The Jackpod: Promises, promises …

0:00WVUAR Podcasts. Boston. I'm Megna Chakrabardi and this is the Jack Pod, where on point news analyst Jack Bede helps us connect history, literature and politics in a way that brings his unique clarity to the world we live in now. Hello there Jack. Hello Megna. We're at episode 130. What's your headline? Promises, promises. Tell me more. Quote, a demagogue is a politician who don't keep his promises. That's Huey Pierce long who's sure knew from demagogues on the chasm between what politicians say running for office and what they can do in office. And by Huey Standard, 2026 is the year of the demagogue. A few Republicans qualify, he's

1:01looking at you John Sanuano and nearly all Democrats. Take Roy Cooper running for the Senate in North Carolina. His campaign slogan, make stuff cost less is a variant of the promise to lower the cost of living made by Democrats everywhere. Okay, I see where you're going with this Jack because I think we've heard this promise of since time immemorial whenever inflation got out of control. But I mean, look, the the Econ 101 textbook in my head makes me wonder other than I don't know like communist type price ceilings that that a government can put on things. Are there any things that politicians can actually do to make stuff cost less? Well, yeah, I mean, first, you know, just to be clear, stuff costs more. I mean, the contents of a kid's lunch box, for example, bread up 22% oranges, 17% crackers, 15% juice

2:05boxes, 20%. The juice boxes up over just last year, the rest over pre pandemic prices. But what can government do? Well, there's all kinds of suggestions out there from, you know, libertarian, Kato Institute, get rid of the sugar subsidy, quote, from anti-trusters, break up the big corporations, create more competition. That certainly would be one thing to get prices down, expand farm visas so that more farm workers can produce, you know, we can get a bigger yield from the from the fields. Removing tariffs and quotas. I mean, the democratic leadership in the house said their first order of businesses to eliminate cut the Trump tariff war with the world and in the in the Iran war. Good luck with both

3:08of those since the republic republicans will fill a buster in the Senate, even if they lose the Senate, they'll have enough to do that. And president would never sign the bills abolishing his tariffs. So you might say those are empty promises. But problem is people don't distinguish between inflation, which is bad and which keeps happening in the price level. And the price level, it usually is there because things are in short supply. And they were in the pandemic and they went up because of that and they haven't gone down and they're not going to go down. That's just the way that's just the way the system works. So if you can't just, you know, snap your fingers and make prices go down, you can do things like increase the minimum wage. Double it. I'm in Bernie Sanders in the first year of the Biden administration had a proposal to double to $15 an hour, the minimum wage. It was turned back in the Senate and you know, about eight Democrats

4:13voted against it. No, they do it again. We don't know. You can cut taxes on middle class Americans. And there are proposals like that. We've talked about them out there that would eliminate income taxes pretty much with people earning up to $85,000 a year. That would defray the cost of stuff. And maybe even result in a gain in real wages. And you know, you can do things on the larger scale, you know, make it easier to join unions. That's been around for a long time. You can lower drug prices, et cetera, et cetera. Also, it's the things can be done legislatively, but they run up against a stubborn reality. And this is Jason Ferman, the Harvard economist and former Obama economic advisor. He said Americans are worried about affordability. Things like housing and healthcare have built up over decades and they will not yield to quick

5:18solutions. Some problems just can't be solved politically. Oh, interesting. Or they can't be solved at the snap of some fingers. As he said, Jack actually color me convinced that there are some things that government can do to have some kind of impact on on the high prices. I mean, I take your point that it's not just some kind of mystical disconnect between supply and demand. That list that you gave was actually pretty convincing to me. I mean, tariffs being a big obvious one. That's that is kind of a quick fix. It won't solve all the problems, but it would go a long way. But going going back to how you opened this about a demagogue is a politician who don't keep his promises. I mean, if you're, if you're implying or stating pretty overtly that campaigning on making stuff cheaper is a demagogic promise. Jack then, okay, thinking about all the Democrats who are saying that in this midterm year, I mean, what do you think they could run on

