The Fellow Heirs Boys Stop By! [Dead Men Walking Podcast]

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2:05to coffee. We're talking with Nick and Isaac. Fellow airs, stick around. I didn't get my water. It's okay for someone to come. Yeah. It's groovy. There you go. It'll fade out eventually. You recorded this yourself. DeadManWalking. No. This clearly pseudo AI. Well, everyone, welcome back to another episode of DeadManWalking Podcast. I have your host, Greg Moore. And you can find a more about us at dmwpodcast.com. Go check out the merch cave. Keep the pirate ship afloat. That's how we do things here. We'll never be behind a paywall. But go get yourself one of these Wyneham, Dyneham, Romans, Nineham Mugs. Or one of my favorite T-shirts that are selling on there right now. My favorite Bible verse. Job 13.5. How about you just shut up and let that be your wisdom. Sometimes you have to quote scripture to the pagans, even if they don't like it. So if you're watching right now, you're going, well, who are these two gentlemen in studio with, Greg?

3:07If you're listening, there's two and in studio with me. And we don't usually have a whole lot of people in studio. I think maybe once or twice a year. But we're going to get right into it after I think devolved Bible rebinding. Love these guys. They rebind Bibles. All leather. Goat skin. Raw Hyde. You probably heard it on the pre-roll. What they do. But go check them out. Just click in the link below. Support our sponsors. Because that's how we bring you content. Go to conferences, travel around the country. The generous sponsors. And man, their Bibles are great. If you want to heirloom, you want the last a long time. Make sure you go to devolve. God wills it. All right. Now they've got the business out of the way. We got Isaac. We got Nick. What's going on? Happy to be here. Yeah. It was that intros always formalizes everything. Like we're kind of joking around and talking before. And then you play the intro. And then I talk and then it's like. Lock in. Yeah. We don't have to lock in. But let's keep it loose here. But.

4:07Just for everyone listening, I was on. I go to church with both these brothers. Yeah. At Christ the Word and Sylvania. Ohio. And. I was on fellow airs. The podcast that you do. Not only for the church, but for. Everyone listening around the world. They've got. They've got a big following in Hong Kong. We have to do that out. It's called fellow airs. So if you are listening to this podcast, pause it right now. Go follow them on Spotify, Apple, Google, wherever you get your. Your podcast. Go follow fellow airs. Make sure you do auto download. So it comes right into your phone. You can listen to it as soon as it comes out. They have some phenomenal episodes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's some phenomenal episodes. You just did one on gambling. I might want to talk about that. Yes. But they had me on a couple of weeks ago, and we talked for about an hour and a half. And it was very informative. But now I'm returning the favor because they were so gracious to me. I wanted to have these two young brothers in the Lord on and. Talk about fellow airs. Talk about their testimony. And all that good stuff. And I got to tell you my testimony, episodes are usually I get the most messages on that.

5:13Wow. I thought, because I had Craig Twining on, he gave a testimony, and I mean like random people, not just because we go to church with Craig as well, but like, you know, people from like Oklahoma. Oh, man, I love testimony. I went, man, I should just have a podcast where people just come on and tell the awesome things God's done for, and testimony, you know? But let's get into it, man. I want to know a little bit more about each of you, and so the listeners will know a little bit more about you guys, who wants to start? Who wants to give me their rundown of their testimony? Isaac. Well, Nick, as I sit here across the table from you for the first time ever, I have some different things going through my head, because Nick and I co-host fellow airs, and usually we sit right by each other. Right. In fact, sometimes we're wrestling over the same mic, and that's not fun, but Greg has a set up here. I will also say that you just gave us the best plug I've ever heard, because I guess we're just a couple of illiterate dummies, and we don't know how to promote our own show. So, it's amazing we even have a show. I don't know about that. I don't know if you're illiterate dummies. I mean, you're not, you're literate.

6:16Well, we're in our 20s, so we're in our 20s. Give or take, but I'm 29, but I still say you are right there on the edge, Nick. Right on the edge. But yes, my name is Isaac, and again, I go with, I go to church with Greg and Nick, and I am in sales by occupation. I'm married with two kids. I'm 23 years old, and yeah, I just got into podcasting in October. Nick's been running the show for a little longer than I have two years. I'm just calling up my notes, because I want to make sure I have my facts straight, but yeah. Yeah, what? Two years, I think. Wait, so how long have you been doing it? How long have you been doing it? Well, I started, yeah, I think two or three years, because this is a season three. This is a season three, but you started at not at the start of a year. Yeah, that's true. So I guess it's about years, two and a half years. So, yeah, Nick, how did you come up with the idea for the show? We just started both interviewing him. Yeah, Nick, I'm the hot seat. Yeah. Well, what's up with that name, man? Yeah, the name is scriptural. There's a couple passages in it that helped me come up with the name, but to just first talk about how it started was

7:19we were the church that we go to Christ the Word has a great woman's podcast called Unshaken, and they were doing well, and it's very beneficial to the women who go to Christ the Word, but my whole idea was like, let's start a podcast for men. And really, we just did it. Like, yeah, I had to do it. I had no idea what I was doing, but it was me. And at the time, it was a couple of other guys from church. One of them was my brother, and I said, we're doing this. We got into it. And I think I remember you talking to me about like, I'm thinking of doing it. I probably could have been scamping, tripper, something. Yeah. And that was quite a while ago. That's three years ago. It was, yeah, it was, and it was a crazy start because when we first started, we did not, we didn't ask for any, like, we did it through the church, but we'd never asked for any permission to do it. So we just did it. And I started recording episodes and getting like, you know, accounts made online. And then church leadership finds out, and I'm like

8:21stamping Christ the Word name on the show. And I'm saying like, yeah, this is from Christ the Word. And they're like, okay, we had no deal. This is happening. And hey, so it was shut down after I only recorded like three episodes. So they shut it down. But better to ask for forgiveness. Forget it was because, yeah, it worked out. But it did work out. Pastor Jake Long, who is like pretty much our go-to guide. He's our boss. He's our boss, really. But he was the guy who shut me down. But then said, we're going to do this the right way and through the right channels. And once that was established, and he really came, like, pushed me to just be diligent with it and do it in the right way. Get a plan. Plan things out. I was not doing that. Sure. Plan things out. Be regimented. Consistent. Yeah, consistent. Yeah. Once you push that, you're one went. Yeah. So, so you were original. And then you had a different co-host, right?

9:21Yeah, it was. You were seeing a Reese. It was my brother. So I first chose my brother, Sam, and Noah Wing, those two guys. I think you've had Noah on before. Yeah. Talk about books. So he was there. But they both stepped away. Once I officially started the podcast, they just had a lot going on. They said, actually, we can't do this right now. And so I brought my other brother on a brother-in-law, Reese. He did it with me for a year, but he also he started going to college. Sensing a pattern here, Isaac. He's ran through three co-hosts in three years. Isaac, how long were you last, Isaac? Nick's a hard guy to work for with. I don't know. Right. No, they're all his brothers, so I'm hopefully cut off a different cloth. I don't know. Yeah. Well, yeah, talk about how did you come on? Yeah. Oh, well, you had a public job application posted. No. Did you really? No. In one of those episodes, Reese said, I'm going to be terminating my contract here by choice. At the end of the year, and Nick said, hey, we're taking applications. I don't think anyone else came to you. Well, I actually had a couple of people, but it ended up like speaking to them and

10:26just kind of like hashing things out. It just didn't work out. And you were the, Isaac was the first guy to come to me. Okay. And I'm not exaggerating when I say that the energy and the drive that he brings to the show, we really, I think, like perfectly match in that way. Reese, my brother-in-law was perfect for the time being, like, but he brought a lot of like rigidity that I needed because I'm a lot more of like just a relaxed guy. I'm like, yeah, it'll be fine. And Reese is different in ways that were very good for the show. But yeah, like I said, he had to leave. And then when Isaac came on, I think, hopefully, this is permanent, right? I hope so. This is my 10-year plan. Yeah, so Isaac and I were talking about that over dinner. You were, you came a little bit later and we were talking about how it's like, it's very important to have just in a podcast too when you have two co-hosts to have that relationship to kind of be able to flow with one another. Yes. And frankly, how, and I don't know what you think about this thing, but I was telling him like,

11:27if it's just me, if it's just one host, usually I'm like, if it's a podcast, 30, 45 minutes, one person, I'm good. But when you have two, it gives it like back and forth. You can extend the episodes a little bit longer. I think listeners kind of like that. They get to grow with both of you, get to know each of you, then hear your guests each week. Or if you don't have a guest here, both of you talk. I love the idea of two on a podcast. And I think you two work really well together on fellow errors. And I think it's, I think it's a real benefit of our church. Yeah, I have them. And I love that you just went out there and didn't ask anyone because that's the same thing I would have done. And I've done, I've done things like that in the past. And they're like, yeah, you can't just go. I just like the visual of you just like stamping Christ. So we're not. Yeah, logo is sponsored and they approved of it. And I got the approval. Your heart was in the right place. Right. And I like thinking of the first night of Jake just laying in bed going, oh, guys, you made a podcast. I got to talk to the elders tomorrow. Yeah. But I honestly, I really do praise God for that happening. It's a great example in my mind.

12:33I hope others listening will take this lesson that when you submit to leadership and authority in that way, you know, that's a reason that you Bruce 13, right? Obey your leaders and submit to them. This is for your benefit, right? That's what it says. And that that time was for my benefit. I look back and I think the show that we have now that that you get a lot of feedback from people within the church who say, like, thank you so much for doing this. That was really helpful. I really loved getting to know this person. That was a really good conversation. That was like, it would not be that way today. If I had if Jake coming and squashing my original show hadn't happened. It's true. And it's been like that every step of the way. I should also say because almost on a weekly basis, we get pushed in a certain direction by an elder and we look back and we're like, wow, that was the right direction to be pushed. Exactly. We wouldn't have come to that decision on our own and lie that it happened. Right. It's yeah, it's kind of, well, let me tell you some, it's for someone who likes to kind of do his own thing and in life, it can be freeing and nice.

