Wales end Six Nations losing streak as Dave Reddin defends WRU changes

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1:01Explore vibrant seasonal flavors, like their trending mango yuzu shantilly cake. Great for brunch or an after dinner treat. Speaking of brunch, check out their devil digs, cold press juices, and more. Spring is in bloom now at Whole Foods Market. Hello, welcome to the ScrumFide podcast. From an empty principality stadium, it's around quarter to eight, and Wales Winning feels good. Doesn't it James Hick, Garrett Griffiths? That's been a while coming. Law on it, but it feels amazing to get that win. And you could tell the almost relief just from supporters and players, and what was great about it? It was pretty convincing as well. Wasn't it, I think, obviously first half with all Wales, and then, as I said earlier, that first 10 minutes to the second half, I think just sealed the game. It was 21 nil, and then obviously Dan Edwards scored to make a 28 nil drop gold 31 nil, and it was game over, and I know it came back into it. It was always going to have their purple patch, but what a performance. Yeah, 31 17, the final score.

2:02It was Italy that ended their 36 match losing streak in the six nations here back in 2022. Now Wales have done the same with a 15 match losing streak in this competition. The same fixture in front of a rugby public today that were desperate to soak up every drop of what they were seeing, because they haven't seen many days, like these in recent times, but I don't think it was necessarily a huge surprise. I felt that belief walk an end. Yeah, the belief was there. I think the surprise element was that they were 31 nil up, because Italy weren't great against England last week, but they beat them at home, and the talk for Italy all week had been about how they wouldn't let that slip their focus. But I think it's bound to have a little bit, because that's such a big result for Italy at first when over England. And they came here and Italy looked lost, and that was a lot to do with the way Wales' performance. I can't remember quite a while. A harry in performance like Wales. We had people like L.S. Me, Lewis Riesamit,

3:04James Brotham, Alex Mann, just chasing kicks, making and forcing turnovers, which led to tries. And that was sort of the foundation. It was a bit of a cagey start, but the foundation was the actual determination of Wales, to turn over ball, put Italy in the pressure, and they crumbled, and that was because of the pressure that Wales put on it, Italy. And then, as you say, 31-0, and there was two elements to the game, Italy obviously came back with 17 points, including a very late try. But the Welsh defence in that second half, that the scrambling defence was outstanding, and it kept any chance of a complete Italy fight back. It's L.S. Me tackling Monteione in the corner. James Brotham and Joe Hawkins try saving interventions at the end. And when Italy did score, Wales made them work for it, which ended up time on the clock, which meant that there couldn't be any sort of form of, you know, some remarkable fight back. So Steve Tandy, I think, will be as pleased with that, even though they did concede three tries in international rugby, now that scene's inevitable. I think it'd be as pleased about the final 25 minutes

4:04in defence as he will about the domination they had in the first 55. Definitely. Yeah, and there will be a full podcast on Monte, so rounding up to six nations as a whole and looking at Wales in more detail. I should say we're about to be joined by Dave Redden, so when we are, we'll wrap this up. But James, when you look back at, I look back at the autumn, right? And I thought there were green shoots against, there was certainly green shoots against Argentina and New Zealand. You sort of wondered how easy that was to replicate, because a lot of it was down to scoring four tries and being very clinical. But when you look at the positives from this six nations, it feels as though the foundations are in place now. And that's perhaps the minimum standard where I should carry with them onto the summer. Yeah, I think so. And I think we were a little bit down after, obviously, the England performance and the French performance out here, and you sort of, we've taken a step backwards. But the England was probably the most disappointed performance. We didn't show anything to do in France, or obviously a quality team. But after that, we probably should have beaten Scotland,

