The Spirits of the Smith County Courthouse, Part One | Grave Talks CLASSIC

0:00Today on the Grave Talks, a conversation about the spirits of the Smith County Courthouse, with mid-10 paranormal founder, Stephen Denson. Carthage Tennessee is an asshole that the convergence of two rivers, and it was a strategic post during the Civil War, serving as a major federal base in the battle for the Upper Cumberland River region. In the heart of this small town, you'll find the Smith County Courthouse constructed between 1877 and 1879, standing proudly on the downtown square. This architectural gem, praised as the handsomest in the state back in the day, is a stunning example of the second Empire style, and it's no wonder that in 1979, it earned a spot on the National Register of Historic Places. But behind its elegant facade lies a darkenery history. The Courthouse, the second to be built on this site, has witnessed public hangings

1:03and untimely deaths, leaving restless spirits in its wake, like Jeff, who seems to rule the third floor, Paul, who tragically died on the first floor during a Christmas event, and a mysterious lady who haunts the stairs. Today on the Grave Talks, the spirits of the Smith County Courthouse, a conversation with Stephen Denson of Mid-10 Paranormal. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. I appreciate your time. Now, you are the founder of Mid-10 Paranormal, 10 Being Tennessee. How did you end up being the founder of a paranormal investigation group? Well, me and my wife, Terry, we had three daughters, and we decided to raise our children first before we had set out on the endeavor of the paranormal.

2:05But she is your uptight skeptic, as you want to say. You have to prove it to her basically, and she questions everything about it, which I like that. And me, myself, I mean, I've been around haunted places my whole life. I've lived in one when I was a kid. I've seen my grandfather while down the hallway when I was about eight-year-old. And he turned, looked at me. He was playing as looking at a normal human being. And I don't know if that triggered it or whatever, but just the shows come along in books. So we started mid-10 around 2019. And like I said, after we got our children grown and they were set, we kind of set out. We volunteered at a couple of locations here in Tennessee.

3:10And so we decided to take our team on the road, and we traveled coast to coast. We've got an extra team member now. Her name is Becky. And I actually, one of my twins, Bianca, she's been doing it now with us, and she's just, she wanted to be a part of the team. So she goes with us wherever we go now. And that's just kind of a fun family thing, too, if you've got one of your kids going with you. Yeah, yeah, it's rather she likes it or she likes to travel. One of the two ain't figured that out. Yeah, that's true, because it could be like, mom, and if I go with mom and dad, I can take this trip and it won't cost me much. Right, exactly. Yeah, how many people then do you have on your team? Just four to four. I think it's really important with your wife being skeptical. I think that's an important person to have on a team.

4:12You know, there's so often I'm like, ooh, that blazes on it. But I need someone like her to go, is it? And you kind of need that balance, I think, with a team. Yeah. So when you guys started investigating, was there a certain place that really got you interested in it or was it just kind of, hey, let's put together team, dive in and just see what we discover. That's out there. So, man, man, my wife, we, we've done it for a couple of years before we added anybody own. So we were hitting the Midwest. And when we started our Facebook, that's where all of our following come from, was like the Midwest mostly. So we started doing Iowa and Kansas and Nebraska and all this. So then we started getting into some events and stuff out there.

5:16And, meanwhile, if we set out seven days and, you know, get a couple of hours of sly, we go to the next location, do it again, you know. And so we kind of built it that way. But for us, like a single location, I mean, we love all locations. Even if it's not a haunted or active, it's just the history of it and the architect, you know, a lot of it, the looks, you know, it's just, that's what I like about it. I agree with you. I love the history. I think that's so fascinating. I love being in old buildings. Now, I'm not brave like you. I'm not going to go spend the night in any place. But I love going in them. I'm just, I think for me, because I dig up in a haunted house as a kid, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to live like that again.

6:17I'm always, I'm always afraid I'm going to bring something home. I'm like, one haunted house in my lifetime was enough. But I think it really does spark you into a lifelong curiosity. Obviously, I'm sitting here doing paranormal podcasting. And so I think it just, there's a fascination. There's these unanswered questions. It's a, what was that? I can't exactly explain why that happened. Like with your wife, has she, I'm going to guess she's encountered a few things that even as a skeptic, she's like, I'm not sure what that was. She has, she has seen like your shadow, the course. But she has seen a, like a full body apparition at a home in Iowa. And it's like one in the morning in this little bitty town. You know, everybody's asleep.

