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Normal is broke and common since it's weird, so we're here to help you transform your

life from the Ramsey Networks and the Credit.

The Fair Rims Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm the Ramsey Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one best selling author.

Co-host a smart money happy hour on the Ramsey Network.

And my daughter is my co-host today.

Ryan is with us in Chicago.

So my question is, can I save more than a thousand dollars before and baby step two?

What's the purpose?

Is something happening?

Is there going to be a job change?

Are you guys expecting a baby?

What's the reason?

No problem.

So I'm 34 years old.

No mortgage, no kids, no personal loans.

I did just transfer to another location, same job, to move towards my family.

So I have about, I'm just thinking about, do I pay off debt before saving or try to do.

I'm just wondering, do you have no personal loans?

No, I'm sorry, like actually from a lender, but I do have two personal loans, student and car, my apologies.

Okay, how much is your loan?

Those are personal loans, okay.

How much in student loan debt is it?

23,000.

Okay.

23,000.

23,000.

Both.

Yes, each.

23,000, each, okay.

And what do you make?

Take home is 2800 a month.

Okay.

And you already made the move.

So you're settled or you're about to.

I'm about two in about two weeks.

Okay, gotcha.

And how much do you have in savings?

I have 90,000 and 401K, 3000 investments, nothing in savings.

Three, that what's the investments?

What's the 3000?

Is that retirement like a Roth or is it just it brooked your account?

No, just a brokerage account.

Okay.

How are you planning on cash flowing the move with?

Well, fortunately, it actually won't cost me any money to move.

My family's going to help me.

So the moving is actually not going to be difficult.

And I'm actually going to get paid the same.

And I'm going to start there just like kind of the lateral move.

Okay.

So they're jumping in helping with the physical move.

Yeah.

And you're moving from where to where?

Northern Wisconsin to Illinois.

Okay.

Gotcha.

I mean, if I were you Ryan, I'm okay if you don't do anything for two weeks

when it comes to the baby steps, get moved.

Start the new job, settle in.

And then once everything is there, then yeah, I would start with taking 2000 out of that investment account

and throwing it at this debt.

And you're making 2800 a month.

Is that what you said?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it'll be your income is going to be a major factor in you getting out of this debt.

I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, $46,000.

And so you finding any margin because you probably are not, you're not going to have it to the margin.

I'm assuming after rents and food and everything.

Is the trajectory on this job going to take this income up pretty quickly?

Because you're not making much.

I understand.

The trajectory is actually a lateral move.

No, I mean, after you make the move, are you going to be making double this in two years or something?

That is my goal.

I am planning to kind of do some studying internally with my company and hopefully move up into another position.

What kind of job is that, Ryan?

Ironically low level finance position.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, as there's another thing coming into play too here, is you have a car you can't afford.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, you make $40,000 a year, you have a $23,000 car.

That's just ridiculous.

So unless your income is going to come up pretty dramatically, pretty quickly over the next two or three years,

this car is going to really hold you back.

And I'm going to, if I'm going to look at selling that car, not this week and nothing like that,

but I mean, six months from now, you're settling in, you're going to see that what Rachel said is true.

There's not a lot of wiggle room in this math to be able to aggressively attack this debt.

And I don't want you hanging out in this debt for like three years or five years or something.

So I'm going to take extra jobs.

I'm going to move up through the company.

We're going to get this income up to double pretty quick with side hustles or whatever and start really chunking on this.

Because then the $1,000 doesn't become a thing because we're not suggesting people keep $1,000 as a permanent plan.

This is just while you're getting rid of your debt and totally focusing on your debt.

And honestly, the difference in $3,000 and $1,000 is nothing.

So it's not even symbolic.

I mean, if you have a problem, and it's $8,000 problem of some kind, some kind of an $8,000 emergency,

you're just as screwed with three as you are with one.

So the purpose of the one is not because it's enough.

We're going to take it down and we're going to completely focus on getting out of debt.

And that would include getting your income way up and very possibly selling this car to get this stuff cleaned up.

Yeah, because you are not making any money.

Because if you sell the car Ryan and get a beater, $2,000 extra a month just going to this debt you're out in a year.

So, I mean, if you can do this quickly, that's the point of the intensity.

It's going to cost you another year living on the edge if you keep the car at least.

And that living on the edge meaning you're not doing anything but working all the time with your extra jobs and everything else.

And that's what it's going to take. So I personally wouldn't do that for a car.

Melissa's in San Antonio. Hey, Melissa, how are you?

Hi, Dave and Rachel. How are you all better than we deserve or what's up?

Go ahead. I just have a question. Is there ever a time on baby 45 and six that you baby steps for five and six that you would be okay with not investing the full 15% into retirement?

Why do we not want to be wealthy?

We do want to be wealthy. My husband and I have been listening for about a year.

We paid off $100,000 in debt. And we are, we've built our emergency fund.

And I have a kid that I'll be a four children, one is in college.

And we did not plan well for college. And so we're trying to get him through without student loan debts.

And it's just a little tight. So I didn't know if there was like for a short time, if you would ever suggest I don't suggest it.

Instead, I'm probably going to think about where he's going to school and how much that costs.

Yeah, he's going to an in-state school, small school. It is commercial aviation.

And so unfortunately, that's what looks expensive in our college. He has a college fund, but it's just not going to cover it.

And so we were going to try to. Yeah, and watch your household income.

300,000. Okay. And this kid's looking for a hundred grand, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And he's he's already so he used to college fund. He's on year two, but the college fund is about gone.

How many years is how many years is that he needs another 50 grand? Yeah. Yes. Sure.

I think you can cash flow the 50 grand input 15% in. You just got to decide that him going to school is a priority over your lifestyle.

Yeah. Cutting lifestyle before cutting retirement. I would. I mean, you can do it if you want. It's your life.

But the math on it is not good. And when they make 300, so. Yeah. I'm just saying the math on cutting it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not it's not appealing. Yeah.

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If you're working the baby steps, that's the best and fastest way to get out of debt and into wealth.

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It's like having one of us walking with you every day. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the app store or Google play. Michelle is in Toronto. Hi, Michelle. How are you?

How good can you meet? Absolutely. How can we help?

Thanks for taking my call. I'm currently working in a job that I don't like, but I need good money. And I'm working into switching into like the trades.

I have an opportunity for an apprenticeship, but it would be free. But I wouldn't be working for three months. I'm in baby steps to an additional.

So no, I should take opportunity and ask them a feature that way. No, you don't quit your job and make no money when you're deep in debt. You keep working and you get the debt cleared so that you can quit your job. And so what is what are you doing now?

I'm a city bus driver. Okay. And what would you be doing when you take the new position?

So it's an apprenticeship program. I would be working part time. It would be free. It would be for construction and then an apprenticeship, a paid apprenticeship after the three months.

And then I'm sorry, what in construction requires an apprenticeship?

So in Canada, you do like construction for carpentry, electrician, all of that. So you learn a little bit of everything. And then they place you with the union for the apprenticeship with them in the area that you excel in.

Okay. And how much would you be making after the three months?

They usually start at 33 an hour, but it goes up because you would continue growing.

What are you making now? What are you making now an hour as a bus driver?

With over time last year, I made 80,000. I take 1900 by weekly.

Okay. So this is after the apprenticeship is break even, right?

Yeah, but I don't like what I'm doing right now. So that's what's really pushing me to try to how much debt do you have?

I do that way. I'm 15,000. I have a car and credit card.

Okay. How much is the car debt?

I have six thousand on it. Okay. And nine on a credit card.

Okay. Yeah. I'm just going to roll up my sleeves and knock those two things out and then save up a good down payment.

How are you planning on living while you made no money?

I would work part time where I will currently work as a casual and I currently live with my family and my parents.

So I would just. Yeah. How old are you?

I'm 33. Okay. All right. The other thing I want you to think about while you're doing this, before yes, I would clear off the debt before I went into a apprenticeship and cut my page dramatically.

You need the money to clear the debt, but you should be able to clear it really fast. You got no overhead.

You're making 80,000 dollars and you only need 15. So you should do this in just a matter of months, not a matter of years.

Okay. Mathematically you should. And then the other thing I want you to investigate is the only thing you've looked at is the union track.

And I am sure that they're not positive, but I feel relatively sure that it's somewhat like the states and that you can go the union route or you can go the non-union route, which by the way will put you to work a lot faster.

And so I would investigate going to work on a construction site and start making 30 dollars an hour. And just like that. And then start to learn while you're there.

Yeah. Do some investigation. Yeah. Investigating in that field, Michelle, before you make that decision. But honestly, yeah, if you're bringing around probably 6,000 home a month, if you could throw 4,000 at this, you're done.

And I mean, four months. So then we can pick up the internship and look to see, you know, in the future, because I would want you to change jobs. I understand if you just, if you hate it. And that's not a way to do life. But for four months, I would do that and over time. Like what you're doing and just get this dead knocked out.

Yeah. Because if you don't have the dead hanging over your way, you're trying to make the transition. You're more likely to pull it off. And I want you to pull it off. I agree with the move.

I just, I'm not going to hop, you know, immediately on that. So let's clear the debt and then move in that direction. Ashley's in peoria. Hey, Ashley, what's up?

Hi, good to talk to you guys. You too. How can we help?

So we were lucky enough during co-grid to refinance for a 15 year loan at a 1.75%.

So we have eight years left and we owe $86,000 on our house.

We used to homeschool, but now my girls are going to private school, like 15 to 20 miles away.

And because of that, I am going into town two to three times a day.

The last two days, it was 80 miles per day. You just never know, no miles per hour miles per day or whatnot.

So my question would be for both of you, would it make sense for us to just get rid of our 1.75 that we only have eight more years left and move into town where we would be closer to the girl school.

We would not be able to, you know, be in the car so much my youngest is not even in kindergarten yet. My oldest is in freshman.

So I do have a lot more years to do this, but 12, you know, if you stay at that school and stay in that house, it's 12 years from kindergarten to senior year.

