What will happen if America attacks Iran? | Jerm Warfare

0:30我的名字是Jerm,這是Jerm Warfare, 《The Battle of Ideas》 Trump gave his very big state address, I think it was yesterday And I gave it a very big ignoring All of course, of course, it's the same every year But the thing I want to point out is that he again made threats about Iran Now, how dangerous do you think this whole American Iran division actually is? Is it just wordplay? No, no, it's very dangerous I mean, everybody that I know is off the view that this is not just wordplay, this is serious and he is going to do something significant and the reason that it's taking so long is because as was discussed on Wednesday's news program with Vanessa

1:31it's apparent that they are intending that this would be a multi-faceted strike so not just weapons from the United States but also proxies deployed from Syria through Iraq from Azerbaijan, from Pakistan even and incursions across the border from people that have been funded and armed as usual by UK, US, EU So basically internal strife plus the bombings plus external agents of the state of the US all heading the Iranian government at the same time But now just before we get into any kind of confusion because when you get into the details you can very quickly lose sight of the big picture Let's just go back a few steps

2:31Why? What is the issue with Iran and America? Are you on first Charles? Well, I think it depends how far back we go I mean, as it does with anywhere but that is an extremely big question Well, put it in these terms then What is the United States issue with North Korea? What's the United States issue with Iraq? What's the United States issue with Libya? What's the United States issue with Syria? What's the United States issue with every country that the United States has carried out some kind of regime change Operation Venezuela, Cuba I mean, the list goes on They have geopolitical aims and we don't necessarily know

3:32what all of those are We hear we get a narrative in the mainstream press for what they would like us to believe the reasons are and what did Afghanistan do? Well, we know what Afghanistan was said to have done but the truth is what Afghanistan did was they stopped the production of opium and that's why following 9-11 the United States and Britain invaded Afghanistan for no other reason and as soon as they got into that country they started the drug trade again. Now, in more recent years then you say, well, why did they leave Afghanistan? Well, they left Afghanistan because opium is not relevant anymore because artificial opiates exist. And so, you know, there are reasons that are publicly made available. Iran has been on the US at list for what 30 years.

4:32But openly, we need regime change in that country. But, you know, there are many reasons why the United States decides that a country needs a different regime and some of them are public and some of them aren't. Yeah, I mean, I think where I was going was concerning the specific, not quite factors or all the blocks that when put together point towards a country that has a degree of stability and independence and financial security that threatens the United States paradigm

5:32or the Israeli paradigm? Well, yes. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that, again, is another big part of it. But, sorry, therefore, the history what I think is fascinating is to, especially, if you consider the geography of Iran, what is it that has led to modern day Iran and what it is? How has that been possible? And that perhaps is a question too big to quite get to grips with today. But, you know, the meddling, I mean, previously by the British in particular, but in that part of the world has been going on for millennia. So, I think in some many respects, it's just completely fascinating to see that Iran in 2026 is, well, I suppose, it's in a way able to be somewhere that is able to

6:34present itself as a challenge, a threat, you know, a problem to the United States, to Israel, to the United Kingdom. Yeah. So, I think that's a bit that I find fascinating. I had the great pleasure of interviewing an Iranian journalist, well, the name of Storis Deirky. I'll try and get her back on, actually. And she said it pretty much goes back to 1979 when the Iranian government got rid of the Western stranglehold. You know, the Iranian revolution now depends on from which perspective you are looking. But from her perspective, it was a good thing because it returned a degree of sovereignty to Iran. And I think that the one factor might be that the US just can't handle this.

