The HFWB Podcast Series Episode 305 FT. Caitlin Zigthor

0:00and just like that everybody we are back what is going on if you don't know now you do know you're officially tuned into a very special edition of the HFWB Park podcast series this is your host Clifton Pope and I have a specific guest today but we're going to be diving into something very particular with this is something that every business owner and every entrepreneur can definitely relate to I mean we got we got to fulfill our marketing needs we got to get our business out there we got to get the name the product and services out there that way we can attract the necessary consumer base based on our target audience and our ideal clients that we're trying to be in better service and supportive so the guest to on back the bring on definitely has a true passion in supporting small businesses and their everyday marketing goals she literally does it all for both for media marketing content creation product marketing overall business development strategy it is

1:03there and it's available to help meet your business needs and it's current and it's courtesy of sick or marketing and I actually have the face and the founder and the owner of sick or marketing on this special edition of the HFWB podcast breweries please welcome this Caitlin Zigsord at HFWB podcast breweries Caitlin how are we doing I'm doing great thank you Clifton what an introduction my goodness I'm blushing no no it's world deserved especially for all the work that you do on a regular basis just again like I said in the intro supporting small businesses in their everyday marketing goals which is pretty much your passion and you're literally taking the pressure off with so many entrepreneurs and business owners I can imagine just taking care of all that that way they could focus on the products and services without a doubt but before we dive into that in particular I definitely want to talk to you about you know that leap that you take you took

2:05personally from the corporate space the entrepreneur ship because I feel like anyone who goes in the entrepreneurship and business owner they always have to make like that decision to where it's like okay do I want to keep doing what I'm doing in the corporate space or do I want to take that leap in the entrepreneurship and take that risk on myself and bet on my skills that way I can reap the benefits of the rewards and all that what was the point for you Caitlin I made you decide hey I'm gonna leave the corporate world I'm gonna start my own business for those listening yeah it was one very particular moment in my career so I had at that point been a marketer for 13 years always in the sort of like marketing manager role so anything that was marketing related for the businesses I worked for landed on my plate I did everything from event marketing influencer relationships social media content creation website management like I truly have done it all and so with that I was a consultant and

3:06one of my clients I won't say names but one of my clients started getting more and more I think aggressive in what they were asking for and even just the the way they were asking for it and the way that they were demanding the work started to cross the line for me morally where I was like I do not like how you speak to my co-workers I do not like how you speak to me I feel like we can all get business done and we can all be successful and still be kind and still and still have certain levels of like we are all humans off the clock just the way that we are humans on the clock and so I remember telling my boss at the time I was like this I'm I'm crying in the workplace like this is not good this is not healthy for me this is not healthy for who I want to be and my boss was like you gotta suck it up and finish the project and I was like here's my two weeks notice so a bit of a very strong pivot at that point but I I had always kind of

4:07wanted to be an entrepreneur a little bit of a nerd alert I ran my yearbook in high school and ever since then I was like I could see myself doing that as my passion in life I could see myself doing that but I always wondered when will be the right moment when will be the right moment and that that was the right moment I was like you know what after 13 years I know I could do this I know this I have a very supportive husband and partner who is encouraging me to do this and I have a community of people who are cheering me on too so without that I don't think I would have been able to make that jump and I love how you just touched on the fact that when you when you ran your yearbook in high school that's what a literally literally fueled your entrepreneur should desire to work like you know what this may be possible after all it's not I may not be as far fetched as I thought and then when you factor in the community aspect of it the support system which is very very important because Jim Rohn says from the law of average is you're the average around

5:09the five people who hang out the most with and I feel like with the supporting community that you have Katelyn that was cheering you on saying you got this you can do this in all those homes that's what literally allowed you to put that springboard leap from leaving the course to corporate spaces you just described towards of course diving into that desire and our passion and that bringing the dream into reality of becoming basically your own entrepreneur and being your own boss with red to of course the birth of thick-thorn marketing which kind of ties into everything that you've kind of already been doing like you said Katelyn for the last 13 years but now it's all you this is your baby this is thick-thorn marketing which leads me to asking you kind of share the backstory behind thick-thorn marketing and kind of explain to those who are listening to this particular episode what can they expect as far as you know services and everything absolutely so one of the things that I really liked