Yeah, exactly.

Do you work actually or your husband?

Yeah, so I currently stay home, obviously in next year when she's in kindergarten, might be a little different.

So yes, my husband does work full time.

And he brings in like $2,300 by monthly.

Why are you making five trips a day?

I'm not making five trips. I'm making at least three. Why?

To driving there.

And then picking them up and then in the evening, I might be having piano or one of the girls might have golf or we might have something at church.

So we're back in place.

I agree with you where you're like, why are you even doing that?

The piano is at the school.

The piano is at a local college.

Oh, so there's nothing to do with the school decision.

No, no, no, golf is at the school.

Golf is at school, but at a golf course.

Yeah, but I mean, it's through the school.

The church obviously is separate.

So the piano and the church was already there.

Yes, but your life is 20 miles from where you guys live.

Yeah, yeah, especially we want to be more involved in the school.

We want to be more involved in church.

There's just things that we want there.

Sure. So have you guys looked at houses?

Are you able to afford the move?

Well, that was the question.

Our mortgage would go up $1,000.

Okay. Why?

Not based on interest rate.

$80,000 at 4% change in interest rate is not $1,000.

Well, you have.

You're going, you're moving up in price.

Well, yeah, because we bought this house for $150,000.

You're moving up in price.

Yeah, because they bought the house at the, at the, no, no, no, no, no.

They sell this house and they have an $80,000 mortgage.

If they go get an $80,000 mortgage in downtown, at 6%,

it is not $1,000 swing.

You're trying to move up in house while you're doing all these other things.

You can't afford to do that.

Well, we don't know yet.

What's, you, you guys, what hits your, your bank account every month,

$4,600?

Yes. And then he does have the a disability of how much is that?

And how much is that?

And $60.

Okay. Okay.

So, and then the new mortgage would be what?

Well, they're, you know, an estimate of $2,100.

But that's with insurance and property taxes and at a rate of.

Not on $80,000. It's not.

No, but what the, they're moving up in price.

Yes, probably because it's a nicer area.

Yeah. And you can't afford to do that and the private schools.

You don't, you cannot take a mortgage at 50% of your income

because you chose to move your children into a school that you can't afford

in a place where you can't afford to live.

No, you can't just keep doing.

I can't afford. I can't afford. But I want to.

No, I would not do that.

Because of the,

I'm not going to double. I'm not going to have a mortgage

just 50% of your income back.

Yeah, I agree. That's why I should get to the bottom of it.

So, I actually know you can't, yeah, you can't afford it.

No, you can find another house that you can move into

and have an $80,000 mortgage at 6%.

Yes, I would do that.

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Caroleign is in Dallas, Texas.

Hi, Caroline. How are you?

Hey, I'm well.

Thank you so much for answering my question today.

More dry.

Thanks. I want to buy a horse,

and my financial advisor told me I need to grow my investment portfolio

a little bit more before I can afford it.

And I feel like I can afford it.

So, I want to ask you a question.

What's your plan?

So, I want to give you the first

and second opinion from you all.

What's the size of your investment portfolio?

I don't know what's the size of the horse.

I don't know what's the size of the horse.

Big horse, small horse, Caroline.

It's a quarter horse.

It's going to be a show horse, a reigning show horse.

That's big here in Texas.

And so reigning is a thing here.

Is it type of horseback riding?

Anyway, it'll be a show horse.

And my investment portfolio to answer your question is $7 million.

My net worth is $8 million.

And your screener asked me how much I've been earning on that.

And I actually, when I told them about 14%

I was like, oh, that's a bad point.

But I went and looked it up.

And it's 16.47% that I've earned year over year.

That would be a problem.

And so, yeah.

Okay.

And how much is this reigning quarter horse?

Yeah.

So it's going to be somewhere around $75,000.

It might be more.

It might be less.

Okay.

I don't know why your financial advisor even gets a vote.

You're a lady that has $78 million.

And she wants to spend $75,000.

Well, thank you for that.

And I, but here's the thing.

And the ongoing upkeep.

And the reason he gets a vote is I trust him.

And I, I ask in the question.

So, I mean, I bring his bill.

Sure.

How much is the upkeep yearly?

Well, the answer is he wouldn't do it if it was him.

But the answer is not you can't afford it.

You can afford it.

Now, if you're not a horse person, you might not view this as wise.

But you're a horse person and it's where you want to burn some money.

You're getting ready to put $150,000 in the middle of the floor and burn it.

That's right.

That's exactly right.

But if you got $7 million, you can do that.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

How much is it a year, Caroline, with everything?

Boarding, grooming.

Yeah, it's at least $45,000 a year.

If everything goes right, which wind is ever anything over?

Yeah.

4,500 a year.

What are you, are you working?

Are you retired?

No, I'm not working.

I am a young retiree.

I'm 54 years old.

And so I need my investment portfolio to last for the rest of my life.

Don't have kids.

Don't have a husband.

The investment portfolio makes 10% a year.

You make $700,000 a year.

Okay.

Right?

So I should be able to afford a horse, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But just remember, just remember, though, when it comes to horses, it's like a lot of things.

It's like my cars and my guns and some other things.

The first one is the gateway drug.

Oh, yes.

I've had a whole show with the pilot.

This is going to be a problem.

It's going to get worse.

Yes.

I should hope they do.

They're like potato chips on a recent widow.

And so my husband always worked and had a big job.

And so we were able to afford horses.

And it was fine because he had an income.

But now I don't have.

You have a $700,000 annual rate.

Right.

Other than that.

Other than that.

What's your, do you, what's your house situation, Caroline?

Do you own your house?

Are you still paying on the mortgage?

I still have $140,000 mortgage.

And I need it.

Takes me about because that's what my husband did.

My recently departed husband.

We had a very low and less than 2% interest rate.

So he was just like, let's just pay it off, you know, over 15 years.

That kind of thing.

So I might pay off my house.

I know.

Yeah.

I would pay off your house.

And because you want the horse, you should buy the horse.

You can afford it.

I just want you to.

I buy some things that are absolutely important.

I buy some things that are absolutely, everyone buys some things that are absolutely ridiculous,

meaning that we just take the money and burn it in the middle of the floor.

It's just a, it's ridiculous consumption, right?

We all do.

And the only question is does it harm your life when you do that?

That's the question.

And this does not harm your life.

$150,000.

$75 for the horse in the next two years of upkeep gets you to $150 real quick, right?

Burning $150,000 in your fireplace tonight, your life would not change one ounce.

Okay.

And $45,000 a year for the upkeep ongoing doesn't change.

$700,000 a year coming in.

So I think if I think in the future, I would want my financial advisor to phrase differently so I don't fire him.

He should say, he should say, you can afford to do this, but you need to understand that you are completely burning this money in the middle of the floor.

If you understand that and you feel like you're going to be okay, mathematically, you're going to be okay.

But you can't do this ten times.

You can do it once.

We don't go to a million five.

I think I want to do it.

We're not going to a million five on this.

I want to keep it going a year over.

You know what I mean?

I want to keep it.

No, I'm saying probably six years.

I'm going to buy another horse and retire the other one and the retire.

Well, if you live on considerably less than 700,000 and you end up 14 million and you want to buy another horse then, you think you'll be fine.

Okay.

Yeah, but just some of my portfolio is in, you know, IRAs like about half of it's in an IRA that I can't really touch.

Yeah, but it's growing at that rate.

Yeah.

It's my point.

You are not going backward.

You're going forward.

Yeah, and that's seven years so you can get to it.

Yeah.

And seven years from now, we'll have doubled if it's continuing at 10% or greater.

And so your seven will be 14, seven years from now if you're earning 10 or greater.

And you have been.

So you've got a good portfolio.

And so the, you know, the question is if I, if I, if you booked a $200,000 for seasons or Ritz private jet around the world, which is actually available for about that, it will be the same thing.

I'm going to travel around the world for the next six months by private jet and I'm going to book it through four seasons or Ritz.

They both have it.

Okay.

It'd be the same exact thing.

You're just burning the money.

Yeah, but that's triple what she's paying for the, no, she's put 200,000, I said, and she's paying $100,000.

But that's over.

Yeah.

No, she's going to pay $75 and then she's got two years of upkeep.

She's going to have $152 in this horse and heart beat.

Yeah.

And ongoing is the upkeep is $45.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so all that's said, but if you have $7 million and you want to go on a $200,000 trip, you can do it.

Yes.

That's my point.

And now would your financial advisor agree with that?

Obviously he wouldn't.

You know, but that he doesn't get a husband.

He heard her financial.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He doesn't get a vote on that stuff.

You know, he just is there to help me understand the math and, you know, let's couch this decision, looking at what it does to the arithmetic.

Does this harm my life?

I wonder why he would tell her.

Well, I'll give you, let's give him the benefit of the doubt for a second.

Yeah.

Okay, I'll be nice.

He might, her husband just passed away.

Mm-hmm.

He's been coaching both of them for years.

He might be afraid she's buying this out of grief and he might be trying to protect her as a widow.

For a large purchase.

For making a large purchase.

Well, you know, and because maybe she, if her husband was here, maybe they wouldn't have done this purchase or whatever.

He may be kind of standing in there trying to love her well.

Right.

That may be what it is.

But, but, um, but that's a different thing than to say you can't afford it and you need your portfolio to grow.

That, that sounds parental.

And you're not my parent.

You're my financial advisor.

Yeah, yeah.

And so, um, you don't add, folks, the relationship you always want with your financial advisor is not parental.

It's teacher.

So, it's like, I worry about you if you're going to spend two million dollars and you've got seven.

I think that's unwise.

I think you're going to make some, I think you're going to regret that.

And here's why.

Here's how that destroys your nest egg and messes with it.

But, um, but you also could say to her and still saying you can't afford it.

You know, hey, you just lost so and so, you know, a year and a half, two years ago and make sure you're not doing this from a place of grief.

You're not medicating the grief somehow.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm worried about you and I care about you.

That would be an okay position.

Right.

