Who TF Are These Women?

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1:11Hey, I'm Kate Lindsay and you're listening to ICYMI or in case you missed it. Slates podcast about internet culture and we are once again joined by writer, trend analyzer, expert Kyle Raymond Fitzpatrick. Welcome Kyle. I think so having me again. Is trend analyzer expert is that the official title you go by? When I came out of the trend factory, that was what they gave me. So that is what I go with. So like you're right on. And if you are in New York next week, you can come watch myself and Kyle live in conversation for his podcast, Hip Replacement. I will put the link to that in the show notes. But more importantly, there's something that we need to talk about. And I think I have like against your will, made you the person I talk out about this. Okay. You already know it's come. I'll take it. I'll take it. Which is of course the last time we had you on, I think I opened with the disappearance of the

2:12YouTuber Zoella or Zoysug. At that point, it had been around six months since she had posted anywhere online. It has now been eight months and she is still missing. And I never in my life would I have dreamed that I'd be seeing you again and still knows ever. That's it. And if that's it. It is a well-off free world. Right. I mean, we thought that she would we talked about this, but like she's not come back. Like I'm kind of at this point. It's like I appreciate the commitment. You stay offline. Don't come back. We're good. We were not we're good. We miss you. But you are good. We have made our peace. We hope you're well. Well, so I did some digging. And by digging, I mean, googling because I don't know if you've heard there has been some some sleuthing being done to try and figure out like what the hell is going on. So we did have our first public sighting last month. They didn't post but paparazzi took pictures of them. That's how urgent this has become in the UK, which is like if you are a watcher of Zoella, you know how much

3:17she absolutely hates that. Like she doesn't really talk about it, but she is so like she would she would absolutely hate that. And so I do feel bad that it's gotten to the level that she's being popped. But then the other rumor, unconfirmed, but people were looking at like records, which is crazy. Like leave this woman alone, but they found that there's some sort of land dispute happening between her and her neighbors about a donkey sanctuary. This is all alleged, but it was, you know, people have found the paperwork. And I mean, that wouldn't keep me offline, but you know, it sounds like maybe they have other passions going on that they're doing. And also this donkey sanctuary thing could be fake news. I'll just do that. But that could be her next era. But there's been, you know, some disputes over the land allegedly. And so maybe that's what's like she can't come back until she has donkeys to show us. Right. And so she has like her whole donkey brand, like has her whole like farm where she can sell you like donkey butter or whatever. But I even if

4:19that's not true, I do appreciate it. And I think that this is probably what people are like glomming on to is this because we haven't had an update or a lore drop in months. This is the story that people have made up in her absence. Like I could see it. We could all see her having a donkey farm. And like that is I think why it's just like this is unconfirmed. Probably another zo has this name and is doing this. But we all agree in our imagination. That's what she's doing. She's going to be great in a farm. Her family will be amazing. Right. That's such a good point. And like you she should be proud of the brand she built that no one's like oh she they're divorced or something bad happened like no because she's married to another youtuber Alfie Daze who's similarly been like pretty spotty about posting. No one is like oh they must have broken up. And like imagine being a couple where you disappear and everyone's still certain you're still happy and love. That's a beautiful feat. And it's crazy that it's like it must be donkeys then. Yeah. Gotta be this donkey thing. It's on one hand it is like okay this continues her narrative in a way

5:24that makes complete sense. But then it's also that projection of fantasy of like well if I was her I would have a donkey farm and I would be offline and have the best life ever. And it's like either way she wins. Yes. Crucially if I were her I similarly would be like why am I why am I online anymore. I don't need to I can sit with donkeys. Yeah. And you know I think about like like maybe the reason that I am clinging to the well is so hard is because she is this I mean familiar long time creator like I feel her absence because I have spent so much time with her online. Otherwise without these sort of staple creators I am learning about like a new person or feud every day. So there is Alex. There is another Alex spelled with an eye. There is a person named Stella Lefty. We've decided to get to the bottom of this today. When we come back a who's who of the creators currently making headlines and why.