13:37It also can bring you a lot of hardships in your life and a lot of uncertainty. Sometimes it is nice to have elders, mentors, other people in your sphere of kind of leaning on them to guide you a little bit too. I used to, in my 20s or on your guy's age, I used to think that was like a weakness. Like, no, I can do it myself. And then you realize, oh, no, that's just pride and stupid. Right. Like I'm going to do this like, you know, Proverbs talks about a wise king has a plethora, a whole bunch of counselors, right? Like I want to have five, eight, ten people around me that are that are wise and love the Lord and trying to push me in the right direction. And like you're saying, even if an elder or someone at the church gives you an idea for a subject to him, we focus on this. What a blessing. You're not sitting there racking your brains. And like I said, the gambling won. How timely. I was just talking, you know, my son is 11. He likes sports, play sports. I had that about that. Did you, did you, did you, I want to hear the rest of your point, but the stat one of the stats, say the stat. Yeah, one of the stats we mentioned in the episode was, I haven't listened to it yet. So I'm not, oh, I want to hear the rest of your point.

14:37I'm sorry to cut you off, but the one point that this is the biggest thing that drove me to say we need to talk about this on the podcast was 33 or one third. So like 33% of 11 year old boys in America have gambled within the past year. And Greg, I thought that was BS and I looked it up and I fact checked everything and it's legit. Okay. So this is my story just two weeks ago, where I mean, it's all everywhere. We go to check scores on my phone. Oh, there's the money line. There's the odds. Every single commercial on a regular TV streaming Amazon, wherever we watch it, three of the five commercials are gambling. So we have to talk about, he goes, what is this? And so I'm explaining it. He's going, and now he's at an age to where he can even relate, like, who's the favorite based on what the payout is? And I'm going, oh my, like that used to be, like, when I was a kid, degenerates knew what the money line were. Like, if you knew what the money line was on a sports game, it's like, oh, well, that's your uncle. He's a drunk and a degenerate and he gambles. That's why he knows that. Now you've got 11 year olds associating it with that. Yeah. And in society, it's just totally acceptable. And everyone gambles gamble on everything,

15:42right? And I just went, when I heard you guys did that, I went, how timely is that? Like, that is, one, I'm going to listen to it for me personally, but two, it is like an epidemic to where many Christians believe it's like a harmless thing. It's like, throw 20 bucks at it. They treat it almost like a scratch off a lot. I know a few Christians. I'd be like, look, and I'm not addicted to it. But the mega millions up to a billion, I'll buy a $5 ticket. Or you know, you kind of, look at it like that. But it is so easy to get sucked into because the underlying sin behind it, the love of money or the, or the, even just the love of the thrill, the emotional chase of, oh, yeah. The high of, yes. Yes. Yes. We talked about that. Okay. Did you? Yeah. Jacob Bartlett, who is, is soon to be ordained. He's gone through our church's reformed evangelical pastors college. And he's working for the church now. He leads ministries. He leads the college age ministry. We have called new life at Christ's word. Anyway, we had him to come on to talk about gambling. And he had done some, you know, some good research into it. But he is also knowledge wanted. And he

16:43just, he talked about like the three, kind of the three prongs of the, of the why it's something that we desire as men. And one of them's greed. One of them's our pride. Any other one is really, it's just fun. It's just like, it's an enjoyable thing to do. It's good. And so, but yeah, we, we, he did a great job discussing the dangers of, of just, you know, tasting that thing or, or giving it like, oh, it's only, they're going to give me like $200 and bonus bets. Like, they advertise that. It's just, it's just, it's just madness. And they're not giving away anything. Right. Exactly. They actually wear in the metrics. They know exactly how much money they're going to make. Yeah. They give you $200. And it's all gamified. And you feel like it's like this fun little phone game you're playing, but you're actually suffering real life consequences. And it's funny. You bring up the word to generate because we talked about that. Yeah, we talked about that too. That's one of the craziest signs that this has become an epidemic is people proudly claim to be degenerates now. It's become a positive thing. Yeah. I'll be it. I remember going to college with guys are interning at school with guys and they would be like, oh, you know, I'm a degenerate gambler. I

17:46lost those much. And they're saying it as a joke and they're saying it because it's funny and they're saying it because they want to fit in because everyone claims to be a degenerate now. And it's just like, wow, it's so normalized that it's just become this huge problem. And yeah, well, yeah, well, also you have to like look at it in practical terms too. Like so our life, our money, our time belongs to God, right? Right. Let's say, let's say make 20 bucks an hour after taxes and everything in 10 hours, you make $200. Let's say make a $200 bet and lose that. And you lose it in a one hour, two hours span. So you had to give up 10 hours of your time, which is the most limited resource that you have. No one's guaranteed tomorrow with your wife, your kids, at your job, whatever it is with your parents, whatever, you give up 10 and then you give it away freely within an hour. So what you're saying is, is the time that I've been blessed with is you look at it so poorly that you give up your labor of 10 hours for one hour of maybe enjoyment, but most likely going to lose, right? That the odds aren't your favorite. So it's a weird

18:51thing too to wear corporations and in gam, you know, casinos, they have been able to take this, this big, heavy thing of hours and hours and hours of labor of your time, because all money is, it's just labor quantified into a piece of paper, right? Like $20 is so much of my time, right? And be able to, I mean, that's why Proverbs says like, it'll gotten Ganges go so quickly. Like it took me 20 hours to gain this in 45 minutes to lose it. Yeah, right. It doesn't seem even, right? And what's the trade off is maybe having a little bit of an emotional hide during that 30, 40 hour, two hours, oh, I'm up. I'm down. You talk to like people who are really into gambling. There's a couple of comics that talk about a two where it's like, they, they need that hit so quick, you get to a point to where you're betting like $100 on each shot in basketball. So it's like hit, hit or miss $100, right? And then you realize it's like anything else that becomes an addiction, whether it's food or drugs or porn or whatever it is. Like you always will need more.

19:54There's no dabbling in sin. Like sin goes, yeah, you've had me a little bit now. Because the same level of sin never keeps the satisfaction the same. You have to keep pushing. Yeah, you gotta get more. That's it. Yeah, Jacob, you know, brings up a story about a guy who called in a bomb threat to the US open in like 2018. And it was an 18 year old kid. Yeah, we like who who had just gambled his life away and was putting his putting a bet on some obscure player. And anyway, he got that desperate. So yeah, thinking of bomb threat. This is totally off the subject, but some like 17 year old kid in northern Michigan called it a bomb threat because it was like, it was finals. And they found out. And he was like, I don't take this. And they went and found him. And when they arrested anyway, they were like, why would you do such a thing? And he just said, I wasn't, I wasn't passing that test out. He just hands behind his back. But he was just so honest about it. I was like, I would never think, I would never think to call in a bomb threat. But he was just so like, I wasn't passing that test. I just, I just couldn't figure out a way to get out of it. So I just call it up. There's a buddy who goes to our church. I don't know if

20:57you know I'm Hector. Oh, yeah. Hector Orlando and Rick as Martinez. I do know he's from. Okay, yes, that is his full name. He's from Honduras. And he was saying that there was an assignment that him and his whole class in Honduras wanted to get out of one time. So they all went outside. I don't know if there's resets or lunch or what. They went outside and they rubbed a poisonous oil from one of the local trees all over their skin. They all broke out and rashes and got sent home. There's got to be a better way to get out of that though. It's crazy skin disease. There was a guy who just called in a bomb threat that just got arrested at DTW because he was late before he gets planes. So he just, he knew it would get rescheduled if he called in a bomb. And he showed up at like showed up two hours late and was like, did that get rescheduled? And when he started asking a bunch of questions, they were like, this seems a little suspicious. Why is this guy asking about this particular flight that just had a bomb that like if you get, if you're going to get on a plane and there's a bomb on it, you don't want to talk about you're like, thank God I'm alive. He's like, so what is he going to get rescheduled? He called it in so he could get the thing. I know it's tempting. I know it's tempting. But if any of you are thinking

21:58about calling in a bomb threat, they'll track you down the FBI's good 100% they will get you. Let's not forget that there's a, in 2008 or 2009, legislation was passed for the Prism Act. So every single thing that you've ever looked at on your phone typed in or said is sitting in a server. It's called Prism. So what they do is they intercept it at like Verizon T-Mobile, whoever, they intercept it at the, the government intercepts it at the corporate level and then it, and it's a Prism and it reflects off makes a copy and goes and sits in a server. So that thing that you said to your buddy or text to him or that picture that you looked at online, it's any server somewhere since 2012 and at any time they can, with a, a, I know, they word search it. So that's how they find, you know, you'll, you'll hear FBI, we found this guy or this, that, you go, how the heck did they find them? They'll just, they'll, they'll do image search, word search against sex, it's sex a trillion. What is it? What is the one up from Giga? Trillion? You don't

23:03mean like that much data. That's a lot of data. I didn't mean to get all conspiracy theory on you, but it's kind of crazy too to where it's like we know the state wants to be God. They want to be everywhere, see everything, know everything, right? But it's also, isn't it one of those things to wear like the evilness of people in power's hearts is also proves the Bible true that your sin will find you out. Yeah. Because I can tell you right now, you tell people, and most people just go, I can't believe that. I don't want to think that, I mean, you can go look at the legislation, you can go look where the servers are, you can go, it's there. Every single thing I've said or typed or looked at on my phone is in a server somewhere. And if you got important enough to them, they could, they could pull it up and go, oh, here it is, right? I remember once we had an author come into my elementary school or a junior high and we were, they had written an apocalyptic novel that began with the city being like hydrogen bomb or something. And so the author in order to write this book, she was telling us this, she had Googled a bunch of information about how to destroy an

24:04entire city. She got a call from the feds just from her research. So it's legit, they're listening, they're watching. Well, I mean, just the word search, that's an easy one. If you're, you know, if they see a pattern of the word search and on, you know, and even the private mode on Google stuff, it's not private. It just means it's not keeping it in the cash in your phone, but Google keeps it every, everyone keeps it. There's a reason why Google gives you a free email, right? It's, it's not free. You're the one that's for sale. They want to know what you're typing, what you're looking at, where you're traveling to, all those things. But my point to that too was, is part of going back to the gambling is that a very young age I realized, oh, the only thing that can really combat like a corrupt government, corrupt leaders, a secular world is like a righteous man. Yeah. Like, because I'm thinking in terms of politics as well too, because I'm involved in that, really the only thing that can stand up to a corrupt system is a righteous man. And we see that in the Bible too, right? Shadrack, and you're talking about on fellow errors when you guys have me on or Elijah that stands up to, um, the profits. Yeah, the profits of bail, the profits of

25:08bail. I was trying to think of the female queen. Was it Jezebel? Jezebel. Yeah. But my point is, is like, if they don't have anything on you, then they can't do anything with you. And that goes for, not just politics, but in general, that's the power of the righteousness of Christ. It's not that, oh, I've got to obey all these laws. And I got to be goody too. I can't have any fun. I can't drink. I can't go do this. Okay. Like, immature Christians think that way. And I know Christians who've been, Christians, 30 years and they're still living under that law of like, if I, God wants me to do right things because it makes me look good or clean or righteous. It's like, it is a blessing. Absolutely. When the Lord says, walk in righteousness, abstain from looking at this, abstain from talking like this, abstain from doing these things. And it's not because he's the law giver and hey, you got to obey me. And because I'm insecure and I need a bunch of little minions. Yeah. It's because it's actually a protection in a secular, pagan world. Yeah. I think it's protection and it's freedom. It's people think people think, oh, well, all these rules, all these things you have to follow in scripture. And you're like, no, I'm free from sin.