That's a brotherly position rather than a, yes, than a parental position.

Oh, glad Caroline called when George Campbell was it on?

Because he'd be like, yeah, because George, George, there's no horse guy.

He has, he's on all the, I think he would even tell Caroline she can buy the horse.

He would, but he would, he would, he would be because he's on all the, he's on the, he's on the hate list of all the horse people websites.

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Heather's in Chicago. Hi, Heather. How are you?

I'm doing okay. How are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

So my question is where I don't even know where to start.

I just recently learned about you and started watching a few of your videos and I saw the baby steps video.

And I know that step one is say the thousand dollars. My problem is I have absolutely nothing.

And when I say I have nothing, I mean like when I always do Tuesday, I get paid tomorrow and I'm still going to be $300 short.

And I don't know where to start. But I don't want to get to this place.

I'm divorced. I'm a majority of my life. I was an at-home mom taking care of my kids.

And so when I got divorced, I was working a part-time job. I had no benefits.

And I have a decent job now. What do you make now?

I bring home about 2100 a month after taxes, which is great, but it does also benefit.

And you had nothing in the divorce other.

I did. And what I got, I used to pay off one of my student loans, which was about $30,000.

But I still have probably about $20,000 in student loan debt, which also scares me because I heard you say on one of your videos,

do not take out a student loan because you can't get rid of them.

I can't get rid of them with bankruptcy. I can't get rid of them by paying it off. How long have you been divorced?

A little over three years now.

And do you have kids?

I do, but they're both adults. Are you getting any alimony?

No, I don't get any alimony where I'm at. That's a lot of things.

Are you the screen says you're in Chicago? Are you in Chicago proper or in a suburb?

I'm actually in Indiana, but they asked what the closest major city life.

That's why I asked because that's what the end of.

Indiana, you don't.

Well, I mean, she's not got in one of Texas.

And probably a little different economy, micro economy that you're sitting in versus in Chicago itself.

More likely you can make it on 2100 there than you could downtown Chicago. That's my point.

Yeah, barely. Yeah. What are you doing? What's your job?

So I work for a major healthcare company and I work in a call center for them.

Good. Okay. Good for you.

Is there how long have you been with them?

It'll be two years in March, two years. Okay.

And do you see forward progress at that company to get your income up to move up?

Yeah, so like in October. So I started, you know, almost two years ago March.

Okay.

And then six months later, I got a like a promotion within the department and got a pay raise.

And now it's yearly. So now in October next month, I'll get a review again and get a pay increase.

But I don't know what that'll be.

And you're working 40 hours.

Yes, at least or offered over time the first of every month.

And I always try and get at least eight hours of overtime in depending on what day of the week the first falls on.

Okay.

So so you're bringing home 2100 a month. How much is your rent?

My rent is 1320 a month.

So I'm in an apartment.

And that's typically what the rent is going for in any safe neighborhood.

Okay. The bad news in your overall situation is you're described it accurately.

This is a really, really tough spot that you're in.

The good news is this is the worst it's ever going to be.

I hope so.

Oh, I promise you. I promise you.

So you've got two hurdles that I hear and we'll see what Rachel wants to add or subtract from that.

Hurtle number one that I hear is you guys were married a long time.

Your heart is broken.

You're grieving. You're angry.

And you're still healing from getting muddy boots trampling on your heart.

And with that part of that healing is getting your personal confidence up to say I'm going to win again.

Chapter two of my life, the encore after the curtain comes down and the curtain comes back up.

The encore is going to be amazing. I just haven't figured it out yet.

And your heart hasn't gotten to that yet. That level of belief.

But I will tell you this.

I've been doing this about 35 years and I've seen ladies at exactly your age have the best decade of their entire life overall.

But certainly including income from 53 to 63.

I see it all the time because of the stuff like the gravel that is in your belly.

You got the right stuff inside of you.

You just don't believe it again yet.

And as that starts to wake up, you're going to go be somebody you never even dreamed you would be over the next 10 years.

I've seen it happen over and over again.

So I see that in your future more than you do at this moment.

So that's one hurdle you've got to overcome.

The second hurdle is we've got to work on this income because you're starving to death.

You got to pick up over time, side jobs, everything else.

You got no margin in this math. This math is hard, hard, hard, hard, hard, hard.

So, you know, if you had another $2,000 a month coming in, your whole life would change right now.

Because the difference in 2100 and 4100 in your world is so huge.

So, I mean, working all the time at something that's moral and legal and makes good money.

Starting with all the overtime you can get not just eight hours.

I want eight hours a day.

How much will you work me? I need money.

Okay? And this is not a way of life for the next 10 years.

This is for the next six months.

So you can pile up a little money in the corner and know you get to eat next month.

Because you live from fear to fear, hand to hand, mouth to mouth right now.

Agreed? Yeah.

And if you had $10,000 in the bank, your whole attitude, the way you walk down the street would shift.

Yeah.

And it'd be part of your healing as well, which I really desire for you after talking to you.

I think you're special.

Yeah. I mean, it's from the financial standpoint, Heather, fighting for that piece and having some safety.

That's your next goal.

At this point, yes.

I'm not worried about the $20,000 student loan.

I'm worried about Heather having a little margin, a little wiggle room or a lot of wiggle room.

I'd like for you to just kind of slosh around in the cash for a few minutes.

Like you've just got a little pile of it for the first time in a while.

Instead of worrying about whether we're going to get canned tuna fish or canned denty more or whatever it is you're having to choose between.

I mean, yuck, right?

I mean, this is tough right now.

These numbers are hard.

Yeah.

So I'll tell you the other thing I would do is I would make sure I'm plugged into a good church and get some people around me that begin to love me and believe in me.

And they don't mind if you scream and cuss a little bit.

Don't mind if you cry a little bit.

And they might take you to dinner occasionally and just tell you what I've been telling you for the last few minutes that your child of God.

And I see a good future for you.

And I'd like for you to have that in your life too.

Yeah. And I do.

I do have a wonderful, wonderful church family.

Good.

Okay. Good.

Well, lean on them.

Lean on them.

They, you know, it's an opportunity for them to love someone well.

And I'm not saying become a permanent charity case.

But girl, you in a hurt right now.

Yeah. Let people love you.

And it's okay to be loved while you in a hurt, you know.

And then later on, you're going to be able to have you're going to have $10 million in the bank and you're going to find a Heather somewhere and you'll help her.

That's right. Amen.

But yeah, you're in an, you're in an exhausting place, Heather.

Exactly.

Emotionally, financially, the hours are going to be working.

It's going to be tiring.

But even if you can put a hundred bucks a week away, I mean, you look up in two months, you're like, there's 800 bucks.

Like that, that even kind of of itself is like, okay, we need some moving progress.

I need the math to get me back from the edge of terror.

Yeah.

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Welcome back to the ramsie show in the fair winds credit union studio James is in New York City.

Hi James, how are you?

I'm better than I deserve Dave. How are you doing?

Just the same sir. How can I help?

I'm glad to hear that I'll go right into it. It's great to talk to you. I've been living to you for about a year now watching your show every day while I run.

Thank you.

About eight years ago I started trying to buy a real estate, you know, with, you know, saving 20% to 30% down payments and borrowing money from friends to be able to buy.

I know it's a huge mistake now and it's not what tick-tock says that it is.

In the same time my cousin asked for money to do the same and I borrowed about 300,000 on per behalf from my network so she can also grow her portfolio.

Fast forward to now real estate is the opposite of what tick-tock says. I am also married and we are planning a wedding next year.

I paid off over 600,000 also with a dead that I borrowed from my friend after listening to you guys for the last two years.

I also have about five of my rental properties have been paid off. Wow.

That's amazing.

And I'm working. Thank you. And I try actively working toward becoming debt-free with all of my real estate and all of my debts.

I do have some debt off-standing.

I still have, so I paid off all the debt that I bought from friends and I only have more gauges on about 15 of my rental properties.

But the balance that my cousin borrowed is still outstanding and she hasn't made any interest payments in over 18 months and she also got, she got four clothes on all of her houses.

And with a wedding to pay for next year, newly married, I'm thinking, should I sell some of my real estate to pay off her debt as thought over from scratch or should I wait it out and pay it off little by little?

Did you borrow the money on her behalf or should borrowed money you had $300,000 cash that you lent her?

So the thing people that I borrowed from to start my own portfolio, I borrowed from them so that I can get to her.

So, I think it's fairly easy to figure out she's not going to pay this.

So, no.

And so you're going to have to...

I'm going to have to go close on.

So I am on the hook for that.

So, how are you going to pay the $300,000?

Now, the numbers you're throwing around are amazing.

Congratulations on your change in direction.

So, you paid off $600,000 already. How did you do that?

Little by little, I just been saving up cash from the...

The income that's been coming in, my regular W2 job, and I also sold a couple houses in what period of time did you pay off $600,000 doing that?

Two years.

I think the last 30 months.

Okay. So, why could you not just continue on that track and clear this $300,000?

I still have 15 houses with mortgage as on them.

But you paid off $600,000 in your current situation. You paid off $600,000 in 30 months.

Right?

Yeah.

And you sold a couple properties and you cash flowed the rest of it out of the rentals, right?

Yeah. So, you still got that cash flow and you can sell one other rental or two other rentals and do that.

How much are you making a month, James?

They vary as usually anywhere between 20 to about 28,000 after more disabilities and taxes is paid out.

And then your personal W2 income is what?

$18,000.

Yeah. Good job.

Okay.

Well, so overall, let's just say this.

Okay. You got 15 still mortgage.

You make $100,000.

You're got cash flow because you got a bunch of them paid off.

And you have a $300,000 unsecured loan hanging over your head like a knife.

And so, that I need to clear.

That's the overall picture.

And so, what would I do in that overall picture?

Not just the 300, but everything else.

I would lay out a game plan and say in X number of years,

I want to be 100% debt free with my real estate portfolio.

Now, what I would suggest you do is play with the math because you're good at it.

I've been listening to you.

