Why Are You Like This? with Megan Rapinoe

0:00Hi everyone from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. Today we're bringing you an episode of a new podcast called Why Are You Like This with Megan Rapinoe from a Touch More and the Vox Media Podcast Network. In this episode, host Megan Rapinoe sits down with five time WNBA All-Star Coach Cheryl Reeve, the winningest coach in WNBA history. The WNBA has exploded in popularity in recent years. On top of the surge in viewership, the league's 30th anniversary season tipped off on the heels of an historic collective bargaining agreement that gave players a nearly 400% salary increase. Cheryl Reeve has been head coach of the Minnesota Lynx since 2010. In addition to leading the team to four WNBA World Championships, Reeve

1:01supported the Lynx's 2016 protest against police brutality and continues to advocate for social justice issues in Minneapolis and beyond, including as an outspoken supporter of transgender athletes. In this conversation recorded live during the WNBA All-Star Weekend, Megan and Cheryl get into how she's evolved as a coach, the WNBA's legacy of activism and why she's proud of the league where, quote, everyone is so authentically themselves. Stick around. Support for this show comes from Odo. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow, none of them ever talk to each other. That's where Odo comes in. And all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets.

2:03Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try it today for free at odu.com slash kara. That's od o o dot com slash kara. I'm Aina Garten. On my new podcast, Happy Hour with Aina. I'm inviting really interesting guests to join me for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. I'll be getting personal with chefs, actors, comedians, musicians, and writers I admire. So grab a snack, pull up a chair, and join us. Subscribe to Happy Hour with Aina on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes will be available every Wednesday, starting September 16th. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on Why Are You Like This? I am talking with Roxanne Gay. That's right. Roxanne Gay. Roxanne is a fearless writer and cultural critic whose impact was way

3:08beyond her New York Times bestselling books. We dig into all the big moments of her life. And, of course, she shares if she's more mommy, daddy, or baby. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This? Wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. My dad said, Cheryl, are you a lesbian? And I remember the word at that time. I was like, God, no, not when I was a lesbian. I was more a dyke than I was a lesbian, right? At that age, right? I was. Please welcome the host of Why Are You Like This? Two-time World Cup Champion, Megan Rapinoe. Hello, everybody. Hi, hi, hi. You know, you just like get a little nervous for anime.

4:28All of a sudden, I'm like, I knew what the call time was and I knew a time of show was starting. But then I got up here and I'm like, oh my god. It's just me. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Why Are You Like This? I'm Megan Rapinoe. We are live here in the Windy City. Of course, shout out Charlton. Chicago, this is actually where I started my professional career, LOL. It was so fucking cold when I got here. I think it was like April too and they were like, it's actually warming up. It's spring. It's like, that's cute. Before we get the show started, I wanted to just kind of like run down what this new show is going to be like. Why are you like this? I want to be sitting down with disruptive people, athletes, of course. We have an amazing guest today.

5:31But also like people across culture, artists, politicians, aren't there anybody who will say yes. Sitting down and having a different kind of conversation. I feel like I got this question all the time. I think I still do in a lot of ways. Implicitly, explicitly, sometimes literally, why are you like this? What's going on? Sometimes my mom asked me that. Do you have to do it? Do you have to be the one to say it? I'm like, I do, mom. Remember those lessons? But I feel like I got this question all the time. Why do you say the things you do or why is your hair that color? Why isn't it that color? Why do you wear the things you do or not? I mean, not usually that. I feel like I'm not like a a skin boy or anything. But I think it's really easy to flatten people out or things out. I think in

6:34our media landscape and culture, right now people are really not really people. I think things are like wanting it to be simple. And humans just really aren't that simple. We're way more complicated that. We're way messier than any sort of one tagline thing. I think everybody knows that. There's a lot more nuance. I feel like that's the conversation I want to have. Just putting a little bit more space into why are people the way that they are? Why do they make the decisions? Where does that come from? Who are the people that shape them? That was something that I feel like was always important to me to be able to have that space. I'm like, I don't know, sometimes I use humor when I'm sad. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? Why do we do that? That's so weird. I'm so sad and I'm going to make a joke about myself. Okay, I'm interested in that for other people and also for myself and I know having this space to do that is really important. So that's kind of

7:36the way that I want to have all of these conversations and talk to people. That's kind of like the impetus to the new show. So that's that. Obviously we're recording in the middle of W&B All-Star. Have you guys been taking in the the sights and the scenes and the sounds? Yeah. How is it? This is like people's first All-Star. Baby's first All-Star. Okay, people's like 25th All-Star. Anybody? Somebody. Somebody here has been here for a very long time. We have the winningest coach in the W&B A joining us today. That's right. Yeah, she's a baller. You know her. You'll love her. Five time All-Star Coach Show, Reeve. Plus you're going to get some reactions to my hot take. So I'm going to let you guys throw some shit out there and now you like to say stuff. I like to hear stuff. Welcome to Why Are You Like This with Megan Irvino. I'm Megan Irvino.

