Wing & Tail Outdoors - NJ Hunting Reg Issues ft. Brian Melvin

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2:04What's up everyone? Welcome to the Wing and Tail Outdoors podcast, your Northeast destination for hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation. I'm Chris, your host and on this show, we break down the science, strategy and real world experience behind life in the woods and on the water. The goal is simple. To educate and empower the outdoor community to make informed, responsible decisions in the field. So grab your gear, tune in and let's get after it and always remember. Success is just a commitment away. What's up guys? Welcome back to the show. I am for whatever reason in a great mood today. Spring seems to be trying to fight its way through. We've had some warmer days over the last couple weeks. Sun's been shining, still a little chilly, still a little windy, but overall it is starting to peak its way through. But more importantly for me anyway, for the first time in what seems like forever, my hands are functioning great.

3:04Because I'm recovering so, so well from the procedure that I had or the surgery. It went very, very well. Again, they worked on my left hand and they gave me a shot in the right. And by the time I woke up, my right hand felt practically normal. And my left hand took a little while for the numbing, you know, to wear off and whatnot. But after about two days since then I've been able to use my hands, no numbness, no whatever. I haven't really been gripping anything. I can't lift anything heavy for four weeks. And then consider shooting above heavy lifting. So I'm not going to be shooting for another three weeks as of today. But that's okay. Everything went well, recovering well. In a week I'll have the stitches removed and then I'll have, you know, a little bit more to do. But thank God everything went great and we are looking forward, hoping that the injection they gave me in the right hand last at least through the season. But we'll see. I got more important things to worry about moving forward over the next couple weeks because I got some big news.

4:05You guys know that my wife and I moved out to Pennsylvania a couple years ago. But what I maybe didn't share with everybody is we kind of moved away from family. We came out. We love where we live. It's beautiful. It's quiet. We're in the mountains essentially. But having a newborn, it's been a little tough, you know. So my wife and I have made a decision that we are going to be moving back to Jersey a little bit closer to family where our daughter can grow with her nieces and spend a little time with everybody and, you know, get to know the family and stuff. So looking forward to the 2026 season. I started to take a look at the regs for Jersey again because there's been, you know, you never know. You always want to brush up on the regs of the place where you're going to go. And very quickly I realized how crazy and how confusing and how convoluted the New Jersey regulations are and how if you don't read them carefully, you could find yourself technically poaching even though you don't intend to or you don't mean to.

5:06So for this week's conversation, I sat down with Timberlife outdoors Brian Melvin to kind of discuss how no other way to put it, how crazy the New Jersey regulations are. Again, they're very confusing. They're expansive. They don't and most importantly, they don't seem to prioritize herd health either for now or the future, which is very, very frustrating. And we get into it in this, in this episode, I'll be honest, this conversation is kind of half exposing the issues, half and in that half kind of giving our opinions and what we think about it. But the other half of this is kind of discussing some possible solutions. And if somebody were to wave the magic wand and give us control of the New Jersey regs, maybe some of the things that we would consider or that we would look into to make the hunting a little bit better. Also reach the goals of the New Jersey fish and wildlife. And effectively do that while also prioritizing the health of the herd for both we talked about deer, we talked about bear, we talked about turkey and fes and duck, we kind of went through the whole gamut of the New Jersey thing.

6:12So I really enjoyed the conversation. If you guys are in a state where things seem kind of backwards or crazy. This is a conversation for you. And if you guys are New Jersey residents, maybe tune in. And at the end of this episode, I kind of, I kind of, I kind of leave the door open and ask anyone who is interested in possibly trying to get together create a group of some sort and see if we can make some change for the better in Jersey. We left our information there and I think that would be great. So if you guys are interested and you make it to the end of the episode and it's something that you guys are passionate about as well. We would love to hear from you, hear your thoughts. Or if you disagree, we'd love to hear from you about that as well. We're interested in hearing other perspectives. And maybe there's a perspective we didn't think of. So yeah. So next up, I was fortunate enough to receive my cario literally the day I got home from surgery. It actually got delivered while I was sitting on the operating table, which is kind of ironic, but it was waiting for me on the porch when I got home.

7:12And I filmed an unboxing video, but it seems that footage has been lost. I accidentally formatted the wrong card and that went by by. So instead, when I get the bowl all set up, which is going to be soon, I plan on having it set up well before I'm able to shoot. I'm going to I guess instead film a video of my setup and why I did what I did and all that good stuff. So and the cool thing is I'm setting it up on what I think the right setup is with stabilizers and all that good stuff. But then I'm going to get to shoot it later on and see how that kind of stacks up to what it's supposed to be. So I can kind of do it before and after video. If there's some stuff there, that's worth noting if not then, you know, what's the point. But as far as accessories go, I need to give a big shout out to Garmin real quick. And before I do, I want to make it clear that I am not sponsored by them. I'm not partnered by them. I do not get anything from them for free. Nothing like that at all. But you guys know that I love my Garmin zero site. I have the zero A1 Pro. Thing is phenomenal. I absolutely love it. But at the beginning of last season, one of the adjustment knobs stopped catching the gears either stripped or whatever the case is.

8:23And it stopped working. And I instead of being able to micro adjust, I had to do it manually. So I was going to wait till the end of season to do it. And then everything, you know, end up happening. So I waited until I don't know a few weeks ago, I gave Garmin a call. Long story short, they don't offer a replacement part for that adjustment knob. And my Garmin was beyond its warranty. But Garmin still essentially gave me a replacement. No charge at all whatsoever. Just have to send in the old one. They send me a new one. That is on its way. And once that comes in, and I'm waiting on the R7 to come into the shop, which hopefully happens soon. Once I get those two things in, I'll be able to set the bow up center shot and all that good stuff. And once I can shoot, I can tune last but not least on the last episode I had mentioned. I was looking for some feedback on how I like to do the partner, the partner readings essentially. And I haven't really heard too much feedback on that. I'm looking to see if you guys would prefer I read them all real quick in the beginning. Or if I have little ads run in the middle of the podcast right now, I have the ability to choose which one I want to tailor it to you guys. But since I haven't heard anything yet for now, I'm going to go ahead and read them real quick. And we'll get into today's show.

9:38The nested tree stands system tooth of the arrow broad heads. You can use code UT 10 for both of those to save yourself 10% at checkout vitalize seed integrated habitat solutions truth sticks custom arrows fire knock a three archery custom strings rack getter sense hunt arsenal silver birch archery shop in Milford, Pennsylvania. And hunters gallery in Hamlin, Pennsylvania, I want thank you guys for supporting the podcast. Thank you for all the help that you've offered me throughout my journey. And if you guys are interested in checking out any of those things we'd appreciate it. It head on down all the way to the bottom. The discount codes are down there. The links are down there. The whole thing is there. I've kept your time enough guys. I hope you enjoyed today's show. And until next week. Remember success is just a commitment away. And now Brian Melvin. I was going on guys. I'm back here today with Brian Melvin joining us today on the wing and tail podcast. How are you doing today, buddy? Good, buddy. Glad to be back. Yeah, man.

10:40I'm excited because this this episode is going to be a little bit different. We kind of started doing it off air and we said we got to just hit record, you know, so. But listeners haven't actually heard this yet. So I'm just going to share with them now for the first time. I'm going to be moving back to Jersey and you guys know that. So I've been looking into some New Jersey regulations again and just trying to brush up and see what see what I'm getting into. And as I'm trying to read these regulations, they're just more and more frustrating. And then you scratch away at the surface from these, you know, just the rules and the regs and whatever. And you start to dive into herd management, the goals of the DNR or whatever they call it in Jersey. And you start to realize that things are kind of out of whack and things are kind of crazy. And I kind of wanted to have I told you off air. I kind of wanted to have an unhinged episode about this. Like I'm kind of pretty fired up. But I think we'd better off having a little conversation instead and, you know, trying to be productive instead of explosive. So that's what we're here to talk about today, man. So real quick for the listeners who missed all the other episodes we have with you. Can you just give a brief intro on who you are and.

11:47Sure. Yeah. Brian Melvin here. I'm with Timberlife outdoors. We're a brand YouTube channel that's based on New Jersey, just doing, you know, the everyday Joe, men and women that are hunting and in their downtime, trying to put up some great content of stuff that Jersey has available. Also doing some stuff out of state, but mostly in Jersey. And just weighing in it and having a blast with it. That's awesome. And you've been putting out some some great stuff. I know you just had a couple of videos released recently. I think you had a bear a bear hunt. And I think I don't know if it's released yet or if it will be released by the time this comes up, you have a deer hunt coming out soon as well. Pretty soon. Yep. Yeah. So from what what what I've seen from that so far, it's it's sweet, man. Thanks buddy. Yeah, absolutely. So you guys got you guys got to check it out. I will say I will say this. I don't know anyone else who has the angles that you offer and have on your shots. You have like two or three angles on you in the tree. You have your main camera. You have like five cameras set up to catch like the shot spot, you know what I mean. So it's really impressive. And it's and it's cool because you get to see it from a different perspective also, you know, appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. So I don't even know. I don't even know where to start with all this. I mean, you know, it's a lot to ingest.

