believe blindly all you want I choose to follow the evidence and the evidence so your evidence is making sure so so you

3:04:10believe that there's evidence that a man right now can turn water into wine yes he's alive he's king of the universe right now he's king of the universe yes Jesus is king hallelujah you're in your Bible and your Quran confirms that I believe Jesus is the man that sits right beside God okay I do really is he a partner with God no okay there's no partnership with God God doesn't let's get into the right hand of God I said he sent me a closing statement okay come on I believe the Bible was corrupted I believe that the prophets before Jesus believed in the secular one one God but not until Jesus came was there a Trinity or anything so Noah Moses Abraham all the prophets before them believed in one God you guys came whoever came corrupted the Bible corrupted and that's why the prophet was sent down here the prophet was sent here because man had been corrupted and every time man loses track we sent another God sends another prophet they had God has no partners so I don't believe that in the Bible when it says that there's a Trinity that

3:05:10so in the Trinity who would have came first is God has all knowing and all perfect he doesn't have to sit down and ask and debate anybody their opinion or ask anything because he knows everything so the chief reason for why Jews and Christians should believe in the Quran is because the Quran says over and over again like a broken record it's confirming our scriptures it tells Christians to judge by the gospel to stand on the tour of the gospel and what has been revealed to us from our Lord I as a Christian and following the Quran by that logic I'm following my scriptures which teach the Jesus died resurrected in a ton of foresens so by the Quran's own argument it's own laws it's own rules I have to believe in the scriptures that contradict the Quran and by that logic I have to reject the Quran and say it's a false book that's the Islamic dilemma and that's the problem so you're saying that what it says the Bible or the gospel or the books or everything you're saying that even after the Quran was written any books that come afterwards with the Bible on the book cover those are to be followed correctly all the Bible came before the Quran and any Bibles that have came after there is no one that came after just translate you have a

3:06:11schoolfield Bible that was made this century that's a translation that's a that's a that's a that's a version of the Bible a translation is a version right I use the Greek and the Hebrew in the air make so I don't know to your orthodox Christian your orthodox Christian use the Greek book all Christians go on what the original Greeks said but I'm saying you I today you guys have a schoolfield Bible floating around all in South America it's a translation man right and that's where the Bible gets corrupted is in the translation and the Quran is true the Quran has been corrupted because it's been translated not pretty accurate it's actually it's actually really accurate because it takes a scholar who to translate the Quran it's not me and you translating my Arabic that's the same with the Bible huh same with the Bible no yeah the Bible was written by kings what are you talking about the King James version he wanted the Bible is in it right the King James version but he he had his people write the book so scholars so it would be beneficial to his kingdom scholars of the day so it would be became beneficial to his kingdom so what so what I boo-bucker burned the Quran's because it was beneficial to his kingdom yes he did so he's very clear and tall you

3:07:16will keep going to the Hadith and we're going off the book the Bible the Torah and the in the Quran that's what we're going off of you keep going to Hadith I mean if I was going to go sit here and say you had crazy Christians in the last 200 years that have a crazy idea so you can't tell me just because this guy claims to be a man of God date he's a scholar and whatever he says goes that doesn't that argument is terrible any any final I will apply the same logic to the Quran in this translation sounds good okay all right thank you guys thanks all right so surah 241 says believe in my revelations which confirm your scriptures so I as a Christian am supposed to believe in the Quran because it's confirming my scriptures what does that mean so believe in sorry could you restate that one more time yep so I I do our Christian yes so to believe in the Quran because it's confirming my scriptures God is instructing Jews and Christians to believe in the Quran yes because it's confirming our scriptures that's what that verse is saying yes okay um it's to be fair that it's focusing on the Jews for there but it's there's other places in the Quran where it

3:08:19does 447 for example 7157 but same idea yeah um I don't know I'm actually not educated on that verse in particular um so I'm not going to be able to answer that question directly if I'm just being genuine and honest um sure my thing with the the Islamic dilemma is um that only works if the Quran is making the claim that the bible so the Torah and the in what we would say the ingeal the New Testament um is fully correct is fully authentic that's only with the Islamic dilemma work so we have verses within the Quran that explicitly say that um the previous revelations have been um tampered with they have been um as you mentioned earlier through speech and through pen um so so the Islamic dilemma does not work I want to re-uverse so sir with 2946 okay yes do not argue with

