Western Rookie - Elk Success In Harsh Conditions

0:00This episode of the sportsman's empire is brought to you by Interstate Batteries. Since 1952 Interstate Batteries has been evoking compassion and a trustworthy spirit into the surrounding communities. Interstate Batteries is a mission driven company fueled by purpose and guided by their values. If you need help locating a specific battery, stop into your local Interstate Batteries retail store and speak with a battery specialist. They even offer cell phone repairs. Interstate Batteries outrageously dependable. All right everybody this is the Western rookie podcast and I will say that one of the guys responsible for getting me out and getting me to a Western state to go hunt different species is this guy that we're talking to today and it's dude it sucks like if I had the means and I had the time I would come visit you in Colorado every single year and find a way to go hunt with you every

1:04single year but as you know with you got a you got a boy and I got kids and schedules and jobs and all that stuff it just comes becomes increasingly hard but if the time ever opened up Adam Parr would be a guy who would be on my let's go hunting together list. Let's do it man yeah can't wait yeah I know it's it's it's honestly kind of wild how like kids like it changes everything about your life and and your plans kind of get put on hold right but like still try to do what you can but you're more and welcome in my place anytime Dan. Yeah I can't wait to hunt with you again. Yeah I know I know here I some day we got to make that happen yeah okay so you live in Colorado it is it is September I think what I want to do first is before we get into the actual hunting in the season you mentioned something before we started recording about in 2028 there's going to even be some more regulation changes for the state of

2:05Colorado for not just non-residents but for residents as well is that true right yeah leave it to Colorado they just man I see it's like every like a couple of years it's like something's like drastically changing and it's already like a very complicated state like most people I talk to are like man I don't even know where to start with like preference points and like how you apply for the draws and there's eight tags and B tags and there's you know first second third fourth choice in your tags and you know there's just so much going on but I feel like the new changes that are coming do help kind of simplify things and we'll make it the point creep come down hopefully that's like kind of their intention too and like kind of make it a little more fair for everybody so Colorado used to be a state where you just show like years ago used to be a state you just show up by your elk tag and go hunting right that has got since gone away and now is there any over the

3:08counter units left in Colorado that you know of for non-resident the only thing that's over the counter currently for elk or really any species pretty much elk is second rifle and third rifle which is usually like mid-delay October for second rifle and like early to mid-November for third rifle in specific units right yeah there's certain over over the counter units only so that you still have your draw units that you know you can't hunt on and over the counter tag but if there's if it's listed as an over the counter unit you can hunt you know any of those units you don't have to be tied to a specific unit so you can unit hop or you know kind of decide whenever you want just come out by your tag at Walmart but yeah for a non-resident two years ago they changed it for archery because when you came out and what was that 2018 yeah think when you came out that was over the counter you could buy your tag at the office or you know sporting

4:11good store wouldn't you showed up but now now all those archery units that were over the counter for non-resident are now draw so you have to apply now they're like depending on the units there could be 200 left over you know after the primary draw and they color out or does a secondary draw where you can you know purchase those or or if it if they make it through that they'll go to the leftover list and you can purchase it that way but yeah you know like the unit we hunted two years ago or when they first did the non-resident draw for archery there was like a couple hundred licenses left over this year there was there was none so they all sold out so you just never know how it's gonna shake out yeah as a resident there have you because of this these new regulations whether it's archery season or rifle season have you seen a change in the amount of people at the trail heads on the roads during the hunting season yeah for the first so when they

5:13did it the first year so this would this fall is the second year of of non-resident's going to a draw for archery you know I do the cabin rentals and stuff where where we hunted and you can book those and hunt for a week or whatever but we we didn't have actually any archery we had one booking the whole season it was for first rifle and so I think it like kind of people didn't know they couldn't really plan around it to know if they were gonna get drawn or not and so the first year I noticed a pretty big drop you know as far as people pressure this year I was up there at the cabins two weeks ago kind of getting everything ready for groups coming in yeah and there was already you know couple two three camps up on that road and I didn't even go down the other places to some of those meadows so yeah um I definitely and all those tags like I mentioned sold out for this year during the draw so I I think there's gonna be more pressure plus there was a wildfire just to the east

6:14of where we hunted and so that shut down gosh almost half the unit public land it was it's now shut down like it's still going so like it's it's putting more you know so there's I think there's some things like other things that play too um for this year especially how dry it was um and in the forest fire situation so there's there's always stuff like that that that gets factored in and so what caused all of that so so you have this large amount of hunters that were pretty much the the doors were open to Colorado right right and now you have a line that has started right so now okay every every unit is now a draw unit getting lined for Colorado is essentially what is going on and how bad have you heard the point creep get for Colorado like how many years out is archery tags in certain units yeah like there's a unit that I hunt um that I've hunted in the past as a draw