6:13about my career is because I always was that marketing manager role anything and everything came across my desk so I don't think I've ever had two work days be fully the same I am always doing a little something new learning something over here trying something else over here so I liked that and I think in the industry right now there is a lot of niche specific marketers out there which has value and I do not want to say that that doesn't have value as a generalist though I feel like what I'm able to bring my clients my my small to medium-sized business owners I'm able to zoom out and see the big picture it's not just email it's not just social it's not just your brand positioning it's all of it that's everything that the customer sees and that's everything that I can support on as well so I think I think there is a lot of opportunity with the thick-thorn marketing to step in and say hey small to medium-sized business owners y'all are doing so much right you've got a to-do list 17,000 items

7:16deep and let me take on all of that marketing so you can focus on running your business and so that's what I really offer my clients is being a generalist and being able to not only offer high-level strategy but also the execution side as well I love that I love that and I love how you put it broke it down as far as being like a generalist and for those who are listening to this particular episode of Caitlyn kind of described what you mean by generalist in the terms of the marketing space for those who are unfamiliar with that yeah so traditionally in marketing you have either more niche specific roles right like so you might need someone who is a social media manager or a social media creator that is their bread and butter that is all they do they are deep in Instagram TikTok and Facebook and they don't leave that space that is what they do and they are the best at it right they are the subject matter experts in that field as a generalist I am able to work

8:20cross-channel so for example one of my clients right now she just launched a new location we are doing everything we are doing event planning because we're having a big opening party we are doing paid advertising to get the word out there that she's moved locations we are doing email marketing we're doing some business to business marketing as she's kind of making friends in her new neighborhood we're doing it all and being able to have a one-stop shop that can do it all and then as a solo pernumer it's me there's a whole team of people it's like this is me and my client working hand-in-hand to make this happen I love it for basically kind of like a generalist is kind of like a swith army knife in a way in the marketing space because as you just describe you're doing it all like you're doing the event planning you're doing the email marketing you're doing the branding you know 10th strategy it's like literally a one-stop shop and as I was doing my niffa research on you Katelyn

9:23to prepare for this conversation that's kind of what I had the idea of what zictor marketing was and everything and it kind of makes a whole lot more sense as you just broke it down and describing and I love how you basically as you just described Katelyn you're helping every single clients whether it's small medium or large-sized business zoom out see the big picture realize hey you have a lot on your plate as it is as far as managing the business and doing the products and services let me take some pressure off of you and do the marketing that way you could focus more on the business side of things and I feel like you know that's something that every business owner and entrepreneur can definitely benefit from I know I personally have benefited benefit it from it in the past with previous people I've worked with and all of that stuff like that so I totally get it and I totally understand exactly where you're coming from Katelyn and I know again you said it yourself you have a handful of clients that can deal with on a regular basis I want you to kind of

10:25describe like a particular like story or a particular situation where you are working with a client with everything that you're doing in the marketing space to where it's like you made such a huge difference in impact on their business to where even you Katelyn had to step back and take a moment and be like wow I'm really making a difference and making an impact within the marketing space and I'm definitely more than on to something what I'm doing is there anything that's takes out in particular in that regard absolutely last year I had a really interesting interaction with a still life photographer so she does commercial photography work oh wow okay okay shout out to Sarah Anderson photography um but then I first met Sarah we were having coffee and she was like I don't know where to start with my marketing and I was like okay that's often what I hear with my clients not a big problem what have you done like what where are we starting from and she was like no I mean I mean I don't know how to talk about myself I mean I don't even know if someone were to

11:28say pitch your services right now I don't know what I would say and I was like oh we are genuinely starting from point zero and that was such a it's citing moment because as a marketer you very rarely get to start at truly the beginning you usually and hear it some of the work as you've gone through and by the end of it we had the pitch deck we had some really key you need selling points identified about why she's different than other photographers in the area why her work stands for itself and she walked away from it and she was like you know I really feel like I'm ready to go hit the ground running with this like I feel now like I'm able to do the work that I haven't been able to do before this and that was a moment where I was like oh wow like you know money and contract aside I've helped set this person up like they are now able to go and run this business that I know that they can run and that that was a moment for me as a business owner where I was like wow I can't I can't believe I did that that's really cool yeah and the fact that you were able to

