What’s the Snark on Tom Cruise?

0:00you . . . . . . . . Hey guys, welcome. Oh, oh, You go. Oh, okay. Well, it is Thursday, September 3rd. And I'm here with my lovely co-host, Sophie Ross. She is looking stunning. She's in the, I was going to say the shore. She's not at the shore. She's in PA right now. Yeah. Yeah. And I am at my home studio. And you know, I'm kind of feeling mentally under the weather. I think Sophie's kind of feeling mentally under the weather as well. But I think the best thing we can do for ourselves right now is

1:02lock in and talk about someone who's so nefarious that it'll make it. Yeah. Make us forget all of our own problems. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm the best way to say it. Yeah. So I'm in PA right now, my in-laws, because we have a wedding in Chicago this weekend, which is very fun, but we're dropping off back. So we're with my in-laws. And of course, the out of town fun weddings always happen when you're like not feeling. 100% so I'm like a little bit under the weather, which is why I might sound a little bit low energy. But this is a very, very, very exciting episode that I feel like we've wanted to do for a while. And there's so much to say when it comes to Scientology. So I feel like we will talk about Scientology a lot in this episode. But like this is not going to be like a dedicated Scientology episode just because we don't have the time. But there is obviously so much to discuss with Scientology, which is incredibly fucking nefarious.

2:02If you guys have not seen the, have you seen the documentary going clear? I haven't, but back when I had X and was all I did do a Scientology episode all about Shelley and Skivage. Yes. And David Miskevige. So I do know enough to be dangerous, but my extent of my knowledge as you guys know to looking at the title, we're talking about Tom Cruise. So I don't know too much about obviously I know he's a Scientologist, but I don't know too much. So I'm excited to get into it with you because I know you've been studying Tom Cruise and Scientology for a couple days now ahead of this episode. Yeah. So we will be talking about David Miskevige and Shelley Miskevige quite a bit because David, and by the way, I actually looked up because I knew people would yell at me if I mispronounced David Miskevige. If I be David Miskevige, I miskevige for some reason is more natural to me to say so I'm going to pronounce it miskevige. So don't yell at me. You got please be nice to me like I am, I am, you know, fighting for my life right now, but I'm happy to be here and so excited to be here because this episode is very, very, very juicy.

3:03So I want to do the justice that it deserves. But yeah, if you have not seen going clear on each BO, it is a very, very, very good documentary about Scientology and like I said, there's just so much to say, but David Miskevige, who is incredibly nefarious, whose wife has been a missing person essentially has not been seen since 2007 is Tom Cruise's best friend was his best man in his wedding to Katie Holmes. And the thing about Tom Cruise is that he is such a fucking movie star like he is so good. He's such a movie he does his own stunts. He is like one of our last big movie stars. And he is so just good on screen. Yeah, but like it is impossible to separate the art from the artist when it comes to Tom Cruise. Yeah, because I think when we think about, I don't know why this just came up, but we think about Michael Jackson's music objectively he is a phenomenal musician and his song slap.

4:05But we can't like listen to our Kelly for instance, because his songs like he has like one hit and he sucks as a person none of his music is good. It's like with Michael Jackson, sometimes people can like separate the art from the artist with Jared let it like we cannot, but Tom Cruise actually has good bodies of work and he's a norway or human. You could argue though for our Kelly or Jared let oh, I really like Dallas buyers club or like whatever movie it is that Jared let it was and that you like like people you could make the argument like that's very subjective. So it just it depends on the person. I think that you know, have I watched a Tom Cruise movie recently I haven't seen any of the mission of possible. Did you see token? Then we someone honestly I watched on a plane I got halfway through I got bored I did not see what the hype was about. I saw the OG top gun forever ago. I know there are like so many other Tom Cruise movies, but like I it's not like I'm like a huge like fan of his I just think objectively he is a movie star and he's good at what he does.

5:09I watched what was it not world where Z war of the worlds. War of the worlds recently with Tom Cruise that's in apocalypse movie that he is very good in minority report. I remember I saw that in theaters with my dad when I was like five why I don't know. So Thomas Cruise map of the world the fourth was born July 3rd, 1960, she was in Syracuse, New York. So he's 64 and he was the third of four children. He has three sisters. One of his first cousins actually William map with or who I to look up, but he does look he has a familiar faces also an actor who has appeared in five films with Tom. And his parents were an electrical engineer his dad and a special ed teacher in both his parents were from Louisville Kentucky. And his parents divorced when he was around 11 and he is recounted the fact that his dad was incredibly abusive and basically calls him a bully. He described him as a merchant of chaos, a coward who beat his children. He said my father was the kind of person where something goes wrong. They kick you.

6:12It was a great lesson in my life. How he'd low you in make you feel safe and then bang for me was like there's something wrong with this guy. And then he said, I'm sure there was no love loss there. The failing moved around a lot. He lived in Canada at one point. And he grew up Catholic actually, which I think is interesting because obviously he is now like a Scientologist like what religion was he born in and he was born in Catholicism. And he is recounted the fact that. And he is recounted the fact that. He grew up like basically in poverty. They did not have a lot of money. Like I said, they moved around a lot. He went to, you know, 15 different schools growing up. He probably had a lot of trouble like making friends. And he was actually diagnosed with dyslexia as a child. And he became involved in drama in the fourth grade. And he briefly attended a seminary in Cincinnati when he was 14 and considered and considered priesthood.