8:45Let's get into it. I feel like the the first thing that I was excited about is the said buts. Right? We have we've got blue hair now and I'm like I get it. I've been there. I like let's change it up. I love it for them. Never got paid to change my hair but I'm like that was stupid of me. Hey AT&T. I have a clean talent for you. No, you got your girls. I get it. I'm loving it. Are you guys like following in on their content? We're just we're vibing. Have we had any like favorite moments so far you can just like holler them out if you want or not. You got on their live stream? Wow. What were you doing? You don't even hear like we don't know. We were just there. I love it. I got to go to the presidential Obama Center this morning. Is

9:51anybody been? Wow. It was kind of shocking. I feel like we've gotten used to some stuff. At a different level, a lower one obviously. And I'm like damn he could talk. That's inspiring. I'm like CC play day. Yeah, we can. Right? We can. Yes, we can. It was absolutely beautiful. I also saw all of the footage of them practicing. I feel like it was just so cute. They were like he loves them and they love him. And it was just like that's amazing. That was so cool. There's some just moment. I do believe in film and I get it and I'm trying to work on it. But I'm like I want to play in the WNBA at the all-star game. I don't even need to do the whole season of going. I want to play the all-star game. I want to dribble around

10:55and like have President Obama be amazing all the time. I hope all the fewer players were reading the plaques and stuff but no. Okay. I too am wondering where my three-point contest invitation was just if those were getting lost up like did did mine. They were sending them out late. I don't know. What happened there though? You know what I love about the WNBA players? They will just like never, ever not call out shade. They're like no you didn't ask me. They're like excuse me in a press conference. I didn't receive the text message. Nor did I receive the official invite. Don't come for me. K-Mac I feel like and Sabrina especially they were like mm-hmm we love to shoot a three. We would a shot that thing but anyways that's all the jokes I have for now. Let's get to our guess. Sure

12:05riffs bio is like just kind of ridiculous but I'm gonna do it. So that's actually the bulk of the show. So I'm just gonna be here for the next 46 minutes or so. She's the wing is coach of all time in the WNBA. She's been inducted in the women's basketball hall of fame. She's led the Minnesota links to not 1-2-3 but four WNBA championships. One commissioners cup win. She's got a gold medal to her name. The 2024 Parapsylympics. Incredible. I was in the stands for that. Everybody saw it. That was a two. Sorry Gabby. We love you but absolutely not. When you're playing for the blue and we're in America. Okay no. She's been the coach of the year four times. Nadeem named an all-star coach five times. Please welcome to the show New Jersey and Minnesota's finest. Shail Ring.

13:20I'm here. And a fellow gay obviously. You don't say. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So exciting. Yes. This could not be more fitting. I heard the same darn thing from my mom. Why are you like that? Yeah. Yeah. It's just perfect. What are you doing? What do you like that? How are you? How are your sleep levels? WBA All-Star is a totally different beast. How does it feel to be coaching in the All-Star game again for the fifth time but just in general how has this experience been so far? It's always really special. It's a celebration. This is one of the few times that you know all these great competitors and all the things that you see in the moments in the games that might be difficult and competitive. It looks like we don't like each other. When you're at All-Star you see there's actually lots of love for everyone right. The coaches, the executives,

14:25the players themselves and so it's really refreshing to be in that moment. Obviously it's a great honor. It's never lost on me although there's sometimes when I think maybe just going to sleep for a few days would be great but it's always an honor and obviously now I have a son who's 11. How much he enjoys being around the WMBA players is one of his favorite events to come to. He was an Indianapolis last year. He had a great time and he was really excited. We had a chance to come back. I love it. Oliver's in the crowd there. Shout out to Oliver Harrison. Your coaching team spooned this year. I'm curious maybe you like didn't envision that you would be here this year. Your team went through quite the transformation. Why is that funny to you? I'm like I'm just like I know honestly people ask me all the time if I'm in a coach and I'm like are you fucking serious? Do you know what it means to be a coach? Do you know the levels of stress?

15:26We were talking just backstage. You lost eight or nine of your players. Fee had not won but two ankles done in the off season. She's recovering from that. You had a high draft pick so you drafted Olivia. I mean you have to like put the ball in a rookie's hands. I mean who knows how that's going to go. That's crazy. Like it turns out it's fine. But you're here. Your team is in first place. You're the only 20 team, 20 game, win team, 20 win team. Jesus. 20 win team. Yeah. I'm like I can't even do this. How am I going to coach? You know what? You only 20 win team in the league. What does this one mean to you? Wow. It's been a lot when I think about CBN negotiations. A lot of uncertainty. And then boom, you know we got the word. It's on. And you know we've been preparing and we sort of knew some of

16:32the changes we were going to go through as a team that were inevitable with the increased money and roles that people could have. I felt really incredibly proud about the team that we had in 24 and 25 really really special. And we create a lot of opportunities for for these players. But then when it was all said and done I was kind of pissed. You know where I'm going. That's just great. You know like we did all this and they chose other teams and we're supposed to celebrate them. And now you know outwardly it was really great. But when I was home I was like this sucks. And you know you have to start over you know kind of obviously it's not starting over when you have Fee Courtney and and McBride. It's not starting over. But as you mentioned you know starting this season with such uncertainty. You know we didn't know and I think about training camp which feels like a year ago at this point. But the the training camp there was a lot of uncertainty even who was going to make the final roster. Those are not necessarily your best seasons. And I think what happened in maybe all of our sort of granular thinking about who was going to make the roster.

