“The Not So Quiet Man”

0:00Greetings, culminators, and welcome to season 5 of culmination, where my insightful guests and I tackle free speech challenges, dismantle law fair, and confront overreach from big tech and regulators. In each episode, I endeavor to be a source for clear analysis on politics, culture, and the fight for individual rights. Stay tuned for the latest episode. Let's get culminating. How about culminators? Thank you for joining us here in the hot summer of New Jersey. And in this case, Kentucky. Kentucky? Well, yes, because Nick Sarci. Sarci, Nick Sarci is going to be is joining us. And this is a guy, this is a career that is so impressive, so much acting, so much TV,

1:10directing, saying what he believes, producer, and we're going to talk about how it is that Nick managed to have a career in Hollywood while not being in step with the hive mind. But first, I want to ask him what he played in guys and dolls. Gosh, that was so long ago. Rusty. It was like one of the guys at the beginning that sang the opening number. Okay. That's that was like 25 years ago. Oh gosh. So I guess I should, but certainly in Jesus Christ, super stride, remember that one. Yes. I played Jesus in that. You did play Jesus in that one. I did. So that explains yourself confidence, I guess. Well, I was a, I had a rock band in college and I was a singer.

2:11Oh, you were also a rock band in college. We had a band. This is, this is really rings Nick Fear was the name of our band in college. Nick Fear. Nick terrifying name in rock and roll. And certainly, yeah, that's funny. We, we, we, hard band and it was a cover band. I sure yours was a, was a cover band also. We, we could never think of names. You could never, so we for each show, we had a different name. One of them was flammable dog. Yeah. But this is, and this is, you know, when you're a few years old than I am, but you know, this is during the punk era. So that was like, oh yeah. Yeah. Nick Fear sounds like a, like a good comic book character. Yeah. It was, it basically was a takeoff on, you know, doc savage or whatever. So when did you know that you were, that you were show people?

3:14Well, when I was a kid, when I was a kid, I grew up in a little university town, Call of Wee, North Carolina, Western Carolina University was there. And when I was in about the fifth grade, they came down and said, we've got a little boy part. And we're looking for a kid that wants to be an actor. And the fifth grade teacher said that kid right there, it's been doing Tom Jones impressions for show and tale. I think he wants to be an actor. So that was it. I did that play. And after that, it was like, okay, that's what I want to do. It really isn't intoxicating, isn't it? The theater. But you seem to have, you know, was there a struggling young actor part of it or you just consistently able to move up? No. I mean, I moved to New York after college in 1982 and I'd never got on Broadway. I barely made a living. I'd made my living hanging wallpaper and doing legal proofreading.

4:18I was legal proofreader and you know, were you ever a waiter? Tell me you were, tell you were, I was a terrible waiter. I was only a waiter once or twice, you know, but wasn't good. But yeah, I mean, I never got a film while I was in New York. We moved back to North Carolina in 1989 because my wife was pregnant and that's when things started to happen. I got a few little parts and big movies and then I got a pretty big part and fried green tomatoes and that was it. So, and it took me years. It took years. So you're one of those overnight sensations that took five to ten years. Yeah. Yeah. You're having a good time. Yeah. Little thing to you talk, that's funny. When I wash clips of you in scenes from the incredible justified, you always sound to me like a Yankee because compared to everyone else in the cast, it's like Debbie Dogg, you know what I mean? Yeah.

5:19But talking to you now, I hear the Southern, the Southern man coming through. Well, since we moved back to Kentucky, my Southern accent has gotten worse, you know, just because, yeah, you know, you need to make people around here understand you. So if you talk too fast, they won't get it. Well, I know that. I know that very well. I once went down to Memphis for legal work when I was a fairly young associate in the big New York, New Jersey firm and the in-house lawyer for W.R. Grayson company said, you know, Ron, you might be a little bit too much for these folks down here. I don't think you just met the fast-talking either. No. Well, around here, you know, the people in Kentucky around here think I sound like a Yankee too. One of the scenes in that program where you are kind of featured and you don't have

