Where should we begin ?( Esther Perel

0:00Hey, this is Strawberry One Click, Celebrity Anderson. How y'all doing out there today? I hope everybody is doing well. If you're not doing well, let's find a way to get well. Look well, and of course you already know it be well. Right now we're getting ready to turn into Esther Perrell. The question that I'm hoping to explore and if I'm lucky to get some sort of answer to today would be how do I be in partnership with my current partner while also holding the love that I have for my former partner? And how does how does that overlap? How does that look? Is it possible? Yeah, that's kind of the basis of my question.

1:05Ball is here. Or is it possible to be in a new relationship without completely losing everything that the first relationship represented? Any of these? The second and the third more so. I definitely know it's possible. I have been feeling it. I've been with my current partner for close to six years and have felt this presence of my former partner just always there. It hasn't dissipated, but the layers around that former partnership are just so complex. I've recently seen him and so things have resurfaced. And I know it's possible to have multiple partners and that is something that my current partner and I have discussed. Non-monogamy and polyamory. I don't think that is necessarily what I'm asking in this context. That's not what I'm looking for. I know for sure my former partner would not be interested in that.

2:06But my former partner is in the Philippines and I am here in the US with my current partner. So there's a lot of different layers around the complexities of maintaining relationships and particularly like the cultural part of relationships with my former partner who is not American. Give me just a little bit of background. Situate me in your life story and who are the primary characters in this drama? Okay, so I moved to the Philippines about a decade ago and did a few different things there. I moved there because of the Peace Corps and then got out of the Peace Corps and managed to find another job that kept me in the Philippines because I was in love. And knew that it would be very difficult for my partner in the Philippines to make it to the US near impossible unless we were to get married.

3:09So we started the fiance visa route. So things didn't work out due to visa things, relational things, a bunch of things. Then I moved back to the US and without any intention within like a month of moving back to the US met my now current partner and have been with them for close to six years. There was very little time between the two partners and when I left the Philippines for the last time we were deciding to like move in different directions but there wasn't any like. Yeah, there wasn't closure. There also wasn't hurt or anger. Like we were at the airport like very sad and like we'll see each other soon. Like there was still a lot of love and like planning to be in each other's lives. And then I moved back to the US met my current partner who is non-binary. So I went from being in a heterosexual relationship to a queer relationship.

4:12So there was that whole layer. And then for years, I'm truly since I started dating my partner. It was always something we talked about was my former partner in the Philippines and how much I love him and how much I want him to be a part of my life. But the role of a partner didn't necessarily make sense anymore. So how do I maintain him in my life? And then because of everything the world experienced for the years of 2020, you know, to present day, it was very hard to get back to the Philippines. And I just went back in December and saw him for the first time since we left. And I left March of 2020. So right when the borders were closing. And it felt amazing. It felt like no time had passed. I had been preparing for this trip with my individual therapist and my couple's therapist for months. Like I know this is going to be really intense. It's going to be intense while I'm there. It's going to be intense when I come back.

5:13And it was. And where are there other relationships on that side too? In the Philippines. Did they have other relationships? Yes. Yes. So during the time when we were apart, he did have a partner. And for maybe two years, but when he started dating that person, he like kind of disappeared and ghosted me. There was one sort of communication that was like, hey, I have a partner. She doesn't want me to talk to you. So you're not my life anymore. So I feel like I like grieved our whole relationship. And then two years later, she got up and ghosted him and left. And then he started reaching out to me again. Like, I'm so sorry. Like she was actually the one sending you those messages. But you know me. I don't like conflict. I couldn't talk to you. But I want to be in your life again. So we started planning like, okay, the only way we're going to be able to see each other obviously is if I come there. So let's start planning a time for us to see each other. And yeah, we just felt like we had a really great time.

6:18And we reconnected and we were talking about like, what does our relationship look like into the future? And then just like a week after I got back, he just stopped talking to me. So then I was left with all these feelings of, yeah, like, this is taking over my brain and my life. I'm not able to be present because I'm, I'm first and foremost, I'm worried about him. Like it feels like this is completely out of character. But now as more time has passed, I'm like, is it out of character? Like he did this before. Yeah, and I think, yeah, my main question that I like, so right now you're not in contact with him. Well, you don't know why. Yeah, we are not in contact. I am being a crazy person and continuing to call him and message him, but nothing, there is no, no response or sign. Okay. So in light of what you've just told me, what is your question? Which one are we going with?

