The Gender Pay Gap Is Closing, But There’s One Glaring Problem

0:00You're listening too, I'm on the media podcast. How would you feel if you found out the guy sitting next to you doing the same job was taking home thousands more a year and your company already knew? Well, you can actually check. The latest gender pay gap data has landed, laying out in black and white which employees are closing the gap and which ones are still dragging their feet. It's the quickie for Tuesday March 3. I'm Taylor Strano for a look at the latest news headlines. Here's Clem Irfy. Thanks, Taylor. The US-Israeli War against Iran has expanded with Israel also launching strikes against Lebanon with the latest on the ground in Tel Aviv. Seven News 2 reporter Chris Reason Chris, what's it like on the ground in Tel Aviv today? Oh, look, it's always tense. The last three days have been extraordinary to be here and witnessing something that really is a moment in modern history, but at the same time it can be dangerous and it can be difficult,

1:01but at the same time fascinating, it's been extraordinary. Where we are is in Tel Aviv and we've been basing ourselves at the capital of Israel and in a hotel on the seventh floor with a balcony view of what is quite an exceptional fireworks is by most nights and it's as terrifying as it is captivating, but you see this system that the Israelis have got to be time and Iranian ballistic missile comes in. The Israeli air defense missiles go up to take them down and you see this sort of an aerial ballistic ballet go on as the two missiles sort of chase each other and when they do connect and explode in the sky, it's just extraordinary. Well, Chris, I understand that fighting has expanded overnight with Lebanon retaliating for the death of Ayatollah, him any in Iran. Israel is now fighting a war on several fronts because they have launched attacks against Hezbollah now as well, is that correct? Yeah, that's right. And it was interesting to watch that because Hezbollah based in southern Lebanon

2:05decided pre-dawn today to launch its attacks and as you say it put out a statement saying why it said it was doing it in revenge for the death of Ayatollah Ali Humane. And those attacks were quite simplistic, quite crude. They were small rockets, not much damage, no one killed, no one injured. But Israel's retaliation was swift and brutal and is continuing tonight. We have seen Israeli jets scramble into southern Lebanon and pound targets there and all the way up to Beirut, the capital of Lebanon. At one point, the Israelis issued warnings to residents to get out of their homes and we saw pictures of thousands and thousands of people in their cars, some on foot walking north trying to get to safer areas. Those activities have been continuing through the day from the Israelis. The night the sky outline of Lebanon is full of plumes of smoke as they've taken out various targets and they have claimed that they've already killed one of the Hezbollah leaders.

3:06But among the toll at the moment there, 31 people killed and over 100 injured. So that front of the war continues on. Now Chris, you said that it's been quite incredible to watch this unfold with the amount of fire back and forth over these borders. But Trump has been speaking at the White House overnight saying that there is an even bigger wave of US-Israeli attacks on Iran coming soon. How big can this get? And that's a really good question of what more can the Americans throw into this conflict? It's quite extraordinary to just look at the resources, the military resources. They have piled up into this region. All of them basically focused around two aircraft carrier battle groups, one in the Mediterranean, the other in the Persian Gulf. The Persian Gulf based one, the Abraham Lincoln, is essentially there to drive the attacks onto Iran. The one in the Mediterranean, the Gerald R. Ford is basically there to provide a lot of cover,

4:12and umbrella kind of cover situations for the entire Israeli part of this war. So these ships are bristling not only with planes, as you expect their aircraft carriers to beat them and have forward project their power, but they also have destroyers that travel along with them. And they're full of these air defense systems, Asia systems, particularly that can shoot down missiles that are coming in from Iran. So what this is, it's almost a war of attrition. The Americans and Israelis are pounding targets over in Iran. The Iranians are throwing whatever resources they have in terms of ballistic missiles, rockets, and drones back at Israel and in US bases and civilian targets as well across the region. It's missile for missile, and it's going to be fascinating to see how supplies are exhausted. And military experts are saying this can't go at this tempo for too much longer, and they're talking in terms of days, not weeks. So it's going to be fascinating to see how this

5:12plays out. There is some nervousness amongst allies of the United States that they will be drawn into this war. What is the likelihood looking that say Australia and other allies like the UK will actually be called upon to contribute to this? Yeah, it's a really interesting question. And at this stage, they haven't, and they're determined to go alone, and Trump says he will push through this until it is done. And we had Pete Hexeth, the Secretary of War today, as well, say that we didn't start this. The Iranians did, but we will finish this, he said. So it didn't define what finish it meant, but they've already managed to topple the Itala. They've already managed to topple some 48 members of the leadership of the Iranian regime. Greta's a finish. And I mentioned there about the, you know, the munitions started to diminish. Will that be the point when they turn to allies, such as potentially Australia, such as the EU, UK, and say we need help here? Now, that'll be a huge question for any country to take part in