17:37Something special was actually brewing with the starting five that we had with obviously Olivia Miles. It was week two after we had a preseason game in Kansas City that I had this sort of moment where I thought okay we can go forward with Courtney as the sometime point guard and sometimes live you're the point guard. Or we can just get right to it. Let's just get right to it. And in week two I just I brought Courtney in and I said hey I think we want to you know turn the turn the reins over to live and let her just go you know and and you know she stood up she said let's you know an only way Courtney can you know let's go all height and and I think it's the right thing and I can go back to my natural spot. And so that last week that third week boom we just sort of took off Nia coffee having her best best season in her career. It's about opportunity as we're seeing around the league whether it's expansion or team like ours maybe some dilution in our team and so new opportunities around the league and and then in Tasha Howard coming back and everybody

18:43just sort of fitting those that starting five really fitting really really special through the first half of the season their net rating was darn near plus 20 and I've got a bench that were you know they're still trying to figure me out my impatience and how to fit in into that impatience and you know yeah it's it's hard to believe that we're sitting here first in the league and you know 20 plus wins you know I feel grateful. Support for the show comes from Odo running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales and other for inventory a separate one for accounting before you know it you're drowning in software instead of growing your business this is where Odo comes in. Odo is the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM accounting inventory e-commerce HR

19:44and more no more app overload no more juggling logins just one seamless system that makes work easier and the best part Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost is built to grow with your business whether you're just starting out or already scaling up plus it's easy to use customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odo for free at Odo.com that's o-d-o-o.com Hi I'm Bella Freud each week on Fashion Neurosus I invite guests from the world of fashion art film music sport and literature to lie on my couch and explore the connection between identity and fashion this week on fashion neurosis I welcome Charlie X-E-X to be childlike as an adult I think

20:49takes a lot of bravery because there's always this fear of being embarrassed I suppose you also have to kind of like be willing to completely fall on your face all the time pursuing that child likeness can sometimes really open you up to ideas that maybe you would feel too embarrassed to have if you weren't doing that and I think that's quite scary thing but a really beautiful thing find fashion neurosis on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts hi I'm Bella Freud each week on Fashion Neurosus I invite guests from the world of fashion art film music sport and literature to lie on my couch and explore the connection between identity and fashion this week on fashion neurosis I welcome Shanaya Twain I did really want to flaunt it I just wanted to be myself and be natural like you know this is my body and so why shouldn't I wear things that

21:54flatter it and that I enjoy wearing that make me enjoy my body instead of not wanting my body I resisted it until I started making videos and then man I feel like a woman was that was oh now I'm like oh you know this is way too much fun like like this was blowing my mind find fashion neurosis on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts the perfect segue of why are you like this coach Cheryl I don't know if you heard me talking backstage but the the question I really want to get to in the show is that and I feel like I've had this question a million times and a million different ways and I think there's so much especially you've had such a long career you've been in the game so much you get like that yeah such a long career you've been in the game so long and accomplished yeah but still young and bright and a long road ahead of you

23:02but you have like an established who you are in this league and I'm so interested I feel this for me of like I feel like there's two of me I'm like there's Megan Rapino and everybody knows that you know that's kind of like who's in front of the mic and then like Megan's like inside of Megan Rapino right now and she's like whoa this is crazy so there's two I wonder if you ever feel that that sort of like divergence of personality we're like yes your show read the coach Olympic coach all-star coach coach of the Minnesota links like all-time coach in this league and then there's also just you do you feel those two things and how do you feel them the first one you describe I don't think of myself as and that's that's hard for me I don't I don't see that I I am such a sort of grinder in the moment and then I come to places like these and then the gravity of the moment and the maybe your impact you start to you know to to feel that but for me it's just kind of where I am

24:07and what I'm doing that day and you know that practice and I only know one way and that's to kind of pour in to what I'm doing there so I don't feel like I have that I'm the same I mean it's kind of scary for my family that what you see I'm actually like at home you know and that can be hard I know for that you know for those two in my life but I'm by nature a very critical person very critical myself critical those around me I've tried to evolve in that space and be less critical you know and that's that's been an evolution you know I'm still evolving as they say who shaped that part of you do you think who the critical just like the I mean part of it is the critical but also just like the share all the coach the you know the wife the mom the like person that you are in the world I'm not sure because I've kind of gone through that like am I more like my mom or my dad and you know who like what is it from I have those questions when you get older right like where does this come from who do I oh you know like who do I thank you know

25:12and so recently so my mom's 87 and you know recently you know people are asking her things and so she's doing a little more storytelling and and they asked you know somebody asked about sort of my stronger voice or willingness to you know to speak on things she's how she was always like that such a smart mouth you know when she was you know just a youngster just always had something to say and I was like okay so I guess it's always been the case I have felt confident but they're you know from a professional standpoint I think I've always been I was a point guard I remember in my freshman year when I went to LaSalle University and we were doing our fall workouts and I've just always had a way of sort of speaking you know whatever I was thinking and what it's not always good I don't mean to say this is like complimenting myself at all it's not always good having a filter would be much better yeah now I've been there I'm like uh but I remember we were playing pickup and