12:31do it and now you're even doing it for more and more people and it's like you're helping every single business owner and entrepreneur Caitlin just literally giving them insights on what marketing truly is all about because one thing that I've noticed just by looking up the marketing landscape alone Caitlin and you could definitely relate to this more than me is that it's constantly evolving constantly changing like what you thought was the latest trends for 2025 for example that's definitely not the case when 2026 and beyond previous years etc etc the reason why I bring all this because I want you to kind of share your perspective and your thoughts on how you feel the marketing landscape has evolved like say for instance in the last 13 years you've been in the industry as you've described then what are some marketing trends that you've personally have noticed as far as that business should be

13:32aware of in 2026 and beyond yeah well first Clifton thanks for bringing up trends because I do think most of my small business owners that come to me want to keep up with the trends they're like oh I saw this thing I saw this thing on TikTok I want to do this and so many times I hate to be a bit of a buzz killer here but you don't have to participate in those trends you don't have to make content that's going to inspire in two months right like we're not doing the same dance trends that we were three months ago no if you if you do a meme that has a timestamp on it right like that has an expiration date no one wants that to represent their brand for forever so trends definitely have a place I think most businesses that I come across we don't have to go chasing the latest and greatest trend there's a lot of really strong fundamentals that we can focus on to accelerate growth accelerate revenue without investing

14:34something that two months later you're gonna look at and cringe but I do think it's it's not even really a trend it's just something that often goes terribly overlooked is email marketing and I think so many people that are running their own business or maybe they have a team of like three to four people they're like I don't have time for this or I I don't even know what I would say in these emails but email marketing still continues to be one of the top revenue generating channels for most e-commerce and service provider brands so if you are not utilizing email and any capacity I I fully believe that you're leaving money on the table stay with us we'll be right back if you're a pet owner who wants real talk on training behavior and everyday life with animals check out the fresh patch podcast hosted by Drew and Gabe we cover the wins the challenges and everything in between so wherever you listen search the fresh patch podcast where good pets get it

15:43and you want to know it's funny about that carry one you you're not the only person who said that even people who I listen to like here like a one person who I like a little food when it comes to like just getting the insides of like marketing in general and all that stuff I don't know if you're familiar with Amy Porterfield yes she she she is she stresses the importance of email marketing like crazy and it's not just her it's a couple of other people so it makes me think like hey y'all everyone is saying the exact same thing so maybe we should incorporate that a little bit more versus focusing on what the latest trends are and stuff like that because I personally feel about trends in the marketing space I'm looking at it from a different perspective I could be wrong going with Caitlin I look at it as far as why why it's hard to trend when you can be the trend setter and it's time why try to participate in the algorithm where you can

16:46create your own algorithm and be your own algorithm that's kind of like the approach that I've been looking at it lately more so within the marketing place and that's just incorporating everything else that you've been talking about slowly but surely and I feel like there'll be a perfect balance to where you'll definitely have enough where you'll get your business out there first and foremost and at the same time bringing more consumers and clients to where you can have money on the table and all those kind of things so it's interesting interesting for sure and for those who are listening to this particular episode like Caitlin just said don't sleep on the power of email marketing in 2026 I mean yes we're so consumed with social media Facebook Instagram TikTok all those things last time I checked email I trusted her still a thing last time I check in 2026 it's not necessarily it's extinct I mean the way I see it that's how most business deals and private and professional conversations still get done is through email I can 100% and I you

17:53know I'm currently working with an e-commerce client that I would say on average each of their emails is bringing in anywhere between five to $11,000 in revenue so you if you are e-commerce focused and you are a service provider email marketing is so essential well well timed and well strategized email marketing don't you know don't just be spamming people no one likes that we all hate your inbox but there's there's a really strong strategy to it and it brings in revenue it really does consistently every time no I love that I might have to definitely revisit that myself and beyond I'll be completely honest that's what I did for sleeping on the power of email marketing so it's like hey there's always an opportunity to learn something new every single day and to re-implement old things that are basically very powerful and still effective just like as you know and without a doubt so I love that I really really do I want you to provide

18:54with some key pieces of advice some words are with them that you would give to that aspiring entrepreneur that aspiring business owner right like what would be three key pieces of advice you would give to someone who's contemplating like for instance leaving their corporate job to start their own business and how important is not working in community in the journey of being an entrepreneur in regards to that yeah yeah very good question I would say for someone who is pre that jump start talking about it now start manifesting it now start really honestly getting talk to your friends talk to your family about it see what they say it when I started kind of breathing life into it and when I started saying oh I think I'm gonna do this maybe maybe I'd so many people in my life that were like not maybe like for sure you're you're gonna do this and this is gonna be successful for you and having that community is so key networking something

