What Every Woman Should Know About Low Libido and the Pink Pill

0:00Welcome back to the Tamson Show. Let's talk about sex or better yet, the lack of it. Because one thing nobody warned me about in midlife is that you can wake up one day and your libido is gone, like disappeared gone, not there anymore. What comes with it though, isn't just frustration. It's guilt sometimes. It's pressure. I'm always wishing your head asking, what is wrong with me? Men got pill after pill after pill to treat low libido. As women, we're told we're too stressed, our hormones are out of whack, we're just getting older, nothing we can do to get it back, just try to figure it out and we try to figure it out on our own. My guest today, I'm so excited to introduce you to, is here to challenge all that and to prove that this does not have to be our reality. Wendy Eckerd is a founder and CEO of Sprout Pharmaceuticals, the company behind Addie, the first and only FDA approved treatment for low sexual desire in women.

1:04She is one of the few women in history to sell a company for a billion dollars and the only one we know of who bought it back. She's also the founder of the Pink Sealing, which invest in women-led companies and women's health. Before we dive in, if you're loving the Tamson Show, please take 30 seconds right now to just leave us a review. It is a single best way to help us reach more and more people who are ready for real conversations. All right, let's go ahead and get started. Okay, you ready for rapid fire? Let's do it. I always want to say a cost more for a friend. I know, it's so fun. I want to hop over into your seat. Okay, what's the biggest myth about women's sexual desire that it is all rooted in your emotion and not in your biology? Is low desire normal or is that something we should question? I think anything that feels off for you should be questioned. One thing partners often misunderstand about women's desire, that if you don't want it anymore, it's all about them. I'm going to so have fun with you today. What does a healthy sex life look like for most women?

2:04The healthy sex life is that you get to define it completely on your own terms, but don't give it up because it is part of overall health. And that leads to this next question. Is it possible to get your desire back at an age? Oh, it is possible. Have I got a story for you? I can't wait. True false. Low libido is just a normal part of aging for women. False, false, false, false. What's something women are blaming themselves for these days? It is not their fault. Basically every symptom that they're not getting good answers on. You build a men's sexual health committee first. What shock you most when you switch to women's? The resistance. And it's still going on. Right? I'm making candy from a baby. Cindy, that's so good to see you. Thank you. Thank you for wearing your signature pink. For people who are listening, Cindy, every time I have seen you and I don't even know how many years now, everything is pinked out. I love it. I love it. So go to YouTube and see this gorgeous woman. So I want to start with, you know, you've done so many incredible things and continue to

3:07do it every day. And I feel like women's health and this category, and especially when we talk about sexual health, is energized by you and what you've done. Oh, thank you. It really is. If you look at the biggest misconceptions about women's sexual health that we need to clear up right away, what would that be? The biggest misconception is that it doesn't matter. I mean, honestly, that was my starting point in this is that it was completely disregarded. And then I think what we do is we tell women, well, this is just an emotional thing, go work on it as opposed to respecting that is a biological thing and it deserves attention. What do you think women's sexual health or just women's health in particular has been pushed to the back burner for so long? Honestly, because of that very basis, if something goes wrong for men, we say biology. And we address it. If something goes wrong for women, we say psychology and we pattern on the shoulder and tell her, just relax, honey. And I know you've talked about, like, what happens inside of a doctor's office?

4:07I've heard you talk about that before. Can we go into that a little bit? Because I feel like if there's a woman listening to you and goes, okay, yeah, I go to the doctor, sure. How do I bring that up? What doctor do I bring it up to? How do I even start this conversation? I mean, you and I really kind of grew up in that same generation. I think I'm older than you. But we didn't talk about sex. We started leading go to our doctor and be like, I've got some, I've got some low libido happening. I didn't even know the words. What is that normal reaction that women get when they go to a doctor? I think I was horrified when the stats were put out online and actually a woman did this very thing. She went to her doctor and she's like, hey, and it's always that last conversation where you're working yourself up for it. And you're like, I got one more question. I'm not interested anymore. And it's fascinating. She put it up what her doctor said and said, has anybody else done this? And she was bombarded overnight with other women's responses. And then she tabulated them. About 80% of them were told that's normal.

