The Reunion: The 9/11 Attacks

0:00This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Thumbtack presents Tile Trouble Every single time I use my sink I make eye contact with the uneven grout on my kitchen backsplash. The crooked corners eye me and I'm haunted by more tiling questions than I thought possible. What kind of pro can fix a backsplash? Can I replace one crack tile or should I replace them all? What? But if I just use Thumbtack, I can hire top rated pros, read reviews and compare prices with a tap all on the app. Thumbtack knows homes. Dumb of the app today. Book a loved by guest property with Virbo and you get a top rated vacation rental that's love for all the right reasons like being in a great location or having great amenities. Oh, I love my Virbo for the view. Good reason. Ooh, and the sauna. Sweet. Another good reason. And that it's one of those goods to honest with the hot rock thing. Well, the good hot rock thing fancy. That's also a reason. Don't worry about surprises.

1:01Book a Virbo you'll love with the love by guest filter. If you know, you Virbo. The documentary home of the best documentaries from the BBC World Service. For this edition of the documentary from the BBC World Service, Kirsty Walk reunites a group of people intimately involved in a moment of modern history. In this episode, marking 25 years since 9-11, they reflect on the attacks of the 11th of September 2001 and the events that change the world. I'm at the National September the 11th Memorial in Lower Manhattan. There are hundreds of people here today. Some like me looking down into the two vast square pools that mark the footprints of the World Trade Center's Twin Towers. Some stand and simply stare into the tumbling water. Others have brought single white roses to put into names and scribed in the granite. Around the edges of these two pools are the names of nearly 3,000 people

2:05who were killed here on the same day 25 years ago. For three decades, the Twin Towers dominated New York Skyline. 110 stories high visible across the city and beyond. On the morning of September the 11th, Hyjak sees control of four commercial airliners turning them into weapons aimed at civilian and government targets. Three hit their mark. The fourth never reached its intended target, but that was believed to be either the White House or the US Capitol Building. The attacks shattered the sense of American invulnerability and changed this city forever. At 8.46 a.m., 20,000 people had already begun their working day in the Twin Towers. The first plane, American Airlines flight 11 flew into the North Tower.

3:05The impact tore through Flora's 93 to 99. All 92 people on board were killed instantly. Fire Department battalion Chief Joseph Feifer was just 12 blocks away. He gave the first report over the radio to the Manhattan Dispatch. The number of floors on fire looked like the plane was aiming towards the building. The other fire chiefs confirmed the severity of the situation. ABC's Good Morning America with host Diane Sawyer and Charlie Gibson was nearing the end of its broadcast. We just got a report in that there's been some sort of explosion at the World Trade Center in New York City. You're seeing the live pictures here. Obviously a major fire there is one report

4:06as of yet unconfirmed that a plane has hit the World Trade Center and you can see that there is smoke coming out of at least two sides of the building. It became clear that it was a deliberate attack when 17 minutes later a second hijacked plane United Airlines flight 175 plowed into the South Tower. It looks like a second plane. You can see the plane come in just from the right hand side of the screen. So this looks like it is some sort of a concerted effort to attack the World Trade Center that is underway in downtown New York. Well I'm in a studio just a few blocks away from the memorial site and with me are Richard Eichen Rich. Eichen who worked at Pass Consulting Group in the 90th floor of the North Tower. Joe Pilar, whose husband Jim Gartemberg worked in commercial real estate a few floors below on the 86th floor. Three first responders who went to the World Trade Center that morning,

5:08Joseph Fyfe, who we heard in that archive, the first fire department chief to take command. Former New York Police Department Officer Judy Castro who helped to vacuate the buildings. St. John's Hospital Paramedic Jimmy Dobson, who spent the day helping the wounded from the site. Rear Admiral Michael Day, then a lieutenant in the US Coast Guard, coordinated the evacuation of half a million people off the island of Manhattan on September 11th. And the novelist A.M. Holmes, who witnessed the events of the day from the window of apartment in Laura Manhattan. Thank you so much, all of you, for joining us. Joseph first, Battalion Chief, responsible for the tip of Manhattan. You'd already done 20 years. You could have retired already that day. What was the first thing that you knew about this attack? We were out in the street at a normal routine emergency of an odor of gas. And then at 846, we heard a loud noise of plane coming overhead. And we see this plane racing past at a very fast speed

6:11and at low altitude, so low that I could see on the fuselage of the word American. It disappeared behind some 12 buildings. And then when it reappeared, I saw the plane aim and crash into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. And then I had to get on the radio and tell the dispatcher, literally what I saw. And as you heard in the tape, I told them that we had a number of floors in fire and this appeared to be a direct attack. And when I walked into the Trade Center, I knew we had 20,000 people that were in the greatest moment of need. And your own brother, Kevin, was a fireman? Yes, my brother was Lieutenant in Engine 33. And he came in like other firefighters. He came in quietly and firefighters aren't quiet people, no matter what.