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8:35And we're back. And so today's episode is kind of inspired by a tweet I've absolutely referenced on this podcast before. And it just feels really apt for how it feels to kind of be scrolling my for you page right now, which is a tweet that reads, I'm 50, all celebrity news looks like this. Curtains for Zoucia. Case smog and batboy caught flipping a grunt. And it was actually very funny because I was talking to our studio producer when I was getting set up and I was like, oh, have you heard of Alex Earl who we're about to talk about? And he was like, no, and then he went, like, this is very Curtains for Zoucia. And I'm like, that's exactly what this is about, like that tweet of like, you're just hearing these names everywhere. It feels like everyone else knows them because they're being reported on. But you might be someone who is like, I honestly have no idea. And at this point, I'm too scared to find out. That's why we're here. Absolutely. Absolutely. This sort of ambient celebrity that's sort of constantly haunting us and we know everything

9:37and nothing about them. Somehow at the same time. No, truly. And the everything and nothing, that's a good way to describe who we're about to talk about because we're going to be breaking down sort of two people in particular, two sagas, three people, two sagas. So we'll just start with the Zoucia. I'm just going to use that to refer to this that it's been going on for the longest, which is Alex versus Alex, crucially, Alex within e versus Alex within i, which this is great for an audio format because there's no way you're going to be able to tell, but I'll do my best to, to differentiate. And so most recently Alex within i Alex Earl, her reality show Earl Meets World just dropped on Netflix. How have you watched? I've watched clips. I've read reviews. I've seen reactions. None of them are that captivating if you will. And it's not that because that's boring about she's boring, that is debatable. I will leave my opinion out of this for the moment. But like it is very much a sort of statement of like, well, what what is reality television now?

10:39Who is a reality star? What is actually going on? Like, why does this person who basically is already living a reality show now has one? What do you gain from that? If you gain anything, and it seems like it's just like, why are what's the point? And it it seems like to me at least, what comes to mind for me is a sort of recycling of something that happened in the early 2020s, was I forget the name of the show, but when the D'Amelio's had a show. Oh, yes, I actually watched the D'Amelio reality show for some reason. I am like, heavily invested in the happiness and success of Charlie D'Amelio, who is sort of the reason the family is famous. But yes, no, it was similarly quite boring. And that was like a big deal. And it was like, oh, well, they're going to be the next big thing. And like, now we know that didn't come true. And I remember at the time, didn't happen. I remember working in that space at the time and being like, oh, they have, they have no personality. There is no like draw like the family just seems like they're all like not conning, but like they are hustling something out. And like, this is an extension of like

11:41strike ball. The iron's hot granted that I can get along with is like, okay, this is going to disappear. So I got to make it work now. But they were a bit more like, well, we're the biggest thing in the world. So we're going to capitalize. And it's just like, that's not going to happen. So it seems like it's an extension of this. No, that was exactly my thought. I literally wrote like a point like down on my notes, like the concept of influencers with a reality show because these creators get popular because they are already giving us this like unfiltered like view into their lives. And it's, I'm like, what is the purpose of a reality show because that is actually a more of a remove than we are, they already give us. And it's like, no one wants to be less involved. I know one is tuning in because they're like, I actually want to be further away. I want the camera to be further away. I mean, it goes into that the thing that's happened. Well, it's funny. Okay, let's say a few things. Is that like first celebrities, some of them, yes, they do reality shows. By and large, if you are celebrity now, you have these sort of vanity documentary, which is not exactly real is a performed truth. There is no scrutiny. There is no

12:45level of depth involved. It is just a commercial for you and whatever you do and the hopes that you keep tuning into their movies or music or whatever. Versus it seems like this is definitely now the domain reality television. That is the domain of the always online, the influencer, the sort of like quasi known quasi not. The difference being is like exactly to your point is that like someone like an Alex Earl has everything out there or at least like that is the projection and the understanding is that like she is someone who's highly visible. I know everything get ready with me like all this stuff. And when you have say, and I'm surprised no one has done this and if this has happened, please let us know is like, she wouldn't be the person to do this. Let me let me clarify. But like, I'm surprised there hasn't been someone who has done the like, you know everything about me online. And I'm going to make a reality show me a reality show. It's not necessarily vulnerable, but it's like I'm going to get a I'm going to go to the gynecologist or get a colonel superior like do these really intimate things that are like somebody could really break that format and like have a