7:18I think when I started hunting it when I first moved out here for resident it was like two or three points to draw and now it's it's like six six for residents yeah for residents and from and from non-resident it went from like four to five points and now it's like it it's triple it's like 15 or 16 points I believe so I mean it's just kind of crazy but manas do yeah yeah yeah it's it really shot up during COVID you know it is yeah is the hunting that good at that at that you're in that unit in my opinion no I don't think it's worth 15 points for a non-resident yeah I mean you can shoot a decent bowl but I mean you still got to work for something over 300 yeah and uh so I don't know I'm not the person that's gonna sit on my points for a lifetime and then Burnham in one good unit yeah after 25 years that's just not I'd rather Burnham every three to six years

8:21something like that you know and try to get something decent you know I don't need a 400 inch bowl I don't need a three fit I mean I'd love to shoot something huge but um yeah you know I love the meat and I just if I get a decent bowl or something you know we'll go for that yeah absolutely absolutely that's crazy man um and so that's what happened and now it sounds like there's some additional changes coming for not next season but the season after that's shaking it all up again yeah yeah they're they're changing it so they're kind of going so for every like draw tag they're changing it to do 50% of the tags will be your normal preference point system so basically highest point wins you know and kind of shuffle it down but then they're taking 50 the other 50% of the tags and doing it as a basically awaited lottery draw system so if you let's say you have

9:21I'll say the tag takes like 10 points to get you know and you have three points you know um the you're you can be in that other 50% bracket and you have three tickets in the in the hamper okay you know so you you have a chance to draw that tag that's worth 10 points you know but you only have three and you can you can potentially draw that so that's yeah kind of the major major change there um they're doing different things with like the the allocations I think right now it's like 80 percent resident tags you know 80 percent of the tags go to residents 20 percent go to non-resident I think it's like 75 25 right now it's kind of like a standardization so they're kind of feeding more towards the the non-resident there which you know it's fine um the other thing is the preference point um process they are just charging a flat rate fee now I think it's $30 per species

10:24starting in 2028 as opposed to like okay you got to go in and buy your habitat stamp and then a small game license you know which is your qualifying license and then you got to buy each point for like ten bucks or whatever so yeah it's just like hey you want to buy a deer point you can spend $30 and just buy a deer point you don't have like Wyoming yeah right right exactly it's going to which which makes a lot of sense um I think I love the way they do their whole system Colorado's taking some notes it seems like yeah to simplify it and um you know I hopefully bring the cost down for people I mean yeah the the costs on everything I've gotten honestly out of you know as you know it's just everything's out of control it's just amazing I mean I think a a bowl you know tag or I think people are spending over 800 800 bucks now on an on-resident elk tag it's a lot of money you know and then when you factor in you know you got spend a hundred a couple hundred bucks on you know a small game and preference points and draw systems it's like I get it so

11:26yeah hopefully some of these changes will help yeah I mean I'm not a hundred percent sure like I got Wyoming right I got all these preference points for Wyoming and I just am like dude if when I draw for an elk tag which I'm going to because I have so many preference points like dude that that hunt's gonna be three thousand dollars without an outfitter without that's just me driving there by getting the tag and the license and I'm and then like have to explain that to my wife like yeah like how am I worth it for a big bowl damn yeah right you know worth it if I can even get to where they're at right right right hey man you're gonna if with that many points you'll you'll have a great aren't what it's you to do yeah I might have to I'm gonna have to call Adam Parr and be like hey dude meet me in Wyoming yeah I would yeah give me give me I you know I'm on this like couple of years cycle right now I kind of need like a couple of years heads up because I've already got you know you try to book out stuff yeah you know years in advance and plan plan stuff and you know schedules and what you're gonna do you can only do so much I

12:31usually try to do a couple trips a year you know one elk trip and then you know a white tail trip you know Midwest or whatever so yeah you know just give me some notice Dan and I'll be your pack meal that can't do I'll tell you what had a friend of mine uh forget to apply and get his preference points in Wyoming for I don't know how many years but if you go actually you lose him you lose him yeah he he went to go buy him and he saw he had zero and I think he had like eight at the time so he lost eight years worth of preference points for archery elk in up or for elk and I would puke oh yeah dude I just bought my I think I just bought my 13th wow my 13th elk preference point last last week dude you're smart you're smart I think I've only got like three in Wyoming yeah they've only started buying a couple years ago and I'm like why didn't I do that you know when I first moved out that yeah you can only do so much to you so that's a fact that's a

13:31fact yeah okay um so others in that is you know obviously the percentage of the the tags go to residents and other percentage goes to this do you think that the way Colorado doing it right now is complicated and that the future regulations are actually going to make it less complicated I think so I think it's going to help and and hopefully it it makes it feel like people have a chance to hunt some of these tags to you know with doing the the lottery kind of you know taking half those tags and making it to a lottery it's like I it's going to help people get more tags right and have a better experience um on top of that but yeah as far as like the application process it's not a like they couldn't you can't do you have to again it's going to more the Wyoming model where you have to choose whether you want to buy just a preference point now or you can

