Vikings want to trade Greenard?!?!?! (Part 1)

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1:02Download today. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here. The show is always presented by FanDuel and Goodness gracious everybody. We got a lot to discuss. From the rumor mill today, we've got a big Jonathan Grenard news item that we're going to dive into first and then Kyler Murray. The reports are out that he's going to be released and there's a tweet right now from Ian Rappaport, who says that the Vikings are the team to watch to land Kyler Murray. And if you've been watching the show, you know that this is something that I have advocated really from day one is Kyler Murray to the Vikings. We will dive a little deeper into that. I put out my article at purple insider dot football on the case for Kyler Murray. If you want to read that, well, you are watching along and we'll get to your comments.

2:03A big day. We've got Daniel Jones news, a surprise retirement in the NFL that would normally be the biggest news of the day, but there's so much else going on. So let's get right into it, Jonathan Grenard. I did not see this coming that Jonathan Grenard will be part of the conversation for how the Vikings are going to create cap space. So Adam Schaefter in the middle of the day, here I am without walking the dog thinking that there's not going to be any big news items necessarily coming out. And he drops this on us. The Vikings are now open to trading proble ed rusher Jonathan Grenard. They would like to keep Grenard, but they also have salary cap issues they're working through that have led to trade conversations and adding to this was Albert Breer, who said the Viking situation with Jonathan Grenard is a bit complex. Grenard is seeking a market correction to his contract, per sources.

3:04He's due $19 million and would like a raise Minnesota is comfortable with him at his current numbers. The team views him as one of the best players and won't just let him go. But if someone comes in with a big offer, then a deal is there to be had. Now the reason that this is so surprising to me that they would even consider a Jonathan Grenard trade is because of how important he has been to this team over the last two years. I know the sack numbers were down, but anybody who watched as you guys all did or even if you just looked at the numbers a little bit beyond just sacks, which we know can bounce up and down his pressure rate, his past rush win rate, all those things were consistent with what Jonathan Grenard has been in the past. And you would assume that a bounce back season would be coming, plus they also played a lot of running and scrambling quarterbacks in 2000 and 25. And I think that that hurt everybody's ability to rack up their sack numbers, but Grenard

4:09is in his prime and is I think one of the 12 to 14 best past rushers in the NFL. And then what we also saw from Grenard last year, especially really starting in training camp was that he took on a real leadership role of this team, got a C on the chest and was one of the vocal leaders and it was out there in training camp every day, pushing guys. And I think there's a ton of respect for Grenard from the coaching staff inside the room, Brian Flores. And when you think about that, Ed rushing position to have Grenard and Vin Ginkel and Dallas Turner rotating that was the one position that we were talking about. Well, you don't really need to discuss that in the draft. Ed rusher is set. There's a lot of other stuff that we could certainly talk about for positions in the draft that they might need to look into, but Ed rusher was all set. And then now you'd start saying, well, actually, if they trade him away, then Vin Ginkel is on the back end of his career and contract.

5:11And you've got Dallas Turner and literally nothing else past that. So why would they consider trading Jonathan Grenard? This feels much bigger than just, hey, he needs a raise and they are comfortable with his current number. If you compare his production in terms of quarterback pressures, win rate and even sacks over the last three seasons, you could definitely put him up there as a second tier past rusher in the NFL. Your first tier is freak guys who just blow away the NFL. I mean, that's Miles Garrett, that's Max Crosby, that's Aiden Hutchinson. But right below that is someone like Jonathan Grenard. And the fact that this year he was playing through some injury, but still was doing a good job while he was battling this old bleak. And they finally shut him down at the end of the year because why risk any sort of injury. But he's somebody that has been very durable for them has been on the field in 2024.

6:15He's playing basically every single snap out there, which was a lot for sure for him. But I mean, he's somebody who's going to give you 50 snaps a game and be out there. Not somebody that you want to part ways with. So why would they potentially consider doing this? One thing that came to mind right away for me was, oh, is the competitive rebuild back? Is this another competitive rebuild season now for the Vikings? Are they looking at now the quesit deflomence is gone, trying to get their salary cap situation back on track, trying to get their spending back on track. And then also it really stood out to me the other day that Rob Brzynski said, I think this was when he was doing his sit down with the Vikings. I believe you build through the draft and then retaining your core players. It was like, okay. So is this going to be a shift now to stockpiling as much draft capital as they possibly can

7:22rather than do this approach where they give away a lot of draft picks for win now type of players, which we've seen them do in recent years when you're acquiring guys like, you know, TJ Hawkinson through a trade or the number of other players that they've brought in through trades. If they were to move out Jonathan Grinard, that would be a shift to now we're going to stockpile as much draft capital as possible. We're not going to hand out these gigantic contracts right now until those players are drafted and developed and then it's time to pay them rather than going outside the building looking for free agents and taking swings at guys that other teams have decided that they didn't want, which I mean, I still think built a pretty darn good roster for the Vikings over the last couple of years and Grinard is one of the biggest hits in free agency of probably the past five years, but if that's the way that they want to do it, if the wills put Rob Brasinski in charge

8:24to basically have someone come in and say, all right, we're going to do some real accounting here. We're not going to just spend all this crazy amounts of cash. We're not going to sacrifice the next five years of the salary cap or whatever it might be in order to jam everything into 2026. That's kind of what this suggests is that they are taking a more long term approach. Now, that doesn't mean tanking. You can as they've shown live in the middle and I would even say that a team like the Seattle Seahawks did live in the middle and then was able to finally break through after doing what drafting and developing and hitting and retaining a lot of their talent. That's how they got there. It's not that it's impossible to build through free agency and New England certainly did it this year around Drake May, but it's not easy to do. It is a lot easier if you have a stockpile of draft picks and you do it like Chicago, you do it like Detroit. Now those teams had to tank. We

