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1:03This is a global production. This is LVC from global leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferraria breakfast. More than two four minutes after seven Thursday, the 10th of September, it's the latest reform rumpers. Police confirmed they will launch and inquire into alleged overseas donations. Might you that story and ask. Is this the latest? Is it now starting to be actually hold below the waterline or a form UK? Staying with other political matters across the Atlantic to the US, President Donald Trump speaking in the early hours this morning, at a Republican midterm conference in Dallas. I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for $5,000. A cash for votes for how every American getting $5,000, it'll cost north of a trillion. They won't quite know where he's going to find the cash, but it's an interesting idea. From a current world leader to a former world leader or a world statesman,

2:03former Prime Minister Boris Johnson talking about AI. I love AI. Do you use AI? Absolutely. You use churchypti. You go churchypti. I love churchypti. I love it. churchypti is fantastic. No need to worry. The nation was a stewardship. Now the headline AI could kill us all in four years, warns an expert who works in, yes, you're ahead of me, AI. Get ready to start queuing. It's open to the public. French eyes are on London today as their beloved biotatistry goes on display at the British Museum. Ampuram reporting for LBC in Paris. Not maybe we'll know if you're really gonna play the bell like it. And which is the London borough that is looking to put license plates on those rental bikes? Artilio Laiton the show.

3:05And now it gets worse. The financial scandal around reform UK deepened last night as the police expanded their investigation to allegations with legal foreign donations. Confirming they would broaden their investigation here with the details. In the studio with me, LBC's political editor, Natasha Clark, Natasha. Morning. Which girl? Good morning, Nick. Yes, reform. I think it's fair to say now plunged into a fresh crisis. The party now facing an expanded police probe after some of their top aides were caught on camera appearing to try and get around overseas donation rules. They were filmed undercover by Channel 4 discussing polling, appearing to try and help their image. And under the law, Nick, you know that donations to UK political parties must be made by people or companies registered in the UK. It's that crucial thing that the met police are now looking at. And it's almost a week since that report was released ahead of the reform party conference. Here is a flavour of those aides discussing that polling and meeting potential donors.

4:12When I saw the third report on the front page of the time because it was really expensive to me, I thought, well, all right, these are people who know how to spend a lot of money. And that's what I want to see. What bang? That was a bang for the buck. And you heard Nigel Farage in some of those clips as well, Nick. At the time, the party described this as a hoax design to smear them. They insisted they had taken no quotes, dodgy money. He spoke with Nigel Farage last week who denies that he or his aides had done anything wrong. But he blamed pub chat for why he'd let the two aides go. Nothing to do with the party whatsoever. polling can be paid for by anybody provided his put into the public domain. But this wasn't put into the public domain. And then when it was a set you at the meal in Clapton, you said thank you, thank you. When it was appeared that more money was coming your way again from an overseas source, Mr Farage. No, no, no, no. The polling is there's no question of if the game is going to see over the polling. What so ever, right? None.

5:13I've got strong cases opinion on that. I was plenty of precedent to nothing. Whilst the poll benefited reform, it wasn't commissioned by reform. It hadn't been to reform. I suppose independent party did it. So that's nothing. That's nothing. The big guy said that, Mr Farage. But it was funded by Vio, a phone and overseas financial donor. All the funded by overseas people every single week, every single week. Did you know that it was being funded by an overseas financial? I had absolutely no idea. The first thing I saw was it on front page of the Times. They then told me at lunch that they'd funded it. I said, well, that's great. Boom. But Nick, it's those two days Dan, James and James Orr, who may now be implicated by this investigation. Of course, Nigel Farage too. We're told that he may face a police interview over this. The Met said last night, they have now assessed the information provided by that sting done by verbatim. They say that they are in similar in nature to offenses already under investigation by the Met's special inquiry team.

6:16And will now be part of that investigation. They say the allegations relate to potential offenses under the political parties, elections and referendums act. They're also looking to obtain more relevant footage related to the broadcast. Reform have said no money was exchanged. They did not commission the polls in question. But since the investigation, they've gone incredibly quiet last week. This was exactly what figures in the party that I was speaking to were worried was about to happen. They were concerned that it would be another headache for them. How it would impact some of it. It's exactly the kind of route they're trying to move on from. Now Nick, the party members we spoke to last week just didn't care at all about this story. They suggested this was part of an establishment bid to stop reform from winning power. But I think speaking to a swing voters, it's clear that these signs of messages appear to be dampening reforms. Paul leader, we should be clear, reform UK spokesman said the party denies any wrongdoing and will fully cooperate with the investigation. And they won't be commenting further while the investigation is underway. OBSC's political editor Natasha Clark reporting nine after seven.

7:17Let's bring the conversation Nick Tyrone. Nick is a journalist and author. He's written the rise of reform, which is to be released later this month. And let's give a little plug to that now if we can. Nick, what is the main thrust of your book when it's published later this month? The rise of reform. Morning to you. Morning. The sort of thrust of the book is I spent a long time, a year and a half out in the field, speaking to reform activists, candidates, local people. And I think one of the things I got out of it is how dug in there, how I think what lends itself to this story is I think reform just sort of dancing off into the midst of history will be more difficult than I think people imagine. But also one of the things I highlight in the book is some of the dysfunctionality at the top and how that could be a real problem for them. Essentially the thesis of the book is I think the political background that we the times that we live in lend themselves very heavily to reform doing very well the next general election.

8:21It's just a matter of they can get it out of their own way as it were. Why is it that the times in which we living lend itself to a possible good turnout for reform? Would you say Nick? I think one of the big things I highlight in the book is how disappointed people feel with both labor and the conservative party. I think labor have had a bit of a reprise with Burnham. Let's see how long that lasts. That could certainly fall apart. The Tories, the interesting thing is I went out canvassing with a lot of reform activists in what would have formerly been very much Tories heartlands and it's amazing how dead the conservative party feels in those kind of places still. So that's one thing that lends itself to reform is sort of if you like the perceived failure of the other parties. I think the other thing is immigration is going to continue to be a big story. It's difficult to see that going away. If the UK continues to have the sort of financial problems that it's having and it gets worse under Mr Burnham's leadership then I think that lends itself to reform the idea that we need something new, we need something fresh.

9:29Again, it's just a question of whether reform can present itself as a viable alternative. If your blood runs turquoise as in the reform color presumably you're going to think this is just them stitching us up. This is the establishment going after us because we're successful. How true do you think that sentiment is? Well, I mean it's interesting. I think it will be very true to reform people reform activists. I mean I think the interesting thing about what's happened is you've seen reform in a rea just sort of crisis after crisis over the last few months. And yet their polling position is still relatively strong when you look at it. They haven't crashed out like the Greens, for instance since Burnham came to office have really quite significantly crashed in terms of their polling position. Reform haven't of course they're not leading anymore. They're not way ahead. But there are a lot of polls have them neck and neck with labor which given its Burnham's honeymoon and what reform are going through at the moment and the sort of crises that they're facing.

10:30That tells you that there's something probably robust about their vote. There's no measure for this Nick but how ugly is these latest developments from yesterday and the involvement of the police? Really bad I would say. I think this is the biggest crisis that Nigel Farage has faced in his political career. If he gets out of this it will be quite impressive but I wouldn't bet against them. I think simply because I feel like we've been here many times before. How many times have the political press in Britain said, well that's the end of Mr Farage's political career? We thought that in 2010, we thought that in 2015, we thought that in 2019. And here he is, we're still talking about him. So can he get out of this? Yes, will he? What will be interesting to see? Finally and we don't want to compromise any police investigation but I have to speak as a journalist who's been around a few years. This seems pretty ugly as a whiff to it doesn't it Nick? It really does. I think the documentary, I mean I didn't think anything was shockable having spent a few and a half around reform and speaking to foreign people but genuinely seeing that dark and cheinah for was quite an eye opener.

11:37It was more than naivety of it. I can't believe that they were so willing to say those things to people and I think particularly given that some of the acting, let's say, from some of the people standing in for the donors is not particularly great. I think they should have smelled something a little off there and that they didn't is worrying I would say if you were a reform supporter. Can people buy the book already or they got to wait for publication day? Who's the publishers? Nick give us all the details. Certainly the publisher is swift press which is a great little independent, I shouldn't say little actually they're getting bigger and bigger independent publishing house. It will be available in September 24th but it's available through Amazon, Waterstones everywhere else for pre-sell as we speak. I think I think it goes well for you. Nick thanks for time this morning. Nick Tyrone has just written what he's probably very generally but has published the rise of reform and he's given you the details you need there. Okay, if the turquoise runs through your veins, come on this is now getting too ugly to bear isn't it?

12:41And of course if you've been a forage watcher for some time how do you take the latest developments will take your calls on that. In other news I'm still stranded so thousands of people stuck in various parts of the world because of that outage that glitch his Ryanair chief operating officer Neal at mine tell me yesterday how the disruption should never have happened. It is a critical piece of UK national infrastructure and it is criminal the fact that there is not a resilient backup system and in the world of business core Apple launches its new product. It can also take the shape of a computer and a picture frame and a clock so yeah it's an iPhone. Well it is but it is an iPhone duo more details to come. Best thing that's ever happened to you financially go easy sold by car on Carvana amazing offer really I hit 200 on the scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that I hit a button on Carvana.com once. Okay that's fair. It's like the lottery except you always win. Not like the lottery at all actually.

13:44Exactly inexplicably good. Offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up these may apply. Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 0356060973. 19 minutes after 7jab you'll be the first caller. Of course you could make the argument that this plays to the theory that they're out to get us that reform UK supporters. It's because we've overturned the Apple car. It's because of anti establishment. It's a stitch up and it may play to that. We'll take your views in a moment. So you help the editors last night putting their respective newspapers together. The daily mirror for Raj faces cop quiz on donors. The times for Raj faces met inquiry over reform donations. The I police set to interview for Raj and the Guardian police launching inquiry into alleged overseas donations. The other big story is one we're also going to be doing later in the show. The Daily Mail Burnham National Security can't come at the expense of social security. Yes, it's benefits not bullets. Kemi Vade not launching launching an attack into the prime minister on that and she Kemi Vade not will join us later in the show.

14:48To the LBC app there my colleagues are going with the for Raj story for Raj to be interviewed by police amid a reform donations investigation. And if you look on the websites the other big story which we're going to come to later in this hour is Donald Trump promising a 5,000 pound dividend. Brackets some people are claiming it's a bribe close brackets to all adult US citizens if Republicans win both houses of Congress. So it's five now what would appear to be possibly give this life because you're not allowed to buy voters people's votes. Is it everyone would get it? So even if you didn't even if your democrats would have that way even you didn't vote for Trump and he pulls this off you still get your five. It's going to cost north of a trillion no one seems to quite know where a trillion dollars we found for our fat where they will find it. But we'll get into that story in more detail later in the show 721 Jacks in Swindon Jack is it a stitch up or is there something that really does bear full police scrutiny. Good morning. Good morning to you. Yeah I was thinking of obviously joining reform and service but now after thing what's happened in the way women have been treated on TV in front of my eyes I have a sister.

15:53But I believe in some of their policies like you know you have a sister I mean I'm delighted. Yeah so what I saw on TV at the function where that woman was being grabbed by the mouth and pulled down. Sorry I got it now. Yeah. It's really put me off there just that to the loan but he's not answering any of the questions that are given to him like most politicians words he's ducking and diving. I like some of the his rules when it comes to tightening the borders and things but how can he say we're going to protect our own women when his own people who I was going to join are attacking women in our own country our own English people. Those were undoubtedly ugly scenes has that then pretty much closed the book on the idea of you signing up to reform. Yes it has and my friend who was going to join reform is not going to now because he said it's absolutely disgusting way our own people and we're not looking after our own people and attacking our people and at the same time when I saw last night.

16:54There was some kind of joined coalition with Tommy Robinson on channel four the documentary. Fred I didn't see that last night. Yeah well it was on last night and it was absolutely this man is riddled with so much things going on how can I put my trust and membership in this person. Jack thanks for that call we'll take more reactions from the emails and the text this comes in from Andrew James has no one learn anything from Trump. The supporters of reform won't care all it does is increase their support as it's are these are the words I use as it's seen as an establishment which hunt. Matt and Sid cut why are the media obsessed with this clown you sit there letting him lie to you then you ask if we're thick enough to believe him all right we'll come to other matters in a more of your reaction let's come to other matters now which is I'm afraid there are still problems for thousands after that glitch regarding that's the system that of course provides air traffic control and allows pave planes in and hopefully safely to land. Angry passengers at Heathrow told of their day from hell yesterday the chaos rumbles on 300 flights for cancer across the UK that was yesterday remember the day before it was either side of 1000 and tens of thousands were inconvenience of course the day before and they will still be playing catch up possibly possibly through to the weekend.