You've got this dialed in.

You know where you are and you know how you got there.

And so, this is a gift you've got.

You like math riddles almost, right?

So, lay out this math riddle and say,

how many properties do I have to sell and which ones would I sell of the ones that are mortgageed

in order to be 100% debt free in three years?

Because the 15 that have mortgages also have equity.

So, you don't have to sell them all to clear the mortgages.

You would sell the ones you hate the most.

Or that have the most equity because you want to get the most traction in this scenario.

Okay? So, let's just use an example.

I've got to sell seven of the 15 that are mortgageed to clear the 300 grand and clear the other eight.

And I can do that in three years.

Well, that's one thing to consider.

What if I waited and went a little slower and I took five years?

Oh, then I've only got to sell five of them.

Or whatever the number is.

I'm making that number up. It's probably not that far off.

But, you know, lay you out a three-year plan.

What have to be true? What have to sell?

And what have to do with the cash flows to clear the 300 grand and to clear all mortgages in three years?

What would I have to sell? What would I have to do? What would have to be true to do all mortgages in five years?

And then you decide which one of those programs you want to work?

I'm okay with either one of those two.

I'm going to stay in death the rest of my life.

You're not? That's the only thing I would yell at you.

But you're not. You're not urgent right now.

No. No.

Because it's real estate. Because it's real estate.

Because it's real estate. But if it was credit card debt,

we'd be having a different discussion or student loan debt.

Yeah, but it's got the ability to retain some of this portfolio.

He doesn't have to destroy it.

Yeah. You don't have to burn it down.

Yeah.

To clear it.

Because you've already made progress on my idea.

Yeah.

When it wasn't my idea. Right?

Yeah. So I've been trying to pay it off.

And I've been fully focused on my own debt.

But now I'm just thinking there's just no way that she's ever going to pay it back.

Honey, let's just change the name on that.

That is not her debt.

You borrowed it.

What you did with it was really stupid.

But you borrowed it.

It's your debt.

You gave it to an incompetent real estate investor who happens to be kin to you.

And you lost your money that you borrowed.

So it's not her debt.

She's not going to pay it.

How's the, how's that?

Does she talk to you, James?

Is she feel bad about it?

Not at all.

I think they're really shit.

They're strange.

So I have no point.

There's no technical issues on return.

Clothes on return.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So she's not working.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Truthfully, even if she wanted to pay it, she doesn't have anything left.

They took all the property.

Yeah.

She's working in a coffee shop.

I mean, you're not getting 300 grand out of this, check.

Not at all.

And that's why I want to carry up things just out of the way.

So you need to pay your 300 grand.

You've already paid 600 of your 900.

And now you've got 300 left to go.

Another example of co-signing.

Don't put your name.

Well, I want her slowning money to relatives.

That's fair.

The only thing worse in loaning money to relatives is loaning money to relatives

is that you borrowed to loan.

I know.

So that's the same idea that I'm having to step in the middle of your debt situation.

A co-signer taking out a loan on behalf of someone else.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not great.

Yeah.

So I'm sorry, James.

Yeah, it's awful.

And then it destroys the relationship.

I think you're going to be, I think you're going to end up with the property that you have now that's debt free.

Plus some portion of those 15 property.

And it's got five so enough.

Or five properties paid off.

I think you're going to clear it all.

I don't know what the equities are in them.

Yeah.

But you start running the math out on that.

It's a neat math riddle to run.

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Laren is in Houston, Texas.

Hi, Lauren. How are you?

Better than I deserve what's up?

So I was wondering if it's worth living almost paycheck to paycheck and saying where we are.

To work for getting to like owning our home.

Or should my husband change his drug into something that we can live a little bit more comfortably?

The business cannot afford to pay him what he is worth.

Not at this moment due to how his father and his mother are spending the profit.

That's not the answer.

The answer is the business can afford to pay him a proper amount because it would just simply make less profit.

So for instance, what does your husband do with this company?

It's a telecommunication company. He's a lead technician.

What does a lead technician make in the marketplace in Houston?

I think honestly it's around 32 an hour.

Yeah, that sounds about right to me.

What's he making now?

Half that, 16.

Oh, so here's the rule.

Then if he leaves and they want a technician, they're going to have to pay 32 an hour.

Because they're not going to be able to hire someone to do this job for 16.

What?

Yeah.

And so what we teach people in an entree leadership with family businesses,

you pay the family member market rate for the position.

And we discuss future ownership.

Not instead of future ownership so I can go on a cruise and you guys are starving.

All employees, most one employees making is 19 an hour.

So they're underpaying everybody?

Well, no, no, they're not or everybody would have left.

So something's wrong with your numbers.

It's because they've got people with, I guess, history behind them that makes it very hard for them to find other jobs.

As in like a criminal background.

Oh, okay.

So they're kind of grandfathered.

If you leave, you won't find anything else for your staying situation.

So more out of desperation, these people are saying.

Yeah, it's kind of what you're saying.

I'm, I'm there helping in the office.

I mean, I'm basically taking over the office.

I'm getting 15 an hour.

So what he's making, plus I got shelter.

I've got an instant on my hand.

What's your husband?

What does your husband say about all this?

Is he dissatisfied like you are?

No.

He asked what we like.

We're, we're getting it to be, I guess, getting the business to be for it to be in our hands.

So he's willing to put up with it in order to own the business.

He is.

And when are you supposed to own the business to offset the pack that you're being paid half of what you're worth?

By the end of next year.

Oh, okay.

So not five years.

So what kind of profit does the business make?

We can take home anywhere between the 40 to 60,000 a month.

Okay.

And you won't trade that for $16 an hour for a year?

I guess my issue is, well, kind of slowly behind on our bill situation.

And my in-laws are, we're refinancing everything so they have better cash flow because they are lacking

a bunch of credit cards and things like that so that you don't have to take it out their own things

because COVID hit a mark.

And they've got so many loans.

They're trying to catch up.

And they're just not, I guess, doing it right?

How are they going to give you this business?

It sounds like it's all a piece.

That's why I'm in the, in office, putting, like putting everything together re, I guess, getting the business up to date.

It's a data telecommunication company.

So, I mean, it is a very needed, I guess, in this fall.

And they have, and they have retirement, Lauren.

They're making $40 or $50,000 a month.

Yes.

$600,000 a year.

Yes.

And why are they having to refinance anything?

Why aren't they just paying it off?

Because they've got $6,500, I guess, a month going towards a line of credit that is at 75% interest.

That I keep telling them to pay off, but they're like, well, what if this happens and they rack up another credit card?

Or I guess they're very stubborn.

And I'm slowly getting to them to be like, okay, today's retirement.

I'm scared in a year from now.

They're not going to have the ability to walk away from 40 to 60,000 a month.

I know.

But within the end of the year, how I'm giving things kind of refinanced into every light.

What were interest rates?

We are...

Okay, let's stop.

You're all over the place.

All right.

These numbers aren't adding up anymore.

Okay.

So here's the thing.

If you could too, you and your husband can sit down and see a path to becoming the owner of a business that makes $40,000 a month net profit.

And if we believe that the parents are going to be in a condition to hand us that in 18 months, yes, I would sacrifice to get that.

But everything you go back to sounds like you're bitter and mad towards them and you think they're stupid.

And I really don't care about that in this conversation.

The conversation is, is your husband underpaid?

Yes, he's underpaid.

But it's a great deal to trade $16 an hour for $40,000 a month profit a year from now, 18 months from now.

That's a bargain.

But I'm not sure that you believe that that's going to happen because I think you think they've got so much debt and other things going on that they're never going to honor their word and walk off.

That's what I think is really going on.

You don't think this is going to happen.

Is that true, Lauren?

Yeah, that is pretty...

It sounds true to me.

Yeah.

You're throwing so many darts in these balloons that there's not anything here for the clown.

I mean, there's just nothing left.

So, you've got to sit down with them and figure out where we're going next and how we're going to get there.

And you've got...

So, if I'm going to stay, I've got to see a path that is logical on how we're going to get there in 12 to 18 months.

And these people sound just...

Why you...

They can't help you with that path.

It's science, I think.

You should leave them and let them have this circus.

Yes.

And it needs to be written out and agreement of what you all four are agreeing to.

Like on paper, like it...

This is very vague.

Like, I jump in and help for a little while now.

I'm running the whole stinking thing.

And they said they're going to give it to us, but they've got a 75% interest line of credit.

What are they dealing with?

The mafia?

Oh my God.

And so, you know, and who wants to keep that around like it's a pet?

So this is so illogical.

There's so much crap going on in this conversation.

So, yeah, you've got to comb through all this stuff and go,

when we get the business, here's what we're going to have to pay.

Pay off because you won't have paid it off.

And here's how we're going to operate it.

But if you can trade $16 an hour for $40,000 a month in 18 months, you should make that trade.

But you've got to come to the place you believe that's going to happen.

And like Rachel said, it's written down.

Yeah, and that they have the ability to hand you a business

and they can go off in retirement.

I don't think they have money.

I think they're broke.

Yeah.

The whole place is a lot more broke than everybody that is.

Yes, I'm like, I don't think that I...

I'm not sure I believe the $40,000 a month thing anymore.

Well, she said she's right.

I don't think you keep 75% interest around.

I mean, you'd have to...

Your parents would have to be cousins.

They still want to keep 75% interest around if you're making $40,000 a month.

Let's just keep that.

We might need it.

You know, that's just ridiculously stupid.

So, no.

So that's wrong.

I don't believe there's something wrong in this...

And I think Lauren has figured out that there's something wrong with this story.

And it's not all adding up.

And it doesn't add up.

That's what she's figured out.

And that this is a trap.

And so you don't want to be in the business of rearranging the deck chairs on the table.

Yes.

And if you have to be at a place in your life where you make $40,000 a month in order to keep payments afloat...

No.

You're broke.

That's not a profit.

That's not a profit.

You don't have money at that point.

You don't have money at that point.

You don't have $40,000 a month.

The bank does.

Yes.

