Who Gets To Decide What Counts As Evidence with Dr Robert Hoffman

0:00Willow Creek Springs presents Healthy Living with your host Joe Grumbine Well, hello, and welcome to the Healthy Living podcast. I'm your host Joe Grumbine and today we have back with us Dr. Robert M. Hoffman Robert, welcome back. How are you doing today? Always a pleasure to be on well, you know I have a lot of guests on this show and some guests I have back over and again But it's always a treat to speak with you. You've got this amazing wealth of information every time I talk to you You've just learned new things and I Sell to meet people who learn as much as you do as fast as you do Thank you, Joe. Have you always? Yeah, I'm like a steam shovel. Showing in Have you always been that way? I know I have when I was a little kid I don't know I learned to read when I was like four years old and I remember

1:03Our parents had these get me these books called tell me why and it was these big fat books or two of them and they Explain how everything worked from You know photosynthesis to internal combustion engines and I just read and read and read and read and I just loved All that information and then that was back in the days when you know if you were doing all right you had a an encyclopedia set and My parents I remember when the guy came over to our house. I don't know. It's probably like I don't know 1971 or 1972 something like that and my parents purchased a world book in cyclopedia and I read that thing cover to cover a to see every every Volume and every year there'd be a new volume that would update it called the yearbook. I couldn't wait to get that And I loved it. You know, it's I have a platonic is set here all right

2:08You know, it's kind of a treasure I mean, they now are so lazy. We just look in Wikipedia, but yeah The pleasure of opening those books and Great and looking up something. It was just wonderful. You know when When I started to study herbal medicine I was in my early 20s It was probably like 1985 or 18 1986 something like that and I had a lifetime of lung disease I was always fighting these allergies and getting shots and Treatments and you know waking up at two in the morning not being able to breathe going to the emergency room getting pump full of adrenaline and on these Nebulizer things it was horrible Finally, I was like, you know, maybe there's another way and I started I found a book called I don't know natural Natural medicine or something and I just started reading and I was like oh

3:08Interesting their stuff you can use plants to get similar effect I went so deep into that conversation I started buying seeds and planting the plants and I I was Commercial painter at the time so I was driving around from job site to job site, you know This is before that anybody had a cell phone before there was any internet and nobody had computers You know, you had a Thomas guide map to find your way around town and But I noticed that wherever I was whatever job That I was at and I was all over Orange County LA sometimes even down to San Diego. I could always find a use bookstore nearby and What I found was that when you wanted to learn about herbs there weren't any new books about them This is a night in the early 80s, you know, there just wasn't nobody was talking about it But I could go to a use bookstore and find an old book. It might be 50 years old or

4:1370 years old or some of the books I got to tell you they must have been you know Antiques and they'd have handwritten notes in them and the the binding would be all crackled and and I got a Literally I built a library of old herbal books and I just read those things every chance I got and they always have Recipes in them and I would start to Compare like what you learn and you know all about this is that depending on who's studying or who's telling the story There's different variables and especially with plants Wherever the book was written the plants that were local to that area or what kind of tradition or what there was This is just like I was never gonna learn all this because all around the world they didn't tell the same story So what I would end up doing If I wanted to come up with a recipe with something I would take I ended up coming with about six or seven of my books

5:15That I really felt were well written and well You know well researched and and they seemed to direct me well So I'd get all six or seven of those and I look up the same thing and all six or seven and if I could get four of them to agree Then I would go down that route and that was kind of my standard It was there was no pub med there was no you know stage three trials all I could do is hope that all these old people Telling their stories would agree on these things and I tell you what I Learned a lot and a lot of the things I did worked really well and today I I have a Healthy lungs as healthy as they could be Considering the scarring that I've gotten and I take no pharmaceutical drugs. I make an elixir that keeps me in in In homeostasis where I'm okay and I learned all that just from reading