13:00What you were saying, I think the best that's the kind of the easy way to segue into this is that comparing it to like PA in New York New Jersey has regulations that you almost need a PhD to sift through. They don't make anything really streamlined. I can't say I know they're reasoning behind all of it, but I know we do know that some of it is money based for sure. That's just tipping on the let's say the turkey regulations. It's more probably one of the only states in the country that you could if the if the tags are available. Like 24 birds or 22 birds or whatever it is, which is just mind boggling. Here, obviously every session or every zone is different, but they have it complicated down to individual three different seasons in a season, friends zones permits that are needed for that. And then people talk about a money grab or that insurance is insurance premiums are pushing you for them to kill all kinds of beer. But what it boils down to is that there is an insane amount of regulations when it could be relatively more streamlined like a lot of other states.

14:01And I think that's kind of like the segue into different species, right? So you have some bear regulations that don't really make sense to a lot of people. You have some deer regulations that make sense if you're on a money grab, if like that's your focus, then we understand what's happening. But if you're actually looking to build up a resource, none of these make sense. And turkey is the same way. That's just a straight money grab. Now they actually made like we've talked about they've actually made a positive move, canceling the fall season, which was in protection of that resource, which is very, very happy to see that where they've shut that season down because the numbers have been dropping throughout the state. But the other ones that we can dive into, I think we should just go by maybe species by species and kind of break down what our gripes are or what we're seeing and then kind of assume what the motivations are, right? We're not going to have the exact answers and maybe other people that watch us maybe reach out to Chris and send some questions or if you have any information, that'd be great. But I think that's kind of kind of our segue into where we want to go with this. Yeah, I mean, we just start with deer, you know, I feel like I feel like I feel like deer is like that one thing that if you're a hunter, most people are hunting here, right?

15:07Then people might drop into duck hunting or whatever, you know, so when it comes to deer, there are a lot of things that I feel like are crazy, starting with the habitat first and foremost. Honestly, I've seen them doing burns before, like down down the pine barons, I've seen them do burns, you know, over in places that are closer, like residential areas or whatever, I see them doing burns. So I see them with the ability to do things, but I can't tell you I've ever seen a single type of land management effort in the wildlife management areas that I'm hunting or that I've hunted in my life or the resident or the municipal areas or what not, you know what I mean? You walk through a state game land on this state and you may find a couple pockets of thickets here and there that you can literally see for miles, you could shoot for miles. And it's that's nowhere for for an animal to live. You know, so I don't know what it's like in the places where you've hunted before, but that habitat spans also to the turkey problem and the bear problem, the reason why we don't have quail anymore.

16:07Yeah, you know, you're 100% right, it's pretty minimal compared to other states, like you said, we do a lot of dog training down South Jersey, so like call yours mills and ass and pink some of those big WMAs, they burn and it definitely helps, you know, bring back a lot of that that new growth and I see it every, I think they burn almost every single year there. And it's beautiful, you know, it really controls a lot of that underbrush comes back nice grasses and all kinds of stuff for the upland birds. But up here in the north, I don't see anything like there's been years where like black river Clinton stuff like that outside of the small sections that are used for any kind of ag if they're going to print. I mean, if they're going to plant corn or whatever everything else is left alone, they'll touch it. They might cut some rose in for people to walk that's kind of the extent of what I've seen. Yeah, agreed. And I mean, I don't know, I don't know if I have this wrong, but it's my understanding that the state leases out those crop fields or whatever to farmers and whatnot. That's what I know. So, you know, we're talking about a money grab. You know, so let's let's talk about what we mean about that money grab. Right. We were just we were just talking about this off air and it took me what 10 minutes for me to wrap my mind around this.

17:13Right. There are, let's see, fall bow, permit bow, winter bow, muzzle loader permit, permit shotgun, six day fire on. Okay. So that's what six seasons six seasons. Two no six because you can shoot two bucks during six days. So that's your seven. Okay. So ladies and gentlemen, everything that I just riddled off is a $30 tag as a state resident, which is honestly it's not expensive. Each individual tag is a bad, right. But the fact that you have to buy a license for each season that you want to hunt is preposterous. Then they have your permit licenses, right. So once permit bow is over for the rest of the year, any zone that you want to hunt in, you have to buy a antlerless tag for the permission to hunt there. And the ability to shoot a doe. And then you can shoot a buck. Okay. Per zone. And the state is broken into how many how many zones? Yeah, I don't even know it's 50. I mean, I'm looking at these numbers here. 65 is the biggest number I see so far. Okay. Yeah, there you go. There you go.

18:13Yeah. 65 zones. So I'm not saying I'm not saying anybody's bouncing around trying to hunt in 65 zones. And I would venture to guess that there's a couple zones on here where there isn't even anywhere to go hunting. Which is hilarious in itself as in what I mean by that is access, you know, access to land or whatever. Right, right. So if you want to so and for all those mind you, you're not paying for the ability to buy it to be able to shoot another buck and all of those zones as well. You get one buck per those six seasons except for six day shotgun, right. So if I want to enjoy the sport of hunting in New Jersey as a New Jersey resident. I have to pay almost double what I would have to go and pay to hunt in my neighboring states as an out of state resident and get the exact same privileges. So I would say yes, privileges, but maybe different bag limits because that's probably the only yes positive to the concept of what they're saying. Some regulations sets in New Jersey. We have unlimited antler lists and the fact now I don't think this is a positive thing.

19:15It's a detriment to the resource, but if you buy all those tags like we were saying before you can shoot seven bucks in one year of hunting from fall to winter. And you can and if you're in an antler lists area that has unlimited dose, you can shoot every day the world gets a little weirder and a lot more awesome. Cool stuff daily takes a look at everything from mining and space to the latest in the fight against cancer to how AI is basically changing everything. It's all the cool stuff you didn't know you need it to know. Join us for cool stuff daily as we take a quick look at science, tech and the wait what stories that make you sound way smarter at dinner. Subscribe to cool stuff daily now because the future is happening fast and it's way too fun to miss. There's no limit like you just keep shooting right so you can shoot a hundred deer and keep going. But the seven bucks is like the big thing that everyone talks about some guys like that's great what drives me crazy is when I have a conversation.

20:18And I let me preface this by saying I don't pre-gudge pre-gudge anybody for what they shoot you want to shoot a spike you want to shoot whatever you want to shoot. I'm all with you call me I help you drag it out where you lose me is when you're shooting those spikes and you're shooting your sixes and you're shooting your two year old deer. And then you're the same guy that says well we never see any good dear well buddy come on we got to have a conversation here so that's where you lose me if you want to shoot that and you're happy with that I'm all with you I'm all for it but the resource we all know and states that do it right have better deer. It's been proven if you're able to shoot seven bucks in a year across the board not everybody does it you're not going to manage the buck quality properly period that's just a fact and some guys are like I got seven tags I got a film. Okay again you paid the money I understand it to a point I don't agree with it because I have the seven tags I don't fill them again it's up to you but I think that's where we're missing in the management aspect of it and I've had this conversation many times and many people I would prefer two buck tags use them as flex tags use them across all seasons however you want.

21:26Using what a bow use them all would a bow use them all what a gun use one one about however but you get two tags you're done if you need to shoot more than two bucks and still have your antler lists unlimited quality I would love to have that conversation tell me why you need to shoot more in two bucks and still be able to fill your freezer or fill 10 people's freezers with unlimited analyst I'm down anyone can not want to have a conversation with me I would love to yeah that's where that's where not and all that all that makes perfect sense I love the idea of two buck tags as an option I think that's great. And I understand the unlimited deer I mean there are let me see we're talking about bow only in both season there are one to more than 20 zones where you can see I'm not counting them all there more than 20 zones where you can shoot five or more deer and fall below alone right unlimited or I'm sorry I'm atler less and then still one buck for the for the state right here you can't shoot okay there are one two sets of the

22:26of regulations where you can shoot unlimited antler list deer and that encompasses about 15 different zones in the state right so what this tells me by reading the regulations is these are the zones that are overpopulated at least that's what I hope there's the reason for allowing this amount of deer they're giving you this many tags to go and shoot deer and some people probably do there are probably people who shoot a deer and everybody in their family gets me or they donate it that's awesome like no problem with that whatsoever yeah my my gripe with it is there's no incentive to shoot doe if that is not something you enjoy doing we all know people who go in the woods and all they want to do is they want to shoot a buck and if they don't shoot a buck they're not shooting anything you know my dad's one of them my dad you know don't get me wrong he'll shoot a doe but if it's too cold or if it's too late or whatever he's not going to he's not going to shoot a doe right but in the same exact situation with a buck he would take that shot and we'd be tracking in the dark or whatever the case may be so they they have all these different seasons they claim because they want they they need help with the deer population and they have all these unlimited doe areas to help with the population but they have no incentive to continue to shoot doe

23:36so if you're only shooting one buck right and even if you shoot two doe or whatever there's no reason to continue shooting deer and reducing that population especially if a lot of those unlimited antlers I'm looking at it now for bow so zone eight and zone 36 where I do a lot of hunting it's unlimited antler lists for fall bow permit bow and winter bow and I'm looking at firearms real quick permit shm also loader unlimited antler lists permit shotgun is unlimited antler lists and six day firearm is my two antler deer so in those two zones if I'm reading this correctly which is yep eight and where's eight and eights right there you can shoot I could shoot those seven buck and never touch a doe outside of urnabok I have no reason to shoot about doe outside of urnabok and I still get seven deer what's that's that's what I'm saying like I'm okay zone 36 is on that list of did you say you hunt zone 36 yes okay so zone 36 if I'm not mistaken encompasses Bergen County Essex County a little bit of Morris County possibly I don't I'm just looking at the map here yeah the Morris County side okay fine Bergen County New Jersey right for just for the listeners who are in the