6:14that. So far, many countries lined up to say they tend to be support Donald Trump's operation epic fury, but they haven't committed resources. And that is a, it'll be a furious contention point for a lot of countries about whether or not they do. The English have been tying themselves in knots over the last couple of days about whether they should allow the Americans to use their air bases, because Sir Keir Starmer being a lawyer of international law knows what this is all about and knows that it hasn't got legal backing, this conflict. And for many days, he held out. He capitulated that the U-turn today, and has now said the Americans can use their bases, but that is about as far as the support has gone. And let me just say, too, I mean, we've seen this war start between Israel, America, and Iran, but it's very quickly, thanks to the Iranians response, become regional. And we've seen some six, seven countries around the Gulf States get hit and take part now. Today, we had a Katari jet shoot down to the Iranian jets over Katari air

7:18space, which is just extraordinary. We also had drones flying over Cyprus in the last 24 hours. That technically Cyprus is Europe. So this war has in, for all intents and purposes, now reached Europe's doorstep, and it hasn't stopped. Chris, just finally, in amongst the military action, is there any room for diplomacy left? I know that yesterday, Donald Trump was saying that the new leadership in Iran were willing to talk, but we saw a post on X from Ali Lajani, a powerful adviser of Hamine that said Iran would not negotiate with Trump, and that the US president had delusional ambitions. Where do we stand on any kind of diplomatic resolution here? I can't see from this viewpoint at the moment that there would be any chance of a diplomatic solution to this. I know that the Israelis don't want it, that they want to keep going, and they want to absolutely obliterate the power structures inside Iran, and particularly the nuclear program, and the ballistic missile program as well,

8:20more importantly for a lot of Israelis. They're not so worried about the nuclear potential, but the ballistic missiles, which can do serious damage and have done serious damage to this country. So they're pushing and pushing for this to continue on. The Americans, it's a question mark. We all know the Mercurial Donald Trump, does he have the attention span to keep this going? Will he get bored? He said specifically today that he's not the type of guy that does get bored over these things, but will something else come along and get distracted? And he'll decide to move his resources and attention to that. He could simply say, we've done the job. We've taken out most of the Iranian leadership. We've taken out the IOTOVA over to you. Iran, people rise up. We've done the hard work, your turn, and then we draw all those logistical military support structures, and all of the aircraft carriers and submarines and the planes, and go on somewhere else, whether it's Greenland, or whether it's Venezuela, or some other distracting moment. And then where we left, we've got an Iran with a power vacuum, an Iran with an uncertain future, relationships here

9:26across this region completely fractured now, potential for human humanitarian catastrophe, with people wanting to leave Iran. It really is an open book now. Donald Trump has really opened the can of worms, and I don't think there's anyone in the planet right now who can tell where this is going to go. The federal government's travel advice service smart traveler has told Australians stuck overseas due to the U.S. Israel operation in Iran to sign up to a registration portal to receive updates. U.S. President Donald Trump claimed yesterday that the war in Iran would take four weeks or so, leaving those who are traveling via the Middle East and who are now stuck in cities like Dubai, where Iranian missiles have targeted the airport itself, uncertain as to when they'll be allowed to return home. Defense Minister Richard Miles yesterday said airspace across the Middle East is now currently blacked out, and so there's no air travel at all, saying he expects commercial flights would come online first when travel started to reopen. All Australian citizens, permanent residents, and their immediate families in Israel, Iran, Qatar,

10:29and UAE, are being asked to register to receive the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Updates at crisis.dfat.gov.au. There are also numbers you can call which we'll put in the show notes. One nation leader Pauline Hanson has been censured by the Senate following inflammatory remarks against Muslims. The Queensland Senator came under fire claiming in an interview there were no good Muslims, which was roundly condemned by Labor and Liberal MPs, as well as the Islamic community. The sentient motion passed 36-17, with Labor backing it as well as the Greens. Foreign Minister Penny Wong moved the motion against Senator Hanson, saying the comments distressed not just Islamic Australians but all Australians. A sentient motion is a formal motion of disapproval of an MP or Senator for their actions, but doesn't come with a punishment or suspension from the Chamber. Senator Hanson dismissed the motion as a political attack following one nation's rise in the polls, calling it a stunt, saying the fact is, in your gut, you can't stand the fact that one nation

11:29is now on 27% and 28%. The latest news poll revealed Senator Hanson's party had the second highest primary vote and was now in front of the coalition. A young freshwater crocodile spotted hanging out in a creek behind a bunnings in Newcastle has been rescued and relocated. The manager at the local Australian Reptile Park was caught in to remove the animal from its unusual choice of location on Saturday afternoon, but repeated efforts to grab the mid-long croc from the creekside pond failed, leading Billy Cullet and his team to return on Sunday night. The team was on the verge of arriving in the Hunter wetlands three kilometers downstream, when looking back up the river, they spotted the crocs' eyesight in their spotlight. One of the team then swan dove into the water to capture it. Currently, in quarantine at the central coast park, she will remain under staff care while authorities investigate how she ended up in New South Wales' second largest city far away from the tropics.