6:24railings chewing up the wallpaper, right, is the one of the diner. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good scene. And you really come across like the kind of real professional, like not, you know, because the thing about, you know, the start is that he's the fastest shot in the West, right? So, you know, he's a Superman. He's got it all figured out. I mean, I love how he's a fantastic show. But I really thought you came across exactly like a, what is it, a chief deputy? Yeah. Chief deputy in the Marshall Service. Not that I have all that much to do with those guys. I try to avoid them, actually. Well, a lot of people say that the, you know, my, the sense of humor of the character is what kind of made, made him, you know, seem so realistic because they say that, that sort

7:27of dark sense of humor, that sort of gallows humor that, that, that, most law enforcement of the British, so it's kind of half to half in order to just survive is like, was really well written into the script and, you know, well played by me. I must say. Well, that, I would expect that. Yes. And I observed it myself. You know, this is completely, now, now I'm going to do the opposite of what I said I was going to do. I just hardly ever get to talk to people who have really succeeded in show business. And as an entity before we started recording, I was, you know, a lot of lawyers, especially litigators are frustrated former actors, you know, collegiate and high school level. There's a new genre of YouTube videos where it's called, you're an ex at every, at every level of ex and they show people progressing through some career or some criminal career and one of them is it being an actor.

8:27Right. And they talk about how, and they really nailed that, that, that intoxication that some of us get when we're, when we've got an audience in the palm of our hands. Right. And I actually realize, I mean, the side of the fact that my nervous Jewish parents were never going to let me be a professional actor. But I was very successful in college. So I would play the house with a thousand people, McCartney Theater in Princeton. And you could lift an eyebrow and send people into paroxysisms of laughter. And I realized, oh, I think you never get tired of this. Yeah. Well, it definitely doing things on stage is much different than doing film. You kind of don't get that sort of charge, you know, that same sort of electricity that you get doing live theater. It's, it's, it's, it's more technical.

9:30It's more sort of, you know, did I say that right, you know, the lighting was wrong, whatever, it's, it's, it's not the same thing as, you know, because that's the great thing about stage. And you're on stage, you have to tell the audience what's important. You have to show them where to look. You have to direct their attention and film the camera does it. So it's, it's not as much of an, an all-encompassing sort of activity when you're doing film. And then you, but you run the last figure, this is something I can do. I'm as good as those guys behind the camera and you started doing yourself about 30 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I made films in college, you know, I was always making little super eight films and trying to cut them together. And, you know, I always had a roommate that was a filmmaker. So yeah, it was kind of part of my growing up was not only acting, but also putting films together and seeing how it all worked. That's interesting. I, that is something I don't think anyone did where I went to school.

10:35I'm, I'm probably a good thing too. I was busy with, I was busy with the radio besides the stage. So the visual aspect of it, I mean, what has happened with the easy, you know, the accessibility of all kinds of, what's the fact that we can do a program like this? Yeah. And production, you know, and I'm sitting here in my law office in Newark, New Jersey. And it's a bone, it's a bona fide talking head show. It's not all that much worse than, you know, firing line, you know, in 1970, except we're both smarter than when you left Buckley. Right. Right. Right. Well, yeah, it wasn't that common back then. I mean, I went to North Carolina School of the Arts, my freshman year right out of high school and my, because you had already gotten the bugs. So that's where you knew you were going to, yeah, okay. And my roommate at that time made super eight films. No one else I knew did that. I mean, it wasn't like I got explain to the kids what super eight is. Like, yeah, super eight is actual film.

11:37And it's like, you know, everything used to be on 16 millimeter. And then they blew it up to 35. But the home video market used to be super eight. And it was a very thin strip that you ran through a projector and, you know, there were sprocket holes and, you know, crazy things. And it's not like your iPhone. But, and I would, I would back then you had to literally, you know, cut the film and glue it back together and paste it, you know, to make a film, you literally had to cut it. So it was a good learning experience. Yeah, well, I used, I was also the sales manager for my radio stations. So I would, and I didn't trust anyone else through their production, because who could, no one else could be as brilliant as Ron Coleman, right? Right. So I used to do those manual splices also, you know, just, you know, I mean, I was, I'm just, if all, you know, kids today, they take everything to grant, but you then, you then, well, once you got into the driver's seat, swerved into doing the, the, the gaznell,