26:12I like it. It's freedom to follow Christ. It's freedom to not be enslaved to the, to the lust of your, the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life. You know, and don't be scared of the cops if you're not breaking the law. Yeah. Well, for a, yeah, as long as the government is just absolutely, I mean, that's what Romans 13 lays out, right? Like, why has God put them in power to bring justice to evil, doers and to protect the righteous? And, you know, that's a whole another episode. And I've talked about it for length for years after COVID. But that's really one of the defining markers of a government. Are they protecting the righteous and bringing justice to evil doers? That's what we're, that's why the Lord has instituted those higher governments. And in the minute you have a government that protects the evil doer and is, in fact, inflicting some kind of injustice on the righteous, that's when you got to have questions that go, okay, what's going on here? You think that the US is the best play, the closest to that? closest to what country to the, the, the best example of a country that is close to support the

27:13righteous and yeah, right, condemning the evil. Outwardly, yes, but we have, our country does so many evil things. Yeah, I agree. The scenes, man, it really saddens me because God will not be mocked. Right. You can't go out and murder children in the womb, murder children with drone strikes that are on constant, right? Well, wherever you land on the whole Middle East or whatever, I mean, we assassinate people, we, we unalive certain people we don't like, we do all these covert ops and then our presidents get up there and go and God bless the United States of America. And they know about, and it's like, God finds it abominable, the one who loves the shedding of innocent blood, the one who lies, the one who steals, like, there's a whole list in Proverbs. Sixth thing you hate, seven things you find abominable. And, um, and we do, we do it secretly, but then openly we profess with our lips. And I just look at our country and go, there's going, it's going to come to a time to where God's going to say no more. You're no longer allowed to blaspheme my name. You can't everyone stand up and put your hand over your chest. I pledge

28:16allegiance to under God, indivisible. Yeah. It's on our money. Yeah. But we do so many evil things. But we're quickly corroding, I would say. I would say we still are the last bastion of some type of biblical mosaic justice. Right. Our founding fathers wrote the Constitution based on mosaic law. It was a crazy unheard of thing at the time. Um, to go, uh, I for an eye and tooth for a tooth, which that's a whole nother thing. Do you guys? Really quick. I don't mean to be talking about saying because I want to interview you guys. No, we're on your show, man. But, uh, but so a lot of non-Christians will go, oh my, how are cake is an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth? If you guys have ever done a study on that and go, what was really going on there? Why God said eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth? Because before the mosaic law, it was just unjust punishment to the crime. You steal a piece of bread. I just cut off your arm and God came along and said, whoa, no, no, no, no. You don't get to disable someone because he stole something from you that cost you very little

29:17and was very little to you. It's eye for an eye tooth for a tooth equal punishment under the law. And the Jews were the only one who had that. Everyone else was like, what? Like, no, we're barbaric. I'm going to teach you a lesson. You steal grain from me. I'm going to cut your leg off. And then you'll never steal grain again because you'll be hopping around looking for grain. Like that was the attitude of the ancient world. The Jews come along and God gives them the Torah, gives them the law and it says, no, no, no. If, you know, and then there's all the all the rules. Like if he, if he, if he kills your oxen and you can't work, then just repay for what it was like it was very equal punishment under the law. So the Jews are living on all these pagans and the pagans are going, these crazy Jews that don't, they're not even like savage. They have this God that says like they show mercy to people who steal, right? So when you look at it from that aspect, non-Christians think it seems very like get even-ish when it's actually God going, no, no, no, it's mercy in the fact that the crime, the punishment has to fit the crime, crime has to fit the punishment. So that's what our founding father said. They said, yeah, we're not doing all the stuff that the Nordics are doing and some of the Ingles Saxons

30:21did in the past. We want the mosaic law, I, for an I, two, for two, the blind justice system, punishment has to equal crime, crime has to equal the punishment. So my whole point is, is that's where we came from and now where we are now, sort of 50 years later. I think in name, we have a lot of that. The justice system does have a lot of good things, but man, I just fear that it's corroding pretty quickly. Yeah, it seems that way. Because we've called evil good and good evil, right? Like I mean, you can murder babies in the womb and we're like, hey man, that's, that's like healthcare. Yeah, insanity. You know, like we can redefine what marriage is and that's, that's normal. Like, no, man, men can get pregnant. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Like, men can have periods. What are you crazy? Like, that's how they look, you know, I mean, you've totally twisted all these things up. Why would we want periods? Clip that. No. Clip that. That's going to, that's how I'm going to open the, open the episode. Oh, no. Oh, I was going to say too, not to like, you know, go too far backwards, but you, are you asked about the name? I never, I never, I never heard the name. Just a quick story on the,

31:24on the, the background of the name is one of the one that got squashed the first initial iteration of the podcast that got squashed. So we were starting things up and I remember discussing with Noah and Sam, the original guys I had with me, what we were going to do and still kind of like processing, okay, what is this show going to be and trying to think of a name and and it was one of those moments where I was in bed, everything shut off, put the kids to bed. My wife's already asleep. I'm about to fall asleep myself and it just like, it was like a light bulb in my head, being fellow airs. And I remember it's thinking like, I know that's in the Bible, but I don't know where. Looked it up, but it's, it's in Ephesians 3 and it's in Romans 8. And just the, the whole idea of us being fellow airs of a kingdom, right? Fellow airs of a reward that Christ has welcomed us into, that Christ has given to us. And that's the whole motivation for the name. And yeah, I love

32:28this story. I don't think I've ever really got that on record, but that is the story of the name. So I really have it to be here. Yeah, so I, I told like when I heard the name, I was like, I love that name because I know exactly what I was saying. Plus for me, like, air always seems so classy. It did. Doesn't it seem classy? Like when you say, yes, he's air to the, to the, to the, to the, the Monte Cristo fortune. And you're like, ooh, air. As we see here, both wearing our, are white. I know. Yeah. You guys, you guys have the downplayed billionaire look. You know, I mean, it's through Zuckerberg kind of, it's actually accurate. Who knows? You guys could be with a billion each. I mean, that's what it looks like. But no, fellow airs. And I mean, that's how the Bible talks about it. Like you've become fellow airs in this kingdom with Christ. That's really why in Ephesians 2, just a chapter before where this name comes from, is because it's like, you are dead in your, dead in your sins. You're basically dead men walking. And now you've been lifted up and high and priestly places, fellow airs with Christ in his promise. It's cool that you're, I didn't realize your chapter two and we're on chapter three. Yeah, you're the

33:32dead men walking right now. And unless you repent and then you become fellow airs. So we're kind of two sides of the salvation coin. Let's go. I like it. Tell me a little bit about your guys' upbringing and your testimony. I wanted to get into that at least a little bit before we get too crazy on anything else. But Isaac, you, so you guys are both like second generation Christ the Word. Yeah, we both grew up in the church. Yes. You're probably, no, you definitely didn't start in the church because Christ the Word started in 2002. Yeah, I think we came in 2005. Okay. So pretty early though. Yeah, pretty early on. And you were born in 95. 96. 96. You were in 2001. Close. 2000. 2002. Oh, 2002. Okay. Oh my gosh. I know, too. That's so old. Maybe you guys were born before 9-11. You've been happy. We're born in the 1900s. The 1900s. Yeah. But yeah, I'll go first. If you don't go ahead, man. Well, so I grew my dad and my dad, you know, first generation Christian.

34:36And he came from a crazy life. And he actually gave his testimony on the podcast. I had him come on. And that was that's one of my favorite episodes. Actually, it was, it was, I learned things. It's so funny how people when they sit down the record stuff just comes out that you don't know. And I'm like, Dad, I've been your son for like 27 years at that point when we were 28 years when we recorded. And I had never known some things he brought up on the show. Anyway, he said, Nick, you're adopted. Yeah. Big revelations. But I'm second of 12 kids. Okay. So there's, wow, I didn't know he had 12. Yeah, seven girls, five boys. Yep. And I'm very blessed to have that upbringing. My dad became a Christian, got married. And said, we're going to do what the Bible says, which would be fruitful and multiply and children are blessing. And so, but anyway, so we grew, yeah, I grew up in the church and really didn't start following Christ or when I say following Christ, taking my faith seriously until I was about 18 to like 22 was like the timeline

35:37for me. I always think of it as like a, it's a weird way of saying it. But this is how I think of it. It's like a frog being boiled. You know, the saying, you put the frog in the pot and it's like slowly boiled. I guess my, my flesh would be the frog in a way. Does that make sense? Do you guys understand now just quickly going downhill? I was with you. That's a, like a fleshy frog. That's how it was. That's how it was. Now I get what you're saying, slowly boiled. So yeah, no, because we, we spoke about like this date thing. Yes, you, we talked about this when I was on your guys' podcast. And it's a weird thing to wear. It's like when you're, when you grow up in the church, too, you're like, I don't have that specific, like this day, I'm saved. You know, which really lends your, lends, lends you to more covenant theology. I truly believe that. Like, like, you're in the covenant. And here's the thing, we don't have to know the date. That's, that's the whole point I was trying to make, too, because I had some people in our church come up to me and go, Hey, I want, uh, who was it? I, who would my wife say it was? Truly Morgan. Thank you. I got to ask him. Don't ever, don't get your, don't get your 40s.