7:15There were like multiple times in his life where he like was apparently considering becoming a priest or a monk. It's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So priest of the seminary have said that Tom chose to leave the school when his family relocated again. However, a former classmate said that they were both asked to leave after getting caught taking liquor. So it's interesting that you're bringing up his history with his father because I owe Hank is forgiven me. He's come again apologies if you guys can hear that in the background. What I was going to say was I find that people, this is a sweeping generalization. But like when people go for like extreme forms of religion, maybe it's like Scientology can be considered an extreme form of religion. It's like because they never felt a sense of like family or community when they were young until they're reaching for something. That's why people will join Colts or gangs because they didn't grow up in the most stable home environment. I can imagine with Tom Cruz's father not being the nicest. I'm not saying, you know, it just it kind of makes a little bit more sense knowing why he would be a little bit more susceptible to society.

8:18Yeah. That's a great connection to make actually. Did you watch death of the pastor's wife on Netflix yet? I did. I did start it and I know it's everyone is watching it right now. It is very, very, very good, but infuriating. You'll be infuriated when you watch it. But I don't want to spoil too much or you know, give anything away if you haven't watched it yet. And Mike, who's the subject of the documentary who tragically died. She became very, very, very involved in the church where she met her pastor husband. And she had kind of like a troubled background as well. And she became really obsessed with the church. So I think that there's like a real connection there where it feels like you're kind of missing that sense of family or community and you find, you know, solace in a community like a church or whatever it is. At 18 Tom with a blessing of his mom and his stepfather moved to New York City to pursue an acting career. And he worked as a bus boy for a bit and ended up going out to LA for television roles and signed with CAA and began acting in movies. He is like so not enough. Oh, maybe like.

9:29You got a hand at the end like he can't really nothing at all and became one of the biggest movies stars we've ever seen. And starting signing with CAA, which is like still today, one of the biggest agencies in the world. Yeah. And some of these movies that we're going to talk about like I have not seen them. Like I feel like again, like he. I want to I want to know how many you've seen. I'm actually embarrassed by how few I've seen because these are all I mean a lot of them are considered like cult classics. But you have endless love 1981 you have the outsiders 1983. Which he starred in alongside Patrick Suizzy and Rob Lowe and Matt Dylan and a bunch of other very big actors. All the right moves and risky business in 1983 risky business is what like made him a star. And obviously has that iconic scene where he's like sliding down the hall with the socks. Yeah. Yeah, with with the socks and the button down in the sunglasses. I have never seen that movie in 1983. Obviously, it's it's before we're obviously before we were born.

10:31But young. But like I have I'm embarrassed that I've never seen this. Have you seen anything? I'm looking at all of your, you know, all the movies he starred in. Like I'm trying to think what have I seen him in then. I've seen none of these. I'm Jerry McGuire. Have you have you not seen? No, not you know what's funny is that okay. So top gun 1986. I was like trying to be clever. I was trying to be clever when I was talking to top talking about top gun with like my mom or something and I was like, you can't handle the truth. And she was like wrong movie. It's not even from the correct movie. It's from a few good men, which he was also in the color of money in 1986. Rain man. Oh, yeah, on top gun. By the way, obviously made him a super, super superstar. So I have seen top gun, but like way back in the day. Rain man in 1988 born on the 4th of July 1989. And that is when he got his first best actor nomination and a golden glove.

11:32And crazy enough Tom Cruise has never he's won an Oscar for producing, I believe, but not for acting. Oh, that's shocking to me because he's so a list to me again Brad Pitt Leo, Tom Cruise, King Witzlett and halfway. Yeah, I'm trying to think if he is received, he's received three nominations, I believe, but no win. So crazy, right. Yeah, it's like how Leo was before the Revenant, right. Yeah, yeah, for the Revenant. Yes, the Revenant is when he finally went, it was like so Oscar bait movie where he had to like, he like have like that crazy bear scene. And then he like sleep in like in like the corpse of a bear. Yeah, I actually did watch that movie. I can admit I did watch. Oh, what do you think? I watched it on a plane and I love like a wilderness movie. I'm going to be honest like it all started for me when the Disney movie Alaska with the word birch and Vincent Carthie Scher from madman. Do you know what I'm talking about?

12:36No, please tell me you have seen this movie. Oh, my god, it's it's it's do you have you seen madman. No. Oh, okay. Well, he can't believe from madman is the star and then his sister Thorpe or choose in my favorite movie now and then also in it. I love that. Yeah, it's oh yeah, that's a cult classic, but there are dad is on a small plane and he knows dives into the mountain and he asks his, he can't like he's going to down that mountain. So the kids go out in Alaska. What a last up. Oh, it's called Alaska. No, I've never seen that. Oh, it's so good. And what is that? What does that have to do with the revenue? Because it's people like tracking through the snow, you know, yeah. Okay, I need to talk about something that has become a genuine issue in my house. Hank has decided that everything I own is actually his and more specifically my little blanket. Like I'll get myself all set up on the couch have my blanket have Gilmore girls playing and I'm ready to fully rot for the evening. But within approximately 30 seconds, hangs on top of me, pushing his way underneath the blanket and just taking over.

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17:52And then the 90s he has a few good men like I said, you can't handle the truth, which I've actually never seen. I just know that quote, which I also attributed incorrectly the top gun. The firm interview with the vampire alongside Brad Pitt, which again, why have I never seen that? I don't know why. That's what Kirsten Dunst to. Yes interview the vampire. Yeah, Jerry McGuire for which he got his second best actor nomination. That's show me the money. And he, you know, and magnolia another best supporting actor nomination. And he got a best picture nod as producer of top gunnav Maverick but has never won an Oscar. And he also was in days of thunder in the 90s and far away 92 both co-starred with his then wife Nicole Kidman. And in 90 sex, he started super spy Ethan Hunt in mission impossible, which he also produced and obviously this turned into an entire franchise long running franchise, which never seen any of them.