7:18I think like, yeah, how do I try to maintain presence in my current relationship while still holding whatever this was from this previous, I mean, obviously there's love and I feel like that I can hold in my heart, but how do I like not let this take over my brain and keep me from being present in my current relationship? That's a very different question than the one you had five minutes ago. And in part, it's because what you've just described is that it's not your decision alone. Yeah. What it felt like, what you choose to remember, where you choose to hold it inside of you, what place it takes in your overall story, that's all for you to decide freely. But what the relationship becomes, if it reactivates itself, how it sustains itself, and all of that, that is a joined decision.

8:18And so part of what is driving you crazy is the fact that you're alone with this at this point, you're confused. And for the first time you're losing ground. As in the ground under your feet feels very, very shaky. And I have not yet asked you how does your US partner relate to all of this? What do they say? Or what do they feel? I think they are like supportive, but it's this hard dance that we do of like, I feel like a lot of my relationships in the past have been very secretive around like, oh, there's feelings for someone else, like very, very monogamous without any acknowledgement. And that doesn't feel that is not what my current partnership is, but it also brings up a lot when I'm like unable to just like be present for weeks at a time.

9:22They want to leave you want to be with them. Yeah, and I think that's, yeah, and I think that's complicated in my own brain because I'm like, I don't feel like that's what it is, but I'm also just like, how have I been thinking about this? And for the six years, you know, and like, even being with him for those two weeks that we were just together, it didn't feel like, oh, I'm questioning my decision of whether I want to be in this partnership or this partnership. I feel good in my decision to be in my current partnership, but there's just this string pulling me that feels like, but like, you need to be in some sort of partnership with him. That's not like anyone telling me that it's just like in my heart, it's like this person in the Philippines is someone who feels like a soulmate, but yeah, it's not my decision. And I think that is what is so hard. Tell me, describe the string to me.

10:24What's the pull and what have you been pulled towards? And what does this pull represent for you? Oh, yeah, so much. Right before I left for the Philippines, my parents got divorced. And so that was in 2016. And basically since then, my dad has not talked to me. And so I know there are all these other layers of like the feeling of abandonment and just like being pushed aside or like, not even given the time to explain why there's no communication. So your dad ghosted you and you have no idea. I mean, why? And it hasn't changed for 10 years. Do you have a sense? Yeah. So he goes just you? Do you ghost everyone in the family? I mean, not my three brothers. It's been, which is always so complex.

11:27I was maybe more on my mom's side. And I wasn't really willing to like have a conversation with him until we acknowledged all the hurt he was causing my mom. And for the first like year, we kind of did this dance of like he tried to like have relationship with me and I would be like, I can't until we talk about all of these things, these actions you're doing. He was just like, I won't talk about that with you. Our relationship is independent of my relationship with your mom. And we just could never get over that hurdle. He's never even reached out to me. It's not a matter of like he's reaching out. And I'm still not ready to go about it. Like I have not heard from him for probably eight years. And that was all happening in my early 20s, right as I was going to the Philippines. And then I met this person who I'm sure I just have. Yeah, weird attachments I was with. And I think it doubly hurts because he knows all of this about my dad. And like I was going through all of that during the start of our relationship and like processing all of that.

12:38So he was the glue that helped you tolerate the riff and the breach that you had experienced that you were experiencing with your dad. And he represented something continuous and ongoing in the middle of a thread that had just been torn. Yeah. And in the Philippines, in and of like represents all of that I think too. And so there's like the layer of him being my partner, but then also like living in that place for so many years. But that me living in the place that whole time has the foundation of me being in partnership with him. So I have all of these feelings of this place being like home, but it's not my home, right? Like I am just a foreigner in this place, but it made it feel less like that when I had a partner to like ground me in all of that.

13:41So there's yeah, the complex layers around like am I losing him and my losing this whole like part of my life that feels like it's like you know like I've had like a hole in my heart and then that kind of filled in the hole in my heart. And what else? What does this thread represent? Because the departure was not only I imagine or maybe I should ask it as a question. Was the departure a consequence of the unraveling of the family? With my dad. With your dad and maybe with your mom too. Yeah, I'm sure it zooming out it was not unexpected, but in the moment it happened, it felt very unexpected and super dramatic and like I'm not talking to anyone about it.