24:50don't know used to be it is first off it is the the first county right over the bridge from the from New York City so it's the first county that you enter when you come over the George Washington bridge okay it is extremely developed in places there are more houses than there are trees where are you supposed to find a place to hunt in Bergen County and the same thing goes for Essex County at least a place that I know C caucus Jersey City pretty limited you know you know what I mean so yeah it's great look at all this red on the map and and all these places where you could shoot deer but you start to break it down until you get the South Jersey I'm sure South Jersey is a little bit different it gets a little bit more spaced out but where they have all of these unlimited zones are crazy deer numbers or whatever there are so many places that you can't hunt yes not and I wouldn't say you can't hunt because it's not safe or you physically can either the towns or the state are willing to open these different parks or recreation areas for a weekend hunt or a month hunt. So you get it you're absolutely right at the access is limited in a lot of those places the only catch to it is that's where you

25:54where you find a lot of these like town management programs and that's that's kind of big in those town management is these unlimited antlers quotas if you will inside of those town management programs that every town's a little different I'm not going to pretend to know them I've been in a few of them but it still boils down to now a lot of those programs you have regardless of earn a buck you still have to shoot maybe a doe or two before you can shoot a buck in that program or however they do it everyone's a little different which is good um but it still doesn't if I mean again I've been in a situation where you can see 20 doves in a night and you pop one and now you get your buck tag and that's great but like you said there's no incentive to continue to shoot those throughout the season because I have six more tags that I can use well again a lot of those places are bow only and that gets or opens up a whole other conversation of what you can use your bow with in regards to gun tags which we can get it to later because there's only we're gonna get there what we're gonna get there but yeah like the big thing like you said is there's no incentive

26:55to really touch that unlimited antler list quota or regulation set because you got seven tags with with that you could shoot bucks if you're only looking at bow you have one two three four five tags with the bow because you can't wish you can't use bow during shotgun you can't use bow during permit shotgun or muzzle loader permit muzzle loader you can use a bow during six day yeah you can take two bucks with your bow during six day okay so that gives you your two extra after your bow seasons so you get five bow tags and then two more only firearms season tags if you will so again it's the incentive like you said is a big part of it if you don't have an incentive to continue shooting those those why is anybody gonna do it now if people had to pay for extra tags I mean I don't know I that opens a thing but I think it wouldn't be a bad idea and I'm probably shooting myself in the foot a little bit here but if the deal was really to manage the herd you probably should have to shoot a doe per buck at the middle yeah yeah I'll 100% right and if they're

27:56and since we're on the topic of gun season for a hot second I don't understand why you can't shoot a doe during six day shotgun I don't understand why that's a thing right it's never been allowed there used to be doe there used to be doe days yeah yeah they used to be the specific days where you can go out and hunt but but my thing is if the if the state is concerned about the overpopulation right and you know a majority of hunters in most states are gun hunters why are you not allowed like why wouldn't they have why wouldn't they want people shooting doe well I think you are going to be out hunting with gun well permit like permit chocolate there's no only days so you're talking about the season in like late January into February no November for the record guys the fact that we're like no hold on let me check that in a second like this is literally what what this is exactly what the issue like if you look at that that that regulation set that we're looking at for the firearms for permit and for permit shotgun if you look it says antlerless only like look look at regulation set eight which is in the red which again is a handful of zones you'll see

28:59antlerless only those are your don't miss shotgun permit shotgun or permit muzzleloader yeah okay I see those are your don't miss so they still have the doe days but yeah there's I don't understand why there's doe only days and there's buck only days in regards to six day maybe that's a history thing really don't that doesn't really bother me as much but I think six days a big tradition in New Jersey and a lot of people go out and I think people would probably want to shoot maybe more dose but I mean all the pictures we see are the orange army that's in their bus that have you know 27 six little six pointers that are lined up in front of them again God bless it you had a great day driving's not necessarily my style but it's legal so I support anybody that doesn't yeah let me say that right so I'm gonna I'm gonna paint a picture right and I'm gonna preface this by saying if it's legal I don't care do whatever you want right as long if it's legal I don't care like the issue here isn't the people following the rules no whether I agree with those rules or not the issue is the rules in general so it's legal like whatever okay great mom so so let's say

30:00somebody is out baiting okay they have a bait spot they're hanging out doing their thing right and it's two days left in the in the in the fall bow season a deer walks by they pass three times during fall bow because it wasn't it wasn't what they were looking for last day of the season that that buck walks by and they go well I don't want to burn a tag right they shoot that buck right knowing that the next season is literally the next day and you're going to get a brand new buck tag the following day 100% you know so again the issue isn't the people who are choosing to take that shot it's legal you want it you know do you think but if you only had two bucks a year you think if it was earn a buck you know if you had to earn a buck in every season before you were able to shoot a buck or if you know let's say you shot three doe in fall you know three doe in fall bow that gave you three other buck tags and in three other seasons of your choice whatever you know what I mean if that was the case I think people would be a little bit more selective and I'm not saying selective because I'm again I'm not criticizing what people are shooting no I'm saying by being

31:01selective it's going to allow the natural age structure to kind of begin to take over totally you know it only takes it only takes one year for your two year olds to become three year olds and we all know the three year old start to get a little bit smarter they're not the smartest year in the woods but if you can get a deer to three years old you're gonna get something for you're gonna get something five yeah you know and if you just like a couple years ago okay when I was still living in Jersey they were doing a they did a survey they were asking all about these different things what do you how many deer did you see what do you think about the quality of deer you saw what would you feel about combining different regulations because things are a little crazy right and one of the big things was antler restrictions yes I don't know any one I spoke to that was against antler restrictions right not one person that I spoke to was against them nope and it is now been three years since that survey went out and I don't again I haven't lived here I haven't lived there but I don't I don't believe anything now it's not here come back from now it's right here look we're looking at the regulations right now there's nothing on it there's nothing here I haven't heard anything there's nothing on here on points I know there's one spot like high point park or

32:05something like that that has a hunt up there and there's a point restriction up there unfortunately New Jersey what a boils down to is New Jersey does not see deer as a resource right they see him as a problem that's what a boils down to I mean you got you got a state like Iowa and I know I've mentioned that a couple times but like their deer hunting is a huge resource for them and they just set it up that that resource is managed incredibly and they do so and it works and that's why it's a destination now that that being said we have incredible deer in Jersey we have the ability to have fantastic deer I'm not going to say they're the same quality or size necessarily of Iowa right those Midwest bucks are right they're just got genetic lines but there's still 180's and 200's being shot in New Jersey yes I said there's 200 inches that are being shot in New Jersey a lot of them won't see the daylight because the people don't want to press but they 100 percent get shot in New Jersey but a lot more better deer would be shot if we managed it a little bit differently for sure 100 percent man and I'm glad you brought up Iowa because I was kind of about to go there

33:08like okay so I'm gonna I'm going to give credit where credit is due I heard a lot of these stats on the white tail podcast with Jake Hofer a couple weeks ago they posted something it was like two-part question like Lee and Tiffany were part of it so I think Skip Sly was part of it maybe so I'm not claiming all of this stuff as my own okay but one of the big things that they said and it made a lot of sense was let me get the numbers right Iowa I think is 5% public land Evan percent timber and they have some of the and they have the smallest deer herd of all the western states and yet there and and it's and it's they're getting timbered more and more and and they're the things that deer need to be you know greater it's are slowly dwindling access is terrible but you take a state that doesn't have enough timber doesn't have enough places for you to go and hunt because and literally sells to the highest bidder right to public live at land owners and tags and all this stuff and they still have the caliber deer and you still have people flooding

34:09to their state year after year because of how great it is when honestly there I say it shouldn't be right you know and we're and then you and then you look at a state like ours Pennsylvania is on its way they've made some changes over the last couple decades there were some gamers last year come at a Pennsylvania 100% 100% but what was the big thing that happened in PA they made a three point they made a three point on one side point and the restriction right that was the number one thing and then they they've been you know messing around with the seasons and whatnot but what frustrates me is yeah you think of Jersey you think of a metropolitan area there's not a whole lot of stuff there's all you see is buildings right but you get up to northern Jersey central Jersey western Jersey south Jersey it is still the garden state it is still yeah a great like I know there I say great state it's a beautiful state in places right we have the resources to be able to sustain a healthy herd and a better herd yes while also still achieving the goals that the state is looking for and what frustrates me is we're willing to talk about it and make change but everybody else

35:11whether you're their anti hunter non hunter or state legislature it's almost like it always always always falls on deaf ears always and it's frustrating because all of these animal things everyone knows this right all the all the programs that that go out to like you know save animals and the health animals and distress that all comes from us right that all comes from us you know what it means so like if you're losing hunters because the quality is going to shit yeah and you're messing with the seasons and you're putting things in seasons where they don't belong which I'm sure is going to come up here in a little bit but you start doing all these things you're going to turn people off now when you start turning people off for the quote bad regulations a lot of times the two people that are going to stay are the people that absolutely love the sport so much that you're never going to turn them off or the people who are going to take advantage of every loophole possible yeah you know what I mean it's true it's like I don't know yeah it's extremely frustrating to know that we have the ability to be great we do and we're literally throwing in the trash we really do it's there it's right there it's just again like you said it falls on deaf ears I've had this

