Which chemistry lessons have stuck with us? (Happy Chemiversary!)

0:00This is Belie, one network, every topic, everywhere. Kim, where were you on this day seven years ago? Hmm, I can't remember for sure, but I want to say I was sitting in a closet in a former house of mine with this like chemist friend I had with a folding and unfolded table and some microphones that I already had in something like that, doing just normal stuff like everyone does. I think that sounds about right. That's because seven years ago, we started K-Wish Reveal Life! That's right. So we are gonna have a fun, special seven day anniversary episode. Are you ready to get started? I'm ready, let's do it. Hey, I'm Melissa. I'm Jam. And I'm a chemist. And I'm not. And welcome to Chemistry for Your Life. The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your every day life. Seven day anniversary edition.

1:00I'm a real real real real real real. Okay, we have our fancy drinks, cheers, and our special guest Claire is here. Here. Where is she? She's here. She's here. She's here. She's here. She's here. She's here. She's here. Here. She's here. She's here. Thank you. Claire is here to celebrate with us. Yes. I can't easily cheer you a clear, but I'll just, there we go. We'll do a little. Yeah. Yeah. Raise your glass toast. In case you're wondering, this is not alcoholic. This is root beer slash diet, Dr. Pepper. Yep, diet pepper. Yep. You gotta get a little caffeine to get us through, you know? I have another special surprise that Jam has. Jam hasn't seen yet. I mean, he's seen the box, but he doesn't know what's in it. There's no way I could know. There's nothing written on it. This is a cake that I had made special. Oh. I don't know. Can you see it on there?

2:00Dude, that's awesome. You got to blip, yeah, there you go. Oh my gosh, it's so cute. It's awesome. It says happy seventh birthday, and it has a flask on it. Oh, that's awesome. So cute. Yay. I kind of thought it was like, oh, we could display it, but I don't know where it's bigger than I anticipated it being. That's awesome. They did a really good job with that. I know. They did such a good job. I was like, who knows? I called the lady and was like, um, can I get a special cake? I want to chem a street flask. I was like, no, I don't know how this is going to turn out, but it turned out perfect. It's like exactly our logo. We can post a picture of it online. Yeah. So we'll have some of this after to celebrate. Yes. I wish we could share it with all of you listeners. Yeah. Send a piece of mail. Yeah. You don't have your page on the page, you don't have to go. You have to go. You have to go. Like, from a couple weeks ago. And when we got there, the person hadn't made it yet. And she was like, yeah, since you had to wait, do you want to grab a few pieces of cookie?

3:03And we were like, no, thank you. We're about to have a lot of cookies. Yeah. There's not very many of us to share this with. It's true. Well, I was, I don't know what made me realize this. You're recording on the day of the anniversary of our trailer coming out. And I was like, oh, we should do something special to celebrate. When we hit a million, at, listen, I think we did a special live YouTube video thing. And we haven't really done much since then. So I thought it would be fun to celebrate our seventh anniversary. And then we can do another big fun thing around 10 years, you know. So we kind of missed five. Yeah. I think five in a million came close. Yeah, they probably did. Yeah, that's a good point. We're on our way to two million. Wow, that's so exciting. That's kind of crazy. A lot of people. Yeah. And it's weird because I, it's like, we don't always know how many different people that is. Right. It's just how many downloads. But it is so like, I mean, like, yeah, because it has to be at least 10. Right. Yes. But I mean, it has a lot to get to two million listens.

4:06Yeah. Because you only have 500 episodes, something like that. Yeah. Almost 250 in terms of true episodes within a bunch of bonuses and extra things or whatever. So yeah, probably somewhere close to 500, specifically, different episodes. So yeah, right. Yeah. So it took a while to get to two million. Yeah. So exciting. So many people are in chemistry. That's so fun. And I did get to go to conference this past month for chemistry education. And we, the one that we did the series for and I met more people than I've ever met before who already knew the podcast. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. You're like a celebrity there. Like people. Oh, really? But people were like, oh, like, I know about chemistry for your life. A few people wanted to take selfies with me. That's so fun. I was like, this is crazy. Can I take a selfie with you? Like, what do you want to send it to me? I should have told them to tag it. But I just was like, this is crazy. And like, that happened with one person last time we went to BCCE. But there was like, I think probably three-ish.

5:10Maybe more. I can't remember. But every time I was like, that is wild. Like, because we know that we have people to listen, but we don't get to meet them very often. Right. Yeah. And obviously interacting online with the people who listen, clearly, it's proofs to us that people are listening and enjoying it. We get to see a lot of you guys were encouraging comments and all of that. We have the whole, you know, for years. But there's a special eerie-ness to like, when it's in person, which I guess I haven't only experienced you have, but it is, it would be similarly kind of like dumbfounded to me to be like, wait, you're a real life person and you've already listened to this before. Yeah. Yeah. It was very weird. And very cool. It's like, thank you. This is crazy. You know, like, it's just hard to, yeah, wrap your mind around it. But it was really fun. Thanks to everyone who came and chatted with me. I wrote on a few people's names, but I don't have my note handy. I'll try to remember to do a shout out in the coming weeks. But I'm not doing less than today.

6:11So that's why I don't have my notes. Instead we brought Claire here to ask us questions that you are listeners submitted so that we could, yeah, answer some of the questions you've had over the last seven years. Yeah. And there are really good questions, too. I'm so excited to hear your guys' answers for these. Yeah. So yeah, let's just jump in. Okay. Yeah, you guys can do answer in whatever order you want. Okay. There's some like specific questions that people had for like each of you. But I'll start off with just like the first one on the list. So what's something that the podcast has done that you didn't expect it to do? Do you want to go first or do it with me, too? I have a thought that I think you'll have more options to choose from. So I'll say this one. I think it really did not like back in our earliest recording sessions and all that stuff.

7:11It didn't cross my mind that anyone outside of the US would ever listen. And there was like pretty quickly in the first year, some like signs that that was going to start happening. And I was like, wait, why are people in other places listening to this? And so that's one of those things that at this point we're kind of used to. But when we stop and think about it for like five seconds, there's something just totally crazy about that. Yeah, I think I remember talking to my mom about all the different countries she passed away in March of 2020. So less than a year after we started the podcast and already there was like I think a hundred countries where we had listeners. And you're like, are these real are these bots? But then we started like hearing from people. Yes, yes. But we're in those countries and that's really exciting. I think for me, something that has happened over the course of the podcast is it's forced me to really grow in my confidence as a chemist. Like I remember a conversation with one of my friends saying, I don't think I ever heard you call yourself a chemist until the podcast.

