Woody White Dishes About NC Politics

0:00I'm gonna talk about his history that's talking about the hills It's talking about the goldmine be waiting for me there Let's talk about the goldmine, it's not the land she's in the hills Let's talk about the goldmine be waiting for me there Everybody's a tension, please I like to introduce this Cassie to the podcast I'll gather around now Yeah, I mentioned earlier my wife ran a Congressional campaign in 1996 And that was sort of my on trade to getting seeing what public services all about And meeting a lot of people and getting involved in In 2004, I was asked or appointed to fill an unexpired Senate seat here in New Heniver And I ran in the general election that year And lost by 800 votes out of 81,000 So it's the closest Senate race in the state, the most expensive Ugly and awful in every way And as I mentioned it

1:01In the moment, it's like the worst thing ever happened to you You put all this effort and energy into something and you lose by 800 votes out of 81,000 It's terrible My life is ruined I can never get forward in politics or government's terrible Well, life does go on And I look back on that as as God's way of working in my life Because it made me realize I wanted to be home every night with my children They were four and two at the time I had been spending three nights in broadly serving out that term And I remember the first year or two thinking gosh, I need to be right here It's bath time They're ball games, everything And so God was looking out for me And so fast forward to 2012 I ran for New Heniver County Commission And served two terms And you know, it felt like I did a pretty good job on a number of key issues I'm sure I made plenty of mistakes There's nobody perfect in public office at all But I learned a lot and met a lot of people

2:02And I think I made a pretty big difference And so since then I term-limited myself I'm a believer in term limits I think there's a lot of value I wish more people would term-limited themselves to be honest with you And so 2020 came I got up out of my seat I said thank you all very much I walked out of that commissioner's room in downtown Wellington Never looked back But I've stayed involved And I've been fortunate to serve in a couple of positions in Raleigh And help people that are running for office And so I'm very proud and humbled by the position I have to try to influence public policy And try to make things better But I also have the luxury now I'm not having to raise money and have my name on a ballot It's great I have my cake and eat it too so to speak People always ask me they're like Why don't you run? You should run Nobody loves nor care a lot of the way that you do And I'm like Y'all I get stressed Easy Easy you don't see it

3:02Because you're on the other side of the screen Right? But There's- I couldn't handle it I could not handle people making stuff up about me I could not handle people digging into my past Like I just couldn't handle it So I don't know how I got to do it It's hard, it particularly nowadays But you know it's always been that way in America I mean And our founding fathers went through this Each one they they accused each other Of you know father and children out of wedlite And stealing money from people It's terrible what they have accused each other But today it's become just more prolific It seems like And it is a real thing Having people pick at you Having death threats left on your phone It's happened many many times to me Unfortunately And But you know I when I did serve and and and and what I do now Some of the public things I do I don't worry much about that God's got a plan for me He's got a plan for all of us And I feel like my voice is very important I try to make I try to do the right thing

4:02Change the world one person at a time And And You know well it's not a good thing to run around Trying to collect enemies If you do that by standing up for something It's okay You just kind of you get used to it But It shouldn't be that way Because I do think it chases a lot of people Like maybe Cassie Clark And other incredibly talented people From wanting to be in the arena And and the reverse of that is true too Because now Cassie Clark And maybe Woody White Maybe these others are like Okay I'm not going to do that anymore Well who does do it And who fills that vacuum And we could talk all day long Without mentioning names About what you are seeing right now Particularly in urban areas Of the people that are choosing To say oh well I'll do it I don't care what people say about me I'll go ahead And right and look what's happening Charlotte and Raleigh And Here But that's another conversation So You experience a lot of those things When you do what I do too

5:04Um Death threats People just being ugly for no reason People wanting to dig into your background And I'm like I experience that already You know like and I feel like I actually do Positive for my state doing what I'm doing now When I imagine like trying to go Raleigh On top of everything else that I do There's just no way And then you add on the extra stress Because then it's not just some random person On the internet digging information on you It's the newspapers right It's media journalists It's That's that's a lot It is and it's It's a contact sport And I've been in it Now for over 30 years And I've For the most part Learned the The rules of engagement And learned how to play on the field And But yeah It's a contact sport Because the things we're fighting for Are so important And they're important To the other side for different reasons too And you know

6:04In our Democracy and the way that we go about Doing things and governing ourselves You You want your policy to win And they won't They're a policy to win And there's very little compromising That doesn't mean there isn't compromise at times But on the key things that matter It's When he Means one way of life And losing means another way of life And so these things matter And that's what I try to remind myself When I'm getting These death threats Or people mad at you That's something All the comments on Facebook Some of them are really good And some of them are But that's the way it is When you talk about You know the battle The back and forth Between one side and the other Do you think that The actual citizen Sometimes get lost in that? I tried never to let the citizens Get lost when I Think about it When I thought about it When I was in public office I think some of the backroom battles And the backroom way of

7:05How policy is cobbled together Absolutely I think that happens Because You know sometimes I've been in those rooms And Sometimes you walk out of those rooms You feel like you need to go take Immediately take a shower Because it's just Not corruption or illegality But just Who's priorities are we really focusing on here And And so But I will say The optimist in me And the positive way I try to look at the world Most of the time The right thing happens To affect the greatest number of people Even in matter of tax policy Or education policy Or whatever you pick your topic Not always But most of the time And And there's You know there's no other Better system of government In the history of mankind than what we have So we've got to deal with it We've got to live with it And make it better And try not to lose Site of Who it is we're representing Who it is we're trying to fight for

