UK Column, China, and Intel Infiltration | Jerm Warfare Weekly Banter

0:30My name is Jim. This is Jim will be the battle of ideas Okay, after a couple of weeks of silence you guys are back kind of see me Charles you still you still yeah, okay Working our way working our way back slowly slowly. Yeah, but we're but we are Weirdly enough you still sort of in former UK territory Charles Yeah, absolutely This is it. I'm in Hong Kong and yeah, it's funny. I was thinking about exactly that on the way here. It was a typically British Experience the journey. I just had to where I am now in that I got into a taxi and sat in traffic for the first 10 minutes not moving anywhere at all. So home from home in that guard But yeah, that it's funny the There is I think I think when you know what to look for certainly in terms of where the British footprint has been left in various parts of the world then you

1:34You know sort of what to identify, but I do think sadly. I never came to Hong Kong prior to 97 So I don't have a direct comparison to make and there's no doubt it's changed a lot since then But there's only a simply driving on the left-hand side of the road for a start and There are a lot of things like the ferry, you know, the the star ferry that runs across the harbour still exactly the same as it was Over you know 100 and have many years ago So yeah, there are lots of absolutely lots of nods to the past but like everywhere a Huge number of pointers towards the future or just an indication of how much times have changed Where's interesting? I never talked about this before the Hong Kong still uses cash Absolutely everywhere. I've so far I've been here a week now So far I've only had to pay not using cash once which I think is pretty good and

2:36Yeah, it's interesting how those two things can be alongside each other the fact that you can have enormous Development, let's call it and huge technological Advancements so there are the options for doing all these things. I don't even understand in fact the girl What when I when I produced cash to pay and she said um Can you produce something else which can you use something else to pay with and like an idiot I just took out a card and said I think you mean this and then of course she reeled off several different ways Which I could have paid without a card So just shows how much I know but that so all that is there and you can do it if you want But the chances are that you will actually be able to carry on paying with cash which is really nice I'm quite jealous a few months ago Mike you were jealous of me going to China and then you into China and I was jealous of you So are we even?

3:38No, I mean I was jealous of you go into Xinjiang in particular because that is a part of the world that I'm fascinated by and you know, it's clearly culturally Totally different to to the rest of China and and just just for purely Historical silk road reasons I'm fascinated by the by the place so I'd like to I would love to go and see it So that was why I was particularly jealous Yeah, I mean it I think you probably had a fantastic Experience there I mean look you're right the silk road belt and road initiative Xinjiang is Completely different to the rest of China and it has huge history and Not just culturally, I mean geopolitically, traditionally cuisine everything is different. I mean, it's it's more central Asia than than it is China

4:41Well a date but yes, indeed, but I was I was thinking more in terms of the the historical rather than the modern but but obviously they I've seen the I've seen the the trailer for the documentary that's that's being made at the moment and and clearly that is A part of the world, which is changing very rapidly now Why were you there? Why were we in China? We were invited to China by Marcel Janko who is Has been a UK column member since 2019 or 2020 and and he Has Been running a business in China for I don't know how long and every year they They run a sort of annual Business company event which which this year he invited us to Along with a number of others Car was there Pepe Escobar was there

5:41A number of other people that Probably UK column viewers will be aware of because Marcel wanted to Sort of show off Some of his other activities to to the people that were To his company employees and and it was it was Also an opportunity just to to go and see as a city in China that that we hadn't seen before so so we were absolutely Taken around the place very similar to the to the kind of City tours and and other tours that that I did back in April last year when I went just on holiday um But you know that this was Really just an opportunity to to meet his people In you know the work in that part of the world so it was it was a fantastic experience Well, okay, so it's what I think Yeah, yeah, yeah, well just you know

6:43The fact that we were there we were okay Four of us from UK column you and I and christian jama and there You know the vast majority of what in fact I think all but Marcel are spread across China Chinese nationals and therefore for them to look at what we do and what some of the others are doing in the context of their Lives and professional backgrounds I think was um was a fascinating exchange But both ways. I mean we might and I were Totally gripped by what we saw it was it was absolutely remarkable by any metric So I think yeah, I think that's just an important point to make was that there was um There was definitely You know huge sort of interest both ways I mean well jama we've had we've had you know we've had a few

7:46uh Communications from people in the last couple of weeks asking about Marcel because uh, yes, yes, yes, I was going to ask you But but uh look I mean he is he is German national originally uh he set up a business in China to producing Charles I would I would guess we would describe it as traditional medsens Traditional Chinese person. Yeah, yeah, it's not based nuts. Yeah, right. So it's yeah, I mean I've seen the medicines. It's not pharmaceutical at all Um, and he he has done very well at that and he has supported a lot of people in particularly since Covid happened he has supported a lot of people that have been speaking out against what's What's been going on in the world? And as I say he's been a UK column member since since Around the Covid time a little bit before maybe and and uh and he has mid uh He has supported us a lot over that Over that period of time and I have to say he's he's one of the the uh

