The Eric Metaxas Show - #194 - Tammy Trent

0:00Hey, the folks welcome back. Uh, right now I have as my guest Tammy Trent. She's the author of a new book. Where are you now? God she's been a recording artist author of previous books the new book. Where are you now? God? Kind of a good question Let's get it now I'll pull the train It's fine. I'll talk again Tammy Trent welcome. Thank you Eric. I'm so glad to be with you. It's a tough question I think it's a question so many of us has carried throughout our lives. It's not a matter of if we'll ask it It's a matter of when we'll ask it and mine came at a huge cost at a huge moment in my life That probably my deepest wound and the biggest impact in my life when I literally was on my hands and knees sobbing saying God Where are you in this? How do I find you in this? How will I live? How will I survive this?

1:02How do I find God's presence in the worst moment of my life when you say this? I want to talk about what this is What it what it is for you what it was for you But the question where you know God it's it is a great question because I think if we're honest and a lot of people Cannot be honest. We can kind of have this religious veneer Until God in his severe mercy Breaks through the religious veneer and gets us to be honest and say Lord where are you now? I don't I don't I mean some people turn their backs on God completely Because it's so so painful so What was the event in your life? I'm tell us a little bit about yourself and about the event in your life some years ago that led you To ask this really really painful question Yeah, so I met this kid in my youth group when I was 15 years old we felt crazy in love I felt like a luckiest girl in the youth group because he chose me I was 16 allowed to date when I turned 16 and we went on the greatest adventure of my life

2:04I'd come from a broken home So I didn't really have that that male figure in my life that spoke into my life that covered me well That loved me well that was consistent and tell this young kid Walked into my life. So we dated seven and a half years. I went off to Bible College for one year Came back and thought I cannot live another day without this guy in my life So we got married or married for 11 years and in that time I signed my first record deal in 1995 And I took his first name as my last name Together we were Tammy and Trent Lendering, but as I travel in ministry. I became Tammy Trent I loved it. He left his family business He started partnering with me in ministry and managing me So we were on the road full time together every single day and we had a move here in Nashville And you know when everything feels right Eric in your life when you're like man all the pieces are falling into place I I know exactly where I'm supposed to be. I can hear clearly from God all as well He's doing everything. I'm asking him to do meeting me where I need like all the things

3:10And yet after 11 years I thought okay then what's next everything seems to be falling into place So what's next God what do you have next for us? We got a call to go to Jamaica on a mission trip It was a time in our life. We thought it's pivotal. I think this is where God's gonna speak and I had no doubt that Change was coming. I just didn't have any idea what it was and so what year what year was this that you took this trip to Jamaica? Well, Eric you won't you will not believe the day that this all landed on this was in year 2001 And it was in September of 2001 and we took off To do this mission trip we had one day off before we were to begin the trip And we went to a blue lagoon legendary place there in Jamaica and Trent wanted a free dive He'd been a diver since he was 12 so he wanted a free dive in the blue lagoon In the lagoon was a hole that went down about 240 feet deep and Trent wanted to explore He had his underwater scooter with him his wet suit on like he was ready

4:13So we had lunch there on the edge of the water. He suited up He said I'll be gone for 15 minutes and I'll be back He sunk beneath the surface air air that day and and he never returned He waved goodbye to me in that moment. I way back and he never returned He sunk beneath the surface and was gone My whole world shifted as 15 minutes turned into 30 45 into an hour and I knew something Is not right something is wrong. This isn't normal So I called in a dive team and they began to search for Trent through the night They found nothing and I went up to a home of two doctors that night that wanted to watch out for me And the next morning they said Tammy come into this room look at the television screen come here fast And I walked into that room the morning of September 11th 2001 So when the second plane was plowing into the twin towers in New York City I'm in this foreign country myself My people are asking what's going on? What's happening in America?