5:09And then you start to tick through. They were told to lose weight. They were told to buy sexier lingerie. They were told zero of them were told, you know, it might just be your biology betraying you. And that is the answer. So I come from it from a very data driven, I'll call it even nerdy way where this is just science. This is just biology and you deserve to have it addressed. So let's go back to the beginning. You started an immense sexual health company. Yeah, I built one of them. Can you imagine this pink and a sea of blue pills, a little bit of an outlier, admittedly? Okay, but that's all right. They needed some of that flannel. Yeah. So you build immense sexual health company. Yes. And then said, wait a minute, what's going on? We got a lot of stuff going on out here for men. Yeah. What's going on with the women? Can I tell you the truth? I loved it. I loved actually watching what happens when you can fix this problem for somebody because sex is such a sex is human connection. It is being connected to the person you've chosen to be the most connected to in the

6:10world. And when that breaks, so much breaks in your life. So I actually loved being in the space, but one day I'm standing at a medical conference and they show a study about women struggling with their libido and I promise you I can like transport myself back to that moment. Light means struck me. And the whole room looked at these brain scan images and they were like, holy shit, it's biology. And it was eye opening for me too because I hadn't considered it. Like how obtuse that we would not consider that something could be going on for women biologically. And it was like a calling. At that point, I looked at what I was doing and I said, hold on, there are 26 at that time. 26 FDA approved treatment options for men to lead a more satisfying sex life, but zero for women and more women struggle with issues related to libido and other sexual issues than men do. More women have low libido than men have ED.

7:13That's mind boggling to me. Mind blowing. Why do you think that started like that back then though? Why do you think we were built? I mean, it takes a while to build 26 companies or 26 products or pills to help men. Why do you think that happened for so long? Well, I mean, look, we know women weren't even mandated to be part of health studies. So 93. 93. That's crazy to me. Yeah, great. I think, oh my gosh, where was I in 1993? Right. What was that? What was that long ago? So that does make sense. But still, from 1993 to where we are today, there still has amount of lots. So when did you, you said, I'm going to fight this, let me drop it. It did. I sold off my profitable business and then to take this on and really went back to ground zero and was addressing it like this is just data, this is science, this is actually a spectacular scientific discovery and the whole world went like this. And what I figured out, I don't want it. Absolutely. Like the ridicule, the smear, the death threats. Like you can't even, but leave me.

8:14Death threats of what? A willingness to start a company. Oh, are you kidding? Like I was going to give women a pill for pleasure, how dare you. And I think at the root of that is really that pleasure is a birthright. We believe that for men. It's sort of, you know, men's right to receive and women's obligation to deliver. And if you start to recognize that pattern, you see it show up over and over and over again. And it's, I think not even conscious. Like I don't think the people I was up against are bad people. I think they were just sort of culturally programmed, if you will, to resist this idea. I mean, I think we've seen that all along culture programed with everything. Totally. Was that investors? Was that media? Was that, I don't know, was that pharmaceutical? Who was it that said, no, we don't need this. I think I'm a bit of a misfit in every one of those arenas. I was an outlier. I think that you start with a regulatory system that has a very different set of standards for women's health drugs. So it's a complete double standard.

9:16You then get to media and if you look at articles on women's health, I'm going to encourage everybody listening to do this. We lead with risk. When you talk about men's health, we lead with benefit. Okay, wait, so explain that to me. So if we are talking about a discovery for women or a potential treatment, we tell them, ooh, this is scary. And if we do it for men, we're like, oh, look at all these things it could do for you. It's wild. What? The framing is so. So now you're tackling the regulatory environment. You're tackling the media environment that also really frames a women's issue. You're talking about advertising in a traditional sense. All of our ads got taken down. Every single ad you can't talk about sex for women. You talk about insurance. It has a double standard. We still to this day while we are winning an insurance, but it is a fight. We still occasionally see a woman who they say, well, you can't have this product. You have to fail marriage counseling first.

10:16So I want to talk about that because I had a personal experience that I don't know if I ever shared with you or not. But so you created Adi. Yes. Right? What year was that? It's my started in 2011. That's when I had that aha moment and sold off the company and men to take it on. And so I'm doing this now for women. Yes. The pill is not going to be blue anymore. That's right. The pill is going to be pink. Yes. Okay. There's no colorant in the pill. Isn't that funny? Okay. Life treats you. That actually, it just naturally has that hue. Okay. I love that. And what is Adi? What does Adi do for a woman who can take it? Who should not take it? Okay. You know, how do you get it? It's the only FDA approved pill for women's desire. If you were happy with your desire at one point, something's changed. It's bothering you. That is who this is for. It's non-hormonal. So it can be taken by women who take hormones. It can be taken by women who can't take hormones. And you know, it's really a decision to be made with your doctor. I hold no opinion. I should say this now on whether or not you ever take a pill.