6:17So Urban medicine that it was really I think pioneered by Ancient China Five thousand years. Yeah, and these classic books. Yeah, you know describe everything back to them. It's yeah fantastic feel You know and and here in the West there's not many people like you that really get into it Well, and the interesting thing about it is when you start to learn about science and then you start looking at natural things and and you really get honest about it most of the pharmaceutical Compounds are derived from or at least mimic a Compound that occurs in nature Well, how about aspirin that was the first pharmacy Seedle cellophilic acid comes out of the will of art. Yeah, yeah, absolutely 100% You know, and then you've got methyl solicilate comes out of the wintergreen plant wintergreen oil

7:21Cancer drugs all the cheek ends. Yeah Hacks all they're all from the plants. Yes And so a lot of times people get caught up They're like well, I only want to do natural things that I'm not doing the pharmaceutical route. It's like well, you got to really Open your mind to the place where the truth can settle in and don't be stuck up on one thing or another it's like religion people get hung up on this or that It's based on the data based on the evidence. Yeah, 100% You're not willing to look at that. You're gonna lose out Exactly, so I think a lot of the times when we're we're having conversations, you know, you're generally like Four steps ahead of the leading edge you're watching the leading edge develop and you're testing it almost as fast as they're testing it because I know I watch you and You know, there'll be a paper come out some drug will be out there and

8:26They'll be working on it and you'll turn around and do your own test and Put it in a methionine free environment or methionine restricted or with methionine days and Almost a hundred percent of time you find out that Whatever it was it works better Yeah, and you're testing it in real time the same, you know, I'm the same We see something interesting. We say okay. Let's do it. Let's do an experiment to see how it fits in with what we do Exactly, so we're you know our main theme is methionine restriction and so we want to find out what drugs work better under methionine restriction and Everyone but it's almost everywhere Most of them that's for sure You know and I Find it interesting like just recently we spent a couple of episodes at least in some part talking about that

9:33That new home run drug that came out and of course what did you do you ran out there a ran a test and You demonstrated that it worked better with Methionine restriction, but it's still ain't home run no Even though it's in my opinion just this side of worthless and and really expensive on top of that and You know and the In the long run it might be worse than worthless because of the side effects being so horrific You Hi, this is Joe Grumbine and I wanted to share an update the Platform that hosts this podcast has made some changes to the subscriber settings and we have a number of subscriber only episodes that we offer to the supporters and for a minimum of three dollars a month we can get you signed up and

10:36If you're already signed up and you're having some kind of trouble Locating these episodes and the other platforms. I would say maybe the best answer is to Subscribe and then re-subscribe. I'm sorry for the hassle. I Don't have any way to make a change, but I'm very grateful for all the support. Thank you Yeah, yeah What I've learned so far and and I'm just Tip of the iceberg. I think the drug has benefit. I Think it's minor Mm-hmm And just to put it in a little bit of perspective. I'm not the best to do it So the new drug and I can't ever pronounce it. That's a run or a rassib Commercial name is Razzoneek so

11:36so The survival over the is increased by about From six months to 13 months. That's good The progression free survival is not increased At the end of the first year It's no better than the chemotherapy alone control But then I want to tell you something that really I in my mind puts that drug in perspective and Since then off a lot about what I call the uncle uncle pharma complex, okay, and I stole that term From president Eisenhower talking about the military industrial complex all right, so as you know There's a publication out there you have a copy of Vitamin a phase three clinical trial of vitamins high dose intravenous

12:39Vitamin C for pancreatic heat repatients plus Comparing chemo and comparing vitamin the vitamin C with the chem Right and what do they get 18 months survival? Yeah Do we hear about it from all these Dancing and prancing on TV all these oncologists talking about the standard ovation they the talk got and And this is the greatest things and sliced bread and it's no it's unbelievable. It's so great. They never mentioned Vitamin C trial never Probably don't know about it because it's in a they don't read it's a little radar And they're right there they're they're banned with or whatever you call it Is here if it ain't here it ain't good it ain't real it isn't it isn't what it is yeah, agree It's you know, I was quite aware of all this

13:42Go on's on how they operate but this really really shows Yeah really shows here. We got the Dax Iran or I said 38 39,800 a month Marked down from 40,000 And you know you got this There's some benefit doesn't mean every patient taking is gonna get a benefit doesn't mean every patient can stand as The very significant side effects. It's it's an advanced. It's But these I mean they're they're putting out guys on every TV channel in the country these are gone and They're in rapture. I mean it's like you know, I don't know that The greatest thing ever and it's No, it's crazy and and it's so Telling to me they said oh, I've never seen anything like this the vitamin C trials been out for what a year or two