8:50I just enjoy his uh his company anytime we do meet up He is a fantastic bloke So you know, we're we're delighted to have him on board uh and and you know, he's Extremely generous with this time and and with his ideas and so on But you know, we've always got to keep in mind that uh The UK column is the UK column and and he has Just want to reinforce his point he has no desire to to see us Heading in any direction other than the one that we were intending to go in so so just to to set everybody's mind at rest on that point Sorry, uh, press the wrong button. I've known myself for for many years. I mean from when I was back at TNT And you're quite correct He just wants a better future for um for you know, his kids and for our kids And and that's how it should be we all

9:51Should want a better future. I get so annoyed Mike at this constant Uh Bickering within the opposition Quote unquote movement um and we've spoken about this before but it again, it's relevant because Um, I I constantly see even myself Um being accused of being controlled opposition and whatever else now mic your degree of control over me is terrible I have to admit you've you've got it up your game I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I hosted a show where the guest argued that earth is flat. You should have stopped that mic Hey, and then mic discipline I'm with that You've gone Yeah, why has it all happened that that's very annoying That's extremely impressive Well, I can still yeah, you mic Hold on a second. Let me see what we can do here. Can I turn this off and turn this back on again?

10:52You see that's that's the level of of of control you have, Mike Hey, you can't control over it even Or that that that somebody has To be able to manipulate at every stage what's going on in the background See there is that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, look, I'm just gonna have to I'm just gonna have to use the the uh the laptop camera I'm not sure why that has happened. So uh, that's fine. We'll just you were gonna you were gonna say Mike Uh, what was gonna say uh, yeah, you were asking about about the sort of bickering within the Opposition groups Look, we have to always remember that that uh, we are in an information war And you know at the end of the day people are going to be influenced by a lot of the stuff Which is pushed out on various formats and platforms but you know For the you know, we've been doing this for 20 years germ and in that time

11:53The amount of stuff that has appeared on the internet about us, which has been absolutely Factually incorrect Possibly defamatory in many cases So I take everything that I see about anybody with a massive pinch of salt Now Marcel has supported a lot of people over the last five or six years in particular and some of those people For whatever reason that relationship is broken down and as a result there is The usual vitriol doing the rinds about him from one or two people But I look at this from the point of view that uh You know that the number of people that that are Um massively appreciative of the help that he has given over the years vastly outweighs the number of people that are complaining about him And that applies I think to us and to just about everybody else. It's doing this in any kind of honest way Uh

12:54So Our view has always been that bearing in mind that we have been under saving and of this kind of nonsense for so many years and so many instances of it that That we absolutely will not uh get involved in that kind of Uh effort because what is the point at the end of the day whether somebody that that's that's an opposition or a So who claims to be resisting the agenda Um is attacking us or not we're not the enemy because We're not we're not pursuing these agenda poll these agenda items that that are the ones that are intended to To enslave us or whatever it is that that people are particularly concerned about at this at this moment of time So our effort should be directed at the uh at the policy makers at the governments at the financiers Uh that are that are building this uh Technocracy that we're saying at the moment and are using war as a mechanism to to drive public support for

13:55The direction they're going in so Why would we focus any attention on any of the people that are really Not relevant to this discussion Yeah, but that's the point and I mean Going back to Marcel. I mean a lot of people don't know you were talking about how he's helped Uh numerous individuals over the years. I mean secret back to he was one of my very first interviews ever Um, and I think that was back in 2020 and he was heavily attacked by the German government particularly in fact you might remember they wanted to take him down Um, and they took him legal and they wanted to absolutely destroy him and who was there to help secret was Marcel Uh, and um I mean Only a good person would do that Yeah, secret was also is a great man He's one of the best absolutely one of the best Sorry Charles go ahead. No, no, I mean I was only going to say you know that that story I think Is um is absolutely sort of illustrative because

14:59It you know in doing say that that action that Marcel took forged You know very close bond Between the two and to hear I don't know secret back to but to hear Marcel talk about him is um You know, it is wonderful and I think it It absolutely exemplifies What we should be thinking about which should be which are the human relationships and fostering positivity and concentrating on what can be done and what should be done and dealing with obstacles true obstacles that are put in our path and um And to look at it the other way you know as you've just been alluding to I do find it completely remarkable But also it sort of tells you everything you need to know To see that people are dedicating their energies to Yes attacking those around them who are ostensibly apparently Trying to well, I say trying to do the same thing there They're apparently seeing many of the same things and yet the chosen course of action

16:04For it seems like an increasing number of people. Maybe it's not an increasing number of people Maybe it is just the sort of multiplier effect of social media, but but it it does at times seem like an increasing number of people are Utterly Blindsided by the idea that rather than concentrating on the things that they could be doing About their own lives or about Those that we discuss sort of add in for item, you know that the The powers that be that corporations that those that are running corrupt governments and whatnot instead There is a sort of turn inwards and a You know and and sort of vicious attacking And I think the part I think the point I'm making specifically we've gone to the back the Relationship is is that it in doing the um The sort of inward attack everything is negative. There's there's absolutely nothing positive about that. It is it is all