14:41I'm just like getting up and leaving one day. It was yeah, it was just a very messy and awful situation and then very quickly after that I left as like yeah, I'm sure a certain away of running away from everything and what number are you? I'm two. And everybody else stayed? Ish, everyone dispersed a little bit within the US. But honestly, I've thought about for years reaching out to come on your show to have a conversation with me and my mom because our relationship was so complex from all of this for so long. And part of me leaving the country was just like I am 22 years old and I cannot support you through. And just you know, she was just at a terrible time and was just constantly experiencing suicide ideation and whether she wanted to be alive or not and how she was going to make it to the next day and it was just a lot, a lot to hold and a lot to carry.

15:47And yeah, so I think part of this thread of my relationship was also just like an escape and like someone to hold me. Yeah, instead of me having to hold everyone. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't just leaving because of your dad, it was leaving because of what it would mean to stay with your mom. Yeah. And it was also being with someone who could take a review a little bit or be there for you when everything at least here was about you being there for everybody. Hey, you got it, you got it. And so when I ask you what does he represent, it's a lot of that. And yet at some point you decided it was time to come back. Even though you imagine that he would come with you, you did feel this is not my place. This was a good transition. This helped me go from stage X to stage X.

16:48But now I need to go back to my, at least my coach, are you back in your area or are you different area? Okay. And interestingly, you did the exact same thing in the US that you had done in the Philippines. I mean, you don't stay alone very long. Yeah. In the good sense of the world is nothing. And you had the same way that you had someone there that helped you enter the country, make a base, situate yourself, be anchored. You met someone here and they helped you and situate. Okay, so you are resourceful. Yeah, very resourceful. It's a compliment not to worry. Yeah. Did you want to go back? What were you going to check out that wasn't in the official agenda? That's a good question.

17:49And yeah, another layer to my former relationship is that we did get married. And I think we had a wedding in the Philippines. He was coming to the US on a fiance visa. So we had a wedding in the Philippines knowing that his family wouldn't be able to come to the US and have a wedding here. And then we would have had 90 days once we got to the US to do the official marriage. He never made it to the US after our wedding in the Philippines because he was stopped at the border for having tuberculosis. So there was this whole other layer. And so then I was back in the US for a while. And he was doing treatment through the US government in Manila to take his tuberculosis medication for nine months or however long it was. But I had like already lined up a job thinking like, okay, I am bringing someone to the US and I need to. So I had a job. But then I went back to the Philippines after that job ended. It was like a seasonal summer job and stayed with him because I was like, okay, he's doing this medication.

18:52And then he's going to come. But then when I was back in the US for those few months, I started to have what you just described. Like I'm like, okay, maybe my time in the Philippines is expiring. Maybe it doesn't really make sense for him to come here. He's 15 years older than me and has a child. And his only job for the past 10 years has been working in a cock fighting arena. And a lot of that was like, what is his life going to be here? Like, is he going to be happy here being used to living on an island and working one day a week in a cock fighting arena? Like, does any of this actually make sense? And how did you answer that question? By going back and trying it out for a little bit longer and seeing like, okay, with all of these now these new things to think about, like, I'm going to go back and like have these conversations in person. When I was in the US and he was in the Philippines for a few months, it was so hard. There were so many language barriers. And I started to realize how like nonverbal our communication was.

19:56And that went for like all of the Filipino friends I had. Like, it was like, oh, we're in such regular contact. And now we're a world apart and like, how do we communicate? So I was like, I definitely need to go back and like, try this out and see just to make sure that I'm like, these feelings I'm feeling being apart are actually true. So I am hearing from you is a kind of a developmental arc. You know, you live in your early 20s. As your life has just been totally turned upside down by others. You arrive there and you meet someone who becomes a very important base for you, which he may or may not even know. In that period of your life, you're not busy thinking, what is the distinction between a love story and a life story?

20:59Because you're living the love story and they blend into one. And since you are there and you're not checking on anything else, there is no need to ask the questions, what will you do if you come to the United States? Who will we be? I can adapt because I am in that very stage of my life where that's exactly what I wanted, a complete turnaround of everything I have known. Here I am. And he provides that for you. He is in his life. Yes. You are the one who is being offered an alternative story. And as the years go by, developmentally, the love story and the life story begin to separate. Not because they're mutually exclusive, but because they don't necessarily live by the same principles and criteria. They don't look for the same things, they don't share the same expectations.