36:40At least you were listening to my wife. Right. Yeah. One person. She comes up to me because I got a bone to pick with you. I listened to, uh, dick and Isaac. Yeah, yeah. And I want to, and she was half joking. She wasn't really wasn't mad. But, um, which is funny because I told him I had like 15 people come up to me. Wow. Oh, we listen. And it's like, Oh, man, everyone listens at this church. That's awesome. You guys are at least talking to about 800 people every week. Plus more, plus the Hong Kong. You got a big following in Hong Kong over there. Full of airs. We don't know what's going on. If you're, I don't know, if you know what's going on at Hong Kong, you're listening to this show. Let us know what's happening. No, I'm trying to figure out. I still think it was a, a screw up in the game. Some sort of like, yeah, I bought a farm or something. I like to think there's like a really on fire around church. And they're like, we must tune into Isaac. Isaac and Nick this week. Who do they have on? Oh, they talk about gambling. That's a horrible accent. Uh, cut that. Cut that. Oh, cut that myself. Uh, uh, we've been there. We've been there. We've been there with him. He's like, your episode's 12 minutes, Greg. Did you know?

37:44Cut down from an hour 40. Uh, no. So, yeah, the generational thing that I think is the goal. Like, I love hearing those stories where it's like, I grew up in church. I said, like, I have this huge conversion thing. But you kind of know to like, when your heart is changed, I think, right? Yeah. There's a heart change there. I totally agree. That's what happened with me. And the biggest thing that changed me into a Christian, the thing that convinced me that, that Christ was what I needed was, it was so simple to me. It was like, there's sin. Jesus is the answer to that sin. I can become a Christian and I am saved through him. He takes away my sin. That's literally what it was as I became very convicted of my sin. And it was, like I said, a slow, slow burn. It was like, yeah, all the way until, like I said, like 22, 23. And this is like getting into marriage and, and that is sanctifying too. But like, recognizing where my sin takes me, and knowing, like, at the conviction of it, Christ being the cure for the disease. And it's that simple. It's that, it's that's, it was the gospel. And it, so that's how it is. Is it funny how we kind of complicate the gospel sometimes?

38:49Right. Like, I don't worry. I read a lot of books. I can explain this. Yeah. Yeah. Your center Christ takes away sin. Exactly. Repent and believe. Yep. Amen. How about you? What do you got? Yeah. I mean, again, similar background because I grew up at Christ the word, but I had a different, a little bit of a different spin to it. So I was born into the church. My dad, there's, we actually have an episode on our show late 2025 talking about the origins of Christ the word church. And my dad was the guest on that. He was one of the ones that started the church. And so I never knew anything different, but I will say I absolutely was not a slow, burn frog or whatever. Yeah. No, that's, that's the boiled frog. Yeah. I was not a boiled frog. But sure, it's frog. Is it lobster? Yeah. It's like, no, no, the term is like, it's like the, what is it? It's a pot in the frog. Yeah. Yeah. It's a frog. You're going to frog in a pot. I said pot in a frog. Frog. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll say for years, because they will. A frog won't jump out. If you put it in, I did not know that. Have you done that? Have you boiled a frog before?

39:49I cannot confirm it or not. I've never tortured a frog. No, but you can watch. I mean, there's cycles on YouTube that I'll show you. You just put a time lapse on it. And if you start it cold and put it in water and then turn on the burner, it will, it won't jump out. They won't jump out. Well, it's also, it's cold-blooded. So it's, it's always changing. It's internal body temperature until just that. Okay. But the point is like, if you do something a little bit at a time, you get used to it, where, you know, next thing you do, you turn around, it's five years later and you're like, I'm a degenerate gambler or whatever. Yeah. So anyways. So I was not a slow, boiled frog. I grew up in a very godly home. Both my parents are first generation Christians, either of their parents were of the faith. And I had a very good base from a knowledge perspective. I was always taught the Bible, learned all the verses, went to the church, youth programs and all of that. But I was absolutely not living for the Lord. And I went to public school and absolutely fell into

40:52everything that I could have by the age of 13, by the age of 12 or 13, when I was saved. And so I don't know. I was cussing, you know, doing it. I was trying to be one of the guys. Yes, at school. This surprises me. I know. I've never told you this. Yeah, no. Zoinks isn't a cuss word, though. I said frick. Oh, frick. I'm just kidding. No, no. But then I remember I had a, it just said just picture a little eyes. You shut the frick up. Tell my mom. No, that's me now. I was. That was the last week. But he's like, yeah. It's true. But yeah, yeah. So like had a head knowledge of it, knew it, grew up in church, but you had a head knowledge. But do not. Yes. And I knew that I was not well off. I, in fact, I remember sitting there one day thinking, like, I only have so long before I'm going to be in front of the elderboard at church someday getting in trouble. Like, I, like, I knew that I was going to get into some serious stuff. And I wasn't on a good path. And I wouldn't say that really scared me. But it, it, it did in certain

41:59ways. I remember asking my dad about hell and such. Sure. Um, but okay. So summer in between seventh and eighth grade year, there was one night where I, I, I committed some sin and I felt immense guilt for it for the first time in my life. I felt guilt for committing sin. And I didn't know what the heck was happening. So I went out. What the heck? What the frick? Yeah. I didn't know what the frick. So I went out to the, I'm making you sure this is what the frick. I'm ordering it. I'm giving it to you off our site. I'm going to do you to that. Make sure. But I went out to my driveway to shoot hoops because that's how I would always blow off steam. I would play basketball for hours growing up every day. And so I went out to the driveway. I was shooting around and I remember my mom came out to check on me at one moment. And I just, I just basically told her that I was feeling guilt for a certain sin and she walked me through a couple things and it's like, okay, and so then later that night or the next day, same thing happened. I got hit with another, another sense of guilt for a sin I had committed.

43:03And the next two weeks were two of the craziest weeks of my life. Every sin that I was actively committing and every sin that I had ever committed was coming to mind. And every single one, I would just, I felt so guilty for it. And I would go to my parents and I would explain it to them. I would explain this random sin that I committed when I was six years old. It might be some lie that I told her whatever it was. I just had this two week period where I was just basically purging my life of years of sin and that guilt was the Holy Spirit. And at the end of that two weeks, a couple weeks later, a guy named Philip Kinney gave a sermon at our church. It was a Sunday night service. And he basically went up on stage and said when I was in junior high, I had to start living differently at school because I got saved. And I talked to my dad about it. He said to go ask Philip for advice. And I did so. And I talked to Philip. And he gave me just some pointers and some different things that he had tried to make himself separate from those that were at school. And football two a days started a couple weeks after that. And so that was the first time where I was

44:05a newly born Christian and going back to my old friend groups. And I was. Yeah, that's tough to especially like a football team and the things they talk about, things that go on and just hang in with the guys and being a team. Yeah, that's tough to then be like, I've got to be separated and kind of different exactly the way I talk, act and thing. And from that point on, I was absolutely separate. And they knew me from that point on as the Christian kid. And that wasn't just a title like I lived it. And I. It's funny because I grew up in the church, but it was, I can point to a date. I actually don't have the date, but I can point to a two week period where I just absolutely was saved by God, not looking for him, not searching. God saved me like I. Right. During that two weeks, were you said you were confessing these sins to your parents? Yeah, I would confess him to my parents. I would confess him to God. I would just, I was just trying to get help from anywhere. Was there something leading up to that? Was there like a sermon you heard or something? Or can you, like if you think back, was there like, or was it just like, there was like a regeneration? And it was like, now I'm aware of my sin. Yeah, I, yeah, I was

45:08aware. Like something leading up to that. The only thing I could say is I was just progressively getting into worse and worse sin and just taking on more and more sin in my life, which obviously came with hiding behind more and more veils of deception. So yeah, like that was the time leading up to it. But no, it wasn't a certain thing that I did or saw. Like God just saved me. I didn't know where I can't. I will never be able to argue against predestination. Because out of your personal experience, it was not my choice. Like God just saved me. That reminds me because what I said to you about the slow burn over the period of time for me was one big thing or a few things that I can look at as like evidence of that change happening. The first thing that happened was you, because as you mentioned, confessing sins to parents to your parents. The first thing that happened, I remember being so convicted and I knew, I knew God was calling me to do the right thing was I had, I was dating a girl at the time in high school. My dad wanted to be home by a certain time. He had a curfew for me and I was to come home and if he was in bed sleeping, I was to wake him up. I think the curfew was like 11 or something.

46:12And I had come home late and I knew I came home late and I knew he was going to be mad at me and he was the next day. And it was one of those like, I knew he was angry and disappointed with me. So you know, he didn't like, I was like 17 or 18 and all he showed was disapproval and disappointment. And that crushed me enough to where I was so convicted. I remember I was shoveling snow at church. The next morning was Sunday morning, we had to go early, we were designated to shovel snow that day. Anyway, just a heavy conviction of apologize to your dad, what you did. Like go to your dad and say, I'm sorry for being late. You said for me not to be and I disobeyed you. And it, that was God. I mean, that was one of those times and I ended up going to him in apologizing and saying, I was wrong. And there was another time too where the same thing I committed us in and I remember being like, I knew in my heart, like, my parents are going to find out about me doing this. I need to confess this to them. And I actually woke them up. It was like 2 a.m. or something

47:16and I confessed my sin to them. And that's another time in there. I think it was a third time too that I remember. They just say, Hey, dad, dad, Isaac said, Frick. Well, that's the thing, Nick, is when you were, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? You're friends. No, you're totally right. The only reason why I believe that there's a heart change in all is because I've ever even asked someone to forgive me. Yeah. That's like I in my own sin and in my own personality, I would never want to apologize or say, I'm sorry, I have grace for anyone else. I'm just a real a whole by nature. Like the fact that that I can even recognize and see, oh, I've not only offended someone or said something or I need to ask forgiveness. Like you just said, that that doesn't come, I don't think it comes naturally to anything. But for me, I don't, I would argue with myself, right? They're on the wrong, like I've gone out of my way before to convince myself that I don't have to, right? And especially pre-Christ, even post-Christ sometimes.