9:29know the Vikings don't want to do that, but can you at least get those players in the middle of the first round, get more draft picks and get to the point where you're building up this roster of players that are cost effective. So then you can go in and add final pieces. If that's the shift, then they've got some stuff to go through the next couple of years with the number of expensive players in the amount of cash and the amount of money that they spent and they might be trying to get ahead of that rather than facing that down a total rebuild and a total tear down after 2026. So this is not what I expected. What I expected was the Vikings to in 2026 take every amount of cash and capital and draft stock that they could muster up and push it all the middle of the table and say we're going to take one more shot at this because that was really what they aim to do going back to the original competitive rebuild was to have it all pushed to the

10:33middle of the table in 2025 and 2026. There's even a quote from quacy Adolfo Menta last year. I think he told Jeremy Fowler that they were looking at kind of a three year type of window with this core and I remember writing about it like what's the real window does it actually get to 2000 and 27 in the answer was I didn't think so. I thought it could get through 2026. But now if they trade Jonathan Grenard, there's a bit of a shift there to you're going to have your older core and your star players like your Jefferson, your Darisaw and so forth, assuming health. But then you're going to be bringing in a younger group of drafted players and you're not going to be going into free agency and getting seven different free agents to fill this spot, this spot, this spot and this spot. And you might have positions on the field where you're either looking for somebody to take a big step forward or a rookie playing or somebody that you went into free agency

11:36and maybe only spent $2 million on maybe instead of talking about this safety or that corner or that running back that are the top free agents. We might end up talking about guys that we haven't even really heard of or are, hey, this guy's 34 years old and he's going to come in and fill this spot for one year to kind of bridge them to the next guy. That again is not really what I had had anticipated. Now with Grenard, there is a conversation for sure to be had of should you just sign him to a contract extension because well Dallas Turner did take a big step forward last year and especially down the stretch when he was playing Grenard's role. He was very impressive and his pressure rate was good. His past rush success in terms of PFF grade was good. I'm talking about the second half of the season and then the sack production turned out to be pretty good as well. So I think that, you know, he's locked in as someone who's going to be a part of the team.

12:40But when you look around the league, you see a lot of teams that have rotations on the defensive line, rotations at the edge position, rotations on the interior D line. And if they trade Grenard and they cut a hard grave and maybe even part ways with Jonathan Allen on a June first cut, which would create more cap space. I mean, you're talking about now. Okay. Van Ginkle Turner, Jalen Redmond, Levi Drake, Rodriguez. And what else? I mean, that's pretty much it for your D line. And now you're going to have to have players coming in young players. You're going to have to draft guys. You're going to have to get some veterans to just fill spots. You're going to have undrafted free agents who have been developing behind the scenes. Maybe have to play next year. I mean, that's that sounds like more of a rebuilding type of thing than it does 18 that's pushing all the chips to the middle of the table to try to win in 2026. And maybe they're saying to Brian Flores, well, we gave you a heck of a lot of money to come back and make this thing work and find

13:45those guys. But I think that would be way more challenging without Jonathan Grenard. If they were to move on from Grenard, anything less than a second round pick would be bad. Because I mean, you're talking about a really good player. And already I saw probably 15 different reporters or analysts or fans from other teams being like, this guy makes a lot of sense for our team. There should be at least half of the NFL giving the Minnesota Vikings a call about Jonathan Grenard. I mean, I think that they should aim even higher, but it's hard to get first round picks away from teams. Now there is something that they could do if they really wanted to go down the road, which would be to trade Jonathan Grenard for something like a 2026 third and a 2027 first from a needy team. That might be something that you try to work out is instead of this draft, because teams are more hesitant to trade their immediate draft capital, get more for 2027 when you

14:53might be talking about needing to draft a quarterback, depending on how things play out. But I still think that they have a good enough core on defense with Grenard in there that can you work something out, but normally by the time it reaches Adam Schefter's tweet, they are taking the blowhorn and put it out there to everybody. We want to trade Jonathan Grenard. And that is quite a surprise and would really put the onus on to Dallas Turner. Okay, prove that that big step you took was a really big step. But man, even, you know, Van Ginkgo last year dealt with some serious injury issues. I mean, he had the problems with the neck and he came back against Cincinnati. And then he had to, you know, after that, then, you know, go back on the injury. It wasn't I R, but then it was injured again and missed a few games and then came back and played very well. But I mean, there's, there's issues there with Van Ginkgo and his history of injuries. So you

15:55would be almost forced to consider drafting someone at the edge rush or position, whether that's even in the first round. I mean, that changes kind of everything. Maybe the second round that, you know, it really does because that spot is so enormous that you would have to think about that even at number 18. And I have not been really considering that position at all with the 18th overall pick. So now that's in play. One ice coffee. 99 cents, please. For real? No way. One ice coffee. 99 cents, please. For real? No way. Hmm. What a deal. Your new morning groove. Ice coffee from McDonald's, any size for just 99 cents to 11 a.m. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Suffering from dry, tired, irritated eyes, don't let dry eyes win. Use sustain pro. It hydrates,

16:57restores and protects dry eyes for up to 12 hours. Sustained pro, triple action, dry eye relief. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Manus is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I could follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. This is Mike Voilo of Lexicon Valley. And I'm Bob Garfield. Are you one of those people who sometimes uses words? Do you communicate or acquire information with, you know, language? Hey, us too! So, join us on Lexicon Valley to true over the history culture and many mysteries of English, plus some ice cracks. Find us on one of those apps where

18:00people listen to podcasts. But I don't think that it's the craziest idea I've ever heard. Just it really shows that they are shifting what their mentality is in comparison to, you know, years past. So, yeah, I mean, it feels like much more of a, you know, competitive rebuild type of thing. And I did not think that that was how the Vikings were going to approach this off season. So, I love to get your guys thoughts on if the Vikings were to trade Jonathan Grinard. I think in the long term, it does fit, it does fit to get another draft pick, move on from some salary, create some space for the future, don't put as much cash. See, the cash thing is really important here because, well, rightfully, I think people touted the amount

19:00that the will spent last year, like, hey, this ownership is a plus. They get a plus from the players. They love the way that the wills run their franchise. And you should appreciate the fact that they were willing to spend all the money that they spent. But at the same time, if I'm sitting in Mark Wilf seat, I'm probably saying myself, hey, guys, we gave you all the money in the world last year. Let's tighten the purse drinks. Let's pull it back a little bit. You guys got your chance with this money. Now, let's, let's be a little more rational here about the way that we approach the off season. So now you're talking about, can you split the difference if you trade Jonathan Grenard? Can you split the difference between being a competitive team with the core that you have, finding this young group that you're trying to bring in this off season, getting a few shrewd moves in free agency and still making a case for yourself in the NFC North and still making the

