The Wine Makers – Sonoe Hirabayashi, Six Cloves Wines

0:00The radio misfits podcast network from the birthplace of modern winemaking Sonoma, California You're listening to the winemakers with your host Danielle Lengua, Bart Hanson, Sam Catery, and Brian Casey Beautiful Sam. Welcome to the winemakers Today we have Sonoma here by Ashi here with six clove wines And special guest in the house too. Yeah, and special guest host. So as we're setting up Brian London Who is the song at TCP and I assume now be you as well? Just happened to be here and and seem like you guys knew each other So we said hey, why don't you sit down and join the show So you're welcome Brian, too. Thank you very much And we have just poured your 2024 shardon. Yes

1:03Where was this ground? Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for having me today Everybody to guess you usually thank us for having I don't think that usually usually they're like only if they sell finally agreed to come do this show Don't You're welcome Okay, let me talk about the wine. So this is a lindavas of vineyard sharnay from stemasize being very I have to say prevalence to get about two tons of grapes every year since 2018 except some drought year and Unfortunately last year, but I've been making this sharnay ever since so it is becoming my flagship Yeah, where's this vineyard? It's an oak no And those of you that don't know Yeah, he's I guess you call him grape grower vineyard manager. I mean has probably I think you used to be the vineyard direct vineyard manager for the idels

2:10Susan and Richard for a while Made the wine farm maybe he did both. I don't yeah, he's one he's one of those You know two way players right right Well, then came on my radar because He was making ribola geola back in the day Right. Well, he just find it from from there everyone who's geeky about wines They were like whoa someone's making ribola geola. There was like an acre and a half or something right in california Yeah, that's in oak nul as well Yeah, it was george very spingered and then when he passed they bought it Yeah, we were invited him to be on the show Uh, let's do that right now. Okay, hey I can help you Come by hang out bring some wine Maybe we'll record maybe we won't I don't know Yeah, but fantastic grower and um Yeah, that's really cool that you were able to source some of that fruit Yeah, absolutely Yeah, so I had a chance to actually help him uh rebuild the license

3:15beat up winery which is where his winery is located we're back in 2017 So this vineyard is called the fenix that the he was always buying Cab and I believe they do also have merlot or calf from the vineyard But uh the owner apparently wanted to solve the bingered and that came with the uh bonded beat up Rept infested winery So my role was to clean up all the wrap poo-poo's Everything then you can think of that you don't want in the winery. Yeah Along with other great winemakers We'll do you buy a bunch of cats and just have them roll around or probably should have done that Not winery cats man But uh, yeah, so that was back in 2017. That's how I met. Yeah, that I was actually helping Cool during the harvest time. Well, you want to go back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, so um while we're enjoying this great

4:25Yeah, um, why don't we tell us how you How you run into wine? Brian approved wine. Yeah, that's right Okay, so uh How I got into the wine So can I talk about my background? Yes, please do. Yeah, so um, I would have to say that there are Hand full of a Japanese female In the caliber in my industry including myself Who's being around for over 10 10 10 to I mean 10 10 years 20 years, but um I myself found that the wine is very very complex ever since I actually moved to This country over 20 years ago And started working for a Japanese company and working as a accountant In New York Which is where Brian's coming from, but I just fell in love with the fact that the wine is so

5:31So So different it is so emotional It can be even future commodity that you can sell or buy And also such a You know culturally so versatile you can always talk about there's always different ventures covers everything that I want it. So So based on my actually family background that my father's size Family has being in the area for generations and generations They were actually Salt March back in 500 years ago that they decided to try to bring in a salt from a node and Well center part of our Japan. That's how they became salt Yeah, salt was a very, you know, scarce commodity like sea salt were the more Sea salt. Yes. Yes. Yes. We did not have any access to salt other than bringing in from

6:34China Sea if not pacific ocean. So we were always scarce We probably must have had a lot of plenty of rice's Rice to eat but not salt So that's how my father's Side of families started engaged in something to use as a dribbler Of the salt becoming, you know, soy sauce and miso making and uh, yeah, and My The family has been making sake for generations as well. So they're actually Married with the much-making by their parents many many years ago, but I grew up with the practically the bugs are in my you know Environment the whole time and on on top of that my Great-grandfather decided to plant apples In our property over a hundred years ago, which is said that we brought in

7:40Cuttings from apples from state of Washington Yeah, why from what was it that that was like the best apples come from I was say so That was back in I was say 150 years ago probably that there was a time that japanese Countries going through a big modernization transition We I think a government wanted to diversify Agriculture Not just growing rice, but grow something else and my hometown Nagano Which we had winter Olympics back in 1998. That was the Johnny Mosley 360 mute grab like famous everything. Yeah, sorry They're all there So uh, yeah, so Nagano is actually in fact that the known only that If you ever ended up going to Japan you see lots of apples from Nagano now they are

8:42Uh Second or third biggest wine grape producing Area in Japan. What type of grapes? Uh, so that's a good question a lot of on wine makers wants to use a vinifera varieties, but they are prone to you know, they do not like a high humidity Uh, leather like we have in Japan, but it seems to be that um More uh rubraska or hybrid varieties thrive in many parts of japan and uh some actually some growers are making fantastic sparkling Uh wines from table grapes like a Delaware. There's a small importer based in panelluma now called sea priest I believe um That was started by a guy who jake who used to um Be one of the managers at valley and I've talked to them much. They're gonna they they were waiting on their wine

9:46To land uh before they could come on the show so We're gonna they're gonna have them on we're gonna have those wines some of these we'll try some japanese wines um Soon cool. Yeah, so I didn't ring anything today. I bought a japanese sparkling from chris renfro and his wine shop in same All right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was delicious. I'm sure that uh sea priest brought that in Yeah, so uh you up yet. No, oh send him away. Thank you very much For Stefan will be very pleased. Yeah, yeah Yeah, I would have thought just with the apples that seeing this will show my Total lack of geography. They're like Normandy where would be someplace that you would get apples from but to come all the way over from Washington, but are we closer? Yeah, yeah But almost finest. Yeah, yeah But you know, I think Washington normandy

