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Today in Focus — What Nigel Farage will say for money. Machine-transcribed; use the interactive transcript above to jump the player to any line.
This is The Guardian. Today, neo-naughtsies, rioters and birthday wishes for your nap. Nigel Farage's cameo side us all. Shipping, building, admin, payroll, marketing, your managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want, with stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24.7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Just a quick heads up before we start. Today's episode contains strong and offensive language throughout.
So you all know cameo, right? It's that website where you can ask a celebrity to record a personalized message for you for a fee. Often it's just a bit of a laugh. So say you want to get, I don't know, J from the in-betweeners to record a hilarious message for your friend. You can do it on here. Whatever you do on your birthday, we just don't be a bus wanker. Happy birthday, Jacob. Or you get one from Fiona from the most recent series of the traitors. Hi David, this is Fiona, the secret traitor. But it's not just celebrities that are on cameo. There are some politicians on there too. And one in particular is so successful that he is listed on the site as a fan favorite with almost 2005 star reviews. Hello Neil, Nigel Farage here. And Oliver tells me you are 50 today. Very happy 21st birthday. Farage has recorded thousands of these things. And in fact, since he joined cameo in 2021,
he has turned out on average three every single day. Hello, Johnson. Hello, Tony. High piece of Steve has been intact. But regarding investigation has found that some of the messages that Farage has recorded go far beyond sending best wishes to your man on her birthday. He knows what you can and can't say what's offensive. And then he's continuing to do it to make huge amounts of money. He offered support to a jailed rioter. He promoted a neo-Nazi group. He repeated far-right slogans and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. All raising serious questions for the man who fancies himself as the next British Prime Minister. From the Guardian, I'm Helen Pitt, today in focus. What Nigel Farage will say for money? Henry Dio, welcome back to Zadane Focus. Hi, Helen. So you are an investigation correspondent at the Guardian.
Tell me how did this story start for you? So I had an email from a reader who said that they'd found this trend in some of the fouls of these videos. And they wanted me to have a look at it too. So soon I found that we could look through the thousands of videos and the prompts and look at what Farage said. And a prompt is essentially a request, isn't it? That people make when they're paying for a cameo video and usually they're requesting something quite specific. Going through the videos on cameo's website, we could find that in the source code on every page was information about how the video was commissioned, the day and time of the video's commissioning, as well as how much money Farage had charged for that video. And then we started looking through not just the information, those prompts, but also who is he taking money based on those prompts? And when is he making these videos? When we looked at the data in mid-January, by that point there were more than 4,300 videos that we can access. Why me? Now that's not all of the videos that Farage has done on cameo we think,
because when you make your request you can tick a box to say, I'd like this video to be private. But the nature of cameo is it's a platform where you want a message to send someone and hopefully that video message they get is funny or entertaining in a way that they might want to share the link with others. So there's not too much incentive to keep all of the videos private. And what do we know about Farage's time on cameo? When did he first join it and how much time does he spend on the platform? So Farage joined the platform back in 2021, he wasn't an MP at the time, but since he became an MP we know that he's made more than 1800 videos since July 2024. Wow, okay, that is a lot when he's not only an MP but also leading a political party. And we've got the really specific data about when it is that he's doing these videos. So we know that he's took time out of his political duties. He did eight videos on the day of the election. I understand you like my smile and my sense of humor.
You know what, given the state the world's in, laughing is really, really important. It's one of the sad quick thank you for being the best donated to my amazing passing. Well, for us, our fingers, let's have joy. The thoughts are real success. He recorded two more at about 5 a.m. on election night. He did four in the morning of the Queen's funeral. Right. You can see him in his black morning garb. One producer for stagdoo and another which he made a vulgar sexual reference to shenanigans in a cabin and quote, d's nuts. Now, I know you and Arthur are planning on getting up to shenanigans in that cabin. Mmm, d's nuts. D's nuts, what? It's a very online reference, it's for various testicles. Okay, right. And he's mostly, it looks like he's filming these videos at home and he doesn't have an aid helping. He's doing it himself. Okay. And he's doing about the equivalent of almost three videos a day since he started five years ago. But that's not including all of the other videos that might have been marked as private.