5:05as we all know, put a great display against Ireland. And as I've got to say, defensive effort. And I think probably was changed, as we've got our fundamental basics, right, you know, Scrum has been excellent the last two, three weeks, that's given us a solid platform. And those have been meant to discipline you. You, as squeaky clean discipline wise, you've done a low teams to kick penalties and put pressure in your own half. You know, I look back, how's your different game? Cardiff, how they beat Lentz and a few weeks back. It was horrendous conditions. But they discipline was outstanding, because it didn't allow Lentz to any play in their half. And it was very similar today. And the first half, Italy, were not in the game. Men and Shale was probably at least best player. And he looked, looked it today at times. But other than that, they didn't offer anything. And I say, I was probably thinking at halftime, what González Casada's team talk at halftime, because they weren't in it first half. And they did cause whale some problems. Holding their feet a little bit more, getting outside, whales is blitzed offence. But other than that, whales held firm. And as you said, the resilience in defense, the Scramble tackles were excellent. And it continued where they left off against Ireland. The pleasing thing as well,

6:05we can stop looking at all the statistics now. 50, it was 1,090, since the last six nations win, which was against Italy and Rome. 1,491 days since the last home win in the tournament, which is against Scotland. It rolls off the town. But now I can consign them to history. And that is the great thing. And also, we'll give the confidence for whales going forward. What it won't do is it won't mask all of the issues that Welsh rugby has at the moment, which I'm sure we'll get into with Dave Redden when he joins us. Yeah, I think there is a contrast of the minute between the atmosphere, your experience, and in the stadium, and the mood in Welsh rugby as a whole, with everything that's going on outside it. So let's get the thoughts now of Dave Redden on both those things. Dave Redden has just joined us, the WIU director of rugby and elite performance. And we're going to start with a rugby on the pitch. And your assessment of the tournament as a whole, Dave, I imagine how you're feeling today.

7:05It's pretty different to how you felt after round one and round two. Yeah, obviously delighted for Steve with the performance and then the result today. But I think you've seen over the last couple of weeks and fantastic performances building as well. So the England game was obviously very tough. We got a good schooling that day. But I think this team and the management team shown incredible resilience to build through that. And I don't think anyone's forgotten. We played four of the best teams in the world in four games from the autumn through the first two of the six nations. So I'm really glad they got what they deserve today. You played a big part in a point in Steve. I imagine when you made that appointment having someone who could really connect with the players was a big part of it. Young players and experienced players at times. Have you seen he's been able to do that? I guess in the way they've been fighting for each other. Haven't they out on the pitch particularly in the last three months? I mean, the Steve is a really rare coach in his mix of abilities.

8:10So he is a connector. It's probably the foundation to everything he does. And it's a, you know, sometimes connection can sound a bit soft. You know, it can sound like it's all empathetic and everything else. But he he combines that with a really tough edge as well. So his ability to connect with individual people is as people first. And not just the 15 or the 23, but the 40, the 43 is incredible. And he he leads on that. And I think all great teams feel connected first and foremost. And when you when you connect with people individually as people that allows you to give them the tough message with it with a different level of of connection and empathy. And he's done that outstandingly well. And I think what you saw today was a group of players. In fact, I think you've seen it across this tournament. A group of players who care about each other. As well about as well as the team and their connection to the nation. And they fall out of hell for each other today.

9:10Just on Steve there. Dave, I think off she after the France and the England game, the defence commander a little bit of criticism. How much more responsibility is as Steve taken on defensively, particularly in the last three games? Because that's been a big positive for us. Yeah, no, not really any more than before. I mean, I think it was an area of emphasis for sure. I mean, Dan Liddy, it's been doing an outstanding job with the close contact skills as well. Close quarter skills inevitably because of the performances Steve's put more of an emphasis on that as an area to step up. But he hasn't he hasn't stepped in any more or noticeably changes the approach. I think what you've just seen is, you know, coaching can be a bit like back the rat at times. You're getting one thing right. And then suddenly there's something else you've got to work on. So you're constantly dining things up and down. And that's what he's been doing. Yeah. And just just an off-field step in all she's Steve Tandy, former Osprey's player, former Osprey's coach. She swung the council came out this week and said that it looks like that the Osprey's region is the one to go if any region goes. Could you share any late on that?