3:09:25the people of the book unless gracefully doing a great job uh except with those who mac wrongfully and say we believe in what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to you our God and your God is one and to him we submit yes so why are you not saying to me I believe in what has been revealed to you yeah so um well I think it's a it's a continuity right so that's why that claims being made that's why um all of subpoena wahtuala makes that claim um in the Quran is it's a continuity so I mean even the the abacinians um they seek are they took uh or the Muslims seek refuge in abacinia in Ethiopia which is a cath is a cath was a catholic empire at the time and at first they were going to be persecuted they were going to be executed but the king um accepted the Muslims as the people of the book so I believe that the logic in there the um the divine logic in there is

3:10:26to prove that there is continuity in the previous revelations not all of it is true right so like we don't have the injil today for my understanding we don't have the original Torah today but the Quran is confirming those revelations because there are some truth to it so I think they're what what is the verse where the Quran says your commanded to say we believe in what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to you what's been revealed to me is the Bible so why can't you say I believe in what was revealed to you yeah I believe in um and for the most part what is revealed to you absolutely for the most part yes not all of it though yes but that's not what it says it says just say believe it I believe it was been revealed to you so why can't you just say that unqualified well because it's qualified later and where altitude of different tests so give me one um have the verses on my phone you see 515 oh people of the book now our message messenger has come to you revealing much of what has of what you have hidden of your scriptures and disregarding much

3:11:29there certainly has come to you from Allah a light and a clear guidance so it doesn't say my scriptures are corrupted it says people of the book are hiding what's in there okay so it doesn't say they've been corrupted well I mean I think that's a pretty strong a pretty strong case I mean maybe it doesn't explicitly say like all the Torah um has been corrupted in this very um exact way but I think that's a that's a strong enough case so hiding is corrupting um yeah I'm if you're concealing knowledge for sure can you read this uh what the did I just corrupt it um not necessarily yeah hiding is not corrupting something yeah not not necessarily with that action right there but it well I mean I'm hitting from you this is the same action the Quran is talking about so hiding something is not corrupting it that's the point all right that's fair and honestly as I said I don't have that much knowledge in that said verse so I can concede that point um to you as well but let's just let's just let's just I mean there's no place in the Quran it says my

3:12:31scriptures are corrupted though um yeah so I mean I would argue they're they're definitely is I mean you have I'm reading there's 279 there's 378 there's 513 um and then I think we just went over yeah 515 what is 378 say um should you read it for me yes it's not saying my scriptures are corrupted it says um this is one of the ones we use it says uh but uh there are some among those who distort the book with their tongues yes so my books are not corrupted people which is misinterpreting it well I mean we know that uh the Torah um is memorized through tongue um it's because that's one of the points you were bringing up earlier is that that verse um alludes to the Talmud right that's what the claim of 279 does 279 yeah here's the thing seward 285 says do you believe in parts of the books while reject the rest asking a rhetorical question in other words in the very sewer two sewer 279 if it's saying that we corrupted our scriptures in 279 right after

3:13:31it tells us to believe in all of our scriptures every last bit of it so why would it say our scriptures are corrupted then tell us to believe in all of it yeah yeah and and that goes back to my point I think it goes into continuity I think that if you're confirming that there was revenue I think we all can agree here there was revelation sent to Moses he had the Torah um we all can agree that Jesus peace be upon him he also um well he he can hang contained the injeal I mean the earliest record we have that is in Paul's letters and Cornate Greek um right right the earliest records what do you mean yes so the so the new testament the earliest letters we have in the new testament would be Paul first us alone okay right and that's in Cornate Greeks yeah we know Jesus spoke spoke rmaic so I Greek he was bilingual okay yes god Stanley Porter for example Marie's case he argued this yeah okay cool man yeah so I think there's a strong enough case to say that there's corruption that has happened in the Old Testament and has happened in the New Testament even the McCarthy study Bible says it admits that there are scribal errors in the Bible so I mean