14:49It's been out more than a year. Yeah Never mentioned they don't it's not they're not hiding it They don't know about it. The only place I've heard about it is on our call Nero man with set by the uncle pharma Complex that's what they follow Yeah, it's like these women. They only wear design addresses by this one or that one never had any other dress that's much more pretty so That's what it is. Yeah, it is and And that's the poor patient He's never gonna know about it never The situation need journal of redox or whatever it is where the where the The vitamin treat Vitamin C trials published they had a publishing there because none of the big shot on colleges your own would take it Wow, I'm sure they probably submitted it

15:50The Yeah, the big the the ultimate is the New England Journal medicine Coat that's heaven's sweet to do wasn't there The doctor went arrested trial was published there right and These poor guys who did better is publishing the journal that Only very few specialists ever look at it's on But But does any of these guys ever put in a search term vitamin C are you kidding me? Right right why would they know? Yeah, why would they you know? Here we are yeah You know doctors like Dr. Castro and Dr. Song even Dr. Song didn't seem to be too thrilled when I mentioned it He was asking me more questions rather than had a strong opinion about it It seemed I think he probably knew more than he was letting on but

16:51He didn't seem to be all that thrilled when I brought it up I think As Thomas Kuhn would say Does normal science yes, he does what's under the paradigm but he does it At the extreme of the paradigm correct and but he's he's staging the paradigm yeah And he does trickle in little tidbits of Korean medicine as Ancillary things, you know, I've got a side effect for this. He says oh, go take some gin sing or go Great doctor. He knows everything. Yeah But to get him to say hey vitamin C is cool or even Maybe he's modifying a little bit about the findings. It's sure not in his background. He was brought him Under that paradigm absolutely, but he's a man that

17:55Does the best with that paradigm the best? The best so he's not gonna give his patients vitamin C no no He's not gonna But he's not gonna tell his patients don't do it. No, I don't know he's not gonna tell his patients. I don't know about that Yes, I agree he might ask you. Oh, why would you do that and because that's when he goes he's Socratic always That's how you know that's a reasonable yeah, that's a that's a reasonable approach, you know I'm not gonna go on TV and start dancing on the table. Oh, no, this new drug is the ultimate. No Now he stays in the trenches. He's like, okay Here's where we are and let's go here today and that's it She says right there. What about Dr. Castro is is he supportive of High-dose vitamin C infusions

18:57Yes, but I bet on it. Yeah, I Do you think and I know you you Speak with a lot more cancer patients than ideal though. I'm talking to more and more as we go Do you believe that there's more and more integrative oncologists that are at least a little bit open-minded about other treatments and DNA treatment or you know DNA testing and and all the new different types of immunotherapy and things like that You know, I've never spoken with an immigrant oncologist Okay, this guy learned is from doctor XMA on our on our zoom call Uh-huh many of them and he and he's a you know, he's a Retired surgeon brought up in the system, but boys he out of the box. So yeah, oh, yeah, he's all over the place Anything that he thinks from extensive reading Yeah Resurable evidence of efficacy

19:58All right, I'm knowing the great of oncologists. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know I would tend to doubt it, but I don't know anything and I Don't know I Know the one that I consulted one time From UCI I was not impressed which is really nice, but at the end she was trying to sell me a bunch of vitamins Yeah, you see I was like you know if I want to put you on a pito diet You're really if if my conversation Dr. Castro is an integrative oncologist. Yeah, but this is a man of of Eradition and brilliant. Yeah, I agree and he works with everything he works with chemo he works with immunotherapy He works with repurposed drugs he works with all I don't I think he works with radiation and in fact I know he does because he was talking to me about radiation yet Works with everything so and that's ultimately what the integrative part of that means