And we don't need that.

No.

No, no, no, no.

And I kind of think that's what's going on.

I think these people have leveraged this thing to its eyeballs.

So I can't tell because Lauren doesn't really know, but she smells a skunk.

And this usually causes one in the area.

So that's what you're looking for.

We got a lot of metaphors in that one.

So let's say circuses, clowns, balloon skunks.

Good luck, Lauren.

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We coach about 10,000 small businesses nationwide through our Entry Leadership brand.

We have executive coaches.

We have an online app that coaches them.

The Entry Leadership podcast is built on helping small businesses navigate.

A lot of them are family-owned businesses.

I just spent the weekend with 34 businesses that were averaging about 20, 25 million dollars each annually

and encroaching them over the long weekend.

And last weekend, that's where I was.

And we talked to them a lot last weekend and every time we're with them about succession planning,

about handing to the next generation or selling or whatever it is you're going to do.

So a couple of rules, a couple of principles you can go by and family business.

Your family business is going to be no more functional than your family.

If your family is Craig-Cray, expect the business to be Craig-Cray.

If your mother-in-law is operating in the business and she's nutty, expect her to be nutty when she's at the office.

People don't suddenly become smart, well-regulated, relationally brilliant when they walk through the doors of a business.

When at home, they're absolutely can't find their way through a kindergarten.

And so you're not going to have crazy people that operate a business well together.

And that is where family business gets a bad name.

Don't ever go to work for family because your family was crazy.

That's why you say that.

And so no, but we work with family every day and we love it.

And we have some fun, we argue about things, all that kind of stuff.

We have conflict like anybody else, but we have conflict resolution skills too.

Hell out.

And we know how to lay out a plan and execute the plan and be in alignment and everybody being agreement.

This is what this looks like and we're going to do it.

So if you're going to enter into a situation like our last caller, Lauren,

the thing that she and her husband did wrong, they were just like the convicts that mother-in-law hired.

They didn't have any place else to go so they took a $16 an hour position that should be paid $32.

And agreed to it and then later whined about it.

So you need to enter into that whole thing and say, okay, the only reason I would take this is because I'm going to take the business over.

Now what does that look like and come through the exact details?

You can't vaguely promise, often the distance, something that no one believes because they leave.

And that includes your own children.

And especially in that situation, expecting to take over the company in 18 months.

Yeah.

That's a fast period of time for all this.

Fascinating that the daughter-in-law who's running operations calling here is like, how do you get the other people to work for 19?

Oh, they hire convicts who can't get a job anywhere else.

I mean, she just dropped that and kept driving.

I mean, that's a mic drop and just kept driving.

It's a very nice thing to do to get people back.

Yeah, it's really sweet, but I'm like, this is.

When taking advantage of the situation.

And now her husband's in the same category.

Yes.

Only he's not a convict, at least as far as we know.

Well, taking advantage of people is what it feels like.

It's what it sounded like. That's how we should count.

That's what she believes.

And so this is who you want to work for.

I don't think so.

So you need real clarity.

You need to have exactly what the plan is and so forth.

And a good rule of thumb, folks, if you own a business and you want people in the family involved, is to pay them what the marketplace demands.

And so if you have a son going to work for you and he's going to be a software engineer, you pay what software engineers make.

Not more or not less.

And then you say, as you grow in your leadership skills, we can talk about you taking over this business someday.

But today you're a software engineer.

Today you're a tech.

He was a tech.

And so that guy, you know, her husband.

So today you're a tech and you make $32.

Because that's what the marketplace demands if we weren't hiring convicts.

And so that's, you know, that's fair.

And if you're going to go in and take the operational position, it's not a $15 an hour job.

The COO of a company that makes $500,000 a year profit does not make $15.

That's ass and I.

So no, we're not going to do that.

We're going to figure out what this position is worth.

And you're going to pay me that amount.

And the only reason we're taking these two positions instead of working somewhere else is because we have a two-year plan for this to be handed off to us.

And the six debts that are laying here will be paid off by that time out of the profits so that you don't hand us a pig and a poke.

And so you have to lay this out and have a dad gum clarity.

But it's this vague throwing grenades over the fence and wondering what blows up stuff has got to stop.

Which is like into me.

It's your fault too for taking the deal.

And this is a big deal from 16 an hour to 40 to 60,000 a month.

I'm like, this is the biggest jump ever.

And the fact that you're not, it's not so buttoned up.

Yeah.

Worries me, right?

Like that's it's that way.

I mean, she's pretty sure it's not going to happen because she thinks they're sure they've got so many other things going on that nobody knows about.

And 75% interest.

I mean, all these things.

Back to that.

But anyway, so the point being for Lauren and for anyone else entering these things is, I would say market value is fair to be paid.

And it's what we pay at Ramsey for our for everyone.

And that includes Rachel.

And that includes her brother.

And that includes, you know, these people get paid.

Rachel gets paid on the same schedule that Deloney and George gets paid on, same schedule.

Same percentage of speaking fees and books and everything.

Okay.

So, no change there at all.

Then as you become an owner, you can participate in the profits in addition to you being paid for your position.

And that's a proper way to do this.

And then lots of communication and lots of clarity.

Where there's not lots of clarity and lots of communication and people aren't relationally functional.

You're not going to have a completed succession plan.

It's not going to work.

And so I don't think that one's going to complete because of all the things, all the stink that Lauren smelled.

But also Lauren and her husband entered into this improperly.

It's on them too.

Yeah, that they took the position.

They shouldn't have taken these positions.

You should have said you should have demanded up front.

The way we come in here is where we see a clear path to ownership in 18 months.

And an ownership of something we actually want to own.

Okay.

So we're going to clean up whatever mess is doing here during the 18 months.

You're going to pay me accurately for being the COO.

You're going to pay him accurately for being a tech during that time.

And if you can't do all of those things including a clear path, then we're not going to come over here.

And that's the thing that should have been decided up front.

But now you're in.

And now the thing's going down the toilet and you're riding the, you get to go on the ride.

Jonathan is with us.

Jonathan is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Hi, Jonathan. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So we made our last mortgage payment yesterday instead of in 2051 as the bank thought we were going to.

Wow, Jonathan. Congratulations.

Way to go.

That's amazing.

Yeah, it your content really motivated us to, you know, put some pep in our step there.

So I like things with engine and wheels and I've had nine motorcycles and 60 cars throughout my life and plenty more to come Lord willing.

So my question natural is about the 50% rule.

We have a fund separate from everything else that's just for toys right now.

It's got about 45,000 in it.

But my wife and I are not especially high earners.

So it's not worth.

I'm not worth right now is 715.

Okay.

All right.

So I'm not working on buying a new thing.

Go ahead.

Just just just you know, a random toy they come to go.

Yeah.

There's like a lot of different experiences.

But if if I upgraded my daily, I could barely touch the 45.

And if I used the whole 45, we'd be already above 50%.

So does that rule apply in baby steps seven or what advice would you give for me?

The rule is based on the principle that the more you have tied up and things going down in value, the harder it is to build wealth.

Yeah.

So fix that.

Don't put so much in things going down in value that you go backward.

You've gone forward beautifully.

Don't stop going forward, right?

So there's no magic to the 50% in your situation.

I don't care.

But just don't put so much stuff in stuff, money in stuff with wheels and motors that you go the other way because you got confused about where this wealth came from.

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Today's question comes from Matthew and Michigan. I have a car worth $20,000 that's a need of a $5,000 repair to replace the head gasket.

Is there a rule of thumb to determine if a repair expense is too much to pay percentage wise for a given car's value?

The car is expensive though. The thing we've always taught here on the areas is you've got a $5,000 car and you blow a head gasket and you need to spend $3,000 not $5,000 to put a head gasket on.

What can you sell the car for as is with the blown head gasket? In the case of the $5,000 car with blown head gasket, you might get $3,000. Let's say you could get $3,000 for it.

If the value that you can sell it for plus the repair is more than the value after the repair, you don't do the repair.

Let me recap. If it's a $5,000 car after it's repaired and you can sell it for $3,000, then the repair is $3,000. That would be $6,000. You would not repair that car.

You would take the three from selling it, put the three you were getting ready to spend on it and buy a $6,000 car instead of a $5,000 car that you have after you're finished with this.

That's how you do the formula. Matthew, I do not know what your car is and I'm an old redneck that used to put my own head gaskets on and replace my own motors and cars back when I knew what the car was. When I opened a hood now, it might as well be a spaceship.

I have no idea what's in there now. I don't know what I'm talking about, but $5,000 sounds awfully high for a head gasket on a $20,000 car.

I am going to shop that. Good rule of thumb folks is car dealers are the most expensive shop by in most cases as much as double.

So finding a local independently owned shop like Christian brothers is one that we endorse or know the bunch of those guys to franchise their independently owned shops in your market and someone like that they're honest they do a good job.

You go in there and find an honest good local mechanic and let them give you a bid for a head gasket.

I'm a little I don't know what the engine is. I don't know what the car is there may be a complication with that sir but for $20,000 I'm fixing it. Yeah, you're fixing it and I'm probably fixing it for three and I'm going to fix it.

Yep, that's what I would say that that's where I would go to. All right, Jen is in Detroit. Hi Jen, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call today. Certainly. How can we help?

So I'm calling because I'm 46 years old. I'm single. I've never been married. All my life. I've always wanted to get married, but I haven't found anyone yet.

And I've been holding off on buying a home because I've always had this dream of buying my first home with my future spouse.

And as I've gotten a little bit older, I'm starting to wonder if I need to rethink that plan. I did want to mention also that this is something I'm thinking about for the future because I can't really do anything at this moment because I am currently laid off.

But I'm hopeful that I'm going to get a new job very soon and I'll be back to normal making money again and back in my and I can move forward with some of my goals that I've got here.

I've had a lot of time to think in the last eight months that I haven't been working.

Has it been eight months since you haven't had a job? Wow. Yeah, I was laid off in December of 25. How are you living? How are you paying bills?