10:11Well, no decisions have been made on that. You know, what we've said very clearly, we need to go from four to three. We've also said clearly the next season there will be four teams. No decision has been how that four to three happens yet. So, you know, I understand what Swansea City Council have done, but that decision has not been made. And all options are open in the west in terms of who's ordered the license. Okay. So I think Dean, it's fair to say today he's great performance, but it doesn't mask anything that's going on in well-truck with the moment. It's a great performance, but there's still a lot to be shorted to. Absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, I hope days like today give people optimism and enjoying and all the rest of it, but we've got a lot to fix. And one performance doesn't, doesn't fix a system. And the system still needs to change. And so, you know, the hard realities and look, I can't imagine how difficult it will, it will be for a group of supporters to lose a club.

11:13It's going to be incredibly difficult. I have to try and stay out of the emotion and try and keep making the right decisions for the future of the game, not just this week and next week, but the next five years and next 10 years. And that means, you know, listening to what people said in consultation, which was we've got to invest in our pathways, in our academies, in our coach education, in order to build the next generation to an even higher level. And that's what we've, we've got to do as we move through this difficulty. So why do you have to lose that club? I know you were said in October, but the message doesn't seem to be getting through to a lot of people. Why do you only have to have three teams and not four? And you've got a lot of people saying there's enough money here for four sides. Tell the people why one team must go. Because really, you've just got choices to make. If I make it just an economic argument, you could have four teams and fund them about the level of the art at the moment, but then you can't do anything else. There isn't enough money to go around to do all the other things that we need to do. So, you know, the stuff that we've put on the table,

12:14there's around about 25, 28 million pounds over five years of investment into academies, into talent systems, into coach education, into psychological medical support to elevate what we've got, to be a world-class nation in those areas. So, as always, if we say we're not going to do that, we're going to put all the money into our regions so that we can have four and they can compete, then what we have to say is we're prepared to lose the benefits of all of those things. And downstream, that means our pathways is not as productive as competitive as they are in other nations, and everybody in consultation agreed. That was the area we needed to work on. So, look, I think we've always tried to be open to other ideas. You know, we've looked at three plus one and two plus one and all sorts of other things. They've all got their flaws. They're all, you know, they're all difficult options which don't deliver as well as this one that we've put on the table. What's the assessment?

13:14Sorry, sorry, guys. What's the assessment that's been done to understand the impact of perhaps losing a region? If it is the Ospreys and that, you know, be it pathways, supporters, all that sort of thing. Have you sort of had luck into that? Yeah, I mean, look, there'll be much smarter people than they've looked at it on the commercial side of things. And of course, there's no easy answer, James. I mean, it's, you know, we can't close a region and then suddenly expect everybody who's supported that region to rock up and support somebody else. You know, it would be ridiculous to think that's the case. That transition will be very difficult. And we've tried to model how quickly that might come back and the impact of having more money in that region that's remaining in the performance, improving, you know, those sort of things do mitigate it. But they will be a drop off for a period of time. But I think if we just stay in the short term and keep focusing on that, we're going to miss the long term target. And that's, you know, that's the difficult process that we're in. And, you know, I'm in a position where I have to make

14:14those difficult decisions. And whilst I empathise with the emotions of people, if I think about that, we'll never make any decisions. Because, you know, frankly, if it was Scarlett's or Osprey's or Cardiff or Dragon's, each supporter group is going to feel the same. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over one billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. So to the politicians, the supporters,

15:15the people demonstrating who say four reasons, you're saying the WIU is not budging from plan A, three teams? No, we're not. I mean, and it's because the rationale we set out right at the beginning. I mean, if you remember, I put two teams out to begin with. And that was in order that we could invest even more in the remaining two clubs and in the system. And, you know, it was clearly something that people, you know, players as much as anybody did not, did not want to entertain. So I think we've, we've compromised now to bring it to three. That compromise has some elements in it, that mean we're not quite where we were before. I professionally don't think we need to, we should go any further than that, because if we, as I said earlier, if we want to put all the money straight into the professional game and not invest elsewhere, then people have to accept there's a, there's a, there's a consequence of that further down the line, which is our pathways and all the other thing I mentioned. So you're saying you can't invest in the pathways adequately. You can't achieve alignment whilst maintaining four.