21:03I on our call Dr. Yeah He seems very open-minded Yeah, and the very fact that he comes on our call every week Says volumes all right Yeah, he doesn't usually say a lot, but he's he's there listening. Yeah Yeah agreed I I know you had some issues or questions or whatnot, but at the end of the day Have patients you wanted armothinia for patients and he wouldn't allow me to talk with the patient. Yeah, no, no And almost every day Had one the other day not signed not nothing How do I can 50 grant 50 milligrams of or 50 doses or whatever of menthionist he said Could you please identify yourself and yeah, that's their patient Right, who are you why are you asking? Never heard from really

22:08No, and when I see let's have a phone call. I never And and that's that's a great thing You know, so I'm not gonna give Mathienist for me is between me and the patient and but another doctor's involved god bless him or her yeah, absolutely talk to that patient and In Japan, it's she here. Oh talks for me before Japanese, but she's speaking for me You know, I'm not out there hawking You're Helped the patient. I got to talk to the patient. I got another I gotta know what else they're doing right Ladies, was she seemed very open-minded. Oh good and she Was not taking any any chemo

23:09Okay Utiline cancer, okay, they said well use what I said to her I said the base the basic is you gotta go on the matheining Lomathion diet right second base basic is you gotta go on first line team Well, then we did me radiation too. I said you find somebody that will let you put off the radiation right right do what I did And I said the third thing is if you you can consider Mathienist and the other things she's on ten bendus all she overdosed with with The other one what's it called I've remector over there. I go to the hospital. Yeah 120 grams the first day I said well you can go back to it, but you don't start like that Hey, you start out with 12 or 24 yeah, I told her I said It's gotta be the whole thing. Yeah I told one guy that did the same thing remember he had oh he had taken way too much

24:14but The basics the basics are Getting on the lo-mathion diet and getting on first line chemo. Yeah, that grows the basics then we add on and add on right And I mean, and I would say along with it, you know the diet learn about the fasting if you can and You know oxidative therapies and part of your chemo. Yeah, absolutely absolutely and you know learn about bring an oxygen into your body Maybe a maybe heat therapy. I mean there's lots of easy low-hanging fruit like the The sodium incarnate fourth group right Exactly exactly well. I know I've been talking to our teachers a little bit I I'm kind of letting him I he got my osanated glycerin and he's been asking questions about I want to bring him on the podcast But I'm not rushing to engage him. I'm trying to give him a chance to you know sit with it a minute and and he keeps coming back for questions

25:22So I'm gonna I'm gonna engage him and apparently he's been avoiding any kind of first-line Therapy treatment and he's trying to do it all naturally and I'm gonna have a good strong talk with him that You know I tried that too and I would I would I would be dead right now if I stayed there Yeah, he's Almost certainly he needs to go on a dt. Yeah and he you know Well, I'll talk to him maybe Dave taking that exam. Yeah, he's a good option. Yeah You know that you talk to Dave you talk to Bill Bill I was on a dt wasn't all that You know, I mean everybody all a dt. He's gonna just knock me down. Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily true You know it really knocks you down. Die in a cancer There and and you can't get up and you don't get back up, you know, and that's the thing and the guy the only ways like 120 pounds

26:29I'm like, you know, I told him I go first you got it He did get the hominx and he's taking that so I'm hopefully he's starting to stop losing weight. Yeah, and Oh, yeah, he's got to get on a dt What's his opinion? Do we know? What's that? What's his PSA level? I don't know the answer. I'm gonna when I talk to him maybe tomorrow I'll get all the details. You know how it's gone over the last year or so Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I'll get everything from him. I know all the questions to ask Very smart. Yeah Yeah, he's scared. Yeah, yeah, I agree, but he wants to live he says Yeah, he told me very clearly and no uncertain terms. I want to live and that's that's the part that I care the most about so You know, I think I think we have Hopefully, you know if he maybe he's intimidated by all the the talk on the on the call

27:30What not, but he seems to be pretty open with me one on one So we'll see maybe I can get through to him You already are yeah, yeah exactly well speaking of that we had a pretty interesting little Experience that Dr. Song's last last time and for our listeners Dr. Huffman Companies me my every three-week appointment to Dr. Song's and the two of them have been having good conversation and actually this last time You've got the second Piece of the case study on my case that's being ready for publication and you had asked Joe that got accepted for public All right Yes, so the second piece of the of the case study is going to be published soon and I love it. I love it. Oh there we go when when you're apart almost The one to the next and you at you asked Dr. Song if he would you know sign on as a co-author and Dr. Song's like