8:12And Jam really wanted me explicitly to say, I'm a chemist. So that they listeners knew that it was from an expert. But it like really forced me to confront my chemistry identity. And well, I also had a conversation with someone who studied science, identity and physics, identity like who sees themselves as a physicist or a chemist. And I think I said something like, well, I'm not really a chemist, you know, because I just I just have my master's degree or something like that. And she's like, no, you are a chemist. You think about the world in a different way than a physicist is. Like what's small to you is not to say I was what's small to me. And when you think about things, you think about molecules in a way that I don't think about them. And so that I think that was a really powerful thing that it like an impact it had on me that it didn't expect it to have. That was kind of how I interpreted it. That's cool. Yeah, do you remember that? I guess that's so long ago at this point. But I remember coming from the perspective of if I'm just a regular person tuning into

9:13a science podcast, I just want to know who I'm listening to. I don't have to say I don't want them to be bragging like I'm the best chemist ever or whatever. But like I do want to know, like, do you have you studied this and like, are you trustworthy in the sense of you are this is a discipline that you've been immersed in and that you are trying your best to deliver accurately all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And I was like, I think for most of us like podcast listener type folks, it's just like, I want to know that from the jump before I get like weigh in and find out later or something like that. Like that person not know that they didn't know what they're talking about or whatever. And so, but I do remember it speaks of prize that that was something that you were like, I hadn't really thought about or was was a little bit weird, a little comfortable to lean into. I was like, do I count as a chemist? I do. I mean, conversation. And I think you've probably inspired people to call themselves.

10:14I mean, you definitely did with me the first time I came on, I was like, Oh, like I said in neuroscience, but you were like, no, you're a neuroscientist. Yeah. Oh, I am. I remember having that conversation with you. And so in a like a way that you've also helped other people like know that they're like who are scientists that they are scientists. Yeah. That's cool. It's because of that conversation with that person. Like she validated me in a way that I was like, Oh, and that enabled me to recognize the importance of saying that to other people. Yeah. Wow. So cool. Yeah. So our next question. What is surprised you most about podcasting itself? So the process of recording episodes, maybe Melissa, maybe you would have more surprises since jam is coming from that AV background. I don't know if maybe he has a surprise too. Yeah. He's done most of the technical stuff, I think. Podcasting itself. I don't know that there's too many surprises because I just sort of feel like jam is the cruise director. So I just show up and he's like, do this, do that. I do remember we used to listen to ourselves on the headphones.

11:19Jam still does, but I stopped after COVID when we came back together. It was like, do you really need to do this? And that was hard. Having to hear yourself talk while you're talking was very confusing. So that was a hard thing. And then maybe also the publicness of it. Like we hear from people. And sometimes people who aren't experts but want to share their opinions, like we hear from people a lot. And you just put it out there and you have to hope that you want to be doing your best. So that's like a very vulnerable thing. I think maybe that was like very vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I feel like the hearing yourself thing is hard for everybody. Like whether someone's on just like one time and that to go, they want to go listen to their episode or like share it like when Claire's been on or like Nikki recently. So you like you want to show up with people, but then there's the reaction a lot of people have either in this case or like an identity video of somebody. They just are like, whoa, does that sound like that?

12:19You know, yes, that's definitely takes some getting over for sure. But I think one of the things that I've been surprised by because this is the first podcast I was a part of and a friend of mine did. We did about a hundred episodes or no, we did exactly a hundred episodes, but we had such a small audience. There's mostly family and friends and co-workers and so like that. And that was kind of what we were going for. We really actually didn't. It wasn't we didn't have a target audience to mind at all. It's like just for fun. But we kind of heavily edited it because our promise was that it had to be 15 minutes. Oh, yes. And so quite laborious. And when we started adding in video and we switched to the kind of good mythical morning style of like jam and I he means, we started fast forward to now. My other podcast is on indefinite hiatus. This one, chemistry for your life, we switched to doing video or added that in and we switched

13:20to recording as if it's alive show so that the video doesn't have a ton of jump cuts and all that kinds of stuff in it. So it was funny to me about that was like that worked. Like we were editing out every little like cough and breath and all that kind of stuff. So what surprised me in that case is that we can do less work on the like editing side which coming from someone who's like always been like an editor was like a wait. We can get away with just recording the conversation and as long as it sounds good and I like filter and EQ and stuff like that. It will be okay. Yeah. That's been kind of a game changer for us being able to keep up with the workload I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think with our lives changing as much as they have, I'm not sure we would have been able to keep going if we hadn't made that change. Yeah. I just don't think, especially jam, you know, Scott, a growing family and a very time intensive

14:21job. And I guess me too, but I don't do that. I don't have a necessarily growing family. Well, Mason came along during it anyway. Yeah. But I think I sometimes they already feel guilty almost about the amount of time that jam spins away from those other responsibilities on this. And so I think it would have probably not been sustainable, especially for his schedule. This is really a hobby for him. For me, it's so adjacent to my career, but for him it's well, it's adjacent to your TV career career. Yeah. It's like a way of me holding on to once what once was my career. Yeah. Yeah. I have a video audio thing I get to do still. Yeah. And a pretty impressive audience that goes with it. Yeah. Yeah. And I just feel more authentic to like I like the no editing. That's fun. Like it definitely draws me to, and I think a lot of people probably. Yeah. Because I'm like, I'm really not. Well, not much of a pocket person to be honest.

15:22But the one I do like is this one. Over all the while, listen, other ones I'm like this feels so like manufactured. Yeah. That I really like the like, oh, it's just like you record, have a conversation, you put it out there like that's so fun. I really like that. I think the ones that are really manufactured have to be manufactured really well. Like I think about the old school days of radio lab, I haven't listened in a while to that one, or like criminal, by Phoebe Judge. She's just so good at interviewing people and they put this story together really well. And it cuts in with her voice and the interview. Yeah. But if you're not going to manufacture to that level, then I'd rather just be a singer. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And people really have like really good, it's a complicated story. They have different interviews with different people. And then there's like the added like artistic, you know, element of like we have original songs and some sad effects, not kind of stuff. You can add to it when it's needed and it really doesn't enhance it. But also you kind of need something to kind of transition people.

16:23It's like, okay, here's this interview, here's this interview, you can't just like, you know, it's a little bit jarring to be thrown from one thing to another. Yeah. But it would take so much more work. I mean, we just don't, yeah. And I don't even know if I could do it. Yeah. Not just like time, but like I don't even know if we have the tools for all that. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of that like leads into this next question, maybe come up with a different answer. But what is the biggest thing that's changed in the last seven years? So we talked about, maybe the style of the podcast itself, but what else has changed over all this time? Do you want to go first? You want me to? You go first. If you have one already. The biggest thing I thought about is our lives. And the location we've recorded has changed. We've added video. There's been things about the podcast that have changed, but our listeners have seen a lot of that. But I think for me, like, well, just over the course of this podcast, Jamis had kids.

17:26I got married. I got a PhD in a whole like a sub discipline for sure. Like chemistry education research is its own discipline, but it is a whole different set of skills than organic chemistry research. You know, so I had to learn all of that. I got a postdoc. I've got a permanent job now, you know, like all those things changed. And with that, I think my perspective changed significantly. And then also, you know, Jam is in school now, has had kids and he's had some major life things happen throughout it too. And it's been like this podcast has been maybe this podcast. No, because I even met Mason maybe around the same time actually. So like this podcast and Mason have been two of the most constant things, you know, in that time. And in our church, you know, it's like got a lot of things have, a lot of other things have changed. Yeah. We've moved houses. We bought a house. You bought a house, you know, yeah, sold a house about a house.