6:26and actually deliver on? And the reason why I asked that is because some of the other things you mentioned, like tax cuts for the middle class or raising taxes on the wealthy, raising the minimum wage, you also gave us reasons right in that comment about how politically those things are not possible either. That's right. That's right. Advocates out the essay that an issue that's valid. Democrats can run on is to protect democracy from Trump. There's no question that a democratic House will will provide a measure of protection against the worst of Trumpism. I mean, there won't be rubber stamp legislation that would, you know, further Trump's anti-democratic agenda. And there'll be hearings and there'll be subpoenas and there'll be a check if not quite a balance. And of course, if the Senate goes, that would buttress that. So democracy will be better protected.

7:27Should the Democrats win the House and certainly, certainly, the Senate. So that's a valid issue and polls show and people advocate. It's one that could catch on. But the trouble is, it's an issue that resonates more with college grads than with working class voters. And there's a new study of what the House is called the class gap between the working class and college grads on major issues. And this study suggests that protecting democracy is a loser with working class voters. The study, more than 5,000 Americans, it was done earlier this year. And it's under the title of the left's coalition crisis, understanding the massive divide between working class and college educated voters. Both college grads and working class Americans agree that affordability is the

8:31first issue. So there's common ground. The gap quickly widens. For college grads, the main number two issue is protecting democracy. That's number 19 out of 20 for working class voters. 10 of the 12 issues for them are economic. The issues with the widest class gaps are immigration, 32 points abortion rights, 26 point gap between the sides, immigration, climate, 29 point gap. For working class Americans, the affordable basics, 85% protect social security and Medicare, 76%, raise wages, 60% lower crime rate for college grads. They agree about affordability, but then resist authoritarianism, prevent gun violence and racism protect access to

9:33abortion. Somewhat, sarcastically, the studies authors say the left has to choose between connecting with working class voters and pleasing constitutional law professors. I couldn't suggest the laugh. I'm sorry. And this matters of this business of the class gap because non-college voters, there's 62% of the electorate in 2024. In Michigan, 65% in Wisconsin, same. In Pennsylvania, 62% in Arizona, 64, in Georgia, 63. Jack, can I just jump in here for a second? Because those last numbers, you get to something that I just, I wish we could scream from the mountain tops over and over again. We're talking about the majority of voters, right? It's not some small marginal, special interest constituency. And I feel like sometimes in the, not you, but in the media

10:34kind of broadly or even in highfalutin political conversations, the working class is considered like this, this smaller constituency that happens to be quite influential. And I think maybe Democrats' calculus would change entirely if they began to think of these voters exactly and plainly as you described them as the majority of voters. Yes, yes. And the authors of this class gap study say that, you know, the trouble is the agenda for the Democratic Party is set by the, those with the diplomas, essentially, the activist class. And that sort of presented to working class voters and saying, see, you want to be a Democrat, this is what you've got to sign on for. There's a realism here. I mean, one reacting to the study, one Democratic activist says, well, if what it takes to elect pro-democracy leaders is for them not to talk about democracy, that's fine, which is a cynical, but probably realistic take on things. I just want to pause

11:42about one thing. There's a very profound observation in this study. Let me just quote it, being an American is one of the few high status categories enjoyed by working class voters. Think of that. And that, to me, throws light on why people resist, you know, all the furor about negative pictures of the American past. Trump trying to, you know, cleanse the Smithsonian of any indications in American history is less than a story of unequal triumph. I don't think people want that, but they want to be proud of their country. Yeah. And there is on the left, just I, you know, people can't help it because they know so much, I guess, but there's just a relentless focus on all the wickedness and evil in American history. I remember a generation ago when my son was in high school, the things he learned, what he learned