5:14I'm over here thinking what's happening in my world? America's falling apart My world is falling apart. You're Wondering where your loved one is and I don't know where mine is either and I just I sat in that ache and that Unbelieve the disbelief the confusion the hopelessness I was scared and it was just I didn't know what to do when I remember The search continued and I got a call that my family was grounded On planes all across the country so not one person could get to me Eric and I'm sitting or just thinking God where are you? Like like I feel like I've done everything right and and everything's going wrong and Then I got the next call that they had recovered Trent in the blue lagoon Something is struck him on the back of the head and he didn't survive it And I remember falling to the ground just crying just crying out to God like What do I do with this um? What do I do now? What do I do with my life like everything Just took a turn. I never saw coming and I don't know how to live. I don't know how to breathe

6:17I don't even know how to find you God in this moment and I think Eric that truly was The heartbeat of my life at that moment of just Feel like I've walked with God my whole life But here it came down to this wound this impact where I literally said for the Deepest time in my life like where are you God in this and how do I find you and I think that became my journey to try to find God in the middle of heartache Disappointment unmet expectations rejection grief Child trauma like all the things how do I find the fingerprint of God to know that I not won't just Survive but I can overcome this triumphantly like I could find an abundant life But how do I do that and I dug into this book found some answers And now my hope is to try to guide somebody else that just feels stuck or they've walked away from faith Because like you said people are like I'm out the promise didn't work for me. So I'm gone So how can I somehow say hang on a second just

7:20Let me share some things with you just to consider at least and let me show you where God showed up through real stories Real real Biblical stories real lives and so if he showed up for them He was a God who saw the God who drew near the God who never abandons then let's consider him in your story today Just like I had to do in mine I Mean I have to say you know a lot of people worship a God who doesn't exist that the happy clapping God that doesn't allow this kind of thing to happen It is very challenging For anybody I think this is the conundrum. This is the paradox at the heart of faith in the God of the Bible How could he allow this why would he allow this why would he let me twist in the wind let it and I think At some point or another Most people go through things maybe not as dramatic as what you did, but it's the same question I don't get it. I don't get it some I must have missed something because the God that I know Doesn't I don't think he would allow this or he would I don't get it and and that's that's the question is you know to ask where are you now God?

8:27How do I get through this Um, and I think it's important for us to be honest because I I know that there are people that walk away from God because they just go You know what whatever is involved. I'm out. I'm not interested in this. I just need to survive I I just need to to find a way To something and Whatever it was that I that I was hearing or whoever Whatever God that I think I was believing in I don't know that that God is there. I don't know who God is I mean these are deep honest questions and I think we we have to really be honest and say we can't even pretend like we found easy answers I mean you can't pretend that well here I just found the scripture verse and this solves the problem That's exactly gets solved in that way To lose the love of your life at that point in your life that haven't happened that way I think all of us who've been doing anything similar to that and we and many of us have tasted similar things We have to be honest and say we don't know when I get to heaven. I I assume the Lord will help me understand

9:34But right now I have to be honest and say I don't understand. I still praise his name But I am confused on some level. What where am I supposed to go with this? So so talk us through that because it's unimaginable What you've just described. I mean that is Just beyond beyond I mean you said something so honest a second ago and the truth is that sometimes we don't know the answer and You know, I don't even think the scripture says that that Jesus is obligated to tell us um What the answer is but what he does tell us over and over and over again that he is with us He is with us. He's not leaving us alone and it also scripture says like I didn't promise you there wouldn't be any trouble I didn't promise you this side of heaven that life would be easy But again, I'm I'm gonna walk through this with you So if you trust me with the pieces of this, I'm actually gonna work this out for your good So for me Eric, it's like I could have yes everything you just said is so relevant and is so honest and how so many people feel even people