26:14I'm I'm mad we're just playing pickup and but I just I wanted to win that possession and you know and and I'm yelling at my teammates that don't even know me yet I'm telling them you know get back on deed don't rest don't rest on defense you know like let's right away I'm just kind of and I think if you just take that and just put that everywhere you know like as a teammate you know as a partner you know probably as a mom I think I'm a little softer as a mom but I think the you know the idea of you know saying you're saying what you think there's value in the in the truth right I think that's but I that I've really kind of learned is not everybody really wants to hear the truth you know and sort of finding that balance of I think you should surround yourself with people that are going to be honest with you I think that's really important I've shared that with Oliver when he didn't get the report gritty that he wanted I say you should thank your teacher for that and he thought I lost my mind but it's true you know is there something to like you're not nobody's perfect there's always room to grow um go back to what the original question was because I'm starting

27:17to go on my tangents uh I like it I'm like I'm locked in yeah just who shaped you yeah the shaping that part of yeah so so so when I first got the WMBA as an assistant coach um again I you know I work for you know some people that maybe my directness as an assistant coach wasn't always appreciated um it was coming from a space of wanting to wanting to win um but I thought everyone was confident you know in what they were doing and when I started to recognize that maybe that wasn't the case it was when I went to work for Bill Lambeer um that he he he embodied the uh be yourself how important is for everybody to show up and be yourself and he wanted me to be myself and so for me it was you know I could be hard hitting and I could speak my mind and that was okay and that was sort of the first time that I thought how good that felt like to be able to be yourself uh and then you know I'm just you know when I went from there right into head coaching um I feel

28:18like that gave me the confidence that everyone needs to be able to be themselves every player and their personalities or everyone that's working for you so you can bring your authentic self to the workplace and how what you know great height you can reach in doing that so I've just been able to do that players let me be me I'm so every every season I thank the players thank you for letting me be me because it's not always easy but they know that I'm coming from a place of of care and love and wanting the best for everyone involved that's um such an interesting thing I feel that so much of like if everybody's allowed to bring their falls it's not it's going to be less comfortable but it's going to be better yeah for everyone um certainly Bill was wanting to bring um his full self I mean I think you have at least on the outside from from I'm sort of like half in half out but from my view you have a real reputation of allowing players to be themselves in a really wide spectrum um I mean I I think back to I feel like my real first like in entree into the Minnesota

29:23Lynx is 2016 and you know the players protesting police brutality flando can still just been murdered in Minneapolis um your players are standing up there you're standing with them all the way to like you know Maya Moore and her activism that you know eventually let her away from your team um have some regrets yeah yeah you're like you know what good for you Maya love that for you um you know to the stud buds like they were too um you know really outspoken and they were like doing the stream and first such kind of like a hard-ass coach or someone who says what they think and what they feel you really like let them do that and I'm curious about the I always feel like doing the right thing isn't 100% altruistic like there's you know at the end of the day like you're judged on your wins and losses and I'm curious how you think about that

30:26in in terms of letting your players be who they are in terms of your like coaching style and your strategy in trying to be the best coach that you can yeah I think it's really simple exactly what you said um another recent one was was obviously the stud buds and I we were in Dallas and I guess they I'm not real up on this and so it's probably for the better that I don't know a lot of this but sometimes people send me things you know uh and so I was really unaware this was Dallas in I guess it would have been 2025 and we had just had our film session and we were breaking we were going to go do our pregame meal we're going to go out that game that night and I get a message um from Courtney and T saying they wanted to meet and I thought oh that's kind of annoying we'll have our routines and like why would we be eating now like what are we doing and so they bring me in and they sit me down and they go we're worried you know we're worried what are you worried about well we're worried because I might have put a battery on Dijonet Carrington's back who was playing for

31:27Dallas at this time which means um that maybe she said something on the stream that might have gotten her motivated a little extra motivated that night apparently she was maybe disparaging the lack of success that Dallas was having at that time uh and she said she's like she's like I'm worried you're going to be upset with us I'm worried you're not going to be okay with this and so I said well tell me exactly what happened here you know uh and Courtney I like you know we have we have some good banter and um there's a fine line and I I I told her 10 years ago maybe I wouldn't be able to to be in the space that I am uh so we always said the timing of our spying together has really been important I don't know that Courtney could handle me 10 years ago uh and me them right because it really has stretched my boundaries uh and it's fun right it's really fun to kind of do that but all of it while the team is successful that's why I told that as long as the main thing is the main thing um and that's been stretched um you know and and I'm a big believer in you get what you accept

32:28and so I wanted them to know how important it is that they are mindful of their teammates and how they feel and it may be they're very comfortable in this very loud space this very um you know revealing etc but not everybody is and so always considering your teammates and your organization you know make sure that you know that you know you're representing yourself your family your organization all the things so I you know I do that spiel and then they assured me that you know it was all about winning and and doing that and and so um you know you mentioned the you know the activism and you know same thing you know when we went through you know in 2016 I don't know if you have time for this if you're interested in this in this part of this but yes you are okay sure and yes and uh you know it was a really difficult time um you know 2016 wasn't new in terms of what was happening with police officers involved shootings or you know the racial profiling etc some on Augustus had experience being racially profiled a couple of years before um I had some conversations with players and coaches