8:05Which is just average Mom and Dad's that better Going to work in doing what they need to do every day They're not thinking about rally or wash into DC And so it's important for these office holders To keep reminding themselves of that That kind of leads into what We're about to talk about North Carolina has a new senate leader For the first time in how many years Well it doesn't yet But it will And so And yeah In the last 34 years Cassie there have been two Leaders of the North Carolina Senate And the real Most influential powerful people In the state of North Carolina in my view Are an equal of the speaker of the house And the leader of the senate And to a lesser extent the governor That's it And so if you imagine One of those three positions Being held by two people over Span of basically a generation It's really a remarkable chapter That we're getting ready to write in North Carolina history Mark Baznite was pro-tim of the senate

9:06For 18 years Phil Berger It will have been pro-tim Of the senate for 16 years These are two very different men With very different Bastley different views of the world Of policy of North Carolina And There's going to be someone new Come January 1st Chosen probably in December by the caucus By the majority caucus And I selfishly hope that's going to be Michael Lee From New Hennepur County There are a lot of great people That are sort of vying for it And thinking about it And And they all do great That the ones that I've heard I know them They all love North Carolina They're devoted to their jobs But to me I think Michael possesses the exact right amount of chemistry That Has experienced He works really hard He's a policy walk Like he really reads Page 48 Section 62 of the bills

10:07And thinks about it But he also has kind of the people skills That you need to Unify people around a common purpose And lead them Not suggesting the other ones don't have that But just as a person That has been around for a long time And seeing a lot of these legislators In an out of the building Michael's a unique Got a unique set of skills And And of course he's my friend Of known him For 25 years Our children grew up together We knew each other before we had kids And so I'm biased Obviously But But regardless of what happens It's a finite group of voters The caucus will choose But it is going to be a new chapter No matter who they choose Come January 1 What kind of change do you expect to see After the Senate leader changes Well change will be inevitable When you have the third person And you know three and a half Three and a half decades In the spot I think there'll be changes Of how the caucus

11:09Governs itself You know i'm not a member of the caucus So i don't want to speak for any of them But I just as a personal opinion Believe that they will There'll probably be more involvement From you know your rank and file members Of the caucus That's a good thing Because I think if you're a rank and file member of a caucus Maybe you're a new senator or you're in your first or second term You want a couple of things You want a leader that's going to represent you well You want Someone that's going to help you raise money You're going to want someone that Or you want someone that's going to listen to you Hey what's going on in your district Can I help you in some way No suggesting Phil or Mark maybe didn't do that at all But But These are new for the most part New caucus members This is kind of a new paradigm and And so there will be organic changes That the senate caucus undergoes And how it communicates with the outside How it communicates with itself And governs itself I predict

12:10But we'll just have to wait and see how that goes Michael Lee I From New York County You know So I mean As soon as I found out Because you told you're actually the one who told me Well that this was going to happen And so I looked it up And I saw Michael Lee's name And I was like He's so wanted He's great He adjunct Professor for a period of time at UNCW Went to UNCW You grew up and done A really small little tiny town Like an hour or so Hour and a half from here Merried to Heidi Has four children And Michael has us Has Well I should say this Michael has four incredible children That all born and raised right here And so He didn't move here recently Just start running for office He didn't move here recently And Think that running for office Is a way to be somebody And Work and you know Earn money He's been here his whole adult life And he's raised his whole family His root system in this county Is as deep as anyone else's

13:11And he loves it And he cares Strongly for it And his role is pro-tim If he's fortunate enough to get that He will take that same kind of commitment I think To the whole state of North Carolina And I know that's a Pine the sky kind of comet But but it's true I've been around a lot of these people My whole career And I feel excited about the idea That if he gets that position But of course whoever gets it Is is going to be A new chapter in North Carolina So If somebody From the coast Ends up holding the gavel Does that change anything for the folks Who make their living on the water Or is it still going to be the same old Pibasha Oh gosh I was told that you asked questions like this And I've seen And other pods you've done You ask questions like this You know I mean Look I am

14:12I'm almost I'm turning 57 in two weeks So I've seen a lot of this And I think Having a new Senate leader next year Whether it's Michael or someone else Having a new speaker essentially Because the speaker is one year Into his First speaker term And having a governor that's a year and a half Into his first term It really is I mean it's like A new chapter in the state history of our state But your question about the influence And the Piedmont You use the word Piedmont I tend to break it down to Wake County and Mecklenburg County You know That's great A lot of people live there They need to be well represented And cared for I understand But I spent two years of my life at high school in the mountains I'm from the coast We have a lot of needs In both parts of the state That aren't in Wake in Mecklenburg County And so without offending our friends That serve in those counties Or live there

15:13I predict that With the speaker being from the mountains In a small town And with Potentially Michael Lee being on the coast It's It's going to broaden I think the aperture Of how Resources are allocated And how policy is looked at That's a That's a bold prediction But I believe it That really matters to me I mean When Hurricane Helene happened I was just shocked I was absolutely shocked I mean because Of course That's spent most of my life down here I've been through all these hurricanes I've seen all these storms Down here it works like clockwork Right? Like we have We have experience We know what we're doing Right And usually that's what my family did I mean if there was a big storm coming My daddy or my papal would come get me And they would take me to the mountains Because that's where you were going to be safe And Helene just completely shattered that And then watching the aftermath was horrifying

16:17And so my concern is You know if somebody who's from the Piedmont Gets this position again Are we going to keep this really narrow lens Right on our biggest cities Because somehow these are the most important And forget everybody else I mean my roots are on both sides of the state So for somebody like me It's important that we start taking a look At what's going on down east And what's going on in the mountains I couldn't agree more And you know when you Watch interviews from the speaker He talks about issues that affect all of North Carolina But as far as I've seen He never forgets to mention or talk about where he's from Which is the mountains I think that's great Because the mountains I hate to use the word neglect But they're just tend to They don't complain about a lot Because mountain people just kind of take care of themselves And their own And so over the years I think inside the bellways Like we don't need to worry about the mountains It's fine