19:00Are they good? You guys like are they worth it? I'm not like I actually do like action movies like I love a Liam Neeson movie or Jason Statham movie. I just like I never watch these. So let me know if you think it's worth it. If it's not like it's not like taking I don't want to watch it. You know what I mean? I'm not an action girl. So maybe that's why I haven't seen these movies. Yeah. So he actually had a long time first looked deal with paramount and a partnership. And in 2006 paramount pictures announced who is ending its 14 year relationship with him. Saying as much as we like him personally, we thought it was wrong to renew his deal. His recent conduct has not been acceptable to paramount. And this was an amalgamation of controversies that kind of happened all at once, which we'll talk about. And they're apparently they cited economic damage to cruise his value as an actor and producer from his controversial public behavior and views. So again, we will discuss these controversies in question, but it is interesting how there was, you know, with the Scientology of it all the Brook shields. You remember this Brook shields Matt Lauer your glib mat.

20:03No, I don't remember that one. Oh my god. We'll talk about this. Okay. I'm excited. And jumping on the couch and acting aradically jumping on Oprah's couch. This all kind of started to happen all at once. I think it's because he fired as long term publicist, which we will talk about. But I was surprised to hear here that it affected his commercial value because I never really thought it did. But apparently at that point in the 2000s his commercial value really sunk due to all of these different controversies. And he is definitely like I mean, a lot of people are anti-tomkers obviously to the state, including myself because I'm anti Scientology. But for the most part, he is a box office draw to this day. You can't really argue otherwise. In terms of box office numbers cumulative cumulatively his movies have grossed over $13 billion worldwide as of 2025 placing him around

21:04the top earning among actors of the top grossing among actors. Top gun Maverick in 2022 grows 1.5 billion his career high in first billion dollar film. And his personal net worth is estimated at around $600 billion via celebrity net worth. So take it with a grain of salt. But it's definitely up there. And I think for top gun Maverick to have gross over nearly 1.5 billion dollars, especially in 2020's people don't go to the movie theaters like they used to. We're not consuming movies as often as we used to. So that's a huge. I can't even understand honestly or compute that type of money. For sure. For sure. So he was also in tropic thunder in 2008. If you remember that, we, oh god, my mic just like hit me in the mouth. Which a very funny movie, but also a crazy movie. The fact that it was made and Robert Downey Jr. does blackface that movie.

22:04And. Oh, jeez. Have you never seen tropic thunder? No. Oh my god. So Tom Cruise has like a very funny role in that movie. But. Oh my god. Oh my god. That movie is so ridiculous. But at the to eat. It's like so. I don't want to get into it. But Robert Downey Jr. does blackface, which they acknowledge is problematic. Obviously, but they're playing into the fact that it's problematic. Like it's kind of like satire almost. Yeah. So I don't know you guys, but Tom Cruise is funny in that movie. Okay, so let's talk about Scientology. So I was curious how he got involved in Scientology. Like how did this even happen? And he actually was introduced to it by his first wife, Mimi Rogers. And she grew up in the church and worked as a quote unquote auditor. So basically an evil person. Because if you know anything about Scientology, you know that auditing happens. And auditing is when you basically get every deep dark secret about the subject that you are talking to or interviewing. So you can use those secrets as leverage and blackmail later on.

23:16A lot of people say this is why John Travuelto will never leave Scientology. And why probably Tom Cruise will never leave Scientology. Like they have so many secrets and dark things on them that they obviously don't want to get out. That's what auditors do. It's such a nefarious community. I don't even know if you want to call it religion. They probably name it as a religion for tax vital purposes. But what I was going to say, if you guys, they don't pay taxes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. What I was going to say is that if you know anything about the role of Scientology and from what I recall based on the evidence, I mean, sorry, the research I did years ago was that LAPD in Scientology are very much interdependent and one time one another. And they rely on each other to color things up. It's not subjective. It's not an opinion. This is fact. And there are many, many things at a point just to this. It's very corrupt. And it's really scary because you have the wealthiest and most powerful people that are shaking hands with people in bureaucratic positions.

24:20You should be very scared of it. It's very unsettling. Yeah, it's terrifying. And that is why when Leah Remini, new real houses of Beverly Hills, by the way, reported Shelley miskevenge as missing in 2013, because she had not been seen since 2007. And Leah was really good friends with Shelley back in the day. She was like this woman is missing reported her missing LAPD open and shut. They're like, yeah, we, we found her. She's totally fine. If she hasn't been seen since fucking 2007. If there was, if she was fine, they would be trotting her out because there's so much speculation about her disappearance. So speaking of Shelley miskevenge, David miskevenge Tom Cruise is bestie since the 80s. And again, met through Mimi Rogers. And they were married from 1987 to 1990. And in a 1993 Playboy interview, Mimi discussed her split from Cruise and said that he had been considering becoming a monk again, like it's like priest monk.

25:21I'm going to join this Scientology cult. It's a cult is what it is. And she later retracted these comments and claim she had been misinterpreted. But she said that, you know, she felt like she was living in the shadow of Tom Cruise. She was just Tom Cruise's wife, you know, and didn't feel like an individual anymore. And she ended up receiving a $4 million divorce settlement. And 1990 is one his involvement in Scientology became public. And he formally announced it in a 1992 interview with Barbara Walters. And I think it's, it's definitely possible that in the early 90s, Scientology was not there weren't like big exposés on what Scientology is yet. So it wasn't controversial yet. But he said that Scientology actually helped him overcome his dyslexia through its teaching method study technology. And a couple years into it, the org leaders started sharing Scientology secrets with him.