10:47I guess nogano climatically pretty similar pretty, you know kind of colder winters absolutely all right, so so were you had did you have anything to do with um Making sake or wine in japan before you came here? Uh, yes So after I graduated from UC Davis in 2011. I did two months internship with my grandmother's family sucky Burley now wait a minute. How did that go because you They're probably they've been doing it for a while and then you go to college here and then you go back there Did you try and show them things and they said that's not the way we do things? Absolutely, no, I didn't say Yeah, you don't want to step on that You had all of this information that you actually went to school with, so was there things that they were doing that you would have done differently? I would have to say yes

11:52But uh, yeah, it was uh, definitely one of the one eye-opening experience that I would love to actually make sake here sometimes Uh, even though something else uh from japan Um, we grew a great rice in California Correct. Yeah, there's great rice out there in the central valley Well, and there was wasn't there a sake company in nappa where when you take that turn Yeah, like Jameson Canyon North Kelly Road. Yeah, yeah They actually went out of business. Yeah, that's what I thought so so maybe Maybe there's an opening The optimist bread Well, in fact that I actually wanted to talk about it later, but uh, I am a good friends was one one of the first Bay area sake microboror called sake uh, sorry, Sequoia sake Down in south San Francisco. I am organizing fun Japanese women's

12:52Makers event including myself my maker Uh, Noriko is the one-re-corner uh, sake maker and another beer master woman who works for uh beer bottle Uh, so we are going to have uh, interesting fun conversation about the fermentation Uh, in april 26 and uh, I am actually a Sorry, I'm kind of a spinning off all over the place, but I You're figuring it out. That's great to hear. Where's it going to be? Uh, so it is going to be at Sequoia sake in some south San Francisco. Okay. Uh, it is going to be on April 26 Sunday. We have three sessions, but two sessions are practically sold out But there should be still some opening For 11 a.m. So how do people get tickets for that?

13:52Uh, you can probably look for on the event bright site just punching um Japanese women in fermentation Cool. Those who are interested in coming to join us please do so. I just gonna be The first ever event that we put together three Japanese women from all different And you're also going to play a special kind of drum. Yes correct. The the tyco drum. Yes This is cold Miyake tyco Those who may have seen Japanese tyco drums on west coast There are tons of uh tyco drum groups Which uh, I was heard that he started back in over 30 years ago that lots of Japanese American community had trying to You know have a more like a movement to try to preserve their culture. So um

14:55Because of that there are tons of uh tyco drummers in the area. So uh, so this Miyake tyco is a sideway All-time squat squatting style a very uh intense tyco, but uh a lot of audiences love it and I love it And uh, it's uh, it almost has an essence of like uh, you know why I'm making that Many of you would know that you would have to pretty much push yourself to have a high adrenaline During the hardest time. Yeah, and the tyco You know Pretty much fit into that way that I can utilize that the physical movement And my sense of you know the focus Wait, so you're you're doing the you are doing the drumming you are the she is the drummer. Yes This wasn't like you're not like bringing in the wow, that's amazing

15:57I brought in the the drummers. No, no, you're doing the drumming and the talking about the fermentation and the wine making Yes, so in the selling of the tickets So that is going to be very busy Very busy And it's during during the cherry blossom festival that is also another performance that okay doing which is coming up in next Sunday Okay, uh in San Francisco. Okay, so there's two different ones. Gotcha. All right Um, well Brian who had to step way for a second, but um he is always comparing music and wine together because he feels like There's nothing else that exists that has This many interpretations of you know grapes turned into alcohol, but you know People's inventions of sound through the movement of you know, reverberations now Puts the wine in a different context. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, this is get tyco drumming acidity It's got some it's got some crashing intensity

16:58Feeling it all the way through your soul, you know Oh I really liked that he did uh Compare music against wine, but that I do really agree with that um based on you know who you are what's what you're looking for What's your need Even one single piece of music sound different, right? And how you feel it when you're drinking when you're listening it sounds very different and uh When it comes to why making that um After graduating you know graduating from a UC Davis that I was in doubt that the why making is really the art or Just a chemistry yeah, if you're good at in engineering or chemistry background My thought that I could make a you know fine wine, but it just uh, you know throughout my experience Starting my internship, including Tetlamin and other biodynamic

18:01Growers from other country that I realized that it's all about the art. Yes. If you lose a focus You're not gonna complete The drinkers or audiences will not get the message that I want to send to them. Yeah Yeah, I mean, I think I think chemistry is a tool and it's a tool in your toolbox But it's it's definitely more leaning towards the art Because no matter what nature is going to throw something at you that You know, you don't have a tool tool in your toolbox yet for it and you're gonna have to figure it out And it's gonna have to be like smoke team Like smoke tain or you know It's you know some weird not a rainy season or shriveled grapes or you know something and you're just you're gonna have to Use your experience and your knowledge and your palette to be like what are we gonna do here? How are we gonna push this through how am I gonna make a wine that I like that other people are gonna like

19:02Um with what I have did we talk about this short? Sorry, I had to step out there for a second not yet, but I didn't talk about your idea that music and wine are interconnected and so no way agrees Of course, I was not in fact the other day on Instagram. I was watching someone that was and I've you've seen this before where people play music During distillation or during fermentation But I think more and more people are doing scientific studies on it and finding that it's chemically changing the liquid Not only if there is music or not, but the different types of music that are being played which is really fucking weird So like the years when you get the stuck fermentations in the custom crash facilities It's because some intern took over the ox cable and fucked everything up. Yeah It just went death metal Yeah, you need a little fermentation you need a little twisted sister come on feel the noise

20:03I like to sing I like to sing to my east What do you sing? I don't know like lullabies. No, like don't worry. Be happy because I want that you to be happy Well, I'm actually speaking of that so my grandmother's sake burles well hard brother Actually, it was a big jazz fan So he actually used to play jazz in the cellar Yeah a long time and that was their PR market Yeah, but it makes sense because even with plants They've done studies that you know, you can put two plants In the same room and one you talk to I'm kind of like you do your child and then the other one you don't talk to And their shoes on at school. Yes No, you speak nicely To your plants here. Yeah, it does To both hopefully but the one that you speak to

