The Kevin Karius Show - Mar. 25th, 2026 - Steve Aschburner

0:00We welcome back Steve Ashburner from NBA.com. Good morning, Steve. You're with Kevin Carrius. Once again, thanks for jumping on Sports 1440. It's always really appreciated. Hi, Kevin. Thanks for having me up. Hey, I wanted to maybe just start off with this the 65 game rule change that the PA is kind of pushing, I guess, a little bit because of the Cade Cunningham situation. What have you been hearing on that as far as that 65 game rule change goes here, Steve? Yeah, you know, I guess it's pretty much what the the players union is complaining about. You know, this is only an issue because players were not showing a lot of intensity regarding making appearances on the court. This came about after years of load management of healthy players in street clothes, you know, when a family of four drops, $800 or $500 to go to a basketball

1:03game and the the stars of the teams, particularly the visitors, you know, are sitting out. You're not going to see that one visit a year from Yannis Anthony Cumpo or from Luca Dongett or Kauai Leonard, you know, one of the greatest offenders of load management. And so players kind of brought this on themselves. I don't know where the union was at that point, complaining about, oh, it's going to deprive our members of congratulatory awards, you know, and honors, which, of course, are linked in, you know, on D.A. and even awards are linked into the level of future contracts, not just informally, but formally in terms of, you know, if a guy makes all NBA or is an MVP or something, you know, in a certain time frame heading into the contract negotiation, then all of a sudden it's an extra 30 or $40 million.

2:05Yeah. So, you know, that's wrong to begin with that something that I vote on can either gain or lose a player that I cover independently, a huge chunk of money. I mean, in theory, in theory, that player's agent could contact all the media voters for these awards and, you know, say, hey, you know, if it happens to fall my guy's way, might see a check in the mail. You know, I mean, it sounds silly, but, you know, and we have integrity, I believe, most of the voters, by and large, a large percentage, just bring, you know, a certain integrity and they're going to vote their opinions, mostly because we're all opinionated and we don't like being steered in any direction. You know, but I just think the union is a little late here

3:06in terms of, you don't like that the players might get screwed in a certain level. Meanwhile, fans were getting screwed with a harder money when they went to watch games. The other thing I'll say is that, you know, the MVP who played the fewest games in NBA history in a regular 82 game season, I believe was Bill Walton back in 1978 with Portland and he played because of the injuries that ended his season. He played a total of 58 games, which to me means the media, the voters, have done a pretty good job for the years of sort of regulating that all informally. You know, my first thought when I heard about the 65 game rule was, I factor that in. I mean, you know, you hear it from coaches all the time. You know, one of the best abilities is availability. And so the guys that don't play as often,

4:07if a guy has a great year and he played 63 games and somebody else had a great year and played 78 games, you know, any any type breaker is going to go to that guy who put it out there on the floor for his team and the audience more than, more than others. So, you know, kind of was regulated. We didn't see a bunch of of players getting major awards or I believe even making all NBA teams with, you know, very few appearances. I think Zion Williamson, because he was so injury prone from the moment he arrived in the NBA, I think that he started to get, you know, votes for rookie the year or, you know, when he only play a play that a minimal number of games and things like that. But it was rare. And so, you know, if they somehow abolished a 65 game rule, that doesn't change my mind. I mean, if a guy's not playing often enough, it doesn't mean I'm compelled to vote for him for an award. Look, kid cutting him is legitimately hurt.

5:09He ended up with a collapse long, you know, and should it wipe out everything he did prior to this? No, but if it wipes out anything, it wipes out our ability to put him on an all-in-the-a squad. He's not going to win MVP. I doubt he was headed toward that anyway. I don't want to be, you know, presumptuous and preclude him from that. But, you know, this stuff has always had a way of working out without controversy. But right now, the union is going to bet for its dues-paying numbers. That doesn't speak any louder to me than other voices in this discussion. Thanks for clearing that up, Steve, because I guess, you know, we are talking about two things at the same time here with, as you say, Yanis and also with Cunningham, who's legitimately out. And as you say, I guess it's, you know, it's follow the money if he is first team all NBA. I mean, again, that's, you know, his agent who's a Jeff Schwartz