33:33and you know we just talked about their experiences you know going going shopping going through a store and being followed and and just different things that sort of accumulated over time and this particular one was hard uh Simone Augustus uh that you know in Baton Rouge uh Alton Sterling had been murdered at the hands of the police and um and I remember thinking uh you know like how difficult that was for Simone Simone had frequented that store that it occurred in front of uh and so that was on our minds you know having those conversations and talking about their feelings and then just a couple of days later we were in Connecticut at the Mojigat son getting ready for a game with the Connecticut son and we woke up to the news of Philando Castile his awful murder in the hands of police in St. Paul uh Minnesota so it was really it was really hitting close to home for us and you know I learned a long time ago that when the unaffected or affected that's when change can happen uh I'm the unaffected I'm white I'm with privilege uh and um

34:39I was affected and so I remember waking up and not really giving a shit about the game that night I thought how can I give a shit how can I go into shoot around and and and you know you know demand you know this focus this you know this preparation and uh we went and uh before shoot around we gathered the captains Lindsay Simone, my and Rebecca and I told them how I was feeling I said I can imagine how you all are feeling and and so we gave them the space to talk and I said let's do something let's let's use our voice for good let's use our voice for change what do you guys want to do and and they um thoughtfully I said I'll give them the space and they thoughtfully came up with the idea of wearing t-shirts that represented you know some names that were just recently involved in the police officer involved shootings um you know the the phrase black lives matter in 2016 is very different than the phrase in 2026 um and in between it was a Thursday night we had a game

35:42Thursday night and then Saturday we were going to be playing Dallas at home and Friday uh my job was to get on the phone uh and alert um those key stakeholders to let them know that our players admitted decision they were creating these t-shirts and they wanted to be thoughtful and change starts with us was what was on the front I was on the back the names of those that were involved and by Friday evening there was a um ambush of police officers in Dallas and so they quickly said we need to have that Dallas police department shield on that shirt and representing trying to represent everyone that you know we have to come together for some solutions uh by Saturday night there was a planned press conference by Saturday night I was already on the phone with the president of of the league at that time and my phone calls were calling to say this is what we're doing this wasn't asking for their permission their forgiveness or anything like that this was important

36:43that they understand that their support was so important at this time uh the president of the league at that time um there was there were two hats as she was wearing she was wearing the hat of a commissioner and she was wearing the hat of a black woman and and so I understood uh and I told her I understood um but I told her I was going to take it out of her hands completely uh and we're doing this um and and by that night we had a press conference uh as our four powerful um captains stood in front uh I was visiting hour before the game with the director of security uh at the target center and I was told to the police officers walked out and we did not have uh a secure facility and they walked out because we had black lives matter on our t-shirt and I said they're making the very point of what we're talking about they're making the very point of what we're saying that enact change that we all have to be a part of this solution and uh it was a lot to go through I told them that it takes courage to stand in this because there's a lot that's going to come from

37:49this that's not going to be favorable uh and I said oh by the way and you have to win tonight and you have to win tonight because when you do the main thing the main thing when you don't win keeping the main thing because when you don't win then people say see if you're stuck to basketball and focus on the right things so we want to make sure we could silence uh and we won by 30 that night as heavy as things were we won by 30 that night thanks for letting me tell that story being on the right side of things is good business we always say that that's exactly right um I want to talk a little bit about your your personal style of activism you you know take you took this opportunity you take every opportunity uh whether it's in media to press conference um you you have an unprecedented slogan shirt collection it's it's well documented it will be an impuse them in Minneapolis at some point after your retirement it's exceptionally i can't even imagine how big your

38:51closet is uh just with the shirts obviously um it just would be perfectly reasonable for you and most people do to just like wear a suit why don't you? well this was post covid you know the meta part of it right and so you know post covid who wanted to go back to wearing suits I look at some of the pictures in hell silly I looked wearing suits and heels and you know and I thought what a time that was and um and so you know it was actually that decision of post covid of what were we gonna do what were we gonna we weren't wearing those things anymore and and so how could I rock my new style uh and so I just wanted to I want people to be seen feel seen heard and there's just so many things that we could really champion uh for women and uh more other marginalized groups and and um I just started um doing that and I just uh heard from so many

39:55people what it meant to them and so we've can we've continued that no it really is I mean it's kind of like your signature now and it seems like such a small thing but it's it's really not it's taking the opportunity every time to say like week I'm gonna wear this orange shirt because you know we care about gun violence or I'm gonna wear a shirt about abortion rights or black lives matter or whatever it is or you're wearing your players like you're supporting your players do you do you feel it I mean Minneapolis has such a long history of protest I mean righteous protests um Renee good Alex pretty um victims of ice this year it's it's just like it's it feels like it's always the first place that it really pops off do you feel like being a Minnesota so long like do you owe Minnesota something have you been shaped by it like tell me about that relationship with the city in particular yeah I mean I think there's you know George Floyd uh which was you know

40:55worldwide um you know influence I think that we've just been so good for each other uh you know the Twin Cities communities in Minnesota and uh they've let me be me um hopefully I've let them be them and died together we've been really really good and I feel you know you mentioned the ice protest and um I feel so proud to be a part of the community and one of the decisions I made when I was hired uh to be the Minnesota Lynx head coach was I was I wanted to live in Minnesota that was at a time when coaches were living somewhere else for six months and then coming into market you know or flying in occasionally and it was a really conscious decision that we wanted to be a part of the community uh best decision uh that I made and obviously now raising you know a beautiful child into you know the community and what he's learned and how he's been impacted um so incredibly proud of how we show up for each other and it was on full display worldwide uh in