14:37you know uh apply for the tag so you have to make that choice which I think will help you know uncomplicate things because right now you could just like all I'm going to put in for a tag that I know I'm not going to get this 25 points I know I won't get it so second choice I'll put in for this other tag you know that maybe I'll draw and so you're kind of like sandbagging the system you know by trying to get both a preference point and your tag and and and again kind of raising the demand maybe artificially or or bring that up in a certain way so it's like you kind of you got to draw that line it's like okay you're going to either apply for this tag or you're just going to get a point and that either way is fine but it it'll help um you know standardize things and it won't complicate it as much for people yeah absolutely absolutely well that's kind of cool because I feel like Colorado's a state that everybody should enjoy hunting a couple times in their life if you're a serious hunter just if anything just for the beauty

15:40of that state and so oh man yeah you know what I mean so can't go wrong no absolutely not all right before we get into the next part of this conversation I do have to send a thank you to the sponsors of the western rookie podcast and we're going to start off with vortex optics um you've heard me talk before about how vortex the people that work there are just amazing group of people and the people are what make the brand the people are what make the products when you have good people you have good products and a good brand and if you're looking for a spotting scope range finders binoculars rifle scopes all the accessories that go along with all of their optics go check out vortex optics.com they have their VIP warranty basically you smash it you put it in a box you send it to them they either fix it or send you a brand new brand new optic whatever you broke and so go check that out next on vortex optics.com next on the list Montana Decoi Montana Decoi is a lightweight very

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17:51the uh your your hunting season out in Colorado because you've already sent me some pictures of some some meat in the freezer talk to me a little bit about how you approach your season every year couple of freezer queens so far yeah you know for me I unless I draw like a good like I was hoping to draw my my uh you know draw tag this year and and so with it kind of depends if I'm gonna because obviously for me as a resident I can just go pick up and over the counter archery tag and and go bob around to whatever over the counter unit yeah I want so depending on if I I draw do a draw tag or over the counter kind of a little different if if I'm spending the points and and waiting you know three to eight years to draw a tag then then I'm gonna put in a lot more time I'm gonna do a lot more scouting a lot more glassing I'm gonna get boots on the ground I'm gonna run trail cameras um but that's not the case for this year that'll that'll be next summer um this year

18:58so I've been really fortunate that my cousin um he has a property and uh we've been hunting that the last like three years four years and and we don't honestly hunt the private that much we use it more for the access to uh national forests and and VLM public land and you know it's definitely an advantage like it's not like it's it's definitely like well I only have to walk a quarter mile to hit the you know the the public fence line where somebody might have to go a mile and a half you know two miles and and and you know so it's it's definitely a game changer and a huge advantage but every elk I've shot since hunting there has been on the public land it hasn't been on ranch yeah um so it's uh it's still public land hunting I mean I'm still running in people um but uh but yeah so I you know the nice thing about when you you get a spot doesn't matter if it's public or private or whatever

20:01after you've hunted there for you know two three years you start to learn you know tendencies and and where they're betting and how they move and you know where to set up and um so I honestly didn't do really any scouting we do some glancing once we get there kind of just like look up into some shoots and stuff but you know there's not a lot of preparation as far as like scouting side um I do try to like August that I do try to work out a decent amount you know a couple two three times a week with lifting and um running or you know doing cardio as much as I can I never feel like I'm prepared and honestly like this year I kind of realized like I'm 37 now like it's just getting harder you know like it's getting harder to hike the mountains and like it puts it back into perspective of like man I honestly as much as I do I need to do like twice as much you know preparation it's just not as you know Dan it's not it's not easy when you're hunting that you know 910 11,000 feet right so I definitely um you know and I've got the gear figured out like

21:06honestly I kind of have it figured out Dan for once in my life I don't know you know so it's it's fun yeah yeah so when you say you got it figured out you got you got your gear figured out you got the whole process figured out to accomplish whatever goal it is you set yeah yeah I I think so I the biggest you know talking about broadheads and whatnot um I don't know if was has like a hybrid broadhead option or not but I've been using a hybrid broadhead but basically it's a mechanical you know that that opens to blade but it has like I'm a on the cross section you know 90 degrees 90 degrees to that yeah fixed blade it has a little for up to the expandable it has a little fixed blade yeah you know and honestly that's been the biggest my biggest gear change the last two years um it's been switching to a hybrid broadhead specifically for elk yeah now

22:07deer I will still just use the two blade and it's and it seems to be fine yeah but um the hybrid option for elk specifically their hide is so thick and they have such a different you know structure as far as like when that when that just that traditional two blade passes through yeah man it seems like that you just don't get the blood on elk um you know that you do with these these new hybrid ones I like because I love the hybrid because I love the that you know the it flies really accurate you know it penetrates seems like a penetrates really well um but you get that cross section of the fixed blade and it opens that hole and they bleed so much better and if you make a marginal shot it found that the recovery is definitely a lot better um so it's something that I've changed in the last couple of years and would recommend you know other people to do and I've noticed a huge difference in recovery and just blood yeah blood trailing that's good to know