21:59It needs once or twice or three times of meeting, going back, etc. to actually begin to understand that. You may not have put it in those words, but you begin to understand that this thing is not so easily transportable. Right. It lives in a certain ecology. Yes. In a certain language, in a certain landscape, in a certain rhythm, in a certain social environment, and it doesn't necessarily travel. And you begin to feel like I've done the traveling I needed. You evolve. And especially if he's 15 years older, and there was not much flexibility in the time when you were even there together. And he basically stayed exactly where he was when you met him. You have a good sense of, if there's no flexibility at home, there often is no flexibility in terms of leaving home. I'm talking about home as one's entire scaffolding.

23:01Yeah, but you're also right in that he's lived with his mom, his whole life, and so like, he also, the physical home. Like that is, yeah. Okay. Okay. So, in, I'm going to say something utterly, you know, it's the thing that I just popped into my head. But he's helping you. He's helping you. You understand? He's telling you in various ways I can't. That's not, I want I can't, that's not us. What we had is what it was meant to be. What you're looking for now is a different story. Would it be different if he did it and you could have a chance to say goodbye? Or this or that, probably, but you're not somebody who says goodbye. You didn't come here to say to me, how do I say goodbye? You came to ask me, how do I keep it all inside of me?

24:04And then the question is, what does it mean inside of me? Does this story live in the lobby of my life? And every time you enter my house, it's the first thing you see. Or does it live in the cabin in the yard? No, that was going to be the cabin at the end of the yard. So you've gone through all the rooms before you arrived there. And that's a very important storage space. Yeah, that is the essence of what I'm wondering is, yeah, where to put it into storage and how to access it. Because it had, you know, like if history repeats itself, at some point he's going to reach back out and be like, there will be an explanation. Not only if you accepted, you may say. Right. This story, this book is all is finished. This book is finished. It was very important for me.

25:04In this way, it was probably very important for you in a very different way. You got to stay home and be with me. I got to leave home and be with you. And I am building something different. But this was very important. I will never forget this person who literally was there upon arrival. At a moment that was completely unstable and in full disruption. I learned to love with you. I learned to make love with you. I learned so a ton of different things. And you are a major developmental story in my life. Yeah. And it ends when there is a transition to a new stage. Yeah, I think if he were here, he would agree with you. And I just have... Yeah, but I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to you. No. And no, no, no. You tell me what you tell me.

26:05I mean, it's good to know he would like you to agree. It's good to say to you. But yeah, I think he would agree in that. That's kind of what he has said before when he started his relationship after us. You know, you're always in my heart. But I'm now in this new relationship. And I just could not accept that. And I think right now, I'm like, I'm hearing you say that. I'm trying to put it into my body and brain. But yeah, I think... I don't know. I don't know if it's because of the history of my... Not necessarily romantic, but the history of my familial intimate relationships. But yeah, I just have such a hard time. Same goodbye. And yeah, I felt like I was making these deals with him. When we were there around, it's not goodbye. You're going to be in my life forever, but not as my partner. And I'm going to have this partnership.

27:06But I want you in my life. And I'll come visit you once a year. And we can be together. And I think... Yeah, in the moment when we were together, he's like, okay, yeah, I agree to that. And then I think after... It had been six years. And it's just like, everything was flooding back. Again, there's so many cultural things that are hard to navigate. Like what? When you've said it twice now, what's the thing that stand out for you about that? So I have not... I was assigned to live with his sister with the Peace Corps. So that's how I met his family. So I feel like I have close relations with a lot of his extended family. And all of his extended family still lives in the same town. Village, whatever you want to call it. And so when we just went back, my brother came with me on this visit back because he lived with me here for a summer when he was in college. So he has...

28:06We have a lot of shared friends. He was really close with my partner. So we were coming back and we were going to pick up my former partner at a mall in the city. And he let us know right before we were on our way. Like, oh, my whole family is here. They want to say hi. And I was like, um, I don't think so. We haven't had any communication. This is a lot just me and you seeing each other. And so it felt like that was going to be the answer. But then we show up and he's like, yeah, just come meet me here. And then his whole family is there. And they're like videotaping us. And just like, we've missed you. We're so excited to see you. And that's like the initial time we're seeing each other after six years. And there had been so many what I thought to be very clear conversations around like, I have a partner like, I am coming to see you because I love and care about you. And it's been so long and I like want to spend time with you. And it wasn't ever spoken out loud by anyone by him or anyone in his family of like,

29:07are you guys getting back together? Is this revitalizing your relationship? But I... Yeah, it's... And on the flip, we were traveling with my brother. And he was spending, you know, like a week with my brother in me. And so it's like both sides of it. But then when I was asking like, your mom, like, she hugged me and like said, she wants me to visit her the next time I come. Like, are you wanting me to come to your place and like visit your family? And that's all kind of confusing. I didn't know I was like, welcome back there. Because I don't know how our marriage, like, how that lands with everyone. And his family, I'm a little bit more real. You don't take your marry to you? They were all at the wedding. Like, we had a big wedding. But they all also knew like, he was not able, you know, the whole... everything was very in the open around like, okay, he's now being stopped at the place. So you're going to bring your room?