And how did Farage explain the amount of time that he was spending making these videos? So when we asked Farage about this, he said, you know, I voted more times than can we bad knock and case time were combined since the 2024 election. And he said that this was proof effectively that his cameo videos were not taking away from his parliamentary responsibilities. All right, so let's have a look at Nigel Farage's profile on cameo. So there's all of these videos that he's made at the top. Some of them say birthday, some say other. Let's look at the prices. Okay, so he's saying the price is 69 pounds 92. And for that, he will deliver you a message within 24 hours. Well, you've got to pay extra actually. You don't forget the 24 hour delivery. Yeah, okay. But we also know he's kind of offering all of these reasons why you might get a video, a happy birthday, a pet talk, a roast.
And there's quite a few people who commissioned a Valentine's Day message from Nigel Farage. What can be more romantic? Exactly. So we've seen the prices that he's charging. But what kind of money is he made out of all of this? Since he's been on cameo, he's charged at least £370,000 for the videos. So it's been a nice little earner for him. So it's a very considerable amount of money that he's now making alongside his job as an MP. And so you have what service to journalism? You have looked through more than 4,000 of these videos that he's made. What kind of things are people asking him to say? So we didn't actually watch all of the videos, but instead I've read all the transcripts of all of the videos and also read all the transcripts of the requests that people have made. Now most of these requests and the videos are pretty innocuous. They are birthday wishes. Andrew Matthews or Bros. Have been in touch until we were turning 40. Christmas messages. Christian. Happy Christmas. Pep talks for fans of Farage or Reform. Up.
The good Brexit fight. Thanks to you, and to James for fighting in the great battle of our times. But as I continued reading the transcripts of what Farage had said and what he'd been asked to say by the people who were paying him, a few things jumped out. A one video which Farage charged £78 for. He was told in the prompt by the cameo user, vote National Front. Now Farage didn't say this in the video itself, but he still went ahead and made the video for this person. In another for a 70th birthday message for someone called Ken, he was told of Ken that this guy is a former UKIP supporter and dislikes the gypsies, but he still went ahead and he made a video for Ken. Ken, happy 70th. Have a fabulous day and thank you. So much for putting your head up over the parapet and helping in our great historic cause. Then there was one request in particular which linked him to the extreme fringe of the far right, but not the far right in the UK, but instead in Canada.
And who were these people in Canada that asked him to make a video and what did they want him to do for them? They asked him to make this video only 10 days after his election in July 2024. And they paid extra for speedy delivery to get it done within 24 hours. And Farage was asked to do a video promoting the Road Rage Territor. Road Rage Territor, okay. And the prompts described this as a Canadian comedy show hosted by three men, Jeremy McKenzie, Derek Harrison and Alex Zareen. We welcome too many who now hold sway. They're now writing laws that push us away. For a brighter tomorrow, a path must be found back they must go to their own ground. For a future bright, we must take a stand. They have to go back to their own land. Now, this isn't a comedy show. This is extreme far right content, masquerading as comedy.
And it's organized by a group called Diagonon. The name of this group is a reference to their logo, which is a white diagonal strip on a black background. Now, this is meant to represent our white ethnomestate stretching across North America from Alaska to Florida. Diagonon had been designated as an extremist group a few years earlier, designated as white nationalists by Justin Trudeau. Diagonon stands against everything we stand for as Canadians. So, to give you a flavour of what Diagonon is, on their website, at the time, that they were selling tickets for this Road Rage Territor. They were also selling copies of a book called Mean Camp. Oh, God. So, this is back in July 2024, and this Road Rage Territor, like how well publicised was it at the time? If you'd googled it, what would you have found out about the tour and about who was taking part in it and what kind of comedy it entailed? So, he had enough information in the prompt
to, with a few seconds of research, identify very clearly who they were. He knew the name of the event and he had the names of the organisers. And a few seconds on Google would have found lots of news stories published very recent to the time that he received the request, detailing what this group was like. And he was told that this video it was meant to be a pep talk for a woman called Andrea Hallworth. Okay. Now, Andrea Hallworth is the mayor of a city in Ontario called Hamilton. Okay. And this group wanted to bring one of their events to that city. And she'd said, I think we all agree that Hamilton is not a place for hate. And so, I think we're all equally appalled by the news of the planned visit to our city by a group that promotes hate. And within days of her, publicly speaking out against this group, they had commissioned Nigel Farage to do a video targeting her. The end of the prompt features a request to Farage to repeat what he's told is the subtitle of the show. They have to go back. Now, that's not the subtitle of the show.