12:46about World War II, FDR, FDR, turn the Japanese Americans. And FDR didn't bomb the railroad tracks, leading to Auschwitz. This is, that's sort of what he came away studying the Second World War. I mean, that's what he was taught. That's it. And I just think this is a real issue. And, you know, it's an issue that puts historians sort of under focus. They are obliged to offer a balanced, not mechanically, but balanced as in reality, the versions of the past. And Republicans have been playing on this. Don't knock America for as long as I can remember. And, and if that is one of the few categories that high status categories that work in class voters enjoy, boy, you don't want to be attacking America. Oh, Jack, I'm so glad you said that because I don't know how we've come to a point in modern America where it's like the choices that were given are either

13:51jingoistic patriotism, right, or just kind of a compulsive self-hatred. I don't, like, why? Why can't an honest assessment of this nation include both critical analysis of where this nation has fallen short of its own ideals, but also when it's superseded those ideals. I just don't know why we've lost that. I don't know cognitive, even spiritual capability to both celebrate and grapple with the complexity that any nation is. Okay. You're going to get me off on a different topic. I can't wait to hear what Jack Potter say about that. But there's one thing I wanted to go back to, Jack. And that is you know, that college educated political operatives on the left say, well, if we don't have to talk about democracy in order to save it, another way that I would like them, I would recommend that they sort of change their point of view is that maybe what you need to start talking about is how to make

14:52democracy work better for people so that they don't feel a need to turn away from it. I mean, so that gets me to this question of, okay, since you started off talking about Democrats and Demagogic campaigning, is there anything that a Democrat running in these midterms could actually legitimately campaign on that isn't so abstracted, but also deliverable? There is. And that's corruption to root out corruption. Focus groups indicate that this is quote what one expert calls maybe the sleeper issue of 2026 and a just issued Gallup Poll backs that up quote, here's the headline record high 89% in US say government corruption widespread. And that's up 10 points just in the last year. And it's way above what it was just 10 years ago. And the and the and the and the

16:00Gallup people right in a country polarized across a range of issues. This is one case where bipartisan ship reflects shared values and shared consensus. And and there is so much of it out there. I mean, every day with the Trump administration, but the the Gallup people say even 83% of Republicans think, oh my god, we're going to do something about corruption. And the Democrats are finding traction with that in Texas, a Tallerico is pushing that all the way, you know, the corruption. We've got to root it out. But it's a it's an issue that cuts both ways. The Democrats have got to have got to come, you know, have got to be honest about their own corruption by special interest groups, by packs. It's probably a flammable situation for Democrats to be caught, you know, with packs

17:00supporting them, business packs and so on, on the on the one hand and on the other hand, decrying corruption, giving the appearance of being bought, but denying, you know, and but to crying the whole idea of bought politicians. So they've got to clean up their own house, but this does suggest that there is an issue that is as you put it, you know, you can it would resonate it and it resonates with working class voters for sure because it's a way of framing what's gone wrong with America. The elites are just taking the money. The system is rigged against us. That populist resentment, which Trump has been able to exploit culturally is also there economically and and corruption catches it. Yeah. So Jack, a couple of days ago in one of our editorial meetings, he mentioned, was it Mario Cuomo who said you you campaign in poetry, but you govern in prose?

18:00Is that right? Yeah. Because that phrase comes to mind again, because I guess I'm wondering I'm thinking of Barack Obama when he ran the multiple times he ran for office. I mean, to me, he's the apotheosis of poetic campaigning and the lofty ways in which he spoke of his hopes for America that really resonated, wasn't it? I'm overusing that word, but that really connected deeply with millions of Americans because it's an emotional. It's a call to the it's a call to the heart of people as Americans. And I would argue that in his own way, Donald Trump kind of he had an ability to have an ability to campaign with let's call it his Trumpian staccato poetry that connects emotionally with people. Now, the I would say the received wisdom for campaigning is that voting ultimately is an emotional act. So I guess what I'm asking is I don't know if you have any examples of someone