10:40Like me that have walked out faith my whole life. I had every single thought In question that you just described and but for me some reason I said okay I've got to figure out the mystery of why God allowed this to happen There's something greater here because I know that he loves me Okay, if that's the foundation of my life, but that's not shaken. I know he wants good things for me So if I believe those things, let me put that aside Am I allowed to ask him questions? Okay, in scripture Jesus even cried out on the cross my god my god Why have you forsaken me? Okay, so I can settle in the fact that I can ask him questions. What would the questions bring me? I don't just like you said sometimes. I don't know what happened to Trent that day. I don't know ultimately Why has life was cut so short but 25 years later sitting with you here in this moment I can tell you be on the shadow but out I can trace the fingerprints of God in my life to see how things

11:40happened for a greater purpose beyond my own purpose I had a plan everything changed in a moment But if I settle into does God have a plan for my life? Is there a purpose? Yes, I believe that so what is it? And I can see the different places I've been the platforms I've been on where God has sent me to speak life and hope just as someone that says I'm stuck I have no joy, but something you said today Tammy It changed my perspective and when I think about the presence of God It's like God's presence is a truth Before it's an experience. It's a truth And what I mean by that is you can go through scripture talks about his presence being with us So you have to lock into what is truth? That's the foundation of your life truth You can't be chasing a feeling because our feelings come and they go So if you're looking at the presence of God and going I don't feel him today Well, then of course you have no foundation So you have to go to the truth of what his word says Matthew 28 20 surely surely I stand to you

12:42I'll be with you to the end of ages We can go into Hebrews where I will never leave you. I will never forsake you I'm always with you. I mean there's constant But Tammy this pre-supposed is yet this is why and this is important why Everybody has to make a decision Do I believe the word of God because there will come a time when my emotions my feelings Work against what is the word of God and I'm gonna have to choose at that point Do I go with my feelings which are powerful? Or do I go with what God has said and I think that this is the issue for for people If you're Feelings I mean I see this sometimes when I when I see you know Parents will say like oh my kids in this youth group and it's so great and they all love Jesus And there's a sort of front of me that says yeah, we'll see We'll see how much they love Jesus when it's not like the fun Thing and everything's great and when life challenges them. I hope that their faith is

13:44Solid I hope that they know who God is and it's not just based on this fun feeling with my peers Because that will go away just like in a marriage There's a honeymoon period and then you get into real life And then even the best marriage has hard moments and you have to decide Am I is married on the day that we're furiously angry at each other As I am on the day we got married like what is marriage? When when we live in a culture based on feelings This is really the the issue and so if you are Looted in the truth of God that that he exists. He is good. He loves me He died for me. He's with me if you if you at least know that you can cling to him In the midst of the pain, but if you don't know those things you will let go and and that's It's so important for people to understand that that every one of us Has gone through those moments where you just think like I I absolutely don't get this How can you allow this Lord? It makes no sense and on some level let's be honest

14:46No, some of these things make no sense. We we don't know from our perspective It is impossible to make sense of it and I think Yeah, maybe what I'm part of what I'm trying to say is like you have to be okay with that You have to say Lord. I honestly don't understand. There's a mystery. I look to you. I know what I know But there's a lot that I don't know and so I cling to what I know And you'll help me understand the part. I don't know or help me deal with what I don't know Because I know you're good, but that's so You know, and it's interesting even when you quote Jesus on the cross saying My god my god why has to offer sake in me most people forget He is quoting the whole song by by using that first line He is basically saying the whole song in other words that you have that feeling many of us have that feeling at a moment But then you go through it and you say no, but but God you're faithful you you allow me to experience that moment Where are you? But you are faithful and I have to work my way through that to the other side. So this is Yeah, this is something that it's so serious for every person

15:48It is a tough it is a tough topic and I think somehow you're exactly right and that's the place I had to get to Eric like I had to believe I had to believe the word I had to go back to otherwise I think I had nothing to hang on to and either I'm leaning on my strength to hang on to God or I'm leaning on his strength to hang on to me Because my grip is weak. It's gonna fall flat So so I had to believe and you're right it was a choice either I'm out or I'm gonna stick with him And I'm gonna try to find out some answers in this side of heaven I'll never know exactly what happened that day one day I hope to have a conversation with Trent and with Jesus and I'd love to hear that conversation But for now I say what do I have now? What's my perspective now? I can waste my whole life on what I don't have the sexual abuse in my life When I was a child that affected a lot of things watch my parents go through divorce I've been given a cancer diagnosis more than one time You know, I've thought rejection all these different things that I talk about in the book So how do I find God and all of these disappointments?