18:09Let's turn to Mark crystal now Mark spent Tuesday night in Edinburgh airport and joins me now to explain his Odyssey around the United Kingdom thanks very much for coming on if I may call you Mark let's start at the very beginning as they say where were you trying to get from and to good morning sir. Yeah good morning I was trying to get from York's JFK to Heathrow about seven hour flight and about an hour and a half before we landed in Heathrow the captain came on and said we're being diverted due to the traffic control issues in London he tried to put the plane down in Dublin and they refused and Edinburgh had accepted us and we were diverting there and then he. He got on a few minutes later and said will will get on the ground will refuel and then we'll find a plan to get get you all down to London but. Once we got on the ground the plans changed and they decided that they would. Deplan us all make us go through immigration and customs and said you know go out the other side and and meet us want to effectively exit to the airport and we'll regroup and see what's going on broadly speaking what sort of time was this mark on truth.

19:21So we eventually landed a bit after 8 p.m. and by the time we got through the the board of control and picked up our bags it was about. It was about 10 p.m. just before and I actually got on on the phone with customer service who told me that there was a plane that they would send the next day at 3 p.m. Right to that's up but then they interrupted that call and said no change of plans someone from the airport's going to come and talk to you and. Someone from the from Edinburgh airport was sent over to about 150 others just standing there waiting figuring out what's going on and they said yeah the airline has cut you loose and you've got to figure your own way. And this airline again did you say it was jet blue. I was on jet blue but there were other flights there ahead of us on united and other airlines and the exact same thing happened to them so about 500 of us that were. It was a good strategy at the airport with and they said yeah we're offering no no further assistance in need to find your own way home and so there were young mothers with you know infant children there were people in the 80s and 90s that were you know struggling to walk around there were teenagers there were a lot of people had never been to the UK before and suddenly 420 miles from.

20:35Nation and not sure you know that you know that you know about the train system in the UK that had to get around they have no idea what to do at 10 o'clock at night in Edinburgh. Of course it and welcome to the United Kingdom so you think you're British born from the south of you so what did you do. Well you know I'm a former retail executive e-commerce on a I company CEO can be called profit mind and which is a bit ironic in this case from a name perspective but. What's your company called again I'm afraid the line clip profit profit mind yeah so we focus on helping retailers you know make more money basically and. The number one thing to make more money is as a company is customer satisfaction and obviously the airlines could care less about that so as a fair and open market they can do whatever they like and so yeah I quickly opened up a laptop and. And jumped on trying to get a hotel room actually in in Edinburgh but we were the last flight in I think I was using AI agents on my laptop to search everywhere looking for yeah and rooms there was nothing available that I told.

21:40The cabin crew the nearest hotel they could find was an hour and a half drive away and so they were off to that and. The rest of us is just nothing I was even clicking on rooms for over a thousand pounds a night trying to get in any way this must be good I tell you how you're going on well I don't know the business. I was pretty desperate at that point that I was clicking on them and they were just they were all booked up I even looked at Airbnb and VRBO nothing available that night I saw some passengers band together. To rent cars to make the thing what eight hour drive from Edinburgh down to London oh my goodness so what did you do where did you spend you I'm not your wife but where did you spend you spend Tuesday night I spent the night on the floor of Edinburgh airport which I. If you've been to it's it's there's no seating you know say's breeze cost a coffee and another coffee shop stayed open all night thankfully so that. Some people to sit but and then I was able to get a train ticket down to Kings Cross at 5 30 yesterday morning and.

22:43Right on that meeting's in London yesterday you know you're here all of the I'm based in the US I have. Oh my god when do you need to get back well fortunately I'm I'm flying back next week hopefully they'll I'll honor that flight but I certainly learned that you know the the airlines with any. Any hiccup can basically drop you off anywhere in the world and I'm afraid for yourself for let you go you mentioned you're in a I'm going to ask you about a story one of the newspapers today and. The UK the daily telegraph I'm sure you know it all you remember AI could kill us all in four years warns an expert who's in the AI you I appreciate and just as you happen to mention the fact you're in there what level of concern do you have about the advance of AI. You know I'm as an AI CEO I'm very excited about what this is going to do it's the next industrial revolution I think it's going to create more good for the world and it then a create harm but I do think. In the short term there are a lot of things we need to navigate and I think there's short term worries that we do need to focus on and I think you know politicians and others are quite a long way behind in this.

23:51And the biggest short term worry in a sentence mark and then I will let you go what I'd say more economic I think there's going to be a significant shift in employment and where jobs actually exist and types of qualifications you need to be successful so I worry I've got you know teenage 20 year old kids who are worried about what they're going to do 10 years from now. Let me show you when your kids get in the 30s you still worry about the market anyway thanks very much Mark crystal happy landings as when you try and go back stateside if we're talking I'd David I'll come to your call on the form after the news I do have you know but if we're talking about politicians and AI as Mark was then I love AI. Do you use AI absolutely use tertiary to you know to to be I love to to be I love it to to be is is frankly fantastic. And while passengers may be grounded I'm afraid the oil prices up up and away. Oil prices are rising today after us forces destroyed multiple Iranian tankers near carg island. Nick Ferrari and breakfast on LBC call 0345 6060 973.

24:58I'd like to say David you've been able to hang on to you will be the next caller concerning for but let's check it on the world of business as we always do around this time of the morning Ed Sheep at city and Christian may joins me now and react if you would to this story. Oil prices are rising today after us forces destroyed multiple Iranian tankers near carg island. And that's from Fox News what are they risen to Christian good morning. Want to you Nick yeah just a day after the governor of the Bank of England Andrew Bailey warned that the risks on inflation were in his words to the upside. And after we discussed yesterday the fact that oil prices were flirting with that hundred dollar a barrel price point it has come to pass the price of a barrel of Brent crude which is the international benchmark. Let up by more than 3% to a peak yesterday of $101 that follows us attacks on those tankers that we just heard about and indeed strikes on cities in Saudi Arabia by the who fee rebels who are backed by Iran so there's no sugarcoting it this conflict is still pretty hot the consequences in the oil market are still very painful you have to remember that before Donald Trump launched this war against Iran oil prices were around 60 dollars so this is not the sort of thing that will go unnoticed and as we were discussing this war at the height of it throughout March and April all the analysts said that the real worry is whether or not oil prices are rising.

26:25Whether or not oil prices remain elevated after the summer well here we are and there they are it's also worth noting that the price of gas has increased dramatically that something to which the UK is especially vulnerable and all of this with the inevitable inflationary impacts I'm afraid to say Nick have led to further increases in government borrowing costs as investors worry about the impact of inflation on those loans. Let's take to the front page of your paper secondly the researcher who quits with a warning on human extinction more details please Christian. This is quite dramatic and I'm not sure this is quite dramatic got no dramatic in your world Mr. May. Yeah in my newsroom this this this hits quite dramatic on our dramatic scale we're talking about anthropic which is up there with open AI is one of the world's biggest and leading advanced AI companies. Yesterday one of its lead researchers quits and he posted a very article in which he said he did say because he considers these large AI companies to be gambling with our lives.

27:31He accused these terms of acting irresponsibly instead do not underestimate the power of the technology that they are developing these systems will soon be superhuman they could hack anything revolutionize any field overnight and acquire real power for themselves. He referred to the fact that it's understood within these companies that there is a slightly greater than 10% chance that advanced AI could lead to the wiping out of humanity. Now if that wasn't extraordinary enough one of his colleagues who remains at the company followed up on that post and said Jacob is quite correct here we do believe they I could kill all humans but we're working very hard to try to get this rise. Now some people I've spoken to in the sector say this is just marketing guff this is them puffing themselves up before they take to the stock market but that I think would be quite a bold strategy you sit down with someone and say what I need you to do is I need you to quit and say that we're deadly dangerous and that's going to do wonders for our future share price. So I'm not sure I buy that I think that within the industry there is a debate some people say this is overblown hyperbolic nonsense and other people including people whose job it is to work at these companies and think about this say it really is very dangerous indeed.

28:42If you've got to spare £1,999 in your bet pocket what might you buy? You could buy a phone that looks like a book we're talking about the new launch of Apple's latest product and that was the first launch ever seen by the new boss John Turner so it's normally for years and years it's been iconic site of Tim Cook on stage holding the new iPhone or whatever it is and he's exited stage left and his successor who worked in the engineering site of Apple for a long time has unveiled. The book style folding iPhone dubbed the duo it's quite large and but they say it's still effectively a phone you can hold in your hands or be it when you can open up double the size of the screen with a starting price of about one and a half thousand pounds it's it's a bit of a gamble I know one person in my life who has a folding phone and I consider it to be a little bit eccentric maybe I'm just behind the curve but there you go it's the future. I know the question I want to ask but I better not because I don't know who the recipient of that folding phone is so I'm going to leave it there Christian measure in chief of city and thank you take us to 738 David and Horsham David tell me about your views of reform not least in the night of what would appear to be a non-going police inquiry good morning.

29:53Good morning Nick yeah I'm long time Tory voter 40 years of Tory the first person I ever voted for was my but facture back in 79. I have late like a lot of people become solution for the Tories would never consider voting later and I've been a reformer supporter for the last 12 18 months and I fully intended to vote for them but I am concerned about the apparent governance of the party and that and how that reflects on their ability to govern the country. It's all political parties have financial scandals labor have had Tory have had them and but I but at the moment they seem to be in the firing line I do think there is an element of some kind of conspiracy from the establishment to try and destroy or at least dent their appeal to the voter by constantly beating up stuff but the reality is these things did happen and it's difficult to avoid that and it is a little concerning.

30:54I thought I was voting or would be voting for someone who was off for something different but it's beginning to look at this. What attracted you what were the policies or policy that attracted you to reform UK David. It's the primary it's a move further to the right clearly from me the economic policies the reduction in the benefits bill the focus on the I mean I work for myself I have my own business I'm actually in the right. I'm not stranded as well. No I was here a week I want you to fly home until free but the last time we spoke Nick I was on a plane landing when the alert went off do you remember and I said the alert went off at 300 feet. I remember you telling me that story and you know what I was flying recently and that story came back to my mind what we were about I don't know 500 feet out of NICE and I thought what were people do now the last. Yeah well that was that was me yeah so but that as far as reform is concerned I'm still the moment minded to vote for reform because I suppose you know I'm again immigration policy I believe we should be drawn from any international treaty which prevents our judges from making decisions which favor this country I believe in firmer stronger borders.

32:08I will say Kemi has begun to make you look again at the Tories but I'm still not convinced. All right Kemi Bay not joins us in the last hour of the show David happy landings when you come home Lisa's reform is the only party who will deal with migrants taking over our country I don't care what they do Charles as I voted reform yes I think the establishment is out to get for Raj there's outstanding donations to labor dating back to Keir Starmer's days yes investigate but investigate them all Jenny you'll be the next caller on that in a moment but let's go to other politicians and other political matters and we go to the United States President Trump speaking the early hours of this morning our time at the first Republican midterm conference in Dallas making this promise to Americans if the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States at both of them because of our economic tremendous economic success like in history we've never had anything like what's happening but because of our tremendous strength and success economically I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for five thousand dollars

33:14Well, that's a trillion more than a trillion dollars is just spent by the way I should probably also tell you he wants to rename the state of for moves the Trump straight but let's stay with this dividend who dare say the word bribe and bring up the conversation Dr Katie Prushinsky who's an independent specialist in US politics and you'd be aware doctor in the UK this is absolutely no go verboten don't even think about it what's the story in the US good morning good morning quite similar although you should sort of note the fact that he referred to it as a dividend so he's trying to frame it almost as if US citizens are shareholders in their government and they would get paid a dividend as a shareholder might get paid a dividend after a bumper year for a company now there are several problems with that first of all the issue is that Trump as president cannot unilaterally distribute government funds he has to have an active congress supporting that that would be highly unlike the government

34:14and it's not only to go through even if Republicans retained control we've heard very little support coming up in the immediate aftermath of that speech from Republicans and the reason for that is because of the cost that you rightly paid at about a trillion dollars that it would add to the national debt and no Republican budget hawk is going to sign off on that while living costs are the way they are while the debt is the way that it is so there's the cost of it there's the fact that he doesn't have presidential authority for it but also by making a contingent on Republican success at the elections having to retain control of the Senate and the House of Representatives in order to make it work makes it appear very much indeed like a bribe which would be illegal and lastly the chances of the Republicans keeping control of both houses if I move you a little bit out of your sphere of expertise but as somebody watches US politics what are his chances well at the moment if you're paying attention to any of the polling that is coming out of the states he personally is under water in the polls he's he's his disapproval rating is it an all time high

35:18Republicans are now distancing themselves slightly from him you'll note that very prominent Republicans those in swing states state away from this midterm convention they're trying to run local races to make local points to citizens in their own spaces because they're not convinced that Trump is an asset to them in the ballot at the moment I would say they're fighting an uphill battle to retain control of both the House and the Senate but these things are just a snapshot in time it's still two months till November we don't quite know but pay attention to what's happening in Iran and the cost of living in America because that will be the deciding factor for most Americans at this election Dr. Avonjoyed our conversation our sense will talk again ahead of those midterms have yourself a good day thank you Dr. Katie Prushinsky is an independent political specialist in the US Jen is in Abingdon Jenny your view of reform UK here in the UK good morning or good morning now I'm really nervous please tell that you make me feel terrible now please be a ease you're just talking to a friend okay okay right I used to be a conservative