26:27Like information. This is so fucking weird. Like Scientology is so weird and scary you guys. So there's an ET ruler called Znew, a figure in the Church of Scientology's confidential upper level teachings. Where he appears in material known as operating feet in level three. The Znew narrative forms part of their space opera teachings about ancient extraterrestrial civilizations, catastrophic events in the distant past and their continuing effects on the spiritual condition of humanity. And these materials are treated as trade secrets and are normally disclosed only to Scientologists who have completed extensive coursework and probably audited a lot. AK lots of blackmail on them. It's so fucking scary. Like what are they even talking about? Like I'm sure if you're a Scientologist, baby stark, actually I'm not sorry, like that's weird. No, I don't think we would ever have that pair of life. They wouldn't even be listening because it's they would consider us blasphemous, but what I was going to say they would call us oppressive persons.

27:35Yeah, they would. I was going to say that the when you hear about Scientology, you have these big names, these a list of liberties like John Travolta and Tom Cruise. But I feel like. And as we know that Tom Cruise is upbringing, it seems like he was a perfect candidate for to be poached and brought into this cult. But they really prey on very, very weak people. It's like like any cult really they see vulnerable people that are in a very vulnerable position that are very malleable or very what's the word I'm looking for. Impressionable. And it's it's very, very unsettling and they just they completely were your brain. It's yeah. Yeah. So apparently he started to get kind of like cold feet about Scientology around this time and he took a step back for a little to work on eyes wide shut. And it's also speculated that Nicole Kidman was one of the reasons that he started to pull back from the church, which is also why David miskevic was like you need to you need to get rid of her.

28:36You need to leave Nicole because she has a suppressive person like that in a suppressive person in Scientology terms is let me look at the actual definition so I don't botch it. But it's basically someone that anyone that doesn't like Scientology, it or criticizes Scientology. So anyone that is not on board with their like crazy shit. Okay. So Tom later spark controversy in the 2000s with his efforts to promote Scientology to the public in the aftermath of September 11th he co-fatted and raised donations for downtown medical to offer New York City rescue workers detoxification therapy. Which obviously drew it's one of those hockey. Yeah, Scientology things and this obviously drew criticism from like actual medical professionals. It's like this is not what they need right now they need like actual help. You know what it's reminding me of what Bella Hadid and her IV trips at the studios at the end of his.

29:37It's very it's very similar to that. It's like this isn't like real like medical science. No, it's it's just a bunch of junk science in late 2004 David miskemit created the Scientology freedom medal of valor and awarded it to cruise for his work, which by the way we're making fun of Scientology and David miskemit so much in this episode like if something happens to us, you know who it was like we are not suicidal. Yeah, if something happens to us like after this episode is released like I'm actually scared of them. They're so fucking scary and weird. I remember when I released something on X was all everyone was like you're pretty busy to have even the word Scientology in your episode description. Oh my god, like we're gonna publish this episode and like we're gonna have they're gonna start wiretapping us. And they're gonna be like, oh my god, why are they always talking about like a do you start the proper rolls and do you start? For our Scientologist Paul Haggis has claimed that Tom attempted to convert several celebrities of Scientology, including James Packer, the Beckham's Jada Pickett will Smith Steven Spielberg, etc.

30:46I'm sorry, I can see Jada and will like being totally on board though. I could too, but apparently they were not convinced. And since 2008 he has restricted interviewers from asking him about Scientology because now it's more taboo than it used to be. He has also campaigned for Scientology to be recognized as an official religion. It's like no thanks. Europe is like all about like foundational principles and I like like I don't know it's just more traditional over there. I feel like they're like what are you even talking about? Yeah, so specifically in Europe and some of the European leaders that he lobbied to described him as a militant spokesman for Scientology and barred any further dealings with them. They were like were scared like French interior minister Nicholas Arcosi, for example. Okay. Marikadol Sands. I think that's he's related to Marikadol Sands. No, no, I think you're I think you're mixing him up.

31:46She was the ex husband was something with like the French all of us are cozy. He was the French big or his half brother as Nicholas or cozy. You're right. You're right. I don't mess up my American Ashley Fatt. I know you don't. I don't have good job. Nance, you're correct. Okay, so let's talk about the psychiatry thing because Scientology is not a fan of psychiatry. Like what is it with them in psychology? I don't understand or psychiatry. But in 2004, he controversially said that he thinks psychiatry should be outlawed. And oh my gosh. And he criticized Brook shields for using the anti-depressant packs all the treat postpartum depression. And he's very open about this. And he denied the existence of chemical imbalances in the brain and described psychiatry as a form of pseudoscience. And your weird IVs of the Yolk Galati studio isn't. Yeah. And Brook shields said that crews should stick to saving the world from aliens and let women who are experiencing postpartum depression decide what treatment options are best for them.

32:52And in 2006, he ultimately apologized to her first comments. Yeah, so Scientology is very well known for opposition to mainstream psychiatry and psychoactive drugs for whatever reason. I think it's because they think that you can like fix the mind when you connect with the Z-new, you know, yeah, no, that's exactly it. So famously, I remember this like it was yesterday. He gets into it with Matt Lauer, who also sucks, by the way, but at the time we were all to you, Matt Lauer. Because Matt Lauer was like defending, you know, anti-depressants and Brook shields and postpartum depression. And he's like, these things are real. And Tom Cruise called psychiatry a pseudoscience. And he said to Matt Lauer, you don't know the history of psychiatry. I do. He called him glib. He said, you're glib, Matt, you're glib. And this was like a huge, this was a huge deal. It basically means that you're like ignorant. Okay. What's the actual definition? Because when I hear it, I think of ignorant. It basically means stupid.