Instead, this is the rallying call of the group. And it's calling for mass deportations of South Asians in order to create a white ethno state. And there's members of Jagalon, including Jeremy McKenzie, the leader explaining that slogan, meaning just get out. Just get the fuck out. They have to go back. Now, hello, Andrea Hallworth. It's Nigel Farage here. And we're told you don't like comedy. But your friends are trying to get you to a 10 row-raged terror tour comedy show. But you're hesitant. Now, look, it's hosted by Jeremy McKenzie, Derek Harrison and Alex Renn. And it's currently the most talked about show in Canada. So, do you know what, Andrea? Just sometimes in life, we're a bit reluctant, but hesitant to go and do things with them really fancy doing. But for the sake of a couple of hours of an evening, why not give it a go? You never know. You might walk out saying, road-raged terror tour is the best thing
that ever happened. And then they'll quickly show it on their social media platforms that they've had this message from the British Parliament. So, this is Nigel Farage, a newly elected MP, promoting a far-right comedy tour and essentially goading the mayor of the town where this tour is supposed to take place who was objected to their presence, saying, I'll come on, Andrea. Get over it. Sometimes in life, we have to do things that we don't like doing. And then it's used subsequently by the group in videos that they produce a spot of a retrospective on the tour that they held. I love it. Road-raged terror tour is the best thing that ever happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the cleanest people. That's what it needs. It's blatant and open racism. There is anti-Semitic imagery. There are depictions of South Asian people described as strangers that are door-taking what's ours,
in a poem that's red. Right. And there's clips of the leaders of the group putting their hands together doing Nazi salutes while saying the word racism. Racism! And a clip where a leader of the group makes shooting noises and gestures while saying, I just saw you in Brown and I just couldn't help myself. These people are not hiding who they are in any way. And the time it would have taken to consider that request and to reject it would have been no more than a minute of research. And what has Frosh had to say about the video that he made for the group? So Farage got back to us yesterday in a statement from a reform spokesman and he said the videos should not be treated as political statements or campaign activity attempting to portray these informal messages as evidence of political alignment with the individuals who requested them would therefore be entirely misleading. Mr Farage has recorded many thousands of videos for genuine supporters to celebrate weddings, congratulate friends
or send to novelty messages. At that scale, the occasional mistake can occur. He uses the platform in good faith and without knowledge of the individuals involved beyond what is written for him in the prompt. If individuals or groups subsequently choose to misuse or repurpose a cameo recording that is clearly outside Mr Farage's knowledge or control. Were there any other videos that really shocked you? Yes, so last December Nigel Farage was asked to make a video for a man named Ben and according to the video's purchaser who appeared to be members of his family and this is the prompt that they gave Farage. Ben is, quote, a long time reform member and then they say he was filmed in the 2024 summer riots, breaking up fights and helping stop clashes with police. When objects were thrown at him, he threw a bottle that hit the ground and hurt no one. He received 16 months in prison,
off-licensed in days. And that's what they told Farage. Yeah. So they laid out all of that context about what Ben had been through what he had done and then they said that he had faced abuse. There'd been a police marker on their home and they said that all of this could be verified. So using the information in that prompt, we've identified who Ben is. He's called Benjamin Tavener and in October 2024, he was given a 16-month sentence for violent disorder. Okay. And this was in relation to that summer of riots across the country and he was convicted for taking parts in a fall-right riot in Bristol which was I think targeting asylum seekers, is that right? Yeah. What do we know about what Benjamin Tavener actually did at that riot in Bristol? So we found footage of Tavener at the riots and we can see him on one side, some police horses coming in between and then on the other side, some counter protestors. And we can see him leaning back with a bottle on his hands and then between two horses,
arching a bottle it looks like to all see other group. Now, I've spoken to Tavener. He says he wasn't rioting. He says he's not far-right and instead he describes himself as patriotic. And whoever has sent forage this message has really advertised that Ben was sent to prison. What exactly did the family ask forage to record for Ben? They said the countries in ruins and reform is the way forward. Kind words from you would mean the world. So they wanted kind words for Ben who was leaving, he was coming off license finishing the end of his sentence. Ben, it's Nigel Farage here. Lossi and your mum have been in touch to tell me all about the summer riots of 2024 and you're doing your bit to try and break the whole thing up. Yeah, it all turned very, very nasty. Now, you clearly got the most incredible prison sentence. In Ben, what for the first time we saw and understood to be two-tier Britain, absolutely outrageous in every way. I don't know, you've really, really been through them and I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry. You're not alone, but that's cold come for the farm.