36:19but when the market's actually great fan the market's actually you know most most of it makes you've got a few things wrong but broadly she was in the right area I think yes I definitely think so anyway what happened over the years you know conservative party it seems to change it went well lib them and conservative you know had two factions in the party when the form came along I've joined them almost straight away and yeah I just feel very very proud of the party now that we get this country back on track they all seem to be on the same page they haven't got like what is it that they say that you think would get the country back on track well obviously the immigration thing there's the only one thing that will actually do the job but there's other things as well I mean we went to the conference on soccer that we can and it was really fantastic gave you hope right and because I thought it might be a bit you know afterwards the problems they were having but what about the way that some people have said the way some of those protestors

37:19retreated now you could make the argument well don't go and interrupt the leader speech do it outside and stand with placards or banners but it was quite aggressive the way they were treated Jenny yeah we couldn't see what happened but I know people get I suppose angry don't they think I mean it was like Richard time I saw Nigel for a year they were just people in the audience I believe that kind of a set it and also the security people because they do have a bit of things to cope with and lastly what would appear to well no I can say it is a police inquiry which will add to other inquiries not all police inquiries into either Nigel forage or reforming it that doesn't don't you're in choosing us and for the party no no because I mean I don't know if this is true but I remember something about the Cayman Islands the Labour Party taking donations yes yes company in the Cayman Islands and they dealt in arms sales and social fuels or something whether that's true or not I can't I don't know but you're right every I was a every but most every party have had some kind of scandal you're absolutely right Jenny nothing to be nervous about you

38:21fantastic I look forward to speaking with you again have yourself a good day up there in Oxfordshire coming up after the news how you feeling today have you got any infection spot of acne migraine will you going to hear from the government to a minister how it will be easier to get quicker treatment at the pharmacies and Dr Layla Handbeck is chief executive of the independent pharmacies association pharmacies at the moment are on the life support and this has been going on for years this this underfunding plus benefits or bullets Prime Minister Andy Burnham in the House of Commons yesterday we do everything to support our national security but it can't come at the expense of social security so social security is more important than national security we'll debate that in the next hour and later in the show considering that came a bad enough will give us her views too and I just want to ask more eight is the time back to the reform ramp us in a moment but to other matters and how you finish today

39:22if you're not as can say you've got a migraine I can count the number of migraines I had fortunately on the fingers of one hand and they are absolutely devastating one of them was when I was doing a levels and the other one was when there was a bit of pressure at work they just completely floor you other conditions are going to be helped by new government initiative include scabies acne ear infections and here with more details I hope a fully healthy Dame Diana Johnson who's the public health and patient safety minister chuckling on the end of the line I trust you are in robust health Dame Diana I mean very robust health thank you for asking to hear right what is it you and your colleagues are putting forward today so we're extending the pharmacy first program which has been around for a little while but has been limited in the conditions that pharmacists can prescribe for and we're adding new conditions and you've just highlighted one me grains being one and the migraine trust and national charity have come out and said this is really positive for people to be able to go to their local pharmacy get the help they need get a prescription local you know of much more accessible than having to wait to see a GP or end up in A&E

40:29so this is a win win and also very importantly it uses the skills the professionalism of the pharmacist and I think they very much want to do that and they've embraced pharmacy first we've seen 14,000 at 14 million consultations that pharmacists have undertaken since it was introduced so this is a real win win and we run through the conditions so it's at me migraine scabies here infections and so is it pronounced renatus or rhinatus which is it right but it's it's hay fever isn't it it's severe hay fever in children we're talking about I see okay and then the pharmacy can give all the necessary medication to cover that yes they're independent prescribers the pharmacist who will be able to prescribe for those conditions and what sort of pressure will this alleviate either at surgeries or A&E's or hospitals can we have any idea of the numbers name Diana well we think about two to three million consultations for this new group of individuals that will come forward with these conditions

41:29for example what I'm told is with ear complaints the outer ear known I think more colloquially as swimmer's ear there's about 77,000 hospital admissions around ear infections so if you if you look at that but over the course of the pharmacy first we've had 14 million consultations that have taken place so I think this is a really positive way of trying to make sure people can get quick advice, guidance and prescriptions without having to wait well the best of luck with that of course this comes and we talk about using the pressure I'm sure you saw the report yesterday that last year 1.7 million people waited more than 12 hours for for A&E treatment and half a million waited 24 hours which obviously in some instances sadly increases their risk of death you're not turning the waiting list figures around are you? look I'm not going to pretend that it's easy to change what we inherited but what I can say to you is the investments going in waiting lists particularly are coming down

42:36we've got more GPs no and A&E I know there are some figures that will be coming out later this morning that you will be able to have a look at and see where we are what time is that minister? I think it's 9.30 I'm not allowed to speak about them so you have to wait but back to my point okay so yes I you're right and I have read in recent months but those figures are great elsewhere but A&E 24 hours waiting for treatment I have to put it you that's not acceptable no it's not I absolutely agree with you it's not acceptable and that's why we're taking measures like the one today to try and make sure that we get help to people early on if they've got a problem as we've gone through some of these conditions that they get the prescription early on which doesn't mean they're left waiting and then perhaps end up in A&E much much further down the road so so we've got a range of things we want to do the the use of pharmacy first is one of them investing in GPs and obviously we've got to get those weights down in A&E and we're speaking again today NHS patients are being forced to wait months for care because NHS health boards are introducing minimum waiting times to treatment so says analysis by the British medical journal

43:46again this speaks to the challenge that you and your colleagues are facing when do you think you can turn the corner on this? Can I just say on that though that that that really concerns me because we have an 18 week target for people to get treatment but what we also have is the clinicians, the doctors making decisions about when a person should get that treatment so I am concerned to hear that that article and that story that you've just referred to because that that is not what is supposed to happen in the NHS it's around clinical decision making for when people receive treatment there should be not a minimum floor of how long you have to wait What action will you be taking down the store has been published in the papers? Well the department will be looking at that absolutely with a view too. Well we want to make sure that it's understood that people should receive treatment based on clinical need and clinical decision making that's the basis of the NHS All right a story you might not be aware of because this is an LBC exclusive Zubia Ahmed someone I'm sure you know the former health minister has called for a forensic review of the NHS deal with Palantir

44:50that's worth £330 million after we found backlogs rose at half the trust using technology to cut waiting lists how comfortable are you with this Palantir deal and that it doesn't appear to be working across the board? Well my understanding is that there is a review of the NHS relationship with Palantir obviously the person you referred to is a former health minister now on the back benches but is a very esteemed surgeon I think up in Glasgow So obviously we want to listen to what he has to say but as I understand it there is a review that will be undertaken And lastly concerning our health you might have seen the report that someone has quit a major AI firm and he said he thinks in time AI could kill humankind could kill human How often do you use you use AI minister? I use it a little bit but I know in the health field AI could have remarkable advantages for treatment and care of patients

45:50But I'm also conscious and I saw that story last night about that we could all be wiped out So clearly we have to both nationally and internationally get a grip of this and have regulation And I think it's really important that we've got an AI minister in the cabinet because we recognise this is now something we have to deal with It's very different from five or ten years ago when this wasn't on the agenda at all now it's right at the top of the agenda Great for a few time this morning thank you increasing the work that our great pharmacist can do is explained by Dame Diana Johnson Public Health and patient safety minister 2 to 8 the time Let's get one more calling on reform Johnson's stoke on Trent and is it an establishment star stitch up would you say good morning? Well my question is Nick is why did they just do reform if they wanted to balance and really check these parties out Why didn't do they why didn't do all the parties? Respect respectfully I don't think Kimmy Bay not said David or secure star more Andy Burnham would have been that naive

46:51And the people around them would never have let them through John Well if they've done that they could have said they didn't do it they they turned my sense will be these are incredibly expensive operations for newsrooms to mount or news organisations to mount They would have had a sniff of something and that's why they moved in John Well it's just again inside the public perceive it if you just see one people saying this is the country reform Now if they had said we tried that and we got no way it would have been better wouldn't it Has it are you a reform supporter has it entered your support for the party? I'm not a reform supporter I just like it fair and balanced view on everything Alright so I hear what you say thank you I would say again I don't know in the sense but I do know from having launched and all sorts of enquiries down the years You normally get the sense of something you know knocking on a door that's a little bit open Rather than one you think that's potted in your face but grateful for your input the music means we must move on And should it be bullets or should it be benefits Andy Burnham and Kimmy Bay not yesterday We do everything to support our national security but it can't come at the expense of social security

47:57I cannot believe he would actually see that Kimmy Bay not will join me later in the show and as the Bayer tapestry opens to the public As the Bayer tapestry opens to the public in London what influence on modern Britain did the normans have I'm LBC's Henry Riley looking at the lasting cultural, political and economic impact Those stories and more follow the 8th of cotton news on LBC This is LBC from Global leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrarian breakfast Good morning it's Thursday September the 10th and as you wake up at four minutes after 8 Which is more important national security or social security The idea with the world becoming an increasingly hostile place we have a Prime Minister Who says that national security can't come at the expense of our benefit system I'll give you the two budgets and ask you which is more important Plus in other news which is the London Barra that is going to enforce the most rental bicycles have some kind of license plate

48:59This is addressed by former government minister Michael now Lord Goh speaking earlier this year The response I could to seem to feel that they have our superior beings They are the nights of the road as it were The story I was just discussing with the health minister the scandal involving Palantir Dr Zubeach Med was a health minister until he stepped down some months ago and he told LBC Let's companies like Palantir and other companies where we spend a lot of money NHS money We do need to be very very forensic and indeed muscular about making sure we're getting value for money And then later in the show As the Bayer tapestry opens to the public in London what influence on modern Britain did the Normans have? I'm LBC's Henry Riley looking at the lasting cultural, political and economic impact

50:18Social security an extraordinary round I would suggest in the House of Commons yesterday Now last week Conservative party to Kimmy Bay not propose the government cut welfare spending to fund defence We spend more servicing our debt than we do on defence almost double We need the plan to hit 3% on defence now but the armed forces won't know what they'll be getting until next July's spending review There is a simple answer to this cut welfare spending and invest that money in our defence This was picked up by Prime Minister Andy Burnham in a response to those plans during PMQs I don't think myself that taking £4 billion out of housing benefit is going to get the right consensus around this issue Because that would create levels of homelessness in this country, Mr Speaker, that we wouldn't have seen before Hundreds of thousands of children in temporary accommodation

51:21Can I say to the right hon. Lady? Yes, we do everything to support our national security But it can't come at the expense of social security Having strong national security also depends upon having resilience in our communities This side of the House will not be forced to choose between the two And there you have it, national security cannot come at the expense of social security As he painted this extraordinary dystopian, de-cension pitch of homelessness Why does the left always do that? Why is it always... If we start spending on tanks and bullets, children will not have a home, people will be sleeping in the streets Why do they always do that? Enough of my response, here's Kenny Baidnock from whom you will hear, by the way, later in the show Unbelievable, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister would say that he is clearly unwilling We need to fund our defence, not spend all of our money on welfare

52:21I cannot believe that he would actually say that He is clearly unwilling, but Mr Speaker, there are ways to do this, he is not unable The Prime Minister is talking about spending more on welfare The benefits bill is set to rise by £32 billion on him The benefits bill is set to rise by £32 billion, that's not all of it, that's the rise That money could be going on defence The Prime Minister wouldn't approve the Rosebank oilfield, 1.4 billion pounds of tax revenue That could be going on defence Let's turn to Debye's L which was the Walsh Conservative MP and he had served as Defence Minister And shared the Defence Select Committee and he joins me now Debye's, you must have been gnashing or grinding your teeth with rage if you heard or saw that yesterday How would you have challenged Andy Burnham over what he said? Good morning to you Yes, good morning, I mean there's so much to unpick here I mean, first and pleased to see Defence and Security is increasingly debated in Parliament But given the slide in global security, coupled with the fast-changing character of conflict

53:24We don't want debates, we need urgent investment to keep our nation safe Sorry to say this, but the parallels with 1937 and today are real Our global order is being abandoned, America is retreating, ever more isolationist and unreliable And new authoritarian alliances, China and Russia particularly are forming already finding ways to harm us in the grey zone And yet we seem to be in denial Andy Burnham's commitment to increase defence spending by 2035 to 3.5% That's almost a decade away and it reflects a poor understanding of firstly where our world's going The threats that are coming over the hill and actually the sad and dated condition of our own defence is The rest of Europe is upgrading its defence posture now Not only modernising the EU, militaries to prepare for autonomous, semi-autonomous warfare But even looking at reintroducing a form of national service to strengthen homeland resilience

54:27Yeah, our Prime Minister, our Prime Minister is more interested in protecting the welfare budget Suggesting he doesn't understand the growing threats to our economy and this is the key point If our economy is not protected, there's less money for welfare Look what happened to the land job at Jagu, that was attacked at the cyber attack and that company is now in dire straits Look what happened yesterday's airports, but no aid defence in the UK as well There are so many aspects that we need to improve Yet we have a Prime Minister unwilling to recognise the threats that are coming over the hill and put the money where it counts And how do you respond to what I would suggest is that rather drierly predictable mantra you hear from the left That if we invest in this children will go without homes, people will be turfed out on the streets Tobias The answer to that is, just wait until we get attacked Look what happened in Leipzig only a few days ago with a Russia drone attack We have no aid defence and the fact that we're quite rightly supporting Ukraine means that we're in the crosshairs of Putin and Moscow too

55:29So how is it to, you know, snag those undersea cables for example Another cyber attack that would absolutely damage our economy And I make the point again that if there's no money in the Treasury How are you going to pay for all these welfare commitments and so forth Andy Burnham came in with a Chancellor that was the Defence Secretary and rather than committing national interest And putting out defence posture first he's come out with a litany of promises which will all do with securing the left support That's exactly what this is actually about Not putting the national interest first And I'm really pleased to see Kemy Ben-Nok and indeed others now saying this is unacceptable And the nation should be crying out because unless we do something quickly we will be attacked And then the finger will be pointed at number 10 to say why didn't you do more in the first place when you were warned Lastly Tobias, did you learn anything about the Prime Minister's stance yesterday or had you always sense that was where he was?