20:03playoffs. Here's another thing to me that this says, the fact that they're considering trading Jonathan Grenard is that the idea that Kevin O'Connell was suddenly taking over the reigns of the franchise, which is what I thought. And I think what everybody else probably thought, which was like, hey, I mean, this is now, you know, Kevin O'Connell's team and he's going to be calling all the shots and everything else. I don't think that's true. I think that Rob Bersinski, well, he is the acting GM and has not been named the official GM. And maybe he never will be named the official GM. And maybe he'll just run this off season. It is pretty clear if you're considering trading a player of the caliber of Jonathan Grenard that the willves have their marching orders for Rob Bersinski. And he's going to execute them. And Kevin O'Connell and Brian Flores go figured out, go figure it out, go find the next Jonathan Grenard, go find somebody in

21:07the draft, go find some of your players that are underappreciated underrated like they did with Eric Wilson and Isaiah Rogers next year. But you're not going to get this, hey, Kevin O'Connell, I'm going to save my job by doing a whole bunch of crazy stuff, trading your first round pick or trading up 10 spots or, you know, selling out the salary cap for the future, it does not sound like they are doing that. And for the long term of the Minnesota Vikings, who will continue to be a franchise after this season, this is the right thing. It is. Now I don't want to see Jonathan Grenard gone. He's a great guy in the locker room to talk to. And he's a great player to watch play football. And it certainly helps them have a chance to have their defense lead the way to get to wherever in the playoffs. So for the short term, you don't want to see something like that. But also if you've decided as a franchise that you've run it to the end of the road with this

22:07group. And now you have to start considering how you're going to shuffle pieces in and out, kind of like they did in 2023. They ran to the end of a group in 2022. And even in 23, they were four and four when Kirk got hurt. And I have no doubts that they would have, you know, finished with 10 wins that season based on how close those games were with Nick Mullins and Josh Dobbs that if Kirk had continued playing, they would have made the playoffs still. They have enough to still make the playoffs and be a competitive team. But I think trading Grenard would be sending flares into the sky that this is a different approach now from quacy Adafo men's as plan, which was chips to the middle of the table for 25 and 26, which is, I mean, that's very, that's very interesting. And I think very telling, but sort of bottom line is if they cannot get a first round draft pick or at worst, a second round draft pick, then I think you got to play it out with Jonathan

23:08Grenard, even if he's not happy and you saw a breer say that they're comfortable with the numbers, but he wants to have a market correcting deal because the salary cap has gone up several times now. And the prices for edge rushers have gone up several times and they just really don't want to do that. So they would rather, you know, make a trade then decide to invest a lot more. And again, that's a shift because in recent years, they've kind of, you know, made sure that everybody got everything they wanted. Byron Murphy last year got a huge contract. Aaron Jones got a contract that was way bigger than he probably should have compared to what happened in free agency with the running back position. And they've decided that the line in the sand is now being drawn. You're not going to do it this way. But, you know, I do agree with, you know, the idea from some folks of, hey, like, this is a guy who could be here through this, right? Not just with Jonathan

24:10Grenard because he's not old. And he doesn't have a bad injury history. It was oblique last year. It was something that he probably could have kept playing through had they ended up making the playoffs. So there is an argument for, like, look, I get you want to spend less. And I get you don't want to give him a new contract. But at the same time, like, this guy could be good until he's 33 or 34 years old based on the work ethic based on, like, not, I mean, he's got some injuries in the past, but it's not a super serious injury history that you would point to and say, it's majorly problematic. But, you know, you look at, he look at the draft, you look at the strengths of the draft. And I do wonder if coming out of the combine, that was something that was influential here. Like, yeah, this is a deep draft for that position. And if we can create cap space that way. And also, this is the cap is real. The cap is real. And you have to deal with it. And the Vikings are maybe

25:11looking at some creative ways that we didn't expect to deal with it. All right. So the, but if you got thoughts on that, you know, feel free, jump in the comments. We'll talk about those shortly. But there's more to discuss here. And that is Kyler Murray. And there has been a lot of conversation on this here show over the last, I don't know, maybe four weeks about Kyler Murray and his availability. And today it has happened. The Arizona Cardinals. This is from Ian Rapp report have informed Kyler Murray that they are releasing him and making him a free agent. He is do 36 million dollars guaranteed. But that will come from the Arizona Cardinals, meaning he will play this year on the league minimum. This is something that cannot be emphasized enough when it comes to Kyler Murray and the Minnesota Vikings and why it makes complete sets. We just talked about the fact that they are in such cap hell. And that the owners, I think, made it clear through Rob

26:17Burzinski at the combine that they don't want to restructure every single deal. They don't want to push every single dollar down the road. Because when you do restructures, it usually means the owners have to write the check and cash that day. So all right, we're doing the restructure, but they have to, you know, here's the check to shift that money into the players pocket like they don't love doing that. And they've already done so much of that in the recent past. So if you're looking for a cost effective deal, Kyler Murray is going to cost the league minimum, which is 1.3 million dollars. That is it for Kyler Murray. And I was doing even a little more research on Murray today. I wrote, you know, wrote the article and, and I've heard all of the criticisms of Kyler Murray and my thing is like some of them, some of them are a little silly. Some of them are not wrong. But also who is going to be available that is a perfect top five quarterback for the Vikings. And the answer is nobody.