12:41a movie, which I guess that's when you started, also toying with the political correctness. Yeah. Well, I think what happened, you know, gaznell came kind of right after justified ended. And, you know, this, this opportunity came to direct a film. I directed one other feature film before back in 1996. So I was like, yeah, this will be fun. And, you know, and I read the script and we worked on it a little bit. And I thought, well, this is, this is not really a partisan film. This is just a crime drama. This is what this guy actually did. And I was kind of naive in that way, you know, I think I sort of thought, oh, they're not going to think I'm being political here. But of course, the subject matter was such that it wouldn't matter what the film was. They, they just had to slam it because the abortion doctor was the bad guy. So they had to, they had to ignore it. Had, were you always, man, we know you used to be today, rather politically conservative.

13:46And it was someone growing up in North Carolina might be. Yeah, I think, I think, yes, before I got anything going, Rush Limbaugh ruined me. And I was listening. I used to drive to auditions when I was in North Carolina. And I'd have three, four hour drives to Atlanta or to Wilmington or wherever I had to go to audition. And I found the sky on the radio. And I was like, who is this? You know, and so I started listening to Rush. So by the time I got my career going, I was already a Rush fan. So you were a did-oh-head in the fact, isn't it true? Yes. You were a did-oh-head. Yeah. Well, that scene that you just mentioned and justified where I'm in the diner. Yeah. I did the beginning of that scene is my character sitting in the car listening to Rush Limbaugh. It's on the radio. Oh, so of a God. So was there any point before that where you picked up the vibe about staying in line

14:51in Hollywood on politics? Because that's around when things start getting really crazy. Yeah. Well, I would say that, no, I never really hid it. But I would say in the, you know, in the 80s and the early 90s, you know, when Clinton was president. It wasn't as polarized as it is now. And that really happened with Obama. But you know, since my career really got going to North Carolina, there were actors in North Carolina that were Republicans, that were Democrats. We had discussions. It wasn't any big deal. So by the time I moved to California and I figured out I should keep my mouth shut, I had already opened it. So there was really nothing I could do about it. So I just had to go with it. But do you think you were punished? Do you think you suffered any consequences for it? Oh, yeah. Very specific projects.

15:52Do you think that you might have nailed that? Well, you don't have to name any name. Yeah. I mean, there have been a couple of times where it's like, you know, there's one in particular where I was kind of cast on Friday afternoon and I was supposed to report to work on Monday. And I think they figured out who I was. And the director selected me, but the producer said, no. And so I just, I go, what happened? They go, well, they just went a different way. And it's like there was no way for it, you know, that is such a great phrase, isn't it? Yeah. But I mean, I'm sure that there have been times when people just go, not that guy. No, you know, because I have some friends in the business who've told me when that happened, you know, writers and things like that. So yeah, I'm sure it happens. But you managed. You're managing it. You've kept, you've kept pretty busy. I have, I have been very fortunate. And, you know, it's, I still get hired by friends of mine.

16:54And I still, every now and then, I just did a movie in March for Paramount that come in now to early next year called the Rescue. I don't work as much as I used to, but then again, I'm old now. You're old. There's no more. You're old, you're old. Lawyers have to die at their desks, but you're an actor, you know? Well, I, I always thought that, I mean, when I talked about the intoxication, I, I always imagined that the real atlas guys, you know, you're, you're obviously a minus, right? Or if that. But the super stars, I think that it must be painful to, you know, to, to be at that level of adulation. And this is more relevant to film the stage, of course. Yeah. To be this media figure and, to be a star.

17:57And then the world passes you by. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, you can see why so many people go the, the drastic, plastic surgery route and, you know, they're trying to maintain that persona, that image that was successful for them. And when you get to be 65 and you're dying your hair and, you know, it's just not, unless you're really, really, really big star, it's not going to work. So. The amazing thing I asked an AI to give me my hair back just to see what it would look like. Yeah. Looked exactly like George Clooney. They're, they're about for the follicles, right? That's right. Well, you have to do your co star in justified Tim O'Lephant. He's quite a character, isn't he? Yeah. He's a great, he's another guy seems to say whatever the hell he wants to. Yeah. I haven't, I haven't kept up with that.