56:29I genuinely didn't know and the fact that you had John Healey who resigned as Defence Secretary on this very point To say Britain is subject to a series of fresh dangers that we are unprepared for because our own forces are still dated back in the 1990s mode That we need to upgrade to have him as Chancellor that was good news But now we look back at those months, wasted months, it takes years to develop the platforms to train the professionals and so forth And get us ready for the type of warfare that's coming over the hill and we're not doing that at all So I'm afraid this Prime Minister is putting our country in danger Great for a few times ever to buy a cell with served as Conservative MP, long serving as a MP Also was Defence Minister and chaired at the Defence Select Committee 12 after eight Let's bring in the conversation David McGillani who's Director of Policy and Practice One of the architects of the Universal Credit Welfare System regularly helps us on matters such as these And I always enjoy our conversations, good to have you on board again Can I ask you what you learnt from the Prime Minister's stance on this yesterday? Good morning to you, Devon

57:30Great to be on Nick, yeah I think I guess I learned things that I already know He's had a lot like me on the show in some ways, right? So the point isn't that we shouldn't be saving money in Social Security It's that sensible cuts, sensible savings and Social Security take time And when you make cuts without thinking them through the cost pop-up elsewhere in the system And we've seen that in 2013, we've seen that at other points And actually Conservative Secretary of State, some of whom I've worked for have made these same points When they've been in the position of seeing the impact of these cuts When they're trying to, when they're being asked to make them buy the Treasury, short term cuts can have long term consequences that can drive costs up It's a bit of a blunt crude headline, national security aren't come at the expense of Social Security But it does kind of sum up really what Mr. Bernan was saying, how do you respond to that? I think it's a vibes point, right? So I think the Conservatives have latched on to you a line that I think sounds good

58:32And you know, Kerry's going to be on your show later I think They're going to be making hair after this, but I don't think there's that much difference really Between what Labour Party want, which is to show that their big on Social Security As you said, the former Defence Minister has been made the Chancellor say he will be showing That he needs to be able to find these savings, but how they're going to do that is the question And the problem every government has is saving quick cuts, rapid cuts and Social Security that land within the Parliament Me taking money away from people directly, where our sensible cuts mean stopping the root causes of people being on Social Security Getting people back into work, staying in work, and those kinds of reforms take time Lastly, briefly, if you can, Devon, do you think there is money to be found judiciously and cautiously There is money to be found in the welfare budget? They absolutely are savings to be made, right? So stopping people from moving on to Social Security for working age But actually the biggest number as you know, Nick, is in pensioner benefits

59:33The state pension is over 150 billion pounds and by my maths, the triple lock is going to add 1.5 billion pounds this year And every year subsequently for as long as it stays in place When actually previously, it's probably done its job, it's pushed the state pensioner up to a much more reasonable level Can we sustain it when we're having these conversations about and who's going to be fighting towards who do we need working in the Ministry of Defence? It's going to be working age people All right, I need to leave it there. Always enjoy speaking with you. Have yourself a good day. Thank you. Devon, Elani is Director of Policy and Practice. Those budgets you just referenced The entire welfare budget, including around £1.6 billion is £322 billion, that's the whole budget The defence budget is £68 billion. Will you be the first caller on that? Plus, later in the show, we welcome the Bayer tapestry and it's fit for a king May this tapestry and the treasures that will travel in return Stand as symbols not only of our shared past but our shared future And coming up later in the hour There are no big and bicycles in Bayer

1:00:36I know there are Katie, but where? She wishes the London Borough that is going to insist that rental bites have license plates Stay tuned, you'll find out in this hour Nick Ferrarian Breakfast on LBC Call 03456060973 Just coming up on 20 minutes before 8, so it's the welfare budget over the defence budget Will's impressed and will your reaction to that? Good morning Good morning, Nick. First time speaking to you Great to have you on board. Thanks for calling me. What do you want to tell me? Yeah, I fully agree with Tobias LWD. I'm not You know, I wouldn't say that Tobias LWD found there was a couple of things a few years ago with the Taliban And you know, a lot of the armed forces I am serving army officer You're serving officer now, are you? Yeah, and the comments yesterday It's just unbelievable. And the message I've been in is really clear and Tobias told it's totally right You will not have welfare if we have welfare. It is absolutely the national infrastructure

1:01:42Employment, national effort, look back to Covid. Covid is the closest, this current generation of anyone regardless of your age Has been to some level of national effort Now we couldn't have predicted that. The impact that has had six years later on the economy, on employment, on government, on policy, on everything With something we just wouldn't have predicted six and a half seven years ago. That will come again. That will come again in the form of warfare If this country isn't equipped. This country, this government is doing what the Blair government did in the late 2000s Where they sent people to Afghanistan and Iraq under equipment in snatch land rovers, soft skin land rovers And this is just another version of that. Technology is big. There's investment. There is investment in the armed forces, in modernization and innovation And absolutely that is the right thing. But we haven't got the people to use the modernized and the innovative equipment And it takes a long time to regenerate an armed force. And yes, we have the regular reserve. Yes, we have lots of people that have a liability

1:02:44But let's be honest. We are facing a brute across a couple of thousand miles away And they are poking and poking around the edges continually and they will continue to poke and we will continue to sit there and watch And if people want to choose welfare over welfare, you will never have welfare for another generation It's worse remembering that Blair incident because of course as you rightly say they were land rovers at canvas tops There were radios that didn't work and boots that weren't fit for purpose in the sand. What is morale like among the men and women brave enough to serve will? At the end of the day, I think if you sign up to the armed forces is because you've got something a little bit in you that says, this suits me It's a bit of a hand in glove, a bit of service. You know, you've gone over the days of King and Country, Queen and Country for everyone The majority still are absolutely. But you know, the armed forces is the calling for maybe a bit like being a nurse or a doctor, maybe a police officer So morale is still good and morale is still good, you know, and actually at the end of the day there's a lot of good stuff that happens. It's brilliant career

1:03:47There's a lot of investment in in personal development. But at the same time, you know, we are in the same position as we always have been We will turn up on the day and we'll do what we need to do. But continually the government thinks that we will just turn up on the day and we will win And that day will come where we won't and it will be too late and it will be far too late What was your clever line again? We won't have wealth. We won't have wealth. Do we have welfare and warfers? We will not have welfare in this country if we have warfers Thank you for your call. Thank you for your service. Safe journey. You're obviously in a car. We will not, that's so telling, isn't that? Guy and Cleathop sure the next call. Good morning. Good morning Nick. Yeah, difficult act to follow that. Well, no, no, no, no, absolutely. Really on the money. My goodness. Absolutely. They couldn't agree more. Yeah, the government this government has came in and said we're going to make the difficult decisions. They haven't made a single one yet. Absolutely. I suppose the difficult decision was the 14 year terms that did. I haven't sorted that. It's a good point here on you go.

1:04:52I mean, seriously. So I mean, the other bits as an obvious observation is what actually canceling training exercises. Because you haven't got enough money to train. I know. I saw that. I saw that. I saw that. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. And just sort of one last bit is when I look at the stats from what I can get from reliable sources. We've got 10 million people of working age on benefits. We've got 13.2 million people who are receiving a pension and we've got 49 eligible, 49 million eligible. So effectively nearly half of the population are receiving welfare. So I think part of this is just labor running scared of upsetting. You know, part of the voted. Well, can I put you possibly some in some instances there? Corvo guy. Well, yeah, well, I mean, I take you down right to Christmas. Guys, thank you. Have a good day. Let's come to the text and the emails. Dean, if Andy Burnham,

1:05:54and genuinely is national security, can't come with the expense of social security has fundamentally misunderstood the first duty of government. The first responsibility of any government is to protect the security sovereignty and territorial integrity of the nation. Everything else depends upon that foundation. You cannot guarantee social security. If you cannot guarantee the security of the state. This comes from Graham. I thought it was aesthetic from Keny Badenock and Ed Davies yesterday. If you fail on national security, then social security is integrates. If you take him off the hook, well, the four of those two, Keny Badenock will join us in the next hour. Adrian, you'll be the next caller on that. But let's go to other matters. And as you've heard on the LBC News bulletin, the BIO tapestry opens to the paying public at the British Museum in London today. It's a sellout to tickets gone sell for 2027. It's a 70 meter long embroidery depicting the events leading up to the battle of Hastings and the Norman conquest of England in 1066, which if you're interested, is one of the most common pins, PINs in the country. Why would you put tens? So if you do, can I suggest you change it pretty rapidly because they're going to try 1066, but back to our story.

1:06:58What effect did the invasion have on modern Britain in terms of a legacy on our culture, politics and our economics? LBC's Henry Riley investigates. As land owning lords, the Norman dominated medieval England, both politically and economically, after the Norman conquest of 1066. The Song of Roland, an 11th century peace written in Anglo-Norman French sung during the Battle of Hastings. The tangible differences and cultural influences that can be attributed from and since the first North man, King of England, William the Conqueror, include the buildings, huge castles built at Colchester and in the capital at the Tower of London. When the White Tower was built between 1078 and 1100, it stood at 27 meters tall. It completely dominated the surrounding city of London as a testament to the power of the new regime.

1:08:09They were the largest secular buildings in stone for over six centuries before the time of the Romans. Battalabie in Hastings was founded in 1071 and still stands to this day, likewise Durham Cathedral. It offers perhaps England's best and purest look at Norman architecture. The architecture is unusually harmonious because the church was completed in just 40 years and survives essentially unaltered. Round arches and zigzag decorations are textbook Norman style. The Norman's also transformed cider, introducing tannic and acidic apple varieties and state of the art pressing technology. Many Norman's were Vikings who'd mood south from Scandinavia. Chris Munn's Torres is the orchard and farm manager for thatch as cider. I think it was the monks that made cider out there. They've got a good reputation for making cider in France and we brought them to North Somerset. There's been an interchanging history between the west of England and the west country and Norman being northern France in terms of exchanging expertise and apple varieties over the years.

1:09:09Aside from the booze, new ingredients were brought over, mostly benefiting the elite at the time, rabbits and dairy products. Our journey starts in Normandy, butter, creme fraiche, liver o, pondlovac, nerve chattel and of course camombeer, a soft ripen cheese, sold in a small thin wooden box. Staying with the dining table manners such as not talking with a full mouth or placing elbows on the table have been linked to the Norman influence. The roots of the modern day census are linked to the Doomsday Book of 1086. While linguistically there became a noticeable combination of old English and French or middle English with French used in government and spoken by rich landowners, words like pork, beef and mutton, like justice, court and evidence as well as government, parliament and council. What a lovely report! Maybe that, Martin and Bitt. Henry Riley they're going back in the days of Norman times. Adrian, you'll be the next caller concerning.

1:10:15What links that report with Adrian and Ainsford? The butchers on Ainsford High Street is called Norman's. There you go. What are the chances? This programme is put together with Gossama Thread. Also coming up after the news. I want to ride my bicycle. I want to ride my bike. Well you can but you've got to be careful because there's one London bearer announces it will introduce some form of license or registration on those rental bikes. Surely that is a move forward. And shouldn't it come across the whole of London indeed possibly the whole of the country? And of course as I say we'll come back to that route. Should it be benefits? Should it be bullets? Should it be social security? Should it be national security? And on that light of course we're going to be hearing from the conservative party leader, Kimmy Bay do not let'll be in the next hour more of your calls on that in just a moment. Who says Halloween only last one day? With Waifare, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home. From larger than life yard decor and moody lighting to festive accents for every room in the house. Waifare has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place.

1:11:21Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night. They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Waifare.com. Waifare every style every home. Best thing that's ever happened to you financially. Go. Easy sold by car on Carvana. Amazing offer. Really? I hit 200 on the scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once. Okay, that's fair. It's like the lottery except you always win. Not like the lottery at all actually. Exactly inexplicably good. Offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up these may apply. It's 833 coming to you Adrian in just a minute. Let's just get a couple of the text and emails that are coming in. Clyde Olchian in Rossonvale Lancashire. If we're going to review the triple lock to save money. Can we at the same time have a look at the gold plated inflation protected civil service final pension schemes.