18:29Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point. That's a great answer. I don't know if I have a comparable one. And that's okay, because actually that is another good leeway into or a good segue into like how has your relationship with each other changed in the past seven years? Yeah. I think what's cool about that is that even though we knew each other before you became friends with my wife, like several years later, it's like it was just we were at different campuses connected by the same, you know, campus ministry. But it was like we all had a lot of relationships like that. We're like, oh, I know like, you know, dozen people at UTT and we were all at the same, you know, training thing together in the summer. Yeah. And stuff. But then when you moved up here and you and M started hanging out, it was like a fun that we got to do do that together. You all would hang out to show off, but we'd also would have all three hang out. But then like the change of like imagining what our friendship was like before we, you

19:32and I had a project that we were working on. It was like, oh, we had we're like in a friend group and we were running to their plenty. But it wasn't like we were collaborating on something. Yeah. And so that's obviously a huge change. And now it's it's hard because it's been so seven years. It's hard to remember what it was like before in some ways, you know, or not like what it was like, but it's hard to remember this being not existent. Yeah. And that's part of that, you know? Well, quite the opposite of us collaborating, we argued a lot. That's true. Like all the time. Like I think Emily thought it was a bad idea for us a little bit. Yeah. Because but it would be about silly things, you know, like one was reality TV is which, which I heard though that jam is now watching survivor, which is crazy. No comment on that. Wow. No comment. We had a huge argument where I remember getting like genuinely upset because I'm like, the people on Great British Wiccough really seem to care about each other.

20:35And he was like, no. So I argued all the time, but something that was really special and has been maintained I think is when we came into this space, it was so clear that jam respected my expertise and I respected his. I was like, oh, this is what you're good at. So I'm just going to let you do that. And we had that mindset about each other. And I think that has really helped this space work differently than the dumb things that we would argue about before. Yeah. When there's like a clarity of like roles and giftings, that's super helps a lot. But there's also a level of like, you know, it was, we're opinionated people. And there's like, it was fun to do that. But also there's probably just a little bit of like, it gets, it gets old. Yeah. When it's like, we're sort of having initially sort of fake. Funny argument, but we both actually do have opinions about it. And so the longer we are messing with each other about it, it's becoming real. Yeah.

21:35I think the realization too of like, okay, it's not a super phone when it gets to that point. Yeah. So maybe I won't pick a fight with you on something for fun that ends up becoming. I feel like I'm both actually fighting about like I remember one. If we had, I had such strong feelings about that was what's, what do people call it when they're nervous about going number two in a public restaurant? Oh, I thought about this too. Yeah. I know. There's like a phrase people use now. Pupshai. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. That's probably it. And I just remember arguing like, no one should have that. I do. And I do. Yeah. And Emma and most are both against me on this one. And it was, it was a really funny one because it's so stupid to argue about that. Really? Like sure, you can have an opinion, but like, what are you just going to convince someone to not be, you know? But you got to convince. You think I don't want to convince my body? Yeah. It's just as funny, but like those, even those ones would get to a point where it's like,

22:37the way I'm saying stuff is frustrating to hear. Right. And I'm making arguments that are a little like, you know, half-brained, but I'm saying it was such conviction as if it's a really important thing. And then it's, you have your good reasons to the opposite. And so it really becomes anything can become a real argument if you do enough of it. But I'll also say there have been times that we had harder things in our relationship outside of the podcast that because we had committed to this is like, will we got to figure that out? I don't know. I think we both have now commitment to this friendship that we would have worked on those things. Yeah. There were times where we came together to podcast and we accidentally just had these like really deep, hard conversations that one time Basin came in and it was like several hours and we were like, we haven't even started podcasting. Yeah. And he was like, are you serious? Yeah. He thought we were joking at first and we're like, no, our friendship is more important.

23:39So we have to talk about these things. I've been grateful that our friendship has been so steady for so long. And I think a big part of it is like, I don't have this regular meeting with anyone up really, you know, for this long. Yeah. Yeah. And it really is helpful that like you have a project together that it's like, you do have to work through stuff, you know? And so a lot of the friendships like, you know, sometimes things just change or whatever and it's not always a bad thing. But the sad thing is that if there's not like something tethering people together, then you won't just kind of work through stuff. Yeah. You necessarily or on the flip side of that like something that makes me sad but just kind of happens is like my buddy Jason and I who used to do the other podcast. What was kind of cool is that it kept us hanging out even after you stopped working at the same place. Yeah. But then we did, it was getting more and more difficult to do and then we'd come together and hang out. But it'd be like, oh, we have this thing we have to do.

24:41Yeah. It's like a task we have to check off. And so it was like the thing that kept us hanging out also kept us from just getting to just hang out, you know? Yeah. And so that's when, uh, we certainly, there's some benefits to the fact that we've kind of found better. We've found better ways around that by we don't live in different towns and all that kind of stuff. But it's, there's a real plus to having something you're getting to work on with a friend that keeps you friends and also makes you have to take care of your friendship to keep things in a good place. So if you like the thing you're working on enough, then you want to keep doing it. And we do. And I mean, you've done it for seven years. Yeah. Yeah. It's something that I think we both believe in a lot. But also it, I think reminds us why we care about our jobs or Jim's previous job. It's like those career fields. It's like, this is fun. Yeah. What would like, this is a question that someone submitted. What would you, you, you, you guys seven years ago, what would Melissa and Jam seven years ago think about the podcast now?

25:43You can't even imagine what. One thought I had is like, if you told me, oh, you have the number one chemistry podcast, I'd be like, cool. That's my job, right? Mm-hmm. It's not my job. It doesn't even really pay. I mean, like, at most we've gotten a little bit of money that's barely covered the investment we put back into it. But you think if you're like, this meant you have 1.5 million downloads, you're like, yeah, we're rich. We are not rich. Yeah. You know, I just like that Anakin Padme meme where it's like, you're like, I have the number of going to give me podcast and she'd be like, oh, it's your job, right? And he just says nothing. Yeah. It's your job, right? Yeah, that's a good point. I also think I would probably think like, oh, we're still doing that in seven years? Not that like, I wouldn't want to be, but just more like, back when we decided to start doing this, our lot, yeah, like we talked about earlier, our lives looked so super different.