36:13conversation multiple times with people and I've never had a hunter really disagree with me I've had some kind of old-timers that are like no you know we should be able to shoot everything I'm like it's not about being able to shoot everything if you want to shoot if you're hunting an area that has a limit of those go kill 60 dear year that's not what I'm talking about you know I'm talking about do you need to shoot seven bucks that's an argument that's a conversation to be had maybe for another day or I would love to have someone on here you know that you could find that really thinks that's a good idea and why I would love to hear that kind of kick that around that be great because genuinely I just want to know why someone would need that right yeah why do you need seven bucks are you finding what I would consider seven quality bucks everyone's different and what they consider again that's where I'm thinking if you're shooting you know one good buck and six spikes maybe those six can be those maybe maybe I'm wrong but that's a great conversation but yeah I know I think it falls on deaf ears I think the motivation is not there to manage the resource properly just like you said yeah so I mean we've talked about maybe just two flex tags using when you want them and

37:16that's that we've talked about urna buck is there anything else is there anything else that you could think of that maybe we could recommend suggestion or that we would do like if if somebody wave their magic one is a Brian you are now in charge honestly the urna buck I have no problem with I really think it's a great idea to force up people that are you know pattern a deer over the summer and they want to get on that big buck I'm that guy I know I am I'm out opening warning trying to get a dough down so I can go after my target buck that's like totally and it forces you to shoot that dough so that works however as soon as that dough is down I don't have any motivation then to shoot another dough like you said so if I did have to shoot more deer for x reasons if I only had two flex tags for bucks I'm thinking about my next shot I'm thinking about what bucks walking by me you know like like you said hey you know fall bucks season fall both seasons in and tomorrow starts permit but I only have two tags for the whole season maybe I'm not going to shoot that by other bucks so yeah I am a I think that urna buck and that two flex tags keep the dough regulations

38:18as they are I don't think they need to be changed if you have those flex flex tags because if you shoot in the seven bucks now and you're going to tell me because you need the seven bucks for a meat okay I didn't change anything by giving you two flex tags on unlimited dose you still can go get your dose go get your meat I didn't take anything away from you but now our quality of our bucks are going to get a little bigger in the next two years or better in the next two years because we left something yeah so yeah it's it it doesn't it doesn't take long and I say this because I've experienced it on a 130 acre piece in New York our family farm okay when we first bought the property literally the season before I'm pretty sure we bought it in the winter right so like that season people had been hunting it and they had been hunting it for years and years and years and years and they were a hunting club that it was legal it was getting shot when we came on to the property there wasn't a whole lot right here we are five years later we have a shooter every year right you know right now I mean we're not we're not you know we're not talking five six seven year old deer right now our goal is three is three year olds if we could get a bunch of

39:21deer to three yeah we have a selection of three year olds and now we can say okay time to bump at the four yeah and then when there's a when you're seeing a decent amount of fours you can say okay time to bump at the five totally so you don't you don't have to limit you don't have to ruin the hunting experience now and say this is where it stops you know right now you can't shoot anything under a blah blah blah you know what I mean but right it doesn't take long for the effects to take over because deer like deer like any population grows exponentially so if you give it a little time to breathe it's not going to take a whole lot of time to square itself off agreed oh so here's what here's my fear man as things get a little worse in Jersey as far as deer numbers or people getting you know discuss it or you know not bringing their kids into hunting or whatever the case may be you know filling the blank here the state is going to start offering more things that the people who are still hunting want to get them to continue hunting I've heard absurdities as like you should let me hunt with whatever I want all year like rifle bow anytime of the year

40:24early season late season that's dangerous it is dangerous yeah but it's not dangerous for the people no it's not dangerous because gun hunters are in the woods proud a little almost year round you just a slippery slope exactly you know and we've already seen it now this is my personal opinion if you want to share yours go ahead we've already seen it with the crossbows yeah and in Jersey it's it's almost become the new norm because they've been legal for so long already I have no issue with people who are legally using a crossbow right I don't I have one sitting in my closet I say this all the time the deer behind me I shot that with a crossbow eight years ago I actually don't appreciate it all that much because of now fast forwarding fast forward to where I am now and as deep as I am into my compound stuff and I'm like man I shot that with a crossbow yeah you know what I mean but again that's just that's my own personal thing but I will say without a doubt I'm not going to sugarcoat it I don't think crossbows belong in a full regular archery season yep I don't I agree why multiple reasons but I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go first and then I

41:30I'm I'm right there with you all your things just like you said I'm not against crossbows I think there's a place for them I think they're great for kids to get started I think they're maybe great for a person that maybe needs that has a medical condition I'm also not necessarily against them as a whole for anybody but they don't necessarily belong in archery season I think they should be in a gun season and I have no problem with that and I have the conversation everybody well you know they used to say that about you know when they go from recurs to compounds comparing a compound to a crossbow is not a fair conversation because I can I can set my compound I can set my set a crossbow I do not own one I could set one up on a tripod right now and I could have my three year old shoot that I'm sorry I could take a crossbow set it up on a tripod and have my three year old shoot that crossbow and be hitting a target I know within about 20 minutes no problem if I hand it on my compound it's gonna get broken because it's getting dropped but it's not happening right there's nothing happening so comparing them is not the same now I understand there's a jump between traditional to compound I agree with that but the crossbow just

42:34is not what I consider archery again I'm all for someone being able to get in the woods with whatever means they can but I don't believe it belongs in full archery season I think it should be in gun seasons my son states do that I think it's great but New Jersey is going the way of the crossbow without a doubt I was working a big sale at a big gun big a big sports shop this past weekend out of hundreds of people that came through the door I will say 90% of the people that came over to the archery section looked at only crossbows almost nobody talked about the compounds that are on the wall and it was people like oh I'm you know I I want to get into archery and they picked up a crossbow like okay like let's just talk about this so again and this this little story I'm going to tell real quick I was helping out with some some what do you call it licensing stuff for people like the licensing days where you take the kids out you get the license helping out it was great I had a father come up with his son with his crossbow take the test past great as we're walking off the line and New Jersey this is allowed they pass the test they walk off the line he goes hey

43:36whatever his name was just calm Johnny Johnny you passed now we can go home and you can hunt with your compound so it wasn't as me being a father now this was before I was a father that killed me like you're teaching to kid the wrong way that's the shortcut and also he didn't pass with a compound he shouldn't be on a one of compound I don't know like you said I'm not against like just like you said I'm not against crossbows I think there's a place for them I think they need to be managed a little bit differently but I think I they're not going away and I think they're going to be opened up even more I think it's just it's going to it's going to be part of the norm now which is again we'll see how that goes unfortunately in a lot of areas that I hunt they make a lot of people have access to shooting deer that probably shouldn't be shooting deer when I mean by that as Pete like poachers it's the poachers tool like guys have them in the back of their trucks landscapers have them blah blah blah we lose dozens of deer every year to them a lot of our target bucks get popped in the summer the first week of the season for whatever reason right but there's a there's a place for them I think I don't necessarily think they belong in our tree season you tell me you're going you're going to do our tree it's our tree you tell me you're going crossbow hunting

44:40awesome it I'll come film you I will drag that deer out I'm not against it but there is a difference that's all yeah hundred percent yeah I mean the big joke going around that it's a it's a it's a bow gun right but it's kind of it's kind of true right it's got a scope it's got a trigger right now don't get me wrong I use the garment right so I have a little bit of a leg up on top of you know other compound bow archers right but it's not a scope it's not you know what I mean it's not so my issue my issue is is multifaceted okay first I agree with everything you said I don't think it's archery and I agree the comparison between traditional and compound cannot be compared to the relationship from compounds crossbow when you when you shoot a traditional bow you start at zero weight you pull it back to max weight right so go all the way to hundred percent there's no let off I understand that right yeah there's usually less attachments there's less things to aim most guys do it instinctually or with a prep up method very impressive that's very impressive right I won't

45:41even attempt it at least not right now you know well you shoot a compound you still got to pull it back yep you still got to hold it at full draw yep you still have to aim yep you still have to make the shot yep you still have to compose yourself you can't put it on a tripod you can't like you the list goes on the leg up I would say from traditional to compound is the let off and the cams that allow you to draw the bow easier change the feel of the bow stuff like that and the sights and the sights yeah right right I'll give that a hundred a hundred and ten percent I agree with that completely but then again we already said it you jump to the crossbows and there's the scope there's the tripod there's rests there's this there's that and if that's how you want to hunt again cool yep make it a season yep give him a season I have no problem with that so that's the first side of that my other problem with it is not only does it allow poachers and people doing not so great things to to you know be successful I think it's also diminishing

46:43let me let me how do I want to word this I think that there are people out there who are shooting a crossbow because they don't have time to practice they don't know their equipment they don't know what it's capable of yeah they're not using the rest and they're out you know just hunting and then they see a deer at 75 yards and they try to take a shot because let's be honest the bow can do it totally the bow has the I mean there's a there's a crossbow made by mission it's called the sub one it's because you have sub one-inch groups at a hundred yards the bow is more than capable but I don't think that people are practicing with a crossbow the way in a compound or you don't need to would be would be right you don't need to so that was a part of the conversation this weekend too ten point just came out with that new crossbow with that vision scope on it and that the rep was talking about he's like it's a hundred yard crossbow out of the box you set your arrow weights to it and your bolt weights whatever it is and you're shooting a hundred yards accurately within like two three inches in like 15 to 20 minutes anyone they say