18:58I mean, I don't know what he's been saying lately. No, I just mean like clips that I even just show busy type stuff. Not necessarily politically, but yeah. He's very, very good. I mean, he has a great sense of humor and, you know, we had a great time. He has a really dry sense of humor. Yes. You know, he's, he's done well and he deserves it. He's absolutely captivating. Yeah. He's on screen. He is, at least in that, you know, in that role. How much of your time did you spend, I mean, did you ever actually live in Hollywood in California? Yeah. We lived in Burbank for 30 years, a little over 30 years. How was your career? Your kids came out okay? Yeah, we made, we moved there in 92 and then we moved back to North Carolina in 95, but

20:03we kept a place in Burbank and by 2004, we moved Lock Sockenberg to Burbank and we were there from 2004 until COVID hit and everybody went insane and we said we got to get the hell out of here. Well, that was actually pretty good time for getting the hell out of California. Yeah, it was. It was. I had been saying this place is going down. Lastly, we've got to get out of here. I've been saying that for five years and then when COVID hit and our neighbors turned into these Stalinists, you know, that wanted to, you know, kept telling you to pull your mask up over your nose and, you know, Leslie finally turns me and said, you're right, we got to go. Let's go. You're unusual because you've, you've got, you've, you've affirmatively gotten yourself mixed up into the world you, where you and I first encounter each other, which is proletarian media, social media. Yeah, yeah.

21:03And, you know, and you're having, you're enjoying your retirement in part by mixing it up with people and having, having all kinds of opinions. Yeah. That's not too many. I mean, let's put Randy Quaid aside, you know, he's always his own category. Right. Right. Not, you know, it's kind of unusual in your, in your field for people to actually, and I guess part of that is because so a few of them actually have truly thought out positions on things. Yeah. I mean, so many people that are, you know, boisterous on social media, they're usually just saying the same old thing, you know, they're usually just towing the party line or they're, they're giving you the establishment view or the Democrat party view or whatever. And, you know, there's no, that doesn't take any courage. That doesn't take any, that doesn't really even take any thought, you know, they're just sort of running with the pack. And so I don't know, I just have too much fun on there.

22:03It's my agent was even telling me one time, you know, you might want to rethink that. No one let me, yeah, it's, it's too much fun. I don't care. I don't want to work that much anyway. You're old. That's right. I became an actor because I didn't want to work. So that is exactly why it was thinking of Tim. I say, Tim, of course, I recall each other by my first name. Yeah. What Tim all said because he, he, I saw a clip of him probably shortly after justified finished, I think, talking about how, actually said someone asked him, you know, some kind of, you know, ask his question about how hard everybody works and how hard, how hard a, and he said, that thing isn't working at all. Yeah. No, that's not, I mean, it's fun. And, and it's, you know, there's something good days and bad days like anything else. But, you know, the, the hardest part of acting is getting the job.

23:05Once you get the job, it's fun. I mean, there are, do seem to be some actors who, who really, who really do work. At the time, Tom, Tom Cruise, yeah, to really put a lot of, a lot of work. But, you know, if you're playing parts of your sitting in the diner and Patrick and coffee is supposed to jump and go out there and play. Yes. I don't, I don't look for parts where I'm driving a motorcycle off the cliff. I don't want that. In fact, now I just look through and I go, I'm sitting on a horse. Forget it. No, I'm not doing that. If I'm not behind a desk of driving a car, I don't really want to. You sound a lot, I was described myself as an avid endorsement. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you, what do you think about? What's going on in Hollywood? I mean, there's a lot of tumult now.

24:08And to a large extent, the political and the art, I mean, as we like, like a true Marxist society, move towards the politicization of absolutely every component of our freaking lives. Yeah. It seems that, I mean, the whole hullabaloo over the Odyssey. Yeah. You, you, you can't tell when people are being are giving a political take on it or an artistic or a creative or a classics take on it. What's the Nick take? Well, you know, if I haven't seen the Odyssey, but you know, all right, this is social media. Yeah. Just like saying you have to read an article before condemning it. Well, yeah, the thing about the Odyssey, it was so much tumult about the casting and, you know, casting Elliott Page as a soldier who, by the way, Elliott Page once played my daughter