27:20But I found this interesting. Let me pull this up that league executives in Mike Sando's piece each year, the quarterback tears. So I mentioned this a little bit yesterday, but I looked up the exact numbers on Kyler Murray. And what I found really interesting is that in those quarterback tears, so I looked at 2021 through 2025, which would be reacting to the previous season, right? And what Mike Sando of the athletic does is he goes out and he talks to this guy's been around for a really, really long time talks to executives and coaches and has them rank all the quarterbacks into different tiers. Are you a first tier, Josh Allen quarterback? Are you a second tier? I don't know, Jared Goff. Are you a third tier? And this is where Kyler Murray has often landed. Kurt Cousins would land in the third tier a lot of times. And here were the numbers from 2021 to 2025 of where he ranked each season by coaches and executives. So this isn't PFF data. This isn't box

28:22scores. This is the opinion of people inside the NFL year by year. Here's his ranks 12th and starting in 2021 reacting to the 2020 season 12th 13th 13th 17th and then 15th headed into this year, which was of course a lost season for Kyler Murray. He got injured and then they decided that they were going to tank and play Jacobi percent. And I think right there when you start to go dollars for donuts, just put everything else aside, put just the does he play video games or whatever, that sort of thing, put all of that aside when it comes to the innuendo that's out there about Kyler Murray. And by the way, I tried and you can try to to use Google, our powerful Google engine and find in 2024 when he played for Drew Petsing and Jonathan Galen, so the most recent example,

29:24I tried to find any issues between those guys and could not find anything. And I was told by someone in the know, not with the Vikings, but someone in the know that the relationship there between Ganon and Kyler was good in 2024. And that Ganon wanted to continue to play Kyler Murray, but the organization rightfully went to the bottom. And that was why they played Jacobi percent the rest of the time. So that relationship between Petsing, I did find quotes of the talking about Murray talking about the trust between he and Jonathan Ganon and he and Drew Petsing, the office of coordinator, that relationship seemed fine. So maybe it was early in his career. Maybe it was Clint or Cliff Kingsbury. And also his production in his best years in 2020 and 2021, were pretty good. And there's also something that's kind of crazy to me about Murray, which is remember with seeing ghosts with Sam Darnold. Seeing ghosts happen at what age for Sam Darnold,

30:3021, I believe. And it stuck with him. He was a grown man when he arrived at the Minnesota Vikings at like 27 years old. And people are still saying, oh, the guy saw ghosts. I mean, couldn't this also be the case with Kyler Murray that as a younger player, maybe did not know necessarily, entirely how to prepare, maybe did take his gifts physically for granted. And then like, this is a long time now separated from that discussion that happened also as the team took, I think, a risky leap of faith with him in signing him to a big contract that clearly they were trying to cover themselves if it didn't work out. And that regime got blown out anyway. So I'm just making the point that these things that gets said can stick for a long time, even if they have not been true anymore. And I saw Josh Weinfuss of ESPN, who is actually from Minnesota. I'll try to get him on the show if the Vikings get Murray because he's covered Murray's entire career

31:31there in Arizona. He tweeted that everyone he talked to called Kyler Murray a competitor. And that's what I've heard as well. What I have also heard about Murray is that he's just that he's not vocal. He's not going to be a raw raw type of guy. He's not going to be the guy that gives the big locker room speech and things like that. But that shouldn't be mistaken for his competitiveness. And I was thinking about this today and how some of the narrative just doesn't match up with Kyler Murray, but he's lazy. He doesn't care. He doesn't put in the work. Okay. All right. We're talking about a guy who is five foot 10 ish, one of the smallest players in the entire NFL actually in history to ever play this position, who was as dominant of a high school quarterback, who has ever existed, who was a good enough college quarterback to be drafted number one overall and good enough to come into the NFL and become what NFL executives thought was a top 12 13 quarterback early in his career. And most recently a top 15 quarterback, the idea that he's just not doing anything and

32:37is just showing up to the stadium or whatever is kind of silly to me considering the success that he's had. Now that doesn't mean that he's somebody that spits glass or whatever. But I mean, I think that that might be a little overblown. And I even saw in one of the sandole articles, a general manager say, well, you know, his dedication is questionable because he fades at the end of the season. And when I looked this up, what do you think I found his games at the end had the same quarterback rating in the final four games of the season as they did in the first four games, but his teams did not have as much success. And when you look at their defenses, when you look at their supporting casts, they haven't been that impressive. 99 cents, please. For real, no way. What a deal. Your new morning groove. Ice coffee from McDonald's, any size for just 99 cents to

33:4411 a.m. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Suffering from dry, tired, irritated eyes, don't let dry eyes win. You sustain pro. It hydrates, restores and protects dry eyes for up to 12 hours. Sustained pro. Triple action, dry eye relief. Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCartle and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a news show from Washington Post opinion called reasonably optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward. Does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are? No, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for. Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Mike Voilo of Lexicon Valley. And I'm Bob Garfield. Are you one of those people who sometimes uses words? Do you communicate or acquire information with, you know, language?

34:46Hey us too. So join us on Lexicon Valley to true over the history, culture and many mysteries of English plus some life cracks. Find us on one of those apps where people listen to podcasts. So the point is when Kevin O'Connell got here, Kirk Cousins reputation was he's a bad leader. He just works here, right? That was what was said about Kirk Cousins. That changed in 2022. When Sam Darnold showed up here, everyone said he sees ghosts. This guy can't read a defense. He's just going to melt down eventually and isn't any good. I am certainly willing to leave the door open to this guy will be highly motivated to recreate the narrative of his entire career, the way that Sam Darnold did in Minnesota. And if there's any bigger motivator, it's that the next the next contract for him could be what? A hundred million dollars plus if he plays really well in

35:49Minnesota, maybe that's here, maybe it's somewhere else. So that's, you know, an addition to sort of my ranting and raving a bit yesterday on Kyler Murray. To me though, it is for one million dollars, just take away all the narrative stuff and just look at the black and white. Just look at what he's produced. Also, I had the stat hold on. I'll get you this. This is another good one. This is a, this is a really crazy one because I was trying to search for this. I think last night and then I went and found it. And it's just, it's just remarkable to think about that when, where did I have this? When Kyler played. Wait, I've got it somewhere. His record. I had his record when he played and when I'll get it for you. When anyone else played other than Kyler Murray. And this is the same team and they're bringing in, you know, pro quarterbacks to play. And okay, I got it. Here it is.