28:37Oh, no, I don't deserve that and the truth is you know you said you said it straight up This is you're the one who introduced the K Truda and you're the one who brought that protocol into this So you're absolutely Critical in this and he agreed and so you sign so the second publication that'll be Published like you said by the end of the year will include Dr. Song as a as an author which is just spectacular to me really makes me makes me happy but I went in For my usual infusion and you know I sit down and there's usually somebody sit next to me And you know I we all have you know everybody's got chemo face, you know You're all beat up and tired and look like you're half dead and you're strapped up You got a most everybody's got a port so you got this Tube sticking out of your chest and some bag or two bags dripping into it and You know that everybody's just kind of sitting there and I was sitting next to a guy who seemed to be

29:40Intent on something he was reading or doing and Not sitting there and you know I introduced myself whatnot didn't say much and then Dr. Song comes in to To pull my blood and and set the infusion up and he says You know you guys should talk because he has what you had and And and I says okay, and he didn't have a visible tumor. So I was like okay Well, he's somewhere in the process and and so we started talking The guy was like I think he was French Canadian he had a pretty strong accent Any and he spoke pretty quietly and fast which was really difficult for me because I got my right ear It doesn't hear very well at all and my left ear here's a little better And so I really have to look at somebody when they're talking unless I've got a good microphone or something Because I just especially if they're talking so I missed A chunk of what he said, but I got enough that that told me the story and

30:43He had told me that he had fired seven or eight doctors prior to The sitting with Dr. Song and I says all right. Well, this guy's at least He's doing his homework. He's advocating for himself And he had a a tumor similar to mine and apparently I think it was higher up and it had some different characteristics But it was a squamous cell carcinoma tumor head neck cancer more or less identical to what I had And he had or I think he was still in the middle of his chemo treatment He was he was in the process, but they were giving him Some other kind of treatment they wanted to give him radiation as well. He didn't want the radiation I don't remember if he said he had some surgery He didn't seem to have a surgery, but Again, I didn't catch everything in said, but we were talking My infusion lasts about 45 minutes to an hour so the the whole time I was getting dripped he was he was talking

31:46He did most of the talking I shared a little bit and I told him about right off the bat I go well, what what your diet like, you know, I always asked that what what do you how do you eat, you know, and I could tell he he didn't eat a lot of protein, but he did eat protein He ate some some meat and some fish and I said man you got to at least cut the fish out If you're going to do anything at least at least cut that fish out because it's just so high I started telling him about my thining with thining restriction with the anyways and how well Yeah, I But you know, just people even though he really seemed to like Beyond top of it he didn't get that part like he wasn't he wasn't engaging with that When I told him instead of him No, no, no doctor ever talked to him about it. No And I was the first to hear it, but here's what happened at the end He took my you know finished up with my infusion did a flush did all the things he did

32:49And then he looked at the guy and he said did you did you listen to what he said pointing to me And and he says what we talked, you know and And he says you really need to listen to what he said he knows And he was telling me like like he considered me To have good information on my situation for him like he really wanted him Like he was like insistent. He's like you really should listen to what he says And I was like wow that was I felt so good about that because doctor song and I like We never had an issue at all we never but it heads at all But I would bring up things that he would be like well, why are you doing that? You know, he would question me and I would tell him This is what I'm doing. He's okay. He didn't have a problem with it I told him about the diet. He's like well be careful You know, you don't want to go too low on protein because you know every blood test it would show Borderline protein low on L. B. him and all those markers that you know

33:53Most doctors would maybe consider an issue and then of course I went anemic after the chemo which we turned around and But usually first thing they say he read me right? I mean, that's you know That's the the old school solution and I was like no That's not my answer and and I turned it around with you know some different things and and he saw it He saw what happened then he saw the paper that you published he read that paper And he started asking questions about methionine remember a couple of times even one time he quoted he he he quoted you and He we were talking about something about diet and he said he said to me because Cancer's addiction to methionine and I smiled at him. I said you're getting it. Okay, and so When it comes to the information side of things really my point of the whole story Is that you know you can you got to through this whole episode. We're talking about information and sources of information. We talked about old

