(09/04) Royal Oakes on the Lindsay Clancy mistrial

0:00This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human. Can't find AM640. You're listening to the John Cobalt podcast on the I heart radio. Ron from three to six and then after six o'clock, John Cobalt show on demand on the I heart app. We need a video picture. Well, we have is the slide. We are going to run live stream right now. Well, sort of live on YouTube, live out X and, um, also the podcast after six o'clock John Cobalt show on demand on the I heart app. And you can hear whatever you missed. This is a day my head is likely to explode. Uh, I cannot, I cannot do with this Lindsey Clancy case. Uh, we're going to talk with, uh, world oaks in just seconds here. Uh, Lindsey Clancy, you must have heard about this. She's the mother in Massachusetts who killed her three children, uh, very young eight,

1:05five, uh, five, three and eight months. Korra Dawson and Callan really cute kids. I saw a photo today. They don't show the kids too much in the media. Uh, I see a lot of the, uh, crazy women outside wearing pink cheering. There's a lot of video and photos of those people, but not Korra Dawson and Callan. Anyway, you probably heard Lindsey Clancy suffering postpartum depression, uh, center husband on errands takes the three little children downstairs, uh, lays them face down on the ground and uses exercise bands to strangle them to death. And then, uh, cuts her wrists, cuts her neck, jumps out of window does not kill herself successfully, but she's paralyzed from the waist down. And somehow most of the jury wanted to declare her not guilty by reason of insanity. Apparently one guy held out one and thank God for him.

2:11He had nine of the 11 that wanted him that wanted Lindsey Clancy, the clear not guilty. Nine of the 11 were women. Can you imagine what was going on in that jury room? Let's get to Roylox on now. Roylo, how are you? I'm doing great. What is our case though? As you say, ultimate frustration, John, what it came down to is that, you know, you have to have unanimous vote in the criminal case and it was 11 to one not guilty. The one guy who was holding out allegedly wasn't playing by the rules. The foreman went to the judge and said, Hey, you're on our kick him off. He, he, he's not following your reasonable doubt, uh, explanation or instruction. So the judge looked into it and said, No, I think he's okay. I just keep, keep going and do your best. The defense attorney said, Well, I'm going to be a palatable of all of the messages that's court. He did and within a couple of hours this morning, they came back and said, Nice try. But, you know, we're going to trust the trial judges instinct on this. Therefore the, the hungry stands, it's a Miss trial. In a few months, they'll come back and they'll set a new trial date.

3:13But, you know, a lot of politics is getting injected. As you say, a lot of protesters who say, let's, let's focus more on women's mental health and other people are saying what part of, you know, she killed her three children. And knew she had done the wrong thing because she didn't felt so bad in guilty. She tried to kill herself. Yeah. I can't get around this. She, she knew she was going to do the wrong thing. That's why she sent her husband out. And after it happened, she knew she did the wrong thing. And that's why she cut her wrists and neck and jumped out of window. What else do you need? So in response to that perspective, you have three shrinks on each side. Sitting there in their nice outfits and their fancy credentials, looking the jury in the eye. And the defense psychiatrist are saying she was told by the some male voice commander to kill her children. She's had suicidal attempts, suicide, outlined calls. She's been in and out of psyche at the hospital. She didn't know right from wrong. Therefore, send her back to a hospital.

4:13The prosecution is saying, nice try. She obviously knew right from wrong. Yes. Because of the planning, as you say. Yes. The husband away planned with the exercise bands to diametrically oppose views. I will say this, John, the prosecution better get busy with a different approach. If they do have a retrial, say in November or December, because it's hard to climb out of 11 to one hole. You better do something. Maybe what do you do? What do you do when you when you have a situation where people don't understand that if you send your husband out, that's a sign you knew that this was wrong. And that when you jump out the window after the fact that's a big warning sign that I know that was wrong. I don't know what else to say about that. If that argument didn't work. So there's no easy answer to the question of what you do. But there are two thoughts. So the first thought is you simplify it. Instead of giving five choices, man's daughter murder one two, you just give guilt of murder, maybe murder two, make it more palatable or or not guilty by reason and insanity.