7:34It doesn't like any country that it can't have a manipulative effect over. I think, look, the Middle East, that part of the world is from a strategic and trade point of view absolutely key. Control of that is absolutely necessary. And, obviously, what Russia, China, the BRICS countries are doing with the Belt and Road is a threat to Western Hegemony. I think that was it RFK talked about Israel being America's aircraft carrier in the region. This is absolutely fair comment. And Israel is there to maintain control

8:37through destabilization. Let's put it that way. It's divide and conquer again and get a base of operations in that area, destabilizing influence, make sure that there can be no real cooperation between countries in the area because some will favor a Western alignment, some will favor an Eastern alignment and keep the thing from ever getting to the point of them from a unified standpoint, the benefits of not being Western aligned. But what they don't want is a competition for trade. And that is a key region for that. Iran is problematic. Iran is working

9:39with countries that the West doesn't like. But more than that, Iran has managed to get itself in a position where it is not reliant on other countries. It's not reliant on other countries for its self-defense. It's got its own military industrial capability. It's got a very advanced military industrial capability or when the United States actually starts this action. It's not going to be a free ride like it was with Iraq, for example. So clearly, that's why they're taking this strategy of hitting a run with pretty much everything they've got. That's clearly, you know, based on what we're saying, they've got internal

10:39destabilization, destabilization run in the borders, plus whatever the United States does because distracting the Iranian military from the big target, which is those two aircraft carriers has got to be, you know, that has got to be something that they want to achieve and we'll see. But whether they achieve that or not, I have no doubt that if the United States starts this, they will suffer casualties. This is not going to be an easy ride for them. Yeah, I mean, the previous attempt just what a month or two ago didn't end very well for the US and for the UK. Yeah, I mean, I think this is the bit that I do find fascinating because I mean, there's no way in which they can't

11:39know this. It's not like where you can be sitting here thinking Iran would give a pretty good account of itself. And that the United Kingdom armed forces have worked that one out as well. And I think going back to what Vanessa was saying on Wednesday's news program about about the use of proxy forces and this and the other. Quite how this will be conducted will be well sort of dreadful but fascinating at the same time to see because compared with any of the engagements that those countries have had, the US and the UK have had in the last few decades, it would be a totally totally different thing. And therefore they will have to think very long and hard about how they're going to try and make that happen. Because the

12:39you know, on the on the one side of it, the ability to maintain any kind of combat effectiveness in the face of that kind of a non-stop would be a huge challenge. And then you've got the public opinion. And this is the bit that, you know, going back to your opening remarks about the Trump's address. I mean, again, I covered a little bit of this on Wednesday but what he did use it to do was to was to sort of grandstand about the capability the United States capability and you know, how much he's achieved how much they've achieved in this period. But I mean, again, going back to Mike's point. These were these rule in in engagements that whether it was a sort of wasn't really a contest. I mean, and for a start, they shouldn't have ever happened.

13:39And the United States shouldn't have been there in the first place. Okay, exactly the same in any meddling in in Iran. But but you know, how to they have set, but based on in the interests of America, it's very hard to see how they will actually progress this without a significant deterioration of their own forces and a massive drop in public opinion. But I, you know, perhaps I will be proved wrong. You see the thing that we haven't yet talked about, but we did a while ago was the the looming sense that there was going to be a false flag in Iran, either on British or American soil or both. And that's absolutely. It's almost as if that's gone off track. I mean, that was, that was the case at the beginning of 2025 when they were, there was a lot of talk and a lot of legislation and whatnot about what was being called foreign influence. And you know, they were very much setting the

14:39setting the scene for a foreign Iranian false flag. Now that, that sort of, they tried a couple of things, but basically that hasn't actually come to parts. And of course, that would be the one thing that would swing it. Because now people are clinging on by their fingernails to the Ukraine narrative, the sort of, you know, British security is Ukrainian security. And the Russians will be over here before we can say Jack Robinson actually turns out no one's really believing that anymore. Whereas if suddenly something goes bang and it's got an Iranian label on it, that would change things quite dramatically. Well, that looks as if there was foreign interest in Mike's camera. But it's nice to see that you're back. That has annoyed me immensely. So that's twice that's happened. It is the browser that's causing the problem. Okay. Well, at least you're back. Sort of. But you were shaking

15:39your head there, Mike. Were you disagreeing with Charles? Or were you just checking it at the camera? Not at all. I was just wanting to lose control and swear nicely, but I didn't want to pull it. You're recording with me complaining about the problem. Um, what do you think could happen if it was a US strike on Iran? There's no doubt about what will happen if there's a US strike on Iran. This will escalate. So, you know, because inevitably, for example, Hezbollah is going to get involved. And Israel has already said that if Hezbollah gets involved in any way, then they are going to attack targets in Lebanon, for example. But, you know, this, this will undoubtedly expand beyond Iran. I mean, who knows where it will end,