16:52Unmet expectations and if I put the work in if I actually and I'm not just talking like how boring to pull out the word of God and memorize scripture There's truth to that But there are other ways to walk with God Along with the importance of the foundation of his word and that's what I've had the lean on community Relationships my family My my relationship with God all of it has impacted my life in such a way that for some reason I keep getting up every day And I still feel punched in the gut air. There's there's a heavy weight That comes with carrying a wound. There's a heavy weight that comes with disappointment when you've lost a child When you're 70 years old and your husband or your wife says I want a divorce. I'm out It's a heavy weight when life changes. So yeah, you say God Where are you in this? I didn't see this coming And a lot of times for me it's easy to say you could have changed this but you didn't why And I think I've learned a lot of times like that didn't do this Tammy

17:53God didn't do this. God. I didn't cause this But what he does say is I'm a redeemer our store Trust me. Let me pick up the pieces of all these things that have broken in your life All the tears you've scattered around let me collect all of them and if you trust me I'm gonna draw near and I'm gonna I'm gonna show you something beautiful in the ashes of your life because I'm always at work There's never a time. I'm not at work in your life I'm always there and I think we're so quick to think that he's not listening Because we're praying the same prayer over and over and over again And it's just getting us nowhere. So we think he's out. He's not listening But sometimes his delay Is preparation in our lives sometimes there's always a reason for delay we go back to the story of Lazarus like he could have showed up when they asked him to Mary Martha like why didn't he there's always a reason Jesus has a reason for everything. It's hard to understand Yeah, that's the part you have to know and trust Today's show is brought to you by grace precious metals in an industry that can be confusing

18:56Grace believes in doing business differently with Christian values Transparent pricing and a focus on straightforward gold and silver bullion not high markup collectible coins They even publish their spreads directly on their website so you can see the numbers before speaking with anyone Learn whether physical precious metals may fit your financial plans at metaxis metals.com. That's metaxis metals.com Well, that's it reminds me of When I was my my reason book on the American Revolution. There's a story of The death of Dr. Joseph Warren. He had just turned 34 years old And he was the leader of the movement people forget his name He was the leader of the movement outrageously talented He's killed at the beginning of the beginning at the battle of bunker hill and people are just out of their minds. How How do we go on? This was our leader taken out taken from us. Where do we go and Samuel Adams who was really

19:59He is just one of the great figures of that era He he kind of in a letter to somebody. He sort of rebukes them and he basically says It's our duty to submit to the dispensations of God in other words. Yes We're in pain. Yes. We have questions, but be careful You don't judge God. God judges you be careful Uh to understand God's ways are not our ways. God is God. He gave us life And and that is something that I think in our feelings focused world We forget we kind of act like we have the right to judge God or to be angry at God and I think we have to be careful Because God is a loving father But he he is our heavenly father And the idea that we know better if only God had done this or this or this we don't know Much We don't know much. We know when we're in pain. We're in pain. We're honest But we also know God loves us in the pain and to demand answers or to say if I don't get answers if I don't get the answers