30:08I don't know. That's what I'm... I don't know. I don't know. And so then it's like, if that's how we first met each other, and then we spend another 10 days together, you know, without any of his family. And it feels clear to me that we are not exploring... He tried to kiss me when we first saw each other and I was like, no, like, I want to hug you and like, I love you, but we're not kissing like that. Is there speaking of marriage in your current relationship? No, but just because I feel like... One is enough? Yeah, exactly. Philippine and you cross a bridge. And he's your bridge. And you are at this moment when instead of calling him in this obsessive style,

31:10are you there? Are you there? Are you there? That there is actually a part of you that needs to call or to write or whatever, not to hold on, but to actually say goodbye. And that means walking back to the bridge, because this bridge is going to lift. And then when it's lifted, you can't cross it. There's water. And the call that you need to make, the letter that you need to write, is the one where you walk back to the other side of the bridge. There's no way of doing that that doesn't involve sadness and loss and grief, but also memory, integration and sedimentation. Like it sediments inside of you and it becomes a major period of your life,

32:10but it isn't activated by the urgency and the young feelings that brought you there in the first place. So I'm thinking, I'm in here. Dear ex, I know you. It's okay. Yeah. This feels like one of the hardest things that I ever had to do so far in my life. You've meant so much to me and helped me be the person that I am, about the relationship or lack thereof that we have now, and that we've had for the past five years since I've left, it's too hard to keep holding on to and trying to manage. And as much as I've told you in the past,

33:13I would love to keep holding on and keep pulling you along by a thread so that you're there when I'm ready. I'm not going to be ready to be in a relationship with you ever again. I can't keep hurting you by just keeping you pulled along and telling you, I love you all the time because I know that's confusing. And I personally just can't ever close the door without there being some sort of potential if you ever need me, but I think we need to put a pause on trying to connect with each other because it feels like it's holding both of us back. But I love you so much and I'm so grateful for you. Is there a piece?

34:15Yeah, but I don't really know how to say it. I'm just so worried about him, his health and safety. And when I last saw him, he told me he had started smoking meth again because he's just so sad. And I guess the PS would just be like something that I can't be the one that stops you from doing that. But I hope that you can find your center and your grounding. That's like the essence of my obsessive calling. Yeah, I think the last time when he had a girlfriend or somebody said whether it was him or his girlfriend said stop contacting me. I'm in a new relationship now and that's what I want.

35:18I was able to just be like, okay, no more, I can respect that. I don't want to mess that up. But this time is just, yeah, it's so much harder. Seeing him just look pretty rough and like as if you're father doing to your mother. Yeah. And what you're doing to him. Yeah. And I think that's why I have such a hard time with impermeable boundaries that's like, I don't know. Again, I've never had this heart to heart with my dad to be like, what is the deeper layer to why you needed to do all of this? But it just felt the way he had these boundaries, so to speak with my mom and me of like no contact, no communication. These are the things I'm willing to talk about. These are the things I'm not willing to talk about. Yeah, it just felt like there was no ability for anybody else to show up and have a partner. And I think this is like my bigger frustration with who he is as a person is just like this power.

36:24And like, it's also the suicide entity in the myth. Exactly. Yeah. So you're making the connections. And I just never want to like, yeah, I just, I do love and care about him. And even if I'm having this boundary of like, I can't keep doing this whole back and forth. And like, yeah, obviously I've pitched it to him of like, I want you in my life and I'd make room in time to see you for one month every year if that was possible. Like, I've expressed what I want and like what I would be willing to give. But yeah, I just worry so much. And like, there's such a big war on drugs in the Philippines in it. But you're also telling me, I'm desperately trying to not have separations that are cutoffs. Yeah. To maintain an open door. To not leave people who then want to harm themselves. And I'm learning.