5:18The other thing you do is you don't call on quite a strong in the opening statements. A lot of criticism of the prosecution. They got up there in the pound of the table and they said, ladies and gentlemen, you won't believe the horrific facts here. This woman killed all three of her children and then she tried to kill herself. And she's a cold blooded killer. I think people are counseling the prosecution now to be a little more realistic and open minded and start out saying it is a horrendous thing that happened. She does have mental health issues, but they do not rise to the level of insanity. She knew right from wrong. It's horrible. Her life is horrible, but you have to do the right thing. I think that would stand a better chance of a good position by the jury in connection with the second trial. Explain to me this concept that the whole dad juror didn't understand or didn't apply the law when it comes to reasonable doubt. He didn't have reason. We don't have a, you know, we don't have a clear explanation. Unfortunately, the jurors will start to talk probably and they'll probably a blab about the whole thing.

6:19But essentially probably what she was saying is, all right, judge, you told us that if there is reasonable doubt, we should vote not guilty. And 11 of us are voting not guilty. This idiot, this guy who's still voting guilty, he has made it clear by his conversation. He doesn't believe in the concept of reasonable doubt as you described it. He just thinks dog got it. Metal illness is not an excuse for crime. And he's he's going to ignore your position. Now, here's the problem. If if the defense attorney gets busy, John, and gets 11 declarations from the 11 who wanted not guilty and they all say the same thing along the lines of this guy was a maniac. I mean, the jurors, the judge seemed to think he was okay in a, in a quickie conversation. We had delivered him for six days and he in the following ways made it clear he wasn't going to comply with the rules. If they submit that, that could theoretically persuade an appellate panel of Massachusetts to say, whoa, let's have a second trial or the defense might say based on double jeopardy rules, she's already had a trial.

7:20She's had a single exposure. There should be no second trial. The judge messed up. I don't understand. If I'm on the panel because I have a different opinion, I'm accused of ignoring the law. I don't have any reason. If I was in that jury, I would have been with this guy. People on a jury who are frustrated, maybe clicks have formed, maybe personal animosity is formed. And so the 11 may be exaggerating about what this one guy on the other side was feeling. And as you suggest, the jury, you know, that's why we have a unanimity requirement. You have to have all 12 in agreement. And just because you think the one guy holding you up is a whack job. It's not an excuse for taking him off the jury. I think it's in reverse. He was the one sane person in that jury room. The rest of them were whack jobs. I don't know how it's come to this. I really don't.

8:21I mean, I mean, look at all the women outside. We're in their stupid pink and you're very cheering and and applauding as the defendant went by with all her lawyers. What what is going on? Well, what's going on is that people who have an opinion about the criminal justice system let that opinion influence them to the point where they're not willing to listen to quote people who, you know, spent a few weeks and listen to the judge who makes a decision as to whether they're not going to one guy off or not. Instead, they've got their agenda. They have their political motivation about let's protect women's mental health. And you know, let's see what she went. She made by what's on in the courtroom. She went to many mental health professionals. She was prescribed all kinds of drugs. There's plenty of mental health assistance for women. She tried everything and still chose to do that. Actually, what her husband should have done is grabbed the kids and gotten out of there.

9:21But then he would have been taken accordingly. Ask makes me. This may not make you any happier, John, but they're likely to have a plea bargain talks break out because in the next few months, if there's any receptivity by the prosecution about something less than life and prison, you can bet that the defense would be interested in having a conversation. Maybe plead guilty to Voltae Manslor out in five, 10 or 15 years. Because if they get a different jury the second time around, she could go away forever. So there's an incentive to Creole and deal right now. She should. All right. Well, very good. Thank you for coming on, Royale. You bet. Thanks. Where are all Oaks ABC news legal analyst? I got a lot to say and I have a number of clips from the prosecutor and the defense attorney and how these jurors were described. Can't imagine what that guy went through. You're listening to John Cobalt on demand from KFI AM640. We just had where I woke up from ABC news to talk about the

10:25Lindsey Clancy case. She almost got off. It was 11 to one to declare her not guilty by reason of insanity, which in itself is insane. And there is what there was one juror, a guy who withstood the onslaught and said, no, guilty. And then the other jurors accused him of not understanding the reasonable doubt provision in the law or not abiding by it. To invoke reasonable doubt means you have to have it. If he didn't have reasonable doubt, I'm with him. I had no reasonable doubt either. I just mentioned this to Royale, but if you're just joining us, this is the case to me. She went and got all the mental health help she could prescribe lots of medications. She saw lots of professionals. So this is not a question of taking women's mental health seriously. Okay. Husband did not cause this.