23:09yeah it's crazy how tough elk are like yeah remember when we called that elk in for Ryan and his his broad head essentially just bounced off that yeah bounced off that animal I cannot believe that he was at own 20 yards yeah outside and just bounced off of him I was like what happened yeah full jaw man and uh big big bowl obviously too you know that changes as opposed to even like a smaller cow but yeah you know and that's where the fixed blade debate really comes in and in the you know I can definitely see the draw of a fixed blade you know especially at a three like a three you know a three blade or something like that you know especially so you want you want to open like a hole that can't be like closed up whereas like you you send like a two blade through that with elk what I've seen is it just that it will close up and you lose blood um relatively easy so yeah um definitely recommend that last night I don't know why I've

24:12this popped up last night I had a dream I was following a blood trail on a big on a big buck I don't know why I don't know why but hey signs to come I know right I hope it comes true I hope it comes true um so that was an elk right so talk to me a little bit about um like because you you filled the freezer on a on a cow you didn't go chase chase any bulls this year why yeah it's not that I don't chase bulls I just I'm just more of an opportunity hunter mm-hmm I mean for anybody that's came out and and hunted elk they just know that your opportunities even if you're hunting in a good area even if you're hunting in a draw unit even if you have access the private to to get into some of these more remote spots easily like it's just not easy to do like every year that I've killed even a cow elk with my bow I'm like holy shit I did it

25:13again like I made this happen like I put an arrow through an elk at 20 yards like it's just to get that opportunity is is really tough and I just love the meat so much I'm limited time you know I've got a family I got commitments I've got work just like anybody else right like so I can't necessarily dedicate like a full like month to just like you know I can't wait to be in that position here maybe in 15 years or whatever when uh kids are grown up or whatnot but you know just as far as getting out there it's like I'm taking the first like legal animal that I see honestly that's that changes for a draw unit like I'm not gonna shoot a cow like on a tag that I waited for you know 10 years right but I don't know about the kind of unit for me like it makes sense to like just get the meat right and and I love it so much but um yeah so it's it's just not easy uh this area especially like I like to hunt the first week of the season and your game plan kind of changes

26:14as you go throughout the season would get deeper into the rut or more hunting pressure or whatever so I like to hunt like unpressured animals and but with that like you don't get the bugling action you know you don't get that rutting um activity that you you normally would if you laid it waited till later in the season and so I'm hunting them a lot like white tails where I'll set up and meadows or trail crossings or you know anywhere that I think they're just gonna naturally get pinched down to or naturally crossed through and and I'm just playing the waiting game and hoping the win win doesn't switch so um like you know even that the day I shot my cat it was the second day but I had saw a bowl that that opening evening just at like 80 90 yards you came through a little cut called to him you know didn't want to answer uh didn't want to even come in you know and they're smart too if they don't see what they're looking for whatever that's where like a decoy comes in to play you know potentially I didn't have a decoy with me but um you know there's things like that but like

27:14the morning I shared the yeah the morning I think I shouted around noon actually I'd work I'd work up you know start lower and then work up towards like you know higher in the day I will I will say that this year because it was so dry in Colorado um this year we had a really dry summer and we had a hot summer and like no snow this past winter uh I found and it might you know this probably a correlation across a lot of different units where people are hunting but I found the elk or just higher this year they're not they're not from what I was seeing it seemed like they were in more of the darker timber this year as opposed to being down low and some of the aspens and things like that that's just what I've noticed yeah so that might be a change have you noticed that on consistently across all dry low snow pack years this episode of the sportsman's empire is brought to you by Nathan and sons makers of underbrush remineralizing gum I started keeping a

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29:19in summer combo like it's just like this is the warmest summer on record this was like the least snowpack on record so like this year is definitely like an anomaly so like I guess I haven't paid attention to it a whole lot we definitely had like drier summers um and I want to say yeah it seemed like you know wherever that grass is a little bit greener or there's going to be more feed and that typically is your higher elevation that's where where the elk are going to be yeah so where yeah and what are years there going to be a little bit more spread out yeah um definitely lower or more um you know you never know where they might they could be low they could be high yeah depending on but yeah it's just it's just it's just not easy overall and like so like I had I called in a couple different cow groups or whatever that morning or there was a bowl with one you know the wind the wind is you never know where they're going to come from yeah you know you think you're going to call call into this area and they're going to come this way and they'll just backdoor you I mean we had that happen on us they just come from the complete opposite direction