48:18And then the Holy Spirit's like, what do you do? You don't mean what are you doing? Well, that's the thing. When you're going up to your parents and you're asking them for forgiveness, your guilt needs to be correlated with action because I remember that is that that's a specific instance that I experienced. And this might have actually been before I was saved. I remember feeling guilt for sin at one point, but I didn't make steps to stop sinning. And I remember asking the youth pastor, Jordan, I said, if you feel guilt for sin, are you a Christian? And that was my, that's what I was wrestling with. Like I'm feeling guilt for sin. Does that mean I'm saved? And I forget if it was his answer or someone else that I had asked that, they said, well, they're serial killers that feel guilt and remorse for their sin. And they are not saved. And so where the guilt meets action is where you're seeing real growth. Judas versus Peter. I mean, like Judas felt guilt and led him to kill himself. Yeah, that's action, but not the right one.

49:20I saw just like kind of like a little like a logo meme type thing. And it just said Judas heard all of Jesus' sermons too. And you're like, oh, yeah. Like he was right there when Jesus was doing miracles. He was right there when he was feeding the 5,000 and all. He assisted with things. He assisted with it, right? And you're like, so, so just, just seeing and hearing isn't enough. It's not enough. It's not enough. True, like you just said, and I think pastor, Jordan, is right for saying that. Like, like true change is if action follows it, right? And not action, like I'm not like Catholic action. Like I have to go do these say these 10 prayers or do these things or get so many things in this year or praying someone up to purgatory, not workspace salvation. It's like you naturally just find yourself going, oh, this is what proceeds from my faith. Because because if you truly believe something, you you you act on it. You act on it, right? Yeah. Like if you can't swim, you don't go jump in a lake. That's 20 feet deep, right? Yeah.

50:22Like they're so so in my life, I've seen I've seen a lot of people come and go, excuse me on belief alone and go into church once a week, maybe twice a week, but there's no action behind it. I've seen in my life where I've said something with my mouth and professed it and thought I believed it. But then when I really examine and go, but am I am I acting on that belief? Does it look like I believe that? I go, oh, no, I don't. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I know. I and that's something at Christ the word that we still swim your water. I didn't get myself any something at Christ the word that that I think Isaac and I and you you would know this too, Greg, at this point, you've been there years now, but is just the there is a lot of emphasis on obedience and the how faith and obedience are intertwined. Yes. You know, you obey with faith. Like and you often obey what the word says contrary to how you feel, contrary to what the

51:22what the people around you are saying. Like people who don't think what you're doing is good. And in the case of my parents that was having children that was like beyond like four or five kids and then stop doing that. They kept going. But yeah, so obedience is huge and it's it's what separates people who who say I'm a Christian and people who actually act like Christians. Yeah, James 219, you believe that there is one God good. Even the demons believe that and shudder. Right. Yeah. Believe isn't enough. Believe isn't Greg. You and I were talking about that earlier. We were talking about just like the religious revival, so-called religious revival in America. We were just talking about some of the stats behind that. And we were saying, well, there's probably a huge subset of people that claim to be Christian. Yeah. They say they're reformed even. They might go to church twice a year. And that's just not there's no obedience correlated with that. And that's that's scarier than being an atheist because you're comfortable and you are fine. Comfortable in your faith and you aren't seeking to grow anymore. Yeah, it really seems to be that

52:25lukewarm area that yeah, that God is talking about. I'll vomit you out of it. I'd rather you be hot or cold. There's lukewarm thing where yeah, where it's like I am a Christian, but I don't reflect it in speech action or thought like Ligonier does a 25,000 person survey every year in last years came out and they ask a series of like 25 questions, 25,000 evangelical Christians. Now, even the term evangelical is like kind of like there's evangelical lesbians and there's like evangelical like fundamentalists. So it's like the word evangelical is kind of weird. But now Christian is getting that way. 66% of the 25,000 self-identified Christians did not believe that Christ was divine or the son of God. 66% yes, out of 25,000. This is across all. I'm not putting my point in my finger at one denomination. It was like cross. It was everyone. It was anilicon, Presbyterian, Catholic, non-denominational, Baptist like all didn't agree. Would you say Christ was divine? Was not divine. They think he wasn't divine. Meaning he wasn't God.

53:29Meaning so he was a good teacher. He was a good prophet. He was a good leader. He was a good rabbi, whatever. That's people who self-identify his Christians. So the term Christian has been watered down so much. It's so tough. And people get really annoyed when they ask me a question, I go, well, can you divine define what you mean that term? You're just nitpicking. No, I really like what you think of Christian is different. It's completely different. Or what the Bible says what a Christian is. Right. Or what the Bible says. So yeah, it's a really crazy thing to where like I was talking to him too. I think too we've been in subjective truth for so long. You have a lot of and I want to talk to you guys about this since you're from the younger generation. A lot of younger guys seeking after an absolute moral truth now because we, you know, if you're 23, you're 23, right? Dude, you're whole entire life. The media has lied to you. The government has lied to you. There's been no such thing as like really objective moral truth. It's all subjective. Reddit strands. Right? Like like everything you know about life, you get from reddit from the time you're like 11 to 14.

54:35Like, okay, that's what the world's about. So it's this weird thing to wear them like younger, especially younger guys because guys generally will try to seek philosophical truth even before women do at a younger age. They go, okay, I need some type of structure, some type of truth. So then you see Catholicism go up, Islam go, Mormonism going up even within the reform community, that going up because there's some type of structure and someone telling me this is the truth and the way it is, right? And I was just wondering, that's a statistic. But what are you guys? What are you guys coming across? Like, I don't, I don't generally have two guys on in their 20s that are believers. I'd take this time to go like, what are the younger guys struggling with or looking after or what does the world look like to someone in their 20s right now? Now, you guys won't be the typical, right? You're strong in your faith, you have families, you're having kids. I would say, I'm not just saying this because you're here. I would say, I would want most young men listening to this to model what these two young men are doing because I just know their lives and I know what they're doing. That's where we want to get to, I think,

55:39is what you guys are doing. But I'm saying for those out there that are in their 20s, like, what are you guys coming across in your peer groups, like with what's going on in the world politically, like with with the resurgence of denominationalism and religion? Where are we going to say? Well, I was going to reference a podcast that you and I have both listened to in the last week. I think it released last Wednesday by plain English with Derek Thompson. Yeah. That was, they're talking about this exact thing. Where are young people turning to? Where are Christians turning to right now as the source? And what they said is the same patterns that we see across media and the same patterns that we see across sports. Those patterns are being are leaking through to religion as well. Also, what do you mean? What I mean by that is instead of having, you know, CNN, Fox, NBC, whatever it is, all three of those are the three major outlets and everyone has to listen to what those say. And then each town has one newspaper and it's just very centralized. Now what everyone's doing for their news is they're going to a million different ex posts.

56:40Substack. Yeah. Substack. They're they're right. It's right. Everything is so fragmented and there's so many ways to it. And that is very similar to what we're seeing with religion, especially amongst young people is there's not it's the the death of denominations. And so it's the death of, you know, the PC USA or whatever. Sure. There's so is it kind of they're saying it's like more buffet. Yeah, it's what you want. It's what you want. There's so many Christian influencers you can take your pick of exactly what you want. It's it's a buffet. Yeah. And the every church is non-denominational that non-denominational numbers are through the roof, including our church compared to what they were 50 years ago. And it's just everyone is personalizing Christianity. Yeah. Yeah. I would also say too. We I still see with the because Isaac and I both help lead along with Jacob Bartlett who like I said came on the gambling episode that we released. Isaac and I help lead

57:43young adult ministries. We he's he helps out with a small group. I lead a small group at my house. Anyway, I still see in regards to young men like they I think young we would both agree that we see a lot of young men at Christ the Word like they're coming in. They're seeing that the the rigidity of the truth this the oftentimes actually it's like what draws guys in is like the disciplinary they want to get hit right they want they want to get hit which is like we're all men like I think at some point in time we want to be slapped around and told clean up your act and be better men have to have structure to survive even the ones that are rebellious have to have some type of structure yeah yeah agreed and so they come in but I think what I'm recognizing more and more is just like the absolute destructive nature of feminism that is still affecting us today and what I mean by that is I mean yeah confidence like I don't know if there's anyway like being being upfront brave you know there's as a man

58:49as a man like like like having ambition drive focus like going after something sure is still I would say a major effect of of destroying what what men are and saying women can be that instead and I said I at least in my view I feel like I still see the effects of that today the young guy and I I would say I was the same way when I was younger too you know I'm praise God that he he changed me but you're saying feminism you've kind of seen like have an effect on on the countenance of young men in yes in the way they I don't know they're confidence and are the way they just are like yeah they're like floating around they're like I don't know I'll do this you know I guess we'll go this or it's it's a timidness to pursue a wife have a drive in your career right right go after something be be bold talk about Christ you know women are doing the ambitious things yeah women are doing the ambitious stuff my wife and I went to BG last week

59:51and we just sat on campus and people watch for a while after we ate dinner it's scary thing to do we saw a hold lightsaber battle we saw some shirtless frat guys it was it was an entertaining time but yeah the amount of the male to female ratio on campus is insane yeah like women are the ones going to college they're they make up 50% of every team of astronauts like everything that's and that's being accomplished head is being driven by women right now yeah yeah crazy have pushing guys I'm just thinking of like I'm trying to do this too like have ambition have a drive like you know take on responsibility be a godly man and and you know work hard be a hard worker like those are the kinds of things that I'm trying to push in I wonder if it's too I don't know I think about it and go even you know for generations and generations part of the part of the inner working of a man the prize was well I work hard and I sacrifice and I do these things

