The Noble Eightfold Path: Step Five: Right Livelihood

0:00Hello, my name is Susan Piver, I'm a writer and long time practitioner and teacher of Buddhism. I've come to see that many people think of Buddhism and meditation practices associated with it like mindfulness as ways to reduce stress, but I would like to tell you that the Buddhist path is far more rich than that. It is a way to wake up, to become liberated from suffering. And forget about enlightenment, it's also a way to live your everyday life, more fully and meaningfully. This podcast is to share with you classical Buddhist teachings that I have found enormously beneficial, and also to tell stories from my own life about how I applied and misapplied these teachings. And I do want to tell you from my more than 30 years of experience that the Dharma is real and it provides an extraordinarily nuanced, profound and pragmatic guidebook to living a life

1:06of wisdom, compassion and courage. Our topic for this episode is right livelihood. Step five, on the noble eightfold path, which leads to complete liberation from suffering. So wow, how did right livelihood get on there? That sounds kind of prosaic. You mean the job that I do, the place that I work, the way I employ people, the kind of a teammate or colleague I am, those things can help me to become enlightened. Well, I'm going to propose that they can't, and I'll share with you why I think that. But first, let's take a quick backtrack on the first four steps. The noble eightfold path begins with right view, which means seeing clearly. And here, seeing clearly does not mean you understand something or you're knowledgeable about something. It means you are glimpsing whatever it is beyond your projections onto it. As a tall order, right view. Second is right intention,

2:17which arises naturally or more easily when you see things directly. Your intentions can arise in a way that does not create conflict. That in fact creates more ease. Third, right speech. Your words stem from right view and right intention. And therefore stand a much better chance of creating sanity and goodness in the world. We need those. The fourth step, right action. One step beyond what you say, but what you do, right action is doing things that increases compassion and love and sanity and the things that we long for. And now we come to right livelihood, which as mentioned, may sound prosaic like what does my job have to do with my spiritual journey? Or how is it that my job can help me become fully liberated like a Buddha? Well, according to this body of knowledge, it can. So we're going to look at right livelihood through three lenses

3:23called the three Yanas or vehicles. And if you've listened to previous episodes, I've talked about these three Yanas before. So if you've heard it before, I hope you'll enjoy hearing it again. But the three Yanas or vehicles also refer to the three main cycles within the Buddha Dharma, the three main cycles of teachings. The first cycle, the Hina Yana or foundational vehicle, are teachings on what you need to do to just get started, to get on the path, to begin your journey, to set things up properly. So Hina Yana teachings, foundational vehicle teachings include many, many things, including the Noble Eightfold Path, but also emphasizes qualities like simplicity, discipline, and renunciation, just for three examples. And renunciation doesn't mean only doing unfun things. It means renouncing useless things, I would say. So we're going to apply that to right livelihood in a moment. The second Yana, Mahayana, or greater vehicle, is not about teachings

4:29that are better. That's not the meaning of greater here. Rather, greater means you in the greater world. Now that you've gotten some sense of flow in your inner journey, now you can create that sense of flow in the way you relate to others. So the Mahayana teachings are about love, compassion, and bodhisattva activity, bodhisattva means awakened being, one who is committed to being a benefit in this world. And this too will relate to right livelihood. And then the third Yana, the Vajrayana, are the mystical teachings within the Buddha Dharma, teachings on immediate awakening, teachings on how to interact skillfully with the animate forces of our environments. This too will relate to right livelihood. So we'll start with Hinayana, foundational vehicle. Within the Hinayana, the view of right livelihood is very specific and clear. It means avoiding

5:29professions where you will do harm to others or to yourself. This includes working for organizations that make weapons, that enslave human beings, that butcher animals, and that manufacture in toxicants or poisons. Okay, I think we can all agree it would be very preferable not to create weapons or prostitute human beings and so on in order to put food on the table. So basics, but very important basics. And of course there are complexities even here, but nonetheless, we'll leave it at that. Now the second view, the Mahayana view, the teachings on relating to the world, relating to others for the benefit of all, is a very complicated one when it comes to right livelihood. And I say this because no matter how well trained you are, no matter how skillfully you have prepared for your job, whatever it may be, no matter how creative you are,