1:12:23It's a scheme paid to civil servants MPs and local government officers. If you look at that, it'll make your eyes water. Christian Mahalak says this is setting up a forced dichotomy. High defense spending does not automatically mean cutting welfare. A government could raise revenue cut spending elsewhere. Borough more. Oh god, I don't think a borough any more. Or change asher other budget priorities. You can absolutely argue about whether more should be spent on defense. But framing it as a military security versus social security assumes one must come at the expense of the other. Respectfully so it was the prime minister did that not me. And lastly Paul says take the pension bill from the benefits bill. Then have a conversation. We're already paid into our pensions yet they're counted as benefits as your caller said. Half the people within that amount are claiming something as pensioners so you can't count those. Well very very broadly welfare budget 322 billion pounds of which one 60 is state pension. So you've still got one 60 billion M.O.D. Ministry of Defense budget 68 billion. So almost 100 billion more. And as we said, there'll be nothing to defend if we don't have a military.

1:13:27Adrian and Ainswood your view of this. Good boy. How is Norman subuchers. Good morning Adrian. Adrian what's happening that part of Ken London calling London calling come in Adrian. Save yourself Danny boy. Save yourself. You don't know why that's about that's from where he goes there. Right we can't keep his other gentleman waiting any longer. So we go to another story. There are not even bicycles in Beijing. That's a fact. It's a thing. I can't. Well I case you I don't know how many bicycles there are in London but sometimes it feels like 9 million. A motion seemed to have been thrown in the middle of the road. But one London borough it is reported is going to do something about it or at least rental e-bikes in a London borough. And let's turn to that borough now. Time to take you out of your misery we bring into the conversation council Alexander Aiman. Join deputy leader of Richmond borough council and chair of the transport committee. Good to have you answer. Council tell me the actions that you tell me the actions that you and your council are going to bring about.

1:14:29Well I mean these are actions of forest are you bike provider and what they're doing is they're going to put identification numbers on their bikes. So the view is that through this new change that forest are implementing in our borough and about 500 of our present one and a half thousand bikes operating in and out of the borough will have this new livery on them is that it will make it easier for forest and individuals witnessing. I'm struck to behavior or dangerous cycling to be able to report them to forest to be able to take commercial action against the users seems a good idea to me how big a problem is it for the good folk of Richmond borough council. Well it's a it's a problem it certainly is a problem I mean my inbox I have to say is not deluge day and day out by issues with these bikes I know that a lot of people see these bikes parked in positions very often that are far from ideal. But you know we have we have obviously a very congested urban environment in London as a whole with a lot of competing modes and these are part of that set of pressures and it is worth remembering that these bikes in our borough alone were responsible for over a million journeys and that's helping congestion on our roads as well because these are a million users obviously not using motor transport as an alternative and making juries easier for those that have to.

1:15:47I know you say forest bikes there is of course another well known supply which I feel like an announcement name lime you don't have line bikes in Richmond borough. We don't we did we don't any longer. Can I ask why that is Councillor well we conducted basically because in order to ensure that we were getting the best value for our residents we conducted a thorough process earlier well into last year into this year where we conducted a procurement exercise looking at all of the providers taking on board resident. Concerns about parking and other other matters and assessed lime forest voyant others against criteria which put quality of the service both for users and non users top of our priority list followed by cost to users trying to bring down the cost of using these bikes and followed by you know whatever contribution they might make to the council to support public services and through that process forest scored more highly than any of the other bidding providers so we are going to do that. We are going to go through the process and we will have a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of providers so we we we said politely and kindly we say goodbye to you to lime and we said hello to forest and for us we've been here now for a couple of months.

1:16:55very good progress. We've seen a reduction in some of the harms and this latest initiative is an example of the innovation that we're able to bring through that process. And broadly speaking, most residents were happy with the switch or was there some sort of holdouts who said no, we were other like our line operation? Well, look, you know, you always end up with, you know, some people in Microsoft folks, some people in Apple folks, and clearly when you make a change like this is disruptive. And some residents clearly like the line service, got very used to it, had built subscriptions around it and so on. So I won't say there wasn't sort of natural friction to making a change. There was, but I think the key thing is, is this service operating better? Have we got a wider service? Have we got better mobility between neighboring boroughs? Have we reduced prices and delivered taxpayer value? The odds to all of those is yes. I think it makes perfect sense. And grateful for your time. Thank you, Alexander Aiman. Your Council and Joint Deputy Leader of Rich and Bura Council, you chair the Transport Committee. Wouldn't that be a joy, a particularly if you go around Central London? There are parts I'm

1:17:56thinking of areas such as Covent Garden, Leicester Square, which is where the LBC and all the global studios are and around that area. And is it for some people, they just throw the bike on the ground. Whenever I use one of these, you have to take a photograph and show that it's in a suitable place. And then you send a picture across and then they, you hear a pin and that's it done, okay? So who comes along then and then throws them in the middle of the road? And as for a bay in traffic lights, it is quite extraordinary. I came in, well I come in every day, not every day, I mean every weekday, pretty much the same road. Sometimes we take a few diversions. I absolutely guarantee that of 10 cyclists who come up to a red light, one, one will observe it. Now, I appreciate this is rental bicycles, I get it and that's not going to be one people who have their own bikes. Came up last, oh, yesterday morning and it was quite dark because I came in a little bit earlier. And there was a cyclist going up the Old Kent road with no lights on whatsoever. Not even a rear reflector, I don't know where that had probably been smashed, I've no idea. Plus he, I think it was a he, it was difficult to tell, was wearing a dark,

1:18:59could it top in very, very poor condition, very, very dark, very poor conditions, yesterday, the day before. Now again, I know that that won't have a license plate on it unless it was a rental bicycle. But wouldn't it be great that we have some more responsibility? Was it Michael Govis? He said it was Michael Govis, sorry, Lord Govis, my apologies, I just demoted him. It was Lord Govis, who said that they think they like, they're crusaders, they're like knights of the road, these people. They're not knights, they are a nuisance and nothing more than that. This is what you're saying on the texts and the emails. Bike cars should include helmets, too many cyclists are not wearing them, that's Simon in Edinburgh. Alves says, if we have ID on rental bikes, do we need a new law to demand that the company declare who was riding the bike at the time of the incident? This comes in from Dominic in Isoweth, I live in Houndslowe, we have the same problem with the bikes parking everywhere and I report them daily. But Dominic, wouldn't it help you? And of course, Houndslowe is a different borough to Richmond, although I think you might be adjacent to actually you're certainly not fat far. If you able to actually report the number, don't you think that would

1:20:00make more sense? I've done one in that in a moment. But let's come back to our conversation concerning defence. Now hopefully we've got aligned about 14 miles down the road to Ainsford in Kent and Adrian. Adrian, hello. Yeah, hello Nick, sorry about that. My wife turned my car on and the phone appeared to the car. That wife does everything she can to stop you getting on the wireless, isn't she? You're quite right. I'm going to drop down to the plow and have a few words with Mrs Adrian and they're going to be five grumpy words. Right, what are you actually I'm frightened of already. What is it? Best way to be actually. Poor Mrs Adrian, I'm sure, can I have a first name? Do you mind awfully if I have a first name? Please. I'm sure Liz is a wonderful, does Liz use Norman's the butchers on the high street? Yes, she does and the sausage is superb. I used to buy them from my late mum. I was always in Norman's by and over there. So yeah, well given my love in the butchers, right. Thank you sir. National Security or Social Security, which is more important?

1:21:00Well, I think when the drones start coming over and people start waving their benefits play for work at them, they will suddenly realise what's important. And you know, this benefit culture now that we have is not only dangerous to our defence, but it's dangerous to our economy as well because they're worried about the dropping GDP and the average output per person. And that's never going to improve all the time people are better off on benefits than working. And it's a major concern. You heard the PM or say or saw the PM say what he said. How did you react? Were you surprised? Did you think, well, yeah, I thought that would probably be very. I'm not surprised at it because I think he's pandering to a less wing electorates. And that's what they want to hear and he wants to stay in power. But we need people that are interested in the long term safety and security of our country and not just sitting in power. Lastly, don't know if you're a keen historian. We had to buy a cell. We talk about it's like 1937. We had someone who serves in the military say, yes, we need to be aware of what's happened in 2000. None of these

1:22:02warnings seem to be being heeded, do they? Lastly. Well, I compared him to Neville Chamberlain waving his piece of paper piece in our times. Well, it's benefits in our time. He's waving. He's a very dangerous man and he needs to go back to Manchester. Strong words. Look at yourself. Best wishes to Liz. Thank you. 843, Darryl and Kimberly. Darryl, the point you want to make. Good morning. Yeah, I mean, all this talk about cutting things all the time. Well, I can't we I mean, that's what Andy was getting out. We can't court one thing to pay for another. We need to graze the money. We're almost a trillion in debt. I really don't know that we can tax people any more. Darryl. Why we need tax to be rich. We need to go back to the 1960s. Right. And how successful is that because that gave us the 1970s and we the sick man of Europe and we were bailed out by the IMF. So that didn't really work, did it, sir? Well, the inequality was far like what? Between the Uberich and the in the fall. Right.

1:23:05The top 1% of the population are now paying 40% of the entire tax bill. And somebody has announced this week that he's leaving the country, Chris Ross. And he pays £330 million in tax last year. Do you honestly think taxing the rich is the way to go? They must pay their fair share, by the way. I'm not stressing out give them tax costs. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's pretty good. I mean, it was a Tory doughnut. It's done this. What other? Well, it doesn't matter whether you're a Tory doughnut. It doesn't matter what we do. It's a green doughnut. It's £330 million that we won't have. Do you not see the folly of that? Yeah, but we can't keep being put over the coal by the Uberich. How? Honestly, Darryl, how are we put over the coal by the Uberich? Because that's what everybody's frightened of because, obviously, a lot of the political party doughnuts are the Uberich and every political party is over the coal. I don't understand. How are they putting us over the coal? I think you're not threatening to leave the country. Yeah, I'll leave in the country. I just told you. Yeah, because they don't understand

1:24:09what Harry was in the six. It where people were proud to support the country and the people of the country. Yeah, of course that won't impried when the lights went out. We had to get about at 10 o'clock and do our homework by candles. That was hugely proud moment for the country. Darryl, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, but disagree to part. Have a safe day in Nottingham coming up after the news. The government's under fresh pressure to scrap a multi-million pound NHS deal with controversial American tech giant Palantir. I'm Joseph Draper with the details. Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home. From larger than life yard decor and moody lighting to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place. Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night. They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com.

1:25:11Nick Ferrari and Breakfast on LBC call 034560673. And that's the number that Emma's called. We're talking e-bikes in just a moment coming up on 10 minutes before 9 the time. We're going to come back to the conversation though for the emails and the text regarding defense. Tommy and Beckinum, the current discussion with regards to funding out of fence reminds you of the COVID situation. That's what, well, the Army officer said earlier with his call. I read on. I knew a couple of medical personnel who unfortunately were dealing with COVID patients in hospital whose lives were coming to an end. They told me the most common question was, can I have the injection? They had to tell the patients it was too late. When we're attacked, beware, Putin is the same vein. I don't think a strong word it's cease and to cease. Letter from number 10 will cut the mustard. Samantha Price Turner was listening to Wilk, the Army fellow as well. As a serving Army officer, I am so proud of Wilk. He's 100% right and he is spot on. Tor Madsen says globally, most nations are spending more on defense and developing new military capabilities. This means everyone else, us included, have to spend more on defense, developing new military capabilities. We have no choice as

1:26:15Tor. In reality, the combination of the global cost of living crisis, undermining global institutions, dismissing international law, embracing extreme political positions and increasing the amount of weapons means the world is spinning into a very dangerous situation. Actually, we'll talk about that with you in a moment, but we're talking e-bikes as well as one London borough Richmond, which by the way has the forest bike. I think it's probably safe to say that's not quite as big in size. It seems certainly in central London as big as line, but they're going to have plates on them. Emma's in Asheville. Your reaction to that. Emma, you're on the radio. Good morning. Good morning, Nick. Well, I've been thinking for a while as someone who drives in city and the Pete district and around my villages. I think it should be more of a personal identifier. I think if you're going to be on the road on a bike, honest scooter, you should be in a high list, whether your personal identifier on the back like in London playing it. And this is all bikes, of course, not just rental bikes, all bikes, all scooters. So when I put this to Boris Johnson when he was mayor of London, prior to being prime minister, he said that would take away the

1:27:19wonderful freedom of liberty and sense that you get your bicycle out of the shed, you check the air in the tires, you put your helmet on and off you go. How would you respond to that? I'll do it. Well, you know, I love riding through the Pete district, but if I took my number of plates off because I wanted to ride three, I'm sure that would be illegal. You mean you like driving through driving? Well, yeah, I'm just saying I need to be identified as a motorist and I'm not against people cycling, but an example is somebody I know want to be the awareness cause, and was there because it been reported by a cyclist who not given them enough space. Oh, really? So there's a lot of responsibility on motorists and you know what they like? They're driving around cycling around with the black coats and the hoods. And if I'm an incident, that's on me as someone in the most dangerous vehicle. But if something happens and they've not got the high-levels on with the personal identification, well, there's an element of responsibility on them as well. Emma, thank you. Safe cycling, safe riding, safe driving, whatever it might be.