11:25It's her actions. She knew they were wrong because she sent her husband out to the drug store. And then she did all he was gone gave him errands. Secondly, after it's done, she realized, oh, this is bad. This is wrong. And she tries to kill herself, which is the appropriate reaction. Slip the wrist, slip the neck, jumped out the window, did not kill herself, but is paralyzed. What I see, first of all, out in the streets with all these crazed women wearing pink is mass psychosis. Same thing like the women who lined up for Luigi Mangio mass psychosis. It's a real thing. That's what the Salem witchcraft trials were about. That's what a lot of the social movements over the last 12 years or so are about. Mass psychosis powered by the internet. This stuff wouldn't exist without the internet. People spend all day. It's TikTok psychos, TikTok psychomoms gathering together every day.

12:30And they have created a patron saint for all their mental issues. And that became Lindsey Clancy. And so they pray to her and they pray for her soul every day. It's become like a religious movement. But there's no rational thought here. This is nothing to do with rational thought logic intelligence. Any of that. The thing is, do you know how what it was like and maybe young women don't, but it was hard for women to get hired for a lot of jobs way back. Maybe 50 years ago, it was recently is that 40 years ago because women in the professional workplace were considered to be a risk that they're hormonally unbalanced, that they're mentally unbalanced. They can't be relied upon that they're going to be freaking out. They're going to be crying. They're going to be this and that. And then you know, that's why pregnant women couldn't get hired because they're, their focus is going to be on the children. They're going to be calling and sick all the time. There's always going to be some problem and they're going to be coming off the pregnancy

13:34with all messed up head, messed up chemicals. And that was a strong belief. And there was a, there was a quite a battle that went on to get men to accept the idea that no women are the same as guys in the workplace. Well, now you have this and it's not just Lindsey Clancy going off the deep end almost literally, but you have all these women in the streets applauding her, cheering her on. And it's, you got a lot of people are going, whoa, what is this? Have you ever seen, every plenty of guys who killed their kids or killed their wives? Have you ever seen other men wear a color and line up by the hundreds, cheering and holding signs? Have you ever seen that? I mean, you see that in, in, in racial cases. But let's, let's talk specifically about a gender case.

14:35Women killing kids show me the guy who gets men supporting them. When I heard it was 11 to 1 and I heard there were nine women. I knew the whole that was the guy. I absolutely knew that with certainty. And the thing is he's the one getting vilified, not the nine women who backed up the murderer. She's a killer. Lindsey Clancy is killing. I don't, you look at those three little children and then read exactly what she did. And you tell me you would have the guts to say, oh, not guilty. That's crazy. That is as crazy as the actual act itself, but it's, it's entirely accepted. Nobody is gathering in the streets for the children.

15:37Nobody's gathering the streets for the husband. Listen to a question asked of the Plymouth County D H M crews. Cut one. You know, I'm not going to stand out here and listen to this. You had a lemon juror that didn't necessarily believe your case. What do you say to those people who felt the whole prosecution was sensitive? Where's what? Insensitive. In sensitive is killing three children. In sensitive is ignoring those facts. We have an obligation to stand up for those people and see justice and make sure that they're trying to get justice and make sure they get justice. So if people don't, can't understand that. I don't know how I can answer that question. In sensitive, the prosecution was insensitive when they're trying to get justice for three young children who trusted their mother, who rolled the kids on their stomach and then took to exercise bands to strangle the life out of them. And the DA, Tim Cruz is the one who's insensitive.

16:38And did you hear those reporters full woke, full progressive as part of women's rights now, the right that if you're not feeling mentally well, you get to strangle all your kids to death. And you get a parade and it's insensitive to quite insensitive. That is the craziest question I've ever heard my life from a reporter. What do you say to the people who say it's insensitive that they need some severe mental health treatment that they need to be checked in? I'm going to play you when we come back clips of the defense attorney, who's just as nuts. You're listening to John Cobalt on demand from KFI AM640. He was fascinating about living in the modern world now is how everything has gotten inverted. Somebody takes a crap in front of me on the street and I say, Hey, that's

17:39wrong. Lock that person up while you're being insensitive. You don't have compassion. No, no, no, they are launching all kinds of disease at my feet here. This is disgusting. It's human feces. I'm sorry. That's mean and insensitive. I know we have the case here of, uh, in this, this, this clancy case, Lindsey clancy, who murdered her three children. I can barely talk about this. And suddenly it's everybody else who's a monster who wants her put away, which would be the normal reaction. You know, for, for most of the time I've been on the planet up and just till recent years, now apparently it's an inappropriate reaction to say, Hey, don't you think you're to lock her up? Just killed her three kids. I mean, would you want to share a room with her? That's what I would offer to any of the offenders.