7:11And he came up to me not saying a word. And we looked at each other, wondering if we were going to be both okay. And then I ordered him, as I ordered many other lieutenants, captains and chiefs. I said, go up, evacuate the building, and then regroup on the upper floors to rescue those that were trapped. And I saw him take his unit and start to walk the stairs of the World Trade Center. Joe, your husband wasn't really due to be there that day because he had a new job. But tell me about him and why he wanted to be there. Well, he didn't have a new job yet. He was starting the next day. So, Friday before he had given notice and in his industry, they say, when you give notice, they say, okay, good bye and good luck. And don't come back to the office, et cetera. But he was such a nice guy. They said, you know what, give yourself a couple days to pack up and get yourself together.

8:12He was moving to a new office in Midtown, a new company in Midtown. And so that Tuesday morning, he got there early to pack up his stuff. I got to my office and he had left a voice mail on my machine. And he basically said, this is a fire on my floor. I don't know if I'm going to be okay and I love you. And I spoke to him and he basically said he was trapped and he didn't know what was happening. And then as time went on, I got to speak to other people and we kind of piece things together. And I left my office on the Upper East Side, took a bit with his mother, who was also on the Upper East Side. And I walked out of my office and I looked downtown and I saw smoke coming from the World Trade Center. And I said, he's not going to be okay. And I'm screaming in the street, like screaming in the street and people looking at me like, what's happening with this woman? Nobody knew. Nobody understood until it really came out to the news. What was happening? And what floor was he on? He was on an 86th floor of the North Tower.

9:12Rich, you two were in the first week of a new job on the 90th floor of the North Tower when the attack happened. And the impact of that first plane was just a few floors above you. Can you just describe what was happening? I was in a hallway, not actually in my office, which faced North. We actually put our desks up against the windows there because we like to look down at the Empire State Building. And so I'm there behind some fire doors, luckily for me. And suddenly I hear this bang. And then shortly after that, I heard, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I found out later on that was the airplane actually tearing through the building. And you also then were aware of people in trouble right around you? The door to the ladies room slammed open against the hinges and out came, it looked like a flame thrower. This large plume of flame. And on the other side of this corridor, the wall seemed to bubble with flame and like it was alive.

10:15And coming from the corridor on my left side from Bank of China, this poor man came over with his arms split out. His skin hanging. He had been completely burned to being unrecognizable. And he begged for help and then fell and died between my legs. My survival trigger came on, which is I had a five month old baby at the time. And it's like, all right, I got to survive for this baby. I need to get out of here. And I saw that in the corner, there was a set of glass doors that were intact and the lights were on. And that's where the other four people were. And we were the five that got off that floor. Luckily for us, the stairwell on our side was the one that had remained intact. Judy, you knew that stage the world trade center well. You know, you'd work around there. You were an NYPD. You've been there many, many times before. Explain where you were when the planes hit. I was a block away from the world trade center. And I see the plane and I'm looking at this plane and I'm saying to my partner that plane looks really low.

11:24And as I said, low, it hit the building. So we drove up, stepped out the car and we started to evacuate. Were you aware of the second plane hitting the south side? Yes, I was standing in front of the south tower. I happened to look up because I heard the noise. I looked up and the plane hit the building. Jimmy, you and your parametric partner, Melvin, you were already responding to an emergency that morning. And then the plane hit the second plane hit. We came out of a hospital in Queens that's closest to the 59th Street Bridge to go into Manhattan. And so they told us to stage there and find out if we were going in. So we drove to the entrance and waited. And then the lieutenant tells us we're going in. As we're going in, my partner, Marvin, his phone rings. It's his girlfriend.

12:25She said another plane hit the other building. So Marvin looks at me as terrorism. And as it were, you lost your partner, Marvin, for a while. Yes, when we first went down to church street, which is very narrow, we started telling people, get away from the scene. This is terrorism. And a lot of people were just going in stores and getting cameras and taking pictures of this. So and we're trying to get them out of the way. So then we go down very soon. We get to church. And he gets out on one side and I get out on the other. Someone tells him this person's having a heart attack on Broadway. And we usually don't split up. So then I don't see him. And you were in your apartment. Yeah. Early that morning, what could you see? What were you doing? Well, I had started a new fellowship at the New York Public Library the day before. And as a writer and novelist, I'm mostly home working. And so I was late.

13:25And the phone rang and it was my partner at the time who was a pediatrician at St. Vincent's hospital. And she said to me, go to the window, look out a small plane hit the World Trade Center. And so I went to the window and have a direct view downtown of the World Trade Center. And I'm looking and I see the first building with a, you know, basically a large dent in it. And then as I was talking to her, I saw the second plane coming and I said, there's another plane coming and it's heading straight for it. And then I said, it hit and I remember saying we're under attack. And then I said, you need to come home, which said we're on lockdown. For me, watching reality and the landscape that I think of as the terra firma that allows me to be a fiction writer, all of a sudden become unstable, shifted a lot of things so that I then became a witness and felt the need to continue to bear witness. And I actually picked up my camera and I just started shooting pictures and then, you know, shooting, shooting, shooting and watched the buildings fall down and then I was went outside and started seeing people coming up the West Side Highway.

