You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems

0:00George Campbell here with a quick PSA before the call start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need to plan that works. So take what you learned today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today. You Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Runaway Hit on Ramsey Network. The Dr. John Deloney Show, he is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi Cody, how are you? You know Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

1:00Well guys, I'm going to start off a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize. My wife and I have just recently found out that her parents are asking my wife's sisters that are under 18 for money for basic bills. We don't really know. I've heard in the past, you guys say, don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance. We're just kind of stuck because my sister-in-law is our 10, 12, and then 17, so I'm just kind of confused on what to do. How much money do they have? Well, so the younger sister-in-law, they were working over the summer, so basically what happened was, my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that, well mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah, blah, blah, blah, so I offered them my $400 that I got from dogs sitting and they took it for

2:04groceries. And then our, or my 17-year-old sister-in-law came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote-unquote borrowed $1,000 from her for bills for last month to cover. Is this true? Are they struggling that bad? I would say so, yes. It's been talked about a couple of months ago, my wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. My father-in-law owns his own business and it's been, I know it's been struggling quite a while. So I want to put things in order. You hear a sale all the time. You can't help family unless they come ask you. But before that, I'm always going to protect kids. Of course. And if you got a 10-year-old that's coming to you saying, dad is saying, I don't have enough money for groceries, I need your dog sitting money, then I would, personally, I would insert myself into that situation.

3:05Okay, okay. And that's what we were thinking because it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that, that they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else for themselves. A lot of this is self-caused, just based off their career choices that they've had. So it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard for my wife to have respect as well. How long have you been worried? It'll be two years in February. I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you, but okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I think she, yeah, because here's the thing, if the two of you go over there at two years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years. Of course. Yep. It's not simply the situation. Yes, what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not

4:12questioning that at all. And if they were abusing the children physically, we would just turn them over to children services. Right. Yeah, that's not happening. That's simple because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially. And so I think, but I don't think your wife, your wife, what, 20 something years old? Yeah. She's 23. Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, you all need to stop this, you all need to become responsible adults. My guess is that it's about a zero percent chance that that's going to have any impact. 110%. And if you show up saying, I don't respect you guys, they're going to take it to the other house. That's not going to help you there. Yeah, that's a 40 year, that's a 40 year long discussion. I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking. Well, what Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. So my thought is when I, when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, can we talk? And she's got to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10 year old,

5:18right? Yeah. But we just, and my, sorry, go ahead. In my idea at first was like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, what if you like, take your mom out the coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sister's like, how bad is it? Is it really? Is that really happening? They don't really that bad. Yeah. And is there, is there ways we can help or is there ways we can support you or is there education? They may say, absolutely not. And then it's about giving your, your niece or your sister-in-law, if you will, a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else. But that's just going to, she's going to have eight years of mom and dad borrowing money. Exactly. Exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a life long. Yeah, but, but, you know, you're 25, you're 24. I would stay out of that for right now. Yeah, that's not, that's not okay. That's actually not true, either. It's a, it's a bad, it's a bad on-ramp to life, but it's not an on-ramp that can't be

6:18corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. Yeah. And then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay. So, then those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. Yeah. So, let me refer, when I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeve of the shirt and go bang on the door. I think, I think your wife taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out and saying, hey, we just happened to hear this. I'm worried about y'all. I'm worried about my sisters. Yeah. How bad is it? Definitely. And then y'all, too, have a hard conversation about, could you help? Will you help? But all that, because the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500? And y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that? No, go ahead now. I'll give you the answer to that. No. You're right. Because they're saying they're $10,000 short. Oh, month. So, I'm not throwing good money after bad. So, exactly. We only give, Ramses only give, into situations where we create a sustainable story. We don't throw money at something. $5 is something that's a $100 problem.

7:23That's not, you're not creating a sustainable story then. You've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it. And so, that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with the Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxers are ears and says, you have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house. Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life, your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby. And so, no, we're going to have, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene. Because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the 17 year old or the $400 from the 10 year old doesn't fix it. Nor does $500 from you fix it. So, don't do that. But do say, I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching, to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life. I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons. And you and I have talked about this before on the air. But parents don't like hearing money advice. So, she sits down and says,

8:23y'all need to start. That's not going to go well. But that idea of sitting down saying, hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it? You're all okay. Um, we are, and then tell them your story. That's a different avenue. Yeah. We are on a budget. It's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in, get our, our income in line with our outgo. And it's given us great peace. And if I could ever help you if we get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that. That kind of thing. Hey guys, it's George Campbell. And I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season. Shop Aldi first. Aldi has everything you need for holiday get together. I'm talking charcuterie boards, holiday sides, desserts without the large price tags. You'll get fresh, high

9:25quality food while keeping your budget off the naughty list because Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store. It's true. Families are saving up to $4,000 a year just by making Aldi their go to, which means more money for stocking stuffers. So find a store near you at Aldi.us. That's ALDI.us. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host and is with us in New Orleans. Hi Anne, how are you? Hello, I'm fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. Our honor. How can we go? Okay, my question is my husband and I, my ex-husband, not were a co-signer on my son's condo back in 2004.

10:33And since that time, my son is unable to pay his mortgage because he's unemployed. He lost his job. Just 2004? No, no, no. We purchased the condo in 2004. This past April, he lost his job. And since, and he's been unable to pay the mortgage. How many times did you pay it since 2004? Oh, it's happened before about 10 years ago. He ran into travel, paying his mortgage, and he was able to do it for balance. And of course, I assisted financially at that time. And you keep using the word unable, see unable or is he unwilling? Yeah, why do you not have a job? One of my best friends in the world is a paraplegic. He is unable. No, no, he's physically capable. He has not, and he has not found a job since April. He says he's looking at the hottest, the hottest hiring markets in human history. He's chosen not to work.

11:39I guess so. Okay, let's use, I just want to be, I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions, right? Now, yeah, understand. You're still on the mortgage. Yes, my ex-husband and I are co-signer, so we're responsible for paying the note if he does not. And he's not been paying it. Yes, so I have been paying it since April. My ex-husband made about three of the mortgage payments. So now, I want to know what would be the best avenue for me to convince my son to sell it, let it go for closure, and I told him, or else, you get a job and you pick up the payment. But I don't want it to go to for closure because I don't want it to affect my credit. I haven't, my credit rating is 820. Every time it's paid-lated a picture credit. Yes, I understand. So I just don't know if there's any options for me. Is he

12:43on the note at all? Is he on the note? My son is the owner of it. Yeah, he's on the note. She's the co-signer, yeah. You can't force him to sell it. You can just talk him into selling it. Will he sell it if you tell him to? No, he's dragging his speed about that. Well, he's dragging his speed because he knows you're going to pay. For 20 years, you bailed him out. Yes, I understand that. And you've probably given us some stern talking to's over the last 20 years, and you still paid it. So, yeah, he's dragging his speed because you taught him how to. I think you have to sit on it and say, I'm not paying this rent. Dave, I'll leave it to you. I mean, it's going to ruin your, your, yeah, you're going to get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed. Yeah, that's how this works. Can you afford to buy him out? I could. But I just don't know what my best options are because if I buy, if I, if he would tell me the condo, then it's mine, right, for me to do what I want with it. Exactly.

