The Docket Ep. 1201: Arkansas v. Aaron Spencer pt.1

0:00How far would you go to protect your child? I want you to think about it. How far would you go to protect your child? Would you call the cops and wait? Would you trust the system to handle it? And what if the system had already failed you? Well, tonight we're talking about Aaron Spencer, who's 37-year-old army that father of two, living on a farm in Lotto County, Arkansas, in July of 2024. Can you hear that echo? Yeah, a little bit. Oh, never tiny bit. Just a little bit. For me, it's full blast. Damn it, that was a good one. Gosh, that was so close. It was such a good, someday we will get the cold open. And for now, we're going to... I was like, in that, I'm just going to click it. Intro, ready? Let's go. Let's go. What is up, beautifully humans?

1:25I am Bob Mata. I am the host of Defense Diaries Podcasts. And as always, I am joined by my beautiful and brilliant co-host, Allie. What's up, girl? Hey, babe. Hey, all. So, yeah. I jacked it up again. And see, I had a YouTube... I had our channel from the stream that you just got off of with Katna Williams regarding the Zach Adams case, which everybody needs to dig into. That case is insane. It gets weirder and stranger and crazier and just so more outrageous with every detail. It really does. It is. Yes, Katna Williams and the trial and error podcast, I know what I'm going to be listening to tonight. For sure. Like, they have done amazing work, and they're... I really like them. They're both really genuinely good people. So we're talking a little bit about Aaron Spencer because I thought I heard you say something about it. I was about to get into it.

2:26So here's the deal. If you're not aware of Aaron Spencer, he is a 37-year-old Army vet father of two living on a farm in Lowenthal County, Arkansas, back in July of 2024. His 14-year-old daughter, now 14-year-old daughter, revealed that she had been essayed by a 67-year-old creep named Michael Fossler. He was a man that she had met through a mutual family friend. Spencer did everything right on the outcry. Like, did everything right. Now, there's going to be some evidence the state fought to get in and the judges letting it in in terms of some body-worn cam footage that came from the day that he found out, which was early July. You're relevant. No. You're right. Exactly. It is irrelevant. The judges are allowing it in because his initial instinct was, give me the guy's name.

3:27I'm going to go handle shit. Like, I'm not waiting around for the cop. And then within a half an hour, they talk them down. And he cooperates with the cops. Just like that. Let's the system do its work. Fossler gets arrested. He gets charged with 43 counts, ranging from essay of a minor, internet stalking of a child, C. Sam. And then, judges says, okay, sir, 43 felony counts. I'm going to set your bond at 750,000, no, not quite. I just wanted 50 grand, 10% to apply. All he had to post was 5 grand, walks out of court. Three months goes by. The guy starts grooming, Aaron Spencer's daughter again, the grooming started well before he just picks up again, right? But he just continues is, you know, gets her hooks in her, I mean, I'm going to assume

4:34that there was like a little, a little cooling off period as far as like him getting out. But I don't know. Maybe not. He just picked it right back up, the minute he walked out of the, I don't know, we don't know. Maybe we'll find out a trial. And anyway, he's out on jail. He starts grooming again. She ends up in his truck that night. Aaron Spencer and his wife Heather are woken up by a barking dog in her room. They get up. They go into her room. They think they see her sleeping in bed. They pull the covers back. It's a hoodie with a stuffed animal in it. Oh, shit. She's gone. I call 911. I'm getting out in the truck. Come out and open the gate. She's on 911. He takes off. He's turning off of his rope. This is rural Arkansas, okay? As he's turning on to the road that he's leaving his road from, he sees Michael Fosser's white F-150 turning on to his road. Aaron throws you, starts chasing him, honking, flashing the lights.

5:37What the fuck are you doing, all that shit that you'd be doing? Six mile chase, finally Spencer gets behind him, does a pit move, hits the back corner, gets him off the road. I think he hits like an electric pole or a telephone pole. Car, the vehicle stopped. He sees his daughter and there he's screaming for her to get out. She's not moving. He's telling Fosser, let my daughter out of the car. She's still not moving. If the father of my child doesn't do at least that much, I'm divorcing his limp ass. So Aaron gets out. It's Arkansas. I think you can carry there. He's got his peace. He doesn't know what's going on with his daughter. He's assuming the worst, like anybody would, Fosser gets out. Instead of his daughter getting out of the truck, Fosser gets out. Aaron states he thinks he sees something in his hand. Back and forth screaming, he doesn't know what he's going to do. He doesn't know what Aaron puts 15 in him.

6:38And then for good measure jumps on top of him and pistol whips the shit out of his face, calls 911. Yeah, I got this guy who's been saying my daughter. He had her out of my house at 12.30 now, one o'clock in the morning. He's dead now. You might want to come get him. So they arrest him, charging with second degree murder. The trial starts unbelievably on the 26th of January. Allian are going to be their boots on the ground. We're going to be reporting every day, telling you exactly what's going on in this bombshell case. Incredibly important case. It's that case where sadly it's not getting the coverage it needs. But I'm hoping that we'll wear their boots on the ground and when we're talking to people, we're doing our lives, man on the street, woman on the street stuff. We're going to pick up a lot of steam on it because I want this case out to the public. People should give a shit about this case. This guy's a hero. He's not a criminal.

7:38This wasn't vigilante. This was a guy trying to save his daughter's life, doing everything that he needed to, which begs that question I asked at the very beginning. How far would you go to protect your kid? I'd go as far as Aaron Spencer, at least I like to think that I would. And I'd damn well demand my man would go as far as Aaron Spencer. I mean, you fuck up my people, you're going down. It's pretty simple. It's always been my rule. All right, so this is where we're at in the case. Almost everything has been litigated to this point. If you've been following our coverage, which we've had a lot of Aaron Spencer lives, we've tried to go through all the pleadings. Most recently we had the motions in lemonade that were up and the motions in lemonade were litigated. I would say the state won a vast majority. We felt that there were a couple of wins in the last particular set of motions. But the one that really mattered to me, which, which, Ali and I, I think initially, Ali was like, I don't see, like, I'm kind of with the judge on this before our live when

8:41we were having a discussion about that. I wasn't with the judge. I just, and I still battle between the two feel like the defense, like it's, it's my, it's my third party thing with Karen Reed with you. Like it's not about what really happened. It's about what he thought happened. So focusing on why she walked out of the house and making it more important, like it's somehow dependent on his guilt or not. That's now why I wanted in. Right. But to me, that's why I'm, that's why I'm like this with it. You see what I'm saying? Obviously. I'm a serious saying. You see your points and a lot of the chat has agreed. And then I saw questions like, wait, did she leave the house willingly? So it's like, all right, I guess we do have to explain this. But to me, it should, it, it shouldn't matter. And there should be a motion to exclude the fact that whether she did or did not leave with him, because it doesn't matter. Well, you know why I'm 100% with you there.