It's absolutely rotten. All I can say is keep your head up. Keep believing in the right things. Keep acting in the right way. And in the end, you know something Ben, in the end, good triumphs over evil. And that's the great battle that we're on because our country is in the most desperate plight. So look, all the very best to you and thank you for your support. And I'm with you as well. Well, there is quite a lot to unpack there, isn't there? Let's start with the phrase that Nigel Farage said. So keep believing in the right things. Keep acting in the right way. So he's directing this at somebody that he knows has just spent 16 months in prison. So he's been convicted of some kind of crime. What do you read into what Farage is saying there? It's striking. He's been told what Benjamin Tavana did in terms of throwing a bottle as part of riots that were happening in Bristol. And he knows the origins of that disorder. And he's suggesting that the things that Benjamin Tavana did,
which he knows led him to 16 months for sentence, were acting in the right way. Farage decided to offer his support to this guy in exchange for money. He's profiting off doing this. Yeah, how much did he make for that? For this video, he charged 141 pounds. And the risk for Farage is that he's making money off supporting someone who was convicted for taking parts in far out riots because he has made a very big deal out of looking to distance himself from people like Tommy Robinson. And he says he has done quote more than anyone else to defeat the far right in Britain. And what did Farage have to say about this particular video? He didn't address questions about this video specifically, but his position is he makes thousands of these videos mistakes happen. And that they're not evidence of his political leanings. He's also said he's long been clear in his opposition to extremism and to political violence.
So did you find any other examples amid all of these videos of him really leaning into far right talking points or far right memes? Yeah, I saw this phrase pop up again and again. And it's this term, if and doubt, kick him out. One I can make, I've spoken to, described it as a well-established far right slogan. And it's used to refer to minority groups of people, and if there's any kind of question over whether they should be here, deporting them. Now, Farage has been asked to use this phrase for years. So the 26 requests that mentioned the if and doubt, kick him out term. And there's four ways that he handled the request. The first time he's asked to use it, he actually recommends you should be careful. You're considering a podcast with a title, kick them out. They, that could be misconstrued is all I would warn you. Maybe think about a different title.