17:08Bringing people down. It's all it's ego Well, I think I think that is that is also true But in you know, I talk about this a lot. So if you if you want to Realize an intention or a dream or a goal or whatever you want to Call it you have to Visualize it in such a way that you believe that not only it's attainable, but you are actually going to attain it and the reverse is true. So if you don't believe that and you just want to wallow in Sort of self-pity and negativity and sour grapes and all that sort of thing Well, where's that where's that going to take you and and I I feel It is a great pity that so many people have a tendency to get drawn into this As though it's meaningful Of course, we're never going to be in a position where everybody On supposedly sort of one side is going to be utterly unified in their

18:13Thinking and their actions, but so hot Concentrate on the overlapping ground and the positive steps and if there's something you see that you don't like fine Just just steer clear of it, but to to get distracted to the point of that consuming your Focus for your output is it is It's a disaster really and and you know as I say a great pity for those who might once have seen A better future but actually have become Sort of diluted by the the absolute nonsense that swirls around and then and then to consider though That's actually important and it's not it's just absolutely if enough and trivia and doesn't just doesn't deserve the time of day Look that is really really important point jaren because because this is something that has frustrated me since September 11th 2001 frankly Because what happened with the this a perfect example what happened with the so-called 911 truth movement over the next

19:1826 years as we are vastly rapidly approaching what happened was the divided across two camps The architects for engineers camp and the junior group camp, right? Yes, and and what happened was they started fighting each other And for the last 26 years they've been fighting each other 25 years. Sorry. They've been fighting each other, right What is the point of that to counter whether you believe when no matter whether you believe exactly no matter whether you believe in Control demolition or whether you believe in directed energy weapons Both parties believe and kind of agree that it was not the aircraft that brought the buildings dying So why not focus on that they can have their discussions about which is who's right about that That is something that they can have internally within the movement But the the the campaign point is it wasn't the aircraft that it was Therefore a an inside job and that that inside job has been used to justify a whole host of historical events It brought us to this point today where we're staring down the barrels of

20:22Potentially global conflict or the very least technocracy, right? Yes That that that focus of that entire effort should have been on that and everything else is superfluous to that My this is the problem with the opposition movements Yes, we are determined to rip each other's heads off instead of fighting the actual enemy And it tries me nuts after met it. Yeah, it absolutely tries me up the wall Me too. I'm having arguments lately with friends Who are caught up in the same nonsense Um, and I keep saying but what is the end goal here? What are you trying to do? Is it an ego battle? Are you actually interested in taking down a the official narrative? Um, or or you or you trying to fulfill the prophecy, you know made by Sun Si When you destroy the opposition from within Um, and I I see the same thing you mentioned 911 Mike the same thing with the whole no virus thing Yes, 100% exactly the same. Yes

21:22That argument about virus has been running for 150 years, 200 years, whatever it is We're not going to solve it at this point in time But let's all fight about it right now because that way we can distract ourselves and we're not actually having to deal with the The real yeah, because guess what guys? We're scared of the real enemy Right, and this is I think this is really what this is a psychology behind it aside from the fact that the real enemy is pushing in You know Narrators from outside. I think a large part of this is the fact that people would Would prefer to be fighting amongst themselves and actually fighting the base that they see in front of them Because that base is very very big and they're very very scared of it And it's got lots of money and they don't really know what to do about it There's a lot of very complex psychology going on here There is well, and I think I think I think interestingly you know going back to where we started on this conversation Yeah, Mike and I just had a trip to China. I'm nine Hong Kong Marcel who've been talking about now UK column Shareholder really sort of important part of the team has worked in China worked in Japan worked all over Asia and

22:31Has a company that operates in China. So For this sort of thinking that we're describing the the confluence of You know the idea of not confronting the things that should be confronted and indeed the Spector of China as it's presented by the mainstream has just been a gift because For the for the idle thinker that is a sort of all right. Yeah, okay China and UK column but sort of put them in the same sentence now and then we can do the the big Sort of conjuring trick of which is exactly what the British government is doing which is to say China is China is a threat and there are things happening in China that that we must be very wary of and if we keep your Eyes over there, then you won't Pay attention to what's happening right here and you won't consider

23:32That the conditions here are actually probably already worse than what's being described in I mean China's the obvious example. It's so it's so easy. I mean in a way you could sort of pick your Your threatening or problematic state elsewhere, but I do feel China exactly is is just it is the ultimate proxy for denying What's right in front of you? It you know what what are you to do this This terrible problem of what whether it's sort of Chinese surveillance spying or the fact that they're supposedly running this awfully oppressive state where Seems you can actually do more or less what you want to do but nonetheless Huge distraction and if you keep talking about it then again In the same way you do not need to confront the things that are going on specifically in the UK around you about which actually if you focus you might be able to do something