14:33I live right by the highway and, you know, covered in ash and trying to help people and offering people water and all the kinds of things that everyone did that day. Well, we're going to hear some more recordings from September the 11th, including a call which Jill, your husband made to a TV station as he was trapped in the building. And you have given us permission to use it today. We had a big bang and then we saw smoke coming out and everybody started running out and we saw the plane on the other side of the building and there was smoke everywhere. And people are jumping out the windows. So it's horrific. I can't believe this is happening. In the minutes after the attacks, thousands of calls flooded into the city's 911 system. 130 of them came from inside the towers. Dispactors instructed emergency services and were to find trapped office workers. The tower man that rescuers would know where to find him.

15:48Jim Gartenberg called WBC TV from the 86th floor of the north tower and spoke to anchor Steve Bertelstein. Jim Gartenberg joins us. He was on the 86th floor of Natural Witch Tower. Was it these north or south, Jim? It's the World Trade Center one and it's not was. I am here and I'm stuck right now. Now, you are you a bug Jim or below? I have no idea. I have no idea where the plane hit. It's my understanding that it's a plane. The first thing that I want to make clear is that I'm stuck on the 86th floor. I'm a fire door has trapped us. debris has fallen around us and part of the core of the building has blown out. How many people are with you Jim? I'm with one other person and I'm told that people are aware of this. I'm on the 86th floor on the east side of the building facing the east river. And what time did you get on the air? I want to tell anybody that has a family member that may be in the building that the situation is under control of the moment. And the danger has not increased. So please all family members take it easy. Jill, you were, as you said, at your mother-in-law's by then.

16:52Your husband's interview just sounds like a man who is he was calm or trying to become. He was the only one of everyone who was optimistic and he said things are under control at the moment. If anyone is a family member in the building, everything's okay. Like nothing was okay. Nothing was okay for anybody. And it was complete nutter chaos. And you know, just to hear him become, it's, you know, it gave me a moment of, wow, like what an extraordinary person he is trying to like work through this. And thinking of others. I mean, he was completely selfless when he was speaking live on air to the news. And at this point you have a young child but you're also pregnant. Correct. So you're trying to keep calm for your own health as well. Correct. I did two and a half year old and I was three months pregnant. So I was, you know, newly pregnant. Now people didn't know so all of a sudden, you know, the days that followed. And by the way, I'm pregnant, you know, with the special gift he left for me. But right at that point, Joseph, you're in the command post at the lobby of the North Tower.

17:53And as you said at the beginning, you were sending a fireman, including your brother. And did you ever hear from your brother again? After I sent them up, I didn't. But firefighters were racing up the stairs. And as they were going up, people were coming down and they told people don't stop. Keep going. And we know that that made a difference of those that survived. But the game plan was to get up there to Jill's husband and rescue him. And they carried host and it's sort of carrying about 60 pounds of equipment. But you only can imagine what the conditions were up there that people made a decision to jump. Or they were pushed out by the fire or or to stay in the building and be burned by the fire. And I can remember being in the lobby and outside the trade center. There's a plexiglass that covers the entrance to the lobby. And I could hear a stud. And then it would repeat again and again every minute.

18:58And I got so frustrated, I got on the PA system. And I said, hold on. The firefighters are coming to get you. And you didn't miss that too. Yes. You were here. The thuds. As they fell. And you were helpless because we couldn't save them. And I can only imagine how they felt. They had no other choice. And the reason I ask you that is because your job also that day was to try and keep people around you calm. Yes. But a lot of people, they didn't listen when you're trying to get them to safety and tell them to leave. They didn't want to leave. A lot of stores you told them leave. And they would just, oh no, no, we're good.

19:58And AM, as you say, you bore witness, but there was nothing that you could do. And I wonder for a lot of people in New York that they felt they couldn't help. I think, I mean, on the one hand, there's absolutely a sense of helplessness. You're seeing something that is an act of war. It's unfathomable as it's happening. You just think, is this real? Am I in a horror film of some sort? And every person you run into confirms that they're in the same horror film. But it changes people forever. And being there and being also in New York in the days after that when there was no, there was no newspaper downtown. There was no traffic. There was the smell of smoke at one point. I thought my building was actually on fire. I remember calling 911 because it was that strong one night. Just before half past nine, a clearly shocked president George W. Bush made his first public statement from the library of the M. E. Booker Elementary School in Florida. Two airplanes have crashed into the World Trade Center in an apparent terrorist attack on our country.