So I was able to live off of unemployment for the first six or seven months. And then I was also given a pretty generous severance package. So once my unemployment ran out in July, I've been starting to chip away for my severance package.

I've been very thrifty. You need to land something. Don't you? Do you have any debt?

I do not know. Not anymore. Yes. Good for you. Any savings? Yes. Yes. I have savings. I have a total of 394 K in retirement between a traditional and Roth IRA. Good for you.

I have 31K in a non-retirement mutual funds. Then I have in my high-yield savings, I have 32K which is basically my severance money. That's what I've been.

Look at love. My last job, my income was 114K and I'm hoping that my next job is going to be something similar to put me in a good position again.

She waited to get married to buy a house. No, I was going to answer her question. No, no, Jen. I think because I just checked off the boxes, you're debt free. You have savings in the bank.

And as long as you have a good down payment, I would move forward for sure because owning your home is going to give you a level of stability.

And it's going to continue to add to your net worth and your wealth building process. And here's the thing too, it's just a house. If you meet a guy and in two or three years, you're like, okay, things are moving.

We got to sell a move. That's great. It's just a house. You can do that. But no, I would not wait. You don't have to keep a house forever.

Yeah. So if you meet somebody at Rachel's point and this house doesn't fit into the new plan, sell it and then live the part of your dream where we buy something together.

Okay. Yeah, you're too successful. Jen, you got it. Like getting in the market now and seriously and being a homeowner. Women are now outpacing single women are now outpacing single men and homeownership.

Oh, really? Yes. Almost double. Yep. You're kidding. Oh, that's I did not know that. Okay. So single women are buying homes, making a life for themselves. And again, I pray that your prayer comes true and that you do find someone to meet someone and that's the case. Then great.

You can sell. He can move into your place. You know, whatever it looks like for you guys, but it's not a, it's like you have to be married to this, to this house.

No pun intended charisma is in Sacramento. I charisma. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you better than I deserve? What's up? I was calling. I'm working the baby steps. I'm on almost the end of baby step two.

I do know that I have to save, you know, my emergency fund still. But I know that a house like saving for a house is baby steps 3 B.

And I have been, I guess, planning ahead trying to figure out how I would do that. I'm a single mom of two on a $50,000 income and houses in my area like one down houses that have been good at out or at the minimum like $300,000.

They are. You're right. They're extremely expensive. I'm on low income. I mean, I know that I could change my income. But as of right now, I'm working for my dad at a family owned business.

So I'm hoping to possibly stay. But I know that that's probably not the best financially for me. You could you make more somewhere else?

I don't really have any degrees or anything in my name. But what are you doing now for work? Work for it. I'm the office man. What kind of work is it though?

I do everything in the office. I'm the only office person. So I do payroll. I answer the phones. I get a little appointment. If you if you went to work somewhere else, what could you make?

Being an admin being in that kind of role. Honestly, probably the same one how to degree.

Okay. So you're not really taking a pay cut working for your dad, which is kind of what you indicated at first. Okay. I could make more if I didn't work here. You said and that's not true.

I mean, I do have 12 years of experience. Is it true or not?

Probably not. Okay. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me either one's fine. So let's we're dealing with $50,000 income in Sacramento. You're probably not buying a home sign.

It's a very difficult, very expensive real estate market. Yeah. So between that, that baby set 3B charisma and baby set 4 we say there's not a hard and fast rule.

But it's kind of that feeling if you know it's going to take longer than probably three or three years to save up that down payment. You need to start doing both.

So be putting some money and retirement while you're saving for that down payment. So in order to be a homeowner, you have two choices. Do something to get your income up permanently.

Or go to an area that you can afford to live on what you make. You cannot buy a home in that area. It'll be very difficult with the numbers you gave me. I don't disagree with you.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair wins credit union studio. Taylor is in Reno, Nevada. Hey, Taylor. What's up in your world?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I got a question for you. Would I have a feeling I know the answer to.

But like a regular one, I think I need to hear it from the authority to figure out. Well, see if we can find one for you.

My life has been wanting to do like more traveling, more fun things. I run them all the sound systems. So I work a lot on the weekends.

So the weekends we do have off. We tend to not go anywhere. Outside of that, I just have a problem spending money unless it's on something that I can use to make money.

Yeah. So no fun for you, Taylor. Basically, basically, my work is fun. So that's good. But outside of that, I mean, we spent $300 on food at a festival this weekend.

And that hurt. Yeah, you're still recovering. Yeah.

Yeah. So what is your household income, Taylor?

It's going to fluctuate about 70 to 100. Depending on how much debt do you guys have? Do you have money? I mean, the house is the only thing we don't money on for part.

I'm not paid for my sound systems paid for. So that's the the tear I have is we want to go do things, but I want to take that money and put it on the mortgage.

The nothing the mortgage from what it is. I'm on track to be at least double the mortgage by the end of the year.

That's good. So what timeline will you have it paid off by?

I haven't calculated because it hasn't been consistent enough. I started this household venture this year.

Okay. Prior to was was all the trucks and the trailers. Yeah. What do you guys have in the investments?

Savings. We have a fully funded 10k emergency fund. It's just the two of us. There's no kids.

And I think that's what I think is the most important thing to do.

My 401k is split since I separated from the Navy. I have about 80 year and a different TSP. And then I started my own personal Roth 401 to after I separated this got about 20 in it. It gets about 700 months.

Okay. And then we've done her 401k with our work to.

Probably more than it should be. But she's doing about 900 amongst plus the company match.

Well, I would. So those shoes. She's sitting about 40 in now. Okay. Gotcha.

So I got a girl and another 500 into mutual funds. And that's it. About 72.

Okay. Yeah. Well, you guys are doing a great job. My question would be, are you on a pretty detailed budget month to month looking at your income and where it's going?

For the most part, I got a pretty pretty good grasp on it.

That's not what you're not doing what she said. You're not doing what she said. She said a detailed budget. Not I got a grasp on it.

No, I mean, every dollar has an assignment in the every dollar app and you and your wife are looking at that where every dollar is going together and you're agreeing on it. You are not doing that.

No. Okay. So I think that's going to be your your relief tailor. Honestly, because I think when you guys see where your money is going and what you have to spend.

Then when you actually give it permission to say, yeah, at the beginning of the month, we're going to have a category for fun. And there's going to be 800 bucks or whatever you are able to put in there and want to put in there and agree to put in there.

That you guys then have that number and then you can freely go and spend it as you want or a vacation, right?

We want to say for this vacation, so we're going to put X amount away. And so I think the lack of detail could be stressing you out just thinking.

Okay. Is this okay to do? Is it not okay to do? I would rather it be here for something that makes money. Right?

But when you force yourself to spend as you should, you should be giving saving and spending where you guys are. So that spending element needs to be in the budget. And you guys need to agree on the amount.

It doesn't have to be ridiculous. Here's the here's what you'll experience. Okay. When the two of you write it down and you say, okay, this month we're going to agree that the fun category has. I'll just make up a number 700 bucks in it.

Okay. And you put 700 bucks in that category. What you're going to experience is that it's as if for you that it already got spent right then.

So when you turn around and actually do spend it, you're probably going to actually enjoy it. But the angst over spending money or wasting money on fun when I could be buying more equipment happens when you write it down even though it hasn't left.

And so you're going to have that emotion out of the way and you're actually going to be more fun. It's going to be more fun for you more fun for her. And you do need to budget something. But if you both agree to the number.

And this month it's a little low because I need to buy this piece of equipment this month. I'm good. So it's a little higher because we don't we're not buying anything this month. And so.

And you go back and forth like that. You need to have that in there. And that way she will agree to you continuing to grow this business without resenting your business.

But if all of her fun is involved in you buying a piece of equipment, she's not going to enjoy this for very much longer. And right after she quits enjoying it, you're going to quit enjoying it. That's the way that's going to work.

So we need we need to get a plan that we can both ride this together and and both stick to it. Emma is in spoke and hi Emma. How are you?

Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you better than I deserve? How can we help?

I had a quick question about some debt that I owe that doesn't accrue any interest.

So right now I owe about 9,000 on a car. And I owe I believe the totals around 52,000 on student loans that I had taken out.

And I was having difficult time because I was using you know a really intense debt pay off method and I had paid $36,000 off in a year and a half.

Wow. On my student loans. And I was working really hard on it. But I went and visited a family member who is kind of well off.

And they they saw how hard I was working on it. And they saw how much it was kind of taken out of me and taken out of my life.

So they decided to buy all that debt for me that way I can pay it back to them without worrying about all the interest that I'm accruing.

Oh, the problem is that it's a pretty large monthly payment.

Is that is that deal already been done? Why has that deal already been done? Yes.

Oh crap. Okay. So how much do you owe your family member that was trying to be a blessing?

I think if I I don't have the exact total like on hand right now, I think it's $62,000.

Good. The rough estimate. And what do you make?

Last year I'm a nurse, so I make a good amount. I made like I think brought home $76,000 last year.

And you have the opportunity for all kinds of overtime and you paid off $36,000 earlier in what period of time?

A year and a half.

Okay. So they if you use that formula, it's going to take you three years to clean out the family member.

Okay. I wish you hadn't done that. But I'm going to lean into it just as hard because you want this out of your life as soon as possible.

Interest was not your problem. And I wish you hadn't done this.

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Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. Our second Ramsey cruise, 2500 people. All Ramsey people will be on there.

We're going to talk about having celebrating or celebrate with them, them having beat debt and change their family tree.

We're going to do the world's largest debt free screen all together on the ship seven days with me, all the Ramsey personalities plus others. Natalie Grant is joining us.

We've got pastors on board to do devotionals with us. We've got all kinds of fun things happening. It's going to be a blast Western Caribbean, new wealth building teachings. We're going to do all all the entertainment will be us.

So when you go into the theater on the cruise ship, it's going to be Rachel cruise speaking. Pretty cool stuff. We had a blast the last time we did this and it comes up in March. There's a few cabins left.