13:46And then you can, then you just sell it. Then he, you sell it. And right. Result it and get your money back out. And at least that way, you didn't lose anything. Yeah, you could just say, all right, let's give it a praise. I'm going to buy it from you. And then you put it on the market and sell it. That's what's best for you. That is unbelievably aggravating. And it's not necessarily what's best for him. What's best for him is to experience some pain. But, but he's not going to in this scenario unless you do. That's the problem with co-signing. You get to experience the pain with him. And he's going to play chicken with you. And you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially, right? Yes, I do. Yeah. What's the condo worth? Maybe about 40,000. Worst? 45. No, well, he would be lucky if he could get 64. Oh, my God. What do you owe on it? 30. Okay. And he's got 11 more years.

14:51Okay, go tell him that he can no longer screw up your life with his laziness. He needs to sell you this condo. Even if you buy it for whatever, have a real estate agent give you an appraisal. Buy it for that amount. Put it back on the market and resell it. And he needs to move. Okay. Yeah, that protects you. I'm for some reason. I thought this was a 600,000 dollar condo. It's a 60,000 dollar. Yeah, just you can you're you're you may lose a couple thousand bucks here there by moving all this gyration around, but you need to get out of this trap. You put yourself in and the trap is co-signing. You can't get out of the trap. You're either going to be an enabler or you're not going to pay and then he's going to get foreclosed on, which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you. And then they're going to come around looking for all of you wanting some money out of y'all because the condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it. But it's a piece of crap condo to start with. And and will you forgive yourself for the divorce

15:58finally? Yeah, yes. You're still trying to make that right with him. Stop 20 years. Yes, you're going to lose you're going to lose some money, but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son's not worth it. Yeah, I would I would buy it from him have him move out and turn around put it right back on the market and sell it. And if you lose a little bit that way, that gets you out of this trap. And then you have a standalone relationship with your son that's mother's son that is no longer co-signer because co-signer is putting a strain on everything. It's making you do things you're not you don't feel good about. And it makes you resent your son every time that phone rings you you feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask like it's altered your relationship? What's he going to ask for now? Yeah, I this time because you're aggravated with him like we are for being lazy not working since April. My god, how much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks? I mean, you can you can like do Uber one day a month

16:59and pull this off. This is about the laziest human I've run into. That's pretty rough. I mean, really. Yeah, think about this. I mean, it's not like it's a lot of money. Hey, I don't even know how the boy's eating. Well, all we all do and ends take making sure he's got groceries. Yeah, so and you got to stop it. It's time you put him on put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him from a distance that doesn't include your checkbook for the rest of his life. And that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself. And moms and dads out there never, ever, ever cosine. It's not an active love. It's not it's it's the ultimate enabling and it locks you into enabling because out of self preservation, you have to cover this stupidity of the other party. What about this Dave? I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong. Is there a moment when and again, I know I'm speaking in ratios here, but 50,000 dollars against what

17:59has is not a lot of money. Can she buy this thing and hand it over to him and walk in and dust her hands off walk away? Is that too much enabling? I wouldn't do that. Yeah. I think I think it's I think he's not going to move is what I think he's not going to sell it to his mom. Yeah. Well, then I would just take the pain of being foreclosed on you would I'll just stop. Okay. You either going to show it to me or the days of me giving you money or done. They're over. And that's what I'm getting either you're either you're going to sell this to me or you're going to have to figure it out. Okay. I'm done. Okay. Because that's this is so bad for him. Yeah. She's stunning his emotional growth. I mean, he's six years freaking old. Yeah. You can't I can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30,000 bucks. This is lame. Yeah. This is really a lame boy. Especially when we talk to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever they got to do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Tough man. Tough. So enough clothing

19:04out of his closet. Plasma. Plasma. You can plasma your way to that one. It's just it's just not any money. So yeah, you got it. You got to get him free of you and you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man. And it's going to cost you that precious 820 that you're really you're really proud of it's going to cost you who cares about that. Let that stupid thing go. Oh my gosh. Yeah, condos never have been laid. She paid her own time every time. Every time. It's never been laid. It wouldn't be 820. This is the Ramsey show. Running a business is already complicated. You don't have time to become a health insurance expert too. And when you're self employed, there's no HR department to lean on. But that's where my friends at health trust financial come in. For over 20 years, they've been helping families

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21:16to the Ramsey show. Hi. I am a long time listener and first time caller. Okay. I'm on baby step six and I listen to your show all the time and you recommend never to co-sign for someone. Correct. I'm in the situation what I do want to co-sign for somebody under certain circumstance. So my husband's cousin, source cousin, she's been on section eight. Anyway, she lost that. Now she's in her 60s. She needs to get an apartment. There's a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her. And in order for her to get into an apartment, she needs to have someone co-sign or her brother who is the trustee refused to do so. And I was wondering. Warning. Warning. Warning. Why would her brother who loves her more than you do? He's her brother for God's sakes. Not want to co-sign. He doesn't love her. He doesn't mind if she goes home.

22:23Yes. No, that's true. I don't believe it. It is totally true. It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing. It's why he's telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to. There is more to the story than you are telling or believing. Well, she has a problem. She has personality. That's why she's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. She lost that. Who is the custodian of this of the special needs trust? Our brother. So will you have access to the funds for this apartment or does she have access to the funds? Right. So what I'm going to ask is it's okay if that works. If you agree that to the right thing for me to do, I can try to ask the brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me and then I will transfer that to her monthly. Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to co-sign? What does she trashes the place? She won't trash the place but she might,

23:31you know, she's not like that but she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the only kind of problem she has. Or gets kicked out or has four people over or get sweet talked in her. If you want people over, she'll just like, she loves cats. She'll probably, you know, take care. Break all the rules. Rules don't apply to her. Rules don't apply to her. Yeah. And Judy, we're going to tell you, no, if this money is available, then she can get the apartment under her name. You can write the checks every month for her. If she can't do that, that's fine. But you don't need to co-sign. But how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available? Well, you would have to have the money available. Yeah, print off a statement. Yeah. Can I show them? What do I do? Because if we're in California, there's a lot of these places and I don't live in the same town as she does. So it's not easy for me to like take her somewhere and talk to somewhere, you know? Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say, this is what's going on. She has a special needs trust. Brother's going to send you documentation.

24:35He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months. That's fine too. Oh, just prepay. Yeah, but you don't co-sign. And they're going to try to get you to co-sign. Because you have a blind spot here, kiddo. This lady is, she's gotten a hold of your heart and she's sweet and she does need someone to help her. But we need to define help very carefully. Help involves her behaving. And you're not willing to make that requirement. Nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior. Right. You're going to get screwed. If you do this, please don't do it. Okay. It's going to go up in flames. Okay. So I told you, apart from that, I have money, but I need to show some proof, right? So they're trust. Yeah. The brother's going to have to send documentation. Yeah. And by the way, you don't have this money, Judy. You just have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love

25:37her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street. Right. So all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality. And let me help you with this. Okay. It's not that he doesn't love her. It's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him. And he's done being burned. So he's putting up a boundary. That's different than not loving. And you got your calling it not love in a dysfunctional family. I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help, but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him. I'm not going to let you do it. Yeah. I don't even know him. And I'm not going to let he's not the jerk in this story. Okay. And there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness. And you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents. Yeah, don't sign. Just I don't know an apartment complex. It won't take your check if you got it. So if they won't take your money. So she can get her own place. Listen, I'm a landlord. If I know what's going on

26:42here, I'm not putting her in there. That's fair. That's fair. Because pre-paying the rent ain't half my problem. It's the 93 cats that end up in my building right or all the neighbors or whatever. Or she burns the neighbor's cat live in the front yard. I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her. No, I don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances. Co-signer, prepaid, double paid. No, thank you. Life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord. So that's what you're going to that's what you're going to face on more than anything else. So you're pleased, honey. Don't don't confuse this. And you're trying to do a nice good noble thing in a really naive and unwise way. That was kind. As best way to say it. And I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave, when you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind, and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off. You could have already sat down with your brother. You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off