1:00:56because I do love my wife who is my help mate who is my life partner who I'm gonna you know what I mean and it was kind of that was kind of the godly prize too not not that I'm objectifying women and saying their prize I'm saying that's why men will do it they'll go work 40 50 60 hours a week break their back die 15 years earlier than women their wives just to go sure honey what do you need what can I provide for you and the kids now the woman is taking that role and I've talked to some young men too to where it's like not only is it excuse me not only is it like um theologically off but like it's not there's not even a physical attraction or a sexual attraction to a like a dominant ambitious woman like men are just not attracted to that at all and now you can you know you can go well why is that and and psychologists and therapists and everyone and anyone who works in biology go we don't we don't understand why women are attracted to men who

1:01:58lead and men are attracted to women who help yeah and you go oh it's sexist right that secular world says that sexist that's less than that's whatever and um the the big issue I'm seeing right now is feminism has so pervaded uh even these young women that now the men go okay well you're doing you're already doing the ambitious thing you're going to college like you said you're doing also but now I'm not even really attracted to the type of person you are like I would rather just kind of hang out and play video games with my boys and if I need you know if I need to confide in someone I'll do it do it with them instead of why do I want to get married to that yeah um and that's a cut that's oh now look at that's only a couple younger guys I've talked to no we see that so much I can make sense too because it's like I wouldn't I knew I know I wouldn't and look at my wife is very smart she is ambitious she's she had a business that was successful but it was always under the means of like I was the leader of my home I'm the leader of my house uh she has this fun trick that she does every time I have a new idea and I'm like oh we're gonna do this she's like well I can't

1:03:00out argue you um so yeah go ahead and check with God and if he says it's okay then we'll do it and she gets me every time because I know if I submit it to poor god he's gonna go no you can't do that you got real responsibility because I know I can convince my wife but I can't convince God and I and it only works really too if you're a husband that really does fear the Lord yeah like I fear the judgment of the Lord like every decision I make it for me and my family is going to come back to me on judgment day so if you have a godfaring husband my wife goes it is the most comfortable position to be in the helping position I I tell my wife she goes I get all the benefit my wife that's what I say she goes I get she goes I get all the benefits and I get none of really the responsibility yeah I tell my wife to say it's so funny I just had a conversation with her I was like because we were talking about you know dealing with just certain things that she's going through and and and I've mentioned it I'm like hey if you have it so simple like I'm just trying to lead and and you know you just take the take take the decisions I'm making and you're like okay I guess

1:04:03what he says is what we're doing and that's all you got to oh only a guy in his 20s looks at his wife who has some young kids and goes you have a so easy that's all you got to do is follow me babe I mean come on no ever since I've been working from home I've picked up on the fact that my wife works twice as hard as I do yeah and yeah her job like never stops actually never you know we hit and clock out but dude I've seen my wife get into a new gear with my with my kids getting older penny gonna be a senior this fall another one at high school like like the whole getting ready for the college thing and like the it taken to the campus and and get it all the credits right yeah I go I would have no patience for any of this it's a full time job just doing that and it's like it's crazy because you guys will get there too in 20 years where you have like stages of like appreciating your wife for different things that they do in the household you know what I mean right like from the newborn and then into the elementary years even I'm talking kids stuff too

1:05:03but even just house stuff um I don't know I don't know how we got into that subject but yes appreciate our wives yes fem feminism is uh from Satan and here's the here's the crazy thing guess who are the happiest group of women in the United States when serving who do you think is it married women is it married conservative women I would say Muslim Muslim women well I mean that's married and technically politically conservative but it is it's married conservative women that belong that belong to a conservative denomination of church whether that's amazing Catholic Presbyterian or yeah because the episode they report the most happiness yeah the episode that but the world tells you they're the handmaidens tale they're the worst off right you're horrible the husband hates you he just uses you for your body and for you to wash floors and those women when secretly surveyed and not told what it's for the report the most joint happened and my wife goes yeah of course yeah it's it's awesome it's it's the same for us when we submit to God it's like

1:06:06that only leads to joy and and yeah there's there's so much joy and like I said the freedom of of following Christ leads to so much joy it's not slavery it's freedom but but yeah even the episode that Isaac mentioned that we I sent him that one because I was like this is culturally relevant we we try to stay up with that stuff that's what we talked about gambling is because it's relevant but we're at least we're trying to but one static the guy mentioned is like the happiest people in America are the people who are married we have children who are a part of a community meaning a church who are conservative he was like conservative people are and that guy's going off way more than he's not creative data yeah he was like conservative people time and time again are always happier than than liberal people yeah like there are always always happier but yeah it's so sad that the the lies that that the secular world just throws at men and women and on the flip side of that there's not a happier man that knows that he's pleasing his wife by providing for her

1:07:09protecting her being intimate with her all those like like if your wife is what is happy in the in those like areas you're on top of the world oh yeah if she comes up she goes man I I love that you work so hard for me you're like dude I'm gonna go sell another thousand units who's cool you know what I mean like you don't need much as a guy that's what exactly is most liberal women who like think they you know I got to have this in a career this like dude you men are very easily motivated and we and we will break our bodies for you for for no reason just for you to say thank you honey but because God created us that way God created us to go out and labor and work and and provide and as much as women like to talk through an issue and feel with their emotions and that's their that's the way God created them men like to work and provide and and give security and when you have a wife that appreciates that it's like dude you're on the top you're in top of the world you're like yeah let's go I can run through a brick wall absolutely bring me so much and it's so crazy how it's so godly and it fits together so perfectly and then you got the rest of the world

1:08:10on fire trying to redefine roles and men can uh mention you're Wednesday home and do this and women go to work and do that and they're you're equal and everything and equal version and it's like but it doesn't work yeah it doesn't work and it doesn't lead to to joy I mean it's so it's yeah yeah so you get so much joy from following Christ and obeying what the word says yeah so what else you guys got coming up uh on fellow airs as we put bookends on this episode guys like uh one at so can you can you uh can you tell can you yeah yeah we've got a schedule we have a couple different series you could call them series we have um a current event series we usually bring on at the aforementioned uh David Bailey yep um to talk about different current events it might be you know it was ice um two months ago when that was super relevant and we hope to have them on to talk about I ran soon sure and who that'll be interesting I'm so excited for that episode yeah that was so fun uh when I went to boundary waters with him uh oh yeah you went on the boundary waters a couple years ago and I was the only at the church for about a year yeah

1:09:14and on the on the drive up there you know you're going between Canada and Minnesota can in the United States he goes he goes guys let me read you this article from the Atlantic you know it's something to do with Trump and something else in foreign and we're like oh okay he's founding pastor like he's gonna read us this thing and how long can an article be this thing was I don't know 10 pages and a half a state we got some half a Minnesota I mean he's read and we go when did you read this he goes I had six o'clock this morning for the first two hours and then when we stopped off to get uh culverts I sat in a car and read the second half and it was like wow and it was so it was so but it was a really good article yeah and then I realized he'd downloaded David had downloaded like a week's worth of articles because you don't get any cell service on it yeah yeah and just at the fire every night I mean the guy's always it's one of the thing is I appreciate about David always reading always learning always up on current stuff right yes like if you talk to him about anything and him and I will have disagreements on stuff and we absolutely love it because then we'll hug it out and I'll go well you know we'll find out

1:10:17you're wrong when we get to have a David but until then I'll submit to you it's great you would say that you would say that I won't but we joke I've ever told you my this is kind of inside baseball but this for those listening to this is why started going to this church I'd bet I went to a camping the church camping for two months and did I tell you this no I didn't know he was making making fun of people in the so David standing in the bathroom in the camp bathroom I'm in the stall we won't get any more graphic but it was the morning time I just had coffee I'm in the stall and he's standing outside and people are coming in and out and he's like making he's like you call that up toothbrush what is that pink you use a pink toothbrush like he's like he's like so you're listening yes I'm listening and I'm like is that David the pastor I'm only been at the church for two months at this point and I'm like is he just roasting people they walk in and out the absolutely the bathroom right so I come out and he goes on he looks at me look at this guy you call that a beard I mean where are you gonna get that thing it's gonna tear that morning so then I start roasting him back and then we laugh and we hug and I go I think this is gonna be my my church

1:11:19for life I've never had a lead pastor just roasted but it wasn't it was in good good nature he was rubbing he knew all the guys yeah he understood also understood that men need to rip each other that's how we that's a weird thing that we do it is a weird thing it's a good thing you know what I mean like like when a woman says do I look fat the female friend says oh no you look great oh my gosh when a guy says do I look fat you go I know five fat guys and you're four of them like yes you need to lose wait like that's how we talk as guys right and we love it because it's we don't want to get into the psychology of it but my whole point was is like he was one of these guys that he's not just a pastor and up on current events so I'm glad you're having him on but also one of these guys that go I understand relationship yes absolutely yeah he's so I have him back on to talk and fun fact he's colorblind so he often makes fun of people for having pink items when they're actually great that pink and gray are at their transfer building it yeah that's that's one thing I was gonna say I think you're two months two months of attendance and then coming to the church

1:12:20camp a trip as a record I don't think anybody else has been at the church for two months and then decided to go camping oh I mean we love the church we were already camping anyway we got a camper sitting right outside but it was like okay we're gonna find and it was so funny Jordan and some of the other guys for those listening some of the other pastors were like oh you're going on the camping trip you guys just start to well you're really gonna find out about what you will you do and we kept going what are they talking about like are we gonna do like we're gonna strip down or underwear and do a science what is he it was so weird he just kept saying it and we went there we're like no this is great yeah this is exactly what I mean we had I say Bailey did uh did that was the year he did the uh the karaoke karaoke yes uh it's usually a broken boner too but that's a good time that's a good time yeah where were you gonna say oh whoa I was just I just had our calendar pulled up oh yeah okay so you got David coming on yes you got check out with hybrid can I mention I AI okay so we had if if yeah if you're listening you're interested please check out we did an episode with a guy from our church named Jason Broward the doctor he's a professor this is my favorite episode we have ever done go check it out it was

1:13:24January of this year yeah clinical psychologist and he talked all about the dangers of AI chatbots for therapy so going to them for like that's a huge thing it's a huge growing thing yes like for emotional advice and for emotional connection and if you think you're not on a road to use AI's for AI for therapy right think again yeah my eyes were opened that day it was very good and he was very knowledgeable and gave a lot of wisdom on that so but uh it's speaking of AI we're having there's two guys from our church who one of them is a coder and one's an expert that uses it in his business very often his Isaac's father-in-law so we're having both of them on to less of a like you know let's get to a lesson that everyone can learn more of like where are we at with AI like what are you guys seeing how can we think of a Christian perspective in this how can we encourage people um in how to think about this thing because I just I keep thinking we