6:30innovative, insightful, brilliant. Those things tend not to be the factors that create right livelihood. Rather, the ability to relate to our fellow human beings kindly and with courage are more likely to create the circumstances for right livelihood than your own smarts profound as they may be. And I'm sure they are. So I'm a Dharma teacher. I used to work in the music business. I have had work in the publishing industry, creative pursuits, in other words. And I've been around a lot of entrepreneurs and solo-prinners, especially in the earlier days of the music business. And of course, my professional life came into focus during an age of constant disruption, meaning online, everything. So again, I've seen a lot of people with really good ideas

7:30who are able to raise a lot of money and are really, really smart and high of great people. However, I have also noticed that at some point, almost every operation has been derailed by someone getting pissed off at someone else because they took my pencils. I mean, that's not really an example, but someone's going to get pissy because you took their stuff or because you didn't credit their idea or because you didn't listen to them or you repeated something that they told you in confidence. Or I don't have to enumerate. I don't think the various conflicts and disconnects that we discover in the workplace. These are important and these are useful. And this is where I think we come to the crux of the matter of why this is on the Noble Eightfold Path. So we're going to take a little side trip here, but it's going to relate, I promise. In the Buddhist view, there are three jewels that guide you on the path to liberation.

8:31This is a separate teaching from the Eightfold Path, but we like a lot of numbers and lists and Buddhism. So these three jewels are the following. The first is called Buddha, which doesn't mean the person, aim Buddha, because Buddha means awake. So the first tool, the primary tool, the irreplaceable tool, the indestructible tool, because you always have access to it, is your own wakefulness. So that's a good place to start. The second jewel is called Dharma, which means path or wisdom or teachings or understanding. And this jewel comes into play when we contemplate our wakefulness and our journey, and so on, very broadly speaking. And then the third jewel happens to be the most important, although Buddha, wow, that sounds pretty important. Dharma, that sounds damn important too. But the third jewel, Sangha, community, is most important because this is where it all comes together. This is where the rubber meets the road. This is where your

9:37journeys into wakefulness and your contemplation of the path are tested, are used, come alive. For most of us, Sangha is the workplace. That's where we have to get along with others. That's where we have to apply what we have learned and show up every day with a willingness to engage kindly and fiercely. I never like to leave that out because kind doesn't mean, oh, you just show up with warmth and compassion at all times because sometimes warmth and compassion are silly. We need something more ferocious than that, but that's another story. So for us, householders, meaning non-monastics, non-cave dwellers, but still practitioners, this is where our practice shows itself. I would say in the workplace. So through the Mahayana lens, livelihood

10:39is a stage for making our bodhisattva activity manifest, for putting our gifts and our craziness and our intentions and our confusion on the table for the benefit of all beings. That's a big one. And then the third Yana, the Vajrayana, the teachings on magic and relating with the liminal space, one could say, we're going to present yet a third view of right livelihood. And I'm making this up, I'm making a lot of this up. I just want to be very frank about that based on my observation, my experience and so on. So in Vajrayana Buddhism, there is an emphasis on something called Protector Principle. So we don't just show up in the circumstances of our life, mainly in our practice or our creative pursuits or our love affairs, without invoking some sense of boundary,

11:42guardrail, protection. Because the idea as spiritual practitioners isn't, I'm open to everyone all the time for any reason, that is a terrible idea. If we want to deploy as powerfully as we can, our gifts and our heart in this world, we have to build in protection. Historically, in wisdom traditions, as far as I understand, there was never any idea of spiritual practice without protection. The protection was provided in a number of ways, first through context. I'm practicing in a lineage, in a society, in a culture that gives what I'm doing depth and meaning. So I'm not just naval gazing here. I'm part of something big, profound. I may like some of it. I may not like it. That's okay. The context, the container is necessary and it provides protection.