47:51that's crazy that's crazy that's crazy you're not doing that with a compound you know so like okay you want to use it you want to use like okay let's say it's gun season you want to use a crossbow during gun season fine I don't even have a problem with letting crossbows creep into the end of compound season if people want to say well we want to shot at the deer before the guns go off okay fine if people want to say that right I think New York had it perfect yes New York New York and PA are very similar but they're also very different PA you get one doe you get one buck do it with shoot it with what you want right and if you want more doe tags you can buy up to six okay that's awesome yeah there you get you get you buy one license you get Turkey you get I don't know if bears an extra permit bear might be like an extra I don't know about PA but you get rifle you get you have to for a $25 stamp you get fesined but you also get small game on your regular license you can hunt coyote 365 days a year and as an out of state resident I'm

48:52almost positive that costs a hundred and eighty dollars I think it's less it might be it very well could be actually here with the deer stuff you might be right actually I'm thinking because of I go shoot coyotes I buy a hundred dollar tag it's a hundred dollar license got you I've never actually done the bow and all that stuff so I'm not sure okay you go to New York right let's say you want to hunt you want to hunt rifle you want to hunt bow you don't have to buy the muzzle loader right I think it cost 120 bucks right right as an out of state resident it cost 120 bucks let me think I think I get don't quote me on this I think you get one doe and on either or it's tag with your bow or muzzle loader okay and you get one buck tag with your rifle got it that's New York state okay and then if you have property and you know you know nuisance you can get a couple doe tags tags you can apply for an extra flex doe tag in New York they make it very simple there's just a couple seasons and that's that so much easier yeah but this is what they're done this is what their bow season was the season would open up on October 1st and you would get to hunt you know

49:53only compounds are traditional up until a certain day unless you had a medical release under the rut what's that it was after the rut that they would let the crossbows in too no it was it was before it was in the last it was in the last couple the last couple weeks of the deer season it might have been it might have been in the second half of the rut but I think it was like whatever 16th right yeah whatever maybe it might have been yeah I don't know because I never hunted crossbow up there I just I don't worry about my compound yep yep but the point is they allow the crossbows to come in towards the end of the rut which essentially is when they they open rifle here in Pennsylvania you know what I mean so it gave them an opportunity at a successful hunting experience if they you know for a buck if that's what they wanted right yep but it also gave the the archery season its own place perfect I think that was absolutely perfect agree until this year they lift that they opened it up for everything everything crossbow pretty much all year now you know so it's it's just crazy and my biggest fear is if all that I don't want to say all

50:56because I do have a lot of young kids coming in and buying bows everybody knows Matthews are still selling like crazy right yep but my fear is if the new hunters are coming into crossbows and they're never getting into archery yeah who is there to continue passing that on that's fading you know there aren't very many people who say oh I want to pick up a bow and start shooting I mean I know a few people in their 40s 56 these who decided to start yeah but way more people stopping than there are starting way more you know so it's extremely frustrating because I've only recently got like real serious about bow hunting maybe I would say in the last five years I've gotten like really serious but I've enjoyed it for forever I've always enjoyed even going to the range and just shooting you see we've got we've shot shoots together I love it I would shoot a 3D every single day if I could I absolutely would you know and just I don't know I we could talk about the we've talked about this analogy at this point but it's just something's got to get something's got to get like you said if it doesn't it's going to be 90 10 crossbows to compounds or forget to forget

51:58traditional for traditionals I don't even know what percentage is now I want to even throw percentage out there yeah I'm I'm looking to get into traditional in the next couple years I'm going to have some fun with it I can't wait to do it it's a it's going to be more challenging I'm really excited about it and it's but the crossbow again not bashing the crossbow in a sense but yes I think it should have its place and it should stay in its lane and kind of leave archery where archery belongs and I have this and I get not to be pretentious but it's not archery it is not archery it does not take the discipline in which to do traditional not even in the same universe even and or compound it is not compare that's that's just the biggest part about it so I don't know I don't know where to go from there in Jersey I don't think it's going to I don't think it's going to change I think it's going to get worse but we'll see what happens yeah it's just yeah so I'm not I'm not too familiar with bear regulations I've never bear hunted before I don't know much about it what I do know is that it seems like every year if you're not scouring the rule book you don't know what the regulations might be that given year I do know that the bear hunt

53:02has been on for a few years and offer a few years and then offer a lot of years and then bet and it's it's just this fluctuation and what I hear from the people I talk to that are in the bear space is that Jersey once again has no idea how to manage them no they don't the big thing that's changed is the baiting rules and how you can hunt the bear so it used to be that you could bait but you can't shoot over the bait if you were in a tree stand you had to be on the ground because then you could still be at 20 yards of the bait no problem now they've changed that and it's going to now it's you can't be within 300 feet of the bait basically a hundred yards it's a matter of I don't know who makes these rules who's telling you can you can't make that shot to me the baiting concept is I'm baiting so that I take an animal and I make it relaxed and I can get a very ethical shot on that animal when it's out of bait station right I don't want to be tracking a wounded bear if I can help it so if I can have that bear at 25 or 30 yards

54:05calm collected and I can wait for a perfect shot then that's what I would love to do unfortunately with the way they have baiting now you have to be a hundred yards away from that bait station so now you have to go after a bear that is either walking to or walking away from your bait station you're cutting them off so it changes your shot angles it changes your acts it changes your ability or your opportunity at the proper shot not the best idea now but you can be in a tree stand that doesn't change the other thing that's some people don't realize as we can shoot two bears a year there's the October season there's the December season I got no problem with that it's a week long this is the big thing that everyone talks about why is this season longer why don't we have it all year but now I think it's a double-edged sword and I don't necessarily so people that may be watching this that don't know that Jersey has some incredible bears we have world-class bears so does PA but if I feel like if we're able to hunt them all year that might diminish the quality a little bit so there's that's the double-edged sword there I have no problem with it being a week long the amount of effort and time that I

55:05put in for that one week long season is astronomical it's insanity yeah you know we've talked so if it was all year I don't even I don't know but the only thing that doesn't make sense in the regs to me right now is that baiting concept I'm okay that they took away being able to shoot cubs I didn't want to shoot a cub anyway you have to shoot a bear that's over 75 pounds if a cell has cubs you can't that they're under 75 pounds you can't shoot her I'm okay with that too those those two didn't didn't bother me at all it makes perfect sense I'm with it the baiting one is the only one I'll hang my hat on doesn't make sense from a management concept it doesn't make sense from a safety concept it just doesn't make sense period from a hunting concept there's nothing anyone could ever tell me that that would be a positive to not being able to hunt over the bait it just doesn't make sense someone in the anti hunting world basically said you're only getting this hunt if that's a stipulation that's basically why it happened I know we have either this season or next season I think it's one more season but the whole matter that and then the

56:07bear season has to go back through a review because we only get five years and I have to review it again what the heck was that um and that that was my cats have fighting by the way if you heard that so that's the big thing about the two things about the bear one the baiting concept and then whether or not it's going to come back around and how they're going to manage it we'll see what happened it should be put in the game code should be part of all the regular seasons but in New Jersey it's always been a separate you know a sense of conflict in the whole state yeah we'll see we're just frustrating yes and I will say that there are some guys who do really awful things in the woods yeah that don't make it very easy for us to have a leg to stand on at times right right so uh I don't know if I have all of the facts correct but a couple years ago when I was teaching in New Jersey before I left so that would have been twenty twenty twenty four the twenty three twenty four deer season eight so October twenty three and twenty four they had set the date for the bear season and then there was a traumatic event that had happened and then they stopped the bear hunt for a

57:11little while before they opened it back up again and I believe it was because some asshole I'll call him an asshole kid in his 20s went out into the woods and shot a mom in three cups in his backyard I didn't hear that yeah it was the town I was teaching and dude wow so we we so we had a we had like a like a bear scared our at our school or whatever they were bear like in like running in the field or whatever the kids were like kind of scared right and apparently they heard about it or the kid what did something about it because there's bears hanging around the school or whatever okay it was crazy and then my understanding was they shut the bear hunt down because of what happened and everybody was like in it like in an uproar and then they opened the hunt back up again I don't know if it was for the same days or what the deal was it was crazy I did not hear about any of that I did not know that it was insane and then they had to go and find the kid who did it and like I said they ended up finding out it was like a 20 something your old

58:12kid messing around with his dad shot wow that's stupid I did not hear about any of that I know that the stuff was shut down multiple time or the hunt was ever never shut down or shut down for a little bit but then it was brought back on private property only the governor shut down the hunt on all public properties so that's that was when that was shut down it actually wasn't shut down it was just shut down for public property so you could only hunt for a couple years on private property was that around the 23 season that was no I don't think it was 23 no it wasn't 23 it was before that yeah okay but it's either way it's it's there we do have good bear I hear what you're saying about the about the the limits and stuff but what about this if people want to be able to shoot a bear like okay here's my gripe with the six day shotgun and the six day bear hunt I'm a teacher I get one day yeah with each right one day right what if they were to open something like