21:06I have spoken to the vice president, to the governor of New York, to the director of the FBI. And I've ordered that the full resources of the federal government go to help the victims and their families and to conduct a full-scale investigation to hunt down and to find those folks who committed this act. Almost as soon as the president had finished speaking, a third hijacked plane, American Airlines flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the American Defense Department in Washington. This is a major development. The Federal Aviation Administration has shut down all air traffic nationwide. This country has been immobilized by these terrorist attacks in terms of air travel today. Also targeting Washington was a fourth plane, United Airlines 93. Realizing what was happening, passengers attempted to overpower the hijackers and eventually forced them to crash the plane in an empty field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

22:07All 44 passengers and crew were killed, but there were no fatalities on the ground. And I mean, George W. Bush was quick to call it terrorism against the United States. But when you heard about the Washington plane, what did you think was going on? As this is beginning to unfold pretty quickly, what's also happening on the ground in New York is we're all starting to take attendance. Have you heard from this person? Do you know where that person is? Is this person safe? Who's at the hospital? Who's here? Who's there? And so all of those things are sort of unfolding simultaneously. Who's picking the kids up from school? Right, so all you have to think about, this is a city that was in the middle of its morning. And all of these things are happening in the local schools right there downtown. Some of those parents aren't coming home now. Rich, you found that stairwell that wasn't destroyed. So can you just describe what it was like coming down and who else was on the stairs? What was actually happening? Well, I went to, I mean, that office in the corner and I organized a search party to see if there was anybody anywhere on the floor that we could access.

23:09And we didn't find anybody. And we're on the 90th floor and we're looking at the window and we see parts of the building falling. Then we realized that the see our ceiling was starting to smolder. So it was pretty obvious we had to leave. And then we were in the hallway going around pieces of debris until we found that stairwell. And as soon as we entered the stairwell, we were back into the land of light and fresh air. The steps were extremely slippery and people were falling. But when I first got in there, there was almost nobody on the stairwell because you know, five people got off us and five people got off 91 and that was it. But as we got down lower and lower, we saw more and more people. And then I actually find my first firefighter somewhere in the 40s who helped me with this woman who had passed out. And we took her down a couple of floors. And then she came back to with the help of the firefighters there. Michael, for you, you are the chief coast guard at this stage. Tell me how you thought the demite unfold when the planes hit.

24:13So I initially was just sent over to relay information. When tower two collapsed, we had our antennas on there to talk to all of the coast guard in the region. But we'd lost our ability to communicate. When the first tower was hit, we'd sent it just a small boat over. We thought it was a land event primarily. But we arrived on scene, the tip of Manhattan. There were people jumping into the waters swimming to Brooklyn and Governor's Island, bridges, tunnels were closed. And I think people just didn't know what to do. They wanted out of the situation no matter what. So that's a dangerous waterway boats, you know, this is exagging across. So it started off rather slowly that New York waterway, a local operator, where it's pulling some people off. So at that point, I made a call on the radio for all available boats that want to help with evacuation, reported to Governor's Island. And at that point, it was just broadcast and multiple boats started of all size and shapes started responding.

25:13You know, the Staten Island ferry, small pleasure boats, tugs and barges and dinner cruisers. And it's just so many boats are showing up. And sometimes they wouldn't have their cruise with them, their coast guard crew. And I remember a captain from a dinner cruise, I said, hey, I've got these New Jersey state police officers. Can I use them as crew? I said, yeah, of course you can. You're not going to arrest me. Oh, no, we're not going to, you know, do what you can, you know, safely, what you can do and just get these people out of here. And we're going to talk a bit about that later on. But Rich, you got eventually to the bottom of the tower. Can you describe what happened to you then? Sure. This woman Lucy, who I help down, sometimes carrying or sometimes just supporting her weight. We were down in the lobby and there were some security guards yelling run, run. Don't look, don't look. So of course, naturally, response, I look to my right through the remaining window. There are open. I can see the plaza between the two buildings, completely covered with debris and bodies. But I was four steps actually on to church street.

26:17When somebody yelled behind me, watch out. And I turned and I looked up and I could see the antenna on the top of one world trade start to kind of go back and forth like a child's top. But it slows down. It gets unstable. And then it just collapsed. And I saw it actually start to pancake and then I ran, jumped over the hood of a car and was very fortunate in that I wasn't caught in the debris. But I don't think I missed it by very, very much. This is the documentary from the BBC World Service marking 25 years since 911. We hear from those who were intimately involved in the events of that day and whose lives were changed forever. Looking for the perfect rental? Discover top rated stays loved by guests rated highest by real guests through authentic reviews. These traveler loved stays are recognized by the details that matter most and

27:18validated by real experiences. Choose confidently for rentals you can trust. Verbo book now of occasion rental loved by guests. One thing I love about music is how everybody has a different answer when you ask what song shape of the culture that is exactly what the Sprite Living Track list is built for. It brings together 50 tracks that help define hip hop from classics like cream and rappers to like to know moments like March Mattness and TGIF. The best part is that lyrics and titles from those tracks extend to limited edition collectible packaging across Sprite and Sprite Zerl Sugar bottles and cans with stories and breakdowns behind the bars check out the full Sprite Living Track list through the link and our show notes play it, debate it, collect it. The AT&T guarantee is all about having your back with AT&T Internet air your home Internet is backed by the AT&T guarantee and the rare event of a network outage

28:19you'll automatically get a credit for a full day of service. It's like waking up from a nap the warm blanket resting on your shoulders. Visit at at.com slash guarantee to learn more when the connection matters. It has to be AT&T credit for Internet air downtime lasting 20 minutes or more restrictions and exclusions apply see ATT.com slash guarantee for full details. The second building that was hit by the plane has just completely collapsed at 9.59 a.m. The ABC reporter Dan Dahlor spoke anchor Peter Jennings. The whole site has collapsed. The whole building has collapsed. The building has collapsed. There is panic on the street. We're talking about massive casualties here at the moment and we have whoop. More than 3,000 people were killed in and around the two towers.