16:18Yeah, I mean, that's, it's basically, I mean, if you look at the economics at the moment, look, I'm not a counter, but I think we, we put about 30 odd million into our four regions. If you look at the RFU, they put 33 into 10 professional teams in England. I think the problem is this time last year, Abitini said you could. Yep. And so, and I think we've explained that the world's changed quite a lot since then. You know, so in terms of the economic environment. It's not just down to economic headwinds, is it? Where national insurers contributions changed last October. And you've got national insurance. You've got commercial revenue. You've had sponsorship decreases. We've had competition decreases in terms of distributions. And this is not just us. This is, this is globally. So, I was in Ireland talking to David Humphreys. All of their, all of their provinces are losing money. But the, so the full, the forecasts weren't right this time last year, when I sat down with Abitini. Well, look, I can't comment because I wasn't here,

17:20but that has to be, that's probably part of this story. Or at least the forecasts have changed, because, because, actually, the, the landscapes changed. Do you think, um, so there's a lot of backlash at the minute from clubs, ex-players, politicians, business women, hailey passons. Do you just think that it's because people don't accept change, particularly in Wales? Or do you think a lot of it is down to lack of trust? Look, I think, um, a lot of people have said to me, since I've been here, that there's been a trust issue. And I, I can feel that, and I can, I can probably understand it if I, if I zoom out and think over a longer period of time, why that might be the case. Since I've been here, I've seen a group of people in our board and our executive are just working incredibly hard to try and do the right thing for the, for the gaming wells. And, um, the issue, I think, becomes when you, when you make change, and you know, we're, you know, we're dropping a big rock in the pond, so to speak,

18:23inevitably that hurts. And it, it causes emotions. And, and people want a backlash for that. And I think people are not going to trust until they see change that works and it, and change its consistent going forwards. And I also accept that if we move through these chains, there'll probably be some people who will never accept it. You know, and I think that's just the reality when you go through change, people, some people never get there. I appreciate this may be a question for Abbotini or Richard Collier Keywood, but just on the Ospreys, do you have any idea what, why elevens plans over the Ospreys if they are to buy Cardiff? Because on that point of trust, I think people are refusing to believe that it's not the Ospreys, they're the club that I'm all spendrable. Well, look, I'm, I'm not involved in the sort of detailed negotiations on that. But, you know, what I do know is, um, that is a transparent process. They're in an exclusivity agreement. Um, these are two completely separate transactions. They're not, uh, they're not linked and there'll be a transparent process

19:25about awarding the license in the, in the West when it happens. So that's where we are with it. Dave, when you say that, do you think people believe you on the evening when you say that? I don't know. I mean, I, I can't tell you what people think. Um, I, I'm telling you what I know to be the case. So, you know, the proof is in the pudding. I think that, you know, from my perspective, um, whatever happens with these, you know, when we've gone out for, uh, for, for expressions of interest, we didn't have 30 people wanting to come by Cardiff. I think we have to be realistic here. Rugby is not an incredibly attractive business proposition. There isn't a cure people who want to, you know, lose money every year, year on year, supporting rugby. So, um, if there was a, a really wide range of, of people, you'd, you'd have more choices, but there isn't. So, while Evan was the best one as I understood it, I wasn't involved in the big process. They were the best party going forward. Now, of course, because of their situation,

20:27that causes emotions as well, and people jump to conclusions with that. Um, I, I can't speak for the detail behind that, but I do know that the process is really, is, is really transparent and professional. Do you have a time frame on when this, like you see, rock in the pond is going to happen in terms of, if it does go down to three, when, for example, offsprays, players, quarters, staff will, will nulks, obviously, I know we talk in the end of next season, but there's a lot of staff and players in, in limbo, not knowing if they can have a job in 18 months' time. So, could you give them any peace of mind, Dave? Well, look, I, I, I can't because I, I don't know yet. I mean, we'll work, everyone's working night and day to try and move this thing forward. Um, so, you know, what we've said is there are four, there are four teams next season in the competition. So, I hope that's given some stability, at least in the meantime. Like I, I appreciate it, and I know talking to, you know, some of the colleagues in clubs, how difficult it is, it's difficult to recruit people. Um, it's difficult to retain people because of the uncertainty. Honestly, if we could get it all done tomorrow and move forward,