59:13a limit like okay this is the quota we're trying to hit once hunt the hunt the bear all season as long as you got a tagged deer hunt you have a bear tag if you want to shoot the bear while your deer hunting shoot the bear right but once the state reaches their bag limit for the year the bear hunt gets shut down because if I'm not I don't know if it's Jersey or if it's another state but I think there are states that even do that during their season it's Jersey okay yeah so Jersey already does that Jersey does a 20 I forget what the percentage is but it's based on the amount of tag bears that are harvested and they look to hit that person maybe it's seven or eight percent or I don't hold me the number but it's a percentage of the tag bears once that percentage is hit in whatever was harvested the hunter shut down you're not guaranteed the six days if they if they hit it on the fourth day it gets shut down right so you have all of this high pressure on these bear in these short windows yes imagine if there weren't all these guys barreling into the woods right the name six days and you spread it out and they could shoot a bear during during opening weekend during in both season and September if they wanted to yeah yeah or they could shoot it

1:00:16during muzzle loader which I don't know why you shouldn't be able to shoot a bear with a muzzle loader it's more than capable yep you know I just well again that that's the one thing you you can shoot it in October with the muzzle loader now okay so during the shotgun during the the so it's a fire on season just general fire on season no no no no for the October season for New Jersey for bear Monday Tuesday Wednesday is bow only Thursday Friday Saturday are bow and muzzle loader okay and then in during six day which is coinciding with the bear season the second week of bear season New Jersey that is muzzle loader and shotgun only no bow okay so you can't use a muzzle load right okay so then you can shoot it during permanent muzzle loader too like that yeah right you know what I mean like that that that's my point you know why limited feel I feel like if you were to if they're looking to hit numbers every year and you allowed them to hunt with whatever they're hunting with at that time right I first of I bet you'd have more people doing it oh yeah and I think that you would have more years where you hit your quota versus where you don't I would

1:01:17agree totally because you're not stopping until you do yeah and I'll be honest with you being that I have limited days to hunt I'm restricted to the weekends if I want to hunt a Sunday I got to drive at least an hour there is nowhere around where my parents live for me to hunt on a Sunday I got you so there is zero part of me as exciting as I think a bear hunt would be right there really isn't much of me that says let me give up you know a couple weekends to to go and put bait out to a bait like I see the way you do it it's a day thing it's a whole day thing you know so okay so now I got to give up a day of a a day to bait or more a week then I got to give up the Saturday during the bear season to bear hunt instead of dear like it's I'm not doing it yeah there's no part of me but I get it there are places where I hunt everywhere in Jersey where I almost there's a place where I could go and I could go and hunt deer right now where I can almost guarantee you I'd see a bear absolutely 3% and you're right during that win week the second half of that week a lot of bears go nocturnal because of the pressure you're there's no question that you're right I think that quote aspect was it's not a bad idea at all I think the one week bear season was I know it is

1:02:21based on the conflict of what the bear hunt I mean there's no other state even around us that has bear what do you call them billboards bear anti hunt billboards all over the state saying stop about right you know New York PA so but it's you know it's always a problem in New Jersey so yeah there those people were the people that said all right well you know you'll get a bear hunt but it's only a week long blah blah blah so that was the simulation but I understand what you're saying makes sense open up to season when you hit your quota you shot it done yep totally with you here's the one let me let me say one more thing the one catch to that is because of the bear check-in status the only actual check-in stations that are actually active now in New Jersey are bears right we don't check in manually anything anymore everything is electronic but during bear week the whole state or the areas that have bear hunting zones have check-in stations strategically placed around those areas so in order to do so you'd have to have check-in stations open season

1:03:26wide with biologists there taking the DNA samples sexing the bear blah blah blah blah blah blah that's yeah that's a you know that's an obstacle if you will okay that they would have to yeah that's fair so let me ask you this then why do all states have the biote like what's the reason for this the testing and all the stuff that they do it question like I understand that I understand that the reasoning to check the bear in is because there's parts of the bear that can be sold like on the black market for like some ridiculous amount of yeah I get that yeah but I don't I don't know I mean I guess it's cool that they're doing it like testing and making sure everything's okay but why don't you do that you know what I mean if they don't have to do it if they could just if they could just have a have a you know like a fishing like a hunting store nearby that's willing to just check in the bear you know and then verify that everything is there you know what I mean like call fishing game we shot a bear can you bring a you know a fish we're gonna keep the hide we'll keep the skull we'll keep this you know we'll keep the sex organs for you get someone out here in 24 hours yeah you know it's it's it's doable it is doable and to an extent the bear the

1:04:33issues with the bear hunt might be more greatest than the deer hunt it's it's just you know the concept is the bears are a problem the deer are a problem too but the bears are like a bigger in bear areas bears are a problem yeah pain in the butt yeah and when most of the people that are against the bear hunt aren't in bear areas there's a few yeah they're I have that conversation all the time it's the people that don't live in barriers because where I go to bear hunt and I cover a lot of ground area in season and I talked to a lot of property owners almost all of them in the barriers are oh yeah yeah please thin them out take a few out we got too many very rarely is it no no no we you know we're not a we're a post of the hunt I think I'm telling you maybe on if I knocked on 20 doors if I get one person that says no I don't I don't want to bear him that's a lot yeah and I believe it yep and you know we so in the area where I hunt where I grew up hunting North Jersey yeah I don't even know if I don't even know if they're still alive anymore but we used to know this couple that lived like on the road right behind their house was the probably you know the

1:05:35public land and they would let us go through their house whatever and over the years my uncle got to know them I mean my uncle my my uncle's been here since he was five years old they moved here from Argentina's right whenever he started hunting that he's been hunting the exact same patch of woods the entire time he's been here he is now 63 okay you know what I mean sure so there I remember vividly the the wife telling me the story she was out with her dogs she has whimer in her and the bear was trying to chase the dogs into the house and as she's going inside the bear tried to come in to her house yeah that's a problem and she had to like horse kick it in the nose to get her door shut those are the experiences that people are having all time you know and then pair that with people not taking care of their trash or god forbid a pet or a kid something happens you know what I mean it's like you're right you don't see those issues but we're starting to I remember when I was in college there was a there was a bear walking down Main Street in East

1:06:36Stroudsburg what the hell's a bear doing there right you know I think there was a bear in fair lawn by the by one of the middle schools yeah and there's not a whole lot of there's not a whole lot of woods around you know when you when you boil down to that art governor based his entire well he based a huge portion of his or our old god for I'm sorry Murphy right the ex governor he based our his campaign when he was being trying to get reelected or elected on canceling the bear hunt that was one of his pillars right yeah he got in and then he canceled the bear hunt and then are mitigated as much as he could and then he realized hmm we got problems bear encounters went up to like 220 or 67% in the year or two that he cancelled it and he got to the point this guy who was the one guy that wanted the bear hunt dead buried he's turned around and was like we got to bring it back before a reason so if that guy says that everyone else if that one guy says that everyone else that's on their soapbox needs to go

1:07:42okay well maybe there's something to this yeah it's just it's just basic displacement man yes taking up their land it's still it's the it's the age-old argument yeah we've taken their land we get it yes but but if there's less woods yeah then there needs to be less animals correct a for the safety of the people living in those areas and b for the health of the herd because too much of a good thing is a bad thing everyone knows that yes when there's not enough food to go around the quality of life goes down diminishes yeah you know what I mean yeah and eventually it'll take care of itself but they're not going to like the way it takes care of itself no they won't you know because that's what happened to the quail we didn't take care that we didn't take care of the the habitat right we didn't take care of the forest New Jersey was a destination this is before my time yeah I've heard of that New Jersey was a destination for quail hunters in the Northeast yeah yep yep say your house grouse Pennsylvania house grouse yeah yeah why doesn't Jersey have grouse we're surrounded like what's the problem here you know what I mean so no you're

1:08:44100% right and the concept is that the bears I don't I don't have the answer to what I'm about to say and I've talked to biologists about this the other thing being why our population is booming the way it is like our bear populations through the roof I can only talk about what I see on my cameras and my baits the amount of cubs is astronomical I mean really man a lot most places bears will have they can have three or four cubs but maybe one or two make it all of our cubs make it very rarely well I have a bear and I run a lot of cameras and I'm pretty good with the bears now picking them out knowing what sound looks like what markings blah blah blah and I've also here for a couple years if she has a you know four cubs that next year more times than not I would say 90% plus she's still got them the second year all four wow and she's and that's when she kicks them right right there with mom for two years and they get kicked out and then she starts all over again but more times than not they're sticking around they're making it now we had a rough win through this year

1:09:44for the first time in a few years so it'll be interesting to see how that mitigates some of those numbers I'll be I'll be intrigued because I have probably 10 to 15 different sows in different areas that all had three or five cubs cheese yeah and now the way the rules are they're untouchable yeah so that's the other thing so people want a management right they want to manage the bears that's the whole point of this hunt but you're taking your baby factory your mothers your sows and your cubs and now they're protected in the regulations they can't be touched so now you're looking at your boars right now if a sow doesn't have cubs she's fair game but most of them have cubs most now you're looking at boars now you turned it into a trophy hunt which of course everyone's like oh we can't have trophy hunts got to be a management but your regulations literally made it a trophy hunt yeah yeah wow yeah wow so I'm gonna ask a night not a naive question but I don't know I feel like I should know the answer but I don't we're the only predator for a bear right in New Jersey