41:56what Minnesota did uh to support um and so I get energized and I feel empowered uh by by living in the community no it's a really special I mean Prince like performing at one of your guys' after-parties after you want to do incredible just incredible yeah yeah incredible hi Conic um I want to um transition a little bit to your upbringing you're from Jezzy yeah is that a decent accent? So Jersey, Jersey, Jersey, Jersey, yeah, Jersey, South Jersey you know I mean first and foremost do you hate pumping your own gas uh yeah you know that's actually that's did you guys know what she's talking about yeah I feel like I have no one I'm talking about shout out to my producer Courtney like she's like you have to ask because it's really funny and it's annoying when you go somewhere right you go you know when you when you just roll up and you put your window down and hand the card right in Jersey and man when you come to Minnesota in the winter and I'm like God I wish I was in Jersey right now uh when I pump it a gas it's like the probably the only time that I

42:56kind of have that moment of like what how we could get this yeah so like any good millennial I have a love hate relationship with Jezzy it's the phenomenon rattling millennials they just look at you they want something bigger themselves lifestyles of priority motivation is being inspired but regardless of how you feel about Jezzy it's undeniable that they're changing national politics generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties many now more likely to identify as independent so what is going on with the kids I think the biggest misconception about Jezzy's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialist that is just not the case yeah yeah they are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats this week on America actually Jezzy researcher Rachel Jem Faza joins us to separate Jezzy fact versus fiction it's not

44:03rocket science and this is you know I keep saying like young voters aren't that complicated after all it's pretty simple catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts have you ever wondered who invented rock and roll or why Fleetwood Mac fell apart or what it was like at Motown in the early years well do I have a podcast for you my name is Will Anderson I'm a songwriter a musician and a huge music history but I'm so excited to announce my new podcasts the Monday music club I teamed up to make this podcast with a Vox media podcast never because ever since I was a kid I loved hearing and reading stories about classic artists recording sessions and music history and I wanted to have a place to be able to take what I've learned and share some of those favorites with you every Monday I'll be releasing a new episode and deep diving into a new story with experts and special guests and it's gonna be a blast so if you're a music history geek like me or even just a casual music fan jump in because I promise my name music club is gonna be the podcast for you hustle culture told us to grind 24 seven and we would become overnight

45:04millionaires and a lot of us believed it but this week on net worth and chill I'm making the case that the grind might actually be making you broke because between the door dash orders and the ubers and the sent out laundry the hidden costs of overworking add up faster than you think I'm breaking down the real financial toll of burning out while trading sleep for side hustles is off in the wrong math and what Gen Z quietly quitting actually gets right plus I'm answering your questions including how to tell if your business ideas actually good whether cash out your vacation days or take them and how to actually grow your wealth without destroying yourself in the process listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on youtube.com slash your rich bff um I always say that um little Megan had lots of wisdom she was wild but she had lots of wisdom I want to talk about little Cheryl for a bit what do you remember of like how you saw the world at that time like what are you saying your mom always always asking this question of you um you

46:10were born into braska but raised in New Jersey um not far from philly lebron's going to philly if people are interested in that I don't know go he was supposed to be a timber wolf. You know it's tough. What do you remember about that little girl and how you saw the world way back then? I just remember um loving sports I started a young age softball was my first love um I was actually you know pretty pretty decent um in that sport and um remember playing with the boys um so it was interesting that you know girls can play boy sports um at that time because we didn't have you know we didn't have the opportunity to have our own teams uh and so I didn't think anything of it I just wanted to play I had two brothers one older one younger we were always doing something playing 500 in the backyard you know baseball emulating uh chuck foreman uh you know it was kind of wild that I end up you know being in Minnesota when the Vikings were you know a team that I really loved mostly it was the helmet the purple and that little yellow thing uh but then I became to love

47:13you know some of the some of the players and I just always wanted to you know be in sports and play I don't remember um you know obviously the things that you learn when you're older how the real how the world really works uh I don't remember being aware I remember my dad uh I don't know if it was intentional I'm still you know trying to figure that out whether he was being intentional to empower his daughter or if this was just him being him but um he treated me the same as my brothers um I was right there with him when he was working on home improvement projects he was very much a DIY guy we didn't have a lot of money so we did everything um I was right there with him and um I don't remember I don't remember much I remember you know a little bit further in life um you know when you start to you know like learn about who you are and your sexuality and things like that um then I realized that I knew when I was younger younger um but that really wasn't necessarily what you did right um uh so there's just so much and and it was high school you know you went through kind of learning who

48:20you are and kind of going I don't really know what just means I don't really care I'm just me I'm still the day haven't come out anywhere um but it isn't obvious I always was like and I know I mean it's obvious right uh well you know my dad actually asked me one time I was 16 and I had gotten maybe a note from a friend that maybe we were feeling a little extra whatever it was a very long note and I must have left it out and dad found it and uh it was a comeback to the bedroom kind of conversation and you know and uh he asked me which is him you know my mom wasn't there um and they said my dad said sure all are you a lesbian and I remember the word at that time I was like god no not when that a lesbian uh I was more a dyke than I was a lesbian right at that age right I was lesbian dad grow up I was I'm a dyke uh but I was going through you know I was in high