16:39but it's, it's, it is an extremely dangerous situation. But, but, you know, even for Trump, though, for him personally, it's going to be hugely interesting to see, um, how this affects his, um, his personal brand because he was elected on I'm not going to start any wars. And he's busy at the same time that he started wars in all kinds of places, including, you know, he's attacked Venezuela and other stuff. He is busy saying, oh, I've stopped it in a half wars so far. Well, is he going to, is this going to be, if he, if he obliterates Iran, if it gets to that point, and he succeeds in obliterating Iran and destroying their capability to defend themselves. Well, he then say, I stopped another war. Yeah. Of course.

17:39I mean, the guy's office head at the moment, as far as I can see. Well, yes, but then again, he is, he is learning how to play the game. And, um, going back to the false flag thing, you know, he, I think he must have had dinner with Alistair Campbell recently because he did, he did, of course, talk about, um, they can do it, but, but basically the sort of 45-minute claim, you know, oh, well, Iran could be, could be targeting the United States with its weapons within, well, I don't know if you actually said 45 minutes, but I mean, he is, um, he is absolutely warming people up for this. And I think with his, um, with the family line on Israel, I don't think it would take much convincing, uh, for the public to, to be absolutely on-site with, um, I'm the president of peace, and we're going to blast

18:39Iran. I think people would be very happy to go along with those two things being true at the same time. Uh, do you think Trump is actually though in control? What? Um, no, no, no. No, Trump's not on control. No, no. No, oh, no. No, no, no, Trump's barely in control of what comes out out of his own mouth. No, he's, he's not on control. And, and the thing is, the people that arrived of, have clearly worked out how to play him, very well. Um, and, and ego is, is 100%, the main mechanism as far as I can see. So, uh, no. He's, uh, he's 分析香港的問題, 我決定要交通驚奇的問題 。 I think another looking at this potential conflict in Iran is, who benefits?

19:39因為, I can't see the US actually benefiting. 那當然是一 matter of the US benefiting. 這 matter of Israel benefiting, the first instance. Israel benefits because they get rid of their only real competition 而在印度推出原金 對 對 美國的 修理 因為 卻打擊了 而即使 連接 對 而 卻打擊 美國一動 一動 卻打擊 對 一動 而即使 連接 而即使 因為 並非 要在日本 對 而 當然 你光看 你以為 你需要 對, 他們會說他們會做甚麼,對嗎? 那些人會說自己是否被人弱 對,我認為他們是否能做甚麼 他們當然有責任 這是怎樣的事 就是他們不會知道他們會做甚麼 但他們有, 他們會想起

20:40有一個發展物, 他們會說 他們會說 他們會想起 他們會說 他們會說 又是有一點接觸的 國際職業 以及我們的責任 在那裏面卻未熟悉 可是問題是 不明的意義 如果沒有那個事 就開始通出 它就能夠出席 而抽取也會變得比較原因 但是那這樣 那些部分 例如那些 那種地方 像भेग 我們也不能感受 因為阿卓相信 Impact is a capability. Now whether that is Whether that includes nuclear weapons, they say not And, unlike Israel, I have no particular reason to disbelieve what they're saying there. Because certainly I haven't seen any evidence that they actually have nuclear weapons. They have insisted that their

21:40nuclear programmes through civilian nuclear energy purposes only. And nobody has demonstrated any credible evidence—I indicated that it's 但 large market的 nous 是有幾原因 以及在哪兒搜索捩壩 這些東西 而且有兩瓶 遇上擒控資本 同樣可能不高興 而年輕而狀率 最終原因是 既邊壩買過 大距離 發生也不太成為 在中央有一个讯息的写讯 在南南平台 如果南南平台有什么写讯 什么写讯 有什么写讯 有什么写讯 所以 华人 协讯 华人 华人 华人 协讯 华人 华人