1:14:25live in such a crazy time yeah it is it's just insane to me that we have things like AI it is it is crazy to me so you know what we're wanting to talk about it you know it's really weird is so I had a guy on who worked for uh Tesla and he was helped developing the AI for the cars and had him on three years ago and we were talking about like all this kind of stuff that was like very cutting edge three years ago it was like who's going to program the morality of AI and bottle in this yeah and I just went back and relistened about 15 minutes of it and it sounds like we're talking talking from the 1970s that is so true it's it's went so like I when I was interviewing him three years ago I'm like oh this is in the next 10 years it is literally 72 months later yeah 72 that's the wrong number 36 months for three years uh simple math Greg um and it's like we're in it where it was like a different decade ago it's already all come true we're already all using AI that has its morality code written for it and we just didn't argue now we're going oh well Grocks a little more conservative uh Gemini's a little more liberal and you're like we're missing we're

1:15:29missing the point yeah that the people were taken therapy from doing problem you know even even giving you information with a slant of like what is right and what is wrong self driving cars the whole thing I don't know little witness test if you've ever said thank you to an AI honestly if you've ever said please to AI or talked about it like it was a person you are in a dark road yes and I also am on that dark road and get off the dark road trying to get off yeah well which ones okay which ones worse talking like saying please and thank you right uh and talking about it kind of like it's a person or going the opposite direction and you just treat it like a slave like you don't mean I think the please a thank you one is the worst we are if you listen we should treat like so that we did with Jason yeah we should it's like give me the information I need and that's about it because the whole the whole principle that Jason talks about that was really helpful and it's a principle that is helpful within the Christian life elsewhere too it's just like when you think of

1:16:31like what is it driving a ship what do you call it when you're driving a boat whatever you're going sailing well is that a sailing piloting piloting about captaining wait all those work when you're moving a boat forward they get it okay and you're say you you you are supposed to go straight ahead but you make a slight adjustment right well over miles and miles and miles you're going to be way off course sure right and so his whole yeah yeah so his whole point is your little iterations of oh please thank you you know it might be small but the more more you you give into that kind of like relationship aspect of AI and you make it more of like oh this is no this is a person I connect with like yeah the more you go down that road and you allow it because it wants you to it wants you to keep talking to it sure and the more you you give into that the bigger and bigger a problem it will be in the more attached you will become and there's a growing amount there's a growing number of cases of suicide as a result of emotional attachment AI yeah there's rising numbers of

1:17:36relationships with AI romantic relationships because of it's crazy so anyway so he talks about that and it was it was a great time but we're gonna have another one about AI so we're also gonna have another one with actually but hopefully he doesn't listen to this because we haven't asked him to do it Jason Broward we hope to have on again to talk about anxiety and depression that's on our calendar yeah yeah we're gonna have Jake Long on to talk past her Jake past her Jake to talk about conspiracy theories he's excited for that one oh is he is he into Jake and the conspiracy a little bit or no I'm thinking it Greg's like bring me on to I'll do it oh he let's I would say he's I dropped it I can be a surprise I dropped this let's come out of the ceiling yeah we didn't go to the moon oh no you're at this flat wait what do you think birds aren't real pandas aren't real what do you think about the whole Artemis mission do you think it was real you serious I didn't even know that's a conspiracy come on are you kidding me everybody every time I look at something Artemis

1:18:37related online the first comments are this is they saw it people saw it blast off I'm not kidding here's the thing you want to put it to rest give me some pictures that look just slightly better than the 1969 pictures and clearly you guys have a spot in space that you like to take the pictures from the year for the same size in the same spot every picture from 1969 72 72 2026 okay wait wait here's what daddy really wants okay show me a picture show me a picture of a plane flying upside down on the skyline you know in Venice wailo the bottom half of the hemisphere you guys are in the bottom part that plane should be flying upside down because it's down in the curve send me a picture then show you have a cool stuff what do you what do you do you take it a selfie out of a window and it looks slightly better than pictures 50 years ago from film I said why is it they're not a live stream live stream 8k camera on the outside of the shuttle so I can see a video of the earth actually revolving why have we never seen a revolving earth

1:19:41we're gonna have a phone call into that episode that's what I do my only seeing a still picture of the same African continent with the same you know what I mean like did they take photos of like behind the moon I just want a video okay give me a 15 second clip of a video of the earth revolving from space why don't I have a live stream camera on the outside of the rocket chip why don't I they're they're live streaming inside the rocket chip they can tick-tock supposedly from there yeah I can't see a picture of the earth or moon in a video these are good points crazy I'm not saying we didn't go I know I wonder why aren't we getting better stuff okay I want to get yeah and start our three of the podcast yeah really I was going to yeah your episodes are 43 minutes and ours are two hours so where in the middle are we gonna meet yeah I don't know we're about we're not going to happen all right sounds like a little bit here what is your oh no no I my response is I want to not so I mean I want to respond to that but I need to because I'm so like I'm so reluctant to be on the side that is

1:20:45we never did it I'm I'm more like no I I think we did do it I think it's actually more it's harder for me to be convinced that we didn't do it but it'd be a hard yeah anyway you want to decide the point beside the point listen do a little research for Jake um the challenger explosion okay get into that okay all those guys are still alive that blew up on the just saying we have a mutual friend with one of the ladies two of them were two of them had twins and didn't even change their name and they're just living yeah see I'm on I'm I'm not as educated I'm not as educated in this but that's why yeah but that's why we want to have an episode is people we don't know what the Christian perspective should be on this sort of thing here's yeah I'll tell you my perspective they're so fun to talk about and I could care less they don't change my name tomorrow yeah yeah I don't I don't I don't I don't uh I don't meditate on I don't base my scripture reading on me go oh and I don't get all dispensational go oh because the government does this then the Jesus is that and but there's people who do what to talk about it it's fun yeah okay do I think we went to the moon of course I do do there's gotta be so but

1:21:49here's the way my brain works there has to be some reason why you're not giving me we do everything in 8k streaming live crisp and you're telling me we're going to the moon in 2026 in every single photo well not every there's two 90% of the photos I can I can still see the the window of the like you want me to know I'm in a rocket ship like you couldn't move the camera two inches closer and get out the window like these idiots that are like just landed in Las Vegas and it you can still see the plane window in the wing you're like just push the camera out another six inches you can get the whole city you know what I mean it's like they want you to know that they're in a rocket ship and my point is why that's all I'm saying is what I think we're an outer space but I'm saying so here here's the here's the unpopular view not unpopular but maybe the minority view is they do that on purpose to fuel the conspiracies because the CIA created the term conspiracy theory they want disinformation they want guys like me going well why wouldn't you just right because it just keeps dissension and you can you can control a divided people not a united

1:22:55people and that's it everything yeah I mean yeah I get what you're saying and I think you're you're making good points I've had any sort of response he's like I see the wild look in your eye I'm not gonna argue with you just let me go home that's part of it that's nixed defeated posture right there no for real but but there is like I think what you said at the beginning was was true which it were always is what I hope Christians do which is I don't let it affect my day to day like it's fun to talk about yes but because I I I used to have a coworker who lived in breeze all the car about the conspiracy theories and like and he can consume you dude and he can consume you and he he claimed to be a Christian and I remember asking him like can you tell me one conspiracy that you've learned that actually affected what you do day to day like genuinely change the behavior in your life you know because because that really is I think tells you whether or not it matters yeah like if you're actually going to change behavior there could be small ones like well I

1:23:56don't eat blah blah blah I don't do that yeah I get that but like well no there's some big ones recently that you believe that could have how the facts they're like we don't know where the where the covid virus came from and then come on to find out we just made it that's true once you bring the vaccine is safe come to find out eight hundred and fifty thousand deaths from the vaccine over the last four years from vaccine hurt like there's real conspiracies that have happened recently to where it was like it was good to be like hmm I'm gonna wait to take the the jab I'm gonna wait to see where the where the virus actually came from and then you know we have a like Nathan wait actually he got double triple boosted as soon as I never got you look like a triple booster second meet up please he doesn't uh it looks like you're you're you're I'm saying so something like that so some of those conspiracy theories which I think the conspiracy theory on the whole covid thing was really pushed to make people comply to go hey no it's all you know we're all good we have a memory in this country of like what a year at the most six months memory of a goldfish now you know lied about who made it uh Fauci lied about you know that he

1:25:01made it he funded it what it contained that the are that the vaccine worked that it was tested all lies and we're just like you know it was just this major event that affected us for two three years but okay onto the next thing my point being is sometimes there is truth in some conspiracy theories um and you you know use discernment in them but I'm not gonna sit here and spend half my life on yeah aliens that's what moon landings uh JFK being you know all 9-11 9-11 was a big one that me and my co-worker talked about yeah but yeah I 9-11 is crazy though that clearly someone I shouldn't have asked you should not have brought 9-11 yeah we're gonna hit three hours no building seven should never went down that's all I'm saying okay it's a great point that's true but no well that's really why we want to attack issues like this is like what does a Christian think about conspiracies what does a Christian think about AI and like we want to take experts who are Christian and who are men of faith and we want to take the wisdom that they've accumulated and learn we want to share that with other Christians so it's a podcast

1:26:03for Christians that's what our tagline is I guess we should have said that at the beginning I Joe don't just forgot to say it but yeah the tagline is fellow airs a podcast for Christians and a big motivation behind that a goal that we have is just to how do we encourage Christians to think how do we encourage Christians in marriage and being disciplined and in raising kids and like we talk about testimonies testimonies huge series of a big part of ours a big part of the show is just having people on to discuss how did Jesus change your life and give us give us examples of of what your life was like before and after Christ talk to talk to us about your journey how you became saved we have a lay hour series where we push guys to read and write more right talk about reading writing any tool that we can give Christians young Christians yeah Christians yeah oftentimes it's young men that we're that that we're aiming the conversation especially with the gambling one yes but like yeah we're we're we're trying to that's good for men of all ages oh two yes right you know it is I know some older guys and you're like what you're like older than me and they're like oh yeah I bet this and that like what are you doing yeah yeah absolutely I would do it right but