9:43I told you where my clock starts in terms of this legal analysis. It does not start with when he left the house, it doesn't start when he realizes that she's not it. Because at that point, it's only speculation. It's worst, worst fears, okay? She's with the creep. That's what you're thinking. You don't know it. Right. When he knows it, when he sees her, when he's ships passing in the night and fosters turning onto his street and he sees his daughter in truck, the clock starts right there in terms of the legal analysis in terms of was he thinking the way that a reasonable person would think in that situation, that's when the clock starts for me. That's not what the state's putting on here. The state is putting on the whole, this guy's a vigilante. This guy basically set this shut up to draw Fossilor into, luring his kid out so he could put him down. That's our theory on it, you know, or it's going to be worse. It's going to be, oh, she lured him with her, her skimpy clothes, they're actually contemplating

10:51victim blaming a 13 year old girl for luring a 67 year old creep into essaying her. I mean, the states, like, honestly thinking about this, I mean, they're, they're, they've called it a relationship. This is the clock has to start when he knows Fossilor's a creep. So there you go. Right. But Hobbs point is that night when his kid leaves, he doesn't necessarily know that Fossilor has her. So he's not putting things together until he sees them in the truck. Right. I mean, the counter, Michael's argument, I'd say, okay, yeah, because Michael's saying the minute in July that he finds out that this guy did this to his kid, that's when the clock starts. That's what the state argued. Yeah. The state got that in. They're getting in his statements, but they're trying to push a vigilante narrative. And this is not a vigilante case. I'm sorry. It's not. No one will ever convince me of that. If it was a vigilante case, he would have killed him the minute that he bonded out and

11:55said, Hey, man, you know what? I gave your shit a shot. I tried it. Like, and you let him walk out on 43 felony counts on five grand. Now he's creeping around town. So, you know, if he had done that in like a very short time frame after he gets out three months later, I'm sorry. And if Fossler's not taking his kid or was at that point, there's nothing to the point that I was getting to with this expert, this expert, and I think in the last live I talked about this. So my father's 80. My father was the chief public defender in the felony division in Cook County. So over 26 in Cal, the house of pain, the real house of pain. I hear about other little places getting called housing. This is the city of Chicago where the worst of the worst come. All the felony cases. My dad was the lead public defender in that room. And I asked my dad sitting there 80 years old.

12:57We were telling him about the Spencer case. I'm like, Dad, you know what grooming is, you know, he may have said some shit about his hair. I'm like, no. Like in the context of like essay, he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like what is that? I'm like, well, it's this, you know, and I, and I give him kind of a baseline of what it is. Point being, if they have anybody over the age of maybe 50, who does not engage in and watching true crime, they are going to have no fucking idea what grooming is. And if they're familiar with what the phrase means in the broad context, they are not going to know exactly the power that the groomer has over their victim. Yeah, the psychology behind it. So like all of it matters for this judge to have pretended like essay was not a part of this case was insulting to the intelligence of every single person in that county.

14:03And it was just absolutely mind blowing to me that she wouldn't even hear out the expert. And then we saw we, in our last live, we went through her order where she did a corrective order. She's like, Oh, I got, I got this filing from Aaron Cassinelli. Wait, did we do a live on that one or did you and I just read it? I don't think so. Maybe. I don't think that we did, unless you did a live without me, I don't think we did a live where we told the people that the judge said what she said. All right. Hold on. Let me see. I'll let you all know because like those of you while he's looking for that, I just want to note something. Okay. Because I looked this up, researched it for our, our previous live and unfortunately I started in Indiana because my mind just wasn't with me that this is in Arkansas. But I was just, I was researching and there was a case there that dealt with self defense

15:03case and whatever the fact pattern, the state was arguing, well, this should be harmless error, meaning like even though there was an error, whatever the error was, it's harmless because you know what? This guy shot the victim six times. That's not self defense. And the, and this is a, and the court said, and this is a 2007 case. And I, I mentioned this because here as Bob said, he shot him 15 times and people were like, oh, that's not self defense. And I've given the example on other lives that if, if you picture like a horror movie, you know, like you're being terrorized by someone, maybe they terrorized you once before and then they've been stalking you and in and out of your house, whatever. And now, and you really want to kill this guy. Like if you had an opportunity, you'd be like, I want to kill this guy. And he comes into your house and he's killed one of your kids and he's got one of your other kids and he's coming at you with a knife and you shoot a hundred times.

16:06That does not make it not self defense. Like this, this animal was about to slaughter you. And the fact that you secretly would have wanted to kill that person also doesn't change the fact that it's self defense. So now, turning to this case, the court there said, moreover, we do not find the fact that six shots were fired to be dispositive of a harmless error claim in light of our Supreme Court's observations in another case. The extent of the victim's injuries do not necessarily disprove the claim of self defense. We declines the state's invitation to apply the harmless error doctrine here. And they reverse the conviction. And I read other cases like that where they said the extent of the injuries to the victim is not what, what, you know, per se can prove or disprove, I mean, disprove self defense because you over killed, you did whatever.

17:06I mean, sometimes it's, it's warranted. Sometimes it's out of fear. Sometimes it's out of, you know, anger, but even if you're shooting out of anger, it doesn't mean that, that it's not defending self defense of yourself or others and that it's not legally justified. But now I have to keep talking because you're good, sorry. You would have done great, babe. I would have figured out. Talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. All right. So that's all the things I had to say. Well, you crushed it. All right. So I want to pull up. I think, I think you're right. I do not think that we covered these two. They're very brief. In general. All right. So, oh, and, you know, we've got the supergift on tonight, but it's for a good cause. So Allie and I are going to be down there. We're either driving or flying. I haven't decided yet. I've been flip-flopping on what to do there. But we're going to be down there for, we don't know how long and which means we're leaving

18:10all of our children behind, leaving my poor, poor father behind. And we're going to be boots on the ground. We're going to report every day on what went on in court. I'm having the Delphi flashback nightmares that I didn't even have to deal with. But I saw the people that did. She gave, she put out the order. She's allowing 20 people and that's media and observers for jury selection, which in this case is critical. It's always critical. But no one ever goes, in my opinion. I hope Allie's right on that, on that count. And then 55 total people allowed in the courtroom inclusive of the attorneys, their staff, the families for both sides, the media, and observers. So 55 total seats in there. So I'm hoping against all hope that we both can get in because I really need the extra

19:13hands and eyes because I want to get it all down. Like there's nothing in this that I want to miss. You know, if one of us is getting up at 4 in the morning to get in the line, we know who it is. Come on. This guy. No. What? What? Wow. I mean, you're really selling me short, girl. I would definitely do that. No, you would need, you would, I guess we'd alternate. In 1985, I'm going to tell one bear story and then we'll move on. In 1985, I was a freshman in high school. That was the last time the bears won the Super Bowl. I asked my dad. I said, Dad, the bear's tickets are going on sale at the ticket master. This is back when you had to, like, the weren't computers. So you literally had to go. You literally had to go down to a ticket master and physically wait in line for concerts and sporting events.

20:13So this is the bears going to the playoffs and it was for the NFC championship game. So the bears had already beaten the giants in the divisional playoffs and they're playing the Rams. And so ticket manager, like we all knew that this is when the tickets were going on sale. So I told my dad, I'm like, Dad, can I go spend the night out? And wait for these, these bears tickets, middle of winter, Allison, middle of Chicago, weather like this. I brought my ass out there alone, alone. Now granted, it was only in North Riverside Mall, but still it was pretty scary. And there were like, there were like, I was 14, 14 very much, maybe 13. If we keep going, maybe I'll be 11, maybe I'll be 11. I was like, wait, you said 85. Yeah, 85. So I was like 13, maybe going on 14 here, the year hadn't changed yet. Like it was in maybe 13, whatever, whatever I was young, I was young.