19:02who is able to still connect with voters emotionally, but not make those outlandish promises that, you know, obviously Trump hasn't delivered on almost all of his promises. And Obama fell very short on many promises. He made two. Yes. And I'm going to get to that in a second. Okay. And waiting for us in the wings, as it were, is John Travolta. Okay. At first, if Thanos compels me to note that Roy Cooper, who you know, my specimen Democrat, the two term governor of North Carolina running for Senate, he's no demagogue. His website bristles with plausible proposals to lower the cost of food, energy, healthcare, housing, childcare, if a big one, the president is also a Democrat. So that's that's the gesture toward the complexity of Roy Cooper. But to get to John Travolta,

20:02here is the platonic ideal of a truth-telling politician. In the 1998 film, primary colors based on Joe Klein's novel, Jack Stanton, who's the Bill Clinton stand in, very campaign really, not really follows Clinton, named Stanton through the primaries, addresses a sort of hall with shipyard workers in it in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and the place is falling that, you know, people machinery is being moved in the place is closing. And Travolta gives this in the film, gives this speech. I'm going to do something really outrageous. I'm going to tell you the truth. No politician can reopen this factory and bring back the shipyard jobs on make your union strong again. No politician can make it the way it used to be because we're living in a new world now, a world without economic borders. And in that world, muscle jobs go where muscle labor

21:08is cheap and that ain't here. So if you want to compete, you're going to have to exercise a different muscle. The one between your ears and he continues, he says, now this whole country is going to have to go back to school. I'll make this deal with you. I'll work hard for you, but you've got to do the heavy lifting all by yourselves. And in the film, of course, he's cheered to the rafters because he's told the truth. That's the Hollywood version. What do you be cheered today? No way. No, no, no. I think actually if memory serves one point in her campaign, Hillary Clinton may have said not in those words, but something a little bit similar about, you've mentioned this before about retraining. And I think I recall that going down just like a ton of red political. Yes, yes, yes. But in fairness, Bill Clinton did give a version of this in Chicago

22:08to workers. And I forget how they responded, but he did say the economy is changing and the old industrial jobs are going to go away. The question is, what do we do now? And then he looked at the audience and said, what do you do now? Yeah, although, I don't know, I have to say, Jack, I would completely nod in agreement with every voter who turns around and points their fingers at those same campaigning politicians and say, you broke it. What are you going to do to fix it? Hey, you created NAFTA. You accelerated globalization and you did it with all the profits flowing to corporations rather than protecting workers. You know, speaking of retraining, I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but again, it's about what politicians promise versus what they actually deliver. Long, long time ago, on point, we did a show about actual retraining schemes in different countries. And for example, I think it was in Norway or Denmark. There were workers there who

23:08said they never feared for their jobs, even though their jobs were constantly changing. And that's because the government or corporations spent quite a bit of money of retraining workers as the demands of the workplace were changing. We just don't have that here. And so, so I guess I'm just coming back to the fact that the disaffection and the anger that voters feel, I feel like it's very well supported. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, we've cited it before, but just the life chances of people born in 1980 versus those born in 1945, it's just narrowing, narrowing, narrowing for young people today. And clearly, you can see that in many of these primary results. Okay, Jack Potters, this is a really interesting one because Jack's bringing a couple of different issues to the table here. And I'd love to hear what you think. First of all, do you see

24:10high-falutin campaign promises as a form of demagoguery, as Jack says, because so many of these promises when it comes down to reality and the reality of governance today are extremely difficult and I impossible to actually achieve. And then second of all, thinking to Jack's example of what would truth telling on the campaign trail look like, what do you think maybe a politician running for election in your district where you are? Do you have any examples of that? Or what do you think kind of truth telling on the campaign trail could look like and also not cost, not cost a politician the election? What would work? Very interested to know what you guys think. So you know the routine, grab your phone, and if you have never contributed to the Jackpot, this is the time to get the on-point Vox Pop app wherever you get your apps. And that way you can send us a high quality