So that shows straight away that first time he's asked that we are a well, that he knows there could be some question marks of this phrase. But then there's a few other occasions where he repeats the phrase. Now, remember, if and doubt, kick him out, I'm asked to add if and doubt, kick him out. But then in most of the occasions where he uses the phrase, instead he does it by alluding to it. And if and doubt, get rid of those who ought not to be here, if and doubt, remove them, of course. If and doubt, proper border controls, free. And then the other way that he might elude to it is to say, if and doubt, well, you know the rest. If and doubt, we know what to do, don't we? If and doubt, well, you know what to do. Yeah, especially comes attached with a wink, that doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. It's a winking nod to say, we're both on the same wavelength. You've asked me to use this phrase, I'm not going to use it myself, but I'm going to acknowledge it. Yeah. And then there's a handful of instances where he's asked to use the phrase and he just doesn't include it at all in the video. Right, and let's not forget, we are talking at a time where the question of what it takes to be British,
what it takes to be considered British, is increasingly being called into question, particularly by people from within for our own party. You know, you have somebody like Matt Goodwin, who came second in the Gorton and Denton by election, just the other week, who has said it takes more than a piece of paper to be British. And even if you are officially a British citizen, that that might not be enough. Yeah, I mean, once you get to the question of there being doubts about whether or not someone deserves to be here, then it poses the question, who's thinking of that, who's going to be the arbiter of that, who's going to say, well, we've got a little bit of doubt, and so we're going to get rid of you. He did seem to be aware right when he was first asked to record a cameo, including the if and doubt, kick him out phrase, that it could be misconstrued, that it was a loaded phrase. So it shows that he was mindful to a degree that some of these videos could potentially what be damaging to him, do you think? Cammy O'Fourage is a balancing act between enough
winking nods and references to his audience that he's popular and is seen as someone who's kind of quite online, understands some of the memes, but not too much that he risks destroying his career by being found to have said something that he really ought not to have. Now, a few years ago, Nigel Fourage was juped into saying, up the rar, kind of Irish nationalist slogan, up the rar. Yeah, the rar being the IRA. Yeah. Up the rar, Nigel. I mean, I know that you said sorry, I know you get 87 quid, it's entirely within your rights to do that, but don't try and lecture the Irish people about the culture and history and precarious nature of peace on this island. You haven't got a clue. When this came out, there was some news stories written about it, and he said that he would never respond to requests that he deemed crude or offensive, and he said, you know, when I saw that request, I didn't kind of understand the significance of it,
but most of the videos aren't about him being juped into saying something embarrassing. Instead, the videos that we've looked at that we think are really significant interest are about him taking money from people expressing offensive views. We never have to beat the war on woke, the nonsense, the idea that a bloke puts on a dress and calls himself a woman, etc. And what about other requests that he's getting from users? So we've seen a prompt where he was asked to produce a video for someone who's interested in conspiracy theories, and Farage was asked to quote, talk about how the world is going to shit and how secret societies are controlling everything. So he's not given any real specifics there, but what he chooses to do is to name some conspiracy theories. Is it a whole series of secret societies? Is it the Bilderbergers that are running the world? You know, there are many, many other theories. It could be the Masons, something it's the Rothschilds. Maybe it's George Soros, I don't know.
What I do know is actually, I don't think any of it's a conspiracy theory. I think it's just Marxism that is coming back to haunt the world. We asked experts what the reference to these conspiracy theories. So he wasn't prompted to give those names. He offers them up himself. And they say that these four together refer to in varying degrees to anti-Semitic tropes. They're used as part of conspiracy theories alleging that Jewish people are secretly running the world. Their ask was there anything else? He's made misogynistic references to Alexandria Cartier Cortez, the US Congresswoman, and in particular her breasts. If you're simpering for Alexandra Occasio Cortez's big naturals, you may not be thorn in a very good place. He's made a reference as part of a roast by request to someone who said, effectively, I hope you don't have a crush on Diane Abbott. Rumour to have a secret crush on Diane Abbott. Well, I hope that's not true. That's by the time he's an MP and Diane Abbott
is one of his colleagues in Westminster. Right. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Most of the videos, and certainly the ones that people get as the finished product, are fowage the man has seen on television, as seen in public, fowage the politician. But we found his outtakes. Yes, we want to bring Lauren older back to our streets of a fuck snake. From what we can tell, these outbursts tend to happen when he's recording a message, but then he gets interrupted with a call or a text. It looks like he feels annoyed and inconvenient. He's recording these messages, but something's getting in the way. Very strong views that you share with me when I'm so good. Fuck's sake, you can't. That wasn't right, Paul. The entry language was at hand, right? No, he gets angry really quickly. Coming up, what do these cameos tell us about the man who could be Britain's next prime minister?
Chicago, 2011. A cop is murdered. Police and prosecutors swear they have the trigger man. He swears he didn't do it. How far will each side go to prove their right? Like it's just one bombshell after another. You know where you're like, what, what? The story of a playstation, a brain eating amoeba, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Off duty, out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Shipping, building, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want, with stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24.7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk-free for 60 days.
Parle tu français? Ablece espagnol? Parle italiano. If you've used Babel, you would. Babel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by the 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babel today. Get up to 55% of your Babel subscription right now at babel.com slash a cast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-O.com slash a cast. Rules and restrictions may apply. And I guess some people might be listening to this and think, well, he wasn't saying this stuff in public. It was all just for private cameo videos. So he was just a joke, really. Why does all of this matter? Or would you say to that? I think his use of cameo is really intelligence, actually.
He knows what people want from it. And he has a relationship with the people who are buying videos. He makes reference to something called Big Chungus when he's asked to kind of do internet memes because it's something from years ago when he first started. Big Chungus, the true sigma says, but reform. It's a way for him to build a relationship with voters in particular, maybe younger voters, he thinks. Because while the videos themselves might be private in the sort of overall content of them, these videos do get shared. They get propagated on social media platforms by the people who receive them, who are chaffed to have got a funny message from someone that they view as perhaps inspiring or just look at what politicians are willing to do and say for money. And the deaf things you can get command in his 60s to say. So it's not only free publicity. It's publicity he has paid to make. And this latest investigation of yours comes just a couple of months after your last investigation
into Nigel Farage, along with our colleague Dan Boffy, which found that more than 30 former schoolmates of Nigel Farage, as well as teachers from the school he attended in South London, accused him of using racist and antisemitic language as well as bullying younger children. And he's changed his story a little bit on that over time, but ultimately he said he never intended to upset anybody and that anyway, it was a long time ago. And I just wonder, what insight do you think these cameo messages give into Farage, the man now? Farage, the leader of the reform party? I think the video shows what he's willing to say for money, ultimately, and what he's willing to do for money. And this is someone who wants to be the next prime minister. So what he's willing to do and say for money is obviously very relevant today. What the video show in that regard is someone who is willing to wink and reference to Farage's phrases, who seems blasey enough
to not do the basic enough research when given all the details about a group of Canadian neo-Nazis. And to give ringing endorsements of the activities of someone convicted of violent disorder in summer riots. And then there's other questions about his character more personally in terms of the offensive things that he's willing to say in repeat. And if you want to be prime minister, making offhand, flippant, misogynistic, or transphobic references, isn't necessarily the character that people would want to vote for. And when you contrast it to our stories about his time at Dullage, well, his defense there, when I was a teenager, this happened a long, long time ago. These videos are during his political career. And so he knows what you can and can't say what's offensive. And then he's continuing to do it to make huge amounts of money as an MP. And the time that he's spending on those videos, the fact that he's got half plus five
on the day of the election, recording videos. If you're one of his constituents, are you wondering, if I want to get a message from him, do I need to pay him on cameo? Yeah. I think it goes back to that question of, here's what he will say for money. So what's he going to say for power? Henry, thank you very much. Thank you, Helen. That was Henry Dyer at the Guardian's Investigations Correspondent. You can read his reporting on Nigel Farage, which he did together with Data Correspondent Michael Goodier at TheGuardian.com. And you can watch a full video of this episode on YouTube. This episode was produced by Eleanor Biggs, an Eli Block, and presented by me, Helen Pitt. Sound Assign was by Brian McNamara, video production was by James Tindale, and the executive producers were Hermically Lee and Sammy Kent. We'll be back later today with the latest. This is TheGuardian.
If you've used Babel, you would. Babel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by the 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babel today. Get up to 55% of your Babel subscription right now. At Babel, you'll be able to find out of your Babel subscription right now at Babel.com-acast spelled B-A-B-B-E-O.com-acast Rules and restrictions may apply. Shipping, building, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want, with stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com.
Go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk-free for 60 days.
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