49:26school and and I tell my I tell my son this because you know this upset them but I tell him it's okay uh we were I was changing classes uh or I was in between like it wasn't a change of class it was just a couple people on the hallway and and I remember walking down the hall and from a distance I hear someone yell dyke down the hall and it really hurt my feelings you know and I thought like well my gosh like what's like what's like why are we doing this years later I found out right it was a a teammate and you know what I'm about to say they're a dyke yeah right they were they they were the one um and so that's my that was my journey and uh I always was able to you know sort of live my like my truth and even maybe when it wasn't supported in my in my uh up upbringing it wasn't you know like hey we we we love you no matter what it wasn't necessarily that I just it was just that's who she is like but don't tell me but don't tell anybody else you know don't let's not tell

50:28the family you know that sort of thing um but I've always been fortunately uh what I now know on apologetically uh myself and I don't know where that came from but I'm very thankful that's who I've been did you have a like a come to jesus moment in in coaching where yeah I mean I think it's like no seeker in the wnava they really tried to push this like fem kind of like feminine straight vibe I think they tried to push it on players and coaches like when did you become comfortable we're just like I'm the motherfucker who throws the jacket on the floor and is like not lady like you know it's so coded but he really are one of the um the most prominent in like first coat maybe it was bill lambeer you know he's more like a lesbian than we think I don't know um but that moment where you're just like you know what like I'm gonna just I'm just gonna be me in this

51:28well I and I've said just recently as I've reflected more on my career in the wmba uh I was coming out of college coaching and college coaching in the 90s you know was absolutely brutal uh for those of us that knew who we were um you couldn't really be out which was just all really silly it's still silly anybody that is it's just um it's unfortunate but that's what it was at that time societal norms that's that's what we were dealing with at that time uh and then there was all the code of you know like use against you and recruiting um you know family atmosphere was the thing uh in the 90s um and then I I I I I I I I I I I I I'm Donna been giving me the opportunity to coach in the wmba uh in 2001 you know if you guys heard this story but uh she offered me $5,000 uh to be uh an assistant coach and uh I was absolutely like total in total maybe that that was my salary she's like sure I don't have much you know at my full-time position is filled and this is what I have

52:30and it was $5,000 and uh you know my my family I had I had two degrees and I have an older brother who was you know very logical you know for him is like everything is planned and uh and he was kind of like you know you do have two degrees you know and and uh but I was like I really wanted it I never thought twice about it and and did it and uh the wmba has been so home for me and that ability when I got to the wmba what was most striking to me is that you could be yourself I could be myself because I wasn't a player and I wasn't forward-facing and the time that Megan is speaking to is when we were um you know uh opportunities for uh commercials and and promoting the league and go back and look at those photos of Sue and Diana and you know they look tough maybe Diana more like and drag um but uh you know it was like it's not who they are right and

53:30you can kind of see it is like what are we doing you know and they were still talking about changing the uniforms right so that they fit better right all this code um you know stuff that we were dealing with it's so exciting that the league you know now now we have stud buds I mean come on like now we have stud buds and everyone loves it and everyone loves it and that that's what I was going to say it was really cool societal norms of change right Megan you know like you've been such a big part of pushing you know that forward and uh being ourselves important in your bravery um and your time as an athlete uh and being able to show that you can you can you can have both and that you um that you are valuable um you know and and it's uh I think that that when that floodgate opened and now we have a league that everyone is so authentically themselves and how beautiful it is whether you are fam girl go ahead right right whether you're your style yeah okay fam fam gays you know and so it's such an incredible time and so to see it go from

54:32where it was in 2001 to where it is in 2026 makes me really really proud yeah yeah yeah you see you see in this span uh was there ever a moment where you're just like what am I doing this is like I feel like for the early builders of leagues whether it's players or coaches like I feel like there always just comes that moment where you're like yeah I've got two degrees and I'm making five dollars like this is this is tough like is there did you ever doubt that moment or like you just knew I'm in the dubby and this is where I'm supposed to be well not until 2003 so 2001 I was in Charlotte um and then 2002 well we had a we had a team um that's that picked up in the middle of the night and left the Charlotte Hornets left right and left the WMB18 behind and so we lost the team uh and then uh so as after 2002 so 2003 I go to Cleveland uh the Cleveland

55:34Rockers with Dan Hughes at the end of that season so um Lebron James was coming in uh to the NBA and Gordon Gunn was the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Rockers at that time and um he wanted to sell the team and so therefore that meant and I still don't understand uh it meant getting the books in order uh and so that meant getting rid of the WMB18 first and then they could then sell the you know sell the the NBA franchise uh and so in 2003 when that happened that was the second second team you know sort of in short order um and I remember uh kind of going all right this is this is kind of rough and every year was is the league gonna be here not just the team that I'm working for but is a league gonna be here and uh when I was in Charlotte not only you know was it sort of you know difficult in terms of support uh from the NBA franchise but it went so far as you couldn't be in the facility the practice facility at the same time as the NBA team so just

56:36marginalized to the nth degree uh and it just you know felt kind of you know it was demoralizing at times and uh and it could be hard to believe in but in 2003 uh when we lost the Cleveland Rockers I remember having a conversation with my older brother kind of going okay here we are again uh I'll be collecting unemployment for a little while uh and and that's what we did you know in the WMB8 you lost a team collect unemployment for a little while get your next up you don't know what's next and I remember kind of feeling like I didn't want to keep calling you know sort of with the same concerns it was like I wanted to be the last call it's kind of like when you know you guys are hearing out one of your good friends who's in a relationship that keep they keep calling you and telling you the things and you're like well yeah maybe maybe you should do something different or you know it was kind of like that I don't want to be the one that kept calling my brother saying geez here I am again uh and so I remember kind of going this is a crossroads and I had it's it's