27:44the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have fed out a long time ago. You either don't need to be a co-signer or nobody's going to let her live there. You're going to have to come up with another option, right? But it's always like, well, then I might do this. And then after that, I'm going to, you don't even know if all this is going to happen. You're so spun up about it. Just go find out. I co-sign for stuff when I was young and foolish. And I ended up paying it. One poor guy co-sign for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me. Yeah. 35 years later. So it's okay. It's valid. I mean, she got screwed. They didn't ultimately get, but I mean, she thought she did. And so I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17, 18 says in the scripture, one lacking in sense co-signs for another. When I co-signed, Judy, I was lacking in sense. If you co-sign this, the Bible says you're lacking in sense. I didn't say I get mad at God. Don't do it. That was pretty good. I mean, you kind of brought the

28:44Bible out. So there we go. I'm brought the Bible out. Yeah. That's the final right? That's the final one. That's the one. Open phones at triple eight, eight, two, five, two, two, five, Kim is in New York. Hi, Kim. How are you? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I wanted to know how to save money for mortgage on payment while you're paying the right. Very hard. It is. Yeah. How much debt have you got? I can go through the numbers and I can tell you how much debt have you got? Just give me the total. I want to save about 40,000. How much of that's your car? Well, Kimima has been together. He owes 16 and he owes about 20. Okay. How much is the car? My car total would be insurance. Is your insurance or just the car? No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car? About 16. Okay. Of your 40. Yeah, of your 40. So I have

29:50of it your car. Okay. So here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. So before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out. It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Because if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment. That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else. And then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple, but hard. This is the Ramsey Show. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts,

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32:11two two five Patrick's and Fort Worth. Hi Patrick. How are you? I'm doing good Dave. Good. How can I help? Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application. And I'm wanting to raise funds to get my MVP off the ground, right? And I've had a friend of mine and then offered to give me a loan to do this, but I've been listening to you since I was 12 years old, lost everything last year in a divorce, literally everything. And I'm wanting to go back up. But I don't want to give up my entire my entire percentage of my company and getting with a traditional investor. And I really don't have access to traditional investors. So I'm just kind of curious. Because it's kind of hard to crowd fund with a patent pending also. So I'm just kind of curious what you might have on that. Okay. So remind me again, the what the patent is on.

33:17Okay, it's on a mobile application. A mobile application. Like a phone application. Like an app for your phone. And why do you have to have a patent for a phone app? Well, it's just it's just something new that is, well, I mean, it's a I mean, you're going to put it in the Apple store and you're going to put it in the Google Play store. And people are going to download it onto their phone, right? Right. So there's just a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. I mean, I don't need a patent for that. Is it a copy right? You don't need a patent for that? No, no, he told me I couldn't cover it. But basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make a they couldn't make another, um, you know, uh, because there you can have started the process to patent a process in the app. It's like, okay, so all right. Let's stop. Okay. So how much are you spending to get the patent pending? So that's already I've already paid that. Okay. So you're done.

34:22Okay. So you've got it. So why do you need money to launch something in the Apple store? It doesn't cost anything. Well, well, the in order to get the in order to get the, um, the actual application built the MVP, the minimum rival products and and build that. Oh, you've not built the app yet. No, I don't. You're not depending the idea or the technology. No, the technology's not done. It's not. Okay. Are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer? I'm not. No, no. I've been alone since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've, I've, but I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over. Okay. So all you need is the engineering done. Right. You need, you need a software engineer, right? Mm-hmm. So what's it going to cost to turn this into the idea into an app?

35:24Uh, the lowest quote I've got is around 24,000, 24 to the $35,000. Okay. You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I put them up, taking them down off. Uh, we've got a little thing called the every dollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got, you know, tens of means, people in it and all that. Um, but even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So, um, I'm just trying to think, uh, how we would do it because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that you said you've been listening. I don't, I don't, I don't want to give up. I don't want to do it. I wouldn't do it. You know, what do I do? You know, I mean, he'd even told me he would get it to get five percent. No, no, no, no, no, you've been listening to us. You know, I was going to tell you not to go any of this. What's, what's your panic? Like, what's the, you feel panic? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent,

36:26can't you exhale and go earn 30,000 bucks? Well, the thing is, yes, I have probably eight to nine months left of the, of the saddest thing. My lawyer, he wants to do, he wants to do a non-provisional potentially 20 years protected, right? My uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but like, he, that's how he made his money. He invented like one of the largest crash compactures in the United States. I've run by the seat of my pants in business. How do you, how do you, yeah, I know, I can tell. What, what do you, do you have a job? Yeah, I'm a truck driver. So I've always, I've got my CDL and I've, I've bought and sold three different semi trucks, but I lost, I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying $3,000, nothing child support and I just ate in a lot. Um, I did have $15,000 in debt in that, but I, okay, let me stop you. Here, here, there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven

37:29of desperation. Like, you, you sound so desperate. You called it an application when you're talking to us, and it's not, it's a, it's a phone app for God's sake. This is not rocket search. Right. And so, and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate, and all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid, because every time I get that sound in my voice, like a beagle chasing a rabbit, that's about the time I'm about to do something dumb. And I, I can hear it on you. I'm just being honest with you. All right. So what I would tell you to do, what I would tell you to do is this, I would tell you to slow your butt down. Take a breath. Okay. That's what I'm going to tell you to do. And then if you want to proceed with this, the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate out of the proceeds. And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay. You know, it's $24,000 for this stuff. I'm

38:34going to pay you $48,000. The first $48,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out. And I'm going to pay you double. And then they're done. And the problem is as soon as you get the thing up and here's what I'll teach you about apps, they're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it. A hundred percent of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated. The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better. So your cousin, you're not frozen. When I print a book, it's either good or bad. I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book. When I put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along. And I will. And so every the every dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name every dollar originally. It has iterated

39:40and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years. And so your software engineering costs have just begun, my friend, if this is actually going to work and be successful. Your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill. The number of times that people steal something on Apple stores, just not that big. You don't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff and duplicating it. But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in and scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented. So I'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are patented just to give you an idea. And of course, here's the other thing. As soon as you patented, you're going to iterate it and change it. So then you got to update the dad gun. Yeah, this is, I don't know. So yeah, I do know. I would slow down, breathe. If you want

40:46to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them 2.0, what they're worth, but they only get paid out of the proceeds. And if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing. If it never works, they put in their money for nothing. If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like John said and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared as soon as you start making a little money, you're going to spend most of that back into new software engineering because you're going to upgrade and iterate. Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey show.

41:55Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real. It also means shopping. Y'all, if you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year named the lowest price US online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm. Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler, the holiday season a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for?

42:57So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one best selling author. I'm then a Ramsey person now. You're the number one person. That's it. I'll take it. Yeah, you're all of that. And number one show on the Ramsey Networks, not really, but a big show on the Ramsey Networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at AAA 825-225, Thomas's in South Dakota. Help us, Thomas. What's up? Hey, David. John, what's going on? I'm calling today because I'm 18 years active duty military. Thank you. Unfortunately, thank you. Unfortunately, a couple years ago,

43:59life happened and I landed up getting divorced. With that, before we got divorced, my ex-wife and I, we were completely debt-free and I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments 40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds. Wow. But now that I'm divorced, I've been divorced now for two years. I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt. What in the world? What did you buy in two years? So I bought a vehicle on your baby steps. What kind of truck is it? That's a Ford Raptor. Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas. It's definitely part of it. No, it's the whole thing. It's all that Taylor Swift should have said about it. It's your divorce Raptor truck. We know what it is. It's called, I'm the problem. It's me.