21:06reacts differently and they they've done this study with water where they'll take two different things of water one of them you Give positive messaging to you just talk to it and the other one you kind of give negative messaging you freeze them And then the ice cubes have completely different structures in them and it's Yeah, the little little snowflakes are different. Yeah, yeah Late night YouTube and brands been doing no, I know those studies as well. I know those studies as well Yeah, no, but they're really cool. It's all about positive energy and positive reinforcement and how that can I mean, it's different, you know energies and changing You know vibrations and yeah, I I kid I mock but I also you believe in it. I know you do Of course And energy be gets energy. Yeah, so Totally makes sense. We've all been there. Yeah, we definitely have

22:07Okay, so you're in New York you are drinking wine When you're having an accountant is they're going back to Yes, I was just an accountant I'm actually like what every wine maker should start That is true That is true. You should be in account first Um, and then and then you just decide How do you get from New York accountant to UC Davis Thank you for asking me So I was on a suburban train every day. I see wait, so where did you live in what train were you taking? I was taking Metro nurse. I used to live in on The little town called Hartstale. Okay Which is about only 35 minutes ride into Grand Central Station every day I'm hopping on the train. I see the guys Pulling the Wall Street journals course. That was the first thing that everybody has to do right right But after that they get bored They pull out quick wine spectator

23:09And I was like, well, I don't know what they're doing. I was always peaking out from the side I don't know this guy seemingly working for Wall Street Yeah, I was checking the prices of the the wine Ocean Page I was like, wow, this is really interesting. I should probably start buying The wine spectator and I started becoming avid wine spectator reader At one time as I was flipping the page I saw that um UC Davis Is a wine school that they are actually Get in the donation from the magazine and they're giving up the scholarship to the students And back then I went back to school to try to get a CPA credential from city college and By the time I was more of like

24:11Accountant slash auditor for the big japanese corporation everybody hated my job And at the time I visited their offices They circulate the email to everybody's like so no, he's calling be prepared Period I do not enjoy that life carry in the hammer Right So um As I was trying to Shopping going on in the other room part in the background noise Gotta get your tight ice. All right, no matter what day it is So um So as on I was seeking a next opportunity After working for this same company for seven years I was um Thinking that uh probably I should do something that would not regret when I retire If you kept uh accounting job, of course you will be financially

25:13Very stable You will probably able to retire very soon Probably by now now I would have been probably retired but um When you look at the fact that uh me as a person who came from More like artisanal family in Japan that I did not see myself Comfortably retiring and do nothing. Yeah, yeah, so So the wine came into my picture like well, maybe I should apply for the UC Davis in state of completing my study in accounting So uh back in 2000, I think seven when I was able to get into UC Davis that uh A state of california was pretty much trying to contain the you know All the expenses that they they could spend on the students that they are only getting 500 students as a transfer students from outside

26:16Of a california uh parier So that was such a narrow window that I don't think I didn't think that I could make it but uh fortunately uh I was able to Transfer myself accepted uh to become a student Uh at the UC Davis. So uh back then I actually had a partner. I was married. I brought my ex-husband Old away from New York Transcontinental big move to Davis In the middle of nowhere Where uh two-thirds of population are all students Yes Rest is the you mind why making history Did we talk about this short now? No, not yet We have been late team pool a year. I just don't know how you made it. What was your thoughts behind it?

27:17Um, so my policy is that on I try not to make wine uh As if like If you have a beautiful woman in front of you, do you want to put heavy makeup? I like where this is going already You guys all right the answer is no no you don't have to So uh technically uh steam a size and I to to my knowledge that he's one of the most hard working uh better cultures You know area who is thinking ahead climatically So ever since uh as far as I know a bit by information is correct. He's being uh growing disc rips If not other grips since 2003 or 2007 and um I just can see that uh disc raves are so phenomenal so healthy You don't even have to dress up anything not even the salt or sugar or nothing

28:18Like a like a you know perfect like an organic solid that you don't need anything What tomato? So his grapes are definitely one of them. So why do we just uh bare fermentation um for primally um Occasional steering if I need to but mostly I do not and I also use um tet lemons uh Y-making chart name episode that I learned back in 2013 when I was uh doing So this is a hybrid of uh that Steve and tet lemons per se So low intervention uh I actually needed to filter that you're just because of more logistic uh reasons that you As a wine maker understand that uh right uh which I didn't want to do it But I needed to do it just because of the bottling line being uh every thing was filter So I needed to filter unfortunately otherwise my wines are usually low intervention

29:21Uh indigenous fermentation no nitrogen as unless I really absolutely need to Um that's just the way it comes yeah just the grapes Nice making alcoholic beverage And how did you decide on your vineyard sources or what type of grapes you were going to work with um So uh there's actually two dilemmas that I have um Locked one dilemma that I have uh more than half of my wines are sold in Japan No way yes correct I have been selling to Japan for the most in the last 10 years super cool So uh in terms of uh uh Japanese wine market uh when it comes to the share of a california They are still very behind They still stick with big high alcohol california wines that's uh typically preferred still uh in last 10 years that I'd be making effort to um

30:23Make something that's unique that they do not have any exposure In Japan yet from california So I tend to stick with uh pino and chardonnay because of that reason uh but uh the next red that I brought today All the springs of one will be a very unique vineyard We love important it. I've been looking at my chardonnay glasses been empty This is another great one and I'm reading whether to pour more of that But I didn't text you asked me to make sure that tries this chardonnay before we drink it off And then I think I saw that you did a grinoche pino blend Is that correct? Which I don't think I've ever seen before Well except for all those years in burgundy that Well it was but actually on the label. Yes But I when I the more I thought about it, I was like oh that must that would be really interesting because those They have some similarities, but then there's some complexity differences. Yes, it is a very interesting blend I just did not realize that the why we make gms