1:10:44yeah what I mean kill what else is managing the bear population other than the cold to cars car soccer moms yeah you know I mean like sit I mean coyotes Michael after a cub but they got to get past mom at first and I didn't happen right no so like I don't there's nothing other bears because a boar will come in and kill cubs in order to bring a sow back into heat that's probably their biggest threat okay but that's that so like you think someone like me who knows nothing about bear like other than the basics right and it took it it took one a 20 minute conversation for me to get it yeah like I don't I genuinely don't understand okay I understand politics I understand that a lot of whether it's the insurance companies which they claim it's not or the farming bureau with nose or whatever we some of us have an idea of where things are coming from there are different lobby groups in New Jersey we're very good at keeping things status quo exactly how they are correct and they tend to be the people with the deep pockets and all that stuff right so I get all that but if your goal is management right and the management piece is missing right

1:11:48if your rules don't actually coincide with management right and the solution is right there in front of you like I just that's a part and maybe it's maybe I'm not maybe I am a little bias right I am a hunter I understand it I want the opportunity and I know I I can understand the importance of the herd health and all that stuff yeah but if we're looking from a pure management let's reduce the numbers as much as possible right the way they're doing it isn't the way to do it makes no sense the answer is right there it's literally right there in front of you you know what a certain number you're limiting their ability to kill them efficiently by not shooting over bait and you're limiting the ability to shoot everything by putting regulations on the sex yeah based on some weight regulations yeah why and then and then to top to put the icing on the cake this whole I understand to an extent why some people wouldn't be okay with the baiting thing in any state I understand the taking away fair chase concept of it right I don't agree with it I bait but I understand why

1:12:49some people wouldn't be okay with it and I can almost come to terms with it if it were eliminated it wouldn't bother me it really wouldn't you know what I mean but what they're opening the door for are people who are harassing hunters and gathering hunters I've talked about this in the podcast before they're opening the door like okay if somebody knows that your bait site is 300 feet that way and you're hunting over here they're gonna drop they can easily walk in the woods and just drop food or throw one scrap of food on the ground and you are now considered baiting and I'm not just saying this is a theory we have heard reports of it happening you know what I mean so like I again I understand genuinely understand where it comes from the you know the eliminating baiting but you're just opening the door for more issues the problem is they're opening the door for the issues that they're okay with managing and that's where the problem comes in yep you you corrected me you said you've had some experiences where you've been harassed you oh yeah harassment and they and they handled it yes I have heard far more stories I don't get

1:13:50being done absolutely nobody cares nope you know what I mean you call it and they say well we'll send somebody by or we'll talk about or you know okay no problem we'll report the authority whatever the case is yeah but if but if but if you're one step over the safety line right I guarantee you you're getting your ass hooked 100% you know what I mean so like it's just and I will say this having conversations with a bunch of wardens not saying names by any means but they are not the ones that are setting this in motion they do not most of them don't even agree with a bunch of these rules obviously they have jobs to do we respect that they have to follow through with what they're told to do again totally respect that but this is coming from people that a aren't hunters and be have it in agenda and now in New Jersey they're trying to take two more seats away from the hunting public for the council they're gonna put two more civilians or whatever they call them or non-hunting members whatever that's gonna make it way worse of course is so I don't know where it goes we'll see so we have we're at like a hunt like an hour and 10 minutes I know you got kids at

1:14:50home I want to be respectful of your time I want this whole thing has been like a like a negative train but I do think that there's a season that Jersey does well and we don't have to go into it because it's pretty basic I think their pheasant season is pretty damn good I think they do a pretty darn good job with having access enough places for people to go to be able to hunt them at least in the areas that I hunt I will say I'm a little selfish there I think they could do a little bit of a better job with bird allocation as to where they put them I heard some lobbyists had something to do with birds being reallocated about eight years ago but outside of that New Jersey has I think like a seven week pheasant season they are three days a week yeah not anymore they don't stop three days a week anymore not all places now that's was a big year change okay so I've been added it for a little while yeah but the birds I will say the bird the quality of birds have reduced over the last you know since since Jersey since the rock port pheasantry right when you know got that disease and they decided not to bring it back to life yeah and they started outsourcing

1:15:54their birds they run a lot more than they fly yes ever someone with dogs that scares the crab out of me I'll be completely honest with you but outside of that you know comparing to deer and bear I think they do a pretty decent job I'll give them credit on that I will agree with you the access for our public lands if you do some research there's incredible areas that you can hunt some beautiful ones too couple that I found out about this year that I went to the first time and there were some beautiful golden rod fields that were like straight out of a magazine I mean it was really beautiful that being said the pheasant allocation from what I'm seeing and my buddy has a GSP that he's trained the last few years and we get out a couple times a year I'm not a huge pheasant hunter anymore I used to be but hearing it from him you know I'm down this year dude I saw you're talking down we oh well that's different that was a wrong private place the private preserves and stuff but on the public lands the big difference is the concept of the allocation is based on like the bigger places are getting more birds because they want people congregated in those areas where they have more hunters or a lot of birds went south some of those big WMAs

1:16:56we lost a lot of birds up here in north we hunt the gap a lot but this year they for a bunch of times a bunch of weeks don't hold me to exact schedule but they didn't they didn't stock Tuesdays and Thursdays for whatever a couple weeks or whatever it was just Saturdays was it was it towards the end of the season yeah I think so but it was where we normally would have Tuesdays Thursday Saturday they didn't go this year they did it differently and it pissed a lot of people off yeah that were up there but again to the positive aspect the access to pheasant grounds is fantastic if you do a little bit of homework you can find some incredible spots yeah and honestly no matter where you live in the state probably within an hour there's somewhere for you to hunt pheasant I know maybe down south it gets a little crazy I don't know there's a lot there's you call yours you got acid pink you got green yeah green something green wood far green I forget what to green something there's a couple really nice places down south there spread out pretty good yeah now we'll say they've always the reason I asked if it was late season is because they've always stocked three days

1:17:58a week up to a certain point yeah then they stopped stocking more yeah they stop well they stopped stocking for it wasn't it wasn't three days a week the entire season at least as long as I've been pheasant hunting so I think it was up until six day then they didn't stock at all for six day then they stock the the Tuesday following because you're not allowed to pheasant hunt during six day right it's only it's only for for dick right and then they would stock again the following week then they only would stock on Saturday and then for the last couple weeks they went back to Tuesday Thursday yeah and then everyone wants to be out in the woods for that last hunt because they release whatever birds they you know that are the left over or whatever the case is you know I will say I wish Jersey would do a better job of monitoring the safety of the pheasant hunting places I know it's a very tall ask so I'm not this isn't a criticism by any stretch but there are places I would love to take my dog like fields thickets and all this stuff yeah I won't go there because you have hunters coming in from both ends shooting at the same bird yeah like it's just it's craziness

1:18:59you know it is so we have this place where again my uncle's been hunting birds his entire life everyone knows that our car goes in this spot we have we walk straight to the back here that family walk straight to they get that field that family walks to the back there you know and then once you walk in and you get to the back sure you run into hunters every now and then but it's not that bad nice you go to those fields it's crazy yeah it's crazy yeah you go on a Saturday stock day kill a little nutty yep so if and unfortunately Saturday's the only time I can go you know so there are a couple times like Thanksgiving I go on a Thursday ironically that used to be our family tradition we'd all go get together we don't do it much anymore right but ironically there's less people I don't think it's giving than you would think they're me yeah because they're guys that do it and then there are other guys that are like okay this is the one day to stay home and help my wife or other you know girls you know whatever does everybody yeah yeah no I think I will say this about the the peasants I think they sent out a survey was it last year the year before hey would you pay more money for the permit blah blah blah blah blah blah I think a $45 to stamp is too little

1:20:04I genuinely do if you if you go to a private preserve you they're 25 bucks a bird you had two days yeah and you say I have no problem with an $80 tag if you're gonna really hunt if you're only going out one day a year or two days a year then I think over three day license exactly where I was going with that exactly where I was going with that that's what I was just gonna say that will offset the guys that are like oh I only get out for Thanksgiving or I only get out for my buddies for our one thing blah blah okay I understand that but if you shoot more than four birds a season 80 bucks is a deal if you go well no I'm just gonna say if you look at the price of birds right now at a private preserve that you're gonna go and buy a 10-pound bird package you're paying somewhere between 22 and 25 bucks a bird yes I think I've told you this before I used to work at a fesson preserve and I've seen the prices and the later in the season you go the more expensive the birds get because there's labor involved and stuff like that now I will say when you go to a preserve you're also paying their mortgage you're also paying sure for a couple of other things you know so that the number might skew down a little bit but yeah I think you I think you make a reasonable argument

1:21:07I don't know if it's $15 a bird yeah that's 60 bucks I don't know if I pay 80 for a for a tag but because all the other licenses are going towards it too you know what I mean yeah all the I hear you it all goes into a pool everything goes into it but if if you if if you if so it's it's 45 dollars now right so for 35 dollars more if they could double the birds if if if we spent more and we got more I can see it totally if we spent more I got nothing no no I'm with you but that's where that's where that conversation came from if we spent more money to fix because a lot of people are bitching about the allocation right okay you moved all the birds here there's no birds here anymore right I used to hunt Clinton a lot now if you go to Clinton there's no birds I mean you still get a couple guys that are out but there's nothing I used to be able to go there with my dog and limit out almost every single stock day no problem not even a thought that's not the case anymore say what black river which is only 25 minutes for my house used to go there all the time non-stock days no problem I'd always find a bird not the case anymore if you tell me if they tell