7:18What a, it's very small. And she's like, hey, there's somebody on the front porch. And so I go out the back door because you can't go out the front door at this time. But there's like a mudroom between the front door and the actual front door. And that's where she's seen that little boy at. And I run around there. It's storming at night, I believe. And there's nobody there. So I come back in. I'm like, what are you, what are you talking about? So what you see? And she was like, it was a little boy had short hair and overalls and a white shirt. I was like, think about it. I said, this is the 2000s. I said, no kids wear that no more. I was like, you got me out in the rain looking for a kid and everything else. You know, that's, that's what she's saying. And she tried to debunk it. You know, if it was the glare or whatever, but she, she was pretty dead set.

8:18That's what it was, but she still hasn't in the back of her mind. What if it was this or something? But I, you know, if I was to see a child, I think my maternal instincts would kick in. And I'd be like, what are you doing? You've got to get home. You know, what are you doing here? And so obviously, you know, I just saw that. I've got to figure out how to get this kid home. And if the kid all of a sudden ain't there, then it's like, what did I see exactly? Right. So do you have any places? And we're going to talk about a couple in a minute. But outside of the two, we're going to talk about tonight. Do you have any places that you have investigated that you really connected with? Or it was like, this place is active in a way that really peaked your curiosity and interest or something that was just a little different to you? Or do you kind of find that, I guess, once I said that, it made me think,

9:19there's probably every location has an aspect of that. Well, there's some that kind of get to, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to say kind of your favorites. Edinburg Manor. And Iowa, that's one of my favorites. We've actually got it coming up. That's one of my favorites. There, then, of course, the building that we have now, that's, I don't know, it kind of just kind of drew me in. And that's why I do what I do there now. And that's the Smith County Courthouse, and that's in Carthage, Tennessee. Is that where you live right in that area? Yes, I could be at the courthouse in like a minute and a half. It is a really great looking courthouse. If you think old courthouse in Tennessee kind of picture that looks like it's what?

10:21Three stories maybe. Yes. And picture that in your brain and red brick and it's, it kind of is what you would think it would look like. Did you grow up in Carthage or in that area? I grew up about 20 minutes west in Lebanon, but I've had family living Carthage. So the courthouse is something you've seen your home life? Yeah. And at what point did you find out there might be something else going on behind those walls? Well, whenever we move to Carthage, you got to think this is a very small town. This was kind of in the Bible Belt. And a certain generation kind of rounds upon that. So, you know, we come in, we didn't, you know, guns blazing or nothing.

11:22And, you know, so we kept quiet when we didn't know about the Carthage and did what we did. But when we actually come out and said, you know, we're with the paranormal group, you know, and then the city read you out to us, wanted to do some things. But what kind of drew me as is going, I'm like, you know, I know there's a lot of history there. You know, so I started doing in the history. And the people that knew us, that knew we had the paranormal group. They would tell us all the time about people seeing things in the courthouse and all of this. And then they had a active playhouse that was on the second floor. They did this like community plays up there. And the play director would tell me all the time he was like, this place is haunted, you know, whatever. So we got in touch with everybody and got it lined up. We went in and did it.

12:22And then we started advertising a little bit. And then small town. Once again, we become your local God. It was like, like we were devil worshipers or something, you know, for what we done. We're not doing nothing. We're just going in old building, you know, and sending things there. What are you talking about? But, but like I said, you're in the South, you're in the Bible. I talked to a lady yesterday. And she has a location in Bel Air, Ohio called the Ross House. And it's close to the Bel Air House. And she said same thing. You know, it's a little town. Half the town thinks she's crazy. And she's like, but you know, they don't know what's going on in this house. And she brought in somebody because she was just confused. She'd never been in a house like that. And her family owned it. And they never really lived in the house. They kind of bought it for storage for a business they had.

13:23And she's like, the whole town thinks they're crazy. And that's what happens in small towns. It's like if you kind of stepping outside the line, it's like, you know, what is Steve doing going in the courthouse again? Him and his devil worshiping. Yeah. And, and, and but it, I mean, honestly, it a lot of your people that were into paranormal. Here, they've kind of got a easement, you know, because we took the blunt of the whole effect. And, you know, and they're coming out like, oh, yeah, you know, we, we have this. We've seen this. You know, we got a lot of people now opening up to us. And, but, but still behind closed doors, a lot of them that have to uphold an image in town with people actually come to us. And, and I find that funny.

14:24I do because, but, you know, a lot of them's like, you know, we love it, but we can't do it. You know, because they have that image to uphold. Well, you can't be the mayor and go to a paranormal investigation because everybody's going to be that something's wrong. Our mayor is now a devil worshiper. Do you find two with people? I have, I think it's interesting. A lot of people, they go, oh, I don't believe in that stuff. But this one time, and then they'll go to, on to tell you a story that I'm like, well, how do you explain that? Yeah. You know, but I don't believe in it, but that one time this thing happened. And one time I drove by the courthouse, and I saw something in one of those upstairs windows. Yeah. And it usually starts out as one question, and then an hour later, you know, there won't be safe videos and pictures and everything else, you know, like, you know. So it, so it's good. I mean, I'm glad people can get out of their shell with it, you know.