33:54Yeah, the definition says speaking in a smooth and easy way, but showing a lack of sincerity, deep thought or honesty. Yeah, it's like you're kind of just like stupid instance here ignorant. And he later returned a couple of years later and said I came across as arrogant and apologize. But speaking of Steven Spielberg, who we mentioned earlier, his anti-psychiatry actions apparently cause a rift with Steven Spielberg. And he had reportedly mentioned Cruise's presence, the name of a doctor friend who described psychiatric medication. Shortly thereafter, the doctor's office was picketed by a Scientologist, reportedly angering Steven Spielberg. Imagine you show up to your workplace, a worker like a nurse at the doctor's office and there's Scientology picketers outside your place of work, place of employment. Crazy. Very unsentimental. Just for being doctors who help people. Correct. It's so crazy. Um, 2005. Again, these are when all of these like bad PR moments are happening. He jumps on Oprah Winfrey's couch and professing his love for Katie Holmes, which again an iconic moment.

34:59We all remember where we were. And this is apparently all of these things happened in a row right after he fired his long time publicist Pat Kingsley. So she was kind of like keeping his ass in check for years. And this is also when his paramount partnership dissolved. And this was like such. It's so funny how big of a deal the couch jumping thing was at a time like looking back at it. It's like what's the deal like he was in love. But it really like kind of shattered that carefully curated image that he had. You know, like he was like in this big like serious movie star. Now it's like, whoa, you're acting crazy. You know what's interesting. Randomly I was stumbling like on tech to just doom scrolling. And I decided to look that moment up because obviously I remember up and I was younger. Yeah. And I rewatch and I was thinking like. It was definitely unhinged undoubtedly, but I feel like because the way that we were back then was far more. Buttoned up because we didn't have camera phones.

36:00Would this be as I'm not saying it wasn't nuts. It definitely was not the period objectively. But like do you think you would get the same media attention if it if he had done that today. It would be like that was weird. But I think the people like move on from it. Yeah, like the news cycle so quickly. Yeah, the news cycle so fast now. But like at the time this was like such a big deal. Like if you're a Gen Z listening to this and you don't remember this happening, this was like. I don't even know what to like this was such a fucking big deal to me. It's like when Britney Spears shaved her head. Shaved her head. Tom Cruise. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah. It was crazy to see someone so typically a buttoned up a less actor acts so seemingly erratically. Yeah. A national television. So let's on the topic of his Scientology. Let's talk about his relationship with miscavige. So David miscavige was like I said, the best man at Tom's 2006 wedding to Katie homes. And according to that going clear documentary. Miscavige regarded Cruise as one of the few people he trusted to run the church.

37:05And this person. This this source from the Church of Scientology said that Tom Cruise said there's a hierarchy. It's L.R.H. L. Ron Hubbard. Then there's you know David miscavige and then there's me like he was like the number three Scientologist of all time in his opinion. And. David miscavige was like I he just prided himself on being able to produce with a staff of his fingers. Anything Cruise ever wanted or desired and was able to at the same time remove obstacles in his life such as his for example. You know wife Nicole Kidman who was an obstacle to Tom Cruise in the Church of Scientology. And I think that there were apparently a lot of people in the Church of Scientology who did not like this relationship and do not like this relationship because they think Tom Cruise gets special treatment versus the people that have like literally like

38:16like the fact that David miscavige stood up in front of the entire church basically and called him and this is all alleged obviously via going clear documentaries ex church members etc which by the way it is not easy to leave the church like it there are so many reports of people trying to leave the church and being stalked and harassed for life by the church of Scientology but there are people that have gotten out and they have reported and talk including Leah Rebony again real has to Beverly Hills. And so David miscavige was like Tom is the best Scientologist I know and there were like people that served in the sea org which if you know anything about Scientology the sea org is like these people are working 17 plus hours a day every single day. And they're literally abuse they're making pennies it's borderline slave labor and they're choosing to do this because they're like I mean they're too next to you know you can't really leave once you once you start but like they are dedicating themselves to the cause of Scientology and they sign quote unquote billion year contracts and say they'll work through multiple lifetimes because Scientologists believe it's like there's going to be another to mention another lifetime with reading.

39:37So you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, reading contract that refers to billion years is so unsettling. Scary. It's so scary. Like, I don't want to do anything for a billion years. Yeah, like work 18 hour days for pennies. Yeah, and it's I think from my recollection like the sea org it's kind of like they put you through like a little boot camp university like the TLDR of Scientology but they're also working you like physically labor laborious tasks and things like that. And these people are giving up contact with their families because if your family does not in the Church of Scientology they are seen as suppressive people you are not supposed to have any contact with them. So these people have dedicated their lives to Scientology and then all the Sunday of David misquins trouting around this, you know celebrity like an ornament is how they see it. These people are working so hard like working all of these, you know, hours for no money and then you have David misquivage and Tom Cruz living like fucking kings because the Church of Scientology is tax exempt.

40:49Because there are quote unquote church so they don't have to pay taxes they make so much money. And okay, let's quickly talk about where is Shelley misquivage, which we briefly mentioned up top, but David's wife Shelley hasn't been seen since August 2007. And some people think she lives at a secret Scientology compound something she's dead. Leah Remini, like I said, was sounding the alarm on this before really anyone and officially filed a missing persons report in 2013. Like I said, the LAPD looked into it and said they they were like we found her. She's good. In case, yeah, and like you said Scientology and LAPD are very, very, very intertwined and also the fact that Scientology does not pay taxes. They have so much fucking money and power now. They were battling with the IRS for tax exemption for years and ended up winning this battle.