36:51When Kyler Murray played since 2020, the Cardinals were 33 and 38, which is a little under 500. When he did not play from 2020 to 2025, they're five and 25. So they won five times in 30 games when he didn't play. And he was near 500 when he did play. I mean, is it, is it ridiculous to think that Kyler Murray could come in and play with a good team around him with a good group of weapons with an encouraging positive coach who still got an A from the NFL players association, even as his team had a bad season and had a lot of drama and, you know, melt it down in some games. It thinks I like to eat to have a coach who's going to have his back from day one to have an offensive setup that has I think a good offensive line. If it's healthy in front of him, Donovan Jackson, a first round draft pick, Brian O'Neill still playing very well. I think Will fries can

37:55play better. Don't know what they're going to do at center. But I mean, that's a pretty good line. The best receiver in the world, assuming Addison comes back, assuming they keep pockets and they can add maybe somebody to that. It's, it's just hard to convince me that that couldn't do something for Kyler Murray and be successful and potentially get them into the playoffs, which by the way, is the fan duel question of the day. As the Vikings are being named the clear favorite for Kyler Murray, um, they are plus 700 on fan duel to win the division with that number change for you, or would you keep them in fourth place, even if they got Kyler Murray? And the other thing is, too, that, you know, in comparison to the other players that they could go out and get that are not Kyler Murray. And this moves us on to the next news item, which is Daniel Jones. So today, Daniel Jones was given the transition tag by the Indianapolis Colts, which is 37 million dollars and a little cheaper than the franchise tag. But here, according to Adam Shafter,

38:56it gives Daniel Jones the opportunity to sign an offer sheet with another team, an Indianapolis. So you can put in an offer and then Indianapolis can either say, okay, we're going to match that and that's your contract or they could say too rich for our blood. So when you think about the comparison here, Kyler Murray versus Daniel Jones, Daniel Jones, who does, you know, make a lot of sense for the Vikings. And I think prove that he's a better quarterback than he looked like with the New York Giants. Daniel Jones's worst seasons are way worse than Kyler Murray's worst seasons. And his best seasons are not as good as Kyler Murray's best seasons. And now we're talking about a guy who was once mobile, who has had an ACL tear and an Achilles tear. So the mobility is probably off the table. And the price to get him, when you think about a transition tag that sort of sets the number 37 million as he negotiates with other teams, he's going to want at least more than that guaranteed. So he's going to want at least 40 million

40:00guaranteed. What kind of offer could the Minnesota Vikings give Daniel Jones that would be even remotely reasonable and that the Indianapolis Colts would not match. So if they offered him 120 million over three seasons, I guess, I mean, what are we talking? You have to push the number up to the point where the Colts go, okay, we're good. I mean, is that the number? And then can you think about, I don't believe that Daniel Jones is a more talented quarterback than Kyler Murray. I think Kyler is one of the 10 most gifted players at that position. When you add in 500 yards a year at rushing, right? And the playmaking and so forth, Daniel Jones doesn't really have that at all. And even last year, I mean, think about Jonathan Taylor's having an all time great season for them. And you know, he's had he had a lot of success throwing the ball, but started to drift before he got injured and kind of regressed there. I think some of it might have been scheduled driven or small sample size, not that I don't think Jones could start and win for the Vikings. I do. But

41:04how could you come up with a contract where Daniel Jones is going to say, yes, I'll sign with the Vikings. And the Colts are going to say, that's too much money. We're not going to match it because they love Daniel Jones and they feel like they nailed it with him. I just that's really hard to figure out. So if that's off the table, now if look, if they didn't tag him at all, then this might have been more interesting. Then it might have been, well, can you get him for like, I don't know what Aaron Rogers signed for last year, even then Kyler Murray costs $1 million. Here's a crazy thing for you. If they retain, if they retain Bo Richter, he'll make like the same amount of money as Kyler Murray from the Vikings on the salary cap. An RFA undrafted free agent who plays on special teams and his good at special teams. But that's how much the starting quarterback would cost the Vikings versus somebody like Daniel Jones that now in order to have any chance to get him,

42:08you're going to have to really sell out on the salary cap. Yeah, you're going to have to trade Jonathan Grinard and do like five other things to just get him here. And you don't even know if he could start week one because of his health situation. That does not add up to me at all, which brings us back to Kyler. So you start now that the transition tag is done. And you start having this conversation of all right. So it's Kyler versus whom? Okay, versus Geno Smith. I think it's fair. The people who talk about Geno is an exciting option. But he makes way more mistakes with the football than Kyler Murray. I mean way more. He gets sacked way more. He throws way more interceptions. He's way older. And I know that in the past, he's played some under center, but he hasn't really in the last two years. I mean, that and he has no rushing ability whatsoever. And you need to keep that in mind that the rushing ability is not just some small little thing. It's 500 yards extra. It's five

43:13extra touchdowns. It's, I don't know how many first downs Kyler Murray had rushing in 2024. But I mean, you, you're talking about 20, 20 or 30 more over a season rushing first downs from your quarterback. Then you would get from Geno Smith. So yes, he can make every throw in the KOC offense. And yes, he could push the ball down field, but he can also push it to the other team. I don't know that it would be that different than if James Winston played here. I mean, either Geno's better than Winston, but in this offense, I would, if you give me the option between Geno Smith runs the KOC offense and gets sacked 55 times and throws 20 interceptions versus they have to make some adjustments for Kyler Murray. I would prefer to take Murray. And a lot of people have said to me, well, you know, he can't throw down field. And I saw Warren Sharp had some stats on, you know, the downfield passing and so forth. It is true that his success throwing down the field has not been the same as it was early in his career. And I think that would be something

44:17to consider and a factor. But Kirk Cousins in 2023 was 39 thought of 40 quarterbacks in how often he threw over 20 yards down field. This offense can exist in a world where you rest on the the tight end a lot underneath where you pump the football to wide receiver one, but not necessarily throwing bombs down the field. It's much more between 10 and 20 yards where Murray's success in 2024 was good. You roll him out sometimes after, you know, under center, you try to run successfully. I don't know that Arizona ever had a great run game. 2024. I think they were pretty good with James Connors. You try to run successfully. And it'll be inconsistent. And I included this chart in my article. It was up and down for him any year of his career. It's up and down. And the main reason for that is that because of his size, there is going to be times where Kyla Murray has to rely on doing things that are spectacular. And when he does them, they're mind blowing. It's

45:22holy cow. That's one of the best plays you'll ever see. But it's hard to do that consistently. So can you even and I think Petsing tried to do this in 2024? Can you even some of that out to the point where you're not trying to just aim for big plays and something that was really fascinating when I dove into Murray is that some years he's been one of the best quarterbacks to league under pressure. And some years he's been one of the worst. And it really depends on do you have options for him with the pressure? And what does he do once he gets out and starts to scramble? But when you compare these other options, just, just put Murray at one million versus every other option. Let's do it. Malik Willis. I love the Malik Willis idea. 30 million. So 29 more million dollars for someone that you hope becomes as good as Kyla Murray. That's kind of tough. Like isn't the ceiling for Malik Willis Kyla Murray being the 12th best quarterback in the league with a ton of talent, but you know, probably not Josh Allen, right? Isn't that kind of the

46:29best case scenario for a Malik Willis? All right. Well, I don't mind that, but it's a lot more expensive. Geno Smith, we just talked about Kirk Cousins. Okay. Kirk comes back for one year. And then what I mean, you win what nine games with Kirk just hard just without any mobility. It's just really hard to see Kirk Cousins getting them anywhere higher farther than he did before when he was here at his peak and was playing really well. Same thing goes for Aaron Rogers. What's the real peak on that? Mac Jones, they want the world for Mac Jones to trade for him. Where's the option that makes more sense for a top 15 quarterback in the league's opinion, not just mine in the league's opinion, top 15 quarterback for one million dollars. It just it seems to be undeniable. And you're going to have to work through some things and you're going to have to figure some things out with him. But here's the other part because we have to still mention JJ McCarthy as part of this conversation. In the instance that Kyla Murray signs a one year

47:36$1.3 million contract with the Vikings, which is the projection because, you know, Arizona's eating the money. So let's say that let's say that's the case. Let's say it's one year and $1.3 million. And Kyla Murray comes in and he's okay. They win nine games. Let's just say he's the 18th best quarterback in the league. It's not quite the same as it was at his peak and he gets them into the playoff conversation. The last week of the season, they need tie breakers. Maybe they get in. Maybe they don't. And JJ McCarthy is his backup throughout the season. I have apparently they want Carson once back. But let's just let's just play it out. JJ McCarthy is then his backup throughout the season. Okay. And throughout the year, he's got a chance to develop behind the scenes to see how Kyla Murray navigates an entire NFL season because as much as people say, well, he's been injured and stuff like that. He did play 17 games in 2024. So he is capable of

48:39playing an entire season. Let's just say that McCarthy is doing all his stuff behind the scenes, the exact right way and is growing up and is improving his throwing technique and is showing much better command of the offense behind the scenes. And they're excited about him. You don't have to sign Kyla Murray back and keep him as your long term quarterback. It could be a one year transition, a true bridge, which is what they were trying to do with Sam Darnold and it just didn't work out because of the meniscus injury for JJ McCarthy. But you could kind of write a wrong and still it does not preclude JJ McCarthy from becoming the quarterback of the Vikings. Eventually, it would just be a longer route there. And if you were to end up in 2027 starting for the Vikings, I mean, let's just say, let's just say that you're going to have to do some rebuilding after that. You're going to have to get to the point where you're doing a rebuild kind of thing. And all right. Well, then you have McCarthy getting a real chance again with a

49:46team where there's not pressure from a 14 win season. And he can show you what he's got. And maybe if you have played this correctly, if you are the Minnesota Vikings and you've played it right and you've stockpiled draft capital and you've gotten younger and you're going into that year, you have draft picks that you can move up and take a quarterback. You might be talking about 2027, a competition between drafted quarterback X and JJ McCarthy and trying to find your young quarter back still. So there's a world where Kyler is so good. And this exists because the guy has had really good seasons before and is a former number one pick. There's a world where he's so good that you want to sign him to an extension and you want to make him your guy. That world is probably like, let's, if we try to pie chart here, I mean, that's, that's probably like 20% chance of happening that he's so good. And you're so awesome. And Jefferson catches 118 balls. And you're

50:50in the NFC championship. Okay, well, you're signing Kyler Murray. That's like a 15 to 20% chance. What's more likely is that you have a competitive season where you can make a case as a playoff team maybe get serious in the in the post season and then open the door still to your quarterback future after that kind of resetting the franchise from calamity at the quarterback position where they were last year. All of this sounds like the best possible option. Does it sound like the best thing I've ever heard in my entire life at the quarterback position? No, it does not. But there isn't that option. So I think already, I've seen a bit of a shift of now that it's getting more real from Vikings fans going, well, you got to play the hand that's dealt to you. And with McCarthy, being that he is his age, it just doesn't have to be over. And if the Vikings want to play it in

51:50a look, it could also go this way too. If they feel like it's really over for McCarthy and they don't want to try to further develop him, you could also move him and get a second round or third round draft pickback. And once again, you're starting to stockpile draft capital for the future for when you ultimately may need to trade up to draft a quarterback in 2027. So you can see the wheels turning of a lot of different scenarios where it would make sense for Kyler Murray to be a Minnesota Viking and where that could take you that there's, I started a pie chart. Let's say there's a 20% chance that he's just really dang good, which I'm taking all day. I know when people were like, I'll say I'm darn old wouldn't have taken us to the Super Bowl. I'll take a chance. I'll take a chance. If you if you told me that Kyler Murray took the Vikings to the NFC championship next year, I feel like, okay, I mean, we've seen crazy or stuff happen than that, even from a short quarterback. It's not likely. It's way less than 50%, but I wouldn't count it

52:54completely out that he's just awesome. So let's say that's a that's a 20% chance that makes it easier for me to add it up. What's the chances that he's a one year solution at very cheap price and is pretty good and pretty frustrating up and down crazy good games, crazy bad games, and they end up with nine or 10 wins and get into the playoffs, but don't go much further than that. Well, that's probably like a like a 50% chance. 40%. Let's go 40. So you got 20%. It's crazy good. 40%. It's pretty good. And then what you have is another 40% where it's just it just doesn't really work. But even in the instance that it doesn't work, you didn't spend any money on it. And then you can turn the ball back to JJ McCarthy. Let's let's even go down that path. Let's say the Viking sign Kyler Murray and they start him for the first 10 games of the season and they are four and six and he's just mid and he's just not good. Maybe worse than mid. He's kind

53:56of toast. He's struggling to throw it down the field and he's getting sacked a lot and just not going well. Then you can give the ball to JJ McCarthy and see how far he's come along with a lot of work behind the scenes. A lot of work in the off season and then continue on with that path that maybe you get to the end of the season and go actually he took a huge step forward or you get to the end of the season and go it's just not it's just not for us. And might that result in a coaching change and everything else. Maybe I don't know. I don't think that this regime wants to move on from Kevin O'Connell. I don't I don't think history speaks really well of his chances if they have a terrible season. But as a franchise outcome because again, the franchise goes on regardless of his if it's a coaching change or quarterback change or if you trade Grinard or whatever the future will get here. I mean, let's say you go four and six with Kyler Murray. It's a real struggle. It's not working out and you go to McCarthy and he's also bad still and you go

55:01I don't know six and 10. Then you know where you are. You know exactly where you are. And I've always thought this from a front office perspective that there's a lot of value in clarity that if it is clear to the front office what must be done. That makes things a lot easier in all sports, I think. If you got to six and 11 for next season because the wheels came off Kyler Murray and JJ McCarthy didn't show anything at the end of the year, then you know what you need to do. You need to spin that into the next quarterback in a draft class. That's pretty good. And you've already stockpiled some draft capital and you've already gotten your salary cap so it's not insanely bad and you're in the right direction and then you try it again. And there's also a universe where McCarthy in year three place half the season plays very well. And then you're going into 2027 saying let's take a shot at doing this again with JJ McCarthy. And this is the guy

56:03that we thought we were going to get when we drafted him. That's not in this scenario. That's not that crazy either because McCarthy did show flashes and we have seen other quarterbacks at times go through a development phase and come out on the other side. Who guys there's a lot. Oh one more note. I wanted to get to this was very shocking today. A drew Dalman the center for the Chicago Bears retired at the age of 27. And this is a massive game changer because Dalman last year and I've talked about this a lot in this off season. How important that center position really is he was a top notch center for them. He was a huge signing. He was big dealing with Caleb Williams and getting Williams on the right page. He was really big in terms of operating the run game. He's one of the best run blockers in the NFL. And I guess injuries have added up on him and he decided

57:04to step away from the game at the age of 27. I am always by the way a huge proponent of step away from this game early rather than late early might feel like a little empty to you that you didn't have the career you wanted late might be something you really regret down the road. And so I fully support drew Dalman deciding, Hey, this is just not working for me physically or emotionally or whatever it might be. And I'm going to walk away from this game. But for the Chicago Bears from the NFC North perspective, this is huge. And last year we talked about it with Frank right now. And we said, man, you know, losing right now, it's going to make everything different for Detroit. And I'd, you know, like we talked about it and still I think I picked them to win the division. And maybe I didn't even give it enough credit either. I thought, well, they've got so much other talent, but it had a mega trickle down effect. And now they're on the hunt. Tyler Biodish,

58:04I think visited them today. So like they're already looking for somebody else, but that is a big, big loss for the Chicago Bears. Okay, deep breath, sip a diet, Dr. Pepper, and we can get into where you guys stand on this discussion. So start. I know you guys have been commenting along and I appreciate that. And there was a super chat that came from scamping around. Thank you so much for the super chat. I'll make sure I get to, you know, going back and looking at the comments here in just a second. But man, you talk about, you talk about the NFL never stops. Holy cow, this is the NFL never stop. That is for sure. Didn't think that I was going to get this big of news coming today with the Jonathan Grinard thing. I'm just very conflicted about it. Like I, because I, if the ownership says we gave you all the money that you needed, it didn't work out for you. Now get it right. Then that's a player that you might have to move on from because he's now worth

59:08like $40 million on the open market. And if you're not going to give him a new contract, it's worth that much. And if you can get a second round draft pick for him and then go into this, if it's this year, it go into this draft with a first two seconds, couple of thirds, that's the, that's the reset that they've been looking for with still a very solid core. But we came out of Indy saying, hey, they're not going on on a, on a restructure spree. They're not going on to spend these, so it was shocking to see Grinard's name mentioned. But then when you start to think about it, it's like, well, this actually adds up completely with what Brazinski said. And I think that, that Brazinski was handed down, here's what you're going to do for us now with the team from the wills. And he's executing that. And I think that's a good thing. I think that they needed somebody to kind of reign it in a bit from what they had done last year, which was spending like crazy. But I just thought they would do it for one more year. Let's see. So we'll start with your comments

1:00:13here of Flick says personally love the idea of trading Addison and Grinard for draft capital time to build for the future. I think K.O.C. is a fantastic coach. And J.J. McCarthy's writing is already on the wall. The Addison thing is a little bit tricky because he's so cost effective for 2026. But you're right. If you're looking out toward the future, fifth year opt, I mean, this you start trading Jonathan Grinard and Jordan Addison. And you're looking at a very different ball club, all the sudden, you're going from, hey, we believe that this setup can, you know, make us a Super Bowl contender with decent quarterback play or baseline quarterback play to you're just not, you're just not a super if you move on from Addison and Grinard, you're just not, you're not a Super Bowl contender, which I think for the long term, it makes you closer because you know, we did that needle before. Remember when I said that after they had torn down a lot of pieces and the direction was clear toward drafting a quarterback, I remember saying, this is the closest you've

1:01:16been to a Super Bowl. Since Case Keenum walked off the field in Philly. And I felt like, okay, winning 14 games was probably the closest there heading to Glendale. But if we're moving a needle, are you getting closer farther away? If they made a trade for two of their more talented players out for draft capital in with the idea of drafting a quarterback again in 2027 or seeing if JJ McCarthy turns a corner, that feels closer. It doesn't feel farther away because it doesn't feel like there's as much as I really like the Kyler Murray idea because of the price tag and I also think it'll be fun. I think he's an entertaining player. He's an exciting player. His best games are spectacular. I mean, go back and watch that game in 2021 against the Vikings. 400 yards. The guy was a maniac in that game. It was crazy. That'd be really fun. Hard to make a case that you're going to build a roster as strong as Seattle's was or Philly's was

1:02:18with Kyler Murray. Certainly could be in the playoffs, certainly can win games. But I mean, Super Bowl seems a little far-fetched. If you're talking about, you know, having the 15th best quarterback in the league and a roster with some holes in it that you punch and yet I would still move the needle in the in the plus direction because you're doing it in a way that Philadelphia and Seattle have done it with stockpiling draft capital and then keeping the players that they get long term and drafting a quarterback in 2027. So I think overall it's probably the right thing to do if you think that the franchise, if you're trying to with a new general manager, maybe it's Robert Zinski, lay out a five year plan. If you were doing that complete reset, someone just got here, what do they want to do? They would probably say that. They would probably look at this roster and go, we can make the playoffs, but we got to start thinking long term because if we go down this road, you're going to end up at the bottom for a couple of seasons or in a lot of trouble and maybe minus a Justin Jefferson, if you're in that

1:03:21much trouble, which we don't want to be. So that's why it's interesting. That's why you can't just on its face say, oh, man, I hate this that they could move on from Jonathan Grinard. I think you've got to see the bigger picture. And this is coming from Grinard's one of my favorite guys to talk to. I would be very, very disappointed. He is a great, great, great, super knowledgeable, highly intelligent, really intense football guy that is a joy to speak with locker room. So I would be sad myself and a great leader, I think of someone who just brings so much intensity all the time. He's a tough guy to lose, but in a ball game where you're playing with a hard salary cap that keeps proving that it is a real salary cap when you're playing with very little draft capital. Still, they have more, but it's not like they have a ton. Go do your draft sims. You get 18, then you'll wait a while, right? So would it be better to have, I don't know, 1836. What do they

1:04:25have 49 like that? That's another player. It's hard to give away a guy that good though. So what was it? Oh, with with Addison. Yeah, I mean, with Addison, it would be again, very much a like we're looking toward the future down the road. We don't want to pay this guy. We're going to get everything we can back for him. And it would be very different. It in the immediate, very, very hard to replace someone as good as Jordan Addison, but I've never been of the mind that you can't move on from Addison. The only thing that I was looking at and my mindset has to change here with Addison because I didn't think that I mean, I had not even considered moving Jonathan Grinard. So if they move Grinard, why wouldn't you move Addison? Because it's the same story. It's don't want to pay this guy in the future. And I don't know how you can pay him when you can't trust him. That that would seem to me a very, very risky to do. And I mean, can you get a second round pick back from Addison? You certainly should be able to. I mean, he got thrown out of a casino. He

1:05:29didn't commit homicide or something like he's, you know, had his issues. But I think other teams looking at his talent and the need for wide receiver would be willing to give up something for Jordan Addison. Caleb says everyone says JJ was on an upward trajectory. He didn't even finish the last five games. And average like 180 yards per game. It wasn't that impressive even at his best. Yeah. I mean, look, you also can't just carve out what you like and say, and this is like the Kyler Murray analysis for me. I've presented the facts on Kyler Murray, but also acknowledge the downfield passing doesn't work. The play under pressure is wildly inconsistent. There is certainly a question about how you fit in a locker room. Like there are positives and negatives when it comes to even a really good player like that. And I think with JJ McCarthy, if you just sort of redact everything that you don't like, sure, you could say it was really

1:06:36good here and it was really good there. But that's not how anything works. If you only took the best games of a basketball player, they'd shoot 65% for three or whatever. Like, look, I took the best five game stretch from a basketball player. He's the best three point. He's Jordan. He's the best three point. Sure. He's Curry. You could do that with just about anybody, right? With Kirk. Oh my God. If you just took October for Kirk, he's Joe Montana. But that's not how it works. So with McCarthy, it's a bigger sample size that suggests this is not someone who right now is ready to lead a franchise back to the playoffs. Kyla Murray certainly is. And I believe Geno Smith could do it. I think Kirk could probably do it. I think Rodgers could probably do it. But McCarthy based on his history would have to really, really take an insane step forward in order to even get to that baseline level. He was not even last year. You compared Desmond Riders first 10 games to McCarthy. And it's better. Like Desmond Riders of QB three or QB four bouncing around three or four

1:07:41different teams in a single year. And his first 10 games are better than McCarthy's. You just can't, you can't put your season in the season of Justin Jefferson and all these other players on your team on to someone who played like that. Doesn't mean it can't get there eventually. But like you're saying, in the analysis, you can't just circle the things that you like and then ignore the rest of the stuff. And down the stretch, it was fine. There were other guys in the league top quarterbacks who were thrown for 350 yards of four touchdowns and stuff like that down the stretch. It was fine. It was against some of the worst defenses in the league. And there was improvement at times. I thought he was really good in the Dallas game. But it's only traits. Like O'Connell said at the combine and it's only flashes. It's not anything really substantive that you could say, yes, this is the proof that he can be the guy. But I still like the idea of one year 1.3 million dollars for Murray and give JJ his chance. I really, I loved what they did with Jordan, love in Green Bay.

1:08:44I love what Sam Darnall did going to the 49ers is a backup. I loved what Geno Smith did going to Seattle is a backup Baker Mayfield a backup in Los Angeles for a little bit there. These are good ideas for a quarterback to really learn how to play that have had some problems. JD says our center needs to and then didn't finish the sentence. Just need a center about that. You want your buddy to blow your back out, but he's not on prep. So you'll definitely want to help protect yourself against HIV. Thankfully, your friends at Freddy are here to help make prep easy. Prep means more ways to have safer sex, but there's nothing worse than a judgy doctor getting in the way. Get inclusive, simple care from your couch plus over 90% of patients pay $0 for their meds. Just visit playonprep.com to get started. Cost of prep varies based on residency and insurance. Prep produces HIV risk by 99% when taken as prescribed.

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