45:02So, I'm calling because I can pay the debt off pretty quickly. What do you mean? About $78,000 a year. You make $78 a year and you owe what on the Raptor? I owe $57. Well, I owe $37 on the Raptor and $18,000 in credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced. I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP. You can't afford to do that. So I was thinking, so my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. However, in the divorce, my ex-wife decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the TSP. I've still been contributing because in my head, I was like, I'd rather make a little bit home money on the back end versus stop contributing all together and out of spite, just not

46:04contribute because I don't want her to get in. When does she get half now? 67. What? No, I mean, that's not possible. Is this divorce isn't final, is it? It is, yes, sir. So when we went to court, there was, I had several different options that I could do. And you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67? Yes. Not half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there, that's not right. Something's wrong. Based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff, they said that was the better of the deal. Apparently, these lawyers didn't take math class. That's a horrible deal. All right, so you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces. I've never heard of this deal. This is what you

47:07got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her now. That is a normal process in a divorce and she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes. It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67. Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I did. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP. Yeah, that would be normal. But half the TSP today, not at 67. Well, now what the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension, she only get the TSP. Okay. Now, are it 67? 67 when it maturs. Okay. Then it should be half of your TSP today. 166. Okay. So half would be 84,000. Okay. Right?

48:15Yeah. Today. So whatever 83,000 grows to at age 67, she should get. But she shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then. Right. So that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing all together. You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you get half at 67. That's just very weird, dude. Like, like these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent weird. Okay. But if you did do that, you need to go back and clarify, is it what half of it today becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just half of whatever's in there? Because if it's half of whatever's in there, you don't

49:18put another dime in it. You're done with that. You got to go put money in Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff, but the TSP's off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next, you know, how many I may hold are you? I'm 36. Yeah. Good God for 30 years. You're going to contribute to her. But no, thank you. You did the worst deal ever. So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man. I'm telling you that I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him. This is horrible. But you did the deal. I guess it's final. So you need to go back and get clarity. If she gets what half, what 83,000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there, it's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the A3 out. They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb, but that did. So yeah, John is correct. It is whatever's in there later because I tried to fight and get

50:20the half now, but then there were like, then here's what here's what it is. She gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else because you're not going to anything else do it. You're stupid if you do. Okay. But you're the one that signed this divorce decree. Oh my god. This is a horrible man. It's just horrible. It's just 30 year claim on future earnings for you. Geez. You'll have kids. We have two of them. I've heard. I've heard a few. This is I want to get away from this woman really bad. This is what this is. I've heard I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18, right? So if you were making 25 grand until then you're making 150 grand. That's child support. That's not this. That's child support. That's normal. That's what I'm saying. I've heard of that. That's normal. But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal, but you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it. Okay. Your answer is you have a truck you can afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney. So you have two reasons

51:25for a broken heart. So you've got to sell this truck honey and I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them, but this truck is brain damage. So it's killing you. You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck, get your budget back balanced and move into the future and please don't put anything else in this TSP. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated and that's why I recommend Fair Winds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a

52:30no fee checking account, a high yield savings account and the new Ramsey Be Weird debit card that says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. It's not just a card. It's a statement because every time you use it, it says you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year stick to your plan. Don't chase gimmicks or points and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fair Winds is federally insured by the NCUA. Guys, student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse,

53:35but our question of the day is sponsor why REFI refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate. You couldn't get anywhere else. So go to why REFI.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter why RFY.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, my in-laws are too much to deal with specifically my mother-in-law. Abigail, she knows you wrote this. She don't know how mother-in-laws know they just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man. I've asked my husband to talk to her,

54:35but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out. You don't have a mother-in-law probably have a husband. You have a husband problem. You go whoosh. You're hard on mighty. That makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through our stuff without your permission. And even more uncomfortable as my wife said, I need you this to not happen again. And I said, I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm scared of my mommy. Oh my gosh. Abigail, you have a husband problem. It needs to run down to Walmart on Al-3 and pick up a backbone. Yeah, and some pamper while he's there, because he might TT in his pants while he talks to mommy. Y'all need to have this come. I mean, this is awful. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. This is awful. Mother-in-law is going to do what, here's the deal. I think if, and maybe she's controlling, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little

55:38baby the best she knows how. She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up. Yes. And she doesn't think you're loving him the right way, but she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old. And he's to grow up real real quick. Yeah. So, if you say a thing, you start a 10-year feud. You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to have a backbone. And this is out of line. There's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous. And it needs to stop yesterday. Tell him you want the locks changed and you want him to call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first that you're a married couple. And this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this. Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. He's not good anymore. And you don't need to

56:42come in our home anymore. It's a real short-com conversation. And he needs to man up and do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor. Correct. And by the way, to husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, hey, my wife doesn't want you coming in the house to move anymore. No. Goober. You be a grown-up and you say, I, I messed up. Leave and cleave. That's right. Leave your mother and father. We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. To your spouse. And mother-in-laws, don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them. Unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked you for your help. Don't do that. Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission. Yes. Of course. But I mean, that's obviously if you've been invited in. With a key that you had before they were married. So one of the best practical jokes we ever played

57:47was a key. Have you heard this one? No. I had a personal assistant 25 years ago. Beautiful Christian lady. And she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to a nice hockey game in Nashville. And the, um, the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key, went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, Sheree is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her. And like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her. It was so, it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's, that's much better than this one. This just makes me sad. Yeah. This is bad. Yeah. So, can I tell you this one thing? So one time, um, a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and, uh, there was a,

58:54couple friend of me and my wife's and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some, like, just somebody passed away or something. And I said, Hey, let's get them a house cleaner. Uh-huh. Just to come in and clean up and my wife looked at me and said, Are you crazy? So what do you mean? She said, You know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house. Oh, it'd be like an insult. It'd be insult. And so I've got to say mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex. Oh, right. It's a little bit of a flex. And so it's like cooking the lasagna. It's like the recipe you got for lasagna. You're going to take care of my little boy, the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom. It's like your underwear was folded wrong. That's it. So I'm sorry, honey. I'll do it for you. Yeah. And so yeah, it's grown up. Mother and law flex. This little thing makes me feel uncomfortable. They I never feel uncomfortable. This one does. This is like it's got it's got a little stalker

59:54esque. It does. She's got a key and she sneaks in like keyblers elves or something and cooks and just the laundry. No, because this kind of mother not leaves a note that says, Hey, I noticed things were messy. So I cleaned up in a vacuumed. You'll have a great night. And it's just like a little little flex. But if you say anything, it's like, Oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I won't help anymore. Yeah. Right. And the martyr out. Yeah. She'll definitely martyr. The old. Oh, okay. There's some there's some old dairy queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. I'll just eat the old clean X's and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when y'all get done, y'all just come out. It's the A. I did run into a guy the day this opening a new food truck called wherever you want to go. That's the cheese. Everybody asks where they want to eat, wherever you want to go. Okay, we're heading. We'll go right there. There used to be a great little honky-tonk in Lubbock, Texas called the library.