3:14:38I think that point I think if we're both being genuine in the conversation there certainly is corruption whether it was you know man made by tongue as a coron says by pen there's corruption over time we don't have the exact verbatim words of Jesus for every single verse of John Matthew Mark Matthew Luke slowly responded full yes even Bartirman would say most of those scribal errors are just spelling differences are spelling errors yes he agrees no essential Christian doctrines have been changed okay okay but that doesn't change anything the coronist if that if our scriptures are corrupted why is the Quran confirming corrupted scriptures it's it's not confirming corrupted scriptures it's confirming that those revelations happened it's confirming that the Torah it's confirming the in G. but back to c. 241 by the Gidehi confirming what is with you confirming yeah it's confirming what is with us oh okay it's confirming with is what is with us yeah over and over again c. 691 c. 291 c. 241 447 over and over again like a beating drum the

3:15:46Quran is saying to the Jews and Christians I'm confirming what is with you yeah and and I and like I gave that historical example we we see that and even today we see Christians in Jordan and in Gaza they they're Christians but they believe in the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him yes I there's I actually know several and that there's many I well I can't give examples on the top of my head people Christian who sure I mean and to you I'm sure that's you can't believe Muhammad's a prophet and be a Christian okay well that I mean that's your perspective as a your Protestant right I don't I don't talk about that okay fair enough I keep all that private fair enough I respect that I don't it's for safety purposes yes I get that so it doesn't matter though the Quran is claiming to confirm Christ scriptures you say are corrupted why yeah because it's it's confirming that these scriptures again I've been I've said this maybe three or four times it's confirming that those revelations happened I think there's a verse in the Quran where God is

3:16:47speaking directly to Muhammad and he's like when you are in doubt you can always paraphrasing 217 1094 yeah um you can refer back to what was it in 1094 it says if you're in doubt a prophet ask those who've been reading the scripture before you yes so correct if you doubt what are you supposed to do so if we're if we're in doubt as Muslims yes we can go to Christians and we can go to Jews right um and we can see what's authentic in their book um and the way we find that is what is authentic in the Quran that is the way that we filter that out but that's not what the verse says it says if you're in doubt about the scriptures you've got to come to us to verify we're the authority for the Quran we're supposed to verify the Quran well well let me let me actually change um my answer if I can because I think that that verse that's talking about Muhammad right so I think that actually the context is different there it's not talking to us as Muslims like when we're in

3:17:50doubt because Muslims we Muhammad your pattern or conduct yes he is okay but it doesn't change anything yeah but well but the context of that verse is um if Muhammad is in doubt like well what is going on with this revelation um he can refer back to Christians and Jews at the time and that will reaffirm essentially his belief so Jews and Christians have to affirm his revelation they don't have to right they don't yeah they don't have to I think I think it's more of a an analogy to show that um Islam is the continuation it is the last revelation or Quran is the last revelation um and all of the prophets of God have been practicing Islam since the beginning of man where is it how do you know that well I'm I'm using the linguistic meaning so Islam means to submit their will to God we can only but you're getting that from Muhammad the Quran basically so Quran how are you getting that from the Arabic just Muhammad says he's in continuity with the prophets

3:18:50because he said so basically but he then contradicts all the scriptures of the prophets uh kadeeja's I believe kadeeja's uncle was first what a what yeah what a yeah he he said and so it's not Muhammad's word he said that Muhammad is certainly a prophet and that he was he around for all the revelations of the Quran I don't think he was around for the full 20 so how would he have known everything in the Quran is actually of God well I mean he was there for what certainly the first several years for vicious the very beginning many's cut out of the story so he does he never confirms all these revelations well I mean he's he confirmed that the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was getting revelation in the cave he thought that but he wasn't there in fact according to tough seers well he confirmed it according to tough seers Muhammad said he was a demon that attacked him Muhammad said there's a there's a there's that's authentic court it I can't because I hear that rhetoric quite a bit and I haven't seen any authentic hadeeth that said that let me it's not

3:19:51a hadeeth it's in a okay what's your book it's in the tough seer yeah okay so for example um pull these up here so in uh in this uh Ali ibn burham al-din al-hala halal al-halabi probably butchering that that's okay it's in the seerah for example it says I fear that I may have been affected by madness meaning the touch of a jinn and um for example ibn al-Jawazi volume four page 273 at the beginning he Muhammad fear that what he was seeing might be from Satan so the only eyewitness to what happened in the cave said it was a demon and then later people said no you're a prophet that was an angel yeah kind of strange okay yes sure we could extend that to Christianity there's several different people um and I wish I had the information on me i'm sure we can do a um a fact check of who they are but there's um a multitude plethora of different verses of different people um that have experienced