24:35Well going back to the 9-11 comment mic So I interviewed a gentleman by the name of Mad Campbell a few times actually and he has spent I think Close to 300,000 pounds if men reserves which is a huge amount of money sure not all of these own a lot of its donations and and all sorts of other things Uh Trying to get the British government to reopen the investigation so that he can actually find out what happened to his brother who died that day What what has happened since he's getting attacked by the directed energy weapons Group saying oh, but you this is all controlled. It's it's gatekeeping blah blah blah. So what are they ultimately doing they're trying to stop Something that's really really important And by the way Marcel also helped With the with the bit of the obvious legal obvious legal funds which obviously makes him a really bad person for doing that right Because because that's only what that's only what controlled opposition folks do they they try and support the government

25:38But I mean it it just blows my mind When when people are are more interested in their own egos, but Something in you and I spoke about Mike on the phone that there is also an element of design here this infiltration Yes, I mean I would Absolutely guaranteed that there's infiltration in many of these campaigns and of course it's very very hard to Identify exactly who by who those infiltrating voices might be And and really at the end of the day we should um probably Not be spending too much time or energy trying to work out exactly who it is What we should be spending our time and energy doing is working out what the what the right message should be and and trying to work out what is divisive Within our within our communities and and trying to deal with the divisiveness

26:38But we don't deal with it by fighting the people that are that are pushing water divisive narratives We we we deal with it by making our our positions are the The approach we're taking needs to be better, right? So I view each of these types of of attacks is an opportunity to To rethink how we're presenting the information and and making that argument stronger if if if this is what I actually believe then That's what I'm presenting Then I've got to make that argument stronger or And I'm not going to say that it has never happened. There are times when actually It it causes me to rethink my argument altogether. That's that's part and parcel of evolution of of positions and and actually analyzing the evidence But you know deciding on what are the most productive um ways to make your points

27:41and deciding when That discussion about whether this is right or that is right should be something that happens In the background and not something which is being presented out front This is this is part of of of what we have to do every day and and hopefully we mostly get it right Mm Well not always but hopefully mostly Well, obviously um and underlying theme here is China And I want to just touch on this just a bit more because since I mean since you are there Charles and you were there Mike and I was there and so now there's this common denominator We all seem to have this connection to China and we've seen some of the comments on YouTube for example They go oh you guys have become China column Uh, so you might you might See some of the feedback going oh, but you guys just making this excuses uh, you are becoming China orientated Anybody that thinks that hasn't been paying attention

28:42Right because because I started talking about about this Uh, 2015 2016 Part of the part of the reason I started talking about this was because it was absolutely clear Going back 15-16 years it was clear that the British government has been um building Um, a case for conflict with Russia and China And they've been doing it very systematically and and the types of people that have been in the US government But but let's just focus on Britain because because that's that that's really what we're mostly concerned about here But but the people that we're driving these agendas Where the likes of Richard dear love and I'm saying to people we'll hold on a second richer dear love is the man Who we all agree Created the yellow kick narrative which brought us to into war in Iraq Which we all agree the Tony Blair is basically should be tried for war crimes as a result of we all agree that the Iraq war was was wrong

29:47And the person who created that narrative was Richard dear love Richard dear love comes long creating a narrative about Russia and China And we say yeah, let's have that because we don't like Russia and China. So we agree with them Sorry, that's not how it works in my book That man it was was uh see he was head of MI6 he has an agenda now I Have never taken the position the China or Russia can do no wrong. They are governments and states and governments and states Do things that people in those countries don't like That's that's not the point. I'm trying to make my point In what we have been doing since I've been talking about this certainly since 2015 2016 Is to say well hold on a second the British government wants you to believe this about this country actually There's another side of this and it's no way to let China off with anything in terms of technocracy or

30:49You know the whatever's going on in central Africa with with child labor in in cobalt mines and these kinds of things We should not be letting anybody away with anything But what we've have got to do is to try to be a bit more objective about What the country is and whether we should be uh believing that It is some kind of enemy that we've got a fight. I mean for example the perfect example of this was the whole campaign of a Huawei Uh and Huawei equipment being on uh western um and british 5g networks Why was Britain this was viewed or just being presented by the british government as being a national security issue Why was it viewed as a national security issue was it because they were worried about uh Huawei's equipment being installed and then the Chinese government hoovering up huge quantities of western data Including government and military data or was it because every piece of Huawei kit

31:51On the network means that it's not Palo Alto networks or checkpoint Uh, which is is really Uh intelligence agency backed Right and and therefore it's therefore the the western the five eyes Plus israel can't get access to that information now in fact what Huawei did was They give the british intelligence agencies the source code that was going to be running on every piece of kit That was being sold in the united kingdom and actually my five and my six Accepted that there was nothing wrong with it and but but for political reasons the decision was made that That kid should not be there So and enemy and in the meantime we're getting as we we highlighted on the uk column news just before we went to china Stories in the telegraph which are just so absolutely ridiculous It's Higher could even be described as journalism is is beyond me But suggesting that that china has got is is intending to to