13:50big meta moment where it was like, well, you wanted to see everything. So I am taking you on my like medical journey, whatever that may be and like getting really intimate like that is what this format is then begging these people to do and maybe what audiences want, but you're not going to get that. You're just going to get sort of like icing on a cake that already is like covered in butter cream. Like it's slathered. Like what else do you want? Do you know who has taken us to a gynecologist appointment with them? Who? Zoella? Oh, there you go. I she did like a thing for like a pop smear and encouraging encouraging women in the UK to because they have slightly different guidelines over there. Um, I was like, I'm sorry, we need her now more than ever. Um, but uh, but yeah, so let's talk about who this person is because I would say I watched the first episode and you know, similarly, I was not super compelled. They spend like the first 10 minutes driving a U-haul around and they really milk that out. But you know, to each their own, I think though for people who are not, you know, stands of hers, which are there are many, you're probably tuning in because you

14:54want to hear you're more removed because you want to hear more about the headlines that Alex has been making, which is in tandem with Alex with an e Alex Cooper. So let's break down with the difference between these two women. That's crucial. Um, but then why why they're connected. So Alex Cooper, we've definitely talked about her on the show multiple times before, especially in our bar stool episode with Sachi recently. But um, she is the solo host of a podcast called Call Her Daddy and she also has her own podcast network called Unwell. She has collected a number of creators and given them podcasts on that network. So another person we've mentioned before is Halle Bacheldur. Um, Owen Thiel, who is currently starring in adults, he's been like an internet person for a while and one Alex Earl, her podcast was called Hot Mess. I say was because of what we will get to, but Alex Earl, she is previously just she started posting on TikTok freshman year of college and her whole brand was like party girl. I would say, you know, over time that she left that brand

16:00behind. She's 25 now, which they say so many times in the reality show, uh, to be like, isn't it crazy how young and famous she is? It's like, well, everyone's young and famous now. So, um, but I really actually I have no negative feelings towards Alex Earl. She's not the I would say she's just like a hot boring girl, which is out of legal. Do you have any feelings? Like, is it just a true neutral or is it like, I kind of do like, or is it like, does it have, is there anything beyond neutral? You know, um, I mean her content's not for me. I don't find her life aspirational. I really try not to be anti-influencer and I like to like some people's annoyance. I know, but it's like, I, I respect the hustle. I think like what you're probably getting up to is like, she is a classic capital I influencer. And I think that is not necessarily a dying breed, but like that is such a specific brand and like you kind of have to be like, well, I like being advertised to you. And it's like, well, I don't, unless I don't want to see the people. But like, I think that they maybe have

17:04their utility. They have the people who love them. But like, I think what what I'm hearing at least is that this is someone who, you were literally doing therapy on me when I'm hearing you say, what I'm hearing you say is that like, this is someone who's whole thing or like brand or genre. It doesn't necessarily bring me joy. And that's okay. And but like, it's just that's not my journey. Alex and her community take that journey. Yeah, exactly. Because I am like, you know, she has captured a really large audience. Obviously, she's being handed this, uh, Netflix show. And there are people watching it because they just want to keep consuming more content about their, their favorite creator. And I think she is for a certain type of person, an aspirational follow. Because you know, she's, obviously, she's like very gourd, like conventionally attractive gourd to skinny blonde hair. Like, and you know, seems to be somewhat self aware. But she's also kind of despite her sort of entry on to TikTok as kind of like this party girl. She's kind of somewhat

18:06family friendly now. Like because she just, I mean, she goes to parties. So when I say family friendly, friendly, I mean, like, it's okay if you're high schooler watches, but you know, yeah, yeah. Well, like 2020 is family friendly, which I think is a very fascinating thing that we're, we're discovering now is like, yeah, like you can watch her be actually be drunk at the party. That's still family friendly somehow. Right. Yeah. Like I don't think that like any parent unless they are truly actually conservative, maybe not like performative conservative, whatever, the whole other thing, they would be like no one would care. Right. Yeah. She's just, she has drunk, she dances, she and she gets drunk and she's with her sister. Like her family, one thing I, it did learn is just how close her family is. And I should note, there's a really interesting tip with the drops for anyone who was aware of the gossip back in sort of the late 2000s, early 2010s, which is her Alex Earl's dad is now married to a woman named Ashley Earl, but her maiden name is Ashley Dupree. You might know her name for being all over the tabloids in 2008,