26:46So there was such a no brainer to it, but I think I would have assumed probably this something would have prevented it from going this long. Yeah. And instead our lives are more intertwined because now also, jam has a business with my husband too. So he's like, really got his claws into our family. That's right. One night. Mm hmm. Well, yeah. Yep. I'm just a little parasite. It's a little hobby parasite. I have things that don't make room for you. But they bring you joy. They do. Yeah. Yeah. And at least her destination is the same house, you know. Yeah. That's true though. You can carpool to your side house. I don't make you much money. Right. To our side hobbies. To our side hobbies. Yes. So yeah, moving on to more of like background on the podcast itself, episodes itself questions. What are some episodes that didn't pan out? Maybe this is more of a question from Melissa as like the content developer for many of

27:49the episodes. And you think of anything that you wanted to talk about, but just couldn't find a way to do it or something else went on. One was I wanted to do an episode on cement and concrete. And it was so much more complicated than I thought it was going to be. I remember trying to look stuff up and I was like, I'm going to have to get this book and read a whole like textbook about cement to be able to do this. And it's not like I'm never going to do it, but it's just like, mm, haven't done that. And another is really collaborating with people. So I remember reaching out to someone I know who works in microplastics. He put me in contact with another person. She emailed me. I emailed her back like eight or nine months later. And similarly, there was a weatherman who I loved who was on our local news station growing up. And I emailed him and asked if he would be interested in these ideas. And then I think I forgot to reply. It was like the ADHD kept, it has kept getting me from like being able to collaborate with

28:54people. We also reached out to one of James here at Coffee People. Oh, yes, James Hoffman. Yes. And we were like, oh, would you be interested? And he sent a really nice reply, but ended up not being able to do that. So there have been a lot of guests that I really would like to have that has just been hard to do. So I would say that is probably a big one, but also cement I remember being surprisingly integrated by it. Wow. I never expected that answer. Yeah, because if you think about it, it's like it's like powder and water. And you mix it together and it makes concrete, whatever, all these different types. There's so much more that goes into it than you think. And even just like the difference between then set and grow out like, well, as we're remodeling our bathroom and then like the cement that you lay in the foundation, like, oh, this is different. It's very confusing. Wow. I just even made me think about more stuff about cement. I know.

29:55So I'm like, man, I would like to hear an episode about that. But it's like, well, I don't want to read a textbook either about it. It's still in my mind is something that I'm interested in doing. Yes. I just have had the capacity. I have the scene from the Avengers where Tony Stark is like talking about the weapons or like the, once they call the test rack. And then Agent Hill was like, when did you become an expert in their own nuclear physics? He was like, last night, I read the homework. I'm like, that's Melissa. Every time I was like, wait, you become an expert in some met chemistry. It's like, well, last night I read the textbook. Yeah. That's sometimes how it feels. I'm like, I'm going to learn all this and then teach somebody else about it. So where are some of the ones that were hard to record that you did end up getting to record either because of subject matter or just like practically if there was anything that made a hard to record? I had been really intimidated by film for a long time.

30:57And I finally did it and was happy with how that turned out. There's been a few like that or there was something that there wasn't, was it static? There's something that there wasn't really research about it when we had started. And then when I came back around, I was like, oh, now there's more about this than there was before. So there are a few like that that I remember wondering about and trying to research it early on. And then I was like, oh, there's not good resources on this or maybe I didn't know enough at the time to make sense of the resources. And then coming back to it more recently and being like, oh, I can do this now. I know for sure film was one of them. And I think maybe static was another one of them. Yeah. Again, not things I would like think would be difficult. But even like when people are asking like really simple questions, it's like, oh, how does this microphone get to the like head phone that's like, oh, how did that work?

31:59What's the chemistry of film? Like, I just assume I'm like, it just shows up on the TV. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, but I'm like, that's exactly what this podcast is for. Yeah, probably should be every day live. I should probably do it on LED. That would be really cool. We did one on LED light. Yeah, yeah. But like TV screens and how the colors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's some like celebrities that I really like and they're married to each other. And they play game words like they point to something that are like, and then the other person has to say how that works. And the hardest thing was the TV. Yeah. Like she pointed the TV and was like, what, how does that work? And he was like, oh, wait, I actually don't have any clue. Yeah. So I think that could be really cool to know. That sounds like a fun game. Is that what it's just like growing up with a five year old basically? Yeah. Honestly, there's so many questions where it's like, it's a, it's a mixture of like, how does that work? And do I even know? And then can I make it simple enough?

33:00Yeah. And then I was like, I'm going to make it the other day where I was trying so hard. I was like, I need, how do I make the vocabulary simpler? Like because I know this is not going to, it's not getting anywhere. It's like, it's going right over the head. And I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. It's not relatable to his life at all. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't really. Like coming up with the analogies and he's like, what's that? And he's like, oh, wait. Yeah. I do remember a kid asking me why acid hurts. And I was like, I don't even know how to translate that in a meaningful way. Like do I know I asked you to help me? Yeah. Yeah. It's like when, when Grant asked us what fire is and I was like, what is fire? We did an episode on that. Oh, yeah. Love it. Oh, actually, I remember the question that one of my kids was asking me today. What was it? It was literally just, it was a great question because it's like, it's showing the learning process, how it leads to our questions, right?

34:02So he was asking, how is it that gravity actually pulls things to itself for like a large object? And so I just used the, it took me a couple tries. I was like, okay, imagine it like a big blanket. It was really heavy ball in the middle and it dents the entire blanket and then things start wanting to be pulled toward it. And I was like, now imagine like our social system where it's like a big blanket, but there's a bunch of balls, various sizes and, you know, weights or whatever. And then he was like, all right, because when you have a heavy ball and it's on the blanket, things want to go toward it. They want to roll down toward it. It was like clicking and I was like, yes, obviously I didn't come up with that analogy itself. It's a common one to explain gravity, but it was like, I had to make it relatable objects new of and, and yeah, go very small steps at a time or whatever. Yeah. But it was such a fun.

35:02I was like, this is the best conversation. This was, I love that kids are curious like that. Yes. Yeah, we'll switch to you, Jam, actually. There's a ton of questions for you. I'm not asking all of them. Yeah. Jam, you have a question. But all of them are similar. Yeah. So we can kind of morph them into one question. Well, maybe like a three-parter. Three-parter. So yeah, you've been learning chemistry for seven years now. Have you, or when have you used what you've learned here in your everyday life? Oh, yeah. That's a really good question. So, at least we've talked about in the podcast where it's like, there'll be times. Do you remember that one time I told you I was like, I think I figured out how this thing works because of other stuff. It was your vegetable steamer, your instant pot or something. It was filming and you put salt in it. That was one of them. But it was another one where literally like you asked me, it was like the lesson.

36:06Oh, it was a tire pressure. It was a tire pressure. Yeah. Yeah, I was so excited about that. Yes. It was like, it was all about tire pressure changing with temperature and all that kind of stuff. And like, the list is often she'll ask me if I understand something works or kind of get a baseline of where I'm already out on something. That one's one where like a pretty decent amount of what the lesson was going to be about. I was able to pull together from other episodes we'd done. And some obviously like relatable experience. We've a lot of us have been there with like our tires being lower pressure in the winter and all that kind of stuff. But things like that. And then things that have let me down these rabbit trails like being very obsessed with cast iron. We've talked about a lot. But there are things where like my mother's and law who lives with us will ask something. And I'm like, I do think I think I'd have like a sense of what that is.

37:07Here's what I've been. You're like an educated guest. Yeah, it's like, here's what I bet. Most of us isn't like this. But once you get a layer deeper than that, I wouldn't be able to tell you. Here's probably what's happening or whatever. But I do think what, just kind of referencing what I said a moment ago, what is something I use in everyday life that probably anybody can and does. But that's fun is those conversations with my kids where it's like, there's a, this is like a, I'm certainly stealing things from the podcast and from the ways that Melissa teaches stuff and trying to figure out how to like do a different version of that that is not, it's not recorded for anybody or whatever, but it is, is just like, oh, right. Here's an everyday life question that a kid is asking. I mean, and I have some, some knowledge to draw on that I can explain it in a different way. So that's probably one of the ways it comes up a lot now.