1:00:58Where are you going? Going library. I'm the honky-tonk. I'm going to love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. And I will admit that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control. It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And so that does not matter. And I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice. It requires a little bit of discipline. Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman. And I know the science of studying. I know the pedagogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for

1:01:59my whole career. And he's got to go through this first round of finals. Studying the way his, he rolls his eyes just, dude, I know. Okay. And right, and it's hard because I want to go in there and say, this is what he's got to learn this time. And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, I need some help. Yeah, that's right. And it's hard when you're precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right. Mother-in-law. Abigail's husband now. Abigail. Back up. Back up again. Be cool. Be cool, man. She has to stick her nose into everything. It's the move stuff while we weren't home. Ah! That one's weird. You know, they came back. The furniture's rearranged. It's kind of like misery. Yeah, it's got a stalker-esque thing to it. The penguin always faces Nora. This is the Ramsey show.

1:03:07Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we heard all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income, in coverage, no gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're

1:04:10single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money is still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander insurance for over 25 years and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast. It's easy and they could make all the difference. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself. Protect your income. Protect your family. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, this is the Ramsey Show. The phone number is 825-5225. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help we really can. Follow the show

1:05:14on the format or the platform that you're listening or watching. Click subscribe or click follow. It really helps our numbers big time because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it here about it. It's the best promotion we get. Also, you share the show. A lot of these apps and platforms have a share button or share feature and you can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it. I was listening to a podcast this week. Friend of mine was on Tucker Carlson. He said, hey, man, listen to this. I sent it to another friend of mine just like that. Tucker's got a great podcast. It's going big. It's going to zoom zoom right now. Listen to Joe Rogan's. It was going to zoom zoom. It's really good to send it. Just share it. Any time you read a good book, Jack Carr has got a new book out. If the day I did a terminal list, I read every one of his. I'm telling everybody, go get the new when it's good. It's very cool. So, Felkins brought me a copy of Jack's new book. Have you seen it? That's all that he signed it. And he shot it.

1:06:15Oh, I didn't see that. It's got a bullet hole in it. Fabulous. If you don't know, Jack, he's a former seal. And so these are all. It's a good for Navy seal books and they're like, shoot them up, spy movie type stuff and they're great books, fiction obviously. And yeah, but so it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I think I may want to do that with my next book. I think that would be fantastic. It has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which she just does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right. Kathy's in Philadelphia. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hello. I'm calling today with a question I can hope or I hope you guys can help me with. My husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill. And I was I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at. Okay. Currently. Okay. Um, so husband and I are like between baby steps five and six. I guess like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked

1:07:18that like specifically. This is child A. This is child B. There's their college fund. Um, they're pretty young yet. Um, three and five. Uh, we feel like we've got some time to. So you would pay cash for the solar. That's what we want to do. Yeah. Okay. How much is it? To the solar. Uh, the units about 53,000. Okay. And what is the, um, what's the break even on it? Uh, they say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years. We'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and F R E C and those things. Okay. That's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven year break even. And, um, most of the time that you see that you're going to get that, it's going to be in a area of the country that is, um, a lot of sun. Yeah. So I mean, like, you know, a Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing. You're, you know, that kind of thing. You're not going to, it's a little different than Philly and not Seattle. You know, that kind of stuff. So you're,

1:08:22you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break even meaning? What do you pay for it? How does, how quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy thus how fast it saves you money? I've watched the technology on that. Uh, it's probably five or 10 times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long, long way. It used to just be total crap. And now it's like, I actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on, you know, and I'm fine to do that as long. I don't endorse financing it, obviously. Um, but, um, but generally, I tell folks a five to a seven, uh, your eight is borderline. What I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles, you could take off. They would still get you, they would get you down to the 40,000 range or so,

1:09:24and that might get you to a six or a seven year break even. Maybe they got you, um, you know, with a convertible and power windows. I don't know, right? Right, right. Absolutely. You know, check that out and learn about that. That's what I would do if I were in this situation, but, uh, I'd run one more company too. Have one more company come over and get a give a bid and see what good I'd say. That's a good idea. Well, we ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75,000 down to 52,000 by pitting them against each other. So we kind of, that's about where I could bring in a third company, but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down 25,000 almost, that's a good start. That's a good start. Yeah, see, they got some margin in that crap, huh? That's cool. Okay. So I knew they were making bank, but, um, uh, I'm a fan of the technology. I'm not a fan of the, you're not doing this, but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go, look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill. No, that's dumb butt stuff because the things are attached to your house and then you're,

1:10:25you got a mess. You got a lean on your property. You got all kinds of mess. No, do not finance them ever. Do not finance anything ever. You're listening to Dave freaking Ramsey. Okay. So, but the, uh, but you're not doing that, but they're that's for everybody else. The, the technology has come a long, long way. I will tell you this, Kathy, I think it's going to go a long way further. So like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's attached to your house is crap. Okay. It'd be like you had a seven year old computer or a seven year old cell phone, you know, how much further it's come along. That's the pace of change in the technology. And so don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house. It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just, you know, what is a seven year old computer? A door stop. You know, that's what it is. You know, it's like what it has to boot up. You know,

1:11:28it's like, you know, where's the dots? What is this? What is this strange speech ball thing? You know, it's like, you know, so I even handed one of our audio guys an old iPod that I found and said, Hey, I want to pull the music off of it because my, I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. But I said, I want you to fill it with all country songs. And this, he looked at me like I had just handed him a box of antique dog turds. He's like, what is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. Fresh dogter. Yeah, probably could use the better analogy on your radio show, Dave, but our radio show, your radio show. There we go. Thank you. But yeah, it was, it was strange. But hey, he took it back and figured it out, man. There you go. Well, because he's that guy, Alex is with us. Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you? Good. By yourself, David and John. Good. How can we help? Yeah, my wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have on seven properties. One of them is my partner, resident and six investments. Three of the investment properties are paid off.

1:12:32And we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them. You'd be 100% dead free. Including my family. Yes, sir. I would do that. Right now. Yes. I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex, but I like being dead free more. I agree. And we were trying to hold on to the not-so properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future. But you'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments. I see. How much you can stack cash with no payments to be able to buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free. That's what I started doing about 20 years ago. And I've got quite a large amount of real estate now. I can ask one more quick question. Got on the topic of real estate. Yes, sir. On the property is that once they're out paid off, would you recommend I continue to keep the

1:13:34homeowners insurance? Yes. I'm in Florida. I'm homeowner's insurance. It's not homeowner's. It's Fire and EC. It's not technically homeowner. Homeowner's is for owner occupied only. But Fire and EC, you know, you got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about your being in Florida. A super expensive. You're right. Just run the analysis on it and go, how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by hurricane? What would you do? I wish you had insurance. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. That's what I'm think. I run a worst case scenario through my emotional filters and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show.

1:14:36Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market. You can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically and get this. Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre-approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer

1:15:36rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. Homebuyer edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only, and not available in all states or locations. In the MSID-1591, in the MSconsumerexas.org Eagle Housing Lender. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. Open phones. A AAA8255225. Cory is with us in Washington, DC. Hi, Cory. How are you? Hi, I'm well. Thanks. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living. I went through a

1:16:36divorce, which was a really terrible relationship, and jumped into my mother's home for the time being, which has been way too long now. In the process, I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan, which I've been paid off. You paid off all the credit card debt, and all the, and the car, both? Yes, all that. Way to go. How long have you been there? I have been here for six years. Oh, so I paid that off, and I've saved, and I went back to school all in that time, and got a decent job, and now make three-time gamut that I was. What are you making? I started my job. Now make one 18. Why are you still there? Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for home. I've been outbid several times by like $40,000. How are you? 45. Okay. Why have you not gone and just rendered something?