18:44I said, you know what? You, you share a bed with her tonight. See how it goes. By the way, crazy eyes. Holy moly, let me tell you, you see the crazy eyes in anyone in your life like that get out real fast. Uh, it just don't even pack. You can buy new stuff somewhere else, but you see those kind of eyes. And Kevin Reddington, I mean, his excuse is he's getting paid to spew this, this garbage. I don't know if anybody's paying all the, the nutty women on the, on the road who are cheering, uh, Lindsey Clancy on, but Reddington held a news conference, uh, after the, uh, verdict, which was 11 to one in favor of not guilty. One male, a holdout. And of course he's getting pillory now. God help it if his identities revealed and it will be revealed. It is, it's just like a now a feminist thing to, uh, have the right to kill your own children.

19:48You talk about a slippery slope. You know, recently some states have extended abortion to a full term. And now I guess, uh, you, uh, abortion runs the first five years of the child's life. And women will come out, wear a pink and scream at you if you object. Well, this is Kevin Reddington, uh, listen to this reaction from the defense attorney. I'm representing a woman who is a fantastic, wonderful individual. This woman is so brave, so awesome. All right. Can you stop it? Stop it there, Tony. We are talking about the woman who strangled her three kids. Now if a woman who did that is fantastic, wonderful, brave and awesome. What do you call a woman who didn't do any of that and, uh, just made dinner? I mean, you're, you're out of superlatives. You're out of adjectives.

20:49How can you get better than fantastic, wonderful, brave and awesome? Just for giving her kids what about an ordinary woman who? I don't know. Victor kids up from school and went to the park and they had a picnic. Not brave, not awesome, not fantastic and wonderful. Play more of this. This woman is so brave, so awesome. Every day she came in this courthouse, good tall, open intended. The poor thing is in a wheelchair as we all know for the rest of her life. Stop, stop, stop. She did that. She flung herself out the window poor thing. She threw herself out the window. Cause she knew what she did was really, really bad. And now she was going to have to live with the grief of her kids being dead and possibly if we were a sane universe, life in prison.

21:52Play some more. And sat there through seven weeks of the trial. We had nobody had anything bad to say about her except for the two prosecutors and apparently Tim Cruz. Stop, stop, stop. That's because the kids couldn't speak. What do you think the kids would say? Nobody had a bad thing to say about her. Good. Ward, where did this guy come from? Kevin Reddington. And by the way, everybody does this now. Everybody, all these lawyers, all these media commentators and, and all politicians and corporate executives, everybody has gone to the dark side. The alternate universe, the nether world where everything you knew, it's now the opposite. Now the woman, imagine yourself taking an exercise band and you have your little five year old and you're pushing them down and you're wrapping it around his neck or her neck

22:56and you're pulling it as tight as you can and what that the way she's that kid is making. And does it three times. And your attorney says she's fantastic. She's wonderful. She's brave. She's awesome. And nobody has a bad word to say about her. What happened? I keep thinking that I died seven years ago and I wasn't a good person on earth. And now I'm in this hell where my life looks the same. They've recreated my life in this hell except everything is in reverse. I still come here. The news is all in reverse. Everything everybody says is in reverse. And this is like some kind of cosmic prank to watch me lose my mind every day. Because on every story the opposite happens of what should or what used to happen.

23:59Place them more. She had people that would meet her. Nurses that would know her that would visit with her. The chaplain will never know her from Brigham and women who went for three years and continues to visit with her because of the type of person she is. And it's not right what she had to go through because she grieves the loss of those three children. Korra, Dosson and Callan because I know their names. I don't have to look down to a piece of paper and find out what their names are. Wait, can you take 20 seconds more of this character? More of Kevin Reddington, the defense attorney. Ready for a second trial. Lindsay is very, very, very strong. She is a very, very intelligent young woman, very emotionally invested. And just a tragic. She's a classic example of a tragic person.