21:27I would do it, and everyone's working as hard as possible. Um, it doesn't make it easier when you're also dealing with things like EGMs and, and, and, and legal matters. It, it consumes resource. It takes our focus away from what we should be trying to do. Just finally, for me, it's a point I keep on coming back to a really important one. You said that everyone was on board with your decision, doing the consultation, has anyone presented to you an alternative plan? And by anyone, I mean professional clubs, stakeholders, players, because, you know, I'm sure you'd agree that if people don't like what you're doing, there has to be an alternative plan. So, I'm just wondering why we haven't seen one, particularly from the regions? Yeah, I mean, when we met with the regions and we met them extensively, um, you know, I think what, what we've done is iterate our original plan all the way through as a result of listening to them. So, to, to the extent, that's, that's a new plan. Yes, we've listened and we've changed some things. In terms of a completely different plan, like, uh, I don't know, a three plus one,

22:29or a two plus one, or something like that. No, no one's, no one's come up with that. Um, no one else has put something forward that's, that's credible or massively different. I've heard lots of really sort of simplistic arguments, you know, we should just have four teams and, I think I heard Stephen Jones in the, in the paper and I thought it was nonsense. It was just, it was for the birds, you know. So, no one's shown you this is how we can do it with four and improve the pathways. No, and, and look, you know, we, um, I think people from the outside, it all seems really easy. You know, the, it's easy to say, well, the WIU should just cut resources or sell the hotel, or do this or do that, that I've worked in lots of big governing bodies. I've worked in a bit in corporate as well. WIU is very lean. It is not splashing the cash all over the place. I can assure you that, uh, the hotel makes money that goes back into rugby. It's profitable. It didn't cost, we didn't put any money into it to, to acquire it. It makes money every year that's going into rugby.

23:32So, um, you know, people would just, it's, it's easy from the outside of criticise. It's much harder to be on the inside and try and make something that works. It's complicated. These are difficult decisions. They affect people's, people's livelihoods, their lives, their families, and supporters. And, and we understand that. I don't think we would be doing our jobs. Um, if we just listen to all the emotion and said, yeah, you're right. You know, and we know you want for and here's for because there are massive consequences. And I don't think future generations are for the givers for that. Dave, you, um, you've been in the job six months now. You said on the TV, it felt like a year. Have you ever thought, this isn't for me. Why am I putting myself through this, this Welsh rugby? Are they not helping themselves? The infighting? I can't make a difference here. Have you thought I'll go do something else? I'm not more than once a week. No, it's, I mean, it's, I mean, look, I, I knew coming in that I, I have a sort of a strange habit. I want to run towards burning buildings, so to speak. And I like the challenge of trying to work it out.

24:35Um, so I knew it would be difficult. Um, um, um, it is difficult, you know, it's highly charged. It's highly emotionally charged. Um, as you've seen today, this, this place, this country, this amazing passion for rugby is a super strength. And when you're trying to make change, it's also something that, that can get in a way. Um, you can't have one without the other, you know, I think if we, if we want people to turn the passion down, we lose that this super strength on the field. We've got to work through that carefully, and empathetically, as we go through this change process. And, you know, this change curve, uh, starts with denial. And I think we've probably got through that bit. We're in the bit called resistance. And there are a few people starting to creep into acceptance. But we're always, we're in this, in this period where people are oscillating back with them forwards. And I think that's what we're seeing with the EGM, you know, with, with, with some of the other things. That's people resisting. No, we don't want this. It's not right to try and find another way. If there was another way, I think we'd have done it already.

25:36I genuinely think with all the conversations we've had, the, the, the brains we've had on it, the, you know, the, the people have been involved. I think we've found it already. Could the EGM derail the plan? Um, look, I, I, I really hope not. I mean, it, I think, um, look, if you took it to its worst possible extreme, extreme, you know, possibly, but, um, you know, I would really hope not because, um, everyone's talking about uncertainty. So if we took it to the, the worst it could possibly be and everything blows up and stops, I'm not sure how that helps anybody. You know, you then got to help a completely new leadership team coming in. That, you don't snap your fingers and everything suddenly happens. And it's all, all okay next season, the season after. There'll be a hiatus. There'll be a period of time when people are readjusting. There'll be a whole load of catching up with what's actually going on, and what they can do. And we could be a year or two down the line before anything radically changes. Do you think you're going to get this through? I think we will do, um, yeah, I genuinely do.