15:29And did you say, because I find this really interesting, that there's a theater, like a community theater in the courthouse? They, they used the second floor as a playhouse. A great idea. And the, which they, they have moved now to another location. I think a bigger location. But, but they, they've done many a play. And, and I, I never knew, living here, that there was a playhouse up there until last year, around December, no, two years ago, December. And we went to a clue play. And it was, I was like, why? You know, in which I knew the courthouse, I had never been, no, I had been in it.

16:30And I investigated, because the guy that was the play director, always, you know, told me stories. And every time we'd get down with an investigation, he, he would call me the next day and like, what did you find? You know, all the time. And, but when I started telling him stories, it kind of spooked him to where he wouldn't go in the courthouse by himself no more. And, right, right after that, which I, it was a short lived, you know, knowing of each other, he had passed away from COVID in January. And so, is he there? Is he not? Oh, yeah. He, he was always into it, but was scared to death of it. And so many people, I have found that are tight, so many theaters, I should say, are haunted

17:31and by people who used to work there, because so many people, or maybe they were actors, or stage managers, or directors, ushers. I've talked to several, they believe an usher is still there. But I think people are so tied to that theater for different reasons, it's a passion. And so I do think they tend to come back and go to where they loved. Right. Now, that courthouse, now this goes way back. So this was built like 1879, 80 in there. Well, that, that actually is the second courthouse that's on the problem. Well, that was on that. Okay, so there was a smaller one maybe first. Yes, there was one built 1800, which Carthage was founded 1799. And the first one was built 1800. And it was basically like a one big room wood structure

18:32and it lasted for 70 years up to 1870. And so the courthouse now was started after tearing down everything years when by, they erected this one. They started in 1875 and completed 1877. And which it originally was two story, the courthouse now. And as the town grew, got bigger, they added a third floral to it. So basically they just cut the roof, raised it, put another floral and set the roof back down on top because it actually has, if you look at the picture of the windows on top, they're like porthole windows, the big circle windows. Oh, I didn't even really think about that looking at pictures of it.

19:34Yeah. And they wanted to keep them. So they just cut it up and raised it, the floral roof back down on it. And if that was probably late 60s, early 70s, 1960s, 70s. But there was a total of four vaults and a big safe in the courthouse at one time. The vaults are still there, safe still there. But it was built with no windows in the vaults where they kept all the archives. So they built it that way so that the Indians and the Union soldiers couldn't grow fire through the windows to burn the archives. Oh, that was forward thinking because you know a lot of places, at some point in their history they lost everything because they're not storing it properly, not thinking about things like that.

20:37And they are all behind, it's like a steel bifold doors and then you got a solid steel door that closes behind that. So I mean, it was kept protected. And every archive is in that book, they came back to 1799. But that was their way of thinking beforehand, you know, what ifs, you know, what's now that they had cut windows in there now? I guess just for light, whatever, you know, air circulation maybe at the time. Because they don't use it as the courthouse now, do they? No, it's been shut down now. Think about 10, 12 years. It's been said they can accept for the historians in there and I've only met him a couple of times

21:37or well, I've met him a couple of times. I've only seen him in there maybe twice in like two years. And he just, he actually has an office in there but this comes and goes when he wants, you know. So that huge building, there's one guy who has an office in there. And that's it. That's a big building. I wonder what that guy's seen and if he will admit to seeing anything because it seems like he... He's, I'm going to guess and I may butcher it, but in his late 80s. And he has a side deal where he finds graves with thousand rods. That's what he likes to do. And when they built the new courthouse over by the river, again, on the other side of town,

22:38he had to go in and find graves and they moved them graves to build the courthouse on that property. So they were basically unmarked or destroyed tombstones or whatever. And he went in and they exhumed them, moved them over to the cemetery we have in town. And he goes all over to help people find graves, like unmarked graves. That's an interesting talent because I was going to call it a side hustle but I don't think that's it. I think that's an actual talent because to use dousing rods and to be able to actually find them, like that almost seems like something he learned from someone else. You know, how do you... And it's kind of like... You can't fake it till you make it with that profession. You know, because if he's like, oh, God, it's right here in the person digs and nothing's there.