22:41华人 华人 华人 华人 华人 华人 华人 Trump said that he won't allow Iran to have nukes 我聽到這個 2026, the U.S. has a total of 5,277 nuclear warheads with 1,770 of those warheads deployed and ready for use But Iran isn't a loud one There's only works one way, all of this stuff It is a very difficult predicament that Iran is in and in effect broadly the Russia has been put in the same position and that's sort of where they've been for the last four years I mean, in OK, the parallels are not complete but the trouble is if they are to do anything

23:43then clearly that's regarded as a green light for unleashing absolutely everything at them so, you know, which of course they will know so the whole thing, the whole thing is a trap in exactly the way that Russia has been trapped and it is very difficult but the, I mean, really frankly, bearing in mind that it's us that pay for all this it's the dishonesty that is just so utterly unbelievable on all of this I mean, the background to any of these stories when you examine it is just one gigantic minefield of lies from our side, from the West it is absolutely dreadful and I'm not saying that we have necessarily a completion not really online but I think we get told more lies per day than most

24:48Well, listen to this Israel's nuclear weapons status is more complex than most countries because of its policy of nuclear ambiguity Israel has never officially confirmed or denied having nuclear weapons that probably means they do it's more than probable I mean, everybody it is an open secret everybody knows that Israel has nuclear weapons that's there's not really any debate to be had about that they don't officially admit but at the end of the day, this is the main issue because did you say the United States has 5,000 whatever, how many could Iran possibly have even if it had any, it might have one or five or ten but this is clearly not a threat to the United States the other problem is they don't have a delivery system

25:50that can reach the United States it does despite what Trump may have said at the state of the nation speech that Iran might have a capability of reaching the United States at some point a delivery capability that can reach the United States at this point it doesn't have the only country that could possibly be threatened by Iran and nuclear weapons would be Israel and bearing in mind the prevailing winds would they do that? Anyway, I don't know I don't think it's you know, the whole thing is just a setup a justification for the action that's being taken here at the bottom line is the regime Inverted commas is not one that the United States and the UK wants to be friends with and so it has to go at whatever cost and then anything else is just fluff it's just excuses

26:53Alex Crana was on my show for UK column I think last year sometime and he argued that Trump is in favor of multi-polarity I don't know if I buy that argument and this is an example of him not favoring multi-polarity or maybe it is what do you think? Yeah, I mean I would do you remember how it was that Alex sort of substantiated that well he was making the argument that that Trump does like the idea of competing economies I don't see that I have to admit I don't see any sign of that whatsoever he's I think Trump is forum and obli he wants he wants to be winning

27:54the game every time he you know and so if it's all about the art of the deal for him the deal is that he wins and the other person loses there is no win-win concept in Trump's mind at least I have not seen any evidence of it Yeah I do agree it doesn't I wouldn't have said it looks like I only just disagree point blank with that point of view but given what we've seen with all the you know the tariff stuff just as a most serious example and then and then Greenland and Venezuela I mean it I don't know to me that that's um that is very much suggestive that he is intent on gathering up all the various strings he can and again the well it's just you know the way in which in particular the the Chinese and the Russians

28:56are spoken about is not um I don't know I really don't get the sense that they're regarded as um competitors certainly not in a um you know constructive or positive sense it's always with a you know that there is an element of threat or menace more more than an element of threat or menace and therefore it is important that um that that America is dominant in order to control not just the economic conditions within which other companies are countries are able to operate but but also the um you know the sort of military slash security situation too I'd I'd yeah I mean yeah I think it's very little evidence of that right now but um and and what you know what would what would change that I know no I mean in Alex's defense I would say the situation has changed somewhat in the last in the last year so so if he was if he was making those

29:58comments at some point in the middle of last year then then you know that's that's a different world and it's it's incredible how quickly situation is changing yeah I mean it's not a steve at Alex's by the way it's just a very interesting point to view and and that's exactly it that's why it's you know reference the the tire of thing at all and indeed the other things that have happened since because um yeah again this is a crystal ball element you know could could one have considered that um that this would be uh on the cards yeah actually some some of it definitely I mean the I think I think well we've talked about it before but the certainly the green and canada piece that that that that is a rehash of something's been going on for a long long time and um so there are there absolutely are things that keep coming back to the surface but you're just not quite sure when it's going to happen and um here on is exactly one of those