38:10Is there anything else you can think of? I remember I was doing some like bread baking and stuff like that. I was like using the baking soda baking powder stuff and like knowing what I was doing with that and how to like make adjustments was super helpful. Yeah. Instead of just, I mean, anyone could kind of just adjust things and see what happens. But the like, oh, we talked about what these things do. Yeah. I could have a, here's what I want to adjust. So I should put more or less of this or whatever. That kind of stuff is super fun. I definitely feel like Jim approaches the world with more of the perspective of a chemist than probably someone who hadn't been listening for seven years. And I definitely think, I hear about most often in the kitchen, but then also when your conversations with your oldest and Emily has also commented on that. She's, she'll hear them talking and she's like, how did he know that? Some of it is case-free stuff, but other stuff is just stuff that you've been curious

39:12about and wanted to look up. And so I realized I don't think I added this to the list, but one of my friends who asked that question, I think I was, I was gathering from some of our Patreon people. One of them asked, do you even still consider yourself a lay person after seven years of listening to chemistry lessons? I mean, I feel like 100% I do. I mean, like, it's just one of the things that would be, I don't know how most people would define lay person, but it's like, well, I have learned this in a way that like definitely is sticking in my brain. But it's not like I've, it's not like I've studied it in the way that like one of the things that would be really hard for me to do is like reading a journal article and knowing, understanding what I'm reading and being able to like tell what's good, what's well done research and all that kind of stuff. Like, so I don't know, I, maybe you could say like enthusiast instead of lay person, but

40:13like depending on how many options there are on the scale, I want to like make sure that I'm still very on the low end of like, because lots of people not to discourage anyone, of course, but like can listen to or just watch YouTube videos or whatever. And it's good knowledge, but it's not the same as like me being able to help go research something new. Like I don't have those tools. Yeah, I don't have that. And I, that's why you would want to go get a degree as well. Like hopefully it podcasts like this is entertaining to a lot of people helps them see the world differently, but for others, hopefully it was their appetite and makes them want to go like get a degree in it. Yeah. If that really starts to kind of make them curious, but I don't know. Does that answer that? Yeah. I don't want to anger the layer people. I don't want to anger the chemist. So I just, what I had a lot of conversations at the conference at BCCE where I started to

41:14realize like, yeah, we've been doing here for seven years and it's kind of backfire. I mean, because a lot of times I realize we've already talked about these concepts over and over again. And, and one of the people were like, yeah, sometimes I'm like, he's really good. My students wouldn't know that. I'm like, well, because your students I've been taking Gen Kim for seven years. Right. And you haven't been taking it every day for sending here. You know, but you have been really repeatedly exposed to some ideas. And so, but I do appreciate that. Maybe that maybe you're somewhere between like, you're not someone who just took one chemistry class in college, but you're maybe approaching someone who's like, got a minor in chemistry. You have some level of knowledge. Yeah. They are able to access and apply in everyday life. And you do think about the world. I think more with the eyes of a chemist, but maybe not like, yeah, you're not at the level of like contributing. Somebody sent me a really interesting, not that you're not at the level of contributing is podcast. I don't know. I mean, like the, like the, the discipline of chemistry out there in the collective.

42:18Yeah. Somebody sent me, I want to say maybe it was our community member, Timothy, but could have been someone else something where it was an influencer or something talking about how she was going through her candidacy. This is something you've recently experienced. And her parents were saying, like, oh, you understand this, you know, really well. You know, it's so cool to see you talking there with your professors or advisors, whatever. And she was like, they talk in a level that I am not able to do yet. They are, it's like the way they question and think about things. It's like they have their own language and their own way of parsing through things and questioning things and discussing things. And I can sort of engage at that because I've practiced a lot, you know, in this one area, which is kind of what the first stage of getting to that is like, but until you've really been in spaces where people are thinking and questioning and talking in that particular way for a really long time, it can be hard to feel like you're, you know, at that level.

43:23And I think it's really an ongoing process. But listening to that, that somebody had sent me, I was like, oh, yeah, now that I am like the person on the committee. You know, I'm like, yeah, we do think about and ask questions that I don't think when I was on the other side of those questions, I would have asked. But that's like, you know, a very specific subset of people who are doing chemistry in a specific way. But there are lots of people who have undergraduate degrees in chemistry and I would consider them chemists. And they are contributing in just maybe like some more specific ways as lab technicians are working in industry and things like that. So I think there's levels. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of the weird things where it's like you just don't want to, I don't want to take away from the fact that like, you know, a lot of people who would, who would identify as a chemist or like on their way there or whatever, they're like, well, they're really putting in a ton of work. And it's like, we are, this is fun.

44:24Yeah. Yeah. I certainly would not be doing this without the podcast. But have I, I mean, you and I talked about, we've bonded a lot on like, we just like science podcast. So it's like, that's the kind of stuff I would probably be watching and listening to. Yeah. And it's, it's obviously different than studying it. But yeah, I mean, I also think it wouldn't be as fun if I wasn't retaining the knowledge and getting to like, you know, add to it. Yeah. If I had to start from, like we've got memory every single week or something. Yeah. So not fun. Yeah. But what's nice is people can go back and listen to those first ones and get the experience alongside you. Cause that's even like, yeah, two things I thought of just now when you guys are talking. So like the first, like the progression of your guys' episodes, like the first episodes were just about like, what is a bond? What are the types of bonds? And now it's like, oh, no, how does salt help the rose not freeze? It's way more applicable everyday life stuff because you've built these concepts and you retain them and are able to.

45:26And yeah, you're like, oh, we've talked about this before. Like, oh, do you remember this? He's like, oh, yeah, I have, I do remember this. And sometimes he's like, sometimes is like, yeah, yeah. And then I also thought about, I think it's called the Dunning Kruger effect. I think so. Where it's like the less you know about something the more confident you are and like your confidence drops the more you know, because it's like, you know, you know how much you don't know. It's like you're exposed to like, oh, I just so much more. I don't know. So I feel like, jam, you've like have gone down that path. Like maybe not like as a level of like a chemist, a PhD with a PhD, like at the end of the graph. So you're less confident now in a way that like you're more comfortable. You have more knowledge, but you're still like cautious. So I'm like, I feel like that's on the way to becoming not a layperson. Right. It's like, yeah, the more like there's, there's each new lesson we do and the nuances of things are like, there's been a couple like recently we had one. I can't remember what, which one it was, but there was one that we did in the last six