30:23that you actually think they're going to come so and then the window gets you um or the wind just switches and swirls I mean I had multiple things like that happen that same warning and you know again when you only have like five days to haunt and we're already on like day two or three it's like you know if a decent cow comes in I'm shooting and so I called I was sitting kind of like over a wallow kind of on the edge of like dark timber you know betting and you know the aspens where they're you know a little bit more light and maybe more feed in there and I called in just this lone cow and she came she came in honestly came like right to me and I was like five yards from around the ground and like it's just like she's looking at me I didn't have that grade of cover you know we talked about that before too it's like you kind of you kind of almost for bow hunting it's like natural to kind of like tuck yourself in to like really hide you know from an elk and then but then you kind of limit your shot opportunities and like you got to play that

31:25game like you can't be out like the wide open but like for elk like you can be a little bit more exposed as long as you got that like that cover or some some stuff because you want to have that shot opportunity right and if you just stay still and the wind doesn't get you like they're not like a white tail that's going to like pin you down right and like not move until you move or like bust you and then gone like that will kind of like look at you and like if you don't get the wind blown in their face they'll usually they can you can kind of hold them up or you know mew Adam if they start running they might stop then so that's what I did this one kind of a little bit maybe saw me didn't know it was going on obviously didn't see the cow that she thought she was coming to and then she kind of walked away and got to like 20 and I stopped her and she kind of turned just enough where I could side double longer a little bit quartering away and she ran like 80 yards so that was that was awesome awesome yeah you mentioned something about elevation and that the the elk were at a higher

32:26elevation of this year than normal what is that elevation is that 10 11 12 yeah yeah um for me in this area it seemed like the timber starts around 9000 you know it's just pretty typical for for any of Colorado so yeah I was I was seeing them like 9 to 9 5 it's kind of that sweet spot I was seeing them whereas like last year I'd see not that I wasn't seeing them lower it just it seemed like because it's been hotter it's been drier um and there's still like water sources in that area like little wallows and ponds and creeks and things like it just seems like they had everything they need in in that timber as opposed to they don't have everything they need once they go down lower yeah so um that's kind of kind of what I was looking at as far as elevation yeah okay all right and then obviously you have that private pieces access for for everybody

33:34anybody else who doesn't have like private access are there roads typically that get you to that elevation or do you have to like cut off at some point is there like a standard cutoff point and then you have to go well now I have to walk a thousand feet straight up right yeah yeah I mean there's there's certainly roads to get you any elevation um like for example where we hunt I mean people can go up above us on roads but then they have to walk you know maybe a half like a mile you know into where like we would we would hunt mile and a half I guess um but the problem is is they got to go down you know they go down yeah and hunt and so if you get one you got to hike back up and go you know that way which is as brutal with a hundred pounds on your pack uh so so just things to consider there but you know you can yeah there's I mean we ran into guys that

34:34got on our same elevation line and came from you know from just a side road you know that that came in that way so like you certainly can can work it every single which way or the other um you know I definitely from glassing after I shot my elk just like kind of glassing some areas like the areas that are obviously like tougher to get into and further off the road I was seeing more elk consistently like feeding out in there you know I would have to hike a couple miles to go get that and it's like you know if I was a little younger or whatever if there weren't elk where I'm at like yeah I'll go search in but like I don't again I don't need the biggest bowl I just want to meet you know that's my strategy but for somebody that wants wants that they certainly can do it you know you can do it however you want yeah so are the elk so it is I want to talk about guys going to Colorado they're leaving today and they're they're listening to this whenever this launches this is going to launch tomorrow actually on September 11th um but guys who are on their way or they're

35:38listening to this at camp or whatever the case is about about where the elk are if you were after if you were going yeah you had another tag in your pocket for elk archery elk and you were going up and you were going to specifically look for a bowl to hunt what would you be doing right now uh I'd definitely be throwing out some more bugles I I really like to go out in like before light and or after it gets dark and I've done it where I've just like dri- like if you don't know the area you don't have like basically a clue where to start like they're getting to the point now where they're going to start juggling a lot more a little more rod activity and so that honestly I found that that's just a good way to like try to get an idea you know go out after dark when you know everyone's done glassin or whatever if you can do a little bit of driving and you know just throughout some location bugles I mean there's no better way to kind of actually know there's

36:41something in there you know you know it's not another hunter bugling most likely you know you know you know it's not another hunter bugling back at you uh whereas you know you do that during the day you never know if it's going to be another hunter or whatnot but I don't know that's that's kind of where I would start and uh and again I would probably focus on some more of those higher elevation you know start higher this year than I normally would you know be in that timber uh try to find that stuff that's in it but also at the same time find that stuff that's potentially overlooked and that could be lower you know that that's a whole other fact that's why I like to hunt the first week is because I'm dealing with like natural movements right and and how they're maybe supposed to act I mean that changes quickly after first couple days like definitely the the opportunities and elk quite down quite a bit and they're just not as amped to to come into calls so um yeah it's I don't know that's I definitely focus a little bit higher try to find maybe some overlook spots