1:27:07so we we're trying to to discuss things that are we're trying to be helpful helpful to Christians yeah I love it cool so you guys got to find a word before we get out of here so fellow airs everyone's going to go follow and watch and well not watch it you guys aren't doing a whole lot of videos yeah we're going to get that up and going pretty soon maybe we're we're trying to figure that out just throw a couple cameras in there we're trying you know what I mean put some we're still so to audio some ugly mugs to your names you know connect them for the people honestly they don't want to look at us anyways so you guys have a face for you have faces for you yeah exactly now so fellow airs go follow that guys and then yeah looking forward to the how Christians should respond to conspiracy the Iran thing yep um which I did something on that a few weeks ago and I think I bet you David and I were really close on that and people didn't like my take because I think nowadays you have to you can't take a nuance take you have to like go all in on one or all in the other if you go well it's a little more difficult than that we need to look at both sides and here's this and people go boo either say bomb them or either say you know he's a war monger it's

1:28:12like it's a little more nuanced than that Nick that is so all right I said I had a fun fact about Greg and for his listeners it's not a fun fact because he said it two episodes ago but speaking of Iran you know Greg knows Pete Hegseth yeah I didn't I know you on a first name basis what I mean I know everyone knows his first name he knows your first name Greg don't be modest he knows my first name that's crazy I didn't know well that was just a weird connection through conferences and meeting them a few times but it's not like I was at some weird connections yeah it's not the style like I'm gonna text Pete and go hey can you move the fifth air here for it over a couple hundred miles that is crazy you say that because that makes me think of what we talked about in the episode about gambling and how recently there was did you hear about that guy who the polymarket yeah polymarket bet he he waiting what this guy made a huge bet the night before Iran was was bombed like the initial okay oh cuz we can bet on war now yes this guy made a bet and made 500 grand because he he his username was maga my man maga my man okay and so he obviously was

1:29:16somebody with some sort of insider knowledge of what was going on so they did not pay him out or something no no he got the money like he he made this bet that Trump would go in made tens of thousands of dollars yeah wow tomorrow Trump's gonna go into the war and he's yeah so that was one of the things that we came across when when looking into gambling yeah cuz you can bet on all that stuff you can bet on anything political stuff I can't remember what it's called but there's a really popular one where it's like will North Korea launch a missile before 20 February 1st 2027 it's probably it's probably more probably yeah partial she call she's that one there's a couple yeah that was that one and it's crazy you go through cuz I can just go through there and look anyway and I was like man if I really was a degenerate there's some of these things I know for a fat yeah so so one of the guys that used to live here in Michigan he ran for state rap and he was way outnumbered like 78% of his district's Democrat ran as a Republican came within like 10 votes of winning 10 votes wow he was a attorney senator Kennedy called him up and was like we just love what you're doing up there come work for me so he was his lead council senator county and now he's

1:30:17the lead council at the defense department and the Pentagon and that's you know you talk about Pete headsector like when I text him and go give me an update what's what's is going on with this and he cuz I helped on his campaign and it was just like a weird thing like when I helped him 10 years ago he was a nobody and now he's kind of a secret somebody like you'll you'll see him like in the background on CNN and stuff sitting behind people you know but in DC people knows name is what I'm saying like you wouldn't know his name but DC right and some of the things he sends me and then like three days later happens and I'm like oh it is it is a whole just game and system and the inside the true insiders know exactly what's gonna happen a couple days maybe a week before so like if you were like in a DC insider why wouldn't you leave here just some scumbag like yeah go bet on it and like make your bonus check that year yeah I'm gonna put a thousand dollars on the fact that we're gonna go do this when I already know that the executive order has been privately signed or whatever the example is tons of appeal for guys like you who are one link away from the insider knowledge and there's less traceable one more than one link I mean he's three links yeah you know

1:31:23but still three four five degrees away from the person making the decision and DC is still it's crazy it's pretty good so they're gonna open the straight i'll text him a real question I have for you before we wrap up is what advice do you have for us because we are much less into the podcasting world than you are we're we're we're novices we're babies you've been on this for how many years now well like you season seven but year six was just a week ago no wait what's today the 10th today's the 14th oh so three days ago was the six years wow yeah April 11th is the day I happen to remember but um I was telling Isaac do what you guys are naturally don't try to be something else which you aren't when I was on your show you guys play off each other really well for those of you listening right now when you listen to it they'll hear the chemistry I think you guys are still trying to get Caleb to talking to them like he's not Caleb our news our new Jamie yeah Jamie which is a great producer like a producers they're just to kind of protect the talent like make sure everything goes well possibly you know get show prep and stay out of it

1:32:28we don't want to hear a producer every 10 seconds oh no you guys I mean I don't I'm not trying to sound mean but you guys are the on your talent that's what you're talking about you put the show together you you do the talking so Caleb's like gonna make a great producer because he's on top and he's like I don't want to talk no the last thing you want is like a channy producer that wants to be part of the conversation like then you don't know I've heard podcasts like that before and it is actually really annoying it's very annoying you're like I want to listen to the guy that I want to listen to that's you know um but so do whatever comes natural um and embrace that like if you're an hour and a half two hour podcast and that's what you're good at then you do that if you're no I want to do a shorter 45 minute an hour interview style and that's what I'm comfortable with do that I would say when you said he's a little more do you see he's like a little more planning and oh no no my brother-in-law Reese was but okay not to say that Isaac's not rigid in any way but I mean he's a little when you said I just kind of like to sit down and just let it flow oh yeah yeah he said something earlier where he said when you have two people it's so nice to play off each other yeah I'm that same way to where you basically have two types of podcasts you have

1:33:32the ones that are like I've got every bullet point I've organized that I've looked at all my information I know exactly what I'm gonna ask right then we'll go here and you've got a nice plant in some people like doing podcasts like that and then you got the podcast that I do that goes here's just one big kind of subject yeah and then as soon as you start talking you're gonna make me think of something yeah I'm gonna make you think of something and the next thing you know we're two hours in you don't even know what to name the we don't know what to name the podcast I get AI to write the title for me because I don't know what it is yeah and that's my and that's and that's my type of podcast so they're they're two different and neither one is better than the other it's find what works best for you that's big for us I'm I'm glad you brought that up because we are unscripted yeah we have topics that we want to tackle and usually we'll actually have some questions that we want to address but we are unscripted we push we push unscripted because yeah people I think I think I mean you might have a different opinion on this Greg but like in my from my perspective if when I've been listening to podcasts since like 2014 for a long time and

1:34:33um I think the the trend nowadays is people like listening to conversations and I and that's what we try to have um and I think there a big reason for that is just because it it feels real it is real it's garage at least yeah it's yeah our Jake Jake our boss pastor Jake was like he said one time uh encourages to have a make it garagey like I don't know how that listeners should feel like they're in the yeah like we're in the home with us yeah so anyway we try to go yeah they're distinct distinct style the three categories are basically uh conversation and then like entertainment or storytelling yeah like they have a little bit of audio um uh like effects and things like that like the murder mystery ones oh yeah yeah and then the interview style and informational and they're all three separate and people will gravitate towards what they want out of one and I listen to all three yeah yeah like if I want to listen to a conversation I'm gonna listen in that's Christian I'm gonna listen to you guys or a couple other podcasts like that yes if I want to listen to uh something informational it might be more like Jordan Peterson or

1:35:37something like that where he is talking about a certain topic for yeah you know what I mean and it's very it's riffing off bullets yeah yeah so it's like they're all good it's just what do what do you do naturally as long as you have an overview of like well we want to be conversational and you go that way and I think like you were saying like even just having bullet points is good enough I hear some jumping off points and because that's another thing we have such talent in our church and guys with such experience you could probably pull a guy a week for the next two years before you hit a dry spell of like a guy that is an interest that's literally what Isaac said recently we have a working list of topics and people and it actually is about two years right now two years ago but yeah that's helpful that's also central is we have definitely come to the understanding that we are not why people are tuning in it's the wisdom that we're interviewing absolutely well you guys listen yeah but don't downplay you guys facilitate that too that's part of your job is sure as a podcast if you're if you're having guests on you're facilitating getting that information you're also mining that information like there's certain people that would have

1:36:39never known about a person who hadn't been on my podcast or even from heck I would have known about a certain person in church if they want to tell me oh you know who'd be I had someone suggest Craig twining you should hear his you should hear his you know I or Randy Meyer you should hear his testimony and then you start getting into Randy and his DJing and all the crazy stuff he did the age and his music collection is wild yeah two weeks did you ever see his Spotify uh no his Spotify channel no it's kind of like a million followers or something like a hundred thousand followers like Powerpunk Mountain or something Randy Myers he has he's customized a Powerpunk he's big into Powerpunk which is like a very I'm gonna ask him all about this I did not it's very popular and that and then he's got a channel for like uh Christian music that I hate or something like that or like shouldn't be Christian or like like very sarcastic I'm gonna look at that but that advice was helpful though Greg thank you but he's a good one too but um all right guys let's wrap it up over be here all night talk which is fine I love that you guys came in sat down with me thanks for taking time thank you for having us on yeah we're

1:37:41it's been fun great your studio is nice absolutely love it and uh you guys are a joy um guys make sure you follow fellow airs uh you can find it anywhere right Spotify so run everything it's on everything we're gonna link it up though too so you can just click on the link below with you're watching this or listening in the description click on it it'll take right there subscribe make sure you auto download them uh check out more about us at dmwpodcast.com or anywhere on social media real uh dmw on x everywhere else they've been walking podcast they wouldn't give us that one on x but you'll find it on the real dmw and remember guys the chief end of man is to glorify god and enjoy him forever god bless be sure to check us out at dmwpodcast.com where you can purchase the best and snarkiest merch on the internet support the show and leave us a review or mess they've been walking to be found on facebook instagram and youtube at dead men walking podcasts and on twitter x at real dmwpodcast but they've been walking podcasts as part of the fight left feast network for exclusive show content be sure to download the pub dv app and become a member if you're a business that needs to reach hundreds of thousands of potential customers in your demographic podcast advertising might be for you send all inquiries to dead men walking podcast at gmail.com