23:39So I guess he's got a good track record with it. I guess he's pretty spot on with them. I don't even know how you would learn that. But in the dousing rods too, that's impressive. That is impressive. So once the courthouse was emptied outside of him in his office there, when did people start... Or maybe it was something that people had talked about for a long time, supposedly that's haunted. And... Yeah. Like, you know, how stories go round in a small community about, you know, I heard this story and this person heard that story. So did... Which the courthouse still got to see some action time, you know, not very well on the inside after it closed, but on the outside of the property, you know, they still held William Walton days,

24:39which William Walton was the founder of Carthage. They still do that. They still do the maneuvers here. You know, all these festivals they have movie night outside the courthouse. They put a big projector, a big screen, and the whole town just goes up there and sets on the road, you know, on the courthouse lawn and watches movies, you know, whatever, you know, it still sees stuff. It's just kind of like they don't... Like, they utilize the space there, but they don't occupy it. How then were you able to... Did you have to approach the city council and say, hey, I'd like to go and investigate the courthouse and if I find anything, I'd like to bring other teams into investigate. How did that conversation come about? That was... It was kind of...

25:40It was kind of put in my lap. That makes it easier than having to present to the city council. But I still had to fight for it. I did. It was offered to me and I was like, let me see what I can do because I don't want to open it up if nothing's there. You know, I can't. You know, I can't put something there if it's not there. And so we went in ten times or whatever, you know, and we were getting interactions. And so I went back to home. I said, yeah, I could do something with it. And so we went council, you know, our town mayor. And it was like, yeah. It was like, you know, here's the rules, no alcohol and the premises. Yeah, we don't do that, you know. And so we made the agreement with them.

26:40And which it puts money back into the town. And, you know, I played at the case with them. I mean, you know, I was like, look, if people come up, you know, there's, it's the courthouse sets right on the main strip here in Barkley, on the town square, where you have restaurants, boutiques, little antique shops, whatever, and people come in. We do. We go into towns, we hit every little antique shop, my wife, she's a collector, and you know, we spend money and every town we go to. And I was like, you know, it's going to bring this in. You know, it's going to bring you money on different businesses. And which there's an Airbnb that I've got with the owner, and we kind of got an agreement. You know, if people need somewhere to sleep, he's gave me the chance to put them in the Airbnb

27:40for, you know, a better price. And so it kind of helps out with that as well. And, but it's, they were good with it. So, we started doing it, we started bringing people in, and then, more and more and more, and then other businesses have wrenched out. Hey, come do this because like the home town of Carp, I mean, it's, it's old, you know, and used to be Walton Hotel. We done that a couple of times, and had an event out there, and then it recently got sold. But, you know, we were booking it, we would book the whole hotel out at night, you know, for people to go sleep there, you know, and to book a whole hotel out, I mean, it's not cheap. But, you know, it brings quite a bit of money, and though, so that's,

28:41it was kind of a smooth ride, but we still had to fight a little bit forward. Now, did you go in and investigate first, and you're like, yeah, this is a pretty active location. Yes, it was, we, I'm going to say they started warming up to us, the more they sang us, and now, I mean, like, I just had his conversation with a different amount of day, we were talking about, because he just wanted to come back up to the courthouse. And, I told him I was like, you know, what we're getting on the third floor now, it's getting pretty, pretty ramped up, and I said, my name is, you know, it's been coming across devices more and more and more and more. I guess where, I'm solely the one that does the overnight and things like that, because my wife, she's an optician in Mount Julia,

29:41about 45 minutes west of here. And so she, she works pretty solid. So, in which, I have a full-time job in town as well, but I'm more, my schedule is more lenient than hers. So, I kind of, you know, take it under my wing to do it, you know. And, I guess where I'm there more and more and more, more devices, more names, you know, I'll be sitting there, people want me to investigate with them, the teams that come out, and they'll have devices out, you know, I'll just be sitting there, listening, whatever, and like, they're just, aches, even, you know, and, on an instance, this whole group was introducing their stuff, and I thought I heard something out in the hallway, so I kind of was looking out the door, and I wouldn't pay an attention to them at the time, saying their names, who they were, because it asked them who was here. And,

30:41I thought I heard something, so I was just looking out in the hallway, and they got done saying their name, and I guess, whatever it was, was waiting on me to say my name, and I didn't, and they come across, and that's Stephen. I don't know, I was like, yeah, that's my ass, I'm sorry, I was like, I didn't, how away it is, as you did, and I was like, okay, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't say my name, I said, but it knew, you know. And that wraps up, part one of our conversation with Stephen Denson, a mid-10 paranormal, about the spirits of the Smith County Courthouse. For more information, just search, haunted Smith County Courthouse, and that wraps up, part one of our conversation with Smith County Courthouse, or mid-10, that's T-E-N-N, paranormal, on Facebook. If you'd like access to all of our episodes, including the archive, and advanced episodes, everything commercial-free,

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