31:25Grinoche is such a great blending component lighten up a lot of The caluters and textures and flavor that the other varieties do not have Yeah, so uh my role has been uh ever since I started Making long and exporting to Japan is that now trying to showcase The great fruits and the face of gurus and Something that they do not see Daily basis commercially, but I as a Japanese person who can send more messages More reach to the more general consumers that I have been trying to do something different So currently I unfortunately I did not bring my third 24 vintage Cap that I source the fruits from Sonoma Valley right here

32:26I graduated with the my good friend Sean And Sean and Diego Who also graduated from UC Davis, but they have their own brand called lagoon They have been growing Grapes organically in this area I believe it they started back in 2018 was 17 So I source the fruits and I Broke them back to Japan about a month ago and I introduced that Cab was very little Oak contact was beautiful beautiful Cab from Sonoma slide that the many general consumers don't even know That exist So I was able to showcase that to one of the most famous Psalms in Japan Fortunately and I was tasting with five different pretty significant

33:27Figures in the California wine industry in Japan. They were so impressed that we can You know offer so much that they don't know yeah, they just simply do not know that California can offer so much Well, is there like a natural wine movement in Japan right now too because I have a I have a friend who makes natural wine And she's been traveling over there for the last couple years and I know that there I think that there are like Music like record bars that only serve natural wine. Yes Japan isn't interestingly It has been probably almost two decades that they have been the second biggest natural wine market in the world Period, why do you think that is? So uh, this is my own interpretation But I think it's a fact Agent cultures tend to have more fermented food. Yeah, and our cuisine

34:28We are so used to all kinds of fermenting Products whether we consider as a flow or not We take it as just something that's part of our cuisine and stinky Food is not bad. It's good. They'll see for you So that helped for the of particularly French natural wine makers or producers Give a lead way to be able to send out Which is kind of But but uh We we made fun of it like go you know Japanese people don't even know that it's a flow Right they can't sell in France. So the levels of volatility more and off-putting to that No, yeah, and like you know non-saccharomyces fermentation flavors and all those things. Yeah, I mean and also the the Brian's uh pairing Japanese cuisine With more naturally fermented naturally appearing wines probably makes a lot of sense too, right? Absolutely. Yeah, no question about it

35:34Yeah, I think you know just the fact that the flavor profiles are so inherently ingrained in In the culture that For me to be able to pair In that fashion would be more appropriate and more natural than trying to you know shoehorn into a burgundy or something from the road or something from from here that wasn't you know in that style Yeah, that that is definitely one of the aspect that said the reason why the natural wine has been so popular Never phase this right. Do you think maybe because of the cool fun labels to That needs a part of it too A lot of it has visually stimulating um You know advertising Assettock is definitely important As important as for French people. Yeah Yeah So how did you get hooked up with Alder Springs? Uh, I used to make wine at the small bines whose consultant is Byron Kasugae, another Japanese

36:42You know American person in industry, but um, I met him When I was doing internship in Chile In Casablanca back in 2013 He was still consulting The winery called Kingston From Casablanca back then. So uh, I got to know him for the first time that many years ago, but I was looking for um The new home back in 2020 and Byron happened to be He was making wine for test plots Trial wines that he he was making for all the springs for eight years So a week for riotals or just like In general Uh, that's a good question. Uh, so think about the fact that the Alder Springs is the only one grower in one region that they did not have any neighbors

37:50What's so ever Until we make the wines you will never know How the grapes is gonna come about Right, so Stuart Uh, I don't know if you ever had a gone to Alder Springs to visit the site, but this is very unique But very rugged very different Uh, poor nutrients So in order to make a grape step um that a consumer would want which is us uh to Stuart Uh, he need to make wine so that he can Prove that his grapes are phenomenal unique, okay Yes, and they play around with a lot of you sort of I guess unique for riotals to some people I mean, we probably know them, but there's some experimentation that goes on in Yes, uh, they do have a specific uh, trial lot Uh, I think they still to the state They plant at least 50 if not 100 different varieties

38:53I try to encourage uh, Stuart to plant the Japanese one and only vinaffera variety called a kosho Oh, okay, say more What what Was that a yes or a no? Unfortunately, no because somebody has a license um To sell the kosho in California, unfortunate green right now Uh, that uh, owner did not want to sell the cuttings too, so where is it growing in California then? Innapping fact And so and where is it going? Who's making uh, so his uh, uh, his uh, well, actually, this is a family uh, father and a daughter Jack and uh This is the these pink grapes. Yes, it's a pink grapes I thought you're talking about the people, but I could see that in the grapes So it's a definitely green uh, variety that it gets really a little bit of oranges color

39:53Uh, uh, as far as I know that Japanese gurus in Japan do make orange wine out of it, uh But so the flesh is white. It's just the skin. That's that really pretty pink. And it's a very high in phenolics So it's it's not easy in variety to grow. Have you tried to get some to make some? Have you tried to get some of the fruits? I do have to convince this jack and michelle to Yeah, sell me the grapes, but they're exclusively planting and making kosher right now in california Okay, I will I will have to reach out to that, but uh, we'll we'll argue on your behalf. Thank you So uh, anyway, uh, uh, Stewart is definitely one of the best gurus for geeky wine makers like us who wants to Make something different. Yeah, we hear stories about people going up there to pick up one thing and then you end up Coming home with three other lots of Grapes because uh, oh you want some of this you want some of that you should try this

40:55Yeah, that was Jenny. Yes Well, Jenny we were talking to Jenny Murphy about all the springs and she's the one who recommended you come on this podcast. Yeah Yeah, she's one of them Jenny Murphy from oxley ones oxley oxley grams Maybe we need to take a older springs because we need a we need a shake Ridge field trip Shake Ridge is definitely gotta happen because we want to hook up with Sierra wine guy as well as Cramer because he's shaking some shit up right now, which is great. Yes. There's no We could go to all the strings. I don't think there's anybody interesting else to connect with up there unless they're like dope growers Which we could do Sure Follow your nose Look out there. You could go to Farrington. Oh, that's right. Farrington's. Yeah. That's a pretty cool place I mean Farrington's more like Anderson Valley though, right? Yeah They latent villain Anderson Valley. I don't think or I don't Maybe they're close on a map. I don't feel close energetically. No No, I don't think so either. Not much as close to latent