6:13would say, yeah, I mean, my client deserves this, deserves that because of what he would have accomplished if you are not counting that 65 game threshold. Yeah, you know, and the funny thing going on, I think the union picked up two on Yanis's behalf because, you know, they're now claiming that the books are blocking Yanis from playing or trying to stop him from playing because they want to improve the draft position and that after being injured for much of the season, you know, he wants to get out there and play. I, you know, I tend to think that a reason they're holding off is they don't want him to get hurt in largely meaningless games, which then would muddy trade talks in the off season. You know, if he gets hurt late in the year, if he, I mean, God forbid if he did something serious, like, you know, torn Achilles or ripped an MCL, but or an ACL, excuse me, you know,

7:13then what do you, what do you got? The books don't have the player anymore for a year and, you know, they can't move and he can't go somewhere. So I think it's mostly to keep things in a bubble such that they can get whatever they deem to be maxed out of your free Yanis. I don't think they worry about Yanis coming out and winning the games by himself. I think until he came back recently, they were no better than a 500 team with him on the floor and 500 over what's left of the season isn't going to get them anywhere. Steve Ashburner with us on the Kevin Kirishu in sports 1440. So without cutting him, what do you like about the pistons? What do you, how do you, how would you assess their chances here in the East without cutting him? Well, I think they're good. And I think lately without cutting him, they've been showing that, you know, they can figure out ways to win games, you know, even when he's not on the floor. Now, I don't think that's a long-term strategy where you're going to be, you know, top teams, playoff teams four times in seven games

8:16without your best player. I mean, he's head and shoulders, you know, the pistons biggest talent and leader. But I like their toughness as a team. When they have Isaiah Stewart, who I think is a hothead and can get a little bit dirty. And likes to flex his boxing roots a little too much. But he does protect the rim. He does bring an intimidation factor. He and Jalen Dern inside, you know, are pretty formidable. And I think that that plants a seed in their opponent's minds about how much they want to attack the paint. I think J.B. Bickerstaff, other than the fact that people have gotten used to the pistons being good over the course of this long season, you know, I would think he'd be a favorite for coach of the year to have the best team in a conference after a team just a couple of years ago, you know, was winning something like 14 games. You know, they tripled their win total last year. And then, you know, and now they're, you know,

9:19the best team in the East. So I like the pistons a lot. They lack experience in playoffs. That's sort of the glaring, you know, flaw in their formula, assuming that Cunningham is able to come back in time for the postseason, you know, but you get experiences you go. And when you're playing the survivor of a play in bracket at, you know, one versus eight, you know, you, you have time. You either dispatch that team in four or, you know, you toy with them over seven. And, you know, you still have time to sort of gain experience in jail and, and mature for that next step, even in the short term. So no, I like to try to come out of the East as much as anybody else. Steve Ashburner from NBA dot com, our guest on the Kevin Kirishow in sports 1440. The Toronto Raptor sitting in the five hole right now, right now as you know, Steve in LA tonight, to take on the clippers of basically a 500 team.

10:19Have the Raptors surprised you at all this year? What's your assessment of our Canadian team? The one thing that surprised me is that if they should end up in a showdown, a playoff series against Cleveland, I think they've beaten Cleveland every time they've met this year. Now, the, the asterisk on that is those meetings came really early in the season. I think they all came before December, certainly before the turn of the year. So, you know, things morph over that time. So that did surprise me. I have to admit that I haven't spent a lot of time on the Raptors just because I don't feel they've been that compelling. I think they've just sort of knocked around, you know, are they a little, a little, you know, a little above 500 not making any noise in the East to speak of, you know, I'm aware of some of the young talent because of, you know, one of my duties at NBA dot com

11:20is to do our weekly rookie rankings. And I've done that for a number of years. So I see these guys as they come in and, you know, some of them sort of peak early and aren't part of any long-term plan. And other guys, I mean, that's where they announced their presence in the, in the NBA. And, you know, Colin Murray boils this year, if not for injuries, he would have been a regular on the weekly rookie ladder that I write. And I like it, I like the fact that, you know, not all of the rookies, you know, make their bones offensively. You know, I mean, he had a game the other day where he blocked five shots, if I recall correctly. And, you know, he's always had a defensive bent to his approach. And I like that a lot. And I thought that really fit the raptors. So, you know, they've got talent. I mean, you know, scatty Barnes is a fun player. I mean, he's sort of a versatile, you know, it gives you what you need in certain circumstances.