21:15I mean, math is math, but come on. I mean, like no one's letting their kids do that these days, that age. So let me rate, I'm out there all night waiting for the tickets, got the tickets, went to the game, bears went to the ball, took it down. So I am willing to do it. I don't like doing it, though, that is true. Allie will, she'll get up and get a line though. She ain't playing, she ain't playing. But I don't know if there's any kind of like line holding. Maybe there's not going to be a line. All right, you're not going to be a line. Well, I think it bears would be, so anyway, we've got the supergrip going on. Anything that you guys are willing to donate to us, we will be using towards our potential week plus down in beautiful low-node County, Arkansas, the hub of metropolitan life. And we will just be bringing you everything that we can in terms of content. And it's going to be great. We're looking forward to. I really, as much as I hated the outcome of Richard Allen's trial, obviously,

22:20the concept of sitting on this side of the bar, which will be the first time that Allison does it from front to back. It's a different experience for, for an attorney to do it when you're watching it all, you know, because I've sat in and you've probably popped in on trials. They're going on our county for like half hour. I was just going to sit and watch it 20 minutes from beginning to end. It's never, right? So donate what you can. We'll appreciate it. We'll be obviously in Venmo's always better, just so you know, and we have the Venmo pinned to the top. I saw like a super grifter has their Venmo that scrolls across the bottom of the screen constantly. How do you feel about that, babe? I like it. I don't hear you say, no, we're not that's, that's a super grift. That's outrageous. Okay. So one of the motions that was filed or one of the events, oh, sorry. Yeah. One of the motions that was filed was there was initially a motion to

23:21try to get some shit in about fossil or about what a creepy is. Now, we, Ali and I told you that's not going to be allowed. They filed a motion reconsider. And now this is the order in relation to the motion re reconsider that was filed by the defense. So before the court is the defense's motion to reconsider, for reconsideration of the court's prior order limiting admission of reputation and opinion evidence concerning the deceased after review of the motion in the court's order, court denies reconsideration of the court's order. Ali went through this with you guys pretty, pretty thoroughly on our last live in terms of what's allowable and they're allowing only things that happen in low note, which is really weird, that, that Aaron would have been aware of. Because in this situation, in this situation, if I'm Aaron Spencer, if I'm Heather Spencer, I'm trying to figure out everything that I can about this guy as soon as I find out that he had done this to my

24:24daughter in the day of the internet, it's, it's a lot easier than it ever used to be to figure shit out about people. So to me, it's like, this is like an old, timey decision that doesn't take into consideration the reality of the world that we live in now and the technology that it's a finger tips. Because if it become, it's the same concept as used as saying that I was cheating, playing trivial pursuit, when I had committed an answer that I had learned in a different, different game playing session, maybe a year ago, when I got that question prior, and I remembered the answer, that's not cheating. That's something that is now part of my knowledge base because I remember it. Are you listening? I can tell you listening. Right. Yeah, because you're, because like you were cheating. That's not cheating. I'm kidding. Don't hate me. Don't make me flame throw you right now with our true. Yeah, please just don't, babe. Let's move on. Hey, all Bob here.

25:25You know, starting something brand new, isn't just hard. It is absolutely terrifying because so much work goes into this thing that you're just not entirely sure whether or not it'll work out. And it could be hard to make that leap of faith. Trust me. I know when I started defense diaries, I had no idea how to make a podcast. I'm also thinking, well, what if no one listens? What if people hate my content? What if I make a fool out of myself? All of these things were running through my mind. But at the end of the day, now I know that I was right in believing in myself and launching defense diaries despite all those fears and hesitations. And you know what else also really, really helps. It's when you have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Now you may be asking, well, Bob, how does Shopify help? Well, Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world

26:30and 10% of all e-commerce in the US from household names like Jim Shark, untucked, rare beauty to brands that are just getting started. They can help you get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready-to-use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. Now, what if people haven't heard of my brand? You're thinking, well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. And you're thinking, well, what if I get stuck, Bob? Well, Shopify's got you there too. Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24 hour, seven-day-a-week customer support.

27:33So you know what that means? It means that it's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash dd as in defense diaries. Go to shopify.com slash dd that's shopify.com slash dd. Hey, all Bob here. You know, starting something brand new isn't just hard. It is absolutely terrifying because so much work goes into this thing that you're just not entirely sure whether or not it'll work out. And it could be hard to make that leap of faith. Trust me. I know when I started defense diaries, I had no idea how to make a podcast. I'm also thinking, well, what if no one listens?

28:36What if people hate my content? What if I make a fool out of myself? All of these things were running through my mind. But at the end of the day, now I know that I was right in believing in myself and launching defense diaries despite all those fears and hesitations. And you know what else also really, really helps. It's when you have a partner like shopify on your side to help. Now, you may be asking, well, Bob, how does shopify help? Well, shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US from household names like Jim Shark, untock it, rare beauty to brands that are just getting started. They can help you get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style.

29:38Best yet shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. Now, what if people haven't heard of my brand? You're thinking, well, shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. And you're thinking, well, what if I get stuck, Bob? Well, shopify's got you there too. Shopify's always around to share advice with their award winning 24 hour, seven day a week customer support. So you know what that means? It means that it's time to turn those what ifs into with shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial two day at shopify.com slash dd as in defense diaries. Go to shopify.com slash dd that's shopify.com slash dd.

30:42The sun shining birds are singing and all feels right in the world. Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year. At the American Psychiatric Association foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round. Please visit mentally healthy nation.org to learn more. All right. So after review of the motion and the courts or the court denies reconsideration of the courts or the order stands is written. The court reaffirms is prior ruling. Okay, you just said that the order is entered to clarify the record and preserve the court's evidentiary rulings for trial and appellate review. So that we have, right. But we have found out since that are able to confirm that he is allowed to get

31:44in all of the assault stuff that he's been charged with that he knew about. And the biggest thing that was strange was that they're trying to limit reputation evidence and character evidence to the community. Like Bob said in low note and on our last live, I read you even law out of the Arkansas, you know, circuit that it used to be, you know, that's specifically says where they live or have lived. That's even before the adoption of the of the rule. And there's been so many federal court cases that have said, all right, we've got to expand the definition of community given how mobile we are, how people work and live in different places, how, you know, so it's a bizarre ruling to me. It's a bizarre ruling to me. It is. I agree. Christine Fortu-Nato, if you come and watch our coverage of the Zach Adams trial, it will be picking up tomorrow.

32:47I will see you happy birthday. But but happy day before your birthday day. Happy day before the day before your birthday day. It's her birthday's on Saturday. Yeah. Well, it depends where she lives. It might already midnight. If she's over in, yeah, then she probably would have said tomorrow. Well, maybe all right. Okay. So this is the next thing that came down now. This was a very strange order. Okay. And when we read it, we're like, oh, like I ended up being right on it, but it's a really weird order. So this is an order addressing defense counsel's assertion regarding opportunity to be heard on expert witness. Okay. So on the record before the court is defense counsel's assertion that the court did not allow a hearing or otherwise denied the defense an opportunity to present or argue the admissibility of an expert witness intended to testify regarding, quote, the dynamics of child essay in this homicide case. After review of the record, the pleadings and proceeding,

33:51the court following makes, right. She forgot to work like me and her typos are, I'm not here for it. You're the judge. You know, if like she's typing at shame on her, it's her cleric shame on her for not reading what her clerk typed either way. So the court makes the following findings and rulings, finding a fact prior to the omnibus hearing. And Ali explained to you guys what an omnibus hearing is last, last live we did. It means multiple hearings at one time, multiple issues. Yes. Conducted on December 17th and 18th of 2025, both the state and the defense filed multiple written motions, addressing the admissibility scope and relevant proposed expert testimony, the defenses proposed expert concerning, quote, dynamics of child essay. Okay. Two, during the omnibus hearing, defense counsel affirmatively represented to the court that her proposed expert would testify to, quote,