41:57This is also true. Yeah, I got a lot of love for latent. I mean, I went to camp in latent. No forever. There you go Nice, huh? I got love for Yeah, I got love for it latent I don't know that I've ever been there I've ever driven 101 to yukai. I mean to like Um Past through not to yukai, but to yoreka arcade uh Up there you passed you latent well if you blink you miss it For sure. Yeah, most of the time I'm that's probably that's like zone out more churches than restaurants. I think yeah Yeah So um Why don't you walk us through this wine very pretty color Um, you know, it's a very pale, right? Yeah, very Delicate Many I'm sure many of the listeners who are big fan of older springs probably know that their wines are always very Kind of dry side whether it's red or white um So the color

42:58Never ever able to retain a color unless I decided to a pick really late, which I never do that I try to pick barley so that I do not have to do any modification As much as I do not have to in plus that uh, I do lots of a whole cluster inclusion As a result of a whole cluster inclusion that potassium settles The totaric acid plus pH will go up so Consequently, I do have to pick sooner Yeah, so well, there's also a lot of pressure on Picking later up there, you know, between the weather and the bears and the turkeys and the absolutely It's one of the spices you kind of got to get to the fruit before nature does, right? Absolutely For this 24 vintage I think my whole cluster inclusion was a little bit less about Well less than 30% Otherwise, when I made this

44:01You know for the first time back in 21 I did 50% whole cluster and was that based on like Because I know 24 was a warm So even if you picked a little earlier, maybe you had the acid was already kind of dipping Does that a reason? Or was it just the color of the peduncles or uh, so I think that year that we did have a malloc acid being high Yeah, if you remember right, so I did or not want to take a chance of a lowering the I mean lower in the TA. Yeah, we'll have pushing up a pH high Yeah, so I decided to do stem One of the the second lot I think that I got instead of a doing 50% whole cluster I ended up doing whole very fermentation And are you got how are you figuring this out? Are you having someone do sampling for you or are you going up there and actually Doing sampling yourself As there's all the spring scows We try all the Y-makers try but imagine that during busy harvest time you do not want to spend five hours going to sample right

45:10So they do typically try to Organize all the Y-makers visit by appointment They set up they they have a great crew of team right now that they schedule everything so that any clients Whether they live a very far closer if not closer Can come visit the bingered within the the window Of um the time that we expect that the grapes are going to come in to rip to target ripeness so um I would say that I try uh just because I live in subestable which is about two hours drive or I do it just get up What is that clock or down? Leave my home at six get there by eight nine. Yeah, and I do the grapes as much as I can, but As many of you may know that older springs Whether it's very similar to Under some valley which means that the higher elevation

46:13Sites gets something exposure lots sooner. So when the summer is very hot Uh their grapes coming very quickly. Yeah, where are you actually making your wines? I am making wine at the punch down in Santa Rosa. Okay right now And you're in subestable have you ever done pino or shardonnay from subestable or from west Sonoma County? Uh, I only made um The pino noir from a winter um Because there's something about those grapes is it um That you would that you maybe isn't in your style or is it the price of the fruit in that particular region is a little crazy Well, those two are one of the reasons uh that I have been a boy into me in question remember pino until it happened back in 22 um I have worked with so many Russian river pino all producers in the past in fact

47:15I can't even fit in my two fingers. Yeah, that's how many I made wine for other producers pino um I would have to say that uh, you know, there's nothing wrong with the Russian rivers pino nor but uh if you become a very um Custom to Russian river style pino nor that you can blindly tell You don't even have to guess you can tell So uh me as a person who consider myself that I should be making something unique Not something identical to other growers or producers Uh, I have been intentionally avoiding to make Russian river No, make sense. Yeah, you get lumped in with a bunch of other people too Yeah, I'm gonna get in trouble The old the old palette fatigue I'm gonna get the snow mechanic bitters sitting with dead horse heads to my head

48:16But uh, yeah, so nothing wrong with it. It just that uh because of my experience uh making great pino nor for other producers I feel like my role is not to replicate Yeah, the same way So is older is older springs farmed organically as well Uh, yes, um, so stew has hired three fantastic young viticulturist Uh, I think 34 years ago He is uh converting um Most of his site from conventional to organic and father step up is that uh, they have been um applying Uh, the new method called the Korean uh natural farming right now And their trellis system is not a boring same old ESP system, but they are also testing uh, the Overhanging trellis system called what's in the sort

49:19Wait, what does that look like? They look like almost like another bonsai, but uh, they actually put the wire high up almost like my eye level Like a five feet if not four They placed a fruiting zone above far from the ground so that they can avoid any frost Huh, like there's there's a tie in you know the tie Marry some old Italian in the sense that the Configuration or the way that we work is a lot easier, but uh, that's that yeah the once in a mess. So it is a lot easier Uh, friendly for farm workers who has to go up and down of those steep That's what I was talking about Also good for sheep so they don't heal your butts Better for the sheep and it's better you know for Hot temperatures too if you're a place. I don't know You know how rocky it is at Alder Springs, but in some of the rocky like carbon aviators one of the things that's happening now is we're moving the fruit zone

50:23Radiant he's revert the heat further away from that he'd bouncing off those rocks, right? So it's um Yet definitely moving the fruit zone up is I think that's happening as a sort of climate change reaction taller ones. Yeah. No question. Yeah Better for your back too much better. Yeah He knows great. I was from the color. I was Kind of like thinking. Oh, this is gonna be like, you know crunchy cranberry flavors But it has black and red fruit. It's got like carbon and rock in there. I mean, it's very complex Super savory. Yeah Yeah, well, it's all about the foods as well. So Stuart Decided to actually this plot is called Helmsfield Which is on the the hillside he decided to practically co-planting like a two or three different clones Within a section that One row is House one next is Karella

51:26The other one is four five nine and another one is pomade So I believe I have five different Clones that got into this wine and Stuart believes that that is how we get the complexity acidity floral Nose fruity mouse feel all kinds of goodness of a pinot noir So when you will pick up your fruit is it different bins have different clones or it's all just tossed in together So they try to pick differently so that I can Inspect the clusters before I decide to do You know either this time or cluster that's what I was wondering yeah with stem inclusion then because some might be at like different Places, yeah, they do look very different. Yeah, they do look very different. How much wine do you make overall? Currently I have been making about five hundred cases