25:10in a movie called an American crime. He, and he was very convincing as my daughter. So I think those days he was entirely. I think he had a different name back then. I had a different name. And a different tailor. Yeah. But you know, what, what I think what happened with the Odyssey and this is what was my take on it was once the Academy made those stupid D E I was where you have to have your film populated with this many black people and this many gay people and all this, all this stuff, this many women and all that. Then if you want to qualify for an Oscar and if you're going to spend $257 million making a movie, you got to play by the rules. And it's like that's Hollywood is deliberately destroying itself over these stupid rules. Well, Hollywood suffers from something I call I've got a little, a little,

26:10some stack right, I'm writing a series of essays called the fallacy of abundance. And it's this idea that you've got a franchise of one condor and another. Or you've got a bottomless well of some resource. And you can, you know, you can do it in social policy. We can do it in military affairs. We don't, we can, we can do D E I or we can not punish criminals, whatever it is. Because we have enough of X, we have enough security. And and Hollywood believes it has enough of being Hollywood. And we saw with, I say this on the, the week during Spider-Man is looking like a, a billion dollar opening. Okay, fine. But so much money has been lost on these superhero franchises on the assumption that all you have to do is just press the button and you know, it's, it's going to come out. And Hollywood thinks, well, we can make these rules because we're always going to be

27:12the only people who can do this. Well, you know, North Carolina itself has a, a, a film end, you know, a, a film industry. I mean, there, people are making movies all over the world. Yeah. I mean, and that's where I started, you know, Hollywood had come to North Carolina. They're in the late 80s because of the taxes and everything. There was a lot of things shooting in North Carolina. That's how I've got started. And yeah, they're in Atlanta now. They're in Toronto. Every time I work, it's never in California. I've, I've worked, I've done three projects in the last nine months, one in Toronto, one in Birmingham, Alabama, and one in Atlanta. And then another one in Nashville. There's a fourth. My gosh. Yeah. It's all south of the Mason Dixon line too. Yeah. So it's, they've, they've lost the business. They, they've driven the industry out. It made it so expensive to shoot there. And even, you know, I've been trying to put together an independent film for the last couple of years. And it's like the first conversation is, you know, always there's never a possibility

28:15of shooting this in California. It's not even talked about, you know, because they just too much money. So it's, so basically the brand name studios, they're, they will continue sign clinging through the brand name stuff. Yeah. And doing what they do. And meanwhile, have a creativity. I mean, do you think people are doing interesting, cool stuff? Based on, you know, well, I don't know if you've seen this. There's a movie that's out now or just came out a few weeks ago called obsession. That is a thriller that was made for less than a million dollars. I heard about it. Didn't see it. I don't actually usually go to the movies. But I don't either. But I went out to see that one because I was happened to be in Burbank and it was shot in Burbank. And I thought I'm going to go see what all the fuss is. It was great. It's a really great thriller. It's getting distribution, right? I mean, that's, that's what makes it possible for an independent film to succeed. Yeah.

29:15And it's, you know, the studios now in that regard, they, they're kind of like, you know, when Grunge hit the film, I mean, the music industry, they just sit back and like let people spend their time making their little movies. And if one of them is good, they go, OK, we'll take that one. You know, then they make a fortune off of it. My, my son-in-law made a movie called Phelma, which came out last year, made it to theaters. Well, you know, one of the prizes Sundance. I mean, he basically hit a home run with this $3 million movie, got distributed by Universal. And, you know, that, that is out of thousands of films that are made every year. I mean, that is like finding a needle in the haystack. Do you ever, have you ever written a script? Yeah. The one that I'm trying to put on right now is a script that I wrote with a friend of mine.

30:17Is that a good? Yeah, I think it's great. We wrote a script about gospel quartet music in the, in the 60s, Southern gospel quartets, which is, I don't know if it's a genre you're familiar with. Well, I would certainly recognize it if I, if I heard it. It's basically Christian Barber Shop, you know, with a piano player. And what, and how did the race lines go there? Well, they were basically, it was fairly sick. There was a black, there are black gospel groups and white gospel groups. And so the big, big struggle for my movie is that this is about the white gospel groups. So we're not going to make it to the Oscars. Well, you can bring on some black critics. Well, we do have, there are the black people in it, but, you know, maybe not enough. And what, what was it that made you so interested in that topic, which I actually can see why would be an interesting topic?