25:01Her life is a tragedy and she was robbed by this man. This man would be the juror who isn't buying this manure. She was robbed by a guy who's rational, logical and refused to crumble under the onslaught of abuse that I'm sure he suffered in the jury room. Holy mo- you have seen how crazy passionate these pro Lindsay Clancy women are. Nine of them in the jury room. By the way, the jury system ought to be destroyed. But I said that during the OJ trial. And I've seen very little that's changed my mind since. This is interesting. CNN, a reporter describing the female Clancy jurors as the judge spoke after declaring the mistrial. Listen to this report.

26:02Tell you from our producer in the courtroom that when the judge said, I want to tell you all how proud I am of you. There was one female juror that was nodding her head. No. As he was saying all that. Another female juror clenching her hands into fists as she was sitting on that chair. All of the jurors were extremely tense. One female juror would not even open her eyes. Her eyes were gazed down in her lap. Her eyes were closed as the judge continued to talk to them about what this final decision was. Another juror just nodded her head. The entire time he was talking and another female juror was percing her lips. Because they all wanted to kill the guy who wouldn't go along with their insanity. He's the bad guy. He's evil. He should be kept.

27:03I'm surprised they didn't kill her. And then they would have all gotten off by reason of insanity. But they were driven to insanity by the insensitive verdict from this clown. Hi. And you know what, last year, it was Luigi Mangio. Now it's this. And now when some obvious tragedy happens, even if we all agree on the facts, even if it's on video, 50-50 shot that the perpetrator becomes the victim and literally starts getting a parade of supporters as they're being driven to the courtroom. 50-50, depending on what demographic group they happen to fall into. But let me tell you, the biggest lie is this idea. Well, there's time we haven't had a conversation about women's mental health. Oh, for goodness sakes. Just read how many different clinics and doctors and how many prescriptions, okay?

28:03No way you can talk around her sending the husband out for errands while she did it. And no way you can talk around her reaction when she realized what she did. And she threw herself out the window. That's impossible. All right, we've got more coming up. We've got Tracy Park after four o'clock. Nithya Robyn, the fake mayoral candidate, the communist, she went to the palisades of all places, a place that she never visited when after it burned down. Now she's going, we'll talk with Tracy Park, the councilwoman for that district. You're listening to John Cobalt on demand from KFI AM640. Just after four o'clock and I lean Gonzalez's news, we're going to have Tracy Park on councilwoman on the west side, the 11th district, my councilwoman, because Nithya Robyn finally showed up in the palisades. She showed no interest after the fire that wiped out the palisades and killed a dozen people and

29:11caused hundreds of billions of dollars in damage. Of course, she never did anything to get more funding for the fire department. That's why we have half a fire department. I didn't hear her say anything about the empty reservoir. Reservoir that was bone dry because Janice Kenone has never filled it up. I never heard her say anything about all the busted fire engines, the busted fire hydrants. But now she's showing up. So we'll talk to Tracy Park about it when we come back. I found this funny. The Trump administration on their official White House website now has a series of arcade games. Video games. Among them, there's one game where you can capture people at the southern border and build your own border wall. It's called Rio Run. And you patrol the line along the Rio Grande and pick up every

30:16crosser in the lot and you try to earn a high score of deportations. And when the player catches one of the border crosses, they suddenly appear at an orange jumpsuit. And they start following behind you. There's another immigration game. It's based on the Tetris game. It's called Build the Wall and asks users to stack bricks and hold the line against a zombie border siege. Tetris does not think this is funny. Posted a note on social media saying that they're not involved in the creation of the game and we take copyright infringement very seriously. We believe in the power of connection and bringing people together not dividing them. They have a few other games there, but I might want to go to the White House website and you could play now before it's taken down by a judge. When we come back, we're going to talk with Tracy Park

31:21on the west side, the councilwoman, Palisades is a part of her district. And now she's dealing with another invader, Nithya ramen, suddenly cares, pretends to care. The desperate communist showed up in the palisades. We'll talk about it. And in for Deborah Mark, Eileen Gonzalez live in the KFI 24 hour newsroom. Hey, you've been listening to the John Cobalt show podcast. You can always hear the show live on KFI AM640 from 1 to 4 p.m. every Monday through Friday. And of course, anytime on demand on the iHeart Radio app.