31:01if further u.s does unleash the cracken on on Iran what what will the British government do well this is an interesting question because uh you know the last we heard was that that stammer had refused the United States uh permission to use British bases uh to launch this from um now whether that's still the situation or not I don't know uh because I haven't seen any update I don't know if you've seen anything Charles but but that was that was the last we heard um now in the past uh with respect to Syria with other regimes well actually maybe trunk one I can't remember but in the past uh you know if if Britain said no the United States didn't go ahead and so so this again is is another indication that um you know the the the

32:07traditional British U.S. alignment on geopolitics isn't there at this point in time now my particular suggestion for why that is isn't that um it isn't that on long-term basis the U.K and the U.S. are no longer friends or that they don't have a special relationship anymore because I think that special relationship was always about the deep state intelligence agencies and that kind of thing anyway but I think this is more about um the effort to force the European Union down a path and so uh for the meantime um Britain and the United States are presenting the idea that they are not uh as close as they have otherwise being I think it's fake and it's all about driving uh try trying to drive the Europeans to to um get themselves much more aligned

33:10together on a war footing than they are they're sort of still pushing back against it a little bit okay but now you mentioned Europeans so uh I mean I asked about the British government uh what about NATO what is NATO right because because what we have is is the United the United Kingdom regime and we have the European Commission forget about the European uh member states because it makes no difference what they think it's what the European Commission and the and the UK thinks and that's that's what's driving NATO's policy at the moment so NATO is that whatever happens in Iran isn't going to be a uh effort because because it's not going to be a UK effort at this point and the relationship between the US and NATO I can't figure out what's going on there no it's completely fake this this this supposed split is

34:12completely fake Jarm this this is something that Trump started in 2017 was a 17 or 18 when when the new NATO headquarters was opened in Brussels kind of remember the 17 or 18 and and Trump was already making uh you know noises about NATO not being fit for purpose but he still went there he still opened the the place he still presented them with their their uh big piece of so structural art which was a uh a piece of metal allegedly from the World Trade Center which is sitting outside new headquarters and and they lined up all the EU leaders there like like naughty school children while while Trump gave a speech which said you guys aren't spending enough you're very naughty children you're not spending enough on defense and they and at that point they all laughed at them they were all sniggering in in a line sniggering behind their hands um but they're not sniggering anymore right because because the United States has in their minds provided the the lion's share of the of the defense

35:14capability of the EU US bases in the EU in Germany and Poland and in other countries have provided the protection that the EU feels that it needs from from the east and the United States is not guaranteeing that anymore but but it's but it's it's all about uh what Trump said in 2017 he said you know you are you're taking away I can't remember the exact language that he used but he basically said you're taking the mickey because you're expecting the United States to pay for this you need to put your hands in your pockets so I think that's I think that's what this game is with the game between the relationship between the US the UK and also the relationship between the UK and the EU is all about that and just to feed into what you're saying the Secretary General of of of NATO congratulated Trump on his um

36:14attacks on on your run and he seems to be pretty supportive of the whole thing but Rudd is a nutcase but he is a Secretary General he said he's a nut job but he absolutely is he would blow up this world that man yeah so yeah I mean which but yeah but my point Mike is that it it's it's it's aligning with what you said that it that it is theater that there's no real there's no real conflict between the US and NATO no there isn't but Charles what are your thoughts? no no I mean that's exactly what I see now you know using router as an example I mean he has he is saying he's always parroting Trump word for word on um the you know the sort of the requirement to spend this and deliver that but no no I mean it's it any sent any um

37:19messaging about there being discrepancy's all differences are just that they're not really born out by what one sees I mean the you know whether it's just the civilly language that's used peace through strength or deterrence of a particular thing a particular place I mean whether or not they're doing it under a banner that says NATO on it all that says um anyone else that they are all basically doing exactly the same thing with critically you know going back to who benefits with the same bits of kit the same ammunition and uh the same technical um capabilities inputs the same data sharing and all that kind of thing and I think that's the um that that's really where we should worth sort of what one should look at in order to determine um what's going on and uh