3:20:54divine encounters that oh so were sweating and they also believed that they were it was either I believe it was like satanic or no one in the bible no there is there is we can we can we can no place in the bible where someone had a counter with Satan and they later were convinced to i'm not saying they had an encounter with Satan i'm not saying that Muhammad had an encounter with Satan i'm just saying that there's definitely examples in the bible where there's prophets um that have had encounters that they believed were not from god i don't i don't think that's true at all it is true i mean the viewers can check that themselves nothing like the idea of what Muhammad had so Muhammad is unique in that he thought he saw a demon and people later convinced him it was an angel but i mean at the end but who's the people who convinced him people that weren't there his life a christ a christian priest a profound monotheist in seven century arabias the one who confirmed so it's not just like anybody's like hey man like you're not seeing demons right these are people

3:21:56with credentials so it's a by the way this fact check when you mention that thing about it's saying it's unclear it says that the claim is that such examples exist in the bible but no specific example is named here so i guess because you didn't name it it's a can't be one okay so so Muhammad goes to christians to verify his revelations are from god then correct no that that is that no that's that's not how that that is not how that historically happened that god and any forces to do though yeah but where do we have any account that Muhammad did that no that's just a god saying if you are in doubt of what is being revealed to you you can reveal to the christians you can reveal so refer to the bible if he were continuity of those revelations if he were and he found that his revelations were perfectly in line with what the christians have that would clear up his doubt right no it wouldn't no no because it's not it's not perfectly in line exactly exactly but if it was would that clear up his doubt no i i wouldn't i wouldn't say that because

3:22:59he went to the Jews and Christians and they had scriptures that perfectly aligned with the Quran with that clear up his doubt um no i i wouldn't say so because i believe that the prophet Muhammad salallahu laawih was salam i believe it was very clear that the Quran is a final revelation for mankind right so he already knows that these last revelations have been tampered with and i hear i i i gave all the different verses i mean we read those verses actually say our scriptures have been corrupted okay well it just talks about sure people twisting them with their tongues or it talks about them writing something and saying it's from ala but that's not saying that they have corrupted scriptures sure and and that's and you're perfectly entitled to that view but essentially all Islamic scholars then he for any basis of knowledge have all came to the conclusion that those verses absolutely do suggest um that rep those revelations a lot of the early

3:24:00tough sears have there's 20 different opinions on 279 for example yes sure but so they don't i named five i named five i named five verses not all in agree yeah none of the other verses talk about script anything being written it's just about twisting with tongues right and i and i don't know that's about corrupted scriptures we have i and that's something that i would encourage the viewers to do their research on if there's if they if you can very clearly see that the majority Muslim opinion is that the tour because i mean like i'm arguing something that literally every Muslim of any sort of knowledge whether it's in Saudi Arabia whether it's she is with Sunnis um across all muhabs they all come to the common consensus that the Torah has been corrupted that the injil we don't have the full injil today there is obviously going to be some some separation there's going to be Muhammad said in suhrin nine about he's saying they take their lords and rabbis they take their their their priests and their rabbis as lords suhrin nine 31

3:25:04yeah lords in context of the hadith says when they what what he means is when they take with the their the rabbis and their priests say alongside a law they're making them lords yeah that's what you're doing you're taking what your mom's and your shakesay alongside the words of a law according to Muhammad you're committing shirk uh in suhrin four says you suhrin four says a law won't forgive shirk but guess what jesus will forgive you come to christ yeah well i'll be okay but that's there's a knowledge vacuum there because no yes you can be forgiven for shirk if you commit shirk and you sincerely repent for committing shirk you can be forgiven now yes that verse is there i'm not disputing that there's a verse that saying shirk cannot be forgiven shirk will not be forgiven if you die upon shirk and you don't repent this is very clear open knowledge any muslim and even Christian and good faith that's arguing this point knows that shirk will can be forgiven if you