20:59I want I'm out. Well, then you don't really know God Because that's exactly right that that's that's kind of the issue God wants you to know him so that you yeah You hold on to him in the midst of the difficulty Yeah, not just know of him many people know of a God But knowing him intimately is a whole other thing It could change the trajectory of your life if you can recognize the voice of God Recognize His presence and know it For me it's changed everything and I'm so grateful for it when I stood on the edge of the water When everything shifted and changed Man, I've gotten angry. I've cried out. I've asked every question I didn't want to keep showing up Eric. I didn't want to keep singing I don't want to keep writing songs. I don't want to write a book I don't want to host a TV show. I don't want to do anything. I just I just felt the ache heavy deep in my heart and I took a year off

21:59And I sat and I just said God what is healing even look like walk me through this I don't even have any idea what I'm supposed to surrender what am I supposed to let go of I don't even I don't even know because I feel like I've lost to everything so what more could I let go of And I think the the thing I got to this place of just Feeling like God was just saying I'm with you. I feel this with you. I feel the emotions But just keep showing up Tammy and when you keep showing up. I'm gonna keep revealing a little bit at a time You'd probably love the big picture, but I can't give it to you right now But just keep showing up and I promise that I'll keep revealing a little bit at a time and you will see At one point I promise you you will begin to see Purpose in your pain and Eric 25 years. I'm telling you I've seen it. I've still kicked and screamed I still have the tears when I talk about it But God's brought great healing in my life But it's been a genuine walk for me I tell people honestly that I've had every question that I've gotten angry at God that I have questioned

23:02This plan is awful. I'd suck. I hate it. You know all the things And yet I can still see the goodness of God. So keep showing up keep talking to them stay in relationship with them Get to know him and again his presence will be the very thing to carry you through with the next storm of your life You know, it's part of what you you said a few moments ago And this is key. I think there are a lot of people they think of themselves as Christians But they are intellectual Christians or theological Christians They haven't had an experience with the person Of Jesus and I think this is a key thing as I want to say to anybody listening God wants you to know him personally not to know about him not to agree with his principles to know him personally and if you don't Ask him to reveal himself to you ask him however He chooses to reveal himself to you so that you have a personal

24:03relationship With him because I think when you have a personal relationship with him It really changes everything of course. We're made for personal relationships. We're made by God in his image For personal relationships and so a lot of times people have a theological construct They're worshiping this theological construct That's different. We need to know God personally viscerally In a human way and and there are a lot of people that they they haven't gotten there yet And I simply say to them just ask God humbly In a heartfelt way to reveal himself to you By reading the scripture that you can help that process But that really is the key is this personal Relationship with God not just agreeing with Christian principles We're saying why no God exists whatever well the devil knows God exists God wants you to know him and love him And that's a big that's a whole different thing And I think that that's that is what got you through

25:04It's what gets me through Various pains and questions is that you say Lord, where am I going to go? I know you I know you and I'm just going to I even in the in the difficulties Which are real for I think anybody that walks through life You're going to have various kinds of difficulties and many of them you won't share publicly But God knows and he he wants to be there for us personally In that And and I know that that's I mean I'm I'm I think God talking to you that you had that when you went through this horror that you had that Yeah, and I think you know another thing to encourage people That I needed to is is just because you're your your go your faith feels fragile Just because you're doubting asking the questions. It's not a failure of your faith Some people think I have failed that faith. I'm not good at the God thing I have too many questions My faith is fragile. It's shaken a lot. So I'm not good at it. So I should probably just try something else

26:10But I'm telling you it does not mean your faith less if you are asking the questions in fact I think it's an invitation to actually draw nearer To Christ and to get to know him ask the questions It have the doubt if you have them all like bring them honestly before God bring These doubts you have bring the fears bring the anxiety to the prep all of it and find out what God says about being in the middle of it with you So that you're never alone you are not isolated and yes It is getting to know the heart of Christ and the only way you can do that is to dive into the word of God yourself So find a translation that you understand don't let it be an excuse like it used to be for me when I When I pick up the word and go I don't get what it's saying it's so many these those whatever I found a translation that was still true to the word that didn't change it But something I understood and I'd maybe grab a devotion that actually I'd start there And I'm like oh, and then it gives me scripture then I go back to a reference it and go okay Now it's making sense, but I often prayed God