17:17And so having him in that position I think is key And then you know just having Michael Whether he's leader of the Senate or not Having him in the role of majority leader here Keeps a focus on coastal issues too Not to the detriment of the mental of the state Because again as you point out They got plenty of political influence And cloud resources And it's not that we need more money Or but we do Sometimes you just feel like you need more love I mean east in 95 You know we haven't had a US attorney That served here Picked by the president in my lifetime They always come from Raleigh But they come down here and And they do a good job And they're great public servants But that's just an example I remember years ago when we were Trying to get a US attorney here For the whole 21 county district From Wilmington Fastest growing We have an international airport International port We have all of these federal issues And law enforcement task force

18:19But our primary Law enforcement official was from Raleigh And for years we didn't even have An assistant that staffed the office down here I mean this is a years ago And I know Ellis Boyle has changed a lot of that And he's doing an incredible job But that's just an example of how Over time you're like hey What's going on with us Don't forget about us And I think that next year Over the next few cycles Things will be a little different In a good way I hope so I love that you brought up Ellis I love Ellis Actually talking a bit So that's wild But You know when we're talking about issues That the coast experiences I actually just put out a podcast I think it was yesterday about shrimp gate A lot of people are very passionate On both sides about this Me personally I mean I have very deep roots Right here And so when it comes to you telling A family That they can't shrimp And they can't shrimp here

19:19And they have to do this And or you're just going to ban it Have a problem with that A lot of people got upset with me about it I don't really care A lot of these people aren't from here Or they moved in from here Now they want to tell people who are from here How to live their lives I guess what I want to ask here is Do you think that having somebody From the coast Is going to help when issues like that come up Whether it be recreational Whether it be commercial Whether it be small businesses That I mean Our ocean is a resource And that has to not only be protected But it has to be available To those of us who You know Make a living from it Yeah Yeah that was unfortunate Chapter what happened Last year with shrimp gate That policy argument With whether or not to regulate In short Harvesting Has been going on for decades I mean it's essentially The commercial versus the recreational fish

20:19And men's association One on one side and one on the other Sometimes one has more political influence And other times the other does It's not unlike In deer hunting You have kind of the folks That hunt with dogs And the guys that don't hunt with dogs And sometimes they're Adversity each other In terms of policy making And deer management plans and stuff And so This is North Carolina Leave our hunting dogs one Yes Absolutely Absolutely But you give them a point Right There are people that don't agree with that A lot of people And so I think what happened Last year was There was There was a Quick understanding of a policy change It maybe wasn't fully vetted Or worked through each caucus For whatever reasons And when it came up For what was supposed to be A routine kind of situation Boy The teapot just exploded And And you know I think there was some

21:19Collateral damage from it Without a doubt But I do think it It made a lot of people Not just people like you That might not pay attention To this every single day Like just your average guy Hold on a second What's going on here These policies matter Where your wake zones are Are you going to allow Inshore harvesting of oysters You know The shrimp gate problem I mean Salt water management policy Is a huge thing to the people That live Near the salt water Just like fresh water policy Is a big deal for For streams and rivers And ponds and lakes And other parts of the state And so You know It's important that People are heard about that And how it affects their industry How it affects Their day to day life If they happen to fish for a living Or if they just fish for fun And Yeah, that was That was a mess I think Having talked to some of the people On both sides Over the last year or so I think everybody agrees That that could have been handled differently

22:22Yeah I think I was shocked That this just came out To me Because I'm not overly involved But being a bystander It was like Wait, they're doing what And we had No idea this was coming Like that was shocking I mean you're talking about something That would Radically change Our coastal culture Over night And There was no lead up to that Like we just didn't know Like just one day we wake up And hey You guys need to start making noise Or this is going to pass Like within the week Like it was wild Yeah, it was And I know it had Kind of been below the surface Literally for 20 years Because when I was in the In the Senate years ago I remember The verbal fist fights And the hallways Ever this very thing And in 20 years Goodbye And then this happens So it It did not come out of left field But to 99% of the people That's exactly how it was perceived Like oh my gosh Just coming out of left field Where'd this come from

23:23And I think that's where the real mistake was And I don't And not attribute harm Or fault to any one person or group But I just think as a general idea Such a big policy decision like that That affects a lot of people A lot of people are passionate about it And you got to spend a lot more time Letting them talk Letting them share their views And then make a decision In a deliberative process On the floor of the House and Senate Let them debate it Let them vote on it Let the people come and talk about it And Yeah I'm not sure you're going to see a mistake Like that in the future Anytime near Anytime in the near future I hope not anyway I hope not Pitted for it Pitted friends against each other And it was just a mess out there But anyway That's above my pay grade I actually made a post recently about this You know Because I'm not a Republican In the The sense that a lot of other people Think of Republicans I'm really just kind of Very old school conservative

24:25And Some of these things That I keep seeing I'm like The the Shramping Man That was insane Not being able to drink raw milk I grew up on a cattle farm You know Like I literally Milk to cow At This big And drink the milk You know And the government is telling me I can't do that In North Carolina That is Don't get me started on that I'm not an expert on milk And pasteurization I'm drinking it out of the cow Directly or not But You touch on a very Key point About the level Into the extent of which We should tolerate government in our lives And I think 50 years ago Some of the things we talk about Our people be like What are you talking about The government's not ever going to be involved in that No, they don't they don't care Just go live your life The government's fine All in that The government is in your life From the moment you wake up From the moment you're born

25:27To the moment you wake up every day The moment you go to sleep And the moment you die And Our founding fathers did not really envision that And I know you're going to probably ask me about flock technology You're going to ask me about these things This is all Well I read your post I saw what people said I mean this is a very important topic It's timely Because it's not just flock It's other things We're going to come back to that Before we do that though I want to talk about the state bar So you're actually involved With the North Carolina state bar I'm going to go ahead and admit it I know nothing about this I'm not an attorney I am not I have no idea How our state bar works Or even what they do So you're going to have to explain it to me in detail All right Well I just I just Know that half of your audience Probably just dropped off Because they're like oh my god Lawyers Who cares I'll be very brief The state bar Licenses and governs