52:30Which is a borderline Predaction scale For one person to be able to Somehow Run a business if it goes down still little yeah If it's go up just gets More challenging. Yeah, as we all know. Yeah And how can people Get your wines if you don't have a wine club everything is just sold directly through the website and then I actually I'm currently offering spring wine club Okay, now. Yes, I do have a wine club You definitely need to try that Grinosh Pino blend if that's still available Yes, it is actually going through the bottle shock right now. Okay. I don't be a bearable Very soon. Okay, cool. What do you do in your free time? Uh, so what free time? I mean five hundred cases. There's times

53:30I wish I had more time, but She plays the drum. Yes, exactly. And are you working for any other wine makers? And currently no, okay. I typically try to work for somebody during the harvest time so that I can get to see What other producers are doing and of course it always helps me to understand Didn't dig in Acquiring acquiring more skills and knowledge and become friends was more wine makers Was it Jen Murphy that had the special um tank built the shallow tank with the spout on it? Yeah Do you know what we're talking about? No Okay, I would just maybe think of it when you said you're kind of seeing what other people are doing She had a maybe one of you guys can explain what it was exactly that she had done. It was a shallow Tank because she wanted yeah, it was the like surface area of the of the The musk to the wine ratio that she wanted to

54:32It was like Uh, long and rectangular And there was also and there was some like sample valve things that she added that yeah, yeah, yeah But it was like you're saying retention level here 82 wine makers Reaching test, but it made sense because instead of the cap being in a small area very deep It was spread out rectangular. So it was a shallow cap That was spread out across almost, you know more like look like a little football field But it when you say that she learned that I think from Paul Hobbs There was something a little bit different, but then it didn't have a little um sampling spout on it. So then she had one made Wow, that's amazing. I would love to see the tank right uh, well you should ask jennif she just send you a picture Friends isn't that Oh

55:35Yeah, so what it will be friends after this Um, so what are you doing like what do you do in your normal day-to-day life? well, uh, so uh, what are your hobbies? So my my hobbying and other passion is tiger drumming. Oh, you missed the tiger drumming conversation Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went and saw there there was a group called ten dune that used to play at the shabot college This is like 25 30 years ago that used to do drumming It was like hour and a half Really cool. Um, it is uh, very interesting. Yeah music to perform. Is it meditative for you? Uh, not really So uh, I actually started playing drums when I was little um, I Evolved to become actually a heavy metal drummer when I was in 20s Meaning what like what kind of music you need to dig heavy metal heavy metal

56:37But I mean, I thought maybe that you were playing whose your inspiration is what Brian wants to know Well, it's just more to do is like a old-time stonder the greatest uh, probably metal music. Yeah, it was probably a block album of Metallica. That's what I consider. There you go That recently too, I think old generate of uh, people that in in terms of like as a music It's just a part I think they perfected But I stopped listening to them after that And I was time to say goodbye to Yeah, heavy metal drumming, so yeah, uh, but otherwise um A tyco actually has a very similar sort of um, sense that Uh, you will be in your zone To be able to perform right but in addition to the music talent that uh, uh, the great tyco performer has to be aesthetically spar as well So many professional tyco drummers cannot last any longer than mid 40s they retire

57:43Because it's such a physically intense Uh, why is it like super big drug? Why is it so intense like that? It's you're moving your body a lot Uh, I didn't know exactly why those drums became that big, but it was more to do with ceremonial Portus that we adapted uh The original form a muscle came from China Yeah, so uh, but somehow uh, back in and I think like a 40, 50 years ago that uh, those ceremonial uh, tyco drum became more Like uh, the the part of the music and we actually uh, have a specific order to call the kumi daigo Which means we play tyco in the group which is actually one of the more recent Uh, phenomena And so do you actually um, perform? Yes, I do So the event the the you you stepped away. Yeah, yeah, the

58:45The fermentation the three Japanese fermenters the bridessocki and the wine, uh, Has sono a doing a tyco performance as part of the program But but other than that, I mean like somewhere here live an aim on Saturday somewhere in Sonoma County Do you ever just do events at um, yeah, yes, um, I think it's almost uh 20 years since uh, the organizers started But uh, there's a Japanese cultural festival called maturi festival in sonorosa In May uh this year is going to be May 17th, I think oh 18th, I'm sorry, I think it was Sunday Uh, this has been around for many many years and I was always regular Uh, unfortunately, I'm going to miss it uh, because I have a commitment to fly to dc for another Asian-American Pacific Gail under a mass event unfortunately, but otherwise yes, those who are interested in

59:46Yeah, cool enjoying the music Um, you're gonna be going to the apple fair. Do you ever go to the uh? Uh, blossom. No, I was not invited to play pop homing on tyco, unfortunately It's possible is uh, yeah, have you ever been in sabastical for the whole um, uh, apple blossom the parade and the festivities that go on I just observed from afar Yeah, it's a little crazy Yeah But that's coming up soon, too. Yes, correct. Yes. Yeah The rate this spring is going the app, they'll be picking apples for the apple blossom festivals. Yeah Um, so talk a little bit about the the pino grinoche blend that you did is that from older springs as well Yes, and it was that did uh Did stew just talk you into getting some grinoche that year or was it something that you were super interested in trying well, I was um Well, conventionally, and this is my way that I always have a core to the righties to make every year, but I always

1:00:51picked a third one Spontaneously whenever I find a good grapes so last year I was looking for the third grapes and um, uh, I knew that the stew, you know, has been providing fantastic grinoche uh, syrah uh, the role in variety's also and um, I was just uh, casually uh, chatting with him and he's like, oh, you know, I have a lot of a great grinoche Yeah, do you want them? This sounds more familiar Yeah, there's no this sounds like we've heard a story like this before for a few times. Yeah, okay Yeah, I've got a little bit of this maybe you could have a little room also how um Uh, Jenny Murphy came up with her Weird like unusual blend, right? The white blend. Yeah, the white blend Pickpoll and send on Pickpoll and Shannon. Yeah, he was pickpoll and I I put got pickpoll and she was right