38:20and yeah who who benefits um and and there is you know this this is what has changed so much over the years and we've talked about this a lot with regard to uh other industries but but actually the the way in which military activity is conducted has has has evolved or has changed it just uh absolutely hugely because of the way uh everything has become technologically enabled and I know I've talked about this a little bit before I mean obviously this is something Mike in particular has been concentrating on I think on um UK column a lot over the years but the uh the way in which um control of various elements of hardware and communications capabilities and what not

39:23gradually governments and militaries have lost more and more and more control over what they use how they use it and um what information they have compared with or they have to themselves you know the sort of the the partnership or the the overlap or overlay of a military capability with the you know with a with a sort of civilian dimension I mean that it's it's just it's a totally different thing now it really is and I like it yeah gone yeah I was going to say France and Germany are wanting to you know throw sanctions on your own you know when you think about this right you have a population in this country that is just going to suffer and I would I would also argue that Americans are going to suffer yeah yeah let's let's let's let's be realistic about what it is we're

40:29facing at the moment we have we have a Western the Western nations economies are at the end that that is a fact right the death blow forget about 2007 2008 that was that was bad enough but the death blow was was the COVID tyranny as Charles put it on the news program on Wednesday right that that that has absolutely pulled the rug out from any possibility of of building a new economy but on top of that we have systematically destroyed our manufacturing capability over the last decades and what are we doing instead we're we're trying to use the massively massively over leveraged banking system and the banking system is now as bad as it was in 2007 in the run up to the financial crash right we are there are more and more voices starting to talk about this

41:31now we are staring at a major banking collapse but we in the meantime we have roads that we can't drive on we have power systems that don't can't deliver enough power with food systems that we can't feed ourselves with right we have situations which are unrecoverable without money and we don't have any money because we're so leveraged in debt that we can't pay for this and now on top of that we've stuck this war policy on the over the over the top and now we're expected to spend greater and greater amounts of GDP what GDP there is no real GDP left in any of our countries right so so what options are there at that point because the backers are not going to allow for any kind of restructuring of that because that means they lose everything so what they're doing is just playing another shell game here

42:32if you think about what happened during the COVID-19 we had the we had economy shut down we had more and more debt being taken on and where did that debt money go to it went straight into pharmaceutical companies and the pharmaceutical companies got huge quantities of profits for nothing I mean even if you believed in the vaccines the jobs what if you want to call them even if believed in that a significant proportion of what was manufactured is still setting on the shelf somewhere it was never used that's probably out of date now so most of that money was wasted it was all it was all debt then the track and trace systems what much is Britain spent on track and trace 30 billion pounds right all debt so debt debt debt debt were leverage the health there is no option at this point but to go for a war policy right now what are they actually doing in the meantime because everybody

43:35knows we've been talking about this for long enough everybody knows that the the UK and the EU in particular the US still lesser extent because they spend huge quantities trillion dollars a year whatever on defense on war I should say but there's no way that that that Britain or the EU can prosecute a war with Russia but but what we're doing is we're creating the environment whereby they can demand more and more taxpayers' money just gets funneled straight into defense companies so they're effectively playing the same shell game with defense companies now that they were playing with farmer companies in 2020 and 2021 and this all our money all our futures is just being pushed into profit and inverted commas for for war mongers well that's that's just more assets stripping of you and me and assets being moved into the hands of a fewer and fewer number of people at the very top people who have

44:39if they haven't already built their underground bunkers they're in construction at the moment right because we you know we've seen how many stories have we seen about these wealthy people building their underground bunkers so what are they intending now it's not too late to stop what they're intending because it don't think it's going to happen this year but it might happen it might who knows because because the game that they're playing is is dangerous and it could go anyway but I don't think their intentions to start anything major this year but you know so they're still potentially time to stop it but people have got to recognize the situation we're in before before they can consider what they might do to to change the direction of travel here well you've just answered the question earlier about who benefits and you've also kind of highlighted the great taking that David Webb has has so eloquently spoken about the bankers the early gocks the bankers are one