26:27Who can be an lawyer Law schools are accredited They go to law school You take the bar exam You pass the bar exam And then you can become an attorney Meaning you can go to court And you can provide legal services Right And so right now In North Carolina I think maybe there are 32,000 lawyers Shakespeare would suggest That's 31,000 under 99 Too many I'm sure Um And so But but this the state bar is what governs Who can be a lawyer And how they conduct themselves Do they comply with the professional rules Of responsibility In conduct and so forth And And so three Three years ago or so The legislature convened Or created a non-standing committee And said hey We want the non-standing committee To review the processes Of how the state bar goes about regulating Its attorneys Because I think there was a feeling And I shared this opinion In the legislature that The state bar

27:27Tended to look at conservative Viewpoints and conservative lawyers In one way And tended to sort of Look at others in another way Now a lot of members of my profession Will vehemently disagree with that And be angry at that But But knowing what I know As a 31 year member of the bar Having been licensed up and down Appeared in dozens of North Carolina counties For my career I'm licensed in the fourth circuit in Richmond I've been sworn in by Chief Justice Rhinquist of the US Supreme Court in Washington D.C. I know my my industry I will tell you that there There was Legitimate concern that the legislature had About that concept And it's same by the way in the medical profession When you saw doctors Forcing COVID vaccines on people And you saw You know And it's it's the same I got an email from someone from the appraisal board That's it all they do it at the appraisal board It's the same for influencers

28:28If you come out And you say you're I'm a conservative Well then there's goes your shot To work with brands There goes your shot to work with tourist commissions There goes your shot to make money So you better hope you're good at what you do And it's it's different set of rules It's the double standard we hear about And so what the legislature did in creating this committee Senator Berger asked me to be co-chair of it And I was happy to do that And it was populated by a Supreme Court justice By Court of Appeals judge The president of the state bar A governor's appointee And then the chief justice appointed a comment So seven people in in our industry Of of great accomplishment Particularly the judges with with acumen And thoughtful approaches to things And we looked at a lot of reform measures The bar resisted a lot of this up front But ultimately they co- they collaborated with us We got a bill passed Governor Cooper even signed it into law A couple years ago So a year goes by

29:29And the legislature I think felt like Well we need to look at some more things Not only the IOT by the way But which you saw the interest on lawyers' trust accounts What what the legislature just did in changing that Because they were taking some of that money They were literally giving it to advocacy groups That were thwarting ICE efforts And that were you know Doing things that are not consistent With North Carolina policy And so they They revived this committee That I chaired earlier this year And we looked at a lot of other reform measures And we adopted a reform Recommendation list And it's my hope that the legislature Looks at that and takes that under advisement So there that's the boring And most entertaining part Of a boring question that you can possibly have If there if anybody cares that's listening to this They can get a legislative website And look up state bar review committee And they can read all our minutes They can read everything that we are recommending they do

30:29My main question is Is what is your recommendation Regarding Certain policies or treatment That favors Democrats which seems to be Kind of the rumor that I've heard Are you guys trying to correct that And how are you trying to correct that I mean my personal View of it is we we're just trying to level the play in field Nobody in any state agency State bar medical board you name it Should favor anybody for their politics or their point of view If you've got a role as a state agency In regulating You know licensing and compliance on the rules And you do it objectively And you have you you have thought diversity With amongst your employees State bar for example has 101 employees And we asked a question about You know what's the political registration of them Now we we knew the answer And you know it wouldn't surprise you

31:31What Probably how that was now does that mean is Is that correlated directly to bias Not maybe not But it's a data point It tends to suggest that maybe you know If 80 to 90 percent of people look at something one way That's the way they're going to get And I'll give you a perfect example In October of 2020 the state bar You anonymously passed a rule Requiring all lawyers to undergo DEI training Inplicit bias training Now think about this If you don't do that You will lose your low license And so if you don't agree with the oppressor oppressed Rewriting of American history If you So if you're not a communist If you're not a communist or something like that And you choose not to go to that hour You know what you're not going to be an attorney Because we'll take your low license Now but for the grace of God The conservatives on the Supreme Court At the last minute intervened and prevented that But the state bar passed that unanimously

32:32That's just one example of how you're like How could that possibly happen If you want to opt into something like that Part it's America You can take all those classes you want You can do it But to institutionalize a compulsory rule That forces members to undergo brainwashing Was just unconscionable to me and a lot of others And ultimately I think that was sort of what The legislature led to my committee Or our committee doing what we did Do you remember when Hillary Clinton came out And said that Trump supporters needed to be deprogrammed Yeah Forcing something like that What you're talking about De-training for attorneys Which is really just Necessary for the ones who aren't on the left Is that not exactly what she was talking about? Of course Of course And you know she would take it not just Through the bar association which we've seen recently

33:33Them undergo quite a bit of scrutiny from the House From Congressman Gill But she took it literally to corporate America And would blackmail corporate America You know you're going to do this And you're going to do that Or you're not going to Get favorable tax policy, etc. I mean look if anybody Doesn't really believe that The left wants to radically change And undermine and destroy the American way of life Then they're not paying attention It's right in front of you And it's been in front of us now for over a decade And so I'm glad that most people Not all But most people in the Republican Party are finally Waking up in a tune To the real consequence of ignoring it Now we ignored I didn't but there were a lot of people that ignored HB2 10 or 12 years ago People got all upset about that Governor McCory Got to tag with you know With it as a as a big it and all this