26:37I think, um, we're all in a place where we recognize that, um, we need forward progress, uh, quickly, rather than, you know, maybe keeping shooting for the optimal stuff all the time. We've got to, we're going to make some forward grounds. I mean, for next season, in some, you know, and having a plan for how we get to three is, is our sole focus. That doesn't mean we're throwing away all the investments I've spoken about. But, you know, we've already compromised on a number of things to try and make this happen. And I think we'll get there, um, you know, I hope we're going to get there in the next month or so. Do you think, do you have the belief in your ability, Richard Collieke with an Abitini? Because you're essentially the three at the top of the organization that you can get this through and put, you know, get what you just said, trust back in Welch Rugby, and put you have the ability to do that, the three of you. Yeah, I think I do, I do think we do, yes. I think we've all got different roles in this process. Um, we've, we've all got to, but we've all got to collectively work together. And I think, you know, although, you know, maybe we're the most high-profile,

27:41there's a lot of, there's a whole team, the executive team, putting their shoulders to the wheel to try and make this go forward and go faster. I also think there's some brilliant people in our, you know, regions who, who want to, don't want some certainty, they want to be able to move forward, they want to be able to do things. So I do think we can, once we can get around the table and move things forward, I do think we can get there and I think we will. Just to bring it back to the, um, on field rugby to finish, some of Welch's most prominent players will be playing over the bridge, next season, Zoe Lake, Aaron Wainwright, Jack Morgan's obviously injured Thomas Williams. Do you think in the short term, that's the best place for them and why? I think for, for those couple of guys, um, said, said, Dowie and Jack, I think it's the stage of their career, where that probably is the right place for them. I think it's a, um, we've seen over the years lots of Welsh players who've left these shores and, and, and had great experiences. I don't think we, we should ever try and have a monopoly that the only place you can be the best in the world is here.

28:41I think it's useful that people go in and experience things, but what we're trying to build going forwards is a system, uh, and a connected and aligned system that means that people want to play here, not just because they're Welsh and they're connected and it's where they're from, but because it's the best place to play and it's the best place for their development. I mean, they may have, Jack Morgan may have wanted to stay. There are some players who choose a different experience, a different culture, there are those who don't. Look, I, I think, um, people will make decisions at different stages their career for different reasons, uh, sometimes financial, sometimes new challenge, sometimes different competition, um, you know, and I think that will always be the case. And we, you know, I'm not going to say we're going to encourage that. We, we always want them to, to have a choice. But I think in order for that to be a legitimate choice, we've got to build a system that's competitive. You know, I don't want people who just want to be in Wales because it's where I'm from,

29:42if the environment's not as good as somewhere else where they can progress faster, because in order for us to catch up faster as a Welsh national team, we need those players having that day-to-day exposure of brilliant training environments, where it's, it's super competitive and we need them playing at the top levels of competitions, the latter stages of, of playoffs. And at the moment, we haven't been able to give them that. So that's why things need to change. There's anything in place for, I'm just thinking from a younger generation, 15, 16, 17 year olds who were looking to go to college at the moment, is there any certainty you can give sort of parents and those sort of kids who are wanting to go over the border and not stay and have their college in, in Wales, for example? Is that a concern for you that so many kids were able to go? I think that's one of those parents, by the way. Yeah, exactly, that I'm speaking from experience, you know, and I think there's a lot of uncertainty with parents, they think, well, there's so much uncertainty in Welsh rugby. The best thing for my trail is to go over the border. Yeah, look, I do understand that and I think, I think you've heard us say part of the plan going forward is to connect those things up so that we offer a connected set of experiences

30:49for players. So the national academy concept, you know, connects all of our best talent together, the player development centres underneath that, make it more local. And then we've got educational grants, both the secondary and tertiary education to try and do exactly as you say to turn someone's head so they don't go to millfield or to Clifton. You know, there might be a clang dovry or there might be somewhere else in Wales and we keep them here. And the same goes for our university too, so it's very much part of the plan. And as I said, we want to get to the start line so we can start to get some of these things moving because until they're moving, they don't start creating benefit and we just were kicking the benefit down the road. And I don't think we can afford to do that for much longer. Dave Riding, thank you very much for giving us your time this evening. Thank you. Right, that was Dave Riding. I guess, guys, there is a slight difference in his role between what he's doing and what Abitini and Richard Collier Keywood are responsible for. Two people we have and heard from.