34:55the dynamics of child essay, end quote, in asserted that such testimony would be relevant to the defense theory in the homicide case. At no point during the omnibus hearing, the defense counsel, a, request to call the proposed expert to testify, be proper, the expert's testimony through live evidence, or see, offer a detailed evidentiary proffer beyond counsel's generalized description for the court did not deny defense counsel, the opportunity to be heard on the issue of expert testimony, rather defense counsel elected not to present testimony or a formal proffer, despite having noticed that expert admissibility was squarely before the court and despite being afforded the opportunity to do so during the omnibus hearing. In bold, in bold, counsel's post hearing,

35:59hearing characterization of the court did not allow a hearing is not supported by the record and expressly rejected. The court's handling of the expert issue was consistent with the orderly trial meant with orderly trial management, the omnibus hearing procedure, and the court's obligation to assess relevance, reliability and admissibility before permitting expert testimony to be presented to the jury. This order is entered to clarify the record and to accurately reflect the procedural history and rulings of this court signed your truly judge Barbara Elmore. All right, so there you go. So you get that thing. So that thing's floating in the ether. All right, what do you, and we had a discussion about this? I mean, it seemed to me that like, so the judges is correcting the record, like basically saying no, the lawyer effed up and never even tried to put any of this in.

37:00And who knows when she wrote this, if she knew what she was going to do, you know, because Bob and I talked about the fact of all she knows that she just lined up that's it, that it's an ineffective assistance, a counsel claim. So she, you know, to leave that hanging out there could just result in the whole thing getting undone later on the argument of, you know, the judge didn't even say it wasn't relevant. She said the lawyer didn't put it, put it in, you know, so I don't know. I get the feeling, okay, just knowing this judge from the orders we've had thus far, that she is allowing the hearing just to deny the request because as Bob and I, I think, agree amongst ourselves, what was in the motion that we covered on the last slide, laid forth enough facts and an affidavit to allow the judge to reconsider and say the evidence is relevant if she wanted to and she didn't want to waste time and trials coming up.

38:00So to me, this is a whole dog and pony show to deny her. Hopefully I'm wrong. And you could be right, but I felt the way that I read the tea leaves is I thought that she was setting up exactly what she ends up doing, which is that she's going to allow this expert to come in and testify to, to, they're going to do an offer approved. Like, so, but that doesn't mean that you're not right, that she's just doing that in order she can turn around right away and say, still denying it. I've heard her because the one thing that we know when you guys, if you go back and listen to our last live, Aaron Casanelli was very detailed in her, in her memo in terms of what this particular witness is going to say. So now the judge already knows what she's going to say. And now she's just going to come and say it. So in, and I know that the way that this really went down from people that were in the courtroom that sent me their notes is the judge said, case has nothing to do

39:04with that say, I'm not allowing it. And that was it. And I also know that the expert was sitting with zoom open, ready to jump on and testify via zoom, whether or not the judge would have allowed that. I don't know, but the witness was ready. The expert was ready to testify. So, so the judge shut it down and then tried to, tries to make this record that the lawyer never tried to advance it. Okay. So there we go. So in response to that, all right, the motion to reconsider an alley and I say, well, there was already, yeah, it's, it, so we'll read through it. It's not too lengthy and it's, it's, it's worth the read. Okay. So this is a motion for order on the merits of motion for reconsideration or to reserve the issue for trial. Maybe you want to do the reading? Sure. The defendant Aaron Spencer, by and through his attorneys Aaron Cassinelli and Michael Kaiser states for his motion for order on merits of motion for

40:08reconsideration or to reserve the issue for trial. One, the trial, the court's recent order as to defend its motion for reconsideration of Carrie Landau's testimony entered prior to the expiration of the state's time to respond, inaccurately suggests that defense council was not prepared to call its expert at the prior hearing. The record reflects that the witness stood ready to testify on the date of pre-trial. However, the court determined that the subject matter of the testimony was irrelevant, agreeing with the state that the information about child sex, sorry, sex abuse, including grooming is not relevant to the case. The expert was listed as a pre-trial witness and prepared to testify. However, the court determined that there was no relevance to the testimony the expert could give on the subject matter. Wait a minute. This is the judge's ruling. You're muted. No, this is what Aaron runs. Oh, I was like, wow, the judge really, she will took a one.

41:10Annie, she reconsidered. Wow, wow. Okay, wow, sorry. I didn't know she filed something in between. And the other day, I say, dude, come on. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. So all right, after that, I get it now after the judge clarifies the record, defense counsel files, what we are reading right now. I was dumbfounded for a second. I'm like, I take back everything I already said. All right, two. So now that's the defense saying bullshit. Okay. How about I correct the damn record here at the pre-trial hearing, the state raised only an objection to the relevance of Carrie Landro's expert testimony. The court's order at the hearing was that the subject matter was excluded in its entirety. The court explaining those were not issues relevant to trial. jurors were sufficiently knowledgeable on the these topics. And the defense was quote, only trying to confuse the jury. Now, I just want to take a pause here and say, I never, and I think that that

42:11Bob will agree that maybe it was he mistated this. I never was of the mindset the judge is of because if that's the judge's mindset, that's not mine. My mindset is it's irrelevant whether she left the house alone or on her own or by force or by threat because all that matters is what a reasonable person might have thought it is reasonable for dad to assume she might have been taken drugged, forced or threatened out of that house. Returning to the body. Three, the defendant presented to the court, the nature and substance of the expert's testimony in pleadings and at pretrial and the court excluded the testimony in total based on its subject matter from that ruling. The defendant sought reconsideration. The testimony outlined in the motion or reconsider for in the motion for reconsideration is as represented at hearing testimony concerning the dynamics

43:11of child abuse, including grooming. The same in nature and substance as was presented at the hearing and excluded. The motion for reconsideration addresses the only objection asserted the state, the only objection asserted by the state at the hearing relevance and the basis for the court's exclusion of the testimony expressed at the hearing relevance. To the extent the court expressed concerned about confusion of the issues or within the knowledge of the jurors, those concerns are also addressed in the case law, the defendant cited in his motion for reconsideration. This type of testimony is routinely considered helpful to a jury and understanding evidence of child SA, evidence that necessarily must be presented in this case. The court's recent order characterizes the issue as a failure by the defense to properly present expert testimony and therefore does not address the merits of the reconsideration request.

44:14The record, however, shows that the court's ruling rested not on any deficiency in sorry. Properly any in presentation, presentation, but on its determination that the subject matter of the proposed proposed testimony was inadmissible. The motion for reconsideration asked the court to revisit the legal basis for that exclusion. The court indicated it would consider additional information and would again consider the expert's testimony after hearing trial testimony. After having first learned of the state's precise objection at the pre trial hearing and hearing the court's comments at the hearing, the defendant filed the motion for reconsideration to provide the court with additional authority to address the court's comments slash concerns and to sorry.