34:34Well look what he was talking about Look what I can remember So we lived here at the time And my girls were young And this was something you didn't see here And so I can remember being like Why are we doing this? This is just And then Afterwards after all the dust settled It was like look what this kicked off And then More time progressed And then you start going into your local Harris Teter You start going into Ulta Anywhere in the state Maybe not so much Western or Parts of Western North Carolina But And now you see it everywhere and you're like Oh That's why Yeah and you know if you spoke up In favor of that back then You were crucified If you were a coach If you were a elected office holder And all that that bill was really trying to do Was uniformly conformed North Carolina To protecting spaces for women Particularly young women in sports also It's all it was doing

35:35You know you choose The bathroom if you will of your Gender on your birth certificate And later in life if you want to change that And you pay for it yourself And you know be my guess Whatever you want to do it's America But But that small group of people Imposed its will on the vast majority of the rest of us And everybody was okay with it And I look back on that as sort of the Tipping point Because Because At five six seven years later Then you start hearing these stories And now look where we are It migrated to little girl sports You know the Payton McNabb story I mean I can name all the rally gains Just go on and on and on But Payton McNabb's actually from here She's from Western North Carolina Yeah and you know it's And so I guess back to the general question It's the cats out of the bag I mean if you want to preserve our way of life Meaning the American way of life that we all

36:36grew up Loving and believing in the American dream so to speak There is a large contingent on the left That believes the opposite of that They want to destroy it They don't believe in it They're not going to assimilate to it And so I think that if you're a voter Or if you're an office holder Or if you're just an average person out there on the street You really got a choice to make Are you going to You're going to fight for what You were what you believe in And what your mom and dad Protected for you And what they bequeathed to you Or you're just going to let it go away You're going to let it die I have a lot of older Democrats in my life And I always get so frustrated with them Because When you tell them hey this is what's going on Or this is what's happening It's like that's not true And it's like yeah actually it is Right now like You are literally supporting That you want Boys to play sports With your granddaughter

37:37In elementary school, middle school, high school That's that's literally what you're supporting And they don't believe you I mean there's so many dozens of other things That I can think about But that one right there I mean I've asked so many my You know cousins, aunts, uncles You know and they have no idea They don't know Yeah And I had the same phenomenon When I was a commissioner I remember like during Pride Week You know you have elementary schools That have Pride Parades And rainbows in the classrooms And you know if you're a six year old And someone offers you a rainbow You don't know what it means And you don't want to say no You want to participate Because everybody has a rainbow But it's the small little incremental brainwashing And indoctrination That parents did not really know Was going on Even though if you paid attention You saw it If you had kids in those classrooms You knew But by and large people Like oh that's not really happening Oh it was happening And it got worse and worse

38:38And then all of a sudden We have drag shows In public libraries With family Saturday mornings Little kids Watching these fetish dances and things I mean it's um We could talk all day about that But the the fact that Our public officials Let that Make its way into public school classrooms Is abhorrent And I hope it's coming to an end I hope so too That That whole time period So I started making babies very young And Not even quite 30 And I'm suddenly seeing My kids Go to school And come back And talk about things That we didn't talk about Even in high school And I'm like I ended up pulling mine out In homeschool Because I just I know me I would get in trouble You know that leads And maybe we're not here to talk about School choice per se But that leads to that idea of school choice Because people with choice made a choice

39:39People with money Can always make a choice They can do whatever they want People with a little bit of money Kind of middle class Upper middle class They can make sacrifices And do whatever they want People without choice are stuck And so If you take your kid out And homeschool them Or put them in a private Christian school Or do whatever And you're taking care of your children That's incredibly good But people without choice Are left And so I think our policies Need to always remember And think about Everybody should have Maybe not equal to You don't have an equal choice Just by a Cadillac If you can't afford it I understand that But were public Education's concerned You really should have choice Every parent should Kind of have the same Level of choice And that's where these vouchers come in And And school choice That some people Are very happy about And others aren't Just give parents a Choice And make the classrooms Free Of cultural Experimentation Teach them how to read And write How to function in Society

40:39Be civil to each other Do their homework I mean that's really all you need to teach kids Everything else takes care of itself Classical education is seriously underrated And that was one of my biggest problems Is what do you mean You're teaching my kid Common Core You're teaching them morality That I don't even agree with And my kid is behind In reading a math What do you mean? That's not okay And so When I took my kids out It was like it took me a year To get them back on track And we sacrificed I mean we were not even middle class We were probably very Loist middle class you could be And that was a choice that we made So that I would feel comfortable With the education my kids I'm glad I did it May have taken us longer to get Where we were going But it was the right thing to do And you're right If we had been just a little A little poorer than what we were That wouldn't have happened

41:40Good point Okay so There are community questions I do this Yeah of course I didn't make them haul a lot nicer Than what some of them were But So Rob Yates Who is the communications director Of the Libertary Party Actually impressed me Because he had a nice question It was not mean It wasn't Yeah He has That was a nice question Yeah He said What would you change about the North Carolina Senate If you could wave a magic wand Well I don't have to wave a magic wand Because it's gonna change And I think if you look at January 1 How what would be the perfect paradigm In which it operates I think Involving more rank and file members Of the caucus In committee decisions And in policy And communicating that I mean Senator Berger's office And by the way let me say this About Senator Berger He lost his election

42:41And and and it's Sometimes people just focus on that Oh well he lost And and and he's leaving He turned this state around Almost single handedly He had he had some help But it was his vision And his kind of Early on when he took the gavel That paid $2.4 billion Back to the federal government That we were in debt over That now put billions of dollars In the bank in a rainy day fund That lowered income tax I could go on and on and on and on A lot of people voted for these policies But these for the most part Were Phil Berger's vision And those were his policies Now later in his career I think it's fair to say That his district Might not have been too happy About some of the casino conversation They probably weren't happy about You know marijuana being talked about And sports gambling And we Republicans don't really Aren't in the business historically Of legalizing drugs and gambling And I'm not saying he did that But I think under his tenure He got