1:17:40You're debt free, and you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something. Yeah, the rentals around here for a three-bedroom. I have three kids and myself. For a three-bedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money. My income has gone up each year pretty substantially, so I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to a point where I could potentially make it work, and then the rents go up, and the more prices on the houses go up, and of course the interest rates are up. So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably into. So now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home? The secret to happiness is lower expectations. You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do. You probably won't be able to catch that

1:18:40carrot, and I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high school living with their grandmother. Yeah, and that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to go to school. But the point is that you have painted yourself a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices. Okay. And you're not. With, so I get paid bi-weekly, and I get paid about $2,600. Again, my income just went up in January. I was getting paid several hundred less a month last year and a year before. So with that, what can I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills. If I understand you right, you're debt-free, and you have how much saved? About six, it's close to 60. And you make $118,000 a year, and you have three children.

1:19:45Did I understand all of that right? Yes. And you did all of that in six years coming out of a broken toxic horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you. And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing. Well done. Well done. You've really accomplished a lot here. And the thing I think I'm hearing, and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that probably in the marriage and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in, or both nicer than the home that you can afford now, and you're having trouble with that. Probably, yeah. I definitely looked at lowering some of my living, you know, that what I'm used to. But the home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home? No. So the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in. No. And you're not damaged because of that.

1:20:45Yeah. I mean, this health is okay. It's not like fantastic or anything like that. Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. Okay. That's a point. And your childhood home, though, you might, and your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the, the real estate channel on, you know, being redone by Chippin, Joanna. Okay. So I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish the sustainability of your own life. Whether that's an inexpensive rental, and you have a little bit too far of a commute, or it's not a stellar piece of property that lines up with all of your, all of your wants, but does cover your needs. But I think you've set your, I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick. And I'm going to pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it. I think it's probably both. And it's, it's moved the carrot out and the housing market has gotten tough. So it's in DC. I'm not saying

1:21:50it's not tough. But I'm saying the way she can enter the market, Matt, $120,000 a year with a $60,000 dollar down payment is probably not, I mean, DC is super expensive. Right. You're going to be outside of DC. You're not, you're not buying a, that's it. You're not buying a place in DC proper. You're not buying a place in LA or San Francisco. You know, that used to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it, but not anymore. Right. And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where your expectations were based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you. But it may mean that you go somewhere else. And I, Dave, I, this is like a thing I want to be emphatic about. There's going to be things you want to give your kids, like she even mentioned, and I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she has recognized yet is they have a

1:22:53mom who is extraordinary. The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't, they didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It was, it wasn't into things. It was I had two parents that always scratched and clawed and both of them had midlife career changes. And I watched them flourish and lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids. And it's not something that you can buy. It's something you witness. And so go get a town home if that's all you can afford. And two of your kids can share rooms and they're going to be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them and they're watching you blaze a path. That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff is gravy. The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero. There's a lot of kids I'm telling you right now. I just had this conversation this weekend in Utah with their behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have

1:23:56never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it. And then they go to college or then they get married in their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about someone because somebody said, Oh, the access to the world does not run through the top of your little head. I know. I've talked to every residence hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met and I've always asked them just privately shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say the right thing to do. Developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms, their own bathrooms, their own world pool tub. So I have to make these single ones. But if it was if I was a king for a day, you mean there's not a skylight? Everybody has to share room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No. Yes. Kids can share rooms. They're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that. So you've got to get them a gift Corey. They can change schools. It's okay. It's okay. You've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then

1:24:59standing knee deep in that manure and flourishing. It's amazing. And using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. I think your real estate is just I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So that's going to mean you either that you change probably the neighborhood you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting. And it may be a long commute. It may mean a complete move. It may mean a lot of other things. And that's not to say I think that Washington DC real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is the Ramsey

1:26:08show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey your host Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality. Number one best selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney show on the Ramsey networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five Daniels in New York City. Hi Daniel. How are you? I'm Mr. Ramsey a big fan of the show. Me and my girlfriend were both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well sorry we have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially well we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what you thought

1:27:13were. The data is not in your favor. Yeah I'm aware I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the co-habitation data longitudinally just for earned income and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention the statistics run the relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating? Four years. Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on? I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for six months to a year prior. I would like to do it. It's just that I'm also heeding their advices. How old are you? My parents. I'm 25 26 and a month. Okay so if you if you already have your if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them. Where are you calling two strangers on a

1:28:15podcast? I was just curious what your guys' opinions was. You already knew. Yeah you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the date and you're like yeah I already knew that. Right. We both think we're very like financially found we've saved up a bunch of money. So I'm just curious if that changes anything or no. No because how old were you when you got married? Me? Yeah. 24. Okay. I was 22. Yeah. I've been married 43 years. I'm 23 and a half. I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them. I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. I respect John and I disagree with him sometime. Yeah. We disagree all the time. Not really. And I'm usually right. Not really. That's even hard. Really. Let me take this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl?

1:29:16Yes sir. Okay. At some point you're going to have to say ask for me in my household. Yeah. Your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son. They can only advise you. Right. So my next question. And neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do. Yes sir. Understood. So we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for engagement ring or rings in our area for like New York City and Long Island. It's really expensive for rent. We've traveled to a few cities. We just other than like we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions we graduated together with associates degrees. Okay. Well that's a completely

1:30:19different set of questions. Separate from what you called about. Right. Yes sir. Okay. All right. So yes one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. And yes one fourth of your take home pay is the most you need to put into rent. Not for household expenses but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money. Your house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50 percent regardless of where you live. So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take on a little bit higher rent then that doesn't kill you. But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take home you got a bad formula. It's not you're going to struggle with that one. Oh but they're in New York so all rents can be free from knowing that they're going to be good. Yeah. No too soon. Plus your minus the rats. Oh yeah. Okay. Um and I'm not talking about the

1:31:22rodents but yeah. Okay. Yeah I don't know. It's um no Daniel. The math still has to math even in New York. And so yeah you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business if you can't move up quickly enough with your associate's degrees into sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility too. Lots of people leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began people have done that until they can afford to do it. And so um you know and in New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco. I mean these are this is the list right. Paris these are very uber expensive to live in not just because they're recognizable major

1:32:23metro areas but just think an expensive period. And so try running a flat in London. Whew. I'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up Scott? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. My wife and I we are almost done with baby sub two. I'm 49 years old. And I was approached today that work to purchase a long-term care policy. It's nursing home care says it. Yeah it says if you become chronically ill life benefit term. You don't need it. That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main? The main deal is long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. The percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero. So we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got 10 million

1:33:25dollars don't buy it just self-insure. Just pay for the nursing home or pay for in-home care or whatever you're going to do. But if you're you know you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old and the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically the guy dies before the lady, 75% of the time. And so Papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money and then dies, leaves mama broke. That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40. 49. 49. You don't need it until you're 60. I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it. That's where I was. I was a little hesitant. And I have a life insurance policy, you know, a term life that's done, I guess, until I'm yes, that's 75 it ends. I also have insurance through the military. Should I be purchasing any other life insurance you need if about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family

1:34:32if you die. And that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown. Hopefully they'll be gone. And so that's that's the game plan and you'll be out of debt and have some money. And so you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance. Buying and selling a home is a big deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back

1:35:34from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent RamseySolutions.com slash agent. So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There was these new things on your phones called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsey should have an app that would do your budget. And we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really over the last decade or so, the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called every dollar because every dollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go give it a name. Well, what is ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years,

1:36:38we've invested a bazillion dollars in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way. So like you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do with this baby step or what do I do there? What do I do there? And we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of every dollar. So the all new every dollar we just relaunched it the other day. And it's a complete game changer. You can watch the premiere on your on our YouTube channel and see see how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get get get into the every dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the baby steps framework

1:37:41and the Ramsey way, so to speak. And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity. Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The all new every dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you? Good, guys. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college years ago. So we decided to go to home or forever home. And the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. There's a different story behind that, but they're very accumulated some wealth over the years. They've handed us over a lump sum of money to help us build this house. And whatever's left over, we will pay back and

1:38:42a mortgage payment to them. Me and my wife make about 130,000 a year before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working, about 120,000 dollars in savings. I'm sorry. My question. My question. I have 120,000 dollars in savings. Why the flip did your parents have to give you money? They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. And so they want to help every single one of their kids out. I'm one of three brothers. Yeah, but you made me look like you got in trouble and they bailed you out. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. So what happened with the house? You got you bought too much house? What's the deal with the house? Yeah, so we're building. Oh, you're still building. Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. Oh, you just started building. Yeah, so the deal was with them was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with my parents. I work for them, actually. And they wanted to, this is what they wanted to do for us. And so we kindly accepted it.