27:13As I open up your word reveal like reveal to me not just like you said Eric just not just theologically in my brain and stuff and But reveal something in my heart make it make sense so that I can finally connect the dots So that I don't have to be bound by this my whole life I'm angry. I don't believe in you all the things that I want to believe in something So I would say start there start By asking the question seeking God not letting the enemy of your soul the devil the enemy of your soul Who hates you that has studied you that knows you and he's trying everything to keep you From believing that God has good things for your life So if you can set that stuff aside all the voices somehow get past them and listen to God's voice start there Just start there today and I promise you as you dig into things even with my book You're like hey, I don't want to I don't want to read the Bible Honestly, I wrote this book even as a guide for people that say I don't know where to start I'm going to help you let me help you start a journey with God

28:16To finding him in the middle of your life story right now so that you can have an encounter with God like maybe you've never had before Well, this is what it's all about so folks the title of the book. I should have mentioned more often where are you now God The author's Tammy Trent, but but that question where are you now God? I know again. I know there are people Maybe they have a sort of relationship with God God is when you have a sort of relationship he really wants all of you He loves all of you and he wants all of you because he wants to bless all of you He wants to walk with you and he wants he wants to help you make sense of your life because our lives cannot make sense apart from him That's the headline your life cannot make so he is the meaning of your life. Jesus is man And so you need to know that And so I think that I hope your book will be a path For folks listening who they are they're just lost enough to say I think I'm missing something you are missing something

29:21You you want don't want all of you That's his plan for you if you want to know this is plan for you And so I hope that That a lot of folks listening right now what we'll get a copy the book where are you now God um and and Tammy right now What are you doing with your life? I mean you you're writing books But what what what goes on with you when you're not talking about the most important question in the world Yeah, exactly So I live in Nashville here. I love my home. It's the home Trent and I built together our first home together I'm still in the same house 26 almost 27 years later and I love it It brings me great peace, but my whole life is here my community is here My church my friends um, I co-host a television show in Dallas. So I fly back and forth whenever I'm needed It's called life today with James and Betty Robinson So I'd been doing mission work for them for about 17 years and so I started shooting some shows with them and I love them so much and of course James

30:23Just went to heaven a few months ago. So Betty has stepped up and done incredible things incredible woman of God So yeah writing the book. This is the newest adventure of my life at the moment I still make music today. I speak at women's conferences all around the world So even today Eric I'll be speaking at one church home here tonight at a women's event Which I consider my home church and I and I love a pastor Steve burger and Sarah burger Or whom I consider my pastors here in Nashville. I love them so very much So I'm really involved in in my community here But then I get on a flight tomorrow. I had to Canada. I speak at a church Sunday morning and then I do 100 Huntly Street television on Monday. So there's a lot going on now So my prayer is even like Lord let me just sit in the let me just sit in this space and enjoy where you have me but Life for me is ministry and loving people and speaking hope Every assignment God gives me not just on a platform, but if I head to home depot today You better believe I'm going to look for a moment to tell somebody gosh how are you doing and how's life and it always comes up

31:29About me being widowed and people are like what what happened and so I share a brief story But it always leads to the conclusion when I say But God has brought great healing in my life Unbelievable praise the Lord well I knew you knew the burgers. They are dear friends. I love them Tammy Trent is the author of where are you now God I as the author of books. I know you can get that anywhere where or you know God Uh, Tammy Trent. What's your website is it just your name? It is just Tammy Trent.com and you're right Trent.com the new book actually drops. I think it September 1st you can go on Amazon you can get it wherever you buy Books and I'd be so honored if you'd pick up a coffee Tammy Trent author of where are you now God? Thank you so much Tammy God bless you. Thanks Eric God bless you. See you My pillow second annual mega sale is finally here get our patented premium my pillows

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