43:42Tardin feathered with some of that But Back to Mr. Yates question That's in the rear view mirror And I think the Senate next year Will be looking over the next few cycles Of continuing Being the number one state In America for Jobs and for income growth And for infrastructure All the things that make our quality of life better And you know if Rob Yates is talking about rulemaking and stuff He probably should talk to an actual member of the caucus I'm not a member of the caucus But what the Senate will be undertaking I think is exciting And hope he'll pay attention to that Oh he will be and he will be in my DMs Complaining about everybody on both sides Every step of the way Here you brought it up already Flot cameras What is the legality of Flot cameras? What are we looking at right now? I know a lot of people Are unhappy that this just got shoved into the budget

44:45I know a lot of people Not a military part of the budget But a policy part of the budget A lot of people are upset period I personally am upset I do not let I mean I'm half hillbilly The government should not be in my business They should not be stalking me They should not be Have me Under surveillance And I know that The left has been shockingly silent on this This seems like it would be something they'd be all over And the right Has a large portion of us A whole lot more than not Have been speaking out against it And I'm not seeing any of the conservatives Who are serving Say anything about it It's like they're trying to bury their head in the sand Well you guys had to have approved this Or it wouldn't have happened So Well This is a complicated issue And I want to first sort of highlight The legal issues involved And kind of how I see it Because this is a great question And I hope if people get bored to death With the other answers I've given

45:46I hope they'll think through on this one Listen Because my answer today Would be completely different Had you asked me this question before COVID And I'll get to that But on the one hand Fluck is a great technology for many reasons If you're an amber alert It accelerates and facilitates cops Getting the kidnapper quicker And safer If you're a bank robber You're going to get nabbed a lot quicker If you're a violent criminal You're going to get found a lot quicker And interestingly in other parts of the country Where it's been outlawed It's been primarily by Socialist and anti-ice people Because it's been so effective Tracking down violent criminals And deporting them So there's a lot of positives That the flock Industry can point to and say Look we saved a child We incarcerated a criminal We deported a violent criminal Because of flock I agree

46:48However What I saw during COVID changed fundamentally How I view this question Of civil liberties versus law enforcement Now I know flock technology today If it's here in our county I know our sheriff uses it Sheriff Ed McMahon Honestly I have complete confidence And how he deploys it I think he's among the best If not the best sheriff in our state Worked with him for many years I know how honest he is And how devoted he is to these civil liberty issues I don't have any problem with how he doesn't But Does he govern the third party Company that he contracts with What about when he leaves What about 10 years from now And the sheriff of the future Let me put it this way I think before COVID Everyone would have done And did do whatever public health officials told them You go take your shots You get your vaccines You do this You do that We trusted them We believed in them We don't anymore

47:48Because they lied to us They took our information Do you remember Cassie when They hired 100,000 people And many of them right here in New Hennepur County with clipboards To run around and knock on doors To see you tested positive Don't go to the register grandma You're not allowed to go to the grocery store I mean it was Orwellian And people forget that And so back to the flock technology That's what scares me Now You don't have an expectation of privacy As a person driving around on a public road You pay for your license plate It's in your name The government has it You expect that You don't have to drive a car If you don't want to But if you do drive a car So So you're already out there in public per se But it's not just flock Taking a picture of your license plate And saying Oh that's Cassie Clark's car You know what it is It's following that car Where are you going How long are you there Who are you visiting Where are you going next What are you doing next

48:49And if you have a Mr. Fauci A flock if you will Getting that information And tabulating it And putting artificial intelligence to it You can do a lot of damage And and destroy the civil liberties that we have And so I'll conclude by saying this It's a very complicated issue I don't I don't want to criticize the legislature for Putting it in the but that's up to them to debate this in the future But I hope they will take a future Hard look What are we getting What is the cost What is the benefit What are we giving up What are we getting And and then decide what to do I mean you you're on camera Everywhere you go Anyway Cassie So here would be my question You're on camera when you did a bar When you did a restaurant Right You're on camera here at the beach When you're walking around on the street So so you you are on camera When we're talking about a restaurant We're talking about a private establishment

49:49When you talk about a house that has a ring camera You're talking about a private establishment I don't have a problem with necessarily You had me all the way up until you said And I agree Was that you know it's not just them taking a picture No you don't have any expectation of privacy in public You're 100% correct I I know this because I write a blog I can go outside right now And take a picture or video of anybody I want to And if it isn't a public place I'm allowed to use that And no one's allowed to say anything to me That is my right Right My thing is Is that You're not just These fought cameras aren't just taking a picture of me They're tracking me It is the government tracking me They are surveilling me And correct me if I'm wrong But the fourth amendment says that They need a warrant for that Maral That's the missing piece Because You know you have your phone And your phone is if you will Is the pre-flop flock

50:51Right Because they track you everywhere you go anyway And if you go in a Walmart And they're like oh Cassie went in a Walmart Next time she's anywhere near a Walmart We're going to send her an ad Maybe she'll go in that Walmart and spend some money They are doing this on your phone already We know this But that's corporate America That's not law enforcement So Walmart can't necessarily force you to do something I think the fourth amendment Analysis of tracking Because on your phone Law enforcement has to go get a search warrant If they say oh We have a suspect Mr. Smith That we think robbed the bank I wonder if Mr. Smith's phone was at the crime scene You can't just dial up Verizon's Hey give me Mr. You've got to go to a judge You've got to lay it out And the judge says Well Okay I see there's probable cause I'm going to allow you the limited Opportunity to see if Mr. Smith was at the bank That's it You can't look at all the other Mr. Smith Doing on his phone

51:51You can see the geo location if you want That fourth amendment protection is critical This flock So the way I understand it Has is not subject to that Certainly the tracking and all that And so the law enforcement benefit And that's why I said There's clearly some benefits But what is the cost You know what I heard? I heard that I was right I heard that I was right To all the conservatives who were my comment section Being mean to me I heard that I was right I used a lot of big words I didn't mean to do that But I am an attorney I've argued the fourth amendment for 30 years And it's very important to me And I don't want your viewers to think that I equivocated I don't like flock For all the reason Because even though I see the benefits From a law enforcement I see the little child that's saved I won't that little child be saved But let me put it to you this way And then we'll stop talking about this We tolerate in America Tens of thousands of deaths Every year