19:57that a lesson I had to learn the hard way was I thought oh I don't need to network with other marketers because we're competing I don't need to network with them and and so for the first like six months that I launched my business I really didn't network I really didn't make a lot of connections with other marketers and now I would say 80% of my networking is with other marketers we all refer business to each other we all support one another I don't think I've met another marketer through those networking efforts that has been like oh like no we're competing over the same projects I don't want to work with you we all know that we can collaborate there's money to be made and we can all work together we can all refer one another I've seen people supporting other marketers during their mat leave like it's just it's really just beautiful and it speaks back to why I quit my job in the first place when people are yelling at you in meetings or or saying unkind things I look back on this and I'm like man every marketer that I've met has just held me up has pushed forward has said like we can do it you know this is how I want to do business I

21:03I want to make money and I want I want everyone to succeed and I want to be in work situations where I'm like please and thank you it's so nice to work with you I'm glad that you liked that you know rather rather than like toxic work environments we just don't need it right in 2026 the last thing we need is a toxic work environment exactly there's too much going on no but I love I love that and those are the powerful king pieces of advice for sure and for those who are listening to this particular episode please by all means rewind everything that Caitlin just said to let that sink in and marinate to work and empower uplift and inspire you to become a better version of yourself that you can be in that adds to what you were saying as far as shit you know networking with other marketers moving from my perspective looking at it with me being a personal trainer nutritionist and all those kind of things but at first I kind of had that same thought that you had Caitlin like why would I want to network

22:03what other trainers were we're competing for the same clients but then I realized I looked I took the step back and I'm like okay if I network with other trainers I could pick up on things on what to do what not to do and I could add it into my own program and be like hey I learned it from this person because they found it to be successful now it's making me that same amount of success as well so as you were saying that Caitlin what was ringing in my mind was simple keep on collaborating that way you could stay on top versus competing with each other and staying on the bottom that's a very very valuable lesson right there in 2026 and beyond that most people should benefit from alone for this particular episode of the hfwb podcast series now Caitlin actually I'm working at the point where I'm going to ask you a lift the questions that I usually ask everybody that comes onto the show to dive into your world a little bit and keep you on your toes just a little bit okay the first question I usually ask is what is the first thing you do or

23:07think of as you wake up every single day coffee need coffee never go wrong with coffee just request a hunger yep I think I think right after the coffee it's it's a focus on I have coffee with my husband we talked through what we're gonna do that day it's nice to just align on what are my goals for the day is there anything that I need to like stay aware of like is there something that I need to like be on my toes for and then start in my day like I wake up at seven I'm at my computer ready to go by step by seven forty five like I'm I'm definitely an early riser and an early worker nothing wrong with that that's usually when your cortisol levels within your body is at its highest peak so that's when you tend to get your best stuff done without a doubt how do you encourage everybody to do the exact same thing as well because that's how we can continue to work on things like I don't know improving our health to which allows us to improve our overall

24:07well because with my business health fitness wealth business Caitlin I'm a firm believer of health as well you can't have one without the other that's the whole purpose of why I want a personal trainer nutritionist exercise transformation specialist all those things I say all about the status Caitlin in your perspective what does health and welcoming for you? lately especially after becoming a business owner because I'm about I'm about a year and a half into it um if I don't make time for the gym I will go insane so I I need to really I have it like blocked in my calendar to a clock on Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm going on the gym and I'm weight lifting that like that is very important to me I think also as a business owner I I need depression time I think it's very easy to starve down a meal at your desk get more work done work until 9 30 10 clock at night and I've pulled those nights and I totally understand the most

25:08business owners have to pull those nights but having one night where I'm like okay this is my rest and reset night I'm gonna take like a bubble bath I'm gonna watch my real housewives it's good for the soul therefore that's kind of how I I think about it is like if I'm not at my best if I'm overstressed and and overworked I'm not gonna be able to provide my clients the best so I think my my health and my mental health in particular is very important to me when it comes to serving my business and my clients that is that is the key right there I tell my clients this all the time we must train our mind to where our body can follow soon we have to have times to where we need to check in with ourselves from time to time that way we're not burning ourselves out because so constantly focus on activating our mind to the grind right Caitlin we're so focused on just you know the next form of success the next form of a payday we forget about we forget about our own health and our overall well-being and we neglect ourselves in the process