37:46and that could be lower yeah you know it could be a little scrub trees and BLM you know for all you know but um definitely I'm seeing uh higher elevation is is kind of kind of where it's at this year so for I'm just talking about white tails Midwest white tails right now uh there's some times where during the rut you can go into a pocket and you can find some you know it overlooked pieces of ground that don't look ideal from a satellite imagery or they don't look ideal from a road and then that's where the DRR at because that's that's where there's the least amount of pressure is that also the case with elk hunting would you say this time of year yeah yeah um it can be really anytime of year it just seems like it's more of a factor once once the pressures set in you know those animals do get pushed and they do elk are very sensitive to that and won't tolerate

38:48is much human interaction or you know getting get blown out so just something something to look at it's you never know what that what that could look like but you know uh I sometimes you just got to like hike in there and look yeah you know I said I've done that and I've done it more for rifle seasons where it's like man this could be a good little pocket like it just looks terrible but it's got a little piece of dark timber on a flat bench that's a nasty little hike up to or I got across this little river and then hike up you know like think about things that most people aren't going to do and you might have to take a half a day or something to go explore that and uh it's kind of a gamble but if it pays off it it can be pretty pretty good yeah so you never know for sure um outside of that um you know as far as September you know the September rut is concerned coming up um what other

39:52strategies would you suggest I like the idea of waiting till it gets dark driving up in down roads trying to be quiet call you know low basically locate them in the dark so that maybe the next day you can get up in there and and get with them but once you're in them and or you've you've located them you make the plan to you know park and hike in uh what what are the next steps that you would recommend to actually get close enough to a bowl to shoot it um yeah I think it's I think it's like obviously if you can if you can get some bugles to to hear that um you know that's that's obviously what you're trying to key in on um if you're just trying to go for a cow or whatever I'd be reading more sign hunting more like maybe meadows where they're just going to be naturally like feeding out into or you know maybe water holes or whatnot um and not that bulls won't visit that either but it all depends on what your your goal is but yeah if you're going to hunt a bull obviously you need

40:54to hunt them where they are and you need to get them to talk ideally um if you're not getting any response you know um just getting in an area with lots of sign you know fresh activity like a lot of especially if it's their first time they don't it's hard to kind of read that sign and know what's really fresh or not you know so what I'm looking for is like it smells like a barnyard you know if you can smell like where they're bedding or you know they took a piss at like it's going to smell like a cattle yard yeah and and and and sometimes that can be tough to differentiate because there are cattle on natural forests you know it's like you got to like try to find that but like you want to I try to hunt and find that really fresh sign so like you know their droppings have got to be like steamin or like looks like they were just dropped that morning or last night like you know some people might look at oh there's a lot of droppings but they could be a couple weeks old and they're they're not there anymore you know they've moved on they've gotten pressured or

41:57you know some arrange or their food is dried up or whatever and they're just not there but it looks like there's a lot of sign and tracks but they could be a week old and and that's obviously still they they've moved on you might be hunting a ghost woods and uh so you you gotta just keep moving until you can find that fresh sign or at least like bump one you know if you can I do that a lot with white tail hunting like I'll I'll just start walking and try to walk some ground and my goal is to like bump a decent buck or like bump deer like I want to know that they're there and so I'm just trying to like find them you know as as the first step so but yeah I mean calling setting up in a in a good area I like to just hunt like good trails you know if you can find a good trail yeah set up over it and and hopefully they come through naturally or with some calling it's gonna seem more natural too so I don't know it's not easy and obviously if you're not finding them at all don't be afraid to like pack up and move you know or drive to a

43:01different area 20 minutes away I mean the with archery in Colorado as a non-resident that's one of the changes going to draw you can't you have to pick your specific unit now you can't like oh well yeah we ran into that a lot you know where we hunted together it's like you know I've talked to a lot of people were they oh we hunted around you know west of Fort Collins for a week and then we weren't getting anything so we drove down here and now we're spending this week down here well that's not the case anymore so you can't like you know obviously drive like hours away but you know don't be afraid to move if you're not seeing that fresh sign if you're not here in the vehicles if you're not if you've been two days and you haven't seen one or bumped one like you know you got to do something and got to move I would also look you know key in on because it has been dry I've had a decent amount of success with hunting the back sides of private ranches especially if they have feed you know if they're like an irrigated you know alphalfa field

44:03or hay field I've I've gotten into a lot of elk by hiking in around the back side of of some of these ranches and where those elk feed you know they'll feed down in the morning and the evenings on these ranches on the private but they'll bet up on the public yeah you know so if you can catch them that could be a good midday strategy to you know try to catch them in their beds or you know midday kind of milling around when it's hot yeah but I definitely like that's if you're kind of striking out like some of these bigger public land you know national forest scenarios don't be afraid to look at on X and key in on some of these these ranches this private obviously do it legally and don't be a trust pass and but like if you can get in there around to the backside and and you know key in on some of those spots that's yeah especially for this year where it's dry or you know that feed seems to be more valuable yeah and I'll tell you this that's what probably easier