45:16Sure, a complete and clear record on the issue. Prior to the pre trial hearing, there was no explanation of the specific basis for the state's objection to expert testimony or indication of what the court ultimately stated was its basis for exclusion. The motion for reconsideration provided the court with additional lengthy authority addressing the objection raised at pre trial and the court stated concerns about relevance, potential juror confusion and common knowledge to ensure a complete and clear record and proper determination on the issue. The defendant asks only that the court evaluate those authorities and clarified its prior ruling, either by finding Miss Landau's testimony admissible or by reserving the issue for trial. So the record accurately reflects the basis for exclusion and the matter is adequately preserved for a pellet review. There you go. The defendant must obtain a ruling on the issue presented in his motion for reconsideration for purposes of appeal.

46:18Wherefore, the defendant, Aaron Spencer, asked the court for a ruling on the points raised in the motion for reconsideration of Carrie Landau's testimony and for any other relief, the court finds appropriate. So that was filed on what date? That was filed on the ninth. Okay. And now the judge is new ruling. Nope, not quite yet. Oh, so she also filed a brief along with it. Oh, we should have just read the brief. Oh, sorry. I'll do always repeat that's that we've decided this. Oh, it's all right. I'll read it. Yeah, go for it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do. I'm going to go ahead and do it. It'll be all right, baby. You'll survive it. You go take a nap. I'll wake you up when I say no. I'm just saying all right. So the defendant, Aaron Spencer, by and through his attorneys Aaron Castanelli and Michael Kaiser states for his brief in support of the motion for an order on the merits of a motion for reconsideration or to reserve

47:18issue for trial. The court's order entered January 7th address the defendant's motion for reconsideration of the exclusion of expert testimony by former FBI agent Carrie Landau. The court entered the order prior to the state responding. Interesting. The order appears to rest on the conclusion that the defense council did not seek to present live testimony at the pretrial hearing. However, the record reflects that Miss Landau was identified, prepared, and available to testify. pretrial transcript at 17 Aaron coming with the receipts. So the record further reflects that the court, after reviewing pleadings and hearing arguments on the state's limited objection ruled that the subject matter of the proposed testimony, the dynamics of child essay abuse or essay included group, including grooming was not relevant to the case, again, citing to the record from the omnibus hearing.

48:21So the motion for reconsideration file January 5th of 2026 responded directly to that ruling and provided supporting authority addressing the concerns raised by the court and the state during the December 17th, 2025, pretrial hearing. The defendant respectfully requested the court consider that motion on its merits and issue a reasoned opinion on the relevance of Miss Landau's testimony for purposes of trial and appellate review in the light of the case, the case law cited in the motion as such, a ruling is necessary to preserve the issue for appeal and the alternative. The defendant asks that the court reserve the issue and rule as the testimony develops a trial because that was something I was thinking about, babe, wherein which maybe they make that alternative argument on the day, which this thing you're going to find out is, well, so it trial.

49:25If they open the door, I think if they bring up the fact that they believe they being the state that it was the 13 year old's behavior and the way that she dressed and that she was provocative with this 67 year old. You think they're going to say that kind of shit? I'm telling you they're going to fucking come with that kind of bullshit. If they do that, if they do that, that kicks the door wide open for this expert to come in because they have to be able to rebut that bullshit. They have sure, but I think that also kicks the door wide open for all of the world, every, every media outlet, every creator to be like, what in the name of all that is normal, the fuck is going on in Arkansas? I mean, you want to be the laughing stock of the nation, walk into a courtroom and say some shit like that. Right. You want to see a me too?

50:26You're going to see a, I don't know what, but it's not going to be pretty because women are not going to stand for that shit. Women are not going to stand for that shit. I fear a 70 year old Arkansas farmer who's never fucking heard of grooming, who thinks that a girl in short shorts, well, I mean, you never know, because all it takes is one for a mistrial the other way. And then theoretically, Aaron Spencer's living under this bullshit again while they decide whether or not they're going to try him. And if they do, he's got to go through the nightmare again. Michael says if I'm in the courtroom and that comes out, I mean, I'm just going to have to stand up and object outrage your honor. This whole courtroom's out of order. Hey, little Al Pacino says, who's the loud mouth quietly and scream when we get out? I'll sit on my hands and allow my Italian woman out of here.

51:26No, I'll do this. I'll look around, be like, did you hear that? Did you hear that? Am I right? Am I right? Yeah. All right. So then I'm going to try to gather up the people for a fucking protest, like the likes of which they ain't never seen. And we're all going to read wear shirts that say, so we begin with art out of the courtroom before we even get there. Just kidding. I mean, I just certainly hope that that would never happen in any United States court of law. Yeah, okay. And if you're new to the case, the one thing that I always forget to mention, which is incredibly important and incredibly relevant, is the fact that this is the very same judge who gave the man with 43 counts against the very victim that Aaron Spencer is standing trial for defending. It's the same judge. Same woman.

52:27That judge gave that dude that particular bond amount. If she would have given like a bond amount that was commiserate with the offenses, like you normally see, I mean, we've had clients on bullshit drug cases, get $100,000 bond back when Illinois had bond. Like, it's just, it's crazy. It's crazy that I just said to put up five grand and he's walking on that many felonies. He's like, we're talking, that dude's never walking out of jail type shit. If he's convicted on those charges, it's crazy. All right. So there was just a general stay away. In my understanding, there wasn't a no contact order to this to the victim. It was just a no contact of any, no contact with any children, right? Which would cover the victim, but it's very unusual. It's very unusual. But then again, remember, this is the judge that tried to gag the world.

53:30Okay. Oh, yeah. You guys are going to talk shit about me. They're going to call everybody. I did this shit and done that gag world. She gagged all the gag the world Aaron and Michael who are Aaron Spencer's attorneys took it up to the Arkansas Supreme Court. They were outraged. They said, no, this is ridiculous. One of the judges in the, in the, I think he wasn't the majority opinion, but he was, he had written in his, his opinion. He had said that I'm trying to remember his exact words that she had gotten before the state had responded to the defences, abjection to the gag order before the state had responded that she had issued this incredibly overbroad. Uh, over that gorgher and that it was, it was so, and this judge is like, not only did she put it out before the state's response was due,

54:34she put it out quicker than somebody could make a pot of coffee. Okay. That's, that's what this, this, uh, this judge said. And like she didn't review shit. She didn't review, but she used a pro forma, a boilerplate gag order that was from a case that had been overturned. So not only didn't she draft that she used it from a case that was then bad case law. So like the whole thing was fucked. That judge also wrote, uh, we should be using our power to remove her from the case because this judge doesn't need to be sitting on this case. Right. But because that particular judge wasn't, uh, who wrote the majority opinion, he didn't have other judges in support of enough judges supported sounds like or any other judges support for that particular issue. So right. He's in the minority. That's some background. They all need to know. So that, that shit's all underlying with this case.