26:10meaning it doesn't I mean we could chase all the success and the money all you want but what's good is that gonna do if you're not even healthy enough to reap the benefits of everything you're working hard for it's kind of like in a way time and energy and effort technically is being wasted to a certain extent so it's kind of like finding that balance yeah I understand that for sure for sure on one of the word community Caitlin what's the first thing that comes to mind for you for me personally my girlfriends I've I've such a good network of strong women in my life that have held that have held me up as I've started this business that have been there for the ups and downs in my personal life that is my community is is I have a network of people who are always the you can do it people I also people I also have my girlfriends that are like no that's crazy like they they'll they'll get checked me a little bit and you need that too right you can't you can't just be surrounded by yes people you do need a few people to be like are you sure

27:14is this the best you need you need a realist or two on your school to tell you like like we're kind of like you said gut check you hold your accountable like yo what are you doing uh that kind of thing it comes in handy that's for sure tough love that is tough love yes I'm gonna actually switch it up a little bit Caitlin I'm gonna throw you two options to see which options you pick for these next set of questions again keep your toes just a little bit first that a question is this loyal team or respect stay with us we'll be right back are you ready to master the art of creating content that converts hey I'm here I'm I'm a mom of two who went from being a burnt out ambo to six figure content creator in less than leo or navigating a late ADHD diagnosis and I'm Kristen also I'm I'm of two and a form of corporate branding queen to an entrepreneur my dyslexic brain sees marketing very differently and that's my superpower and together we're showing women like you how to master video marketing and create content that generates income whether you're just starting out or ready to scale we are breaking

28:17down everything from landing brand deals to building your own empire welcome to I am that content creator podcast where we turn scroll stopping content into series income those filters no plot just real strategies from two neurodivergent moms who get it so let's turn your phone into a video marketing chain and let's go wow while we're really throwing some curveball just a little bit Caitlyn keep you on your toes a little bit I'm gonna say respect I'm gonna say respect because that's so core to why I started my business it's just okay that's right in alignment on why we started your journeys I just it got to a point where I mean my husband was like hearing me cry my desk he's like what in the hell are you doing why are you letting people treat you like this you need to demand respect and I was like you're right I just forgot like when you're in the corporate space sometimes you feel like just such a cog in the wheel and

29:20and so I'm gonna lock it on respect it's that's something that I really value I love it I love it would you rather live in space or live in the ocean Caitlyn I just literally just talking about this the other day with one of my girlfriends because I'm terrified of both there's a space section by the time this air is the space that's launched might have already happened but she's super into astronauts right now and I was like I can't be in a tin can in space but I also can't be in a tin can in the ocean so if I have to pick I'm gonna say space I'd rather tackle the unknown then we know that there's some stuff down there like we know that there's some giant squids and stuff down in the ocean I'm not trying to 20,000 leads under the sea you know got you got you'd rather be famous in poor or anonymous and rich anonymous and rich would you rather have unlimited free meals Caitlyn or unlimited first class

30:20tickets for traveling unlimited first class for travel oh my gosh once you once you try it going back to economy is the hardest transition in your life that's really good to know as a matter of fact would you rather sing or dance to every song Caitlyn dance okay I'm gonna picture I'm gonna throw hypothetical situation at you picture yourself Caitlyn trapped on an island nowhere to go you have the option to listen to five of your favorite music artists of all time with their whole catalog and music doesn't matter what the genre is who are those five music artists lady Gaga okay oh gosh I'm gonna throw in some Kesha because I feel like that's a wide catalog to pick from okay okay oh wow I was not expecting these hard questions honestly I saw the backstreet boys

31:30last summer I'm gonna throw in the backstreet boys okay my island adventure is going to be very pop heavy I'm gonna be by myself Jimmy I think to mix it up I need to like have something to ground the pop I really like a little big town a little country to throw in there okay I got a Texas um and then their whole catalog I think Taylor Swift I know that I know that those are such basic answers and I fully own and recognize that my Spotify is basically like you're a pop princess honestly Caitlyn I've heard more basic music lists than that so again there's no judgment we all have our pace and perspectives and music whatever makes us feel good I'm all for that's the way I see it at the end of the day um what is your favorite go-to meal Caitlyn go-to meal lately especially if I'm