11:19I have a very strong opinion on whether or not you know you have that option. What happens to a woman who had desire and doesn't have it anymore? Outside of what happens in a relationship in the bedroom, in terms of pleasure with her body. And there's a whole other factor that is confidence and feeling good about yourself and how it pertains to every other part of her life, I think. The data shows it so clearly of the profound impact. So I always say if it breaks down in the bedroom, it breaks down at the breakfast table in a relationship with a partner. And it really breaks down in that story in your head that you tell yourself. It's really, I couldn't believe it. So when I saw this science at that conference, I spent a year just talking to women. That was in 2010. So I started this in 2011. For a year prior to that, I just spoke to a woman struggling with this and here's what struck me. They were from different walks of life. They were different ages. They were in different relationship status.

12:20All of them told me the exact same story. They said, I love my partner. I never think about it. It's like the switch went out. They said it over and over and over again. And you know, I've shared this, even though it was me. And like until I sat in front of another woman and she told a story like she was me, I was her with different situations. But it was that switch having gone out that was the access to something that is so deeply personal. It is that ownership of your pleasure. And I think that transcends the bedroom. I know it does. I don't think there's any question at all. That switch goes out. Was there an average age that was happening? Was it all around Perry Menopause? Menopause? Or do you see it post more? What are those numbers? It's fascinating. So we studied in our clinical trials, 18 to 80. Oh, wow. I didn't realize it started so. Super broad. We recently got an approval for postmenopausal population, which is huge and was unfinished

13:25business for me because I think culturally at the time I began, like think how much you've done to advance this conversation, we really did act like desire expires. Yes. Like at a certain age. And so, you know, to have that audience, no question like our kind of main group that you take out of your 45 to 60. 45 to 60. So how do you take out of you? Let's talk about that. And who should? So something goes, oh my gosh, I'm listening to Cindy right now. And she's talking to me. Yeah. The lights have gone out. Like I love my partner, have a good time. We laugh together, but I don't even, it doesn't even cross my mind until maybe the person, the partner brings it up. That's it. It's, you take it one stale at bedtime. It's non hormonal. It's building in your system. What's really happening and what I saw that day in those brain scans is the part of the brain that basically ignites sexual desire goes out. Like the fact that they were saying the switch went off is like actually really what's happening biologically. So it's not surprising there in touch with that.

14:28And I think you, you know, again, sex is very personal. If you're not having sex and you don't care, you would never be a candidate for this. But if you really are struggling with that loss, it's bothering you, it's causing some issues. Please talk to your doctor about it. You'll make the best decision based on other medications, your own, et cetera. But I just think it's so important to know that that conversation is there for you to have. How did you take it from having a year of conversations? Yeah. To the next step, which is, oh my goodness, creating this, you know, finding money for this, deciding, you know, pushing this through because you've had a lot of fights in D. Oh my God. You have a lot of fights. I know. You know, when you're pink, when I look at the, and the pink is a bit of a reference, right? Like the pink is, the pink actually in my most honest moments is armor. The pink became like suiting up to go into battle because the dismissiveness of all the little pink pill was so profound that it actually showed me that's exactly what we need.

15:29I'm going to challenge that assumption in you. I'm going to show up in neon pink and we're going to have this conversation. And I think that to me is part of it. I mean, despite the fact of having built insult, a successful male sexual health company, when I showed up to raise money for this, I was laughed out of the room. Why though? What was the last or part of this? I would think it's very, at the very low-hanging fruit, the marked opportunity. Well, you could sell more men's pills. Yes, if you've got women, you've got to have this fair. Very fair. I think it, again, is just this like trivialization of women's real struggles and what they're really bothered by. Like it felt like the joke at the party. And so, you know, I just was determined and lucky me. Like it's funny how in life. And I know this so well, knowing each other, like sometimes the path being hard becomes the salvation.