45:40one part of it yes for sure but it's not just them it's it's it's this entire oligarchical class that we have running across the banks across the corporates and and politicians are just the the middle managers for this and not even very good ones because they can't sell their their rubbish narratives nobody's buying it I do I do wonder though what I mean you said you don't think anything big will happen this year but the way Trump has been talking I mean I suppose it's typically Trump though yeah it's not just him I think he's he's the obvious he's the obvious one because the way he says stuff it does get more attention I mean he just is delivery alone but I think he's not really saying things that other people aren't absolutely pointing towards and and I think just to just concentrate on what

46:43Mike has just described I mean I think this is the this is the critical point that a lot of people are probably not understanding is that these the sequencing of this is um is absolutely very deliberate to to have set the set the financial system sort of sort of overturned it from 2020 means that the you know war is is a logical conclusion at that point or after that point you know the push towards and then the the delivery of because first of all if you're when you're controlling and communicating with your population war I mean let's say an invisible illness is a pretty good one but war is a very very good you know perhaps the best tool for controlling people with I mean the most obvious

47:46well this would be the time you know identity cards for example during the second world war of course people you know people in the United Kingdom carried identity cards so to all this discussion we have now about digital identity you know well you know it's sort of happening by itself and this and the other yeah it would be but but were um were there to be uh a state of war entered into sort of formally then then that would be that could be one of the sort of the overnight switches so I think I think the uh some of the reason that this being held back to a sudden extent is because there is just more there's more groundwork to be done and you know this goes across so many things all the those things that do have dates on them like the 2030 you know all the stuff that's supposed to happen by 2030 which obviously isn't happening and we look at the what it is that's the Russian I mean you know the the again look at the timing the

48:46it's funny to think back now because it's you one sort of forgets these things but uh the February 2022 I mean wasn't it what I can't remember in terms of COVID regulations or something didn't something end in um in that very month 2022 I mean it was literally it was almost the day before and then and then the Russia Ukraine thing kicked off the following day I'd have to check I can't remember yeah I think it was the coronavirus act is that what it was yeah I think it's into your appeal yeah yeah yeah so something something like that um you know you think oh well it's a coincidence yeah um not really uh so yeah so all of these things do do have um a traceable line in both directions I think to to project what happens you know you when you have your war you you set the conditions for a complete rehash of your

49:49financial system if you want I mean you sort of you have to do it but also it is the perfect excuse for oh gosh sorry there isn't actually any more money left um and it's not because of that it's it's because of this it's because of the war uh so I think there are there are so many elements of warfare either in prospect or in um practice that just relate so absolutely to all the other things that we talk about which is why I think it's really important that we do concentrate on it and we and we do make people think about it because like I said a a short while ago this is done with our money and um and you know in simple terms obviously we're not surrendering our money to do this then um then it's much harder

50:50for it to happen but similarly with with people it is it is necessary that people go forward to take part in these wars and if that is um if that call is not responded to in the way that it has been in the past then again that that creates a very big problem and we were talking well yes actually again on Wednesday's news Vanessa was talking about the USS Gerald Ford which has had problems with its um with its um sort of sewage system on board and but the point is that there was a you know sort of um what's described as a mutiny to try to stop these things from working in order that these guys get sent home so it's just a demonstration of what people can do when they uh when they decide they've just had enough or something so I do I think to to sort of derail a war effort whilst apparently difficult

51:51certainly not impossible I mean the United Kings was hardly got anyone in the armed forces now so if no one else turns up then that that is sort of that put in really simple crude terms is China that kid sitting on the side of the playground watching the brawl unfold no because China's uh China's on the target list so so you know this this this is problematic for for Russia and China they are they are um clearly and well my assessment of it is that they are um trying to find a way to avoid what they know is coming because they know they're on the target list so Russia is doing things which is resulting in Russia getting criticism from

52:52certain people and and uh I absolutely understand why and amongst others talking about Vanessa here for example um I understand why that criticism is forthcoming um I'm going to say I have some sympathy with the position that countries find themselves in because because they are dealing with a bully who is a very big bully now uh and and and so they're trying to placate or they're trying to make deals with uh and and but I don't think that's going to work I think I think that uh that the the the decision was made a long time ago that Russia has to be dealt with and the China has to be dealt with and and I don't think anything's going to stop that um so uh yeah but the reality I think I think I think it would be I think it would be much better for for those countries