29:20The collapse of the first tower meant that the air was filled with pulverized concrete and shattered glass. A giant plume of smoke surged through the streets of Lower Manhattan. Paper fluttered overhead like confetti. Half an hour later, WNBC's Sue Simmons was an air when the North Tower also collapsed. This is a live picture. We are seeing the second world trade tower center. World Trade Center tower number one has just collapsed ladies and gentlemen. You see it live in our picture. Gosh, this is an unbelievable. It's incredible. incredulous. incredulous. WNBC's Greg Kelly was on the streets of Lower Manhattan. You can see a massive plume of smoke. People are running away from the area. You can see the plume of smoke is coming in our direction. Let's get out of here Ralph. We're going to leave because the smoke is coming right at us. As another cloud of smoke and ash swept through Lower Manhattan, Mayor Rudy Giuliani ordered the evacuation of the area. Other than Lower Manhattan, where people should evacuate and the police and fire will help you.

30:21Everybody else should remain calm. They should remain at work or in school. He spoke to local cable TV presenter Sharon Dizenharks. Marjorie Giuliani, do you have any sense of the order of magnitude of injuries and deaths? I do not accept it. It's horrendous. I was down there and watched it and saw people jumping out of the world straight. It's a horrible, horrible situation. And the thing to do now is to evacuate Lower Manhattan in an orderly way. And Michael, that orderly way was what you managed to create with the fortilla. So close to 200 vessels responded and estimates are over half a million people within nine hours. We're taking off. Was it people just trying to get out of Manhattan? Were you actually taking injured people across? We were taking injured people across. They're coming to the water side. There was a thought that there'd be ten times more injured. So the people we were moving weren't... They were the walking wooded way of putting it. So we were bringing them to New Jersey to leave the hospital space free in Manhattan.

31:23Because we thought everyone thought there'd be a lot more catastrophic injuries coming. And I can remember getting radio calls from New Jersey and it was very frustrating because it's... We have a hundred ambulances here waiting. Bring the injured here and 50 here and they were telling us all these staging areas where ambulance were. And they said bring us the injured, bring them where there aren't that many injured to bring. Can you just give us a sense, Judy, of all of you actually, of the debris, of what it was like trying to operate in that area? Joseph first and Judy. After the South Tower collapsed, the entire lower tip of Manhattan goes completely dark in heavy smoke. You couldn't see the hand in front of your face. And I gave an order in complete darkness. I said, command to all units in Tower One, evacuate the building. Which sounds like an obvious thing now to do. But with, I think it was the first time in history that a fire chief get an order to evacuate the firefighters while people were still in the building.

32:27And as I started to lift the smoke, I remember walking back to the trade center because I was only a half a block away where I ran for my life. And when I returned, I saw a twisted steel and crumbled concrete all over the place. Acres and acres actually 16 acres were covered. And we wondered at that moment was anybody alive. And we started to search. But as we searched, there was steel. It was ready to collapse onto our rescue teams. And there were holes that you could fall in. So it was a very dangerous situation. I was trapped in the building when the first tower, half of the first tower fell. I was trapped in the building and you cannot see anything.

33:27It was pitch, pitch, black. A lot of debris flying around. We were choking. Couldn't breathe. I, I was just waiting to die. I was crawling because I couldn't stand up and I'm touching people. Touch them and I shake them. Are you okay? If they responded, I knew they were okay. A lot of people responded. A lot of people didn't. I was looking also for the gun belts that we wear. So that I knew if there were any other officers. My partner at the time I yelled for him. He responded, but I didn't know where he was. So I kept crawling and went down an escalator. And I found someone with a gun belt who was an officer. So I said, are you okay? And he said, no, I'm not.

34:30I can't move. My shoulders are off. And I have glass in my back. I can't move. So I said, well, we're going to move today. So I basically shimmyed under him, put him on my back. You're so small. You find strength. My adrenaline was going. And I started crawling with him on my back on the stairs. When I got to the top of the stairs, I felt some shoes. And it was my partner. So we both picked him up. We started to move to see if we could find an exit. Jimmy Dopson. When the building came down, the first one, I left patients and I ran to a back in my ambulance. And I put seven people in and then I had to shut the doors on other people. There was no room.

35:30But Marvin wasn't there. I thought we were getting buried alive. So I hooked up two oxygen tanks and I made like scuba, a buddy breathe. So he passed that around to each other as the cement kept going on on us. So I said to myself, Jimmy, bad way to end the career. And then I'm telling the other people on the next breath, don't worry, they're going to find us. Basically, I didn't know if the ambulance was going to be running. I left it running and I started driving down the street. And I get down to the hospital, New York Presbyterian South. They were all taking the people into that emergency room and they were asking me what happened, and I tell them the towers down. And they say to me, are you okay? Sit down. They couldn't believe that I was telling them the truth that the tower was down. So I sit near a while and then okay, I saw my ambulance and I was still running. I said, let me do what I can do. So I turned around and I went back to the towers again.