46:28months at some point that was like, whoa, I'm like really having to like work hard to get this. If you remember, look, chime in, but that's always humbling because it's like, well, it's one of these we've done that are using the same, you know, concepts. Sure, I've got that down. But once the thing is compiling a lot of things or bringing us something that we've like pretty much never talked about, then didn't you do have that like, oh my god, of course, there's so many things. Yeah. I've never talked about or that I've never, I've certainly seen like only such a fraction of the applications of them or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I love that there is a name for that effect. I think that's what it's called. I think so too. I think dummy is the first one. I don't remember if it was Krueger, but I have to look it up. I think it's a member. It's like a graph. Yeah. Reading about that and I remember thinking, man, there's a pun here. If I could just figure it out because there's this, this actress named Diane Krueger and

47:30she's in Nashville, Fred here. And so I'm like, the Diane Krueger effect says that something like the longer you blah, blah, blah, blah, the more likely you are to steal the accruals in the next. Yeah. I like it. Yes. So that joke is in the making and someone can steal it, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Jan, this is the last question for you, but I'm just kind of interested in your answer for this. What are like the hardest things for you to understand as like a non-chemist? Or like you didn't take any chemist classes in college. I took one. You did take one. That's a cool. I love that. Yeah. I took one from you. With that. Say it again. Sorry. What's the question again? Oh, yeah. What's the hardest things or what are the hardest things for you to understand? Like maybe where do you have more trouble retaining over time? Hmm. I'm happy with what you'd help me if you can think of like, which was I've struggled to kind of grasp?

48:31Acids and bases is a hard one. Hey. I don't want you there. Not intuitive to me for sure. I always have to remember it's the opposite of what you think. Something you're really good at is visualizing molecules and the movement of molecules and heat transfer. Yeah. You're really good at that particular level. But I think it's just hard to picture those like the reactions of like how things are moving when we can't or like how electrons are shifting to make and break bonds when we can't draw them. Light is consistently pretty hard. Yes. I was thinking I was like, I wonder if light is because this is a hard super hard yet. We've had a lot of light related ones. The Mirage one was freaking me out a little bit. Yeah. And I think anything that basically is pretty hard to get a good analogy for or a visualization of really does kind of stunt my ability to like grasp it, which would be probably everybody.

49:34But it's just like one of those things where a cage we have an episode where it's like, okay, I'm sort of I'm tracking, but because I can't make it like a picture in some way, I am like, I feel very much like I'm just repeating back what I heard, not quite like grasping it and understanding it and saying it back. You know what I mean? Yeah. Another example that could be that one I mentioned off to go look in the list of episodes and receiving a dogma memory. But of ones where I just, it was hard to piece together. I would not be surprised if that episode had difficulty like actually making a good analogy that connected everything, you know? Yeah. Like some of you have to cobble together multiple analogies that can't work together. It's like, well, this parts like this, but this parts like this. But that really makes it hard for me. And I think probably where academic really shine is that they, this might be helpful for everyone in their early stages, but if they can get past that and they don't need like

50:37a picture in their brain for everything that they're doing and they can just kind of go beyond that, probably super helpful because so many things wouldn't be like the way electrons work and are in a cloud of sorts or whatever. Yeah, there's no like nothing to relate to about that. So I think you, there's lots of models and things we just, you don't have them readily available. Right. And one thing people do talk about like as you develop an expertise is something called representational, representational competence, which is like, are you able to visualize the molecules as they really are, but then also use all these models for what they are best suited for. So like when I'm thinking about how reactions work, you know, I'm I thinking about like the distribution of electrons or something called an electron density map that you can think about what that looks like. And it's like a computational model. Or if I'm thinking about different things like, oh, the hand in this of molecules, we've

51:39talked about that before. There are certain ways of representing it that make it easier and faster to tell, okay, what's the hand in this at this molecule. So different representations and the ability to visualize those different representations and apply them in different ways is like a sign of expertise. So yeah. Yeah. That's good. And I'm like, you're already a chemist of you. You're thinking more like chemists, if you have like good visualization skills. Yeah. That's something that I struggle with a lot. And I struggled in chemistry more than I did at biology because I was like, I cannot see this molecule. So what are you talking about? Yeah. But I'm like, if you can spin them around in your head, like that's like great first step. Like you're already pretty much chemists. Okay. I'm sure this is everyone's been away for this question. But what is your favorite thing that you've learned both of you guys? So most in your prep and jam, what's your favorite thing? It can be multiple things too. I think it's fun if you have more than one. Do you have one? Mm.

52:39I'll you go first. I think I've learned to be more confident. Yeah. When we would first get emails where people would like say you're wrong about something, it would be really hard and I would question everything. And a lot of them would be people who didn't really have expertise in chemistry and they would make me worry a lot. But I was doing something wrong or teaching the wrong thing or I even remember talking with my advisor and like kind of crying and thinking like, am I doing more harm than good if I miss represents something or if I share something that's not accurate. Like what if I'm, what if what I'm doing is not good? And she's like, I think, you know, there's lots of benefit you can bring even if you get something wrong. And we try to set the standard from the very beginning like, oh, experts can make mistakes. And the thing is they have the knowledge to correct those mistakes really rapidly or maybe it's only one mistake. Maybe it's like, what do we know right now and we're going to learn more? So like, initially, I think when we did like Teflon and so if there wasn't a lot of evidence

53:44that PFAS were harming us. And then as we went on, it was like, oh, they could be doing these things. And so we like circled back, you know? So I think it's helped me a lot with like learning to be okay with being wrong and being admitting when I don't know things and like, I've grown in that way. But then probably my favorite thing that I've learned chemistry wise is so much stuff that I can take into my classroom. So when I'm teaching all this organic chemistry stuff, you get like one or two everyday life examples like we know in the textbook or whatever. But that's not something that gets talked about very much in classrooms. You're kind of lacking in these context-based examples is what we call them like everyday life examples. And I am able to pull examples of like real life things and share them with my students in a way that I never would have been able to if I hadn't done this podcast. So it's not really one thing, but it's like, oh, yeah, I know that have LAR is a reaction. It's like from a reaction, it's relevant to something we do in class and things like

54:47that, you know, it's like, oh, this isn't that we do in class. And I only know that because I did a podcast episode about it. Yeah. So I think that's probably been something that I've really enjoyed is how much I've learned about. Yeah. Just like all the applications of the stuff that I'm teaching in class that people didn't ever teach me. Yeah, and that make it like enjoyable to go to an Oakland class. Yeah. Every student that I meet from UNT that has any is a biochemistry, biology, chemistry major. Like who did you have for O'Kenneth? And if they say, oh, I had Dr. Clineon. I'm like, then you had a great class. And like, yeah, she was awesome. I'm like, I feel like I actually learned. I was like, I didn't learn anything or I didn't feel like I learned anything. I don't really remember. I was like, I wish I had. I wish I had Dr. Clineon. That's sweet. Thank you for saying. Thanks for talking me up to former students. Oh, I do. I'm like, did you want for a friend? Did you know that? Do you have other friends? I've been on a podcast. I'm like, I feel like I'm kind of an one-killer. Like, okay. Three times now. Yes.