31:49No, he is the, I say director who had been head of elite performance. So his main issues are on the pitch. I suppose the, what has been a bit sort of odd has been that he has been involved a little bit more in the off the field stuff just because Abitini was away with her illness last summer. So, um, he has, how did changes direction kind of happened coincided with when he arrived? It did. So he has been that, but he is employed to do, to improve matters on the field. So, you know, you had some questions there. We gave him some questions about, you know, with the WIU high-o-archie about what Abitini and Richard Collier Keywood would do and he would say, well, I wasn't directly involved in that. But the essence of it was, uh, and it's sort of echoing what Richard Collier Keywood and Abitini have both said this week. They ain't changed, they are not changing those three team proposals. Despite all of the, um, the issues that they have, the legal action from the Swansea Council, despite the, the extraordinary general meeting, which will be held in in the next month or so, despite all the politicians saying that, um,

32:51they should stick with four teams and, you know, criticising the WIU for what they've done, despite Swansea Council claiming that they've been told that the Ospreys will be the team that is going, which the WIU continually say, um, hasn't happened, even though the Swansea Council have tried to produce minutes this week, which say that they were told that, you know, we, despite all of that, they are sticking to their plan of three teams. Um, that's not going to be to the liking of people listening to this. A lot of people, but they are, they say they're not for turning. So, um, it's going to be a difficult, you know, we have the euphoria of this victory, but it's going to be a difficult few weeks and months for Welsh rugby as it sort of addresses that and how it actually, um, how the, whether they get it through and how people react to that. Yeah, I think there still be a lot of uncertainty, a lot of chat, because there was no time frame or clarity around which region, even though there's a lot of chat around the Ospreys, there's still more clarity after our conversation, really, in terms of which region is a guide. I don't know if you read into it any other way. No, he says not and he claims that the process of the Cardiff and

33:54the WIU 11, the Ospreys own is buying Cardiff is a separate process and they keep saying that, I'm not sure everybody is buying into that, but that's what they keep saying. It's two separate processes. They haven't decided, but, you know, it's very much the region, the Ospreys, and there are sort of fear that fear that they're under threat and it's very much the Swansea politicians and the Ospreys fans who were vehemently against this cutting region and losing, you know, probably mainly because they fear it's going to be them. So yeah, there'll still be a lot of questions from that, you know, it's the first time we've heard from Dave Reddyn to be first since November, you know, he's come on, he's done an interview on the BBC after the game as well in terms of the rugby. So there's a lot gone into that, but there are a lot of questions as well, still need to be answered. And as I said, the next month to six weeks, next couple of months, they're still going to be very hard for World Rugby, despite what we've seen here today. Yeah, the questions, the coverage will continue. It was a fitting time to speak today, Reddyn, to round off the championship, but I think we can allow ourselves to enjoy this evening.

34:58James Hirk is sort of looking at your clock because you really want to watch the England game, don't you? You still want to start now? Five minutes. I got feeling you may be going to miss most of the first time, but James, Gary, thanks for joining me this evening, and we will have a much longer podcast for you in your feeds, rounding up this explanations and perhaps analysing the match in a bit more detail with Scott Baldwin and Alex Baywater on Monday. But for now, Tara. This podcast is sponsored by Pocket Hose. I got to tell you, being a homeowner, there's so many things you have to think about all the time. For example, I have to replace my hoses every single year because they're weak. They get tangled and there's kinks. Then I found the Pocket Hose Ballistic. This is the upgrade I've been looking for for a long time, man. It's reinforced with a liquid crystal polymer used in bulletproof vests. You know what that means? No kinks, it's not going to get tangled. It also comes with this pocket pivot, which gives you total freedom of movement, and the spigot has like a 360 degree rotation, which is pretty cool. There's also this upgraded UV

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