55:37So back to the body in a pleading and at the pretrial, the defendant presented the nature and substance of Miss Landau's testimony as did the state at the hearing and the state objected solely to the relevance of the expert testimony. Footnote one. So the state had previously filed generic objections to all experts without specificity, uh, as to the basis for its objections to carry Landau's testimony, but raised only relevance at the pretrial hearing. The state acknowledged as the defense counsel argued that it may be necessary to hold the issue in reservation until the court could hear the state's evidence at trial. Okay. So we're going back up here. Um, where was that footnote one? I don't know the whole world. What did it? What did they know doing? Where is that? Why would we put note be that on? Oh, there it is. Okay. So the state argued, quote, she wants, uh, she wants to be offered as an expert

56:37on grooming and I don't believe grooming has any place in this trial at all. It's, this is not an essay trial. This is a homicide trial, quote, so the court indicated it's agreement with the state and that it did not intend to allow testimony about child essay or grooming, explaining, quote, we're not having a trial on Michael Fossler in this case. We're not going there. I mean, that right there scares the hell to me. It makes it seem like she's got no intention of allowing in the fact that this child was abused by this man, which lays the whole basis of why he is in need to, why he knows he needs to protect his child. Insane. It's insane. Does this judge think that they're not going into the background of what led up to this moment in time? Like it's what is entire defense is built on. Is entire defense is built on everything that preceded in terms of was it

57:41reasonable for him to be thinking and acting the way that he was in that moment? And there's no way that you can get there without telling the backstory. Sorry, dead man Fossler, but the shit's coming in. They're going to hear what you've done. All right. So the court further remarked, quote, I expect some of that evidence of essay to be done. But I also expect the jury's smart enough to figure out things without your expert telling them what to do or what to think. What? What? I just went through that long diatribe about my dad, the 80 year old man who was a lawyer for God's sakes, who defended a girl who caved her father's head in with a bat for years of abuse against the mother and the child, even though he was sleeping.

58:42And like the man point being the man understands, right? This is the four battered women syndrome was a thing. Right. This was battered child syndrome. Right. But like, and so ultimately the state and that, well, I'm not going to even get into that. That's for a different life. All right. So, but the point being is my father had no clue what grooming was, no clue. Right. And still doesn't. You know who we could really use is a nice little sit down with Carrie Landau to explain to him what it is. I think it gets it now. Yeah. Maybe. So the court further remarked, Oh, okay, wait, I read that already. The court concluded, quote, I only see that you're trying to confuse the jury and bring in things they do not need to hear anymore of. And quote, sure sounds like a judge who doesn't want the fact that she let this fucking piece of shit out on a five grand bond, well, 50, but 10% to apply. Sounds like she doesn't want that coming out at all.

59:44A trial. Yeah. Tag it. Squirrel, look at that over there. Okay. The courts later later written order says that Miss Landau's testimony, quote, will confuse the issues in this matter and would not assist the jury in this trial of homicide footnote to the court later entered a written order, discussing three potential experts, Carrie Landau, Jennifer steel and Clint Norris. However, only Carrie Landau's testimony was at issue at the hearing, at the hearing, defense counsel advised that Jennifer steel had a family emergency and was unable to attend the hearing. And the court said that it could take up the issue of her testimony at trial if the defense ultimately decided that they needed to call her. The state did not pursue objections to the remaining potential defense experts. So at the hearing, defense counsel sought clarification and requested to

1:00:44renew the issue if the state argued that the minor was not abused, groomed or manipulated. The court replied that it quote, will look into it at the time and quote, transcript page 23. These statements further demonstrate that the exclusion of the testimony was based on subject matter, rather than any failure to present or proper evidence. So Aaron is explicitly laying out this issue very clearly for the appellate court. God forbid, there's a conviction in this case. Well, and God forbid, she didn't give the hearing that she's about to give. Right. Yeah. Well, but again, that goes really to the appellate. The building, right. She wanted to clarify the judge's clarification. Yeah. Like that judge, everything that judge said there's bullshit bullshit. Okay. So the testimony outlined in the motion for reconsideration. In fact, testimony concerning the dynamics of child essay, including,

1:01:45including grooming, the same nature and substance and subject matter that the party's explained and argued over at the pretrial hearing. The pretrial hearing was simply for the opportunity for the defense to learn of the state's actual objection to the expert testimony and parentheticals relevance or to learn of the court's independent objections to it and parentheticals confusion or perhaps common and not expert knowledge. And or after having the benefit of knowing the issues and dispute regarding the expert testimony, the defendant filed the motion for reconsideration to provide additional authority on the admissibility and relevance of expert testimony concerning child essay and grooming, the motion directly addressed the issues identified by the court, the motion for reconsideration addressed the only objection asserted by the state at the hearing relevance. And the apparent basis for the court's exclusion of the testimony expressed

1:02:47at the hearing relevance to the extent that the court's comments indicated a concern about confusion of the issues at trial or that the testimony is within the common knowledge of jurors. Those concerns are also addressed in the case law, the defendant cited in his motion for reconsideration. It is not confusing to provide testimony assisting the jury in understanding evidence on this topic and the subject matter of the testimony is such that not all jurors can be expected to know it. The court made clear that it outright rejected any effort to educate or enlighten the jury with any expert testimony that would help them understand the evidence of child essay, like grooming at trial, expressly ruling that it is not relevant to this homicide trial. And that quote, my jurors will be smart enough with the evidence presented and not this expert witness you in tend to call.

1:03:51That's coming straight from the transcript. So however, this type of testimony is routinely considered helpful to a jury in understanding evidence of the child essay. Evidence that is necessarily that necessarily must be presented in this case. I was just thinking how much I would love to have the judge in Corey Richens case sitting on this case. Right. Like seriously, we wouldn't have, we wouldn't be having this argument. We wouldn't. We wouldn't be having this, this whole thing wouldn't have to be filed. Okay. So when asked by cause possibly that judge would have excluded any discussion about how she really left that house. Because again, people, what really happened isn't relevant. It's only what was reasonable for Aaron Spencer to think happened. That that is the key here. So with another judge, it'd be saying, you know why this isn't relevant? Because I'm never letting the state ask that victim.

1:04:54And I mean the child, how she came to leave the house because it's not relevant unless Aaron Spencer knew it period. Did you see your dad? Did you wait to buy that on your way out? Well, then, then that gets it. But she is letting it in and she's making this ridiculous ruling in light of that her ruling is ridiculous in light of that. So maybe even recaculous recaculous, when asked by defense counsel about the jury being advised to foster having essayed the minor, the court acknowledged. Quote, I expect some of that to be done and quote, because of Spencer's awareness of the essay and because this background is part of and critical to the presentation of the state's case and the defendant's justification defenses, this evidence will, will necessarily be admitted in evidence of the relationship between his daughter and her abuser and her abusers grooming

1:05:58of her must be admissible at trial. Therefore, expert testimony on this subject matter, the dynamics of child essay abuse or child essay, including grooming will assist the jury in understanding this evidence. So just pause right there because it's where exactly the argument I made. That's what I was saying. Yeah, that you just made that that arguing earlier and it's a fair one, especially to, you know, counter like the way I'm thinking about it is that this is the state's evidence, too. They want to get in that he knew these things and because he knew these things, that's why he planned premeditated his unaliving. So it's like does the judge not know the state's case because that right there, like how she can't say this isn't an essay case when that's the state's entire basis for, like you said, like the petition, just the motion says for

1:07:01why Aaron Spencer allegedly intended and premeditated the unaliving. It's subsurred. It's absurd. So the court's recent order characterizes the issue as a failure by the defense to properly present expert testimony and therefore does not address the merits of the reconsideration request. The record, however, shows that the court's ruling rested not on any deficiency in presentation, but on its determination that the subject matter of the proposed testimony was inadmissible. The motion for reconsideration asks the court to revisit the legal basis for that exclusion. The defendant in his motion for reconsideration again, presented the nature and substance of the testimony pointed out the law that supports its admission and specifically addressing issues raised at the hearing and sought reconsideration of the court's prior ruling.