36:33And so you, Jimmy, are you keep going? You're just bringing more people out. You're doing all that because that's what your modest event. Were you even thinking about terrorism? Was any of that going through your head? No, not at the time. What I was doing is I couldn't take the care of them medically, but I could bring them to a safe place. So that's what I was doing. The second time I went back, there was two people that were injured badly. I got them in the ambulance and all I hear is the second buildings that come down. So now I just drive as fast as I can along these side streets. And then it's very windy down there and I get back to the hospital. And the first thing they asked me what's going on? I said, both towers are down now. They were like, look at that me and they say to me, well, how many, how many, you know, survivors we're going to get? How many injuries? I said, you can't fall. Am I allowed to sky and expect to live? You're getting none.

37:34From your point of view, you're out of the building and you have no idea that the South of Torres collapsed as well, presumably. You're just getting help. I didn't even know the second tower had collapsed. It must have been like an earthquake, but I was on the stairs at the time and had no idea. When the darkness went to brown and then beige and then it was clear again, I was having trouble focusing my eyes. I had to dig my mouth out so I could breathe because I was totally covered in the cloud. So I dug myself out so I could breathe a little bit. And then I remembered there was a hospital downtown and I somehow made my way to it, remembering it was kind of near the Brooklyn Bridge. And when I actually got into the hospital, they took me downstairs to a cafeteria and they laid me out and a nurse came over with a case of saline solution and poured it over my head to see what was going on. So I didn't know what happened still.

38:35All I know is this is just something bizarre and I had no idea what happened. And I'm laying there and they're prepping me for surgery. And I hear on the nurses station that it was a terrorist attack. And I don't know why, but I made a point of saying I need to get out of the city. Obviously I wasn't in my best of mind at the moment. And I put on my pants, my shoes grabbed the plastic bag with my shirt in it. I'm still wearing a hospital gown and I walked out of the hospital and then made it onto the Brooklyn Bridge and walked across into Brooklyn to get out of the city. There are some people who are really badly hurt. I saw a construction worker with a piece of rebar in them. We were all victims and nobody was asking, are you okay or are you okay? We're kind of all on our own. And that was kind of an undercurrent of my entire experience that myself and Lucy were on our own

39:35till we figured out what we're going to do post the actual collapse. And Joseph, you were directing this as much as you could and obviously all your firefighters were, is it where autonomously doing the best they could, but you were actually going through the rubble with your hands as well. Yeah, we were searching. And the less person we were able to pull out alive was 26 hours after the collapse. We continued rescue operations for 18 days. And the reason we chose 18 is because we were told that the longest survivor from an earthquake was 14 and we had to some extra days on. But it must be so distressing for you because you were as it were, the leader of all this, but same time you were facing increasing knowledge of personal tragedy. I mean, when did you know that your brother had died? I was hopeful and I tried to get him on the radio that day. Atalian 133, atalian 133. And there was no answer.

40:37But there was a lot of radio traffic. So I figured, well, he's a smart guy. He's in some spot. We'll get to him. But by the next day, the night of the next day, I could remember walking up West Street to the firehouse. You could see the plume was smoke in the darkness. And I knew that my brother wasn't alive. And I could remember tears coming down my face as I walked to the firehouse. And then I drove home and had to tell my family. Marvin, you're a partner. You thought you'd lost him. So when did you realize that you hadn't lost him? Well, what happened was I kept going back and forth and I kept moving people back and forth, a couple of policemen, a couple of people couldn't breathe. They were coming out of like all these different stores. So I said, let me go a couple of blocks south

41:40and then go up that way just to see what's going on there. And all of a sudden I see to my right there's someone standing holding a telephone and just by himself looking. And there's no one else around. Everything's on fire. It looks like hell behind them. And it's Marvin. I get out of the ambulance and he says, Jimmy, I said, Marvin, we run to each other and we hug each other. And then we say, we made it. And then I said, well, we as the student, he says, I don't know. Thank God he was alive too. He left right in the beginning because he had young children and I can understand that most people tried to leave because they knew it was an unsafe place. The people that went back like the fireman and all did the heroes. You, Judy, had children. Yes.

42:41And young children. Yes. But you just went beyond your shift and you just kept working. Yes. It was my job. I had earlier on in the day when I saw the first plane crash. I called my family and had my brothers go get my children from school. And I knew they were safe. That's all that mattered. And I kept working for you. Jill, when did you get confirmation that not that you, as aware, needed the confirmation because you knew yourself but when was the confirmation that he had passed away? Never. There was nothing was ever found, nothing. What was the impact on you being able to speak to him during the day? Did that has that left you with some comfort? Oh, 100%. I mean, I feel lucky, ironically, but the fact that I was able to have some sense of a goodbye,