16:29Like the curse of not getting any of that capital was I had to work harder and I got people who do invest, who really gave a shit about changing culture. And so they stuck with me through all the battles. Like if I had a traditional kind of VC check, they would have been out the door, the first challenge with FDA. And this was a group who, I think for all of my team, who I love dearly, this has never been about a pill. It turns out it was about something so much bigger than that. It's the message, it's a culture, it's the next generation, it's confidence, it's went, I mean, it really is, it's incredible. So let's talk about the struggles with FDA for what I think. And then I want to talk about what you share on Instagram a lot because you share a lot of women's stories on Instagram and doctors reactions. And I think that that's really something that I want women to hear and re-hear so they feel comfortable if they get some of those same responses. So let's talk about the FDA for what has to happen in this process. It's not just create a pill, it's getting on the market. So it all works out, right?

17:31It is quite a slog. It takes years and years. I mean, I'm very proud of you mentioned earlier. Women weren't even mandated to be included in clinical trials until 1993. We have 13,000 women in clinical trials. Like we've always been about put your money where your mouth is. You know, I don't sell it to her if I don't study it in her. Like I have a very high standard. I think the FDA should hold me to a very high standard. Like that's the job I signed up for. We want that. We want that oversight. We don't want an overreach where they're making, you know, sort of, you know, their own subjective judgments on whether or not it matters if a woman has pleasure. That's where I took issue. But I mean, that's a long process to go through with the FDA. Unfortunately, in my very first meeting with them, beautiful soldier, you know, showing up, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited. We're going to study women. This is going to be groundbreaking. And my first question was like, well, what do we need a bunch of horny women running around for? What? Exactly. And I, what did you, what did you say?

18:34Honestly, the eternal optimist, I walked out and I said, science cures bias. We will win based on the data. And but like it was so eye opening to me. And I, we have so many mutual friends in common who, you know, stood with me in the room at the FDA and like lines like that were delivered at moments. And what year was that, Cindy? That was in, I started probably the first conversation with FDA was 2012. 12, okay. So just a reference. So this is not, you know, wasn't 1950. No, exactly. It felt like it though. And I can remember like being in conversation in these like little comments, like one of the side effects of Adi is it makes you sleepy. It's you mean almost every other prescription drug of the market. Yes, precise. Although, you know, with us, it's so much, again, women's health, like we're going to frame it. But, you know, it's why you dose it daily at bedtime. And one of the comments was, well, are women just having more sex with their husbands because

19:35they're sleepy? It's so incredibly crazy to my head. It's so upsetting. It's so upsetting. Like in, I think we'll talk about the film, but like watching back what was said to women who were like, I'm struggling. We know scientifically that it could be an imbalance of again this sort of sex center of the brain. And we're still saying these things. Like that's outrageous. So it was, I have a funny relationship with the FDA. Look, here's the deal. I don't want a world without one. I like whole companies through the highest scientific standard demand that they study it in women's bodies before it is given to women, et cetera. But I also will be their loudest critic when I think that they're making opinion based judgements and not scientific ones. Now, they rejected it twice. They did. Two times. Yeah. And then what happened? We fought them on the basis of data. And I just, that's the truth.

20:35Like did I, you know, take on the FDA for women's pleasure just because I thought it would be fun. No, no, I did it because we had the receipts. So I think, you know, a bit of rebel with receipts. I'll show you the data. Let's go. We're going to talk about every one of these issues that we've looked at. But it became a very public conversation. And in many ways, you know, I think that harmed the mission in the sense that it was a field day for everyone to weigh in. I have a picture where I'm looking at a newspaper. And I was in a hotel room in New York City. And it was like the first article about us. And it said, female Viagra, isn't that jewelry? Oh my gosh. Cindy, like every single line is shocking to me. I've known you for a long time and I did no mostly things. It's stunning. And like I was so, it was me. They were, they were talking down to me. Yeah. Right. I wanted this product. Yeah. I was struggling with this.

21:36I thought I deserved it. I knew on the science. And there was something that could be done for it. And you're still saying this shit. And it's not that long ago. And I think all of that though, built the resolve to just keep going. But you know, that inviting the public in because the FDA was, again, I mean, FDA ultimately was saying everything, every decision the FDA makes on any product is risk benefit. Right. So all medications you take, whether they're a pharmaceutical prescription or they're over the counter at, you know, the retail pharmacy, they all have risks and benefits. If you assign no value to the benefit of something, if you go, this doesn't really matter. If they get relief, then any risk could be too great. And that's where we were getting caught up, right? Is the value judgment on like, does it matter if women have more desire for sex? And so, you know, that's really culturally, I think, what we were taking on in that conversation. And look, the playbook is simple.