25:11message and as you know we're always looking for ways to expand the circle of contributing Jack potters. So don't be one of those long-time listeners never callers. Be a long-time listener first time caller. Okay, so Jack we're going to take a quick break but we'll have a lot more when we come back. It's Ben Brock Johnson, director of digital audio at WBUR. You've probably been following our consistent coverage of the Lindsay Clancy case, along with people around the country and around the world. Well if you want to hear even more from WBUR's own veteran reporter Deborah Becker, who has been covering the story for three years. We're putting deep dive podcast episodes and analysis about the Clancy case in a podcast feed. You can listen by searching Beyond All Repair wherever you get your podcasts. There is something powerful about the sound of the human voice. Beautifully produced audio has the unique power to connect and inspire. Tell your organization story with a custom podcast from city space productions, the Creative Studio from WBUR's business partnership

26:17steam. Become a thought leader. We're a create new talent. Reach new audiences. Whatever your goal we can help. Discover how the magic is made at www.org slash creative studio. Okay, Jack, we're back and last week I was not here sadly, but the very capable Dory Chimer sat in for me wonderfully. And I understand that you and Dory spoke with Sharon McMayan known on Instagram as America's government teacher and also host of the podcast The Preamble and author of The Small and The Mighty and you and Dory asked Jack Potters to tell us what you're doing in your own life to make small changes or small actions that could make the world a better place. And we heard from a ton of people. So let's start off with Roy in Mission Hills, California. He just became president of his neighborhood council. One thing that I have done is I've been able to get a playground

27:21in a fitness center and a park that did not have one for many years. That's my way of giving back is I'm going to be an advocate for my neighborhood and my city through the small community based council that I can be part of. Well, here's Ed Warta from Fountain Hills, Arizona. I organized an individual group in the town where I live and we have monthly meetings to talk about local issues and also participate in larger protests. The kind you hear about no kings. Okay, and one more here's Virginia from Bryson City, North Carolina who said that attending protests simply wasn't satisfying. So she searched for something else. And I kept thinking, okay, what is something that I as a one human being on earth could do that could really make a difference and ripple out into the world? A situation came to my attention and I am almost finished becoming certified as a foster parent. And as of July, I have a foster child

28:24living in my house. Oh, Jack, before I get your responses to these, can I just say this is probably a good thing I wasn't here because I would have last week, I would have spent the whole episode being like, Amen! Absolutely! Think globally, but act locally. I am, you know, we can actually make change. The arms reach away from where we are. And as Virginia says, even act intimately. Yeah. I mean, you know, what a wonderful thing to do. I mean, just, I'm just, you know, you can't praise that kind of generosity of spirit enough and it'll be so rewarding. I'm sure in terms of the course of childhood is and how I'm making it better for a kid who otherwise would suffer is not just a noble but satisfying thing to do. And yeah, the Eduardo, the picture of these have been divisible. That's that anti-Trump organized group all over the country that has run

29:27these sponsored these no-kings demonstrations being involved with them and their monthly meeting, that is really significant. And then Roy about getting the playground, you know, that's so, that's so important and there's a, there's a really quite moving film about this, just this very thing building a playground. It's called Living. It's a British film. It stars the incomparable Bill Nine as a government bureaucrat, British in the 1950s Derby hat, who prides himself on turning projects down. And there's a group of women who come from a bad neighborhood. Dodgy neighborhood as the English say and there's a vague lot where their kids play in the mud and Derby and they keep coming to the bureaucrats and charge at the parks and say, look, could you make a park there? And the Bill Nine, he tells us people, turn them away, turn them away. I'm just, that's my job. I turn them away. Then he goes to a, he goes to a doctor and the doctor says you have