45:03said than done without having to you know potentially find you know look there's a pivot in this field and it's irrigated and all this stuff but in order to get to that border or that you know where that timber you're walking two three miles you know or whatever to walk around the private to get there or access it from you know the the complete opposite side where you have to go way up and then way back down again so but yeah that's a great that's that's a good that's a good strategy anything else that we need to talk about before we move on to your next successful hunt about yeah I don't know just I always struggle with this but when it comes down to the to the shot you know you if you can just take that extra second you know you got to play that through your head you know a lot of people miss a lot of people will hit I struggle with hitting that hitting that animal more center body like I don't know there's something to like you have such a big mass and you

46:07think you can just like kind of pull up and pull the trigger like you still need to really like aim concentrate and like it's really hard to do especially when that animal's coming in or you're just shaking or it's your first time or whatever but if you can like somehow just take really folk you know that's where it's like man I really probably need to develop something like the you know what's the guy the Joel Turner you know the the shot IQ thing I mean I think that stuff really holds holds some merit I mean I've shot think I've shot nine elk now and I still struggle with it and I think that's where like you're practicing and your shot process comes down because they just they throw you off man they're they they're not like a deer or a or a white tail there's just something about them that makes you lose your shit you know it's hard to keep composed and then you know there's there's just a lot everything has to go perfect and it's just like if you don't want to get to that point and screw up the shot you know that's it's the thing that makes

47:10you sick yeah so that's a fact yeah yeah well you also shot a Mildere a Mildere Doe this year so you definitely got some meat in the freezer now um is that an over the counter hunt so that one was actually just for the private you know okay you can't so it's really tough like that was my first doe tag I've ever driven drew for Colorado oh yeah like they just don't give those away um there's some units that you can hunt them you know over the counter or not over the counter but unit wide public or private but this was specifically a private land tag and I knew that I was like man this is gonna be meat hunt and that's all I want it for like I'm not trying to like make it seem like it was some badass like oh yeah it's a doe and there was like you know there's I saw so many doves this year I can understand why maybe they were you know want want to give more of those out this year because there was so many doves um so it was just one of those things where

48:15I was on the on the ranch and you know they're they're they're kind of like cattle honestly they're they're not very um I'm not very spooky you know Mildere in general they don't really run off like white tails or elk who like they'll kind of hang around right so it was it was one of those deals but crazy thing is um with this one so I process everything myself yeah I uh you know quartered up putting coolers you know I'll stage it whatever and then you know when I get home I'll process it and uh so I got the elk processed first everything's good there um this Mildere I started cutting into it and um I don't know if you've ever seen that I've never seen it before but started seeing these little white balls and I started like I you know use like AI right and I'm like the help are these things you know they look like little like not like the shape of a rice but more like color of a rice like kind of like more whitish yellow but look more like a

49:20uh I guess the best way to describe it is like a you know you put like a chia seed in a water or it's so you know it kind of soaks up and expands it's like that it's got a little jelly thing around like what the hell is this I started finding them and then I started finding more and more and I'm like what what is going on so I googled it and uh found out that it has like tapeworm larvae all throughout its meat yeah yeah so um I started doing what I was like is this safe to eat like I'm kind of grossed out you know uh not like ideal right and so I found that yeah you can kill it like you cook it all the way through or you freeze it you know for like sub-zero temperatures for like a week but like man it was like really tough to get my head wrapped around like there's a parasite in this meat yeah right like and obviously like there is that stuff in other meat like eat bear meat or whatever like it's in that too it's just like very microscopic right like where you can't see it but these are like physical like things and like just for example

50:24like it wasn't a big doe but like in the back just in the back leg alone I found like over 30 of them yeah and that's what like thinly slicing it to like try to like find them all right like and so I uh it's it's essentially dog food now for my girlfriend's dogs okay I just can I don't know I what would you do in that I don't know if I would eat it or not like even though it's like safe but I can't wrap my head around like eating like tapeworm larvae yeah so you know I mean if it was just me eating it and I read that you know it's like okay well if you freeze it for a week it's gonna kill it it's gonna be fine it's not nothing's gonna happen to it I would probably be okay with eating it because it would have to be frozen because I'm not gonna cook deer meat to well done ever you know you know what I mean like it then it wouldn't taste good so um so at that point I want at that point I wouldn't be handing it out to people you know or maybe you would but like

51:26that person that always begs you for me they don't really like right so use it to just kill somebody is that what you're saying yeah yeah exactly yeah exactly so I don't know dude I mean that's a tough question I don't think I would be feeding it to my kids but I probably would maybe you could grind it and that would kill it and freeze it I don't know then you then you're not seeing it per se right or you're trying to get into some kind of like deer stick or breath the sausage you know what I mean but yeah that would be I wonder if all the deer in that area have that because of just yeah the environment so yeah so what um what I found or my research it's pretty I feel like from what I was studying like it's it's fairly common in moose especially like in Alaska yeah stuff um especially like in the liver like the organs and things but um like this was obviously