52:51People getting in car crashes We wake up every day It's terrible There's somebody right now Sadly that's dying Somewhere in America In a car crash We could do away with those crashes We could say we are not going to tolerate Anyone dying from a car crash ever again If we just outlawed cars If we went back to horse and buggies If we made everyone walk everywhere Well obviously that's not going to happen People are going to die other ways So we tolerate some bad consequences for a greater purpose And I think that's the rubric Or the framework that I think Float needs to be talked about What are we going to tolerate Why And what aren't we going to tolerate Because we don't let people drive 200 miles an hour Because then you'd have more people dying We let them drop 70 And we're okay with that And I think Has Float got in there Has public policy Conjued Or coalesced around that kind of concept I don't know And that's what I heard The legislature will think about in the future What was that Benjamin Franklin said

53:52He said that Those who would trade Freedom for a little bit of security Deserved neither I agree with that Yes I agree Okay, all right, so let's move on So you are on the board of the UNC systems That correct? Yes Yes All right, so somebody wanted to know Why is the UNC system allowed to hire H1B workers Well, that's a great question I will say this There is no higher purpose for the UNC system Not universities and colleges Than serving North Carolina citizens Not just kids that go in Undergrad But faculty Parents of these students, etc The UNC system board that I serve on Governance the whole public system All 17 schools Chapel Hill State AppState UNCW ECU Charlotte, etc We set policy for these schools

54:53We do not have a formal policy HB1 visas But the concept in how I think in the past It started was Hey, we need a nuclear science professor To go teach at a rural college And we can't find anybody There's nobody qualified We can't pay them enough money They're making more money in a big city Maybe somebody that would qualify Or HB1 visa would be able to come to our school And teach our classroom Okay, that makes some sense If you cannot find a North Carolina Or an American that's already here Leavely and so forth to citizen To come teach Well, I think what's happened Is that The HB1 visa has been used as sort of a Let's just throw it on the HB1 site And it doesn't really matter We're not going to prioritize North Carolinians We're not going to prioritize Americans And some chancellors look at it differently than others I will say since In the state underwent a lot of scrutiny On this earlier this year

55:54The president of our system President Peter Hans Has delivered a pretty strong message to chancellors That HB1 visa Should be a choice of last resort And I agree with that Now are we going to take up a policy on that That I'm just one person on the board I don't speak for the full board And I don't know if we'll do that But my personal view is that That we should prioritize North Carolinians And their interests And Americans and their interests And if we have to Bring someone in to teach us something Or do something we should But one of the advertisements earlier this year For an HB1 spot was for Um A financial analyst Can we not find a North Carolinian to do that? Of course we can So it's a matter of prioritization from the leadership And so I think you'll see a lower level of commitment to HB1 in the future I hope

56:56Ultimately perhaps a policy on that Okay, so another one about the schools Are there any consequences for chancellors Who refuse to eliminate DEI Programs or those who have just simply Renained their DEI programs Absolutely And this is Something that I continue to express frustration over Our board UNC Board of Governors passed a neutrality policy 26 months ago That required administrators and that all administration and everything under their Hospice and their control to divest itself of anything that discriminates policy wise not only in admissions But all in admissions in recruitment and advancement promotions in messaging and Some chancellors in our system have done A really good job Others have not done such a great job

57:59But the policy that we passed Requires once a year on September 1 for the chancellors to follow report now the first year We passed the policy in May or June or April or May they had to report September 1 There was some movement some activity but not really probably to the extent it should have I will say this When all the DEI policies came in in 19 and 20 boy they implemented them overnight And the level of commitment and implementing them the level of funding and and the depth with which they implemented them was vast and swift There has not been that level of Devesting in DEI And that's frustrated me and others on the board But the good news is Comes up to every one of this year there will be new reports and there will be Some problems with some schools that haven't fully done it But we are clearly moving in the right direction and the legislature as you remember just last month just over road a couple of the governor's vetoes on DEI And so all we're trying to do is

59:01And are doing successfully is not hurt anybody And the pro DEI crowds is oh you're hurting me and you're making my life miserable. No, no We're simply trying to make this a merit-based system Where everybody has equal opportunity of everything You don't have an entitlement to anything you've got to earn it And so we want a merit-based system we want equal opportunity we did not want equity we don't want Outcome-based policies outcome-based policies discriminating against people and that's where I think People that because the words diversity equity inclusion are very positive words if you think about you know I want diversity I love equity and inclusion like you know these are good words, but when you put them into an ideology It discriminates against people And that's what they've done culturally if you think diversity in the state of North Carolina I love our natural diversity, right? That's um

1:00:02European it's Native American and it's African right and it came together informed this absolutely gorgeous culture that we get to live in and But when you start talking about you know diversity when it comes to DEI You're talking about destroying that you're talking about incorporating all these other things and making our culture bland And just like everybody else is all over the world. Well, that's not very diverse It surely doesn't highlight diversity of thought right and you know I don't know if we're going to get to this But I want to I want to put one statistic kind of in in here statistics tend to bore people But this is an important one to the to your listeners so during From 21 to 24 in North Carolina When you talk about migration We have domestic migration. We have the people moving from California to North Carolina getting into you hall moving their furniture We have a lot of that We have growth from babies being born So when you look at the total growth of North Carolina from 21 to 24