1:28:22Actually, you're talking security in a moment. But let's come to a story that I was especially almost exactly an hour ago, actually, with A-Health Minister because a former health minister has called for a forensic review of 330 million pound NHS deal was palanted here this while as an LBC exclusive investigation. And here's obviously Joseph Traper joining me in the studio with all the details. Joseph, what have you got? Nick, well, good morning to you. Well, this is the contract that the previous Conservative Government awarded to Palantir. It was worth 330 million pounds. And it would see it build a set of digital tools essentially to help the NHS become more efficient, gathering huge amounts of patient data. Since then, though, the deal's been dog-reedy by controversy. Not just about patient privacy and the growing role of that AI company in British life, of course, it has a very controversial relationship with the Trump administration. But there's also growing concern as well about whether this deal is even worth the money. It could cost around 1 billion pounds to bring this technology into all NHS trusts

1:29:22across England. Donald Campbell is the director of advocacy at Foxcler. That's a group campaigning against the deal. Is everybody told us? The Government and Palantir for a long time have been relying on these kind of cherry-picked figures that don't give the full picture. And now that's starting to unravel. If we're going to have a debate about whether Palantir should have a role in the NHS, that needs to be based on solid data, not kind of marketing spin, which is what we've seen from the Government and from Palantir so far. Nick, we've now uncovered new data, which is adding to those doubts. It shows that half of the NHS England trusts using one of Palantir's tools to cut waiting lists actually saw their backlogs rise since the National Row out to begin two years ago. Some of them buy up to 20%. Now the Labour Government, which inherited this deal, is always defended it in April, but then Health Minister Zubea Ahmed told MPs that technology had been a resounding success and that it had exceeded every target. But he's since stepped down from

1:30:24Government and this is what he told us after we showed him our findings. Certainly adds to uncertainty and certainly should be stimulating a spirit of inquiry. Let's just say that is greater than before in terms of what value is being added by some of the digital products that we have bought. The ferocity and granularity with which we need to answer that question I think now goes up a notch. And that is piling at more pressure I think on the Prime Minister Andy Burnham to decide whether to pull out of this Palantir contract. The deadline to do that is later this year. Two cross-party parliamentary groups have already urged the Government to do so. Here's what the public Health Minister Dame Diana Johnson told Unic earlier in the show. My understanding is that there is a review of the NHS relationship with Palantir. Obviously the person you referred to is a former Health Minister. Now on the back benches but it's a very esteemed surgeon I think up in Glasgow. So obviously we want to listen to what he has to say but as I understand it there is a review that will be undertaken.

1:31:27Now a spokesperson for the Department of Health and Inc added that thousands of patients were benefiting from this technology and Palantir said that this software is helping to improve patient care nationally. Joseph Draper reporting with an exclusive four minutes before nine is the time. Let's come back to that at Defence argument. Jenny says I'd be happy to give up the triple lot to help pay for Defence. The safety of my family now and in the future is Karen in Atlborough in Norfolk by Minister said without the Prime Minister without a mandate saying he will not protect the people who have been paying their taxes and keep the money rolling in. If it gets a subscription who will be called upon would it be the taxpayers or those on welfare who have been left running the country day to day actually in Becken's field on this? Where do you see the priorities? Actually you're on the radio. Good morning. Good morning Nick. The priorities are very much in favour of Defence with the global issues that we've got going on. There's never been more of a right time to to reduce welfare spending. There are far too many people that are rosely reliant on on the welfare in this country. I'm not saying vulnerable people people that actually deserve it.

1:32:29Just generally people in as a whole it commercially doesn't stack up in the slightest. It makes no sense and the Prime Minister needs to act. How have we got to this position with the welfare budget? We've got in this position because there hasn't been in my opinion there hasn't been any government since Tony Blair was elected in 1997 that has had a backbone to stand up to it and Tony Blair obviously Tony Blair did what Tony Blair did and he started this welfare revolution in terms of handouts and making it more accessible and I suppose trying to squeeze the gap between the middle men and the people at the top but you're never going to get there and because people aren't going to want to pay more tax and that's just part and parcel of how it is. I run two businesses and I've already written to my local MP to say if there is another national insurance high-con businesses or if there's another tax increase on businesses which seems to happen

1:33:30more so under this government than then the last it will be unviable for me and that's another 150 people that we put down the job centre sadly. Actually thank you look after yourself Peter says it's a bit rich for the failed Tories to criticise the current government they have 14 years decimating the military. Gary's in Cheshire says it's easy indeed for people with jobs to say cut-well for suspending on guns. However what Burnham is saying spending on defence will still go up without making families homeless. Let's finish with a call on e-bikes reminding Richmond Barrett's going to say that they must have some kind of registration plate they have forest bikes out there just so that you know not Lyons. Jason Irne called it your reaction to that news. Jason you're on the radio. Good morning. Good morning Nick thanks for taking my call. So I am not a full first time caller but I felt I don't very often call I felt particularly strongly about this so I just wanted to get my points crossed. I completely agreed with what Emma said just what that's sort of a three or four minutes ago I believe it was. Right because I mean I have

1:34:30been known to cycle so it's not like I'm dead to it against the cyclist but I mean even if e-bikes hadn't come along I've for a long time believed that it's I don't know kind of unfair in a manner of speaking but what way is there unfairness would you say. As a motorist I'm insured I stand to get points on my license I could have more premiums changed if anything happens but on the other hand as a cyclist you have no comeback you can do whatever you want and it's always going to be the motorist who pays the price either through points on their license or through insurance premiums and like I say would be escalation of e-bikes I think this is making matters worse because Michael Gove says some of them behave like Knights of the Road there's an a sense of entitlement quick response to that if you would Jason I completely agree and that'll do it safe cycling safe driving safe walking safe everything thank you the music means we have to move on and we come to this

1:35:31concerning story I've discussed it in the first hour the headline that says that ultimately AI could eradicate humankind a view from a former prime minister I love AI do you use AI absolutely new is churchy beauty you know churchy beauty I love churchy beauty I love it churchy beauty is is fantastic for a former leader the conservative party Boris Johnson to currently the chemi beta knock the prime minister is talking about spending more on welfare the benefits bill is set to rise that money could be going on defense chemi made not will join us later in this hour and we are at the queue at the British Museum as the bigger tapestry finally goes on display to the public those stories and more will follow the nine o'clock news on lvc this is lvc from global leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast good morning four minutes after nine Thursday the 10th of September had a headline that should

1:36:33travel all of us AI could kill us all in four years wants an expert in AI I'll be asking how fearful are you on how much do you actually use it is there a real fear a real fear that you could lose your job and if as many people are many young people mostly young people are going off to university in some instances are they actually studying courses where the chances of getting employment are pretty slim because AI will take their jobs we're hearing from this party leader later in the hour people try and look for terrible names to describe what is actually common sense we need to live within our means we should not be spending our children's money on making them unsafe conservatively the chemi beta knock she's joining us later in this hour and later in this hour are also going at last the Bayer tapestry opens to the public French eyes are on London they as their beloved buyer tapestry goes on display at the British

1:37:35Museum and Pjorallum reporting for lbc in Paris but it's not the field you know the I for the breakfast call O3456060973 text 8485O Nick Barariat breakfast on lbc to this chilling claim which has made the following headline AI could kill us all in four years wants an expert now this is a research and anthropic which is a leading company in this field resigning warning a i labs are developing technology that could kill us all by the end of the decade it's 2026 his name is Jacob Coxon he specializes in training new systems for both anthropic and it's rival open a i open a i he said he feared the race by the two companies to develop artificial intelligence risks both bots they could not control quotes they're racing straight to self-improving super intelligence and gambling with our lives do not underestimate the power

1:38:36of this technology these will seem to be superhuman systems that can hack anything revolutionize any field overnight and acquire real power and resources now in the first hour of the show I was joined by Mark crystal now Mark initially came on to talk about the horrific night he had on Tuesday said Edinburgh Airport after his flight from JFK to London he's a John F. Kennedy in to London Heathrow was diverted but it also turned out he was CEO of the AI company profit mind so I asked him as one of his ordeal in Edinburgh about these warnings concerning AI as an AI CEO I'm very excited about what this is going to do it's the you know next industrial revolution I think it's going to create more good for the world than it then it creates harm but I do think in the short term there are a lot of things we need to navigate and I think there's short term worries that we do need to focus on and I think politicians and others are a quite a long way behind in this and a bigger short term worry in a sentence I'd say more economic

1:39:36I think there's going to be a significant shift in employment and where jobs actually exist and types of qualifications you need to be successful so I worry I've got 20-year-old kids who are I'm worried about what they're going to do 10 years from now so how have we got to where we are let's bring the conversation will guide who's my obc colleague will see technology correspondent and actually I want to look forward by coming back in time what has been the history of the development of AI will morning I could talk about this for hours so kick me under the desk if I go too long James Brown would do the kicking if you hear for another hour I'm warning you now so do go on we can trace our official intelligence back to 1956 and that's where there was this idea of logic symbols and expert systems and there was this huge hype at the time I wasn't there don't remember it but I'm assured there was a huge hype at the time and it dried up funding dried up because promises simply weren't met and then you've got this huge gap till probably the 80s when something called machine learning takes over and instead of writing rules this is about

1:40:41computers learning patterns from data this sort of stuff had existed since the 1950s but it was too weak to be useful so as computer technology improved this is when this stuff started working and in the early days of the internet it was being used to power spam filters search engines and all of the stuff that we're used to today the big thing happened in 2012 this is something called deep learning there's tons of data on the internet graphics chips originally built for powerful video games became useful and there were better training tricks to do this in google and other companies started pumping money into it in 2016 deep mind the UK company they built a system called alpha go and it beat a world champion at this game go if you remember back to the 1980s where it was deep blue casparoth versus the IBM computer this was one of the first examples of AI learning being able to beat a human being at something and it all kind of started coming together in 2017 google created a new architecture and it was a lot easier to scale this kind of whole idea of AI

1:41:47better than before I would say 2022 is when we all really really got switched on to this and from there in the last four years we've gone from you know being able to make unconvincing AI there's videos if you look at the evolution of AI the best way to look at it Nick and I urge you to find the video is seeing human being eating pasta if you asked an AI AI system to create a human being eating pasta the stuff from just three or four years ago look like nightmare fuel it looks like something from a horror movie but now four years later you probably couldn't tell the difference between a human being eating pasta and the AI interpretation of a human eating pasta that's how quickly this technology has evolved and I'm using pasta because at the same time behind the scenes you've got cancer detection you've got logic you've got reasoning you've got all of these things that are improving you know it iteratively so quickly when the headline says will

1:42:49it could kill us all in four years and this isn't out of the sun or the daily mirror this is out of the daily telegraph it is that a fair encapsulation nobody nobody knows and this is the problem and if you listen to any of the interviews from these researchers from the last few days nobody has really said to them what is the what is the tipping point what is the reason what they're saying at the moment is that these these tools these systems are powerful the more powerful you make them without putting controls in place that's when we have these potential risks the idea like in terminator two from 1991 the computers taking over the world because the examples we've seen so far that everybody's getting really fixated with and you know this is the large language models essentially breaking out of their own control areas hacking other companies that is because they have specifically been instructed to take the guard rails down it's a bit like me and you go for a night of temp in bowling and me having to have the guard rails up on the side of the alley because I keep throwing

1:43:50the ball everywhere those were taken down so therefore anything went and the AI the AI large language model went in the directions it thought it needed to go to prove it was great at hacking something so and finally we can't fit a default button here you know like a sort of a disrupt button like you see in the movies where you just press the red button and it will it all fizzles out nobody seems to be putting that in place Nick and and the one thing to slightly terrify listeners this morning is nobody nobody's properly in control of this chips are being smuggled back from Taiwan into China despite their being in bar goes they being snuck in in separate PCs deconstructed and built into huge data centers so nobody's in control of this governments around the world talk strong about regulation but are rolling back because they don't want their countries to be left behind and nobody nobody is in full control of what's happening you can't you can't be in control of something if you're not involved in the creation of it and every time there's a

1:44:51new headline governments etc around the world are catching up at the same times you and I have adjusting it and the more you and I talk in desperate terms about this stuff 10% chance of you know destruction 20% chance of destruction come this time next year we're going to say it's the end of the world and nobody will be listening that is the problem let's hope people are still listening to the show a bit nervous about that will will guide his LBC technology what if they're listening I won't be here anymore because they'll quite rightly get rid and I will guide his LBC technology correspondent listening to that was professor Dame Wendy Hall who's an expert in AI member of the UN advisory board on AI and also the regist professor of computer science at the University of Southampton thanks very much for coming on Dame Wendy the headline AI could kill us all in four years response if you would it won't calm down calm down I'm relaxing I'd like to say will it was excellent he could come and lecture at Southampton on AI it was very good except the last couple of comments for our world market so I give him a out 10 but the the

1:45:55thing is that when they you and you ask these people I've heard the Jeffreyington interview last night as well and the people from anthropic and they never say actually how it's going to wipe out the whole it's actually quite hard to wipe out the whole world you know covid had a go and but you know so say a virus right it the events of virus that whistle through it won't you know there's all sorts of ways in which we protect ourselves with that but anyway let's not go down that route right the big thing is the big thing is that this is another push an urgent push for real regulation of this industry there is no regulation at the moment which is what will said no regulation and the big the big countries of course are the US and China interestingly president she's in in uh uh american x week um we're all hoping that AI will be on the agenda because at some point these two countries have got to agree on international standards for safety testing the companies are being so irresponsible both in their lack of abilities of raining their