1:08:03The motion merely pointed out that the court did not hear Miss Landau's testimony because the court denied the motion on subject matter alone. The expert was listed as a pretrial witness and prepared to testify. However, the court determined there was no relevance to any testimony the expert could give on the subject matter noting, quote, we're not going there and we're not going there today in this. Those are both quotes. So the court also said your honor. Oops, I want to revisit that order you wrote. Hey, uh, judge, did you forget what you said? They have transcripts, judge. Here's the transcript. This is what you actually said. This is what you said here's your revisionist history order. And here's reality. Okay. So the court also said, if would it be great in life? If we just don't like it, oh my God, if we all had court reporters is following us around, read the record. Read the route.

1:09:03We could all just like run or like point it out. It'll be there soon when they read a record. Yeah, they merge humans and robots and we're got like computers for probably stop so many like murders and marriages. It would like, you know, can we go to the record? Can you read the record back, please? They read it back. Okay. We good. All right. All right. So I've already told you to, okay. So she said the court also said, quote, if you want to file something, I already told you to do it. So upon the defense council inquiring as to whether the court would reconsider permitting the experts testimony, if the state argues to the jury, as it has suggested, the minor was not groomed or abused or manipulated the court advised that it will quote, look into it at that time. The motion for reconsideration provides the court with additional legal citations and reasoning for doing so. Uh, in some, the motion for reconsideration provided the court with additional legal authority addressing the objections raised it a pretrial

1:10:07at the pretrial and the court stated concerns about relevance, potential jury confusion and common knowledge to ensure a complete and clear record and proper determination on the issue, the defendant asks only that the court evaluate those authorities and clarify its prior ruling either by finding Miss Landau's testimony admissible or by reserving the issue for trial. So the, so the record accurately reflects the basis for exclusion and the matter is adequately preserved for a Pellet review. Wherefore, the defendant and her and spester asked the court for ruling on the points raised in his motion for reconsideration of carry laid out testimony and for any other relief, the court finds appropriate. So they didn't ask for a hearing. I see true. You know what? I've decided, okay, that there must be judicial course 101 gas lighting. Like we get to say whatever, we get to say whatever the fuck we want.

1:11:11And that becomes what's true. And for the most part, it's true. Like I just had a pro say defendant be like basically saying the same thing. Like the state just writes X, Y and Z. I put forth clear, like black and white evidence that that's not true. But then the court just adopts what the prosecution said doesn't even review my evidence. Then when it goes up to the Supreme Court, they just adopt what the lower court said and no one takes note of the fact that I literally produced a piece of paper that proves the exact opposite. You know, and it's like this, we just all saw it. We were we were gas lit. The whole world was gas lit. And then the defense comes in with receipts like, no, judge, nah, you said, I'm not hearing this shit. This shit's not getting in. That's not what this case is about. That fat fat, but she tries to write that order and read, you know, rewrite history. Like you said, a whole revisionist history order.

1:12:15Judicial gas lighting, it's, it's, it must be a course. I agree. So I think we make a motion for judicial gas lighting and that we all have our own personal transcribers walking around just transcribing everything we say, you mean a motion of bar judicial gas lighting? Oh, yeah, yeah, motion preclude judicial gas lighting. I haven't seen that DB. I didn't, I didn't see anything about it. Where did you see? Can you lead me to? There's no document for it, Bob. So what's there to see? We said that there was an amended criminal information for this case. They just got amended on the 13th and then he said there's no document for maybe it's on the docket. Maybe is it on the docket DB? Like just as an entry because I'd certainly like to see it. All right. So we got that I'll, I'll check and hit me up, DM me DB. If that's, if you find a way that I, this is it, the courts order. That's it.

1:13:15Lord. So order of reconsideration, blow it up. It's got like a real gall field to it, doesn't it? The court has reconsidered defendant's motion for reconsideration on defense witness, Kerry Landau. The court has one free date to hear testimony on this issue of Miss Landau. The hearing is there for scheduled for January 23rd, room 206 at 10 a.m. It is so ordered. There you go. So I'm, I'm sorry. I'm going to stand by what I said initially. I hope it's not true to me. This feels like I'm going to give you your hearing and then I'm going to deny you because I made a record saying it was your fault. You said it was my fault. We don't want this whole thing coming back on either ineffective assistance accounts or that effect that I didn't let you do it. So I'm going to let you do it just to tell you no. And I say this again, because I strongly believe what was in the motion to reconsider was sufficient enough for this judge to decide if she actually

1:14:20changed her mind on anything substantive to let the witness in or to say, you know, I see the relevance in various situations. And I'm going to leave it open till trial because if, you know, look, judges don't like to waste time to me. The only reason to do it like this is to deny it. I agree with you and the reason I primarily agree with you is for all the reasons you've said, but also because Aaron was cast and only was very, very thorough in her motion to reconsider in terms of what land I would be testifying to. So essentially that's what I'm saying. Like this judge now knows everything that Carrie would have said or is going to say on the 23rd. So she already knows that. Right. So it's all it's going to be redundant in terms of what the judge knows that this woman's going to say, so I tend to agree that she's just doing it to say, okay, I heard your heard your expert denied. Right. So this will be one time Bob and I are just hoping that we're wrong.

1:15:23Yeah. Hoping that we're wrong. And who was wrong? You're on her. And I hope that Aaron has her motion once they kick the door open to get this reviewed one more time during trial. But I mean, they could kick the door open with something short of that stuff. You were saying like I'm telling you she was flirting and she was telling you that's just coming in. If you're talking to me, I'm going to be I'm going to be picking like Ali's job off the floor. She's going to be fucking outraged. We both will. I'm going to go out there and find any camera and and scream my face off. Oh, yeah. But only if they have lighting. Oh, yeah, excuse me, excuse me. I'd like to make a scene. Could you put some lighting on me better lighting? No, you're like, I need better like make a scene. Socks. Well, like in terms of it'll be interesting how they're going to do that. Like I did make an offer proof in the. Well, I think this is the offer proof as to this witness.

1:16:25If DB's talking about the concept of what they're going to bring in in terms of what their theory is. Oh, like if they're going to say the shit, like, ah, she wasn't groomed, ah, she wasn't abused. They were in a relationship. She loved him. What the what the what the shit's bad enough? I mean, that shit's got me outraged enough. That's how we start stepping into she wore short, short. She flirted with all that other shit. They they the whole thing is outraged. So I'm I'm going to try to make a stink about anything I can't actually, but the lighting has to be right. Yeah, I'll bring some lighting. Like battery operated lighting, make sure my wife looks good. All right. So order governing for here. There's a typo again. Order on or come on. You're on or some for yourself. Okay. It is here by order that. Oh, there she got it right there.