19:12itch because she is one of Ashley Dupree's early jobs when she was paid to go on dates with men, one of these men being then governor of New York, Elliott Spitzer and sort of the reveal of this and of her role in it led to his resignation. And so she kind of entered onto the scene in this cloud of scandal. And then I think a lot of people maybe just like moved on and kind of forgot, turns out in that time she was getting married to Alex Earl's dad. And they're very open about also though it was infidelity on her dad's part. But now this whole family including, you know, Ashley and then Alex's biological mom and her dad, they all hang out now. So like that's a really big message of the documentary, but that's just some weird side Lorda mentioned. But how do Alex and Alex E and I collide? So I think when Alex Cooper launched Unwell, her podcast network, she very much positioned herself as like, I'm going to pluck the next generation of Mee's and Alex Earl, I mean to a tee fit that mold she was younger, she bet she was you know blonde tall party girl.

20:19Same name with different letter. Yes, like this was supposed to be like a generational mentor, mentee relationship. So Alex Earl does get this podcast on Unwell, like he said hot mess party girl. And then sort of people noticed, because I remember seeing this rumblings that like first she kind of wasn't posting the podcast anymore. And then it seemed like the two weren't really interacting Alex and Alex. And in February 2025, it was variety who revealed that Alex with an eyes podcast had been like quote quietly dropped by the Unwell network. And from this, obviously, there's like a few rumors cat fight what happened? Why is it gone? And we didn't really get anything concrete about like their relationship and what went wrong. And I would this isn't concrete by any means, but we didn't even really hear them address it until two months later Alex Cooper posted this video out of nowhere on TikTok. Hey guys, you guys know I don't usually address this kind of stuff

21:23because it feels like a waste of time and honestly it's embarrassing to participate in this. But I am obviously seeing the videos I'm getting tagged, I see the DMs, I see the comments. So at this point, it just feels long overdue. Alex Earl, hey girl, the passive aggressive reposts and the likes and the commenting on things. I gotta call you out here. You're gonna need to get specific and just say what you gotta say about me. So I remember that drop. I do think we talked about it on the podcast. And I remember at the time I was like publicity stunt like this is so out of nowhere. Something's going on. And you know, I'm such a sort of admirable woman that I'm coming on here now to say I'm wrong. It seems it seems that this wasn't actual rift between them.

22:28And I think a lot of people like I was saying we're tuning into this reality show because it promised to finally give us Alex with an eye side of the story. So we're gonna play a clip of when she finally spills the long awaited tea. The first voice you hear is her dad who is also her manager. They've now coined a new term in the sort of chirons of the show is dadadjur, which I don't I have not heard as much. Doesn't roll up the tongue the same, but he is who kicks off this clip. They worked together for a year, a year and a half whatever it was. And it was not a great working relationship. It was constantly like thing after thing working together that like wasn't. And like they were a startup company at the time so things weren't gonna go great, but like there was just constantly issues or like it just wasn't run properly. And it's right and show her, you know, how to put together a show and give her all the resources to produce and develop a great show. We knew what they promised us and then when they came in way below what they promised us,

23:31we were kind of like, I guess this is I guess this is how you produce a podcast. You sit on your bed with a camera that they sent you and you film it yourself. There's no production. As other friends have due podcasts that they're actually given real resources to produce a show. They have a producer. They have people that are helping them film and set up lighting and things like that. Like they took then then once we worked with them again because I felt pressured and to sign in with them again. So I did. They took they said, okay hire your own people for the show. We're taking everyone off. They didn't invite me to events. They didn't talk to me. They didn't come up to meetings anymore. Like it was just I'm like, why am I paying you to do something I'm not even happy doing and you're not even giving me any support. I didn't realize things were going wrong because I was like obsessed with her. All right. So Kyle, what do you make of this absolutely inferoling bombshell? I mean, I actually did not hear that clip. But like the reactions that I

24:31had read and like the people I see on TikTok talking about it was that like you don't really get a sort of satisfying resolution. And like in hearing these clips and thank you for sharing that with all of us. It's two things. It's like on one hand, it's like this is this is just business and like I understand if say out with an e-couper is doing business in a way that might be annoying or a professional or start a B or whatever you want to call it. Like I understand what that's valid, but also is that a like a drama we can sink our teeth into. Is that something to build a show around? Absolutely not. Like that is like that is something where it's like, oh, I quit the job because like I didn't like my schedule versus oh, I got a huge fight with my manager and they tried to punch and I had to call the cops like that is a great story. And then like this gets into the other side of it, which I think is it goes back to you know why here, why reality show why all this, whatever, whatever is like it's one thing in the real housewives if the two people are in the same room and they