30:29terminal cancer. And he goes on a journey of discovery. We're following by the way, the plot of the great Tolstoye novel, the death of Ivan Yiddich, who's a Russian bureaucrat who turns people away. And, and the short of it is that Bill Nine has a complete epiphany and he sees life from the end of life. And he comes back to the office, he fights with the bureaucrats. He builds that park. And the last scene, one of them is of Bill Nine, he's on a swing in this park. Just lovely little park around houses singing a plantive, plangent Scottish air of the Rowan tree. And if you can watch that scene without crying, you're, well, I don't think you can't. It's a great movie and I recommend it to anyone and it's just right out of the experience that Roy was talking. Wow. I have never even heard of that movie. So I'm putting it right on my list,

31:31Jack. You know, the other thing that when hearing Roy, Eduardo, and Virginia got me thinking about is that I don't want people to come away with the notion that I don't believe in the importance of protest, right? American history is rife with examples of how protest movements have been very instrumental in, in creating large scale change in this country and not just the United States, worldwide protest movements are important. But I guess what I come down to is it's not enough. If you're feeling powerless because you go to protest and you don't think anything is happening, like you don't think Washington is magically changing because you protest yet again, well, that feeling of disempowerment can be very toxic and there's no better way to actually feel re-empowered and, and create concrete change than working in your own community. As you said, whether it's doing something beautiful and compassionate, such as providing a child with a home to helping get a, you know, a playground built because these are all things that improve the

32:36quality of life for everyone right where you live, right where you live. And I've always thought that that's it's also a very personally empowering feeling. So, so with that in mind, let's go to Kara. Sorry, I paused there because I was actually going to just have a rant about social media and how hitting likes is never actually going to be enough, but I'll save that for another day. Kara is in Portland, Oregon, where she's part of a community group. Ha, speaking of parks, Jack, this community group is centered around a small park in Northwest Portland. Our mission is to make the park safe for kids because if you make it safe for kids, then it's safe for everyone. We hold little events where we play connect for, oversized connect for in the park and serve coffee and we just kind of wanted to be a law abiding presence in the park because there were people doing drugs in the park or whatever and when we first formed, I never would have imagined that we'd still be meeting every Friday, but we've been meeting once a week for three years now.

33:40And here's another one, Jack. This is Gretchen from Florida and she told us she tries to make a difference in three ways. One, finding common humanity with people who have different political opinions. Two, making voting a priority even in the off-cycle elections. And the third is showing up for causes I care about. Even when I doubt it will move current leadership, the USDA is trying to rescind the roadless area conservation rule under the banner of wildfire management, submitting a public comment and emailing Florida lawmakers may not change the outcome, but it's the right thing to do. Okay, Jack, your thoughts. They will react, their reacting Gretchen is to a quote that I used from Robert Kennedy, his trip to South Africa. And if I may, I'll just end with the passage of that speech that connects with what these people are talking about. He told the mixed race audience at the University of Cape Town. It is from numberless, diverse acts of courage

34:46and beliefs that human history is shaped. Each time a man, a woman stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve a lot of others, or strikes out against injustice. He sends a tiny ripple of hope and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. You know, Jack, there are so many, similarly wise sayings were quotes that evoke that same feeling. It's suddenly, as I was hearing you quote Kennedy, I thought of a hymn, I believe, I'm looking it up right here at him from 1913 called Brighton the Corner where you are. Do you know that? No. It was written by Aina Dulley Ogden. And the first verse of the hymn says,

35:50do not wait until some deed of greatness you may do. Do not wait to shed your light afar to the many duties ever near you now be true. Brighton the corner where you are. Oh yeah, I've heard that Brighton the Corner where you are. Is that the melody something like that? There's also a terrific book. Actually, I think it's set in North Carolina called Brighton the Corner where you are. I read it a few years ago. So put that on your list, Jack, if it's the one book. Absolutely. That goes there. I'm very low to recommend that you read books because I just presume that you've already read them all. All right, well with that, Jack, thank you as always. Thank you so much. I'm Megna Chakrabarty and this is The Jack Pod from On Point.