41:52And this has totally, totally, totally transformed and like changed their financial position obviously not having to pay fucking taxes. Yeah, that's crazy. That's what I say about the Kardashians, whether or not that's true. I don't know, but that's true. I believe that church that they funnel all their funds through so that they can be tax exempt. I a hundred or so believe it. Okay, so his marriage to Nicole Kidman. So they met on days of thunder and married in December 1990 and they adopted Isabella in 1982 and Connor in 1995. Fun fact, they went to camp with my cousins and they're apparently very normal. And they co-starred in far and away and eyes wide shut. And Tom Cruise filed for divorce in February 2001. And this was two days after announcing the separation, inciting irreconcilable differences. And two months after they renewed their vows on their 10th anniversary. And the 10 year thing is interesting because California treats 10 years as a threshold for extended spousal support obligations.

42:59So I guess he claimed the marriage was over prior to the 10 year Annie, presumably so he wouldn't have to pay the long term spousal support. I guess it's kind of okay. And Nicole Kidman famously told David Letterman after they split that she could wear heels now. He didn't allow her to wear heels because she's so much smaller than him. And then there is the famous picture of her celebrating after being divorced. Yeah, he's five seven, according to Google. Yeah, not a not a tall guy. And apparently he wears like in movies, they make them look taller with like lifts and like props. Okay, so yeah, it's widely known that the children. Bella and Connor became a strange from Nicole Kidman after the divorce because they were being raised in Scientology and Nicole Kidman at this point was seen as a suppressive person. So they were not supposed to have any contact with her. And it's actually so sad like these kids were taken from her.

44:00And she has been open about struggling with infertility for years, which is why they adopted. And apparently the Church of Scientology decided to wiretap her allegedly. And so Marty Wrathbun was once the second highest-breaking church executive. And he was also recently assigned to facilitate the breakup with Nicole Kidman. He told going clear that the church wire tapped her phone and worked to turn the couples adopted children against her. And they were concerned, like I said, because Tom Cruise was drifting away from the church during his marriage to Nicole and they were concerned. And she was also raised a Roman Catholic and was already listed as a potential trouble source by the church because her father was a prominent psychiatrist. And so they were mostly, they don't like psychiatrist, you know. Well, I was going to wait. Nicole's dead. Yeah. We could do a whole episode on him. There's a lot of dark stuff about him as well. About Nicole Kidman's dad. Oh, yeah.

45:00Oh, I had no idea. Oh, yeah. We'll do that on Patreon. It's not safe for the public. I have literally no idea. Oh, yeah. It's pretty dark. But yeah, so David, what? Well, I was just going to say I was just looking at the recording laws for California. As a strict two party consensus, meaning you cannot legally record a confidential conversation without without the permission of every person involved. So it's crazy that someone like Nicole Kidman with all these means comes from a very powerful family. She can't even go against the church of Scientology when she was a legally wiretapped her phone calls were a legally wiretapped like. I was just how much control it. Yeah, they won't do anything. They will not do shit. But yeah, so David Miskwidge was getting jealous and alarmed because Tom Cruise. Was spending so much time with Nicole filming eyes wide shut and like wasn't returning his calls and he was like Nicole has got to go. So. Yeah, it's unclear whether any actual information was like collected, but David Miskwidge was kind of pioneering this.

46:02Split. So there's also the lore around Tom Cruise and Scientology like auditioning girlfriends. Vanity Fair reported that the church ran a top secret process auditioning Scientologist actresses for the role of Cruises Girlfriend. They selected Nazanine Boniotti in 2004. She was 25 at the time, a pre-med student and young Scientologist. And she was told she was getting a special assignment. Um, it's still off it's scaring me. I know it's so scary. They wanted to find her a dropped it but they wanted to find Tom a dropped a beautiful true believer to share his life. It's like so crazy and weird. Of course she'll be like like young and brushable 25. Yeah, you know, yeah. And she was told that she was being chosen for a mission was really going to save the world. And she was going to be meeting dignitaries.

47:02It was very important that she looked good and be worldly. And she had no idea at first that it was Tom Cruise and she was like, oh, this is for Tom Cruise. And yeah, so this was only after she was flown first class to New York. Did she discover the actual role that the church wanted her apply? She was to be the first lady of Scientology basically. Scientology is through the girlfriend of Scientology's biggest star. And she was living with him within a month in sign of confidentiality agreement. And this process apparently was overseen by Shelley Miskovich. What? They also made her break up with her boyfriend who she like wanted to marry. And they actually manipulated her in a dumping him. She's handed a transcript of his auditing session, which she admitted that he had an affair. So she broke up with him. Crazy. Yeah, so she was totally separated from her family at this point, living with Tom Cruise. And if she messed up being Tom Cruise's girlfriend, she would be declared an enemy of Scientology.

48:10And Boniad was reportedly sent to a Scientology center where she broke down and revealed her relationship with Cruise to a friend, which supposedly violated her confidentiality agreement. As punishment, vanity fairs as her chores included scrubbing toys to the toothbrush, cleaning towels with acid and digging ditches in the middle of the night. What? Yeah. Scrubbing toys with a toothbrush, cleaning towels with acid. Yeah. What? This is like psychological warfare. And a former Scientologist, Paul Haggis said that she was 100% bullied and the relationship ended in January 2005, just three months before Cruise appeared in public with Katie Holmes. And he apparently wanted someone with her own power, like Nicole Kidman. So someone with her own star power. And Boniadi later publicly broke up with the church confirming her departure of the anti-Scientology rap track, naming Cruise and Travolta specifically. And she also signed an NDA with the church, but as pressured by the church usually.