25:33hash it out together or like you see the drama, you see the fight, you see the claw, you see whatever or on drag race or in any of these reality shows where you put those two energies in a room to hash it out. This is instead like one person or a group of people on one side of the table and no one is responsible. They're just recounting something. You're not getting the drama. It is very much like the the you know writing school MFA adage of like you know showdown tell. I'm like this is not their tell. Like it's like we are telling you what happened. And number one, not that exciting you're interesting. And number two, we're not even delivering it in a way that is satisfying your interesting like they didn't even like get up and play out it like the data are being like I'm going to pretend to be Alex like show us clips like yeah something like give and I think that there's some element of like showing receipts but also like the receipts are also like not that satisfying either. But like that is like this is neither. Not that this is a complete nothing burger.

26:34I think it is something but I think probably plays more into I think with the vanity fair story from this year about unwell sort of running a business that is maybe a little bit questionable but that's even then I was like yeah this is like eight out of ten businesses. Yeah and she you know her kind of issues with like you mentioned the vanity fair piece like I think any like punch this would have had was kind of beat by that vanity fair article which is like oh okay so it sounds like your experience tracks which sucks like it sucks that she had a hard time there. But ultimately it just seems to be a clash of working styles because another sort of anecdote she shares that I just think is emblematic of despite how similar and how much it seems like these two should go together they're actually quite different which is that there was like an interview when Alex with an eye like joined unwell it was like a live Q&A Alex Cooper asking Alex Earl questions and I guess Alex Cooper had given Alex Earl they drank before you know Alex Earl describes it as

27:38gave me a lot of alcohol and then it's a proceeded to ask her very raunchy call her daddy like OG call her daddy style questions about like sex and Alex Earl says that she was really uncomfortable with at the time but was drunk so she answered and you know now doesn't like the idea that that is that interview is out there for people to watch and she specifically says like one day her kids might watch and so again we get this sort of like family friendly tint to her that I think is just yeah it was not a good fit not a good fit but it also like it's yeah this is someone who on both sides like they're both playing that's like that's obviously why Alex with an e sort of took her on was because of that sort of like kind of vulnerability and loose canonist but then on the flip side Alex with an i is trying to evolve but not really from that in a way that sort of like seems a bit like revisionist history honest I mean not to not to say anything to to say that her opinion

28:40or her her feelings of what happened don't matter they do but it does seem very convenient to couch all of this we're like well this is all about but it's also like maybe those questions were out of line but that is the brand that you had set up and it seemed very much on brand and I'm sure maybe they didn't talk about the specific questions but with a podcast called what was it hot mess like yeah okay like this is you you invited that line you invited that and like things like again like the Kardashians like she is sort of maybe in real time trying to pivot herself in a direction maybe to be more family friendly maybe to be more whatever grown up etc etc but it just like it doesn't seem like it is totally congealing or totally authentic because again like with that like if you really wanted to take that high road and I don't know that you need to this little reality show and you are an influencer is like invoke that vanity fair story bring that and like go through and annotate you could have had a moment like well let me try to get in touch with this journalist and let me try to give my side of the story because like

29:42that would have been very valuable that would have sort of proved you know oh I'm actually the capital B BW businesswoman like I can do this I can sort of like show that I have this sort of gumption that she saw in me but I have even more yeah yeah yeah the fact that it was just really play up this yeah yeah but the fact that it was so resigned to sort of like well first off I'm not working with that data jerk because he's not good at his job number two this is not exactly a talent that has a lot more going for and again not that that is wrong or bad not that you need to be more but like again the reality shows reveals limits and I think we that became very clear yeah I wrote sort of now that the mystery has been answered how do we feel and what I wrote for myself is hot people are boring but I wish them the best exactly exactly it's like you know I it's not for me and I guess I end up sending it is not for me that's okay not for me we back with more of my conversation with Kyle after this quick break

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32:01don't use a allergic to sky rizzy serious allergic reactions increased infections or lower ability to fight that may occur before treatment get checked for infections and tuberculosis tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines thanks to sky rizzy there's nothing like clear skin and better movement and that means everything ask your doctor about sky rizzy sky rizzy calm for call 1866 sky rizzy to learn more all right on to our next usha this is gen z musician Stella lefty let's hear her you know her firm on a pitch to she's another sticks and I saw your mom she forgot that I exist did it half my fault all right no sorry my bad that's not Stella lefty wrong clip let's play all right

33:08now this is still lefty totally different ready so it's possible you also may have just heard the similarities in the songs I just played so that first one is stick season by Noah con and the song the actual cell lefty song that I played is called Boston and the reason we're talking about her and the reason you might have been hearing her name is because she has been accused of plagiarizing a number of popular songs but the first thing that kicked this off is the similarities between Boston and stick season but before we talk about that controversy well first off before we were like we need you to come on here and help explain this was Stella lefty in your brain at all yes and no and like a four few reasons one of which I don't really want to get into right now because I think we are going to go there is that like she had sort of been floating around

34:11as just sort of like well this person has a song and somehow it's big but I haven't heard it so like kind of like the Ella Langley shoes and taxes type thing yes I was going to say that's the closest comparison yes but I think that unlike somehow unlike Ella Stella Stella Ella wow Stella Alex and Alex all over again yeah Ella is a little bit closer to the surface of internet at least is that like she sort of has come out of tiktok sound usage but also tiktok in Twitter conversations where I think I probably saw her image a lot of just like who is this person very much that and or like I guess the song is doing well but like nobody seemed to really be like sinking their teeth into it in a similar way to Ella but I think she actually does probably clearly with the amount of weeks she's been at the top of the charts like is resonating with someone somewhere in more places and not all mine I think that that has sort of evolved into people being like oh well like this person is crossing over who what where when how and that has evolved

35:13into more conversation like seen about her which she's one of those people where it's like you know everything I've learned about her is against my will but like she is stuck with me unfortunately because she checks a lot of my like personal brain SEO boxes of like I'm gonna hold on this for later because like there's something in my mind where I'm going to do something with this at some point and like she she fits this to a tee yes yeah so Stella lefty for other people who may only be ambiently aware of her so she is 24 and a crucial detail about her which might answer any follow-up questions that would have about why she's famous why is she in front of me is that she is the daughter of billionaire Eric Paul Lifkovsky which is I think why she shortened it to lefty but he co-founded Groupon I would say that's like the biggest thing now he runs an AI company I think I saw his net worth was around like six billion so this is netbo baby not even a capital N like all capital letters like that is like the richest of the rich and so like you

36:19vaguely aware of her in the background but she's keeps popping back up not because of people enjoying her music but of people saying wait this song sounds exactly like this other song so the first one is stick season by Noah Con but that is not the only one they're actually now a total of five plagiarism allegations against her five I thought there's only four geez they keep coming no yeah so one one is a little bit more up in the air but um there are so the one I guess the one the one that was really funny to me that I saw after the Noah Con one is that her song misery sounds like a million dreams from the greatest showman which is just such a funny thing to accidentally or on purpose sound like

37:24it's like oh fuck accidentally wrote a showtune um but uh I just like how does that happen but then another one her song seven eleven sounds a lot like a teenage dirt bag and then these ones I wasn't aware of yet but there is a song she has called why wouldn't we people compare it to Blake shelton's I'll name the dogs which is like it's so funny I don't know what that song is to be like wait yeah but sure another other one is um so they're also saying that same song sounds a little bit like Raylin's god-made girls I'd listen not my culture but um then the the the final sort of allegation that's out there is that it's all off the song somewhere you remind contain similarities to the chick's song from 1998 there's your treble so that's quite a lot and it's you know we really just did an episode on how the accusation of the moment the weapon of choice at the moment in our culture is saying that someone didn't produce or write the thing that

38:24they say they did um whether that's AI or plagiarism and so I'm not necessarily surprised this is happening but I think well another element that makes the the and then you kind of pointed this that she is she is of tiktok um because not only has she come out with these songs people are hearing the similarities but then they can easily go back through her digital footprint uh and see that she is in fact posted covers of a number of these songs so there is teenage dirtbag that she's done a cover of but then the one I want to play is important because Vandy Fair had asked her about these sort of stick season similarities and she said emphatically when I was writing the song I wasn't thinking about Noah Khan and this was the sentence funny I was literally thinking about nothing at all when I wrote it as one does when they're writing a romantic ballad but she goes I don't want to step on it was toast I'm fine if this sounds like that whatever all good and so

39:25then someone on tiktok posted this clip reacting to that quote this is so funny to me because if you go to her account you will find stick season after stick season after stick season cover please just watch and i love her mom and i love her mom it's just she and i love her mom but it's a season of the sticks and that stick seasons but still a style so and i love her mom it's a season okay i actually bought a guitar today so this is like kind of the perfect time to do this song so that that is a lot a lot of times to cover the same song on your on your tiktok it is and like also like i it's one thing if it's just like this singing but like so much self-awareness that i am Stella i'm singing the song and like you totally be like i've ever heard it is like all right yeah it's like no i was thinking about nothing i was head empty writing a song and so this has escalated to the point that so apparently Noah Khan's people did reach out and we're like hey this sounds like stick season so

40:30he is now credited similarly the songwriters who are behind the chick song there's your trouble they've now been credited so it's it's these aren't necessarily baseless which i do think is what's causing people to just keep finding more but those two at least for sure have been acknowledged as like okay t is what they're saying they're going that's t we did it so it's it's all in very interesting something this is this is what i've heard mostly about her is the billionaire and a snapo etc which was part of this and like you know the thing that comes to mind first is like you know what's worse being accused of AI or being accused of plagiarizing and like i think at this point probably AI is worse like i think you know this summer as well like the the phoenix lexan rubbers like that whole thing is this AI is it's not that was a whole saga it's sort of i actually don't know if it really tank this on but it definitely put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth you listen to it and you're like this doesn't sound real but like people won't with it um but the thing

41:30with her is that like this is up this behavior is of a kind it sort of like makes sense in the larger framing of like if she was just somebody who was a serial plagiarizer like that's bad whatever but she would literally be gone but like the thing that is so interesting is that like this if we want to get big brain which unfortunately i always sort of walking to this is that like it's parodying the behavior and the the ways in which say billionaires get a hat is that like it's via exploitation it's via taking advantage of other people by you know doing bad things and sort of paying it away and like it's unsurprising to me that this is that sort of her model whether she did that intentionally or not you probably did not do it intentionally but she has the wherewithal and the means to pay it off and because like Noah Cajon and the chicks and whomever have literally now have their names on it means yes that is true this is a fact it is in one way or another

42:35plagiarized and you are now getting paid and compensated because you figured it out and because i can afford to pay you to do that which like again any other normal person they would be like devastating by this they would be sued into the ground and we would not hear from them again or it wouldn't matter because they are nobody and Noah Cajon isn't going to pay them any money because the profits are so high on both ends it's like it it does matter that i think is like the the sort of what gets people about this and what gets me about this is that being afforded to fail so flagrantly and to sort of really do things that are so you know ethically and morally wrong and still be rewarded like that is so of the moment and i think that is not necessarily why she is successful i do think kind of like the Alex with an i both Alex is actually is that sort of like infamy and like soft i'm a bad person thing in this economy really does propel you and like it really does bring you forward in a similar way and i've talked this a few

43:39times i think is like that i'm forgetting his name damn the the guy who faked being a san francisco 49er to con women out of money yes i haven't we haven't dove into this on the podcast because but it's crazy yeah it's a crazy story but like that per that guy 100% once he is free or whatever i don't know where he stands now he will become like a reality star he will become a slowdown in summer guard right kind of like george santo's a little bit where it's like oh yeah george santo's exactly the george santo's the sort of i think they're they're sort of a dime it doesn't trump even that Jeremy meeks from the 2000s like the hot mug shot then becoming an actual like model as a result of that it's so interesting and like i don't we have as a culture as the world have not unpacked this but like that infamy that exploitation sells now and like that's so unfortunate and like it it sort of trickles down from the top is that like you know i am successful because i did it all myself but like

44:42that's not true you took advantage of xyz and like again be a plagiarism or a i the result is the same the feeling is the same yeah yeah i think people have been so quick to jump on this and like rightfully so but i think there's a there's a real i think the reason they're digging up so many songs is because this confirms a skepticism that i think most people have when they see the daughter of a billionaire or you know the son of a billionaire like it could be anyone you know someone someone a nepot baby is like we are default is they don't deserve this like they would get the success whether they were talented or not and so there is i think like a sense of justice in finding and like proving that to be true of like or like in their mind of saying like seed like these are all ripoffs but this person is basically getting handed the success um because i think i think one of the biggest uses of tiktok has been like class awareness like i don't like now that we're all in the same place that like the the idea of being able to be exposed to all levels of privilege but also

45:42all levels of like poverty and in between um that's just really opened our eyes and so yeah you're just and that this is not like a woe is the daughter of billionaires but it's like that is not an environment to become a supported artist even if you were not constantly stepping on rakes that say plagiarism and hitting yourself in the head and it's also like you know it's very interesting that she did choose country and like she isn't of say the country she's not from natural she's from Chicago and via LA so it's like it really to me it also says like well this in a in a Taylor Swift way too has a sort of similar backstory in a way but maybe not no Taylor Swift is originally from like not far from where i was in Pennsylvania and there's no country accents there total exactly but like it is it's such a performed it's a performance we know that most performers are but like it sort of shows where that sort of mentioned what pop actually is now and because if it's easier to buy and be authentic in country then in pop music pop music is so manufactured

46:47and that would have been a sort of closer like approximation of like okay well you're not real this is all fake and like in some ways like that's even better because like you're just admitting the truth versus in country it is all a form of drag and like that is an easier way to get mass appeal and like get it's to get mass appeal in the same way that say like a post-millon does wrap or that like a Brody Jenner does electronic music it is a way to sort of like you do a little bit you get a lot out of it and you can sort of use it as a big stepping stone to wherever well yeah and i i want to go look at her comments because i was like how detrimental has this scandal been and it's really interesting because i mean it's half and half people who are only commenting about the plagiarism allegations and kind of trolling her but then there's an other half that's really earnest like posting things like your tickets sold out so quick i couldn't get one like like really genuine fans and so i feel like no it's just the same the same way that there is to me it's like

47:55i'm just as perplexed by the person upset that cello lefty's concert is sold out it's like i am the person genuinely tuning into like Earl meets world i'm like who are you like is it the same and like what is the joy you're getting from this because i do believe like if it brings you joy that's great but i hate that it's from like a really sanitized either in the case of like Alex Earl like this most like sanitize nothing of content or two a billionaires daughter look i don't mean this in a rude way but like i do think that there is you know that quote-unquote silent majority who are deeply entertained by the most inane derivative whatever like it's so safe it's so sanitized that i think that it's a comfort in maybe a time where it is very things are very disruptive and unstable but like these people who i would assume are enjoying this content are not say liberal counterculture like no like this is this is what the mainstream is and like that

48:56i think seeking of the comfort and nothing is so interesting that like everything in your life is just ambient because like this plays into that sort of like ambient television this music that all sounds the same like there is like it is the opposite of sandpaper maybe it's cling wrap i don't know but like it's this this feeling of escapism via nothing it's not even like you're going anywhere it's just i want to be neutral too like i want to become nothing and like it's a fascinating thing because like obviously when you become nothing like you are anybody can paint over you and like that i think is such a good symptom and a good representation of a lot of issues in culture now is that there's just such an ambivalence or just like you make the decision for me i have no thoughts and it's like we do need to have an opinion because i need to think yeah you mean you to thought because like sure when it comes to dinner and you just

49:56scroll for an hour on door dash and then pick whatever that doesn't matter but when it comes to well a data center is moving in next door or whatever like you do need to do something and like yeah amazon prime brain for entertainment okay that's the show thank you so much to Kyle for joining us we'll be back in your feet on wednesdays have definitely subscribe that way you never miss an episode leave us a rating and a review and apple or Spotify and tell your friends about us to see all the visuals references of today's episode you can follow us on instagram i see ymi underscore pod and you can always drop us a note at i see ymi at slate.com i see ymi is produced by viquitly berry and meet katlinsie dezy razzario is our senior supervising producer mea lobelle is late executive producer of podcast in hilary fri is late editor in chief c1line or at zoella's donkey sanctuary you

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