12:24Brandon Ingram's a score. You know, so they do have the talent, but I just, I don't see them. A first round upset, maybe if they play Cleveland, if they can get that, that opponent, and somehow they handle, I mean, that would be significant. I mean, Cleveland was the best team in the East last regular season. They haven't had that sort of traction this year, but they do face expectations even greater than they did a year ago because, you know, everybody said the wait. They always seem to underachieve by around or a level. And so if Toronto were to have a hand in, you know, bumping them off and causing probably significant changes with the Cavaliers, that alone would be sort of a victory within the mindset of the league. As you said, Steve, you focus a lot on rookies with your duties at NBA.com. And I mean, this year's been really good with Conkiniple Cooper flag. I don't know how you have them ranked in your mind. And I saw your latest article here about VJ Edgecomb,

13:28pushing up the ranks. Maybe just touch on what you've seen with some great rookies in the NBA this year. Yeah, it's been sort of a fun year to cover the rookies, because the rookie class of 2025 has been so deep. You know, there've been some recent seasons where, all right, let's see. How can I, how can I tell guys that are really not big factors for their teams? But, you know, it wasn't a deep class. And when Stefan Castle was working the year last year, he's a very good player and he's gotten better. But he was not one of those, you know, tent pole rookies that are franchises going to say, this is our guy. Now, they had already gotten him. It would vicar one minyama. So, Stefan Castle didn't need to be that. But, you know, it was that sort of a rookie season a year ago. But this year, I think they've been about, the latter goes 10, 10 ones deep. And I would say there's, you know,

14:30we can leak out this 15, 16 guys that could lay claim to a spot. And so that's unusual. And I think just in terms of depth of talent. And, you know, really with a league that's on the verge of expanding by two teams, you know, depth of talent is pretty important. There's gonna be 30 players in the league soon. And they weren't here right now. And so, you know, you need to find those guys coming in. And we hear, you know, great things about the coming draft class as well. Look at the year thing, surprise me. Now, obviously, you know, it makes, you know, retroactively. It makes you wonder, why didn't Duke witness that national championship? If you've got these two guys in your forwards, you know, spots. Cooper Flight and Tom Kinepple. Now, Kinepple, you know, a major surprise to me. He went forth, I know some people, but that's too high for this kid. Well, no, not now that you look and you see that

15:32he's part of a changed culture in Charlotte. You know, they really believe that they can win. They do win. They win big often. Their offense is tremendous. They've got a lot of good things going on with the Hornets right now. And he's leading, not just my rookie rankings, but you know, the Vegas odd makers approach. And you know, Cooper Flag is more of the traditional, impactful star rookie where he comes in. He puts up big numbers for team that spotters. And you know, that's who you choose when you cast your ballot because, you know, he'll be a good player in this league. Kinepple's more of a modern darling in terms of analytics, shooting percentages, a subtlety to his game, you know, not massive scoring nights, but doing a lot of things that help your team win, even if it's taking a half step back on a given night,

16:32because somebody else has it going. So, you know, it's, some of it's going to be a matter of taste when the voters do vote. Am I, you know, my point with today's piece that went up today was VJ Edgecom, you know, has been great for Philadelphia. He's done for them at various points, anything they asked. And they've asked different things from him. He put up major points while the frontline guys, you know, and Bede and Maxi and George were out. And that, of course, you know, gets you a lot of attention. Scoring is still, you know, king in the NBA, but he did other things. And he, and he caulked in some of the gaps when they did have a star or two available. And he'll make defensive plays, you know, he's, he's as good a third choice for rookie of the year as I can recall in recent years. So, you know, I'll praise to him. He's not going to surpass the first two guys in scoring average or votes, but been a lot of fun.