1:47:00models and their agents and keep them safe keep us safe and also in what they're saying I mean can a company saying you know our stuff could wipe you out in four years oh I don't know what I'd say well let's stop using their products the warning they have some control here then when it comes in a growing concerns about the dangers of nascent AI models hundreds of open AI bots went rogue during trials in July escaping their testing lab teaming up to launch a cyber attack on a rival software company this is the stuff of doctor who or snow was it's it's it's it's it's yes it is but it's their responsibility to keep that under control they're not exercising it are they prefer exactly so they've got to be forced to there has to be regulation and the um you know the voices of calm and and and can't you know knowing what we need to do yeah and as to use the technology well it's good it's amazing technology you heard that from your that other interview did with the CEO yes yes I use technology we want to be able to harness it for the good but we've

1:48:06absolutely got to start thinking really seriously and putting about regulation and governance and putting pressure on the companies to do that because nobody's doing that at the moment lastly I have a note you co-chair the AI review for the British government some years ago if it years ago now yeah what were the findings of that in a couple of sentences when it can be used for the good it can be used my review is all about economic growth and job creation read it it's great it's still relevant I know we'll read it when I turn I'm in on presenting a radio show but I'll do my best thank you very much indeed professor Dan Wendy who'll expert in AI on the UN advisory board on AI and the regist professor computer science at the University of Southampton your reactions on AI coming up and also consider leader Kimmy Baynot join me after the 916 LBC headlines Matthew it Queen Carvani are stood haloed by the morning sun an army hung on her every word my champions I have sold my chariot on Carvana to a lovely SUV an inexplicably queenly offer they're even coming

1:49:12to the castle to collect it tonight we feast an offer you can feast on sell your car today on Carvana pick up fees me a five next for worry at breakfast call 0345 6060973 but dangerous the perils of AI Lindsay and Richmond upon terms how regularly do you use it good morning good morning nothing not a huge amount because I'm elderly and I just use the internet and stuff for normal stuff that my age group uses but I've seen the army films and I certainly I know you see in the what film sorry the terminated film oh yeah yeah yeah so it does worry me especially for the younger ones but this is so this is so it's a joke and serious can't we ask AI to invent a system to prevent AI I see so that is getting a turkey devote to Chris that is a

1:50:14turkey voting for Christmas isn't it yeah absolutely can't we do that uh you're asking the wrong person I mean I would imagine you can I mean I think the way that my LBC colleague will guide explained it in that they effectively deliberately take the guard rails away if you like to like it to a bowling alley and then they throw their arms up in panic oh my god it's run out of control when you've asked it to run out of control so it's an interesting question ultimately though last because I've got to go to I've got to leave you but in the final briefs and it could all kill us in four years you think that's a little bit of journalist hyperbole um well I hope it is absolutely right Lindsay thank you I will leave it there please don't think I'm being rude but I've got the opportunity to bring to the conversation the leader of the Conservative Party camey Baderock now of course if you were listening the first hour and indeed actually in the last hour we have been discussing at some length the position that was taken by the Prime Minister concerning defence with and I know this headline is a little bit of crude summing up but national security can't come at the expense of social security camey Baderock joins me now good to have you on I could see the incredulity on your face uh yesterday just expand to the listeners if you would what went

1:51:18through your mind when you heard the Prime Minister mention utter those words good morning to you so good good morning Nick I couldn't believe he'd said it in fact I think for a split second I thought no I must have misheard that he must have said something else but no he actually said national security should not come at the expense of social security and I believe that sometimes it does need to uh defence of the country is more important than paying benefits he's basically saying benefits are more important and this is why I say they're not the Labour Party anymore they're the welfare party they have become addicted to welfare uh we need to wean the country off welfare not feed this addiction um I have to put you and I have done this before but on behalf of my listeners they will be saying hang on although it wasn't kemi baderock she's residing over a party that cut cut cut the defence budget in years past kemi baderock so what I would say to that is that we were living in a different era Russia was in the G8 we were having our golden age with China we didn't think that these were going to be uh issues and everyone thought that the

1:52:21era of peace was going to last forever that was a mistake uh when the war in Ukraine started and when I got into cabinet in 2022 we increased defence spending and now the intelligence assessment says that Russia could attack a NATO country by 2030 we have to be ready for that so I'm saying let's get to the amount we need which is 3% of GDP by 2030 and Labour won't do it how are you going to fund it Mrs. Baderock so is it all goby how are you going to fund it so we have said that we are taking the money from the welfare budget there's a 10 billion pound shortfall and I have said that that will come from capping the local housing allowance reinstating the two child benefit cap we're taking some money from the national welfare fund so it's national wealth fund pardon me which is used on some of Ed Millibans net zero projects we're putting that into into defence we've explained how this will fund more troops we've also talked about scrapping that ridiculous trade-cost deal surrendering British territory paying 35 billion pounds for it over over the lease that's madness we can do this but funding our defence to this level

1:53:28will require difficult decisions I set out a plan to do so Andy Bonham needs to set out his plan he's not doing that instead he's saying all next year we'll look at it at the spending review it's too late already they should have done this last year and now he's saying next year let's move to other areas you have a piece of one of the newspapers today the Daily Mail and the introduction the intro Andy Bonham did the whole country of favour yes says a his PMQ's in what way of favour would you say what do we learn that we or perhaps not you but what did some of us learn perhaps we didn't know already so I think lots of people thought Andy Bonham would be a different kind of Prime Minister from Kirstalmer but he's showing that this is still the same old Labour party and I remember when we were leaving office in 2024 people you know rightly said it's time for the conservatives to go and and I understood that but what I also recognised was that there are many people who'd forgotten what Labour was really like many people assume that Tony Blair's Labour was what Labour was Andy Bonham is old school Labour the kind that we haven't seen in decades

1:54:31Neil Kinneck is his hero he still thinks Margaret Thatcher a woman who became Prime Minister before I 46 year old was born she's the root of all the problems and I want people to understand that this is what we're dealing with this is old school Labour they're going to tax tax tax they're going to blow all the money on welfare it is pure socialism they're going to run out of our money and he probably wants to call an election before people found this out and I think that now we know the truth he's done us a favour we talk about or he talks about creating growth and yet with us a week when there's a one particular gentleman Chris Rockoff who is a very successful hedge fund manager who's decided he's leaving this country last year his tax bill was £330 million what does that say to you about rich people their joy or otherwise living in the UK and creating growth so I was very sorry to hear that story he was our third largest taxpayer someone calculated that 38,000 taxpayers that he alone was covering that money three and a half billion over 10 years that's about a third of the money that we're looking for to cover defense until 2035 according to

1:55:33to Andy Burnham but they're leaving because they are afraid of Labour and they're taking not just their money but the jobs that they create with them we have to be a place where people like that want to invest in where people like that want to start their businesses in we have to be a place that encourages entrepreneurs not just big corporations but the kind of people who are risking something they're putting their their own jobs their houses their money on the line and at the moment people like that are leaving and I don't just mean the biggest taxpayers and the wealthiest young people are leaving and they're leaving because they can't get jobs we've got the worst graduate recruitment crisis on record they think that there's no future and no opportunity I want to bring back that opportunity that aspiration and I want them to see the concerted party is different and we've got a better offer and it's much better than what we had before it's also better than Labour's and reforms you mentioned Ed Milliband in his previous post he is of course now foreign secretary and a couple of days ago he spoke about these sanctions being brought in against certain companies on the West Bank for the chief rabbi it is effectively putting a target

1:56:34on the back of Jewish people living in this country and Ed Milliband says it's the responsible action where are you on this Mrs. Dave not? So I'm with the chief rabbi you know I tend to I know which side I'm on I think that's what's happening in those settlements is wrong but it's not the government that's that's doing all of it the settler violence it's it's individuals but I think sanctioning them in the middle of an election you know let's see what the Israeli people actually vote for and decide this is happening not for the British national interest but for the Labour parties interest because they've got a bi-election in Holburn this is a hot topic there they wanted to feed Zack Polanski and so they're using our foreign affairs brief to solve their their local Labour party problems and I think that's the wrong thing to do. As you joined us we were talking about a story that suggests AI could kill us all in four years warns an expert in AI. Mrs. Dave not how often do you use AI? Do you share any level of fear or concern? I'm extremely concerned

1:57:37about what those what those employees said I do think that we need to look at the AI capability that other countries have before as some people have said to use the phrase earlier to end humanity that requires us using sovereign capability now I'm not using AI to do anything as sophisticated as shutting down a power plant but we saw earlier this summer one of our power plants was shut down through cybersecurity AI enables this and what I use it for is you know it's search basically it's enhanced search it's it's research I think AI is a very useful tool but it can be dangerous what I want to see is how is our government defending us we need our own sovereign capability that means we need our own AI what we're seeing is China and the US running ahead of everyone else the US pulled one of its frontier AI models because it was too advanced we lost access to it if other countries develop capabilities that we don't have we won't be able to protect ourselves

1:58:37we need to make sure that we can develop this capability too that that that should be a government priority can I ask you last minute or so together the conservatives have reported so-called Bonnie Blue for using her new baby to promote sex stunts your colleague Joy Morrissey has written to the NSPCC to raise serious concerns and I warn listeners advance this shows the so-called Bonnie Blue sitting on a bed surrounded by three men in balaclava's and her newborn child on her lap the child's face is blurred the adult star in the video says yes I just excuse my language yes I just had a baby that means the six week rule does not apply to me because I had a C section down there still looking perfect Mrs. Baydenoff I think it is common sense that babies should not be used in porn I thought that video was grotesque Joy Morrissey the Newshadow equality minister did absolutely the right thing we need to protect childhood conservative party stands for protecting children I don't want to see babies in porn videos and when we think about those horrific cases of child abuse there were always red flags where

1:59:38people saw something that they knew wasn't quite right and they just looked away or thought well somebody else must be doing something about it and I think that this is the sort of situation where you have strange men in a porn video with a newborn baby it's disgusting what's going on someone needs to take a look and if the conservative party has to be the one to intervene then so be it as a mother speaking to another mother Bonnie Blue can we beg not what would you say to her don't use your children for pornography it's not right and it's not fair they are not able to consent what you do with your own life is your business but you don't drag children into porn of whatever age grateful for your time today wide-ranging conversation with the chemi baydenoff on which we touched about those of course the sanctions against Israel as a fence and of course the attempt to build growth chemi baydenoff leader the conservatives thank you Nick Ferrari and breakfast on lbc call 0345 6060 973 that extended interview with chemi baydenoff leader conservative party means we could not get to your course concerning AI so

2:00:42let's do that now Gabriel's in Hackney Gabriel your take us all go we're going to die as a result good morning hi Nick good morning yeah i'll just say to your researcher i mean those a few questions you ask me whether whether AI has actually you know taken over you when it will take over humans i think it already has and i was actually telling her about a case where i had against a legal firm for you know i well it was against a company that i took legal action again on yeah i've been for legal firm using AI sorry congema words are this right so yeah i mean also i own a small business i use it on a from daily tasks i use it for my accounting i use it to to you know i think i use it more as a tool rather than the final decision maker i think with AI what we need to do is treat it like a horse you know we need to like a horse what give it a and water and put it to bed at night well well well well why not you know i treat it as an employee assaulting and sumpowning us this is a strawberry fine but what i mean is i think we just need to learn to take control of it and ride it probably you know i use it as a tool

2:01:42you know i use it i use it i use it for research and you how many years gabriel have you been using what line of work are you in well i own a small wine bar actually in in in dolston so i use it for all my all my admin i use it for all my sort of looking through my account how long have you had the wine bar and about a year and a half what before it came along whatever work line of work you were in how did it revolutionize what you were doing then i mean it is i've been using it i'd say about a year and a half probably since i opened and i think the the leaks it's made since since i started using it it's pretty incredible you know initially it was just basic questions and you know just basic research and now you know you can literally open your screen and tell it to do tasks for you so i don't know if you're aware i use anthropic as well i use Claude and you know you can basically open your screen say you know i don't know your accounts page or whatever i instructed you open the the plug-in for Claude you can instruct it to actually do the task for you

2:02:42so what you'll do is take control of your screen and start doing the task that you instructed to do it's what that does is let free free free free some space up for me and time up to do other tasks does anything anything make you nervous about it do you ever pause and think my god this is a powerful beast this horse that i'm riding yeah i mean yes i do i do it it is very scary i mean how quickly everything's evolving and but and again this is this is my sort of my horse analogy is that if we learn how to to use it properly and use it for our reasons that i think a lot of people are you are making the mistake of using as the final decision maker and it's not you know it's not it's not it shouldn't be the final decision maker because it doesn't make mistakes you know you need to use the other tool as you would any other tool you know use it for the research that you're doing or use it to spare up spree if some time so like i said you know i can do three four five six seven tasks at the same time to you know what just because of a i so you know it for me say and valuable so i would say i've probably saved in the region of ten to fifteen thousand pounds