37:26I'm learning to say I'm not cutting you off. But I'm not continuing to promise you all kinds of things which I am actually not going to do. And there must be a way for me to say goodbye without having to feel responsible over your life. Because that's the other flip, that's the other extreme of what you feel you dad did from my care about nothing to, and responsible for your life. Yeah. Which is why you left in the first place. So, you can write this letter two, three times until you send one version. It's for you more than for him. Yeah. Yeah. I think that handwriting will be more powerful than typing. And this is a practice for you to say goodbye to end in a way that is very different from the experiences that you have had around breakups.

38:28You have to find a middle ground. Yeah. And I mean, I think my job and my personality of like being a caretaker, caregiver also led me to reach out to you. Because I'm like, I've been holding this and swishing around and going to therapy weekly for years. And nothing has, there hasn't been any progress, right? And then I tell everyone in my life, I'm going back to the Philippines. I'm going to see my accent at virtually everyone is like, not a good idea. Yeah, like, why are you doing this? Except my partner, honestly, my partner is like, no, this, you kind of need some closure because this has been like an open door from the get go of our relationship. Right, but you didn't come back with closure. The closure is something that you're facing now. Right. Which is why his reluctance to be in touch with you is, is helpful. But you need to do something with it.

39:29It's just a raw material. Right. And you need to shape it. Yes. You need to shape it by deciding where in the house you want to put it. So I would like you to make a box of memorabilia. That belongs to this phase of your life. And to this relationship. Could include clothes, natural objects, cards, receipts. You name it. And just make a beautiful box. So it's always visible if you want to, accessible if you want to. But it's gathered. You gather the memory. You gather the transition. And then find a place in the house where to put it. That's a really good idea. Everything is just... Because it's spread all over. And it's permeating. And, friendy, you have a very generous and understanding partner.

40:31But at some point, we also say, you know... Exactly. Can we tighten the belt a little bit? Exactly. Yeah. I feel like that's where the urgency of the conversation comes in. It's like, yeah, they were so willing to let me go and explore, you know, like... Closure, whatever. And I like knew we both knew coming back. It was going to be hard. And it's obviously hitting a lot harder than expected. And yeah, so they're also at the point of like... It's okay take your time. And also... Yes, I'm not here forever. Right. So I got it. So that what made this urgent is that it was not nearly as much closure as I think your partner hoped it would be. Or even you for that matter. So I like representation. You let us go into the box if you want to. The box can be totally beautiful. You don't have to be just a plain shoebox.

41:31Or you can beautify it. But it is a place where you bring together the essentials. Of those years. Then you'll decide if you want to have a formal goodbye. Or if that is your own personal little closure. And that that suffices, that does it. I want you to then take your partner, your current partner, and show them the box. I am here. That doesn't mean you never think about a Philippines or think about it. But basically I am here. Your role as Penelope waiting for me to return is coming to a closure. That two needs to get a closure. The box is not glued. Right. You can open it anytime. But it is contained. It needs to be. You don't feel like you are flooded and confused and unable to ground yourself.

42:35You can do all the breathing. We can do all of that too. You can do the walking, the movement, the breathing, the holding of the heart, everything you want. But there is also the symbolic way to contain this. To bring the pieces of the experience and the memories into a safe, contained box that I can open and close. And that is not activated by obsessive rumination and phone calls and responsibility over his being alive or his using and all of that. What would be the opening line of the letter? And we would close with that. But just only the title of the letter if you wanted. Again, I would have to come back to the eloquence. But I think part of what I would want to make sure is in the title is gratitude, love, and closure.

43:42So some gathering of those things, like thank you. You've helped me in so many ways. I will never stop loving you. And we can't keep doing this dance. No, and I came to see Goodbye. This is an eye. Yeah. Which I've never said to him. Even all the times that we've, you know, this is a goodbye on a border and just like, okay, we'll see each other. Yeah, it's never been goodbye. I feel allergic to goodbye. Yeah, like I think it's reframing the way that I think about Goodbye and not in terms of like how Goodbye has been said to me and impacted me in the past of like no more communication. Don't talk to me. Goodbye can also be. But that doesn't have to be so in your face, never a part of anything ever again.

44:47Correct. That's it. How to say a final goodbye for what we have had and what we have been. Right. Which is true. Like that does need a goodbye because I keep saying over and over again, like we can't be partners anymore. Like I am essentially saying that but it's, yeah, I think it's so not direct and I think it's confusing. We can't be partners is an observation, a statement. I came to say goodbye is a verb and action. And this is difficult that you're going to take action for the final goodbye and I'm going to say goodbye to you too. Okay.