12:44Protection also comes from knowing how to work with your own mind. This doesn't mean knowing how not to get upset or be hurt when painful things happen. It means having a sense of, I got a tool kit in here and I'm going to pull the right tool out of my bag at the right moment whenever possible. And these tools in Vajrayana View are called the four karmas and I made an episode about the four karmas so you're welcome to go back and listen to that if you like, but they are the following. To pacify, which means again, see clearly, to enrich, to give something or withhold something that will deepen the meaning of whatever it is you're facing, to magnetize, to see what is drawn in. And the final karma is called destroy or cut or let go. These provide protection and in the Vajrayana View, as mentioned, are associated with the protector principle. I know how to pacify.

13:47I know how to enrich. I know how to magnetize or how to interpret what is magnetized. And I know how to let go of what is no longer useful. These are profound sources of protection. So why are we talking about protection? I'm fixing to tell you, money is a form of protection. This is a crazy world. I do not have to explain to you why I say that getting crazier by the moment. In order to weighed in and navigate with our full power intact for the benefit of all, including ourselves, we need protection. And in consumerist society, cash money is protection. When you have it, you not only can eat food and live inside, but you can accomplish what you would like to accomplish. When you don't have it, being a spiritual practitioner or a bodhisattva in the world comes with a lot of obstacles. So of course, there are people who are like, well,

14:49I'm worked to make money and that's the whole reason. And I just want to make more money. Okay, whatever, go ahead, you people. But for spiritual practitioners, I want to make money. I'm talking about myself, but I'm also talking about you because I want to do my work in this world. And I want to do it with joy. I want to create what I envision. I want to give my gifts before I got an exit stage right. In order to do that, I have to make money. And I want to make money. I'm not trying to say otherwise. So another side note here, in the world of spiritual teachers, Dharma teachers, such as myself, there is a lot of argument and controversy over, should you make money or not? Even at one point made an episode about this in the early days. But when notices that when Dharma teachers, such as myself, want to make money or get paid for teaching Dharma, people get upset. Shouldn't it be free? Well, yeah, sure. If you're a monastic

15:52and you live inside and someone else gives you food to eat or you are a cave dweller, you're sitting on a mountain top or in a cave to voting your life to attaining liberation directly. Well, they're not worried about paying bills and so on. But the point I'm trying to make is in order for me, or people like me, perhaps you too, to fully express and manifest right livelihood, money has to be considered. So the last note on that, the Vajrayana view of right livelihood, is the following. When Buddhist teachings reach a new shore, they take on attributes of that culture and change that culture in some ways. So, for example, when Buddhism landed in Japan, it blended with the dominant culture then, which was the Shinto religion and became Zen.

16:53Shinto changed to some degree, Buddhism changed to a larger degree, I would say. When Buddhism reached China, it also blended with the dominant culture and was changed by it and changed it. When Buddhism came to Tibet, it encountered the Bun tradition, the indigenous religion of Tibet and it was changed by Bun and Bun was changed by the Buddha Dharma. Okay, now it's here very early days. What is Buddhism going to blend with here? How will Buddhism change and what will it change? And this is where we get to what I think of as the very core of right livelihood for Westerners in 2026, which is our dominant culture, I posit, is not Judeo-Christian philosophy. Much as I know there are people who will really like to argue with me about that, the values that dominate our society are consumerist values. Now, personally, I don't think we can argue with that. So,

18:00now Buddhism is here and it's meeting consumerist culture and we can see evidence of that. There are courses and monetization strategies and social media followers and okay, no problem. I have nothing against those things. Myself, unless the Dharma itself is sacrificed on the altar of Maman, on the altar of consumerism, that would be very, very bad. The counter view is okay, we're serious spiritual practitioners, Buddhists are not, we are serious about our spiritual journey and we're going to try to tiptoe around consumerism, ignore it, look down on it, pretend it doesn't matter, live on donations and I'm just going to try to ignore the culture that I'm operating in. Well, that's a terrible idea. However, we are at a moment where Buddhism can influence consumerist values in some way yet to