3:26:04repent for it if you die where's say that it um i sure there's a caron verses and it says you're a four forty eight okay a la does not forgive associating others with him okay but forgives anything else of whoever he wills sure so he will for he's forgiven all of your sins but you committed to sending one forgive understood so you're sorry man are you able to fact check that i'm waiting for it i'm waiting for it to pop up yeah i'm fine without getting fact check okay which by which by the way we should start getting to closing statements and stuff because i think we made your point here but okay associating with others is that the right one up there for forty eight york a la forgives associating with others with him if a person repents but not if they die without repenting right so exactly what i said for being so seeing others with him if a person repent talking about shirk though it is that's like what shirk this matches the caronic idea for it was shirk is unforgivable of one that's what i said can you see that hold on i just say that in the verse though okay hold on hold on i've conceded many points to you can you can you

3:27:05forgive me for giving a person sincerely repents though towards that where's the caron saying that it says it says up right there um the verses where's it say that is my point i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know it says he won't forgive shirk not if it doesn't say we'll forgive shirk if you repent it says it won't for he he will not forgive shirk that's the problem there okay well this is something that islamic jurists and scholars have been studying for years since fourteen hundred years ago in seven century arabia it's just common knowledge that if you commit shirk you repent for it you will be forgiven all is the most the most merciful or achman irochim is the most merciful he's the most forgiving do you think the most merciful the most forgiving god is not going to forgive shirk if he said it yeah yeah he did say it but that's qualified that's qualified it has said that he is shirk is forgiven if you repent for it i mean we can take time and you

3:28:09can look this up man i mean i mean there's i can't i the caron i thought was clear sure and i this is the thing i want to get at is like you know i've conceded between you know the last two prompts that i've had with you i've conceded points to you i've given points to you and i think a test of gen gen who's being genuine in a conversation if you can concede some points to me i mean we just fact check this man like we we just fact check this the audience can fact check this i go for it yeah okay so are will you concede this point no because i'm going what the caron says okay i don't i i said i see you're only going off with the caron says i thought that's what we're supposed to do well then why with a prompt with aisha's age at nine the hadith was so important to you because that was a different prompt on what islam teaches this is the islamic dilemma it's on what the caron is teaching that's the prompt but either way the caron does not say we'll forgive shirk if you repent it says it he says allow will not forgive shirk that's

3:29:12my point in a i can say it but is a i stating a verse showing where it says if you repent a lot will forgive i mean we we could check this right now let's get it let's get into uh final comments though yes um well okay so um do you want to go first Michael i mean again there's just nothing i'll yeah i'll go i'll let you the last word there's nothing here where the caron ever qualifies when it says it's confirming our scriptures never it says it's confirming them wholesale the reason why is simply this mahamid was an illiterate man he really thought he was a prophet but he really wanted to choose and Christians to think he was a prophet so what do they do he went he went and told them i'm confirming your scriptures trust me bro to hopefully convince them they would think he's a prophet it didn't work as they had the scriptures and they knew what was in there and they knew he was contradicting them so you know who created the islamic dilemma mahamid did because he didn't actually fact check if he would have he would have said they're corrupted but he didn't anytime they came and disagree with him he said well you're hiding what's really in there

3:30:12there's prophecies prophecies of me and they're you're hiding them completely false so mahamid made the islamic dilemma because he wanted to choose and Christians to think he was a prophet so he claimed to confirm their scriptures but then contradicted them this is why we know islam is false this is the main reason we know islam is a false religion everyone should abandon this religion and come to christ understood okay that's your opinion on that um i've very clearly stated my position on that and that is the caron confirms that revelation was sent to Moses revelation was sent to prophet jesus peace be upon them both now i would say that there are absolutely evidences that all us penna what do all it gives in the caron that revelation has been corrupted but the the Torah the original Torah and the injil are being confirmed in the caron so that's my position on that and then lastly i would say that i think us muslims and christians have so much in common and i think we

3:31:12should unite on truth and i i think that's really important so i appreciate you having the conversation Michael thank you coming and uh yeah we appreciate you guys see you on the next episode 94% of you guys watching this right now are not subscribed to the channel if you enjoyed this conversation please hit that button it helps get bigger guests on the show and helps us continue to grow thank you