1:39:49And any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, we would pay back to them at a mortgage. And so I guess my question is, is me and my wife are still young? We're 24, and I think in my kids right now, do we give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning? Or do we have some of that keep most of it in travel and have fun in early 20s? So do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel? That's an essence what this where this lands. When I say it that way, does it sound as crazy to use it does to me? Yeah, a little bit. Okay. Yeah, no. You like did grown up stuff and went bought a house at 24 years old, pay for your stinking house. And then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Very good. The surest way, the surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you. Okay. And I know that's a weird hard thing to say at

1:40:5124 especially when you got two people who are like, no, it's no big deal, it's no big deal. Just take it from two older guys, clear the money between your relationship so that it can stay as good as it is right now. I think I heard a two-stage deal here. Like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough. And so then they loaned you more. Is that right? Yes, they loaned us the full amount of whatever costs for the house we're paying for it and cashed to build. So they're not taking loan out from any, they've been completely debt-free since 2008. I know, but you know of them. Yeah. A mortgage payment. Okay, so that part where they went through financial peace university, they flunked the class because we tell you not to do that. Ever. Don't ever loan your children money. Oh my god. Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. Yeah, the borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master. Yeah. Okay. That's going to be painful for your wife. I'm not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

1:41:52Understood. So how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on? Probably going to be around 200 to 250,000. Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you? Um, about 50% of the total cost to build. So about 200 to 250,000. So you're 24 years old. You make 130 and you got a 400, $50,000 house. Yes. Dang, Gina. Okay. It's a lot of house, dude. That's a lot of house. All right. Well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation. Yes, you need to 100 do the, take the 130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents. Okay. Because I don't want this mortgage. I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest.

1:42:54I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to your up instead of paying back back. Here's what I would see. I can see myself working really hard so that I can, I can bulldoze the path for my son and his new wife. I get that. But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, Dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage. And then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your, like, I don't want you to be my banker. I would be so proud. And in a way, you're kind of, not showing them up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking this, but I'm taking the reins here. It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can't dad because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It just ends in somebody wanting you to

1:43:54do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to. And it's like, well, after all, we've, it just, it's just a recipe for disaster. But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. So 120,000 or more. The tiny, tiny, tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as you'll make. If you don't go on trips. Yeah. If you don't go to Europe. And by the way, you're, I don't know, David, trips are more fun when I'm older now. I don't know why they just are. Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home. But in essence, that's what this ends up being. I don't have, I don't have to send you the amount we borrow from mom and dad by the amount that we spend on the trips. And so it's black borrowing on the trip, borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously that would be ludicrous. So moms and dads, those of you that graduated from financial peace university with a better grade than that mom and dad got, which was an F. Here's the rule. Okay. If you want to give

1:44:56your children some money and they pay cash for a house. And part of that bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family to be completely changed. Great. Never make your child, your grown child, your slave. You change your relationship with your daughter and law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship and how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you're more unintended, but they're very real. And no one is the exception. Even a nice master is a master. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money, but still stuck? I was you. In debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back turns out it's not the

1:45:57numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about money, to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 and free bonus items, but only if you order by January 5th go to RamseySolutions.com slash store today. Dr. John DeLone Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt freeze stage. Deema and Ronda are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hey Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you two live? We live in Durham, North Carolina.

1:47:00I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville and good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? We've paid off $266,192. How long did this take? Four years and eight months. And your range of income during that time? Our starting salary was 138,000 and our ending salary was 284,500 dollars. Look at you too. What do you want to do? What do you do for a living? Well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company, so I'm a compensation in the compensation role. Okay. I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well. Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks. For real. I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor. I'm also a professor as well. Very good. Good for you guys. That's awesome.

1:48:01Thank you. So what kind of debt was the 266? Yeah, so it was a car loan credit card in Deema's grad school. Absolutely student loans. So my student loans were 150,000 and Ronda's were 100, yeah, that's undergraduate graduate and doctorate. Yeah, and so for me, I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution. And then I went on and got a master's after that. So we'll talk about like telling it on. Yeah. Okay. So how long have you two been married? Oh, this year we're celebrating 10 years. So halfway through five years ago. Yeah. Something happened. What happened? What set you off on this? He decided to go get that last degree. And we were already like, if you want to think about it, we were like 800 and something and student loans just me with Deema's student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like mind you,

1:49:04we had just had a little one in 2017 and Deema started school and like we cannot take on my loans daycare. And then when Deema get like his student loans, we were scared. Like, what's that going to look like? Yeah. It just kept stacking up till it got scary. Yeah. It got really scared. Then what happened? What'd you do? I mean, we were graduates of the Financial Police Institute University. So I think we were just kind of paking at baby steps, baby steps. But when we realized what we're going to be under with all the students, we were just like, we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional. Time to get hardcore. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So you lean in. Yeah. And what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did? Oh, we we started doing the monthly monthly meetings talking about our finances, hard conversations, hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash. And if it wasn't on our our monthly, you know, things that we had talked about them, we weren't doing it.

1:50:05What would you say? Who's the spender? Hopefully you would. Oh my god. Dave. Well, your shoes are shot from here. Your watch is blinding me. Let me say this. He for his birthday. He's like, Oh, let's go. Let's get this car. Let's let's test drive it on his birthday. We ended up walking away with a car. So I would say Dave, after we got intentional, that car we sold it and we were upside down. So we're like, but we can't. And we made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars. And that was really the testament that he was able to say, Hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt and sold the car. Being debt free was more important. Absolutely. You all've made it incredible combined salary together. Both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y'all drive up and y'all drive in $40 million dollars cars. Now, you know, we still own. I have a 2010 Mazda. Yeah. That's great. It runs great. You're doing his compensation. Yeah.