55:48And I'll just keep going up. Yep, absolutely. She sighed, I just threatened her. Really? Like, after that. Man, what a hard question. I feel like we've gotten different versions of this kind of about, if I'm understanding correctly, like which episode lessons have I learned and kind of enjoyed the most or whatever. There's several that just come up all the time and laugh that I think about today. I was walking by near the co-working space, went on a little walk around the block. There's a apartment building that has this really beautiful mural that's been painted around. I want to say it's like a, they're water towers and like that. And I just was walking by thinking like, oh, that mural is really cool. And also, it's super hot outside. And it's just being like, during the elements all the time. I can do that because it's a polymer. It's like this thick layer of polymer that is, you know, on there that is like, it's

56:53just like these kinds of things that pop into your brain that are not just like, I wonder how paint is, oh, I'm like, oh, I know how paint is well. It's a polymer. But everything's a polymer. But then even when I'm seasoning my cast iron or whatever, it's like these episodes are like, man, these are part of my daily life now, you know, in so many ways. It's been very hot since we recorded the AC episode. It's gotten hotter here and been drier as well. And so it's been like, I was thinking, oh, I was in, this one hasn't come out yet. But I was in a friend's office at the co-working space. He used to be in one spot, but he moved into office office. He's also my neighbor. He has a swamp cooler thing and they're like a fans swamp cooler thing. And I was like, oh, is that just a fan or he's like, oh, no, it has a little water tank because it's just swamp cooler. And I was like, I just learned how those work. Like a few weeks ago.

57:55So that's, I mean, there's a lot of things in every life because that's the whole point of the lessons that we do. But there's things that come up on a regular basis that are very fun. And I mean, cutting onions and experiencing the burn. You know, that's like one of our early episodes that still I think about a lot. So I think probably if I really sat down and listed, not like which ones are my favorite, but which ones come up on a regular basis, those will be probably also my favorites. You know what I mean? It'll probably be a really similar list. Yeah. Yeah. That's so fun. I think all the color ones, like I'm like learning that blue or a lot of blues or structure and not like that. I think about that pretty frequently actually. Yeah. Because anytime I see a blue in nature, I'm like, that's probably not a pigment. That's not a pigment. Oh, actually. I know. I think about that a lot. I learned so much of that bird class and I'm like, what the? Yeah.

58:55That's so, and it's just so fun. I love how enthusiastic you guys are about that. So just two more questions. For Melissa. So yeah, how do you still have ideas after the podcast? You've done this for so long. You would think that there's only so many things you can talk about, but yet you still have ideas. I have worried. I asked Jam once. Like, do you think we're going to run out of things to say? And he was like, no. That was like easy for you to say. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to come up with it, but something that has happened is I've gotten, there's times I've gotten kind of burnt out where I'm like, I can't think of anything. I don't care. I don't care about any of these ideas. Like, maybe there are ideas that they just feel hard. I'm not excited. And so we take breaks. And I think that helps. Like, one time we did like those many episodes and that was good. Or we did a few releases in a row this past, this past month, I think, or maybe two months ago now when this comes out. And that was because I was like, oh, I need time to miss this. I need time to like be excited about these ideas.

59:58But a lot of ideas come from our listeners. And then a lot of ideas just come from like everyday life things that come up like my sister and I was like, what's up with red light therapy? I'm not sure I believe about it. And I was like, oh, that's good. That's a good one. Yeah. I'll put that on my list, you know, or when we're remodeling the bathrooms and they came up that I was like, oh, yeah, how does that work? Or just chatting with people. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool of you because it's like, it's not like the idea wasn't good, but because you've either heard it asked from a certain person or you've encountered it in your life and then it creates like the intrigue for you. It probably does make all the difference. It's like, someone emailing something versus you having the question while remodeling your bathroom. And that has got to be so different. It's like, I'm curious about this because I literally was just doing the grow out or doing the heated floor thing or whatever, whatever things you've been doing. Yeah. So many options there for chemistry related things. But like, that'll happen to me sometimes when I find myself not in a set of my chemistry

1:00:59but wondering about like, oh, right, I wonder that actor, where did they come from? What is their background? I find myself like reading the Wikipedia page for somebody. Yeah. But like, I wouldn't have just done that randomly because something maybe think about them or an old movie and I wanted to hear that read about the history of it. But it's like, it's because something put the question and work in my head in a way that connected to something else in my life in the middle of the day or whatever that makes me want to go down the rabbit trail. Yeah. And not it doesn't feel like work or homework or whatever. But a lot of listener questions also take me down the rabbit trail. So it just kind of depends, you know, like how, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with how stressed I am sometimes too is at times when my work has been really hard, this, sometimes the research feels like a chore that I'm not interested in doing. It's like, this is an extra homework that I was saying myself basically. But then when I get a little bit of break, like we just have this summer, I have some time

1:02:01off. I have like a list of ideas that have come up in the time I've been off that I am excited to get back to as opposed to like, I'll have to do this again. I have to go figure out a good thing to do. So sometimes I can get in that space. Yeah. Somehow the idea just keeps coming. Yeah. I do worry sometimes that they are too repetitive. Like we've done so many episodes on polymers and things. But it's just, I think it's still interesting to find how they apply in this space. So tune I think a lot of listeners probably aren't going to episode number one to listen all the way through. Yeah. So like a refresher every once in a while and for the people who aren't like a everyday chemist, it's like, oh, like I don't remember what polymers were. Yeah. So it's like, I think it's good to because repetition is the friend of the adult learner. That's right. Musta good axiom. I read it in an old book about a year ago, a version of that repetition is the mother

1:03:01of all learning. And I was like, I love that because it's like, obviously it's not just adults. It's like everyone. It's up, yeah. Yeah. And the mother of all learning, I was like, that nice. That really puts it in the place of like all learning comes from this. Yes. That's true because we repeat things to kids all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think about like you do math like you repeat a lot of the concepts all the way through. Yeah. And then you just go deeper a little bit. Yeah. Well, I should ask this question back when you were talking about like cement and it being a lot more complicated than you thought. What's something that was the opposite? So was the topic that you thought was going to be super complicated, but then it ended up being easy to find research on or was a little bit easier than you thought? I think film stands out for me as one that I started and tried a lot of times in Gava. Like I had tried to understand a lot and I was like, I can't do this in Gava. But that would be times. And then finally, I don't know if it was just the right mix of us and the right mood

1:04:02and had the right out of all by that point. I don't know. But there was there was a point where I was like, now I'm going to do this today. And it was like not that hard. So that's one that's nice. That's nice. Yeah. Okay. Our final question for both of you guys. Where do you hope to take the podcast? What do you want to see out of the podcast in the next seven years? So loaded question. It really is. I mean, there's things we kick around that we don't put a timeframe on, but like we have made some moves about that would be nice to keep on doing. Like, you know, guests will be super fun. And some of that is like, oh, this certain topic, we could maybe find some stuff about it, but it would be a really cool experience for us and listeners for that to be a guest. And so having Claire, having Nikki has really added to that doing the BCC episodes recently where there's a lot of different people that got to be on those, of course, just something

1:05:04that would be like a really cool, regular thing for us to work in. So the most of those types of that many times, but it's super hard to do. But it would be, it would, it would be worth it, you know, if we could finally do it without it being like a ton of extra work or whatever. Yeah. I think something we both talked about is continuing to do this as long as it's fun. Yeah. As long as it, you know, doesn't hurt our friendship. You know, as long as it seems to be something that is making an impact. And when there have been times in the past, I'm like, oh, shall we quit? Then that's always when people show up in the inbox like, oh my gosh, this made a huge impact on me. So you're like, oh, okay. So we are doing something that matters. And then also I think a big thing is that we, I think both of us kind of decided we don't want this to be our full time job. We don't want this to be our only job. Right. Right.