32:36in a hurry with lunch frozen real good chicken tenders which are the ones that are like higher protein I'm sure you have sure those are from across your plate um and then instant ramen and you mit some together so you get a little like chicken protein ramen it has honestly been a hyper fixation meal for me for the last like three or four months got you got you you did just touch on this earlier you do love the travel um where's your favorite place Caitlyn that you like you've traveled thus far where's the place you would like to travel that you've never been before oh that I've never been before I've heard really really good things about um Greenland lots of like thermal spa kind of things you get to possibly see like northern lights at a certain point um apparently road tripping is quite beautiful out there so yeah I think um that would probably be the place I want to go all right and where's your favorite place that you've traveled thus far Caitlyn

33:41Japan Tokyo oh that's a that's a bucket list item for me too I believe it my dad actually worked with Tokyo when he was went to university of Houston and they had to play like a football game there or something like that and he told me the experiences so beautiful the words like it's always stuck with me still to this day that's a bucket list item for me is to go to Tokyo Japan it's just something about the Japanese culture I feel like that's so respectful and so honorable the words like I feel like a part of my spirit and soul belongs within that culture I don't know what it is but I will be in Tokyo Japan I will make that happen one day at the right moment in time for sure um whenever you're not doing all the stuff that you're doing on a regular basis Caitlyn as far as like which are business and marketing and all those things what are some of your favorite hobbies that you like to do that many people may not know you like to do in the winter I am snowboarding

34:45here in the bay area we're very close to Tahoe so I head to Tahoe a lot and go snowboarding okay here in the city in San Francisco a lot people probably don't know I really like EDM music so I go to a lot of shows I go and I dance talk about a good cardio workout I go and I dance for like four or five hour shows and it's super fun I love that I love that I could see that I could definitely see that last question and I have for you Caitlyn as we wrap everything up and this is usually the question I ask everyone if you have the opportunity to go back in time and talk to yourself 10 years ago Caitlyn what would you tell yourself in that particular moment and based on your current journey everything that's going on with six-door marketing where do you see that in the next 10 years if I could go back in time I think I would tell at that point 24-year-old Caitlyn you're gonna get kicked down a lot you're gonna have people tell you know you can't do this a lot

35:47don't even remotely listen to them keep doing what you're doing it's gonna lead you down the right path um and then I think where do I see the door marketing in 10 years yes the overall journey yes I have some really good goals for myself I this year in particular I want to get to a size where I can hire another marker and that way I can take on even more work so in 10 years I see myself having a full team and maybe at some point even further down the road it doesn't become zid door marketing anymore I phase out and I empower the next wave of marketers to take over but I I see myself forming a team and I see myself helping a great deal of small business owners and making sure that they survive in quite frankly cultures that are trying to like phase them out I I always want to support small businesses whenever I can and there you have it for those listening to this particular episode of the hfwb podcast theories on what hands on guidance and

36:53partnerships for all of your marketing needs is truly all about and of course allowing you and your team to focus on what you do best that's pretty much been the gist of this whole entire conversation Caitlin I thank you so much for taking time out of your day just to paint the picture of your passion of supporting small business excuse me and their everyday marketing goals where can people contact you reach out to you for your services and how and how and of course what what do you have planned next yeah everyone can reach out to me on LinkedIn Caitlin Zid Thor I believe it's spelled right here also www zidthormarketing.com would be the best way to check out my services set up a coffee chat with me even if you're not in the market right now for a marketing partner I just love meeting other business owners would love to connect and see where you're taking your businesses to and and where I could possibly help I love that I

37:54love that and definitely reach out to Caitlin again she's very passionate about supporting small businesses and their everyday marketing goals and their passion I may have to take you up on that offer myself please Caitlin what that without we'll definitely talk about that time goes on but besides that Caitlin I do thank you for just making time out of your productive schedule to simply bless us when an appearance on the hfw podcast series it was definitely empowering up lifting and inspiring like always for sure thank you Cliffton I really appreciate you having me on this is actually my second podcast appearance ever so thank you for making it just so seamless and welcoming I appreciate it I'm grateful to hear that and that alone just makes my day within itself Caitlin I thank you for your time once again Miss Caitlin Zick Thor zick Thor marketing courtesy of the hfwb podcast series this is your host clicks and hope of the hfwb podcast series

38:55and I encourage you to stay healthy wealthy and blessed and until next time peace love and positive