53:55Russia, China, Iran, India, stand up a lot in American countries uh it would be a much more sensible thing for them to do exactly what Mark Carney was suggesting at the world economic forum and consider themselves as middle countries and actually get together in a much stronger way than they are at the moment because they might they might uh say that they support you know Russia might say it supports Iran and okay Russia has has run some military exercises with Iran in the last couple of weeks and Russia seems to be perhaps maybe sending an an oil tanker to Cuba for example at the moment but you know what Trump is doing to Cuba at the moment is absolute disgrace and nobody's even noticing right and and uh so you know but the thing is uh if Russia sends this tanker if this tanker is on its way you know what's going to happen the US

54:56or the UK simply going to say oh shadow vessel and they're going to seize it if they think that it's actually going to reach a destination in Cuba so uh you know we we are absolutely in a lawless from international law point of view in a lawless situation um and uh uh these countries to a certain degree recognize that but i'm not sure that they have an answer at this stage now i was going to say that i think that China's defense is probably a lot more powerful than what than what we perhaps think i mean they work in long-term strategies yeah i mean Russia and China are doing uh a lot to develop their defensive capability uh Russia's doing a lot to develop offensive capability as it's demonstrating in

55:58in you create it at the moment but uh you know the point is germ that that should it come to actual kinetic conflict as you create is demonstrating at the moment doesn't matter whether you have the capability to provide some kind of defense or not it's going to be hellish for the people on the ground and who wants that right so so uh you know Russia and China don't want to see their own populations decimated or worse i'm trying to think of a way to come in for a final apier with some kind of upliftment i mean let's let's just talk let's just finish with abstain then because because there is an opportunity if if if is significant proportion of western populations

57:02because there's how many hundreds of thousands of emails are there there's information there that that we absolutely could see all our governments brought down plus the oligarch plus as well there's sufficient there probably if if if enough people actually got engaged with that topic it's there it's it's a gift it's sitting there in front of us we need to we need to get uh to grips with it as as populations not as individual media organizations or the occasional journalist we need to get it to grips with it as populations and we need to get rid of the people that are driving the war agenda that are driving the surveillance agenda the digital idea agenda it's all the same people for going to sick it's only a couple of hundred people probably that we need to actually get rid of put them in bloody presence excuse my language but that's that's uh let's use the information that's in front of us and get get that job done

58:03yeah i was in thought from the very point well no i i would sort of uh i would go along with that and um you know because there is a genuine sense of panic it's it's unusual that one sees this but i think people have have absolutely had their have their have had their feathers ruffled by this um i mean the only other thing i would say is just uh you know we've talked a lot about sort of military capabilities and um and they're sat in the other i mean i i think what to me again is fascinating uh perhaps particularly about Russia but i mean china as well it's just how how much of a contrast there is between what is said in western countries but the united kingdom i would say in particular uh i was reporting on the um environment secretary's address to the national farmers union on wednesday and it's just pathetic it is just it's just one sort of dreary

59:04load of sort of vaguely connected sound bites and none of it really means anything and then you look at the the the way in which Russia has responded to i mean okay sanctions but but to to all the all the various obstacles put in its path and it's just you know they've just got on with it uh from a from a um self-sufficiency point of view and we we're here to talk about this sort of arming themselves and this and the other but you need much more to it than that and and food being such critical element and that that just it it does demonstrate something that um that we are absolutely lacking here i mean first of all it totally failed narrative but the the action uh it it's just not there and um and again going back to the point of what where where we fit in what we can do these are the areas in which we need to to to make sure that we are actually sorting ourselves out um so i think so much can be learned from

1:00:07these countries that are supposedly in the crosshairs of the united states united kingdom uh NATO and all the rest of it because after all they are they are under intense pressure they do actually have to do something about it and um in most cases they do respond and i think we can all learn from that all right mike and charles looking forward to uh having you joining me in the trenches next week hopefully