52:28like all in the meat and everything so uh but what I've found that causes it is essentially like a predator right like coyote or wolves or bears they'll like you know poop on the ground and uh that those eggs or larvae you know get on the grass or the leaves that you know these deer are eating and then they'll they'll eat that and ingest it and then they become the carrier of it and then you know the the process repeats um from what I studied white tails don't get it like they're immune or it's like never been found um elk it's not very common but moose and deer um seem to be or uh moose and mule deer seem to be like uh it's a it's a possibility and where I shot this deer it was it was down kind of like in a creek and uh lower elevation and there are a ton of coyotes down there and uh like you just hear them every day down there so I think they run that creek you know

53:31looking for small game rabbits whatever they can find and so it kind of makes sense but I'd never come across that before it's just like it's something new for me I don't know I couldn't wrap my head around it to to and thankfully I've got other tags right like I'm gonna hunt Kansas uh later this fall I'm gonna I've got another mule deer private land rifle tag I've got a late season uh cow elk tag with the rifle so I've got other opportunities where I can be fairly picky and again the dogs are gonna love it like it's gonna be good high quality food for them and I got a lot of them out you know I was trying to thin it thin it down to like find them all but still you're never gonna get them all like I couldn't believe like how many I was finding yeah it was kind of kind of gross were you able to save any of it or was it equally distributed throughout the whole body it was equally distributed the only thing I didn't find it in was the tender lines okay but every other piece of meat back straps neck meat all rear rear legs front legs it was it was all in it

54:36and it wasn't if I would have found like a couple right and they were like right under this you know I was finding a lot of them at first like you cut the silver skin off and like oh you know there it is yeah yeah but these were like it didn't really matter like they were like in the deep in the center of the back strap or you know rearham like it's just yeah I couldn't I'd like to hear what other people have experienced but that was a first for me and I never I don't know maybe at some point I can wrap my head around it but yeah well if there's anybody listening to this uh who has experienced this leave a comment wherever you comment and um and share that your perspective with that because I think you're probably not the only person who has gone through that yeah yeah it was interesting I talked to Parks and Wildlife I called them and they're like yeah you can talk to a biologist I was like well I saw that other states reissue tags you know I've seen that before and so I was like maybe I can get a reissue tag but they

55:37wouldn't um they don't do that in Colorado it got you get us fines understandable uh but uh yeah it's it'd be interesting to know maybe the prevalence you know because this is my first time I think this is my fourth or fifth this is my fifth mule deer I've shot and um so you just wonder if like if it's gonna keep going yeah it'll be more prevalent you know or or maybe because it was such a uh wasn't cold this year we didn't get a lot of snow yeah maybe that had something to do with it and you know things didn't really get killed off like they they normally would so right right I don't know maybe it's something to do with that too but in our say yeah I'd love I'd love to read some of the comments yeah I'm sure well Adam par sounds like you have some more tags to fill this uh this upcoming season do you how many how many freezers do you have yeah I just got another one actually yeah um I think I have four freezers four free two chest freezers

56:38like the top of a refrigerator freezer and then I've got a full stand-up freezer now and uh so it's like man I got like when you like three years a couple of years ago I shot five animals you know like and so like you got a you got to really like work on your labeling and like or your store stuff and like I kind of got to do an inventory check here now and like you know I made I got stuff from two years ago I got to you know make sure uh and I'm very fortunate you know that I have so much opportunity and I am have been successful the last couple of years and uh so I recognize that but and I spread the love too you know I give I give a lot of me to weigh and you know friends and family and things like that too so I love to do that you know I love to introduce people to to wild game or or you know I like I like cutting up the heart too I'll eat the heart you know most people haven't done that and I'm like yeah try it you know it tastes it's like steak it's good you know some of the best protein you can get in the world you know

57:40when you eat the heart and stuff so yeah a lot a lot of freezers and a lot of time you know effort that goes into it like you sit down and it's like even if you do everything right like I shot that meal dear and like processed it very well took my time I didn't hit it in the guts like you know you get it into a cooler quickly and you know and then like even after you did everything right like it's spoiled with you know yeah tape or in live so it's like man it just goes to show like you got to take those opportunities you know when you can get them and and you just know everything just has to go perfect and every single scenario and every single step of the way in order to get it done and that's what makes it hard and but also rewarding at the same time and that's why we do it right you know it's a fact it's love it that's a fact well good luck the rest of the season hopefully you and the boy can get out and it have some pretty sweet father son moments and then also you can fill your freezer as well good vibes everybody be safe if

58:44you're going up to the mountains and you're some flat lander who's trying to explore on whether or not I can don't get lost is what I'm is what I'm getting at so good vibes everybody have safe travels and we'll talk to you next time