32:56Snoop on fiber optic cables that are running along with the street outside their new embassy in London I mean the thing was just the story was just so Encredible that uh, you know how they got away with it. I don't know. But anyway So my point is This is not something this our position on china our editorial position on china is not one That that is new it's it has been something that's been running for years It's designed it's it's intended to counter the narrative which is there to Which is there to drive public opinion in the direction of conflict with a country that we don't need to be in conflict with And it's it's Have hypocritical in so many ways because While every all the people that are in or in the uk that are being and they're being radicalized Let's let's put the correct word on this of being radicalized to believe that china is this massive enemy

33:58They're all buying their iPhones and their computers and their bits of tech and their Plastic Tat let's all be made in china So if you really don't believe that china is uh or if you believe the china is the enemy and stop buying Chinese goods That that seems to be if otherwise is the your positions hypocritical it would be my argument but but anyway Not of what we say is intended to ever let anybody rush your ore china off with anything And if there's criticism to be made of those countries and goodness knows vinesis is criticizing both heavily at the moment because of their Their position on Syria on their position on gaza And with some justification so so we aren't going to stop the critical voices Yeah, even though I personally I'm trying to to say to people look you got to you got to actually think about what it is you're being told about these countries because it's not necessarily true

34:59I mean when i was in china i spoke To both finesse and and with new web incidentally um and both of them we're we're giving me very very um Shall we say less than positive Information about the chinese government because like every other country china has a government and it also has its own Deep said and it also has its own warts Um, but you see the problem here mic is And you were basically saying this is that there is this deep rooted psychology that has been the result of years and years and years of propaganda and anti-China indoctrination that the moment you say something positive Anything positive about anything to do with china you're a shul or your grifter when I came back I received More negative response than I think I did when I took on the vaccine during during the covert era. I've never experienced

36:02such a harsh um Negative pushback and for what? Simply for you know, but you know why germ the the reason is because of trumps position on china and for ige's position on china Mm-hmm. That that's why people people need to stop listening to And to these types of of voices and and actually think about things and decide for themselves But but you know, that's part of why we went and charles. I'm sure it's going to say something about this because because At the end of the day we we should not be relying on on Stuff that's out there. It's if possible. We should all be Actually going and looking for ourselves Um Yeah, I think that's the that's the point of which I'd like to chime in because what fascinates me about china um I mean it would apply to other places except that other places don't seem to draw fire in quite the way In quite the same way that china does what what I find absolutely amazing is how invested

37:05people can become in a narrative without any First-hand experience or bit whatsoever So you have people talking about the um the surveillance state in china I didn't have my notebook out with me, but I was keeping a mental note of For example the amount of CCTV cameras in the airports at each end Without a doubt he throw airport had more cameras per square foot than anywhere else we went The idea that somehow Having to fill out a form in order to apply for a visa for china is in some way Uh and an out of the park or authoritarian measure is ridiculous. I have Worked and traveled in more than 70 countries in the world This is not unusual and actually look at what happened as a result of the storm of visit for brits 30 days These are free travel

38:07et cetera, so Absolutely peculiar idea that china is in some way an outlier is completely extraordinary the only places I have ever felt The um Full force of the law let's say and taken a hiding from police and indeed been stolen have been um Robbed by police was in Ukraine of all places again Absolutely lovely place terrifically corrupt Um But you know, so some in what what's what's the point the other place the the only other place where I have encountered Uh Let's say unfair or incorrect policing has been in the united kingdom And this is exactly my point yet we have people who are largely basing the united kingdom who are absolutely convinced that what they're told about china without visiting is A true and B yes, so completely different from anywhere else and

39:09I mean it is just not the case I do caveat that of course because a doubtless Some people will have thought are but um, you've just been there just this one time. Okay, it's not strictly true. I have been there Once previously. I'm not I'm not claiming to be speaking from anything other than the very brief experience I have had there so I'm going on what I have seen what I have heard and what I have gleaned from the conversations I have had with people that do live there but I absolutely saw nothing that was beyond the parameters within which We exist in the west absolutely nothing and the other point I would like to make which is a really important one and Mike spoke about the city Chongqing that we that we were in on Wednesday's news program One of the defining characteristics of it

40:09First of all, it's a normal size. I think Mike said 20 something either the figure I'd heard was 32 million people Either way there's a heck of a lot of people there And yet in the time that we spent which was Nearly a full week and we did travel out and about a lot I saw not one Instance of anything other than completely cordial behavior There was a sense of complete calm in the place and Before anyone might leap to the conclusion that I were it's because they're surveilled It's because there are police you know sort of tapping their truncheons on every corner No, it's not There that does not exist that is not a thing and I can't Explain why that is but it was a very very interesting talking point because particularly their car's arms on trip as well He's from Chongqing he left in 1990 and just in passing actually I just said to him It is search ordinary to come across a place with this