17:37I, you know, right now I've got Knapple One, flag two, Edgecom three, the ballot goes three deep. If I had the, if I had the catch that today, that's what it would be. We've got to the middle of April. And, and things could shift subtly over those first two spots. Is there any one that could sneak into three like is, is Ace Bailey doing enough in Utah? Is that a guy that could continue to sneak up your ladder? The problem with that is if you, if you move somebody else into three, then you're moving Edgecom out. And I think he's earned, he sort of earned that spot. If Ace Bailey has gotten better, you know, almost month by month. And, and as the, as the jazz give him only as much as he can handle, you know, that's how you keep a player away from failures and setbacks is you just, you just, you lose in the, the ropes a little at a time.

18:39And he's, he really has improved. But I think at this point, given where Utah is or isn't on the NBA landscape, you know, the standings, you know, some near the bottom and what they're, what they're playing for, you know, the old saying is somebody's got to score in a bad team. So I don't know that he gets, he'll get a lot more attention by simply doing additional, you know, scoring from what he's done already. I don't know how much more he can, he can open eyes and therefore climb up in the ratings. But he'll get, he'll get votes, not that about it. You know, the, I've said it a long time, a lot of the awards voting, people forget, because they get, they get the shorts and a bunch when they say, wait a minute, now this guy was, he was every bit as good as that guy or nearly so. And, you know, but the problem is is when you cast a ballot, pretty much in any kind of voting, you cast a ballot. And if you think player A is a little better than player B,

19:40who's a little better than player C, well, if you get a bunch of players who, a bunch of voters, excuse me, who think that that's the order, no matter how close it might seem, it could look like a runaway, right? Because more people will put player A because he's just a little bit better in their minds. You know, you don't get sort of a, a bell curve because people don't say, well, you know, I know that there's 10 guys that are gonna vote for player A, therefore I'll vote for player B so that, you know, he is more represented in the result totals. You know, there've been some blowout with the year-belling results. They use a point system, not just the vote totals. And it's simply because a lot of us thought this guy was slightly better than the next guy. Well, the next guy ended up not getting any first place votes at all, but he was right there. So, you know, it could be really misleading, plus we live in an age where a lot of folks

20:43demand unanimity, you know, they don't like that other people have a different opinion from theirs. And so, I don't know, maybe in sports, that's fine because it generates conversation and discussion and even argument, you know, it kind of extends to the real world a lot of times, too, that you don't think like me? I don't like you anymore. Anyway, I'm going down a row here. Yeah, have you got time for one more, Steve? Sure. And I just wanted to kind of compare this and how you're talking about voting because we see it in the NHL all the time with the voting that happens with awards here. And it's about the games that are played on the West Coast with the writers and the people that are voting out of East that don't watch the games. To me, it doesn't make sense. If you're voting, you should be seeing all the games and that should be your responsibility. But does that come into play? Is that a problem that you find in the NBA, too? I don't necessarily think so with the voting Kevin. I think that the responsibility you speak of and the ability to record games

21:46and watch them in a hole or in part to watch truncated replays of games in order to see talent and what's going on. You know, whether it's somebody's defense or a rookie or the guy off the bench or how a coach handles his team, I think. I think the information is available enough. I don't think that it's a geographic thing. Now, with fans, with recruitment of players for programs, for things that fans are involved in. I mean, if fan voting in the NBA, they're encouraged to vote for a lot of these things but their vote counts as a small percentage of the final choices. Now, maybe during an all-star game, the fans vote my count more, but everybody's playing the same game at the same time. And so it's not a matter of, you know, a rolling time zone audience drop off or anything.

22:47But no, I didn't think that's legit. I think that sometimes, you know, as a fan, you might not appreciate, you know, a player who's constantly playing the 10 PM game. If you live on the East Coast and they're out West, you just can't. I mean, I can't apply it to me as far as an NBA fan because I've had this overwhelming wall of actually covering the league. But, you know, I'm in bed, I live on the East Coast now and I'm in bed by the time of one of those West Coast baseball games and I love baseball. But by the time they're, you know, past the first inning or so, and, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I don't, I don't. Then backfill to, you know, look at the box score or stats list, but I won't, you know, actually go back and watch a game. And so, you know, I would put my baseball fandom is probably, you know, more favorable

23:49to the Eastern and Central time zones. Right. Hey, Steve, thanks for the great insight. Really appreciate our conversations. Thanks for coming on as always and I hope to talk soon once the playoffs get rolling. You have to be making a rocking chair. Thanks for having me out.