1:01:0532% of that growth was foreign migration People from other countries Some legal a lot illegal That accounts to 3 to 400,000 people with children Most of a large majority of that population. It's in the database of the statistics that that our government puts out at Chapel Hill 32% in four years that people that moved to North Carolina were from foreign countries That's a staggering statistic And so it's it's not against them and you know you don't want to be xenophobic and say oh my gosh These are subhuman people. They're not they're human that they have the same value of their lives as we have of ours but But they ought to have to go through a do a legal process and we ought to prioritize North Carolinians and Americans in our policy making and what you're saying Is exactly true, but that's a staggering statistic and it coincided in seren- interestingly with

1:02:07With Medicaid expansion because that happened at the same time And so now you're like well less expand Medicaid and I know the the legislature did that and they made a deal with the governor I wasn't a member of the legislature I would not have supported that but they did But they did it at a time where you have more people moving here that are Disproportionately going to be using those benefits and then we wonder why Medicaid costs are skyrocketing Well, it's that's part of the reason right there so So yeah, that's an important topic and I appreciate you bringing that up All right, so I think this is going to be the last one of my slip one more in if if we got enough time but um So a lot of people are concerned that a lot of district attorneys in the state of North Carolina seem to be more concerned with activism than doing their jobs and People want to know you know activist judges and DAs They're giving career criminals smaller sentences parole boards are releasing dangerous offenders who immediately

1:03:13Reaffined What kind of oversight do you know of that the legislature Is currently using to prevent that or planning to And state to kind of curb that Well, I tell you a huge step forward was the law that started that was implemented effective October one of last year Arain as law and it's so tragic Why that law had to be had to come about if it was because of the violent And completely unnecessary death of a beautiful Ukrainian girl on a train in Charlotte murdered On camera for the whole world to see By a man who had been arrested Over and over and over and over again and I will tell you as a practitioner in our court system that law has had a huge impact But you know you ask well, why wasn't that one that looks to begin with why were why are we tolerating this and

1:04:14But your question was specifically about judges and DAs and so let me say this that is that is endemic to the district Because I think if you look at judges in Mecklenburg County and how they go about Looking at cashless bond policies and looking at you know bond hearings and the protocols of sorting through you know Keeping the dangerous people behind bars and letting the non-dangers people have their presumption of innocence and go on They look at that different than I know how our judges here in New Hattabour County look at it and Pender our judges are extremely conscientious about that now On any given year year-ever year you'll have 320 340,000 felony charges in the North Carolina Typically 15% of those are violent. Okay, so 15% as 30 45,000 people charged with murder rape robbery You know Assaults I mean that's a lot of people a lot of felonies

1:05:16Most of the time the system gets it right most of the time you don't see a murder like a renal on TV every day But most of the time isn't good enough for her family and for people that suffer from violent crime and so I think our DAs I think voters need to really question Our DAs and our judges because they're on the ballot voters choose these people by and large voters need to take a more active interest in electing DAs and judges that are gonna pull the law and that are gonna keep dangerous people off the streets And that are gonna punish them when they have an opportunity in front of them when they've been convicted of violent crimes and arena's law is a huge step in the right direction on that But ultimately the voters choose these people to lead them and And just like you see in LA they had a chance to elect Spencer Pratt's gonna clean the streets up and what did they do? They reelected to people that just want the streets to get even worse than they are I don't live in LA and I don't want to say I don't care I do care about a big city in my country

1:06:17But if we're not careful we elect people like that. That's gonna happen here and and so voters need to pay attention I hope that does not happen here Okay, so this is gonna be the last one but somebody apparently a fan of yours wanted to know what does it mean to be a conservative in 2026? Not what is it against but what is it for? This gets waking up What does it mean to be a conservative? I'll tell you first what it's always meant and then I'll tell you what I think it means today could kind of Because it means more today to me anyway. It's always meant stemming the growth of government Keeping taxes low so that people can keep more their money because ultimately the government forgets that it's not their money It's your money you earn it and then you got to pay part of it to roads and cops and fire departments and stuff

1:07:18And we all understand that but over time it's just gotten worse and worse and worse Being a conservative is being a steward of all that money and keeping those tax policies so that people can live their lives and enjoy it It's also about protecting the sanctity of life Not just with that birth but throughout life But today I also think it means America first and North Carolina first and things like oh, what does that mean? well We are an indispensable nation and we do have a unique role in history and a unique role around the world but but with that Over the last few decades has come a lot of arrogance and hubris where we think we can be everything to everybody If you had asked me this question in the late mid-90s late 90s early 2000s We're gonna export democracy to the Middle East. We're gonna You know, we're gonna take it over there and the Iraqi people are gonna vote on the first Tuesday of November just like us That was pretty arrogant aspiration now. It was it was aspirational. It hasn't worked out. Look where that got us

1:08:25We've got to focus on Americans first and in North Carolina we have to focus on North Carolina and first and so what does it mean to be a conservative? pushing back and repealing globalist policies resisting and pushing back against mass migration We have a large refugee resettlement program all over North Carolina. Those are federal policies There's not a lot we can do about it, but we can complain about them We should not be incentivizing Middle Eastern studies programs and things like that in our in our Institutions of higher ed unless it benefits North Carolina. I don't really see how it benefits North Carolina personally And so to me that's what it means to be a conservative to speak up and out about these things so that we can get back to to what made this country what it is and And so I hope that answered the question. I think about this all the time because I was part of that regular Republican party back then and I look back on some of his policies and I'm appalled I'm appalled at what we let happen

1:09:27I'm appalled that we out of our benevolence We we took a Somali nation In my graded it to Minnesota and they're stealing money from us And and people say oh well, that's a that's a terrible thing to say well. It's a true thing. That's happening And every day when you write your taxes on April 15th a large part of that money is going to a group of people Not just in Minnesota, but elsewhere that don't share your values that don't earn money and pay taxes And they're taking your money if that was given to an American in the mountains that suffer from Helene I'd give them 10 times that if I could afford it I don't want to give it to a foreign nation that doesn't share my country's values To me, that's what it means to be a conservative to that Never