19:05be seen and I'm just saying this based on indications from the past of what happens when Buddhism encounters a new culture. So yes, it will be changed. It will be something that you can purchase access to. That's not necessarily a terrible thing because the people that are offering the access have to live inside and eat food again and have health insurance and all those things. But it can also change what it means to be in a transactional relationship with another person or an institution where money changes hands. Can principles of kindness and an understanding of interdependence seep in to the way we conduct business? Yeah, I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. So to summarize, right livelihood, three views, first view, don't manufacture weapons or

20:06enslave people or produce poisons for sale, to recognize that your workplace, whether you work alone or with the thousand people, involves relationships and a lot of vulnerability. We're all showing up at work with dreams and failings and fears and can the way you relate with people in the course of your day-to-day work life bring benefit to both of you and the third view crushing right livelihood to any degree provides important and powerful protection for you to complete your mission, whatever it may be here on planet earth. So those are the key points, I would say. Thank you for listening. Next step on the Noble Eightfold Path, next episode, right effort. So for our after party for this podcast episode, I want to play a song that I have

21:06listened to as with other songs I play for you all, like a million times. It's called and please French speaking people forgive my terrible accent. This track is called La Bien, La Mal, and it's from a record that came out in the early 90s called Jazz Mattaz created and produced by an extraordinary artist, I would even say a genius whose nom de plume, more French butchery, it was Guru, Guru's Jazz Mattaz. And on Jazz Mattaz, volume one, he recorded tracks with various artists. So it wasn't just him, it was him plus someone else. And La Bien, La Mal, is a track made with MC Solar who has incredible flow. He is a rapper associated with France, but I think he was born in Africa. And when you hear the two of them, I guess this is why I chose this song this time, talking to each other sonically and verbally, they actually exchange words.

22:13You hear the essence of right livelihood, not trying to be cute, but they're making something together. And my feeling, not knowing either of them, not having been there, is that each made the other better. And you can feel love between them. So MC Solar, I presume, still records, I hope he does. Guru died young. I think he was like 47, 48. I believe it was cancer. He got sick and died. It was just a tragedy for so many reasons. But the talent is, it is cliche to say, I'm going to say it anyway, the genius lives on and you'll be able to hear it in La Bien, La Mal.

23:24It's a rollercoaster, like in the discotheques, it reflects the light and without it. I like the images, because I'm like you, the weight of the words and the shock of the words. You hear the essence of right livelihood, not trying to be cute, but they're making something together. And you can feel love between them. So MC Solar, I presume, still records, I hope he does. It's a rollercoaster, like in the discotheques, it reflects the light and without it. It's a rollercoaster, like in the discotheque, not trying to be cute, but they're making something together.

24:24No without a doubt, and it's not good, you don't lie. The Bien, Le Ma, Le Ma, Le Good, You don't lie. The Bien, Le Ma, Solar. It's the world of affairs, on the misery, the reality, the reality. It's a rollercoaster, like in the air, nothing, I'm all alone, the existence is God, the existence is better. In a worse place, the front is wide, the front is the back, the back is the back, the back is the back. I come and piece, what's like, I'm trying to find the soul. I gotta let them know, gotta let them know, they say no game, punk, because you could wind up dead. We'll pull it to the head, from the passage left, am I your mentor? And this is for your benefit, so kill the noise, cause the mood points in heaven. It's a rollercoaster, like in the air, nothing, I'm all alone, the existence is God, the nature, the reality, the reality. The Bien, Le Ma, Le Good, You don't lie. It's a rollercoaster, like in the air, nothing, I'm all alone, the existence is God, the reality. The Bien, Le Ma, Le Good, You don't lie.

25:26Yeah, my man emcee's so loud in the house I know that's the glue, know that's the tool Know that, know that, know that At the home bar, so Jimmy change it Might be a fool, smoothing, losing Blackjack, the man, Terry, Brownsets, Brownsets City MC, the men I'm lucky, the men I'm lucky My name is Bruce, I'm playing it more Strike the reaches, who's bass It's a dog, I'm never crafting I get a hole in the towel, I get a hole in the towel I'm standing, taking those shorts, they're not your friends It's the booty that's bad, they're not mine