43:44some sense of I love you. And, you know, he did what he could. You know, I know a lot of people who didn't speak to their loved ones. And so I was, I was really happy. I was at least able to do that on that day. And who was it? One of the things that also started to happen was that people started to make posters and they started to make flyers. And they came to say, Vincent's hospital and they put posters outside the hospital first very rudimentary homemade saying, have you seen this person? Please call this person's family and it would be a phone number and a picture. And first there were a few and then there were a 10 and there were dozens and then there were hundreds and hundreds of those. And then they became more well-made and more permanent and they were laminated. And that was also the progression of when are we going to know, when are we going to have some sense of what happened to these people? And then it took time for that to become a reality that sometimes there was nothing

44:45and there was no information and there was no closure, finality, anything. And that was very, very hard. If anybody sees him or knows anything, his name is Andrew Stern. His wife and his mother and the rest of us are all waiting to hear. Andrew Stern from Canophanthor. My brother was on that floor. I haven't heard a lot so that's missing. Okay. He's a Robert Sleewex wife Susan. They're from Rhode Island. This is my brother, he's 42. He was on the hundred and third of fourth floor. Jean Trost was looking for her brother Gregory. He was 26. It's like searching for a needle and a haystack at this point. It really is and I'm just praying that that everything is going to be fine. He's a very strong kid and he's very loving and person and and they've been so we're just over here. We'll find him.

45:46Jesus Christ. You know, we can handle just about everything. This is beyond. In the wake of the attacks, the city came together. Reinforcements poured in to help with the search and rescue effort, including officer Wayne Diana of the South Plainfield, New Jersey Police Department. We wound up in ground zero at about some time. I guess around midnight search and for survivors every possible city aid so you can think of is down there. Private contractors in there with heavy equipment moving huge pieces of building and steel and police cars and fire trucks that are wrecked down there. They're in a process of moving those out now with work lifts. It's going to be it's going to be a long operation. That assessment and sifting must have gone on for a very long time. It did. It went on for nine months. And at one point, the mayor said we're going to close the site. And we told him, Mr. Mayor, you can't. And he was, well, I'm your boss. You're going to listen to what I say.

46:47But then the family members got together. And the family said, Mr. Mayor, you're going to reverse your decision and look for our loved ones. And we continued operations for months later. And I know many people haven't been identified. And some particles are kept in the 9-11 museum. So when the technology is there, maybe in the future, they could be identified. But I think it's really important for family members. You Jimmy had gone through so much that day, but you went straight back out the next day. Yeah. When I finally got back to the hospital, they had a decon unit. It's like a bath at a shower outside and they washed us down. And they said, what do you want to do? I said, go home. So I went home and the next day I came to work.

47:50It really shouldn't have happened. It was too soon. I should have counseling all that. But the way it was, it knows paying attention to it. So went back to work, went in the same ambulance that was basically has all of rubble in it and everything else and worked in that. And I worked for another two and a two and a half years, maybe after. And then I couldn't work them one mentally. I couldn't work no more. I became very sick. I tried to commit suicide twice. There are so many phobias that came out. I was like open up Pandora's box. I worked 32 years. And to work so long helping people and to see what happened that day. It's almost like, why did I say well, other people? And I couldn't save these people. And it's the first time I left people behind.

48:53And I just I was broken. Judges, I continue to work that day. We were both taken to the hospital, myself and my partner. No one at our station house thought we had survived until we showed up at our station house. And we were told to go home. That night we, myself and my partner spoke. And we waited a day and the following day we went back to work. We couldn't stay home while or everyone else was searching. So we wanted to also go back. You said to me before that your behavior has changed. You can't go to big spaces. You cannot be in crowds. No, it gives me anxiety. I'm very vigilant. We never really imagine when we walk around the streets of New York,

49:57how many people are carrying both physical and mental trauma from 9-11? So 9-11, we lost almost 3,000 people. But more people have died post 9-11. The fight apartment we lost 343 that day. But in October of 2023, we lost more people from post 9-11 diseases. And I think we have to remember that the trauma that we experienced 25 years ago, families are experiencing another type of trauma. Richard Duncan. It's a very complex feeling. You know, when I first survived, my response is, why did I survive? Why me? And over time, it just gave me a feeling to restart my life back then in a way that was better for me. And right now, I'm, you know, remarried to an amazing person who understands me.

51:00And my life has actually turned out to be in its own strange way. A lot better. I almost needed the impetus to make that massive a change in my life. What about for you, Michael? Once the flotilla had done its job, how were things for you? We transitioned to bringing supplies into the city. So we had all this capacity, all these boats. And over in New Jersey, there were doctors, nurses, police officer, of steel workers looking to come into the city to help. And people were just donating everything from pizza to work boots, their pallets of Levi's things were just showing up. Remember, they eventually shifted to the Jaffat Center because so many supplies that were coming in to the area. So we, I got off the boat on the 11th, about 11.30 at night. I remember walking down the street and then seeing the fire apparatus just destroyed. And then the pile and lights and looking up and there was all these little fires and like hotels and a couple of other buildings. So we're just kind of burning.