1:01:56Oh, no, and then when she came back to rerecord the show she didn't bring that wine Just because you just teased us just like you Um, so did you Did you co-ferment them? Did you ferment them separately and then blend? Yeah, and we'll I mean, we're very excited to taste it, but will you be doing it again? Do you think uh, I will probably most likely to get the Moulgournash Yeah, yeah, are you in love with Grinashna? I do I Didn't know that the Grinash is such a fun great. Yeah Did were you drawn to ron wine just for drinking before that or was this your like introduction into Uh, this is more to do with the uh, yeah introduction to Primality to Japanese market Um Like as I mentioned that the Japanese market is Very simple. No, a lot of people know Sharnay Pino cab but nothing else. Yeah, no

1:03:00So cool Yeah, I feel like it's another variety that has Unlimited pairing Opportunities with the cuisine. Sure, you know, yeah Yeah, no question All right, we didn't talk about labels. Did we? No, I said word the name or the name. Yeah, we did have less weird left the room No, no We had some of the Sharnay and wanted an acid trip. Yeah. Oh, you've got gorgeous labels. Well, who does the labels for you? I work with my Japanese designer every single year Uh, when I was uh Still studying at UC Davis one of my good friends Who are studying She's uh, she was another Japanese person, but she was already in the trade And decided to study why making so anytime when we are talking about the real world That we have to go out there after completing a program

1:04:02She was always emphasizing that you do not want to make Bat looking label period Mm-hmm Period So that always stuck in my head For so many years and I decided to spend a little bit more money to be able to hire Designer It happened to be that she was my original designer's girlfriend Who happened to have a great sense of uh, you know designing the label and We we were just simply, you know You know much made in heaven and say In the sense so um, this actually label um Is the modified modified version of um The club's flower. I don't know if you ever had a chance to google Uh, the club's flower You will see perfectly triangle shaped six petals

1:05:06Like my logo. Yeah, I'm just used to seeing it dry Using the clothes like that, but I don't know that I've ever seen a uh, uh, fresh He's just smoking high school with suicidal tendencies Yes Yeah, the name six clothes is because of my family logo Uh, which was um will set to be adapted when we um my my family Ancestor Used to sell medicine on uh, cool side back and Some hundreds of years ago. Uh, they decided to adopt Clubs six clubs in the center of uh, let's tackle um as um, you know, imagine it uh, back then they must have selling Must have been selling on orbs as a medicine. Yeah So it was not every family has a logo. It just happened to be they was sort of business related Yes, yeah Because I think that's a cool idea. I think every family should have a logo. What would your family's logo be?

1:06:10I don't know. I mean, we're Irish. So of course you think of the Stereo typical You know guy drinking a shot of james and or something, but um, but no, that's beautiful Yeah, the labels are gorgeous. Well, that establishes something you're a james and family not a bush mill's family, right? So that's um for the family look that's I don't get involved in the religious discussions when it comes to drinking whiskey Jameson's or bush mills in front of me. I'm an equal opportunity Partake consumer in fiber. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have to deal with any consequences either of those actions. So yeah So uh, one thing actually wanted to mention that uh, uh, uh, what makes older spring scrapes so unique is that I always get unexplainable like a darker undertone Or across like I didn't even know how to describe it. So I had a conversation with Stuart Stuart

1:07:10About three years ago I just simply asked him like why your wines. I mean the grapes are so different Why so dry and different and I don't even know how to describe it And he's like, you know, why don't I look at what's around in Arbingard? There are tons of pines Pine trees around So think about that all the uh, the grape gingers that are right next to eucalyptus Yeah, treat We do get those probably um Aroma compounds Pines or go into the grapes. Yeah So we can probably see that as used for a little bit more Um, that makes it such a unique interesting wine that um Lot of a geeky Psalms in Japan. I really like it too. It's like Rustic sappy to people watch drops of God in Japan. Yes, they do. Yeah, it's a must

1:08:14Study anything to do with wine. Yeah, you have to read such a great show Yeah, I've made it all the way through season two now. No spoilers. No spoilers. I haven't lost season two yet For episodes. Yeah, I think I can think about us peeing in the Cavari so Right, I just thought we really missed out on the opportunity when they like in episode two of season two Where they didn't know what the wine was that they were looking for that we should have put out an Instagram post It said it was a bottle of 1660 We know what it is. We have it get it now before episode three Yeah, is wine culture is like for Somalayese in Japan is that like I don't know. How was that looked upon? Is it looked upon us like uh, you know You want your son or or Daughter to be a doctor or a lawyer or does Somalye have a little bit of like you know stature Associated with it I wouldn't have to say that as much as I'm making effort to try to

1:09:20Make people drink more wines Wine is still not accessible to most of the people Unfortunately many many factors after the pandemic that all the goods are you know skyrocketing European wines are so expensive. Yeah, so expensive more so than the US. Well California wine To Japan. So it is just getting harder and harder So those folks who can afford to drink my wine Somebody who are in upper Really even your wine. Yeah, it's the it's tax the taxes to bring the wines over So let it go like the higher the logistics and margins that They have a similar similar almost like a three tire systems as well. Do you think that's because there's Socke being produced in beer is it people that own those companies that are trying to keep the taxes high so that people don't

1:10:20Because you don't really have a wine culture because you're not growing vines for never are there then is it Do you think it's other companies trying to keep the wine industry out or it's just uh, and it's just uh the Japan has been struggling economically in past 20 30 years. So they're just they were just about to Get out of a different what do you call it deflation phase right around The pandemic now that the inflation is hidden Very hard and their wages are not going up as much as we we are In the United States. So it's just the wines are getting harder and harder to drink in in return Japanese domestic wine Uh, making growing Industry is booming right now. Yeah, so According to the statistics that in my hometown, Nagano