31:19I, um, well, I grew up with that. My, my first cousin was a singer and a quartet. I went to these gospel sings when I was a kid. I was sort of, you know, three of my uncles were Baptist ministers. So I was very steeped in it. And then I did a play in Laguna Beach and the, I played a, did a play called Billion Ray, which is about Billy Wilder and Raymond Chandler riding double and demnity together. Great play, really, really fun play. But the guy who was playing Billy Wilder, his father was a gospel singer and a gospel pianist. And so we just sitting in the back room, you know, we were on stage for eight weeks. So we talked a lot and he told me the story of what happened to his dad. And I said, that, that sounds like a movie. So we sat down and wrote it. It took us about three months. A lot of people don't appreciate and I include myself. I hardly ever include myself in a lot of people, but until you know something, you don't know it, right?

32:22Yeah. Are all these subcultures around all these different artistic forms? I once just found myself, I was scrolling through YouTube as one does. Yeah. And I ended up watching a long documentary about the, about the, the banjo world. Mm hmm. And they've got these traditions and, and you know, and the people who are the, you know, the, the colossus's colossi, you know, of banjo and, and you find this in every area. And it's, it's absolutely fascinating. And you know, we tend to focus so much on the really big money. Let me ask you something. I was about to say artists. Do you consider what you do to be our, our actors artists? Yes. Not all actors, but yeah, I do. Our good, is good acting and art.

33:22Yeah. I mean, I, I, I would say I'm probably more of a craftsman than an artist. I'm a character actor. You know, I sort of, you know, I'm not the guy you're going to hire to like impersonate Howard Co-Sale or something, you know. I think there are guys who are really, you know, guys and women who are really able to transform themselves into almost anything. And that, that, that takes a lot. That, that's an art. It really, and that, and that really is work. In fact, that, you know, going back to our earlier. Well, I mean, I guess it's work unless, you know, if you're talented at something, it probably doesn't, you know, it's like, like singing for a good singer is not hard. Well, they're singing and they're singing. I mean, I, you know, I, I was in choir. Yeah. And I remember seeing what was necessary and experiencing what was necessary to be in voice, which I'm certainly not anymore, how much work it required to, to vocalize

34:26and be, you know, you know, you're anything in all the things. I think what do you, I mean, they have an opinion on method acting. I understand the one acting class I took in college was, was a method acting class. And I think I got some really good tips from that. But I understand there are some people in the business who think it's BS. Yeah. I'm never really, I don't think I've really worked with a method actor. I mean, I don't, I don't think I've run across it. Someone was in character on the set, you know, that kind of, you know, I've, I've heard of it. And I guess in some ways, you know, some of them are, but like I've never really had a bad experience where it was like as a method acting nonsense. You know, I just don't, I can't keep a straight face doing that. You know, it's like that when you're in college, you're trying out all the different techniques and that, you know, it's like it just got too silly at a certain point.

35:26It's like, come on, who are we kidding? We're just, we're having coffee. You don't have to stay in character. Right. But again, I think you're right, though, when you say if you're good at it, some people are, are naturals. Yeah. And they know how to, how to be natural in a place that is not a diner, but is really a big, gigantic black room with all kinds of lights and cameras and microphones and yet look like a person having a cup of coffee. Yeah. Behaving realistically in imaginary circumstances. That's basically it. Of course, I guess in what they call a police procedural, which it really shouldn't, I mean, marshals aren't really that kind of cop. And you know, they're not really investigators as a general. Right. But we're, we go get fugitives and, you know, and that we're not solving crimes. We're, you know, we're, we're going after guys that are already convicted or, you know,

36:28this is by the way, and it's so completely unlike any culmination part. I mean, I'm just, I'm just being the, I'm just being a theater kid talking, you know, a grown up theater kid. The joke was always, what's my motivation? You know, the actors was here. It's bad guys and good guys, right? It's what I was. Now, now, for Tim, he had some, some of these complex, the complex geometry of, you know, his relationship with, you know, the women and boy and boy and, and the whole, I actually was, I'm a, I've never actually watched a full, I don't watch, like I said, I don't watch TV either, but I watch these clips and there's, and people, people do the job of finding me the good clips. Good. Right. Enjoy them. And there's not all as much as I might have expected. And the least what people are picking out of the exploration of, there are all these references to being in,