2:03:44just this year alone all right lastly and i've got to go but give your name if you want to could do give us the name of the wine by if you want some you don't have to tell me but if you want a well wide oh wide oh it's morning is table at four six four indulston table at four six four and thanks for the no worries give me one of your better reds what would i get if i came down there you got something nice i mean we change we change we don't do those kind of things you know we're very modern wines they're you know very very new age well okay all right i'm rooted well appropriately enough i'm rooted in french wine of course good luck with that wine bar game but uh appropriately it's in french wine because we are witnessing history in the making as the bio tapestry goes on for the paying public display at the british museum we'll go to our reporter there in just a moment that's the eleventh century normand song the song of roland if you're listening to the previous air we asked what are the normands ever done for us and they did so much from churches to cider but let's cross first to peter alan lvc's reporter in paris

2:04:47of how is this being covered in the french media and reminders this was a sort of personal mission of Emmanuel Macron wasn't it pita good morning it wasn't it good morning the biggest selling newspaper in france is called west france and it has the headline today d-day jayday as they say in in france they say it is already the start of the british museum i think they're particularly happy hasn't been stolen yet which is what seems to be happening to most french works of art over here at the moment over the summer but it is a very exciting prospect for the french one thing to bear in mind which is very interesting is that it's really quite a marginalized work of art in france simply because it is out in britney buyer is 170 miles from paris quite hard to get to only about 400 000 people a year actually go to visit it whereas in britain we're looking at potentially anything up to about a million people looking at it over the next year so that's

2:05:48something that people are taking a lot of interest in at the moment again if you look at the figures for the Mona Lisa 8 million people going visit it in paris every year venus tamilo the same so this is a really great chance to put this great symbol in a way of france and certainly a french history in the eyes of the world because this is in london that's a strange argument about that but a huge excitement here and they love to be showing off this great masterpiece and do we know why was it so important for miss you mecheral he has a massive sense of history he has a great grandfather who was a british tommy in the battle of the psalm he's often spoke about himself and brygit visiting britain in their early days of their relationship he said they used to go to london and visit all the museums so it's a great personal interest in britain and british culture as there is always in france there are political differences always they economic differences of

2:06:52course but culturally the french absolutely adore britain they love the pop music they love literature they love british films and they love art as well british art so this is real where giving something back but it is very personal to a man your macon no doubt about that at all find a question for you in just a moment and i've asked you so many things down the years but i've not asked you this before the tapestry offers a story for england the narrative is dark severing of limbs rape animal and human torture people fleeing with children from burning buildings the work is in some senses appalling it makes it so exceptional it runs across 58 scenes passages tapestries give me any number you like between one and 58 lastly Peter and prefer for being English rather than in french what in 58 what but any number you like between one and 15 oh one okay a seven number seven is the scene here we go how old makes it to france but is instantly captured by guy of puncture vassal of William Duke of Normandy when William learns of this he demands that how we brought him the scene should in fact be read from right to left as

2:07:55Williams nights arrived in guys court that scene seven Peter Allen lbc's report in Paris stat thanks beater straight to henry riley lbc's reporter at the british museum well crowds gathering henry morning they are good morning at 19 minutes away from the bear tapestry finally opening two ticket holders this return to the uk two months ago today nearly a thousand years after it was made it returned in the dead of night on the 10th of july and it's insured by the uk treasury for eight hundred million pounds during this loan now people are starting to snake around great russles street and central london right by the british museum and these are people of course with tickets the exhibition is sold out until the next batch go on sale for 2027 they go on sale in august and i've been speaking with some of the keen beans first in the queue i think just to see it in person and the way it's laid out and the scope and scale of it will just be incredible and turn to see it on the opening day as well even more say well we get this chance again really so i thought must come and see it now i mistook and calm and sort of

2:08:59kicked myself over that one so i thought right i'm not going to miss this one yeah and then after this i might go and see the the copies as well that are in this country i work at west minster abby so to see west minster abby on the tapestry in person on the opening day is an amazing thing to do just the history just having it in england for the first time what's not to love my wife went online on the day the tickets came out and waited an hour and was just lucky to get tickets for the half-tenth slot on the first day you're only allowed 40 minutes as your time slot are you hopeful you can see the whole 70 meters within 40 minutes yes i think so i think a slow just um scoop down the headline it shouldn't take 40 minutes we flew in when the day before yesterday and we were going to see the bayotepistry in bay ur because we're also going to france but then we discovered it's here i saw the bayotepistry before about 20 years ago in bay ur it would be good to see it in a different setting it's longer this time so laid out as opposed to horses laid down laid out as opposed to

2:10:01up and around in the down room yeah but this time i brought my glasses and i see the bloody time and nick i mentioned the viewing time over the weekend there was some controversy because some of those were the first tickets so staff volunteers community groups they got early access but some actually turned away because of others not adhering to their 40-minute time slots the museum said they're not gonna enforce it but they're relying on people's good british will to only do 40 minutes before i let you go Henry Riley i said to our colleague Peter Allen we see the severing of limbs animal and human torture people fleeing burning buildings with their children there are effectively 58 scenes or tapestries give me a number if you would between one and 58 he made it easy for you with a seven so i'm gonna go with 51 now you can hear me turn in the face why would you do that 51 here that's why i don't like him here we go here we see the famous shield wall formation as the english soldiers huddled together to create a defensive wall of wooden shields it was a tradition and a successful defensive tactic used by both Viking warriors and the Anglo-Saxons and one final

2:11:06question these of course are the annotations that are written on the tapestry but and they've been translated the language in which the annotations are written on the tapestry Henry Riley is it middle english latin french or anglo-normon ace reporter he's right i'm asking you middle english latin french or anglo-normon the the annotations as they're called which language the what's the second one you say middle english latin french or anglo-normon um middle english here we go put it in the dark this is the same as the spirit leveler isn't it you've failed again it's latin Henry Riley 25 times in your latin homework please tonight lbc's Henry Riley reporting to the British Museum after the news we come back to our conversation about AI Nick for worry at breakfast call o3456060973 and it's called a nip you will be with me moment just a couple of the texts and emails that are coming in a mile says a i's the next industrial revolution

2:12:11but humans do have one advantage we can turn the power off steven and liver poor say my tiff just pull out the plug uh graham and bushy if the great a i it will be great if a i kills us all by 2030 it means we won't be forced to buy an electric car by them that is of course that extraordinary mandate that effectively is hanging over that industry let's bring dip in seven weeks into the conversation are you fearful of AI if so how fearful good morning morning it's a pleasure to talk to you thanks for coming on no i'm not i'm not fearful i don't think it's a killer soul no it could not intend to make it maybe it would take longer than five years um look Nick i use it every day constantly for research strategy planning automating talks what what line are you in sir i'm marketing an advertising right um so i mean i i've even built my own AI platform talk to meps so i'm not anti-liar at all i i think it's extraordinary um but the thing for me is i use it as a thinking partner not not as a replacement for judgment and i think that word judgment is key

2:13:13and also Nick just quickly i think there's a real immediate risk for economic and social disruption because jobs are changing faster than people can retrain so entry-level jobs are disappearing from my end when i started as a junior copywriter people get AI to write the copy now so that that's my concern and i think we should just keep talking about this this word judgment i think that's absolutely key hang on if if if everyone's using AI to write the copy it's it's roughly going to be the same theme isn't there a real danger that it would just be copy cat copy if you say what i'm saying well yeah i see exactly what you're saying and you're absolutely right and when you go on to the social platforms some of the professional social platforms and i i won't meant no the names now actually have a button that says AI slot but this is that i think this is this is so key everyone trusts the AI to write something without framing what they want written properly and that's why i keep coming back to judgment AI can do everything you want it to do

2:14:16but you still need to be the person that says this is not good enough this is not in my words you need to make it better you need to make it sound more like me so for my sector it's becoming that everyone becomes a copywriter because you have to know what to tell it in order to give you something back but then you still have to judge it which means the role of the editor the judge the md or whatever it's going to be even more paramount importance because he's she has got to make the right call correct absolutely correct and it's right and interestingly i read and forgive me if this is incorrect i read a year or so ago but they're and i'm not going to be very careful not to mention countries there was a specific country that was using AI to help rewrite its laws because its laws were so old and archaic and that is wonderful and frightening in equal measure finally how was your sensing that you've been in the business for a few years what was the biggest change to your professional life with the introduction of AI

2:15:19oh what a fantastic question for me personally having launched my own my own app it would be automation duck can i give you two points automation and secondly because i'm an executive creative director my struggle is that everyone has forgotten about the idea and the idea is what owns the real estate in the consumers minds and gets them to purchase your product that's my fear the advertising is becoming rubbish what specific area do you work on or is it very broad duck canvas that you have it's it's very broad at the moment i've actually launched my own AI 48 hours ago so i'm i'm i'm up at 3 30 every morning i'm rushing but i love it i think it's fascinating but i will keep saying that word judgment good luck nip hovy goes well thank you Chris is in vertanontren the story you want to say about it eight i Chris good morning oh hi Nick i had a conversation with my son he's just taking his GCSEs and he's just started close today so he's 16 is he six yeah because i'm too in my head it goes well what's the

2:16:22setting of college so he's so here here we come to the point here's we have a conversation over some and he's like dad i don't know what to do should i do you know going to um to get a social media i'm right son no you you need a trade behind you you need what do you do Chris if you're my masking i've spoken to you previously so i was an ex prison officer right on the next prison officer and then i went into trying hdv's oh that's right maybe now yeah so on you go yep yep so you've got a trade yep for now but the thing is um we're not thinking about the younger generation our kids you know we're not thinking about what future you know holds for them so your boy says what shall i do shall i go into social media and you said i don't think so son because what just just so basically a i is it's not just about it's a i is about it's thinking it's about it can go into manufacturing it can go into anything in your house we already have it in the house many factories have got robots when you know and the a i in the factories the factory workers are

2:17:26losing their jobs and you know one thing that a i can't do is become a electrician or a plumber no no no no no no no exactly so i'm not going to drive your truck either by the way i think it's about 10 years so what's the lad doing so he's doing it so i advise him to do plumbing yeah so he's he's going to do a three four year prison plumbing really that college and unfortunately my daughter's gone into she's starting uni and going into nursing so she's going that with a massive student loan well yeah we want good air today no let's not do that today um will there ever be a i nurses i don't would there be no no no we all need that we all need that personal touch that personal care don't we you're not in a few years could be making some serious money plumbing and good luck to them plumbers pulling some decent cash you know that i'm sure it's it's about having a secure future isn't it and you know for his family

2:18:27when he gets older but it's all about all right okay thanks to that Chris i just want to clear up one thing um if you were listening earlier in the week about my views on the rm l i now there's a video circulating which seems to indicate that i'm critical of the brave men and women you've not been listening i've been giving money to the rn l i as did my late mom i don't normally come back to these matters go go spend my whole life footing in corrections but because of the bravery of the people involved this is what i actually said you gov polling says the majority of voters think small boat migrants why do they call them small but they're not small poets they're taking about the well about four coach loads of people anyway uh these boat crossings should be detained of course that's not the legal roots up with the other the cio of amnesty international is talking about i wonder if you like me support the rn l i and make sure that i give some money each year and possibly you go to a bring-and-by sale at the lifeboat station or whatever you do or you buy their gallingers or diaries do you want your money for the rn l i to go to what is now looks like it's

2:19:30going to be a taxi service bringing people legally into the country of course you want to save people i get it but when you know that the tactic of the french is if we're talking about this crossing 70 miles get them 35 miles in a smidgen across the channel then radio over to border force or an l i an out will come the brave men and women of our low-fought lifeboat teams each year i make sure someone as i remember my late mom made sure every evening towards sardine when she's started to give it old she made sure that check went off after your grandparents she made sure her check was sent off i hope they cashed it by the way i don't know if they've been did i've went off to the rn l i i do it by different means but and again it's not there for they've got to respond to whatever the shout is but do you want to raise funds for what is now turning into effectively a taxi service and this is the first time and hopefully the last time because i james tom we could spend our lives responding what people put online but because the rn l i is so important to me and by the way i'm happy to say i've got a very small boat and they've

2:20:30helped me in the past i wanted to put that right that's it i'm not going to do more about politicians i don't know more about anybody else but they are in line incredibly brave and i have been i would suggest misrepresented if not grossly misrepresented so please understand my position about that tremendous service okay enough let's move on but actually we move on by going back some 25 years tomorrow we understand that there has been a plane crash on the southern tip of Manhattan you're looking at the world trade center this just in you were looking at obviously a very disturbing life shot there that is the world trade center and that's the moment it happened that was cnn breaking the news of those terror attacks yes it's 25 years ago tomorrow we've got extensive coverage and one of the stories will bring you is from a survivor bill marn here is talking about the moment he was in one of the towers the plane hitting the second tower we were all standing there at about that time the plane hit our building and it blew out the elevator doors and knocked us

2:21:31all to the ground and just kind of smoking debris it really was the great escape for that man and you hear that story i'm planting more besides tomorrow as of today you can listen to the show back foot back on our free global player app or the obc app where you can also stay up to date with the latest news videos and opinion download the official obc app for free from your app store now that's it james o'Brien is waiting the other side of the news here on lbc i will be back with you tomorrow morning from seven big times day safe this has been a global production