1:22:09us hey we'll increase the birds by 30 per 40 percent for another 35 dollar a lot of guys almost all the guys I know like it's no brainer do it yeah guys that are hunting and now I like you said you can only get out on a Saturday a lot of guys that I talk to were hunting every Tuesday Thursday and Saturday that's where the $80 would make sense yeah I mean that's that's fair I guess see that because I'll be honest my uncle lives down in point pleasant down south my my one cousin lives there with him yeah I got a cousin who lives in Newton he's probably the only one who still buys a peasant tag my brother hasn't bought a peasant tag my my other cousin doesn't buy a peasant tag right my other cousin doesn't buy one right I haven't I haven't bought one in Jersey in years right even when I was living in Jersey I didn't buy a peasant tag catch him and now honestly I feel bad because I got a bird dog you know what I mean and I and he was a great he was a great is still a great I mean we were out the little sidebar we were out running out my property a couple weeks ago I went out we went frost seeding and we used the ATV and he was running he dude he was going crazy he was having a great time so I turned to my buddy I was like hey Dave how old do you think he is he's like oh no four or five years old like dude he turned 12 last week not bless 12 you know what I

1:23:13mean so like he's still got you know yeah and we we went out last year with angelo yeah an angel never hunted over over a dog before and he couldn't believe it like hunter so we went into this one patch and there were three cockbirds walking together and hunter hasn't seen a bird in like three years dude like he's all they're saying he just he lost his shit he just took off and like I couldn't even be mad at him you know what I mean so he just takes off the birds blow up angelo you know takes a couple shots misses you know misses the the first cluster one bird goes flying down the road hunter takes off down the road instead of going into the woods it decides to run down the road right so finally get him to turn around he comes back we come back into the thicket we find one of those birds okay so now we got one of those two I watched the other bird land in the woods or at least where it went into the woods and I saw it planing down so I was like we got to go that way checking out so yeah so we're zigzagging we're going whatever and we're walking down the hedgerow and hunter is just full bore going like search and search and search and and just stops on a dime

1:24:14and snaps around and goes from like full throttle to on a solid point in like literally no time love that and it literally looks at me and he goes it's really like that and I was like yeah really like that it's the best that's so great you know so it's like it was it was great and honestly I would love to do it and now you know um being friends with you and the other guys and knowing that there are other people with dogs yeah knowing on a hunt you know like I would love to get back into it absolutely you know so if they can up those did those numbers have a great you know and especially if I have if I have success earlier in the year you know what I mean like I don't need I don't need eight bucks seven bucks whatever the case is you know the only downside is it does run through the rut bird and season does oh yeah I believe if I'm not mistaken it runs through the rut it starts in the rut yeah you know so it kicks off in the rut right so it's like there are some decisions to be made there you know what I mean but overall I think they do it pretty well of all of the seasons again I don't know anything about waterfowl that'll be the last thing we touch on

1:25:18we don't even have to maybe yeah we can go to a little bit they do they it's pretty similar to that they do a pretty decent job okay yeah so say waterfowl takes they take probably the most lots of federal things so it's a little different but they adjust consistently all the time but it's again it's federal so they do a good job okay so you're saying like with the bag limits and everything and why not and the dates they shift the dates last year we're probably the best dates we ever had where they shifted dates to a later time we had more at the end of the season the beginning of the season for me I'm a big bird hunter meaning I'm hunt mallards I really want to hunt mallards late season a lot some there is a group of guys that like to hunt wood ducks wood ducks are cool they're fun they're beautiful but I'd prefer to hunt later in the season when we get those birds out of the north and we're chasing those monster northern green heads that's just my game so I want later dates but they the state has done a pretty decent job with it lately so I really don't have too many complaints and their bag limits again they're federal they they really don't they're told what to do okay yeah sorry there's a good question do you think they would be as diligent with it

1:26:21as they are if they were not required to by the federal government absolutely no yeah not even close man yeah that was easy yeah man so I don't know I feel like we've exhausted it I mean just I wish we would have had the initial conversation we had on record because I literally it was literally like 15 minutes we're going through with the regulations the tags and the and the the zone permits for the boat for the doughtie wherever you know and that's somebody who grew up hunting in Jersey that has not changed in a very long time and it is still very difficult to wrap your head around yeah so if you guys are listening to this and New Jersey is a place you want to go I'm gonna I'm gonna end it with this we have really great opportunity and I'm hesitant to say that because everybody thinks Jersey sucks we really have a lot of opportunity we have a lot of public land access access is not our problem quality habitat is our problem part of it at least where I hunt yep but access and and the ability to find place to hunt isn't the problem no

1:27:22we have the ability to shoot a lot of deer whether you're an in-state resident or an out-of-state resident we have the ability to do it honestly come on in enjoy it be a good time it'll be different habitat you know it's as close to mountainous stuff as you can get without going to the west coast you know like we have some decent hills and stuff yeah but what I will say is whether you are a in-state resident or an out-of-state resident make damn sure that you read these regulations carefully because it is very easy to get mixed up it is very easy to get confused and not knowing or understanding the regulations is not going to be an excuse that mr. green jeans is going to want to hear hundred percent you know so we live with that hopefully things get better let me throw one thing in here real quick before we jump off that you're saying come people coming in people that are coming in and some states have this some people don't and it gets guys every year and I get guys that have hunted in New Jersey texting me all the time hey do I need to do this in this season the answer is you need to do what I'm about to say and every season that you shoot a buck or shoot a deer in New Jersey you need a transport tag on your deer when you shoot

1:28:26your deer you need to have that tag on that deer it can be taped to the deer it can be put in there's license holder and you know what see you know what exactly you will get a point on your license if you are caught without a transport tag is your transport tag like the like the thing that you fill out like well that is that has some of the information yeah yeah it's like the county how many points it has the sex of it has to have your confirmation number on it the date all that stuff so yeah it has to have all the information if you look inside the digest they have transport tags that you can copy and print them out you can do it online too but you need to have that and you can make your own you know blank piece of paper and write it all I think I did print those out last year there you go so if you have that in your license holder and you clip it to its ear you know push it through its ear whatever with the pin and all that stuff you're legal you could take the to its leg take it to it however you want to attach it you can but I can't tell you how many times I get the call or the text or the oh my god I'm you know I was driving down the road

1:29:29or I pulled up to this place or showing off this deer and green jeans pulled in and blah blah I didn't have a transport tag I didn't know you need a transport tag I'm like he's like I checked the deer in but I didn't have a transport tag I got to take it okay well now you know yeah that's that's that's crazy yeah so don't get caught with your pants down that's it we're letting you know like it's crazy and if anybody is still listening to the end of this you're the kind of people that need to hear this final message the reason that I wanted to have this conversation is because I would like to take a stab at trying to change things and my issue is it's not really an issue but I think we have more people who feel the same or at least willing to talk about change than people that aren't we are just not at least in New Jersey and at least as far as I'm aware so please correct me if I'm wrong we are not very organized and we are not buried together with it and I get it we're arguing you know I want crossbows I don't want crossbows that's that is a second tier problem the first tier problem is the the bag limits the zero incentive to shoot deer like those are the big problems I

1:30:32need to be addressed so if there is anyone who agrees with this or is interested in joining in on some type of petition or anything I would like to know that there's some numbers before I start to push forward but any of you guys are any one listening to this are interested in being a part of a change for New Jersey please contact me my email is wing and tail dot chris at gmail.com you can reach me on instagram wing and tail underscore outdoors or wing and tail dot outdoors wherever reach out to me let me know you heard the podcast and let's work together to make some change and last but not least Brian if you can let people know where they can find your stuff and you can consume my content so timber life outdoors you can find it on Instagram again just the name so it's timber underscore life underscore outdoors Facebook's just the name timber life outdoors and and YouTube's the same as Instagram timber underscore life underscore outdoors check it out hit me up with some messages let me know what kind of content you guys want to see if we haven't put it up already or if you have any questions what we put out love to hear from you yeah guys Brian

1:31:36Brian enjoys being behind the camera way more than he enjoys being behind the gun or whatever he enjoys shooting deer but I'm telling you the quality is crazy you guys won't be disappointed so check with that being said guys thank you so much for tuning in I hope you guys enjoy the conversation again if you like what you hear should me a message leave a comment down below and until next week remember success if you're a podcast host listen up this once for you my name is Ali Jackson I'm the host of finding mr. height a dating and relationship podcast that I've been doing for four years now sharing my positive and practical approach to dating that's built on my own life experience and I wanted to share another experience that I've had my secret behind monetizing my show it's called red circle and I was just telling my colleague about how much I love their platform with red circle not only am I getting a seamless hosting experience but I also love the support I receive in ad sales it's not just typical ad sales either it's targeted opportunities based on my show and my life and the platform is super simple you just set your preferences and red circle matches you with sponsors that align with your show you can vet every opportunity and their platform gives you

1:32:40great analytics more recently too my red circle team has brought me opportunities outside of my podcast on social media to really augment the podcast partnerships bring them full circle I just can't recommend them enough if you want to give it a try go to red circle dot com to get your free trial that's red circle dot com for a free trial the sun shining birds are singing and all feels right in the world until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed in fact one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year at the american psychiatric association foundation our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round please visit mentally healthy nation dot org to learn more