12:50Covering nearly 5.9 million workers. For the first time, commonwealth public sector employees are included alongside the private sector, so you can now look up how your department, your favourite brand, or your future boss is tracking on gender equality. The headline is this, the gap is moving in the right direction, yes, but the gap itself is still very much there. Half of private sector employers now have an average total renumeration gender pay gap below 11.2%. That midpoint has come down 0.9% points in a year, and just over 54% of employers have actually reduced their gap since last year. The midpoint of median pay gaps has also dropped from 8.9% to 8%, which means women are closing a little more of the distance on their male colleagues. But when you dig into who's earning what, the picture is still pretty familiar. Across all these employers, women and men make up roughly half the workforce each, yet men are 1.8 times more likely to be in the top paying quarters of jobs, while women are 1.4 times more

13:57likely to be stuck in the lowest paid quarter. National average total pay in that top quarter is about $221,000 a year compared to just over 60 grand in the bottom quarter, so stacking men at the top and women at the bottom builds a massive gap, even before you touch base salaries. Industries matter too. So, male dominated sectors like financial services, construction, mining and electricity all have typical employer gaps well above the national benchmark. In finance alone, about 85% of employers have a gender pay gap above 11.2%. Meanwhile, women dominated fields like health education and community services have smaller gaps. But often lower overall pay. Then there's the quiet killer, bonuses and other extras. When we strip out super and look at only discretionary pay, performance bonuses, allowances, over time, the midpoint gender pay gap blows out to 29.7%. In other words, men are getting at least

15:0030% more than women in those add-ons, even when base salaries look closer. That's about how managers reward potential, who can stay back late, who gets put up for bonuses, and the report says only around a quarter of employers who did a pay gap analysis, then went back to see if their performance systems were stacking the deck. The flip side is that transparency is starting to change behaviour, which he says 68% of employers now run some kind of gender pay gap analysis, but only a quarter of those do a truly comprehensive one that looks at promotions, hiring, resignations, leave and pay quarter leagues together. And this is where policy starts to bite. From 2026, large employers with more than 500 staff will be legally required to set and meet gender equality targets, or show they've improved over three years. Now, the government is banking on that, along with the publicly available data explorer to push companies to take flexible work, pay parental leave,

16:02safe workplaces and fair promotion processes, seriously, not just as nice to have perks. So the gap is closing in some areas, blowing out in others. But how do we fix it? I took myself down to Canberra to get some answers from the Minister for Finance and Women Katie Gellahoe. I started by asking what her initial take was when she received the latest report. Initially, I guess, positive, because it is all moving in the right direction, but there's an element of frustration too. I have to be honest that we're not moving faster than we would have hoped. So the gender pay gap is continuing to trend down, but in many industries, it's still enormous. And for areas and jobs where you get paid bonuses, that seems to now be the area we need to focus on. So it's not your sort of base rate. It's all the things that you get on top of that. Still a lot of work to do. When you say there are some typical industries where we're

17:02more likely to see that gap, what are they? So it's areas like finance and other traditionally male areas. Finance certainly stands out, but areas like construction, engineering, all of those kind of traditionally male areas continue to have a gender pay gap that's much larger than we would like. Whose responsibility is it been to close the gap? Well, I think primarily the employer, this is our third report. So we've been watching it now for a couple of years, and there's no doubt that shining a light, having some transparency about what's happening in individual employers is helping, because we're seeing that more employers are doing gender analysis about what's going on, and we are seeing improvements gradually in some areas. So it's primarily the employer, it's up to them, but it's also there's a broader responsibility about trying to shift the gender segregated nature of our labour market. So it's so segregated here based on gender, much more so

18:04than many other countries. And that's something that you know, it's I feel it's the government's responsibility, because it comes down to training and also access to skills, but it's also access to choices. And we know that girls at primary school are making decisions about the jobs they don't think are right for them, and we've got a kind of deal with that as well. What does that reasonably and feasibly look like from a government standpoint? Is that policy intervention? Whereabouts do track that? Yes, so a couple of things. Well, one's about attitudes about what job is for women and what job is for men or boys and girls, and they're making those choices in primary school. So how we intervene there, but also how we make sure that training opportunities, whether it be through apprenticeships or other TAFE programs, are encouraging women into these jobs that have traditionally women have thought as off limits for them. And part of that is about making sure the culture in those workplaces are right, because for many women, they'll have a look at something