49:12And the Church of Scientology told ABC News this entire story is hogwash. There was no project secret or otherwise ever conducted by the church to find a bride, a addition or otherwise for any member. So, sure, Jan. So let's talk about his relationship with Katie Holmes. Also, really quickly, I was just trying to figure out what the difference in Tom Cruise is involved in the Scientology versus John Travolta. It seems like Tom Cruise has even higher status because he is like that. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. I think he's closer than John Travolta's, but John Travolta is another star of the church, obviously. Right. So let's talk about his relationship with Katie Holmes. So they had a rapid courtship in 2005. They had their daughter, Serene April, 2006 and then married in Italy in November, 2006. And when it comes to you, Serene being born, I don't know if you remember these rumors being reported at the time that Katie wasn't allowed to scream or speak or make any sound during childbirth because it's against Scientology.

50:17They have silent birth guidelines. Yeah, it's crazy. So who knows if that's true, but that was like the rumor at the time. Also, Katie Holmes, this was like her Bob era. And I remember thinking that she was like the sheikest personal life, even though I was like, oh, you're with like a scary Scientologist. I was like, you're chic. And Katie Holmes filed for divorce in New York in June 2012. And she was seeking sole custody of Surrey. And there was speculation immediately centered on her wanting to raise Surrey outside Scientology. And the LA Times reported that she said the divorce and motion using a throw away cell phone provided by a friend. So she could talk to her New York lawyers without cruiser staff knowing like she was spucking being watched all the time and like wiretapped. That is so you need a burner phone to communicate to attorneys to want to divorce your husband. Crazy. Yeah, because he's yeah, because he has a whole team of working against you. Oh my god. This is yeah, a present. A settlement was reached 11 days after filing.

51:17So I'm sure he was like, just go. I'll pay you whatever you want. Just go. And it is reported that Tom Cruise has no relationship with Surrey. Hasn't seen her in years. Apparently he severed contact with her when she was seven. And in Scientology, this is known as disconnection. And like imagine I think your seven year old is like a suppressive person. Like I can't like bad vibes, you know, like Surrey my seven year old. Suppressive person. It's crazy. And she's 19 years old now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's and she dropped Cruise from her name when she was 18. Yeah. She they apparently haven't seen each other in years. And yeah, Katie was like, I'm not raising her in the church. Understandably so. He didn't attend her high school graduation. He has had nothing to do with her for years. Which he denies, by the way. He has like said that this is not true, but by all accounts, this is true. And yeah, and Katie Holmes, you know, it's it's really been confirmed that she was like,

52:18I need to protect my daughter from Scientology. And she like could not have gotten out of the church fast enough, which is totally understandable. You guys know I've been all about transforming my space in 2026. So far that's included house renovations, hiring a home organizer, etc, etc. Now I'm on to tackling my closet because a huge part of having a calming zen space is letting go of all the stuff I haven't worn in years. That's why I'm so excited this episode is sponsored by Vinted. Vinted is a second hand marketplace app that makes it so easy to sell the pieces you're no longer wearing so you can make space for stuff that you actually will. Whether it's a workplace or you've worn to one meeting or a pair of boots you've never fully broken in, get rid of them and get paid for them. Vinted makes the process so insanely simple. Listing the items is a quick and want something sells they create a prepaid shipping label for you. The best part there's no selling fees so you keep everything you earn. The vintage app is also free to download. It's truly been such a satisfying way to clean on my closet.

53:18So ready to clean out your closet it makes a much cash. Download the Vinted app for free and start listing with no sellers fees you keep every dollar you earn. And for limited time enjoy free shipping in the US on Vinted. So there have been many lawsuits and many rumors about Tom Cruise over the years. So one of which states back to 1998 he successfully sued a British tabloid over an allegation that his marriage to Kenman was a sham covering his homosexuality. And there are many rumors about this about Tom Cruise's sexuality. And what's interesting is that there are also a lot of rumors about John Travolta's sexuality. And that is one of the people speculate obviously this is purely speculative that this is what has been audited out of them is their true sexuality. And that this is why they can never leave the church because they would be outed by the church. Yeah, no, I mean I've heard these rumors. I mean since we were kids honestly like I just feel like this is a.

54:23But I don't know if it's true or not but what I'm saying is like if that were the case that they were hiding their sexuality and make sense why they would be so hesitant to lead the church in fear of like the retaliation. It's the perfect block mail that Scientology would have on them. Yeah, a smag is in published something similar in 1995 saying that Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, you know it was an arranged marriage that they were under the understanding that he was gay and they're you know he couldn't father children etc which is why they adopted and called him sterile homosexual obviously like really just it's no one's business if he is these things so they'll lawsuit is completely warranted but again these rumors have kind of persisted for quite some time. And in 2003 Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman want to report its six figure libel summoner attraction over claims that their marriage was an arrangement by the church of Scientology so again another rumor of an arranged marriage.

55:27It also claimed the same thing that he was impotent or sterile and that they adopted their two children on a whim which again is not the account that Nicole Kidman has said over the years which is that she struggled with infertility for a really long time. And I wouldn't put a pass that Georgia Scientology to be like blam but on Nicole Kidman's fertility issues rather than his totally totally like I'm sorry I could totally see that. I mean sorry cruise does look like him so like totally is a great yeah. I remember when she was a baby we're like oh my god yeah yeah totally so it's yeah I have zero doubt that that is yeah it's kid. Bold magazine in 2001 claim that they had a video proving Tom Cruise was gay he sued for a hundred million dollars and again it's just like over and over and over again he there are these rumors and he is not you know gun shy when it comes to taking legal action against people. Another one claimed that Chad Slater had a gay affair with Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman discovered it and that's why she ended their marriage and he won a ten million dollar judgment in a lawsuit against another male porn actor who alleged they had an affair.