41:12Concentrated population and to experience such in sort of complete tranquility Okay, this was multiplied and then this is I'm not I'm not trying to sell That the the concept but by large vehicles there are electric so there's it's really quiet It's a sort of area actually because not only have you got quiet from the the roads themselves But also quite from the people they're not screaming and shouting and seeking attention like like sort of British teenagers who You know can't help but sort of spray fizzy drinks all over the place screaming and shouting just generally You know that that sort of nuisance factor absolutely was not a thing at all and Yet Karl was saying that when he left back in 1990 the Sense of sort of friction and and crime in particulars completely different from how it is now and The the water the talking point for that was I Mike and I would be filming it some motorbikes parked out none of which were locked and even people just left their helmets

42:13Unattended on top of the bike you would never do that anywhere in the UK now sadly Maybe parts got in the Wales, but but basically wouldn't it would be half inched in in seconds And and somehow and I believe Across all of if not most of or sorry most of if not all of China This is now a common factor and that went alongside the sense of sort of order and discipline and also really strong Um, I don't know quite how you describe it. I was gonna say family values What was what was very very obvious was that people walked around in families and partly that's because Internal tourism is such a big part of the economy So anyway, go now is populated by norms numbers of Chinese tourists and so they're forced to answer the reason They would be families and obviously we're now we're nearly at Chinese New Year So that would that would explain it to a certain degree But there really was a very very strong family thoughts, but the but the idea Again, that you know China is this sort of downtrodden broken

43:17Subjugated population because of the threat from the authorist or whatever actually Police were Evident in places, but only they kept a very low profile Absolutely nothing like driving round or walking round the city centre in The United Kingdom where you would see many many more police vehicles you would absolutely Without doubt see what I would describe as nuisance or just agro or just Chaos and there was none of that right there. So I'm not saying I know the answers. I don't I couldn't articulate or trace back to 1990 or whenever that began to change and say why that has happened and yes, okay that that undoubtedly there may be an element of um control let's say or the idea that

44:18That not to tow the line would have negative consequences, but It that that was absolutely not an evidence and and people there was no demonstration at all that people felt sort of You know fearful um So that that was a very interesting point to make and and I think you know the way certainly the way Carl spoke about I think we were talking to him more about this was the sort of thread Between And this is dangerous territory, but but the idea that The population sort of pulled up by its bootstraps via means of education regional investment in turn investment and And also the You know embracing the idea of Sense of national pride but in in a in a very genuine way and and then the other things are enough gone on for while the other thing Which which I would just like to finish off by saying is um in terms of the sort of You know Going back to dear love and and whatnot the other thing people are utterly ignorant of is is the history of

45:21China, but also the recent history concerning the British position and the British Involvement in China we have done nothing to that country except for try to shaft it And you look look back at the Victorian period and and what was happening there You know the opium trade the opium wars the the ports the treaties Absolutely at every turn the British sort to do nothing but exploit and cause havoc in China Um I was going to say that During your Dialogue there your monologue there Charles you were talking about them, but you are in China Yeah Just as a yeah as a point of accuracy Yes, yeah, okay, sorry, but I'm just I'm just make because I'm in Hong Kong I'm just making distinction because people do still get a touch about it I'm making that distinction between Hong Kong China But you see then then again, that's another fascinating thing and and I will bring this into the news Next week because one of the big talking points in Hong Kong at the moment is the sentencing of Jimmy Li the you know supposedly

46:28Uh I sort of You know force around which the freedom movement coalesced in 2019 Now I've had some very interesting conversations with people here who have first hand Experience of some of the things that have been going on Let's say slightly behind scenes. So so there's there's multi-colonial that but but that that is such a clear indication of the absolutely nefarious nefarious foreign influence and you know that the and we see it all the time but but again this idea that China is the negative or is exerting negative influence on Hong Kong And therefore People apparently are not going to or not going to allow themselves to see what particularly in particular the United States and United Kingdom might be doing in order to present That very impression and what benefit they may derive from such an outcome

47:33extraordinary There's also a very interesting dichotomy um Because there's an inversion of reality, you know, you can go then you can say to people Guys, it's not actually like that Ah, but germ Yes, a video of Jordan Peterson who's never been to China saying that they they they they have screens You know on the streets where they make an example of people who Jay walk. No I didn't see that anywhere. It doesn't exist But no, it doesn't exist but but but it's it's it's as Carl says it's Western projection Okay, because the own system is imploding And they don't like that so that like a cat that's caught in a corner. It's it's now it's it's what you call it um Um, I've gone blank There we go that you know, yeah, yes Um, and it's exactly that because it is an inversion of what is true Yeah, yeah it is It's a total inversion. I mean I obviously what I would really love to do is be able to further substantiate my