1:06:05It's like if this could be more than a hobby so that we can justify spending more time on it, that's great. But I think seeing some people become, you know, really famous in like doing a lot of content creation, it's just so the tides can turn really quickly. Yeah. That I think it could risk taking some of the love out of it if we had to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's like it'd be cool to have more time in the background stuff on other things, but not for the sake of making like more content, you know? Yeah. But we, you know, we start with like post reels of the stuff we're already making. And that's the kind of thing that like if we had more time, it'd be great to do that, you know, to give people little tastes and teasers of some cool chemistry facts and stuff like that would be helpful for everybody. That's hard to do. So it's like, we'd nice to have a little more time to do stuff like that, but not be like, oh, if we had more time, we can make twice the episodes or like that.

1:07:07That would probably get not fun fast. But yeah. If we had more time, higher quality versions of the things that we're doing now, I think would be something we're like, exciting, including having guests on, including making more short form content. Yeah. And editing what we have now a little bit, you know, differently, you know, things like that I think could be really interesting. But so I think where we want to go in the next seven years is similar to what we've are the trajectory we're on. Yeah. Yeah. They're probably wouldn't be any huge surprises. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're not planning on quitting, but if it gets to a point where it's clear that it's not enriching our lives or the lives of others, then we will. Where that's a conversation we would be open to. Yeah. We felt it was harming our relationship or if we're like, oh, this is actually just really a drain on us or taking away from other really important areas in our lives, then we would be, I think, both of us would be open to that.

1:08:09But I don't think it's our, on our to do this is to keep going. Yeah. Yeah. And also, I think we've talked about like this summer, we ended up being, there was some crazy stuff with travel and also like having extra episodes with BCC, stuff, which was really cool. But we did talk about like, oh, you know, like having breaks wouldn't be bad. You know, where it's like, if there's been a particularly intense time in the podcast, where there's a lot more work to do certain things or in our respective jobs or lives or whatever, like, it wouldn't be bad. That's a great way to make sure you still love it. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Have a month or two off or something like that. If things are crazy or there's a big life change happening, it's like, there's no, that's a good thing about not being our job. It's like, you can totally do that. There's nothing, there's no rules. There's no, yeah, totally up to us. And I think that's the kind of stuff that that's the freedom that we really don't want to lose that we probably won't. But also, I'll say the job I chose, I chose very intentionally to have time to do other things.

1:09:10Whereas a lot of research professors, you know, they like, it takes up their all their time. Yeah. But I get summers off unless I'm teaching a class and I actually have planned next summer to have a larger chunk of time off. So because I want to dedicate more time to this, this is important to me. So hopefully that can happen. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, thank you guys for having me on and being so vulnerable with answering your questions and stuff. It's been really great to hear your guys' thoughts and just all the behind the scenes stuff on the podcast. So that's so great. And a big thanks to Renee and Mason, the Annette, Stephen, Ashie, Timothy, Claire, not me, Claire, S and Chris for the questions for Melissa and Jam. And of course, all the lovely listeners who are also curious about Melissa and Jam's experience for the past seven years. Thanks for coming, Claire. Of course. I'm asking, it made it a lot more fun than just asking each other the questions.

1:10:14You know what I mean? And you know, any excuse we can have to have Claire back. So yeah, I'm like, please always remember that. Please. And no more wrap up time now. Yeah. I think so. Normal wrap up. If you have a question, you know, mostly we say about chemistry. If we could maybe sneak a couple of like seven year anniversary ones in in the future if you missed a chance to ask one of these, but you can send those to us on our website at chemforyourlife.com. That's chemfll your life.com to share those ideas, questions with us. If you'd like to help us keep our show going, get contribute to come with the cost of making it, you can join us our super cool chem community of patrons, some of whom submitted great questions to this on patreon.com slash chem for your life. That's patreon.com slash chem for your life. You can add free feed at the show. You get a special bonus episode just for the chem community every single month. You get some behind the scenes stuff a little bit and interact with us over there. Sometimes we do some fun things. We did a musical to go on point.

1:11:16Hopefully we will do that again. But those are mostly for us to say thank you for that group of people to keeping the show going, keeping it free for everybody else. But if you can't do that, you can you can still support the show by grabbing some merch on our website at chemforyourlife.com slash store. We have some hats. Some shirts. Actually, we have a lot of types of shirts. We got the inner bike, our forces. We got the A chemistries. We got the collegiate ones. Which I haven't worn mine a while. I guess because it's been so hot. Yeah, winter. I have thought about that outfit and wanting to wear it, but it's too hot. Yeah. It's coming with cooler weather is coming. Those things help support the show and then you get something you get to just have for as long as you want that you can wear one ever. It's pretty great. Lastly, if you can't do either of the things that's okay because you can still help us by subscribing and if you're a podcast app rating and writing or if you're an Apple podcast or Spotify, subscribing on YouTube, leaving a comment over there saying hello. Those things help other people find the show and help us be able to explain the chemistry

1:12:19of their everyday life to them. And so it's super helpful. And you can also just tell a friend if you're really excited about it. Tell a friend. The best way because I mean, you know, they're all recommending podcasts to each other all the time. Yeah. I'd rather let's do a podcast by friend. Tell us a little bit more than one that just got recommended on an algorithm. Yeah. You know. And this episode of chemistry for your life is created by me, Melissa Klinie and him, Jam Robinson and a special thanks to Claire, who is probably one of our most appreciated and definitely our most repeated guests. Yes. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy grad student life. Oh, of course. I am so passionate about science education. So I love contributing. If anything ever happens to me, I'm pretty sure it's going to have to be the Claire podcast mess. So. And we always like to thank each one of our community members, Jam. Could you toss me here? Yeah. Literally just toss me off, actually.

1:13:22Because my laptop is dying. So I'm borrowing jams. I'd like to thank all of our community members. So shout out to Hunter, Chris and Claire, Stephen, Timothy, Katrina, Scott, Vince, Kyle, Bree, Brian, Latila, Rachel Elizabeth, John, Jesse, Doreen, Heather, Ash, Sarah, Avishai, Chelsea, Christina, Jacob, Venus, Suzanne, Erica, Colin, autoclave, Julie, Amanda, Summer, and Dog Day Dan. And so exciting to see this list so long. And so many of you have been with us since the beginning of this seven years ago. So really, it's all because of y'all that we have been excited about and wanting to keep this podcast going. So thank you for making that possible. And cheers to seven years. Cheers to seven years. Nice. Yay, chemistry. Yay, chemistry. Yay, chemistry. We did it.