35:02herbal books. We talked about you know pharma college you pharmaceutical authored content and and the influence that This machine has on The information stream of oncologists and they're willing this to accept it alternative sources and and and doing the work to find these case studies that there are out there There are trials and there are studies published in pub med that means that they're published in peer-reviewed journals and and You know it's it's valid Science evidence-based science that you can at least consider we talked about our call and and Physicians and patients sharing information. We talked about you and and your own experiments and you're you know

36:04ravenous hunger for the the new information and and and and willingness to test it we talked about The patient himself Doing that work and and probing and searching and seeking and trying All of these sources of information can be important But I know here's my take on that yes This to me says volumes about after song and about you So Dr. Song has designated you as the expert not himself You he didn't say listen to me. He said listen to you What doctor does that a very special patient To try to instruct another patient how to do

37:06That to me was incredible He Rep that not only did he do it he recognized you as the expert not himself. They said didn't say listen to me He said listen to you listen to Joe and He subordinated himself to you What unconscious in this universe would do that? I never I never even come close to hearing anybody Lord all guys come in with their white coat. Yeah That was incredible to me. Yeah, he recognized you as being able to help that patient More than he could Listen to him. Yeah, he knows what to do. He lived through it

38:08Incredible to me that I was so moved by that Uh So I mean Amazing just amazing And Maybe this guy will be thinking a little bit But he's not gonna see him That he tells you to talk with you. Yeah, nothing again and again I think it's gonna be there next time I go I guess you were as that new paper said new paradigm No no no radiation no surgery All right, yeah Next name is self-carsinoma. It doesn't happen at all But it happened. Yeah exactly melted away By the hour. Yes

39:12It's it's a fantastic story. I hope you you're memorializing it Joe. Oh you bed Everywhere I go every time I get somebody I think I can listen yeah No I am so very grateful that you you know have taken the That the time and consideration and care to Publish this in the way you have because it's given me a tool You know, I made a commitment. I said you know with what I've done I'm gonna spend the rest of my life trying to help people with what I've learned and and in whatever way I can I don't know what that means, you know I just know that I come upon people Hey, yeah You know at the end of the day I can I can tell my story and if nothing more I can I can Leave your story. Yeah, every day You've lived your story. Yeah, it doesn't Recognize that. Yes exactly exactly and every day that it doesn't come back is I'm I'm what can you advise the

40:20The listeners It was easy for me to say listen Listen It's it's it's it and it's really the simplest thing. It's not easy or fun Until you get used to it right now. I don't even think about it. You know, you just change your diet and and right off the bat change your diet You endure very very High-dose chemo that Dr. Song gave you you go through what you have to whatever it is And you did all the other things you do yeah And and you keep your attitude strong The UCI lady in the beginning Our chemo no radiation and she did it yeah At least to get it started, but now we have a tool that we can give to somebody in my situation You tell You when it says to Somebody who reads this tool You may not need Radiation that's gonna just destroy your esophagus and your blend exactly you may not need surgery

41:25It turns you into a monster looking exactly Need it you can try Neal as you can chemo right You get on methion Respected diet methion and age to help it and see how you do exactly Be very surprised exactly exactly and now You know You And it's him it's such a great story because Hednex clean the scars the most clean the cell cars You get the worst part of it Is the treatment yes Yes, and and and most people In the end succumb to it After all the treatments after all the pain and suffering and most of them Will face removed And they get their radiated to the canny Missing this and this and this and it spreads for their lungs

42:28The tumor comes back Metastasized it to the lung and takes them out exactly and it happens. I'd see it over and over and over again Yeah, I every day that that that I don't have a recurrence I'm I'm treading new Blazing a new trail and You know that's the trail that I'm gonna I'm documenting now is what am I doing to keep it gone? And you know it it's you know the diet I I'm doing the sodium by carbonate I'm doing my osanated glycerin. I'm doing a lot of exercise. I'm doing I'm getting ready to begin that depleted Deterium protocol. I haven't done it. I'm still finishing reading it about it, but it seems It makes enough sense and the way I the research that I've seen and what Dr. Exame is saying that the thing that it is best for is keeping it gone It's an adjunct therapy to get it gone, but