48:39point of view and my recent observations by spending a lot more time there and and yes, I say particularly there because It doesn't seem to be yeah, you know, sorry. No, I mean what okay, you're fine here too But the the point is that whilst China is at the moment such a vector for this you know It is a type of cognitive dissonance really and diversion distraction or all this sort of thing It would be terrific to be able to build up a substantial body of evidence and I know you know to my point obviously Really you can't speak about a place until you have lived there because of course you're never as a visitor I don't know how long you spend that you're never going to be subject to the same sort of um Influences upon your life until until you you know, especially if you're sort of Painting tax owning property. How are you employed? We're all those sorts of things so clearly they they exert particular effect on you But nonetheless, I think the more one sees more and travels the more and speaks to people because that's it

49:44You know, you just never know what sort of what kind of a conversation you're going to unlock and that and actually that going back to What we were describing at the beginning in terms of rubbing shoulders with people who work in a totally different industry from what it is that we are doing But actually the the mutual interest in one another's business was was was fascinating and I you know, I drive great pleasure from that and and and I think you know Gosh how bizarre I think but even in even in the United Kingdom It's still slightly it can be slightly awkward to describe you know working for UK column um Depending on who you are talking to and sort of putting out there what it is you do do and how you how you frame that and all of it You don't get an immediate sort of knee jerk negative reactions a little bit tricky, but actually This discussing this in China of all places, you know irony upon irony was very straightforward and people people absolutely got

50:45Utterly what it is that we do and why we do it and why it's important So anyway, well, I mean you know we could go on but no, I mean In As objective as sense as I can come here It was a totally fascinating, but but also overwhelmingly positive Experience and and I and I just reiterate the point that I'm this is not just uh comparing China with the United Kingdom this is comparing China with many many other places um in the world and I think it it It's the most popular country on earth. It is one of the biggest. I mean, why would we not uh talk about it? Also, it's history. I think the other thing that there's I think really then must under the surface be to an extent a terrific sense of perhaps jealousy because you see what what China But you have I mean it would have it would appear to be deliberate, but what China has managed to do

51:46Even at this stage in 21st century is is absolutely retained control over its So customs and it's yes exactly and and that it's fun enough. I've I've I've I should come from the Maritime Museum In Hong Kong which gives a fascinating account of the early days of maritime Exploration in China and then the conscious decision in the 15th century That it would not be pursued and so whilst that effectively left the door open for the Western powers as they came to be to take over great swathes of the the world via trade and you know stick um or Rifle however you you want to describe it What it allowed was for China to

52:46develop Inside internally, you know in its own way effectively unfast by the rest of the world Okay, and then that was controlled to a degree to a greater degree through having just canton as the trade you know the sole trade route and of course the language being Relatively speaking and still today very inaccessible whereas of course for the For the English language and the British Empire. It's been absolutely completely the other way around and again Not just trade but but expeditionary warfare intervention Whatever you whatever you describe it as and look at the things that people are complaining about now in terms of Migration in particular and this is this is why I think You know, Mike just they're going back into why he was talking about China from from when he was But I think this pertains to all the countries that we do talk about yes

53:48We are UK column news But a massive part of first of all the UK's history has been meddling in the affairs of people all over the world And therefore the the the backlash of that is is exactly what people are Identifying now so it is completely relevant that we talk about other parts of the world But that is a that is a critical distinction between Certainly over that period of history anyway between the way in which the British Well empire as it became executed its Ains compared with China which okay you might say that's that's in a way just a different point on the timeline in the China I think I would still regard really as as an empire rather than a country and we talk about shenjian for example being totally different sort of ethnically culturally whatever it's because At the time that that land mass became known as China Obviously the rest of the world was doing different things. So anyway, that's sort of splitting hairs

54:53Um, but it it is I think it is really really significant So I'll say the sort of jealousy aspect that the United Kingdom now, you know for a lot of people On migrations the big issue digital ID migrations the big issue uh sort of either Passive or very active racism or all this and the other But in fact you look at why it's happened then it does make a Clear delineation between what people in the United Kingdom and from the United Kingdom We're doing compared with China and and how how that's how the fruits of these Two different parts are sort of being being born today I just want to point out also that uh Even though I've been called a Chinese a China shul or CCP shul or all those wonderful Terms which don't really matter all that much I still love living in South Africa um, and I don't know why I would be labeled these things if I

55:53If I say guys They are good and bad things. I think China is incredible. Let me tell you something You know if we setting a low bar Living on the African continent. It doesn't get much lower than that um, and I would love the past 30 years For us to have imported some of the stuff that that the Chinese government did with its own country Um, how how it Not everything. I'm not a fan of mass surveillance at all Uh, but they but there is Something that they did right a bunch of things that did right and a pile of things that we did wrong and We still live in a completely broken system here where is their system is flourishing So they are good things to to learn and they certainly are Uh, uh, bad things that you don't want to learn And I think that's a completely neutral and reasonable approach I Think so I mean, I think I think I think um to take the position that