1:11:21There Supposed to be less than 100 Sake floors, whereas now that the numbers of wineries surpassed In our area Uh, so that's been said Wine education is still going evolving in a different way Uh, hopefully more people will drink wine, but uh as a brian said that Japan has a very different Cultural the way of looking at what the alcohol has to be and wine is still a little bit of a quite a way to be able to be Uh, 100% adopted However, uh, I would have to say that most of my wines that I make are fantastic To pair with Japanese food, which I never realized That grapes have a lot, um, you know, tonning and phenolics and acidity that's actually

1:12:22pretty much common Um, among uh, real traditional Japanese food Particularly in vegetables, not fish And umami flavors Umami flavor to Yeah, so the wines that Of yours that get sent to Japan are they mostly being Served in restaurants. It's not a lot of like retail going on with them. We don't make a ton of wine anyway So it's it's going to Mostly high-end clients And that's and that's how we met we we actually met in uh, a socket restaurant in petaluma So I was sitting at the table at the at the bar and the owner Said oh well, I have this wine maker here. You're in the wine business. Would you like to taste her one? And that's how we met so no one has ever said no to that question. No, absolutely not So yeah, no, so it was great. So we tasted and I think it was the 23 Chardonnay

1:13:25And it was the Linda Vista from a thyson and the wine was great and So it worked out well. So we brought it into TCP and Did did not did did nicely with it cool You interested sounds like you were maybe possibly there was some Connection with trying to get a little bit of fruit from From uh enterprise This is a wild back. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I did grapes. We got grapes Got grapes. Yeah, I got to make more Greg. Yeah, Grenache and cab or anything like the Japanese of Uh, yeah, clients will love to see more from here Um Cool. We want to get and tell people the date of the event that's going on in South San Francisco. All right So it is going to be April 26, Sunday Uh currently uh, 11 a.m. slot is still open Uh, so uh, please go to event bright type in Japanese Uh, women in fermentation uh, the events still pop up and I hope a lot of people come and enjoy

1:14:31Very unique opportunity And to enjoy the music Yeah, yeah, yeah, feel the music Um, and then how do how can people buy your wines or get a hold of you uh, you can uh Look for six clubs wines.com and uh, that'll um just to pop up my website and uh, you can Buy direct online if you are local clients in Sonoma County. I will hand over your order. Nice to you. Okay. Cool Um, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much. I always appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah Um, anyone got anything going on Just but there's all kinds of things going on. Let's talk about it. Uh, Moonman district in New York City. Yeah, May 13th Uh, last year it was only trade this year. There is public Tasting at flatter and wines that afternoon 13th. So if you're listening to New York, uh, there'll be 10

1:15:3610 Moonman district wineries Uh, pouring in and you can buy actually buy the wine that because we're out of wine shop So we're pouring wines that you'll be able to purchase um, what else to go on on red wine Rose. So getting June 28th. Howdy Craven's gonna be playing here at the Tasty Room Dusky Estes doing the food, which is gonna be cool. We have the opportunity to hang out with her at TTC symposium and um Her and John seem to be down with bringing the bringing the food truck a little pig. What's it called black pig? Little but the truck's got a name. Oh I don't care. I don't think they got to figure out how they're going to fit that truck and trailer. I know It's a big rig they got But you can reach out to us for tickets at this point. They will by the time this show comes out will be available Um, wine club members will already have gotten an email or a red chirp about it But if you're not a wine club member of ours number one, you're a loser and number two You can still come um, but you would just have to buy a ticket for it. Buy ticket by yeah

1:16:40buy ticket and um And then the next event will be Stanley Mouse Appreciation party coming up um in August talking about August Yeah, let's get through let's get through bloom. Let's get through May Yeah, okay Danielle still got any gamma available for sale. Yeah, yeah Again, just reach out to me at either Danielle makes wine or jammed a boi wine on Instagram and I'll give you that Special code for $10 off a bottle. Oh cool for the gaming And I saw Isabelle just jumped into a limo. So it looks like she's out It was nice to have her here last a champagne in your hand off the ear heard and she was actually in the tasting No more than any other time that I'd seen her before mostly because she was coming into pull bottles of new vote out that To be like drinking every day now This like thing we sprung on her accidental new vote that we make in 12 cases then she's had half of them. Yeah But it was kind of cool. I think she's excited about making new vote this year. Yeah, yeah

1:17:42Yeah, and she did great job with the 24 tough vintage to blend the 24s and everything that she put together I'm excited about taste to great. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's getting married That's happening. You're not invited. I'm not really most people listening. I'm invited. Yeah, some of us Yeah, it was our first big day Yeah, co-student. You uh Brian London. What's going on at TCP and be you? Um just change the menu and the process of changing the menu at TCP the pairing you know the tc menu That's all good. It's too much. Well, no, it's it's more subtle hinting at change and then actual physical change Um, but But it's it's a it's a nice it's a nice combination Um be sure we're doing well. You know, we have lunch available now. So that's something new and brunch on sunday Cool. So yeah I was here. We talk about the cinema valley western reserve I keep seeing stuff on Instagram and um about it. So just tell me where to be and

1:18:47I think what time will be there? Pickers of us in there. So as we're going they put a name in the smell the name right They didn't put it they put a space between 16 and 600 so um get some boots and a hat I'm gonna be there. Yeah Oh and also by the way, we can we offer at TCP the uh the homage belong as part of the pairing. That's why I didn't want to change the barrier to do I know. I figured that part out all by myself And then at Bejou, we have the uh the 2018 uh Valomash Um, available by the glass. Oh damn super cool. Yeah, I'm 16600. Gotta get it out there. Gotta get it out there. Yeah. Yeah. All wine with the word six In the name. That's that's true 16600 and we should be partners. I think we just have to You know, we just have to do Grateful Dead Drew Grateful Dead tasting, you know, tasting parties and I'm and then drink 16600 and talk about Grateful Dead. It's not some clothes. Same horse

1:19:48I don't know. Can they you don't think you can buy those in California anymore. Okay. I don't I don't think so Yeah, for the better. I don't think it was good for me. It was it was never good for any People are just fucking vaping that shit. It doesn't matter. All right guys. Thanks for listening Leave uh Leave a review if it's good if not we don't really care