22:36Push the women to the center of the conversation. Who deserves the mic, if not the women who are struggling with themselves? And I think to the FDA's credit, they finally gave them their forum and opened their doors and let them speak. And what happened? We got approved. What year was that? 2015. It's amazing. But only pre-menopausal. Just pre-menopausal until now. Until now. Yeah. It's post-menopausal. It is. And who can take it? Up to 65. That's kind of FDA's cutoff for geriatric. So up to 65. Oh my God. Am I going to be geriatric? 10 years according to FDA. No. I will work on next one. Let's work on that, dear. I'll go that fight with you. Right, let's do it. So, you know, and I think women can take it. If they, it's a questionnaire. It's called the Decree Sexual Desire Screener. You can take the quiz online. It's published. It's on the NIH's website. And it's basically, here's my shorthand, where you once happy with your sex drive.

23:37Has that changed? Has that change been persistent? And does it bother you? And honestly, like, it's very similar to a man struggling with ED. Like he walks into the doctor's office. He's like, hey, like I want to try that blue pill. Like, it's, you know, you are defining kind of your own sexual function in many ways of what normal looks like for you and what you want to have access to. What would you like every woman to walk into their doctor's office and say if they're dealing with this? I'd like them to say, I'm struggling with my libido and I want to explore what's going on biologically. So you sold your company. I did. Correct. It was. Yes. Here was that. That was in 2015. And most people would have been like, thanks for the check. Yeah. And that's this, this is Annie. This is Annie. Yeah. And then what happened? They never launched it. And so I was so sad. What people don't know about this story is it was 32 of us in that company that crossed the finish line with the first drug ever for women's desire.

24:39And we were really proud of it and committed to the cause. But we basically sold it, thinking that we needed a global partner who could march it across the world, make it affordable, make it accessible, and then they shelved it. And then Cindy stepped in again. You better believe it. I sued them for not upholding their contract. I got it back. And now it's on the market. You're just incredible. You know, I want to tell you my story real fast. I was looking for testosterone for low libido. Yeah. And I went to a gynecologist and she said, you're going to need to go to a sexual therapist first and explain why it is that you are looking for an increased sex strife. Nope. Can you imagine? So wait, but I didn't know any of this. This is before all this, before my mouth got so big. And I was so vocal. I went and talked to the therapist who made me feel like there was something mentally wrong with me. Like I wanted sex all the time. And I was like, I don't know. I don't even know why I'm answering these questions. And finally, I said, it's like something is wrong here.

25:41And so I'm like, I'm chewing this. And so I went without testosterone because I was like, I don't want to be at a million times. I'm embarrassed. Yes. It was something wrong with me. And finally found a gynecologist, obviously, and the doctors that we all know now, to say, like, you shouldn't be going to be forced to go talk to a sexual therapist or whatever it is, a sexual health therapist to explain yourself. That's the imagine. And you see that, though, that's the emotion versus biology. That is the, that is the brush off that is not taking you seriously. And that is no, that is not discounting the role of therapy or anything else. Of course not. Of course not. Of course not. Of course not. Of course not. Imagine for just a second if we were to say to a man, here you can have the blue pill. But first you must feel marriage counseling. Like set out loud. It's so ridiculous to us. And yet it's happening to women. It's exactly what you experienced. I'm sorry you did. And actually if anyone listening has that response, the hell with them find a different doctor. And you know, you asked me, like, who can people see anyone can write Addy?

26:43Okay. Like we see nurse practitioners, primary care, OBGYNs, urologists, like the whole gamut. I mean, actually today, probably one of the things we're most proud of is that in order to become a board certified, any of those, I, specialties I just mentioned, you have to answer a question about Addy. I love that. Me too. And about testosterone. You know, my first company was a testosterone company. Sure. So a lot of women take testosterone and Addy. And so, you know, it's just fascinating to see how the dialogue is changing about women's right to pleasure. And that low libido is a medical condition. And it's beyond me that we haven't gotten beyond that yet, but we're going to get there. And you're spearheading it from the very, very front of the lawn. Thank you. You have a film. Yes. All about Addy and you and the little pink pill. Can you tell me a little bit about it? Three years ago, I got called by some investigative journalist and they said, we're going to make a movie about your story. And I said, please never call me again. Oh, you did? Why?