56:57That China is a fascinating place but they're not going through it. Doesn't that certainly mean that you want to live there? Love the uh, yeah, yeah, I don't I don't think I do want to live in China But but I think a very interesting point to make is that all an important point to make Whilst I have no desire to go and live in China I do firmly believe that if I did live in China, I would be treated with Uh respect and I would be treated as In effect um Perhaps rather strange equal whereas I was talking to Um A couple of Hong Kongers Chinese Hong Kongers last night who are in their 70s with close connections but to Sort of the United Kingdom and British society and whatnot and It was very interesting. I One point that was made to me was that they would absolutely not ever Move to the West but not to the UK particularly because

57:59They would be treated like it in their words fourth-class citizens And I thought that was it. I mean, I didn't disagree with it. I absolutely agree with it because this is where this is exactly where people have been Brainwashed indoctrinated radicalized all the rest of it But but what an indictment to You know, and it goes back to this whole thing of of where we started the sort of infighting or backstabbing or whatever it is with the negativity And it's it's the same the the loss of Uh respecting One another is You know, it's a disgrace and um and we should be we should be learning or relearning from people that still hold that dear So I find that a very a very interesting comment. I mean, but we're only just starting Yeah, but that's so gone miccos that's that that is the point isn't it because because whatever whatever we're experiencing at the column um is is

59:03Is indicative of the types of conversations that are going on right across British society and Western society as a whole at the moment And because there is all this beckering and infighting and and uh hit for each other Um that that is your heart of the that's part of the collapse that we are experiencing I mean, you know I said I said on the on wednesties Extra I mentioned the fact that you know people are no matter what the what the regime is that they're that they're living under people The people that I've met in China are optimistic that they they enjoy life Um, and you look around you look around the cities and you know Chongqing itself the actual city has well 10 12 million people in it and the and the region around it as whatever the number is Charles thanks 30 It doesn't matter the population density is huge it within that city

1:00:04and but The streets are clean. There are no potholes in the roads uh the the the infrastructure works um and so on now is that because That this is where they are in their in their The cycle of things at the moment in the sense that that because that city has has massively exploded in terms of of development in the last 10 to 20 years Everything's new everything's fresh everything's exciting and and maybe that's part of it whereas in the UK we are coming to the end of a cycle uh and and so you know just just the the organization the money that it would take To fix the potholes in the road Is it's going to be huge, but we're not going to we're not going to achieve that with this constant bickering and in fighting whether that's at the political level at the top of society or Or at the at the small-minded level at the most local Local base. Yeah, so somehow we've got a we've got to take a step back as a society and and look around

1:01:07At ourselves and that and look at ourselves and and work out is this is this how we really how we want to live um and That that is going to be a difficult thing for us to do, but if we don't do it We're we're only heading and you know the direction of travel is important here and we're heading in the wrong direction So that has to be changed somehow Yeah, it does I think the the positivity and and the energy. I mean I We were we was going I mean we said it wasn't isolated, but Might one of the things that absolutely stuck out as such a common trust was seeing teams of workman road builders or whatever And they were all working and To anyone who's involved in that sort of trade listening. I'm sorry if this causes offense, but seriously Find me a team of road workers or whatever in the United Kingdom where any more than one person is working at any time 12 bloke standing around smoking one bloke working

1:02:08That is that is how it's done and and in try I mean this I know the sign silly But honestly if if you could tell a story About a country with one anecdote This would be it every single man Jack they just got on with it And I I do believe for whatever reason I'm not I can't explain the psychology of that I cannot tell you why that's the case, but I do definitely believe that if that's the way stuff worked in the United Kingdom Life would be very very different All right, we are running out of time. So this week was China next week Iran Yeah Yeah, but why not well there we go. I mean, I'll tell you what as a as a as a preview You know as much as as much as people get riled about China I mean the other thing the other thing that that UK column gets continuously hammered for is are you know you love muslims Yeah, well actually I do and the reason for that is that having been to Well over 15

1:03:08largely muslim or at least you know countries that have sort of based on some sort of Muslim heritage I have never experienced great hospitality anywhere in the world and as an example absolutely brilliant story driving in Uzbekistan Sorry wrong kyrgyzstan Absolutely in the middle of nowhere with with somebody I can't refuse taxi driver or whatnot the car broke down Like great, okay, sort of getting late No one that so What happened the next car that passed us drove us all to the first house that we came to The driver of the vehicles with a friend the driver took us to the house said to the people who owned the house Here you go they'll stay with you tonight because I've got to go and fix the car He then went back with the person who'd stopped went off to wherever got spares came back anyway So with absolutely no questions asked Two of us were taken into this house with open arms fed

1:04:10Provided with a bed. I mean absolutely. Can you imagine that happening in Suffolk No So you know So so why why are we so determined to do the all look over there. They're all bad projection nonsense projection All right, so guys there we are all right nice chatting Charles are you back home next week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah All right, good man. I'll check you guys Yeah, you're absolutely are back to the rear Yeah, I'm stealing myself for the return. Yeah Yeah, all right. Cheers guys. Okay. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye