About this episode
Former Conservative deputy chairman Lee Anderson has defected to Reform UK, giving the party its first MP. Matt discusses the significance of the move with columnists Trevor Phillips and Libby Purves, and former minister Paul Scully.
Plus: In the latest Exit Interview, outgoing First Minister of Wales Mark Drakeford explains why he is standing down and why he had a difficult relationship with successive Tory prime ministers.
Lee Anderson joins Reform (03:13)
The Exit Interview (16:30)
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