43:29Maintenance yes be with the K true Yes, exactly Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, and I've had as zero notable side effects. I've almost completely recovered from the chemo side effects The the little hangers on are are diminishing all the time and I'm You know I As far as I know I Men as unscathed as somebody could ever hope to be Yeah, so Well Robert this is just So important to work that we're talking about we don't always break new ground, but we always find a new Way to shine the light on the information that's critical and and And these tenants that we keep bringing up and telling difference

44:36Telling difference anecdotes about how and why and when and where Help people to different people to connect with it, you know, we have a lot of prostate cancer patients that we work with But we've had everything glioblastoma Hidden net cancer pancreatic cancer. We've had We know we've had just about anything you can think of that that And we've had positive results with those that are doing it now We have a couple of people on the call that are trying to help their loved one We have a lady who's trying to help her son and her son's not responding because he's not doing it And he's having issues and you know she's learning what she's learning But the son doesn't want to do it and so she's you know reporting the inevitable You know negative side effects. I had a lady that I was told about Head and net cancer scrimmage cell carcinoma Large tumor in the neck like mine. It was even to the point where it was starting to weep and I said

45:39Don't give up You can you can turn it around I am in her from her I I know I said I said I was there. I was where you are And and and I turned it around and and I don't have it anymore You can do that. I can help you and I said it just like that and I never I never got a response And I was like oh It's like When it when it's in line like when somebody has a different cancer I can share my story, but the story doesn't Necessarily line up exactly because the things I did Don't necessarily correlate but the the main pillars do the diet the methane age the oxidative therapy applies to all cancers And there might be a specific you know chemical or or treatment that Will work better for one than another well we know that that you do your research and you find the thing that you need

46:41In addition to these main pillars But when I got find somebody that has exactly what I had And I can walk them through like I I did what you have and look I don't have it you know I mean he would think somebody would go lock in like if I had somebody that did that to me I would have I would have followed them around like a puppy dog and done whatever they did Her doctor didn't tell her do it. I think having a doctor Uh Tell them to do it Dr. Song is getting there. Yeah, yeah Instead, yeah, it's better right No, I agree and and you know every little teeny step That we make Towards That paradigm shift even if it's a little one when we get it on colleges It's been practicing for 60 years to listen to us even some you go wow Where we're

47:43Tells you he tells us patient to listen to you exactly So we're cracking the door open a little bit, you know and every time I take that paper I'll just show no question. Yeah, we're doing it. We're doing it Robert Well, it's an honor to to be working alongside you and with you and you know I don't have any fancy degrees, but I love working with you. I love the science All the degrees in the world couldn't give you the knowledge and experience that you have I agree with that that's for sure Well, I look forward to talking to you next Sunday on the call and for all the listeners If you have cancer if you know anybody that you care about that does we have a call every Sunday at 4 p.m It's a zoom call the link is directly in the show notes of this podcast that you're listening to Just pump it and listen even if you don't talk just listen you're gonna talk to people You're gonna talk to people who are going through it who have been through it

48:47You're gonna talk to people who have survived the unsurvivable. They've done things that that people don't do Oh cool way to put it Exactly well, it's it's it couldn't be more true Dr. X made gene all these people that are you know many years into you know Homeostasis or managing or still alive in some cases when they were given no chance for survival. Yeah, so all right Robert Well as always I just love these conversations and I So grateful. I hope you're now having a fantastic day. I'm having a super fantastic Excellent. Well, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast I'm your host Joe Grumbine and I want to thank all of our listeners for making the show possible and we will see you next time This has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast

49:47We produce this show so that people can share their stories People that have overcome Obstacles people that are undergoing obstacles. We're building a community of health-minded individuals If you're interested in Supporting the show please leave a review on the platform you're listening to it on If you're interested in becoming a guest Please send an email to it's joe grumbine at gmail.com or you can send a note into the Notes section of the podcast All right. Well, thank you for supporting this show and we hope you've enjoyed it