1:51:10Yes. Yes. Absolutely. You know, we're like, Hey, we can get rid of this. Like, you know, we think about gas prices and things like that. But it's making us more intentional. And saying, like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do? Definitely humbling ourselves. And having faith in the process was a struggle, but, you know, that definitely say be persistent and resilient. Absolutely. Because you know what Dave like we're all taught to like pay off that but then it's like what do you do after you pay off that and so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off that. Over years I mean that's not how that pattern right there. Right right absolutely. We're years of doing nothing. Yeah basically. But you know what one of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say what are we going to do and I remember our birthday we had a hundred dollars and said we were going to do with that we went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip and it's like we packed sandwiches we everything was free and we're like wow and I'm like I'm still talking about that birthday. So it's like be humble and you'll be surprised I think

1:52:12even Dima made me a birthday cake. So it was box but you know it was it was good and it was humbling to us. There you go. And Dima can I tell you being a professor, being a mental health practitioner. Yes. I've always wondered if you want to do this this scientific study I'll put it on the air for you. I always wondered if you're somebody in the helping profession if you're a professor how much do you have to curb what the research says how much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say because you're not really supposed to say that and I owe somebody money and now the students that you're going to be teaching they're going to get unfiltered you because nobody nobody you know nobody's telling you to do anymore. No knife over you. And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these these clients of yours. Here's the truth because I don't know anybody anything man I can I can speak from here now. Does that make sense? Yeah absolutely and I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt-free just the freedom if you will. Like you mentioned Dr. John like that freedom that you have to kind of

1:53:19you have that discretionary income if you will. We're still working through the baby steps but you have more freedom and there's no there's no one there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. Thank you. Thank you. How does it feel? Oh I mean Dr. John you said it it just to not owe anybody anything like really what can we do now it's really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers in like how do we give back it's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're just like just ready and then fire it up about it. It's refreshing like our budget meetings are it's a different it's a different vibe. We can't thank you to thank you to oh my god. Oh my god. Oh Ramsey crew. Yeah thank you all. Well way to go y'all we're proud of you. Thank you. This is one of the rare couples that they both married well. You're both did all right. Thank you. We won out in our marriages but you're both did well.

1:54:25Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's great. Very well done you too. Very well done. All right it's Dima and Rhonda from Durham North Carolina 266 thousand dollars paid off in four years and eight months making 138 to 284 count it down. Let's hear a debt freeze cream. Three two one. We're debt free. Yeah. I love it. Well done. Very well done. Yeah I guess the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically but it's particularly I never thought of it in a university setting that's very interesting that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck so you can just kind of go here's the truth. Well and you you said the table and this is what this is how we're going to teach this or this is how

1:55:28we're saying this or if you have this belief you're stupid and if you owe a whole bunch of money you kind of got to put your head down and go to the next thing. Got a bunch of time yeah. And so now Dima's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen man. Why do you go heroes? This is the Ramsey show. Listen up guys because I've got a big question for you where will you be with your money at the end of 2026 will you be better off worse or exactly the same believe it or not you get to choose

1:56:32look I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money but I want you to hear me you're more in control than you think you can turn your finances around so let me help you out start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free every dollar live stream event on January 8th we're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck so you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead and you could even win two thousand dollars just for signing up listen another year is gonna pass anyway so decide that this is the year you're going to take that control of your life and your money go sign up for the free live stream at every dollar dot com slash live stream our scripture day second Corinthians one four he comforts us all in our troubles so we can

1:57:33comfort others when we when they are troubled we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us Jordan Peterson says face the demands of life voluntarily respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe amber Lee is with us in concord new Hampshire hey amber Lee how are you I'm good how are you better than I deserve what's up well I my husband and I have made a series of really bad financial mistakes and we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year what kind of mistakes well we were house poor um we bought a duplex that um you know where it's overwhelming we have to wait we pay about three grand a month and uh he only make about 60 grand gross so what why would you wait a year you're drowning I know he

1:58:43what is it you're waiting well I I'm the main person uh who does the budget and I was I was just I for some reason it seems like we make we we do somewhat make a little bit more money if I say in here but I feel like it's wrong like I feel like it'd be better if we can move I'm confused you feels like you make more money math is not a feeling do you make more money or not well we we make 60 gross 60 grand gross and then um we also get 2,500 a month from the other side and so I don't know I probably should and we're we're do you not like being a landlord amber Lee no okay I don't let's solve it yeah be honest about the problem is I can hear it says this

1:59:44thing's a brick around your neck yeah your sanity is not worth it yeah yeah yeah and I am house it is and we found out that our our tenant has been running the water um 24 7 and and so we're sorry I'm just a little overwhelmed being on the air sorry um it's okay you're good we've never lost a patient you're okay yeah and um I I want to and we're in we're in this market where I know that we could technically you know this house would appreciate but it doesn't matter I do want to give it doesn't matter it's not it's not fun no everything in this conversation says you're not having fun no this house has not been a blessing it's been a curse yeah and tiktok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex rent the other side don't pay your mortgage and you're gonna and now it's not fun you found out tiktok was wrong oh there's a shock

2:00:49yeah yeah yeah yeah so and to put it on the market like next month or I mean by Friday yeah Friday Friday Friday sounds good okay I'm not kidding okay I'm not kidding if I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake I'm still going to admit the mistake I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done otherwise every time you drive up the driveway you're going I don't feel really good about me yeah and you can't be the wife you want to be you can't be the mom you want to be you can't be the employee you want to be it affects every every square inch of your life you're not you're not having fun we can hear it and it's not just you're scared to be on the air it's your whole situation right yeah I mean if you had a house payment you could afford you could breathe again you're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now yeah it's overwhelming I'm scared yeah I can we can hear it

2:01:57and and it's not going to be a mean to you I've been exactly where you are that's how I can identify it I smell it I know what it feels like and so the thing is that the faster you act on this the quicker you're going to get peace yeah and peace is really our goal here you got plenty of time to buy a different house plenty of time to make different real estate decisions sell this thing and go run an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit and then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate you can do this okay so go to Ramsey Solutions.com and click on real estate ELPs for Ramsey trusted real estate agents people we trust that we have vetted and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP that's what I would do if I were in your shoes I like real estate but I hate real estate isn't that interesting because I see what it does to people

2:02:57when you do it wrong including me it leaves a mark it's not fun Alejandro is with us in Miami what's up Alejandro oh excuse me sorry I just drank water no choice yes my question is is it worth it to go to college now the reason why I'm asking that is because I have a you know my brother he's basically studying in U.S. and he's been going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors now he's a you know straight student and everything and my my worry some is that his debt is five digits so no yeah five digits basically so he's going from like let's say from nine thousand to sixty thousand and like the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous right and what are we asking about you or him how was that

2:03:57this is more for for him than it is for myself well he's already made his decision right right but what I want to know is that like from what I see in the market overall I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off as in like a story that he was telling me is that oh hey there's a position that they like his degree but they're only offering like seventy thousand instead of the range of the college promised him and that's kind of like you know what is what is his degree going to be in to continue the sports medicine okay and so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine sixty sixty thousand okay and this is a four-year degree um this is uh it's it's becoming eight he did four then he got he got his master oh so he's getting a PhD in sports medicine yeah yeah well that's not necessary okay in that

2:05:00field so the answer but but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college because yes it's okay to go to college college is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace the problem was your brother over dead it he got two more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space or at least one more that he could afford and if he wants to move up then he gets his master's do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space yeah unless oh maybe if you're going to go for an NFL team or something they may want you to have a doctor by your name but who knows I don't even know the particulars of that but the college is going to give you a range and when they give you a salary range those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska it's all over the place and so don't blame the college he's got to do his own research and say what does it pay in in the area that I want to live and yeah I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70,000 job I agree I agree with you Alejandro that's not worth

2:06:05absolutely not and um you can get a lots of $70,000 jobs for four year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder so if you're just looking at return on investment the trades are awesome there's a gap right now in the marketplace and they get paid beautifully but to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect not a factual statement it's not a factual statement getting a degree in stupidity left handed puppetry or German polka history and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous and so that's dumb but you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that saying all higher ed is bad that's just not true no the data six my my kids are going to go to college yeah mine too so I did yeah there you go that puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

2:07:10you