52:01I think as debris had gone through and it was just dark and it was just seared into my memory. I worked until Friday morning and it wasn't until I think Thursday that I saw reports and learn what happened. And I can remember just breaking down in tears. I'd been so busy. I didn't really think about it. Compartmentalize, do the job. So I went Tuesday to Friday without sleep and I got home and I think I slept for like a day and a half almost. I mean, just exhausted. Yeah. Jimmy, you've talked a little bit about your own ongoing illness. Tell me about Marvin and did he suffer illness? Me and Marvin, but they worked together every Tuesday, 16 hours. Five weeks after the collapse of the tower was I was working with him and he was in a bank getting money for uniforms to go to wakes and they told him he was sick.

53:05That some person came up knocked on the side and said, you're potty sick. He took a stroke. He had a stroke. So I felt I was alone again, but I took him. Do what I had to do for him, put him in the ambulance. I started an IV and then I brought him into the hospital. Marvin was a tough guy. He came back to work like three months later. And then he tried to do programs for people and try to get them benefits. And he was really go down to Washington DC all the time. And he about four years after that, he tells me, Jimmy, I'm just so tired. I can't. And he had asthma constantly. So I said, Marvin, you don't have to do all this stuff. Take it, stay home. But the next day he had such a bad asthma attack. He went to respiratory failure and then into cardiac failure. They brought him back. And after that, he, the only thing he couldn't do after everything was he couldn't swallow anything.

54:06So for the last 10 years of his life, he had a feeding tube. And I used to visit him all the time. And then after the 20th anniversary, eight months later, he passed away from it. And he's probably one of the best friends I've had. Like brother. It's 25 years this year. And I'm sure there will be events and moments to remember what has happened. But I imagine no one around this table has anything other than a clear memory of what happened. I mean, your life, Joe, changed in a heartbeat that day. And what has happened since? You know, you keep living your life and just remember and cherish what life was before and who I had in my life before. And living knowing that he would want me to keep living my life. And you have and you're remarried. Yes, I've been lucky twice and thankful twice that I have a partner that's amazing.

55:11You two children though who are now grown up. Do they talk about it? I wonder where it figures in their lives. Yes, my daughter who was two and a half, she has some memories, mostly from videos and pictures. And the one I was pregnant with, it took her a long time to understand the concept of, what do you mean my father died before I was born? How does that happen? So it's taken her a long time. But once, you know, over time she started to process and understand. And now she, you know, obviously fully understands what occurred and what she represents. I mean, meeting and talking to people in the city, they're very much a feeling that this is New York story to tell. Is that the case? And I wonder what it's going to be like in a way because it's almost a generation now. It is almost a generation and I still think back to the day of and the days immediately after and I think about one friend in particular who had twin sisters.

56:14And one of the sisters died in the towers and I think about. Lives that were literally cleaved in half and so many wonderful stories of people who have gone forward and made new lives and other lives. But we also have ghosts and we are living with those ghosts all the time and I'm ever mindful of that. Rich, you talked about the woman you helped called Lucy. What happened to her? After it was over, we were parted when the building started to fall. I went off to the closer to the church, ran over the hood and ran away and she stayed closer behind. Actually in the store from when I understand it took me a while because I didn't know who she was. It took me a while to find her by doing info at any number of companies until they said, you know, yes, I just would email. I just need to know that she make it out. That's all I needed to know. I don't want anything just and one of them replied back. Yes, she made it out. She's very thankful. And now every Christmas and New Year's and 9 11, we exchange an email, which is really short. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm great. How are you? That's it.

57:21And so we keep that level of contact to this day and it's very fulfilling. And Joseph, we've been talking about the people who died. I suppose it's also very important to remember how all you first responders managed to save people in the vicinity of the Twin Towers. Is there any kind of idea of numbers? Does anyone really know how many you saved? It's somewhere above 17,000 between 17,000 and 20,000 people were saved that day. But as we reflect back, we the victims of terrorism and the survivors do not ignore the pain. Instead, we give it purpose to bring about change because without purpose, there is no hope. There weren't superheroes that day that could leap buildings in a single bound. There were ordinary heroes helping each other out doing ordinary acts of kindness.

58:27And I believe in that so much that when the new One World Trade Center opened, the poor authority asked me to write something on the steel at the very top. And what I wrote on the steel is always remember the heroes who do ordinary things at an extraordinary time. So others may live. And I think that message, if it gets out to the current and future generation, this hope for the future. Am you still in that building with the window when you look out at New York now? Is it the same New York? It will never be the same New York, but it is a vibrant New York and it is a New York where people still from all over the world from every different background and history come to make themselves new lives and to build new lives. So it is an incredibly rich and vibrant place that also has a lot of possibility and a lot of connectedness.

59:34And yes, every day acts of kindness all the time and some other stuff, but good things. Thank you so much, everybody. To Joseph Fyfer, Jimmy Dobson, Joe Pila, Judith Castro, Michael D, Rich Eichen and AM Homes. Thank you all very much indeed. Thank you very much. Thank you guys so much. Heroes all of you. Do you know what happens when you link your GrubHub to your Amazon Prime? You get zero dollar delivery fees on all eligible orders. Summing the food. Terms and additional fees apply visit amazon.com slash GrubHub for details.