27:43Because it watched the movie and you'll see why, like just again, all of that smear and like, frein' mean. And we'd made so much progress. And I just was like, I can't go back and relitigate the things already fought in one because people have such a weird relationship with women and sex. And I will give, I mean, they're phenomenal. Like award-winning director and they're phenomenal women who did this story. And it is my greatest honor that they told it. But that, I think it just was that I had never allowed myself to go back. And it ended up being quite therapeutic. I can remember they showed me the film first. So completely independent. I had no say, terrifying. Like, so you know what it was going to be? They were putting it together. They had, there's so much in the public record, right? Yeah. Shifty A hearing, everything else that they could do that. And I think that there, like one act for me is before it premiered. They came and showed it to me in the office. And I can remember same armor.

28:45I'm going into the room like I don't know what it's going to be. I mean, how terrifying to have like an investigative journalist go tell him to watch your life's work and you're just like, oh my god, what is this going to be? And we were maybe like five minutes in and I could just feel the tears. Like I went right back into that room with women being dismissed, being told it was their fault. And like it, it's actually been an unbelievable like release for me to get to sit in a theater and hear people gasp. And you know, there's an approval. We said there were 26 drugs for men. Like when we were going through the fight, this 26 one got approved and it's for curvature of the penis. And the side effect, again, we're going to go back to risk benefit, right? One of the risks, penile rupture. That's a risk. So you're dick can explode. But you can't be sleepy, Tamsen. What did you just say? You're dick can explode. And you can still have access to this because sex is really important to you, sir.

29:47But Tamsen, you can't be sleepy. That's insane. That's insane. Like in so to listen to audiences, it's so fun because I really will tell you, I really what I saw in myself going through this process is that for this last, you know, 16 years, I've just been trying to explain it through data. If you just cannot, if you'll just look at the science, if you'll just look at the data, if you'll just respect what science gave us the answer a long time ago, we just have to get out of our own way to listen to it. And something switched when I watched the film, I was like, you know what? I no longer have to answer your stupid questions. You have to tell me why you're still asking such stupid questions, right? Wow. So fascinating. Like why are you in the face of evidence that we've now had, like here, here's a revelation for all your listening audience. There is more data in a drug to treat women's sexual function than any of the male drugs.

30:52It tells you everything about culture, about where we are, about how much we need a move. And the fact that it's 2026 every day boggles my mind, same boggles my mind, but we're changing it. And I feel so excited that women just don't accept it anymore. They go into the doctor's office and they tell them some ridiculous thing and they're like, no. And again, take me seriously on the basis of my biology is the mantra I want you to say to yourself before you go to any doctor's appointment. What are some of the craziest stories that you have heard from women? Is there one in particular that stands out? I can't. I mean, what you've already told me shocked me 10 times today. But yeah, so there's so many. I think there was a, I just posted this. So it's just top of mind. And it was a young woman. And I think I loved it so much because she's younger and she went in. She'd been struggling with the sinus issue and she walked in, like having waited forever to see the specialist. They ordered a CT scan and he tells her, it's just, it's just your hormones.

31:54And she goes, well, what did my CT scan show? And he's like, oh, let me look at it. What? He diagnosed her without even looking at the data. And so that's one story. And she was like in her car after the appointment. You can just see her exasperation. She's like, what? Like how do you get to, you know, a diagnosis without any detail? Well, we're getting in the details. Yeah. All right. I have one question for you. What do you want every woman to know about her sexual health moving forward that she's probably not hearing from her doctor? Your sexual health is part of your overall wellness and vitality. There's a single study out of Harvard. It predicted what is, what is the best predictor of your mental and physical health at 80? It is the quality of your closest intimate relationship at 50. Wow. It's part of health, physical health, mental health, the revolution that's coming everybody,

32:58sexual health. And your spearheading, my friend. Thank you. It's so good to see you. You too. If anyone's listening, you've got to go to YouTube too and just see the pink and the Cindy and everything about it, where can we find the film and where can we find more about you and Adi? The film is streaming on Paramount Plus. So Paramount Plus or Amazon Prime. And please follow me at CindyPinkCEO. And Adi is ADDY.com, named after Addison, on Grey's Anatomy. So that's how you can remember it. And thanks so much for having me on, Tamson. Thank you. Thanks for everything.