If you want to go, you don't go on a vacation unless you're baby step four or beyond and you don't go on this one. If you're not baby step four and beyond, you're not invited.

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I mean, we had a absolute blast. I mean, I walked around. We did to pop up Q and A's. We just jump up on a stage and start doing question answers. People would stop. We did pictures with them.

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Caleb is in Raleigh North Carolina. Hi Caleb. How are you?

Good day. I think we're taking Michael. Sure. How can we help?

So I'm 23. Me and my wife. We have zero debt. We actually just paid off our last car.

Congratulations. We're looking to get our first house. Good. And I guess my question is, is it.

Is it better to get a house now? Is it better to wait and keep renting like getting to say the market? I'm not exactly sure what the best option is.

I'm not sure. Are you guys at a point that you're debt free and you have a fully. Oh, yeah, you said you just paid off your car. Do you guys have money for a down payment?

Or you're just looking ahead in the future for the next couple of years.

No, we have about 40,000 saved right now. We make about we bring home about 150 3000 a year. Okay.

So you would rent. You should I want to keep renting. Why?

I don't know. I don't want to. I just want to know if it's better. Yeah. Right. Or to buy now. Yeah. So the time to buy honestly.

It's always been. Yeah. When you are financially ready to go ahead and get in because they're. I mean, home prices.

They're not obviously skyrocketing like they did years ago. But they're not going down. No, they're up 2% is that what it was that we heard.

Yeah. Nationally, they're up 2% but Raleigh, they're up more than that. Yeah. Well, they're not going down. You don't want to wait on them to go up.

I'm a stud. Yeah. So yeah. If you're ready when you're ready by. If you want to wait a little while and say because you want to save some money or something, that's fine.

But I wouldn't wait a little while because I think prices are going to come down. Whoever told you that's full of crap.

No, there's no prices. There's no price adjustment coming in the real estate market. We have 1.1 million homes on the market in America right now.

And we brought 2 million people trying to bomb. There's been a shortage of inventory more buyers chasing 2 few houses which drives prices up for 25 consecutive years.

So you just don't want to get in that game. Now, we were seeing 10% or more increases in value a year. And we're seeing 2 or 3% increases in value a year.

And so it has slowed down in that sense. So actually being a buyer right now is more for your advantage because it's now average days on the market is 57 days.

And so you actually may have the ability to negotiate and all that versus four years ago, people were offering asking price and like in these bidding wars.

So yeah, if you're a buyer right now, you actually have a little bit more leverage, I think, to get in there and negotiate.

Yeah, it's a great time to buy. And don't wait on the rates to go down either. You date the rate you're married to house.

So you can take the mortgage out today and 15 year fixed at about 5.5% 5.3 quarters percent right now.

5.98. Okay. And if it, let's see here. Anyway.

5% yeah. If the rates go down, you can refinance. Daniel is in Washington, DC. Hey, Daniel, how are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. I got a bit of a family will issue that I want to get your vice on.

So my, my mother's parents have passed away. My grandfather was lost to go that happened earlier this year.

The will they left behind took their inheritance and one third went to my aunt, one third went to my uncle.

And for my mom's third, they cut it in half and distributed it between me and my two siblings.

Now, the reason for this is my mom and my grandmother never had a good relationship.

For whatever reason, my grandmother just never thought my mom stacked up and she let her know it every chance that she could.

And so it's very sad. And what's unfortunate is after my grandfather had passed away, you could tell that she had started to mend some of those feelings.

With looking back with kind of a positive outlook and then all the sudden, this will shows up and it's one final slap in the face that, you know, the things were just not good.

When I learned about this, no, and for the record, I don't know the exact amount.

But I would assume that my third of her half before tracking here, it's actually your third of your third.

Well, it's probably around 30 to 50,000 dollars, something in there if I had a guess now.

As soon as I heard about this, my instant reaction was very firm and it hasn't changed in the month following, which is, I don't want anything to do with this.

I will accept the money because I have to legally, but morally, I do not want to be a part of whatever my grandmother was trying to accomplish when they wrote this well.

And I just, I don't want anything to do it.

I consider it to be my mother's inheritance and that's who it should have went to and I don't want to be part of it.

Now, I have not discussed this with my other two siblings.

I, so I'm not sure how this is going to play out, but I just kind of wanted to hear your perspective on this situation as far as how you would handle it, how, and just generally how you see things.

You feel pretty resolute, Daniel.

I would, my knee jerk is to say, follow your gut.

It feels like dirty money to you. You don't like it. You don't like the spirit around it. You don't even do it with it.

I think that you, I think you trust your instincts for you and then to know that your siblings may not have that same conviction either.

So, and if you're free of that, which you should be, right, that they can do what they want.

They get to do what they want to do and you get to do what you want to do.

But I probably, your grandmother gets to do what she wants to do.

It's her money. She left it where she wanted it to go, but you're looking at it going, I don't want it.

I don't want that. That's your decision.

Yep. And I think I would let my siblings know just an FYI. It's like a no pressure thing.

Yeah, I'm not asking you to do this.

No, but just I'm not judging you if you don't, but I don't want anything to do with this. It smells.

Yep. Gotcha.

I think your mom will accept it, Daniel. Will she take it?

Yeah, obviously her initial reaction was absolutely not no.

Oh, you've talked to her about it.

Of course, that. Well, I mean, I was staring her right in the eyes when she told me.

And I could see the heart breaking her eyes. It was it was God-wrenching.

It's just to see. And I just said, of course, you know, she said, no, absolutely not.

And I just put my phone down. I said, no, God has, you know, me and my siblings were all firmly middle class.

We're all around, you know, each other in the same regard as far as like financial.

I don't know all their details, but we're kind of in the same bucket.

And well, the thing is, is let me let me let me let me let me let you.

And I just don't feel the need to take it.

Yeah, that's fine. You need to seek tax consultant because you can only give $19,000 to another individual in a calendar year.

Are you married?

Yeah.

I am.

Okay, your wife can give your mom the other about you. Give her $19,000, your wife can give her the other two checks.

Okay, that's how you're going to execute this.

What I don't want you to think is going to happen is this is going to make your mom's heart not be broken.

Your mom's heart was broken by your grandmother, not by you.

And you can't fix that.

Money will not fix that.

And this money will not fix that.

It's your decision, though. I don't want this is weird. I don't like it. I don't want to be part of it.

That's your call. But don't ask this transaction to do something.

It doesn't have the power to do, which is heal your mom.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next.

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Josh and Aaron are with us on the debt free stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey guys, how are you?

Good.

Good. Welcome. Welcome. Where do you guys live? North Vancouver, Canada. Oh wow. Nice trip to Nashville, huh?

Yes it is. Wow. Well, welcome. Good to have you. And how much debt of YouTube paid off?

93,451 dollars and six cents. How long did that take? 25 months. Good. Good for you. And your range of income during that two years?

We started at 73,000 and we're at about 120,000. Excellent. What do you guys do for a living?

I am a Baptist pastor. Awesome. Very nice. So great you guys. What was the 93,000?

It was three personal loans, two credit cards and a family loan. Wow. All of it. Just the normal stuff.

So what happened two years ago that made you go enough already and do all this Ramsey stuff thing?

So our daughter took Rachel's high school class actually. Oh yeah. In her school and she kept coming home and going, Rachel says we need to do this. Rachel says to do that.

Such an influencer. So not Dave says so she started looking into the Ramsey and then he got hooked.

I was I liked Dave's direct approach. I guess that's the pastor in me and I started listening to the podcast and read the book in one sitting.

And I did what you're not supposed to do. I went to my wife and I said we're doing this. I don't care. And you know, we're going to start tomorrow and she was not as on board with that right away.

But we started listening to the podcast and the reason she got on board was actually the debt free screams.

So you heard it and something what happened inside you that made you think like that is inspiring. I guess it gave me hope that if others could do it then sure we could do it too.

Yeah, because you felt like 93,000 was just too much. You didn't think it was possible. It was the one area in our marriage that we struggled having conversations about because I wanted to talk about it.

She just didn't want to pretend it wasn't there.

Yes, and it just you know, I just got sick of living paycheck to paycheck being stressed out and she was feeling it as well. And so that's why we started the journey.

Amazing you guys. Okay. So marriage before little chaotic around the subject. Some avoidance, you know, some fighting probably. What is it like now after you walk through two years of this journey together?

It's probably one of our favorite topics. Yeah. We love our monthly meetings. We like we look forward to it and see.

And just says it's totally different. Doing the every dollar budget. That app just helped us so much. And you know, once we started doing that, you know, it wasn't like it set us free.

We were able to do what we needed to do. She was able to buy what she needed to buy and keep everything, you know, going in the right directions.

That's amazing you guys. Well done. You still move the needle at $45,000 a year.

It's a lot. Yes. Yeah. For the $4,000 a month for two years. Yeah. That's really great. That's pretty crazy.

It has a video game collection. So we sold a lot of that. Oh, yeah. And then he used to have. Yeah.

He used to have. And also he started selling an R eBay and I was like, Hey, that's pretty easy. So I started to take over that. I know absolutely nothing about video games.

But I like selling them. So I'll go through. Yes. So we do a lot of thrifting and he's very good at fixing things. So he'll clean them up, fix them and then I'll sell them.

Good for you guys. You know, I kind of a side thing happening and you know, to bring in some extra income to. Good for you guys. Okay. What was what was the hardest part though for two years?

That's a lot of a lot of work. A lot of cutting out things in the budget. All of it. What was the hardest part?

Just saying no to things that we used to say yes to. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Especially with the kids. Yes. We didn't eat out. We didn't go on any vacations. We just, you know, we lived on this little as we could possibly live. And we sold everything we could possibly sell.

And so that was hard. Was worth it 100% yes. Yes. Yes. 100%. Talk to somebody who's out there listening or watching that is going, you know, I don't know.

I don't know if I want to miss out on eating out for two years. I don't know if I want to miss out on dot dot dot.