37:35what counties again, Harlan County in Harlan County, which historically, right? That's which side are you on? You know, there's the labor movement, the coal mining. I mean, we know the background. I don't know, somehow, somehow Raylon has had all these, he looks, he looks 40. But he's all, he's been a coal miner. He's been, you know, he's done all these things. Yeah, it's a cartoon. But he doesn't play like a cartoon. There's not, I think a lot of the audience doesn't really understand what Harlan County, the last, what Harlan County 100 years ago and what have been, what have been the experience of the grandparents, the people in Harlan County is really all about. Yeah. Well, Harlan, you know, basically Harlan County has depicted and justified is, you know, it's a bunch of drug dealers and moon chiners and, you know, bad people, you know.

38:36But part of that is, is because of the death of the coal industry, you know, the whole, the whole, the big industry in that region was coal. And when that all kind of went down, it's sort of, there was nothing to do, but, you know, take some more drugs. And so there. Thank God there's plenty of law. There's always lots of that going around. So I don't have to, I don't have to turn to drugs. Right. Nick, you've been a great sport. It's great talking to you. So how much energy are you putting it to try and get this independent film making made? Is that the main thing? I, we have a company in Nashville that's in the process of raising the money. And, you know, we as soon as we get our first monies in, we're going to start, um, you know, the, the, the, begin the process hiring, hiring a casting director and get the movie populated. And then, you know, if you get some decent stars, that's when the money will come in more easily. So that's going to be interesting. So you need to find people who can pull it and it's, it's, it's the setting is the 50s?

39:4260s. Like 60s. Yeah. So I guess one of the through lines is, I know this is in the country. A lot of the people who were country musicians during that time, came out of the gospel tradition. Well, Elvis for sure, you know, and there was this moral quandary. Yeah. And of course, that's what the, that's what the movie's really about. It's, you know, the, the, the sort of background story is like this, where gospel and rock and roll start to bleed into each other. It's the jazz singer for Gentiles. Yeah. It kind of is. Yeah. It kind of is because our lead character is the piano player and like he joins the score. Ted and the quartet gets very, very popular because he plays, he learned how to play from playing the blues. And so his, his boogie, woogie is coming through in the gospel and people are, you know, some of the characters in the movie are a little Pauled by it.

40:43And it's like, there's a little too much Satan in that left hand, young man, you know, the hot, the hot music is bleeding in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we have, hopefully that's, you know, I really would love to get that done. So when it does make sure you're social media friends and know to help and help push it. You will. You bet. And of course, when you need, you know, when, when you have the cast, the obnoxious Hollywood agent, the studio guy, remember, Ron's still waiting to be discovered. Well, there's a lot of, there's a lot of shady executives that, you know, that you can definitely play one of those guys. The New York guys coming in going, Hey, we can make some money off this cracker stuff. I will. Yeah. I mean, listen, they say I have a face for radio, but I'm right. Nick, fantastic chatting with you. I'm glad we got to know each other after all these years. I felt that we were moving in parallel tracks for many years, having a lot of the same

41:46friends. And finally, we want someone's panel show was maybe George, but George's giant slider. We on it with him. Yeah. Maybe it was. I don't know what. Yeah, you're on all, and I noticed that about you know, that's, I love when I see people who are, you know, famous, either internet famous or, you know, famous famous, agree to come on to Quaint shows because what the, why the hell not? Yeah. Why the hell not? Yeah. Man, I had a guy cancel on me. After having been, I'm not sure once before, like he's a well known culture warrior. Yeah. And the word got to me that his people didn't, his people had told him not to. And I think it was because my, my show's too small. I think that's all it was. Yeah. Yeah. And as you can tell, I don't, I still want to get bigger after this, Ron.

42:50This is the break up in waiting for great. Hanging that. Let's do it again or something very similar to it. Thank you for culminating with me this fine day. So good to see you. Same here. Hey, thank you for listening to the Coleman Nation podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app. If you like the show, please rate five stars and leave a review. For more information, please visit the show's website at Coleman-nation.com. It's Coleman-nation.com, or you can visit my blog at likelihoodofconfusion.com. Join us next time on the Coleman Nation podcast and have a great day.