57:37it's still very um you know vivid for me and I feel it that I love the WMB8 and I thought if it's going down I'm going down with it uh and I'm so glad that I had that that moment um and I had my brother gone Jesus Christ wrong you know can you go coach college again or something and all and uh and so um in my dad for many years you know wondered aloud when I was going to get a real job you know because it was like this summer I'd be away for six months come home for six months and my relationships that would be strained by it is like what are you doing you know uh and uh you know he he passed uh in 2008 so I never really kind of got to see this real job worked out uh you know you know pretty good for us oh well he would be incredibly proud and it is an incredible time for the W and certainly different from uh when you first started you've had some all time quotes over the course of your career um like truly all-timers I'm going to read you some of these

58:40quotes just in a little rapid fire section and you're just going to tell me if you would change anything or not which I'm guessing I'm going to get some more not okay um we should have done it for the gaze I would absolutely not change anything what was funny well what what was funny was that was my attempt it I don't handle losses very well uh and you know we lost and I I have been I've been really really focused on trying to be more graceful after losses and uh I've gone really good I did better that was my that was my one liner that was my attempt at levity bringing levity to the situation uh and I really didn't think much about it when I said it because when you're in media sessions I'm with media people that I see all the time I still haven't grasped the viral nature of maybe that's something like that could you know it could happen so um yeah I don't have any

59:42regrets and then like I think it was two days later you said we got our lick back for the gaze yeah so you did bring it back I did I did um conflating a couple of things there I guess but but moving on passing my t-boat for all time wins in the WNBA uh sorry Mike we've had a lot of great battles wait uh well same thing was very genuine very genuine uh you're like we have and I won most of them yeah no no I mean he was he was he was such a uh a big part of my career in our relationship through the years and learned a lot from Mike and he was such a supporter of mine and so um I don't know what else do you say I mean like he was happy for me and I said I'll be happy for the next person I love that um I do always appreciate your willingness and ability really to to mostly keep up with the times quote I ate all the way down all time er oh lord uh you're with it I was with it um yeah I

1:00:52mean I've had you know whether it's Oliver didn't teach me the all the way down he gets embarrassed sometimes is like mom oh god mom uh but he learned about the clock it thing with Oliver you know clock it clock that tea yeah right yeah yeah so yeah so he's taught me a lot which I really appreciate helps keep me current he's being raised by the W also so yes yes yes yes a big a man yes he yes okay I'm gonna try out a new um segment game thing we're gonna see how it goes it's called mommy daddy baby um oh forgive me but we're just gonna be strick sticking strictly to heteronormativity for the sake of the game you guys will get it um what percentage of the below makes up Cheryl and I'm gonna give the definitions of each mommy is like emotional caretaker mental load carrier nurture like she's doing it all daddy protector enforcer self-insured caring heavy things like what's he actually doing though you know like sometimes you're like

1:01:57what's going on and then baby baby is just carefree pampered not lifting a finger having an absolute ball I'm 40% daddy 40% baby sometimes 90 and 20% mommy so you know I'm like well really really baby daddy is where I'm at to give reference what was mommy again mommy is emotional caretaker mental load carrier nurture like she's she's doing it all she's got the ticker in her head my wife is here so I'm kind of looking what's the answer I think baby like zero um yeah well no Carly saying no it's not the right answer maybe 10 a little bit a little bit baby maybe 30 60 90 or 30 60 10 30% baby 60 present daddy 30 mommy 30 mommy 60 no Carly that's wrong and it's oh god this is so hard

1:02:57it's just so hard who am I it is a funny you're definitely some daddy I am some daddy I'm just gotta be 60 yeah that's why I was thinking 60 yeah that's why I went with a 30 30 mommy 6 10 baby yeah okay nice you gotta get that baby up oh yeah yeah yeah everybody's gotta get the baby up I feel like the baby is the best part of it I'm like will I'm just here yeah okay one final question who should I ask why are you like this to next oh wow why are you like this next um well I need some time on that one geez okay anybody help phone a friend yeah maybe Courtney who Courtney might be a good one that's she's actually live live my Olivia might be a good one living my yeah yeah those those are good ones you know in my in my orbit um

1:03:59Courtney's really an interesting one yeah I would love to know I should like this hey and when if you if you choose to to go that route back here you need to have the picture of her in high school actually even her her when she was drafted like it's gonna be very confusing very confusing she did not know who she was yeah yeah we've all been there and they are tough pullback photos indeed Cheryl thank you so much for joining me thank you thank you guys thank you everyone for being here um don't forget to listen to why are you like this thank you everybody for coming appreciate it that's it for this episode everybody our show is produced by Nashat Kuroa Art Chung Courtney Steth Christine Williams Brandon McFarlane McKenzie Fifth Patrick and Jessica Dolan why are you like this is produced in partnership with box media thanks for listening

1:05:01to this special episode of why are you like this with Megan Rapino we'll be back with a new episode of on with Cara Swisher on Monday