56:47And I think over and over and over again these rumors have persisted but he also was you know successfully suing them so who knows so in 2012 in touch and life and style claimed cruise and abandoned sorry and he sued for 50 million dollars he said I have a no way cut sorry out of my life whether physically emotional financially or otherwise and they settled in December 2013 on confidential terms. This was a prejudice prejudice each side with its own costs but it is pretty obvious that you know they have no relationship to this day. So let's talk about some other relationships over the years there was Penelope cruise and this was between Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes from 2001 to 2004 vanilla sky is one that I've seen have you seen vanilla sky no oh it's so weird okay but they were vanilla sky co stars and then Haley at well. From 2020 to 2022 allegedly and she denied the rumors she said it was weird that's what I would say if someone linked to me to Tom Cruise I'd be like I'm tired yeah and then there's Hannah to armass and this one I thought was like oh my god yes this seemed very bizarre like she did an athlete too right.

58:10Yes she did yeah this seemed this seemed like arranged so they were seen together as early as February 2025 and sources that early meetings concerned potential collaborations and by October 2020 25 is where they had either quietly split or were never really romantically involved this seems like in another arranged like Scientology you know things yeah. I don't want to say genuinely so stunning like she so pretty she is she is so Leo Remini just like some other quick hits about his connection Scientology Leo Remini who left the church in 2013 alleged that he is treated as a deity within Scientology that he personally administered discipline to members at miscarriage direction at gold base like he would he would punish people. And her memoir troublemaker describes Cruz for rating staff and behaving like a child who had never been told no I believe it yeah I believe it speaking of John Travolta apparently has a rivalry with John Travolta because they are like two of the church's marquee members so like there's like competition there yeah you know there's like teams like Tom Cruise is more vocal I think about his involvement but

59:32and it seems like they have different statuses like from what I'm reading versus Tom Cruise like the OT levels are different and Tom Cruise has a higher OT level than John Travolta does but I can imagine it might be like a dick measurement contest of like who's more impressive and has more accolades in the church yeah so as of today on November 16th 2025 the Academy of 16th governor's awards awarded him in honorary Academy Award so he has won an Academy Award just an honorary one and presented by Alejandro G and Yareto who said Cruz doesn't just make movies he is movies and this is unfortunately true I think despite how horrible the human being he is and in your reach to the world and in your reach to is directing him in the satirical black slash absurd comedy movie digger and I recently saw this trailer and this comes out in October 2026 and it actually looks really good yes I saw when I went out when I saw this trailer yeah yeah so he basically plays kind of like an Elon Musk type figure who's like this eccentric billionaire oil magnet powerful guy who like has to

1:00:57He like was destroying the world and now needs to save it or I don't know I it's been a while since I sell this trailer but it's with Jesse Plemitt and John Goodman it looks pretty good and this is his like not first non action lead in years so I think it's like pretty highly anticipated but yeah overall I would say with Tom Cruise he is a very problematic person his association with Scientology in and of itself is problematic he is freaking weird and bizarre yeah but a movie star and that's kind of like my I'm curious what you guys think like are you able to separate the art and the artist when it comes to Tom Cruise because of course it depends on the person it totally depends you know like we mentioned earlier like our Kelly or Jared let oh how do you feel about Tom Cruise or you able to separate you know all of the dark things about time and this is only scratching the surface when it comes to Scientology there's obviously so much to unpack when it comes to the darkness of Scientology again that would have to require like a totally separate episode but this is like kind of like the top line Tom Cruise and Scientology and how they are obviously intrinsically involved I was going to say to I think the difference with Tom Cruise and say Jared let oh is

1:02:22with Jared let oh in our Kelly you can actually name the victims and their people that you don't know like they're in this like not the Nicole Kim it wasn't innocent like she obviously was a victim 100% but they don't have like the wealth and status that's a Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes have so people are more willing to kind of like turn the blind eye to Tom Cruise simply because his victims are more high profile and have more I don't know status than other victims of like or Kelly or something maybe that's why people kind of get a lot of things like you know the people kind of give them a pass because like his victims aren't like blatantly in your face. I also think it's like it's it's almost apples and oranges like when we say our Kelly and Tom Cruise they are totally problematic for different reasons. Absolutely. So it's like you can't really compare them but I think that Tom Cruise like I said is just such a movie star that it is so any so effortlessly enjoyable and charming when you watch him in movies that like like especially if you're like an action movie lover like you are Tom Cruise fan probably top gun mission possible whatever it is like he is a movie star unfortunately.

1:03:30But yeah curious what you guys think and yeah thank you for being here hopefully I was able to give this the. You know the. Respect that it deserves this episode think this is a very juicy important episode i think we definitely need to do like a deeper dive on Scientology itself maybe a patreon. Which by the way patreon link is in our show notes yesterday Christy walked us through the expose about crime junkie and Ashley flowers so. And then our newsletter goes out every Friday and that is also in our show notes yeah so lots of fun things you guys check out everything we mentioned in the show notes and. We'll see you guys on Tuesday for another episode of DET talk to you guys later bye bye.

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1:06:59Are you looking for a new favorite podcast are you looking for a podcast about movies are you looking for a podcast that strictly covers 80s 90s 2000s movies are you looking for a podcast is going to be doing movies like so I married. And I'm going to ask murder hot tub time machine grandma's boy and ghost well then you just found it tune into the confused breakfast wherever you get your podcasts. If you're into the daily bravo news exclusive interviews and just the mess then don't miss my podcast up in Adam where I'm your host Adam Nool on Indian all platforms that you listen to your podcast I'll see you soon. Can I be a bitch for a second. Hey, I'm raven James host of the bitches better podcast join me each week as I dive into the latest in reality TV and pop culture. It's like gossiping with your best friend over a glass of wine no filter and all the fun and of course I've got some personal stories to spill to settle in and let's chat.