19:08and think, well, that's not for me, because either the culture is wrong or the infrastructure isn't there. It hasn't been that long since women's toilets went on construction sites. Obviously, that's a fundamental need if you're going to get more women into those jobs. So I think with all of these issues where you see structural inequality, you're going to have to come at it from a number of different ways. Yeah, I think the cultural aspect is a really big one, but there are always going to be people who say, well, women don't want to be sparkies and briquies and men don't want to be nurses or in those caregiving roles and careers. Why is it important then that we do change that conversation? Who benefits when we do things like close the pay gap? Well, we know all the data is in where you have a gender equal organisation, whether it's at that bed, your board level or three your employees, that you perform better. It brings a range of skills and capabilities to the table that you don't have if you don't have a good balance between men and women.

20:10I mean, for us in government, we watch all of these things carefully. All we're about is making sure people have the choices available to them. And we've seen, for example, in aged care, where people say, well, and that is predominantly women. And in fact, it has got worse over the last five years. The minute that the pay increase came in, where aged care workers were given a 25% pay increase, we've seen much more men into that industry. And so you can see good pay, good facilities, good infrastructure that meets the needs of men and women in the workplace. People will make the choice. So you mentioned before that some of these bonuses are hitting contributing factors to the pay gap. We know that super is one of those things that's been well-known for a long time. But when it comes to things like bonuses over time, the gap does blow out to nearly 30%. Why is that? And how do you actually fix it? Good pick up there in the report, because that's the thing that jumped out to me. Like when we see the gender pay gap coming down, more

21:14employers are in the zone that we want them to be. More employers are doing that gender analysis. The reports to boards are working. So all of the things we put in place are working. And then this kind of hits you in the face. And we think there's something going on there. We'll need to do some more work on it to understand it. But where there are bonuses being paid or payments outside standard remuneration, that's clearly an area where men are doing a lot better. And it may be that they are more prevalent in those industries which are male dominated. I'm sure that is part of the reason, but that doesn't excuse it. This is why we ban pay secrecy clauses and things like that. Because we know from all the data that where you have these kind of secret arrangements or arrangements that don't link to the award or the EBA, they're kind of over and above that that men tend to do a lot better than women. And so it's a lazy argument then to say that well, women don't want to put themselves up for promotion. Women don't feel like they should put themselves forward and go for those bigger paying jobs, right? Yeah, I think that's got nothing to do

22:17with it. I would think in those industries, particularly in finance and banking, where there are a lot of these kind of arrangements that it's linked to the level of men, often in more senior jobs and in those highly segregated workplaces. So this is the third pay gap report that will be published. What's the response like from employers? Because everyone likes to think they're doing the right thing. But then when you put it on paper, that's not always the story that's told. I mean, this has been really instructive to me. I knew it would change things. I didn't think it would be, well, get as much scrutiny as it has. And I certainly deal with a lot of employers, be employers. And I know that this has changed the way they think about these things. Because how can you not? When everything else has taken away and your name on your companies there and your gender pay gaps reported, there isn't really anywhere to hide. And so I think it has changed the way that senior management think about these things. We're seeing that in the data, heading the right way. But there is a lot more. I think we need to do. And we just want to

23:22see more progress than 1% a year. I think it's important that I say right now I checked what my mum is. Gender pay gap is we're doing very healthy. You are. You are. That's fine. I have something to do with the 80% women employees that we have. Last one for you, Katie, the government says that large employers, with over 500 staff, will now need to meet gender equality targets. What could that actually look like in realistic terms? Well, there's a fair bit of flexibility for employers in that category. So we are focusing on large employers. But based on whatever's happening in their workplace, reasonable and responsible targets to address the problems they have or the areas where inequality exists, they are required to report to boards and have that discussion now. So this sort of takes the next step. We don't want to see coasting. Like, oh, yeah, well, we sit just outside or just on the wrong side or the right side. And so that's enough. We want a lot of proactive energy coming into this from senior management. So that'll have flexibility to determine a target that's right for them. But we want to see

24:25effort made to shift the dial and to work towards meeting those targets. Some people have said, oh, well, there's no punishment if they don't meet the targets. But the idea is that, you know, it's a bit carrot and stick. Come on, work with us. We're publishing this data. So that's the transparency frame. But now take your data and actually do something with it and try and make a difference because it actually, it's good for business. It's good for organisation. So I'm hopeful that we will see people leaning in, employers leaning in on that side. Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with us today. If you want to have a look at the wage gap data explorer, I'm going to pop a link in the show notes. So you can go and look up your own workplace. The Quikki is produced by me, Table Astrono, Georgie Page and Clem Effie, with audio production by Lou Hill. Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and

25:25waters that this podcast is recorded on.