I would just say it's worth the sacrifice. The freedom, the peace that we have now compared to before we started. It doesn't even compare.

And we just have so much more financial freedom. And you should just do start now one day at a time and it'll change your life. And this has changed our lives.

So how many years you've been married? Almost 20. 20.

So you guys changed a whole, a whole 20 years of marriage. You know, to mean a shift of 18. Yes. Yes. Probably the biggest change in our lives. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Does the freedom feel as great as you expected or even better? Much better. I think better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Once we once we made that last payment, it was like, OK, you know, what what do we do now? Totally. Yes. Yes.

And so we're looking forward to the future. We want to pay off our home and keep moving forward in that direction. And we just we just know it's possible now.

So we know we're going to keep going on it. We're different people than we were before we started. So good. You know, I think that's such a good point though.

The sense that I think so many people live with debt and it's so normal, but they don't even realize the weight that they carry. Yes.

And even though you all recognize it because you're like, we don't want it anymore. Still even after that final step after that final payment, you're like, that was even, it's even better than what I expected.

It's like you don't even realize how much stress you're carrying on your carrying that debt until it's gone. You're like, wow. So good.

So good. And in your 20 years of marriage, have you ever been debt-free?

I guess when we first got married the first couple of years, but then I made some dumb decisions. I was actually investing and doing good things.

And I took out our money and bought a car. You know, all the all the wrong things.

You started out debt-free and then you became normal.

And you have four beautiful kids over there. I can see them. What was that like for them on the X-Menor? You said you had to cut out some things because of them, but what was what was it like having four kids in the house and doing this?

They were actually on board. They were very gracious with us whenever we would explain, sorry, it's not in the budget this month. They were really good about it.

Yeah, they jumped on board and just did it with us.

I would say that they don't want to see a box of craft dinner for a long time, which is our American Mac and cheese.

So, you know, like, come more please. Like we're done. We're so sick of it.

Yes. Oh, that's amazing. Incredible, you guys. I mean, that's a feat of what you all just did.

Yeah, you changed your family tree because they watched their mom and dad become heroes.

Thank you.

And they'll never be the same because they, you know, more is caught than taught. They're going to do what you do, not what you say.

And so they watched you change your whole family tree using these spiritual principles from the Bible. You preach from every Sunday.

Yes.

And congratulations. We're very proud of you guys. Thank you.

Thank you. Very, very, very well done. All right. Bring the kiddos up and introduce them and give us their ages.

All right. We have Cali. She's our oldest. She's 17. Elena's 14.

And then we have Raylene's 12 and then my youngest son, Lance's 10.

Lance, you're holding up all the girls. And Cali, you're the one that brought Rachel home and started the whole thing, right?

Hey, girl. Okay. There we go. There we go. I love it. Rachel says Rachel says Rachel says.

You're probably five months into that mac and cheese. You're like, Dad, come in.

I told mom and dad about Rachel. Oh my gosh.

Hey, way to go. You guys, you're a model. You're absolutely beautiful. Congratulations. You transform your life.

All right. Josh and Aaron and the team, 93,000 paid off in 25 months, making 73 to 120 counted down.

Let's hear a debt free scream. Ready? Three, two, one.

We're debt free. Yeah.

Woohoo.

That's how you do it, ladies and gentlemen. Love it.

All right. Let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates.

But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day.

Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agent. That's Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agent.

Our scripture of the day, Galatians 6 10. So then as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Warren Buffett says opportunities come in frequently when it rains gold put out the bucket, not the thimble. Emily is an acronym. Hi, oh, hi, Emily. How are you?

Hi, I'm doing all right. Cool. What's up?

So about three years ago, I have some of his able job to start his own business. And since then he's racked up about a million dollars in debt. He's run as money to run the business.

Personally, I don't feel like he's worked very hard to make it work. He's recently just from back to work to try and give us an income because mine's the only one I just started a job also.

So I mean, wait a minute. Stop the vending machine business that he spent a million dollars on is not making money.

Correct. Why?

Correct. Well, I think you tried to buy too many too fast. And he followed the Robert KSAC UA and kept telling me you got to get into debt to make money, which I strongly disagree with.

I don't know if I should be pursuing bankruptcy. That's what he wants to do. Personally, I feel like the Bible is very clear on paying back our debt. But at the same time, the business is probably only worth 450,000.

So that would be less with about $500,000 of the money.

Who's the million dollars? Who's the million dollars owed to?

A lot of it is personal credit cards. He locks. He took out a couple of mortgages on our house. We don't have any equity in our home anymore.

A house. There's another rental house.

We did have a rental house. We just sold one. We have another one. But it's not selling. That one told me worth about $60,000.

And how long has this been going on in only three years? A few years. Yeah.

Okay. And you're done. I hear it in your voice. You're pretty pissed. I'm very done. Yeah.

Because you and you've had to go back to work. Do you guys have kids? We have four. How old are they?

13, 12, 10 and 6. Man.

All right. I'm sorry. So there's nothing left to sell against the million that's still outstanding.

You could try and sell some of the micro market and you have money and you should. But what do you sell it for would be a huge loss?

I mean, selling the whole business as a whole, the most would be like 45,500,000 is what he's been told.

So then you'd have half a million. And there's how much is there still a million owed?

Right now, all together with all the debt. Yeah. We all just under a million dollars right now. He hasn't sold it yet.

He has two people running it. But it's not making money. He doesn't have enough money to like sell inventory.

Okay. So if he sold it for 450, who would that pay off?

I guess it's kind of who we want to pay off. It could be. So the vending machines don't have a lean against them. The business doesn't have a lean against it.

Well, he leases some of the micro markets and he rents to own some of the vending machines. Some of the vending machines he does own outright. But most of it is in debt.

Okay. I'm trying to figure out what the 450,000 would be used to pay off.

Well, that clear. Well, how much of that?

With that clear all of those rent to own machines and all that or does that actually get to clean up some of your house debt?

He wants to put in your 20,000. I didn't ask what he wanted. I mean, what is the money going to be have to be used to clean up these machines in order for the thing to be marketable?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So you're going to have to.

So you've got $450,000 worth of debt on the machines that you would just use that money to clear that debt.

So selling it doesn't really net you any cash to pay off like your credit cards or your house. It just clears some of the debt that's on the machines.

Correct. And get you more than 450,000 on the machines, right?

Yes.

Okay. And then then you have your house and you have credit cards and you have a he lock, right?

And a $60,000 rental. Now you're.

Yes.

Okay. It's not being rented. It know it's vacant. You were trying to sell it and it's just in there right now.

Okay. So, wow. There's so much going on here.

And you guys have no money. Emily, right? None and retirement or.

No, during our 401k to do it and our personal credit. Did you know there's no money?

Did you know this was going on? Or would he make decisions and tell you later?

We would agree on things and then we would go do it every wanted.

Eventually, I kind of released it over to him and I found out because our credit card got declined and then I checked our bank account.

How much do you make it your day job?

Right now, I'm a 25 an hour working 30 hours.

And what does he make it his day job?

Are you just started last week and it's 21 hour base and he's trying to sell insurance with all state.

Okay. All right.

Well, if you were to file chapter 7 bankruptcy, you would have to re-sign on all the death that is on your home, including it.

He locks or anything else. That doesn't go away or you lose the home one of the two.

Yeah, how much is all that? Emily, the he lock on the home.

It's like $450,000 and I think our home is worth a little under that.

So the bulk of that second part of the dead is the home.

Wait a minute. Let me back up. So if you sold your home and sold the business, you would clear up 900,000 of the million.

Well, I know because we wouldn't we wouldn't.

I'm sorry. So we owe about 450,000 out of house right now.

Is that part of the million?

No, the he lock is, which is like another 200,000.

The personal like mortgage is only 250 right now.

Okay. So it would clean up 200,000 of the million.

250 would be cleaned up when he sells the business. So that's 650 is cleared, which would leave you about 350,000 in other debt.

If you sold your house and sold the business.

Yeah, credit card and business debt.

And the business debt. When you say business debt, what is that?

Like business loans, he's taken out.

Okay. Well, they're signed personally so they're not business loans.

They're just personal loans he used to buy bending machines with.

Now, if you sold the business for 450, are there any machines that are not included in that package?

No, he would sell all of them.

That would be done.

Okay.

Okay. So what I'm trying to do is work through if we cleaned house.

Because in a chapter seven, you're going to clean house anyway.

And then if the other 300,000 or whatever gets wiped out if he files bankruptcy.

So usually when I'm getting into these things, bankruptcy doesn't do as much for you as you think it does.

Because if you sold the business, this old the house, we've not got a lot left to do.

And that can be negotiated. That debt can be negotiated down for pennies on the dollar versus filing bankruptcy.

So it's possible mathematically, legally, you could probably work your way through this.

I don't know, but I think you could. Okay.

Just based on what I've heard. I'm trying to get figured all out. There's a lot of moving parts.

I got to tell you, I'm about having been through this only I was 28 years old.

And I was the stupid husband.

Okay. I was him. I didn't lie, but I just did stupid stuff.

I just went deeply in debt and lost everything on real estate.

It wasn't bending machines, but the same thing.

And I'm more concerned about him being depressed or suicidal and I'm more concerned about your marriage.

Yeah.

Then I am about any of this money.

And you're rightfully so very disgusted right now.

But if I were going to coach you guys, I would coach him on throwing his shoulders back and building out chapter two of your old's life.

And I would coach you guys on sitting down with your pastor with a good marriage counselor and try to work your way through this where he repents of the stupidity.

And he begins a process to rebuild trust with his wife and relationship with his wife because you are very disgusted right now.

And you should be. Yeah.

You should be.

But money fights, money problems, take marriages.

Number one reason for male suicide is financial issues. So there's some, there's big, big, big issues.

I want to take care of you two.

Yeah.

90% of this discussion and 10% bankruptcy are not who cares.

I try to sell everything and work my way through it.

That puts this hour of the Rams is showing the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace.

And that's to all daily with the Prince of Peace.

Christ Jesus.