1:17:26Uh, ward off. Oh, ward out in this matter. She'll proceed as follows. So this is how they're going to pick a jury. Okay. This is the these are the rules for picking the jury. So perspective jurors shall be called and seated in panels of four jurors in time. Each panel of four jurors shall be examined for purposes of for deer. Any issues relating to jurors hardship bias or disqualification may be raised by council challenges for cause shall be addressed at sidebar outside the hearing and the remaining perspective jurors unless otherwise directed by this court. Uh, the court shall rule on all challenges for cause as they rise. This process shall continue until a total of 16 jurors who have not been excused for cause have been seated once 16 qualified jurors are seated. Those jurors shall be questioned collectively, uh, as permitted by the court. So, uh, preemptory challenges or strikes shall not be exercised until the full panel

1:18:28of 16, uh, qualified jurors has been seated. Now that's that's very interesting. Right. Yeah, uh, and for deer questions have concluded. So like typically we say that's interesting because it where we practice, we can you we can strike, we can use our challenges and we do use our challenges. You have to. They don't like what's called no strike backs. No, but you know, like you can't be like, hey, wait a minute. That guy that I let on in panel two, I want him out. Cause I want to say I want this other guy. Shit, he said some shit after the fact. Now I don't like him. Right. Uh, so that's interesting. So yeah, cause we, we, as we're getting that panel, our, our total jury built up, we're using our strikes as we go. Right. Usually like six at a time or could be 12 at a time, depending on how many they have in the box. Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, like or if and it's judged by judge really. Yeah. Okay, so at the time council may exercise their, uh,

1:19:29preemptory strikes in accordance with the law and procedure. So seven, this is in bold. Oh, caps, all caps and bolded. At no time, will a juror's name be called only the court and court staff council and their staff plus the circuit clerk shall know the names of the jurors. The jurors shall not divulge the name of fellow jurors and no other individual named here in shall divulge the name of a jurors will be identified by a number good old number 32. Right. And that's as it should be, especially in a case like this, 100% although I strongly feel like everyone's going to be on the defense side. But those couple of people that might be on the prosecution side, they want, they want their names protected. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if the judge sees it. The reverse, I don't, I don't, you got to, what are you? Some weak limpy and upchecked her child?

1:20:32Limpy. Court retains discretion to conduct additional sidebar conferences. Limit repetitive questioning. If in fact, council asks for your questions. Oh, they will. But she's saying if like if she let's them, she's still making seem like she might not let them. That's like the fourth time she said something like that. Shoo. Yeah, I mean, it does, it does kind of smell like that and modify this procedure as necessary to ensure fairness, efficiency and compliance with applicable law. All right, let me see here. That's it. It is so ordered. All right. So that catches us all up. We are basically aside from the 23rd. We are basically set for trial on this bad boy. And you know, to me, this, this carry land out issue scares the shit out of me because I'm telling you,

1:21:35Allie, we are going down to rural fucking Arkansas. And when we get down there, because remember my, the whole morgan half are fucking Arkansas people, like my family, I know those people, they are my people. My great grandmother had a farm in like 45 minutes out of Cersei. These are some fucking rural mofos who are not going to have any idea what grooming is, who may have certain thoughts about young ladies and what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And man, I'm just telling you, I think that that witness is so important to lay this shit out because even we need a youngster on the jury to explain to the old fox in that jury room when they're deliberating, okay,

1:22:37okay, boomer, I hear what you're saying, but that's fucking gross. And I'm not here in your shit, like we need, we need that millennial. And I mean, that's why you fight and educate those old bastards in there that don't know any better. Right. And that's why you get diverse, a diverse panel. It's the whole point of having people of different ages, different backgrounds, different ethnicities. Shoo! Alright, so All right, let's start going to the jury room. Teresa or Carissa, I don't know. Carissa. Teresa says, free Aaron Spencer, thank you. Thank you for your generosity. Christa Lex Aegis, new member. Oh, it actually became a family member. Yeah, during the other live, during our Jack Adams live, where we got to hear old bad Janet Britt and her bizarre statement. And she also gifted 20 DD podcast membership. So thank you for all of that goodness.

1:23:37Yes, yes, appreciate it. And what family? And Cody says, and I'm sure this goes to your goal. I'll put five dollar hollow on it. 100% appreciate you, Cody. Always, always and forever, my friend. Coco Mo Indiana, let's free Aaron Spencer. Yes. Thank you so much for your support. Yes, I am a Karen. Thank you for your generosity. And your honesty. Thank you, thank you, thank you. The Kaye Spay, y'all are the best to do it. I always learn so much. Thank you very much. Thank you for your generosity. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. We appreciate you. History and homicides, boots, meat ground. Thank you, and always, never. It's my favorite place to be. It's nothing better than being. Unless the bears are playing. So, you know, I'm boots on the ground for that shit too, girl. I'm not wanting to sit around a watch shit. I like to be there.

1:24:39I'm just saying. Right. Some guy with cancer. Oh, that's. Oh, you're saying if they're in the NFC chat chat. Right, that's very sad. Sorry. Oh, it's major news here in Arkansas. Everyone supports Aaron. It's not national news yet. But it's huge locally. Dang. It's, I mean, I'm, I'm assuming has, has like long crime and court TV. Have they been covering this at all? Not much. It's not on the list. I touched. I touched. I was just going to say talk to Vinnie. I touched Vinnie. I'm like, yo, but I don't want, like, I, like, I didn't want them sending somebody down there taking up a space. Oh, yeah. There's no way to trust him. I was just like, hey, what's up, bro? What's up, bro? Just look at your phone around the 26. I guess I'm sure they got to tell you. But thank you so much. Some guy with cancer 1595. And I hope you're beating that shit. Yes. Bailey B.

1:25:39Thank you for your generosity. As always, Jenny Hicks said. Bob and Ali have you thought about trying to get press credentials? You're supposed to look into that. Let's try to figure out. Are they giving press credentials? Everyone lining up, like, what, there's, you got to probably got to look into it. I like, like, here's the deal. Like, are they going to be of the, the judge, goal judge? Well, who knows? First, we got to figure out if they're even like giving out a certain number to press. You know, how they're, I don't think they are. Right. But like, it's first come, first or I mean, I can pull up that order. I thought you'd be like, I was trying to avoid you like, go, wow, wow, yeah, no, that fucking shit is not going to stand. I don't know who the, I don't know what that all that was. No, that's you, yeah, all right. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's basically it's 55 seats. That's it.

1:26:39Like, there's, there's a certain amount allotted to, let me see if I might have it up here or something. All right, you get it up. I'll put on about. I got it in there. And P this queen. But you're in the name. What does this mean? What's the, all right, see, as soon as I leave out. Oh, sorry, coming back. All right, let me see what, uh, what's the, it's, it's too long to, to, whatever, too long to, too long to read, because, uh, so you just joined bottom like, yeah, go bears, go Broncos. All right, all right. Uh, so novice, this is the Aaron Spencer case. If, uh, or, Neep of this queen, nip, this is queen, nip, this is queen. Uh, if you, like, the Aaron Spencer case is the dad,

1:27:40who found the guy who had been, uh, abusing his daughter, three months prior, he got out of the, yeah, he's the middle of the night. Charge, you got out on bond, three months after he gets out on bond, he's got Aaron Spencer's little girl again, driving around with her as a truck, gets him off the road, dude gets out, talking shit, flannel and arms, maybe some in his hand, and Spencer puts 15 empties the clip on him. And now he's up, he's up for double. And they're trying to charge him with first degree murder. Second degree. Oh, they first tried. Didn't they have first. Well, you're gonna like, uh, wait, it could be different because DB sent me something. I want to check it when we're here. I'll check that. You do that. Yeah, that's important. Um, Andy 3D says Aaron was trained for this. Thank you for covering. He was in the military. Sorry, yeah. Uh, Thunder Horse 2003 says for boots on the ground.

1:28:42Thank you for your generosity. He's like, uh, LOL. It's 113, 2026, 452PM, amended criminal information. He's like, laugh a lot. There, there you go, bro. Wait, thanks, man. That's it. It's all it says. It's exactly what I just read to you. That's all there is. That's there is no paper on it as he said. So he said there's nothing on it. Let's put it. That's all it says. All right. We'll have to call the clerk. We've got to figure that should. We got to see what the fuck. Dr. Jen toxic says trying to hit the family goal. Thank you. Wait, you can have it up. Oh, well, because you're all right. You talk. Thanks, Dr. Jen. We love you a long time. First of all, 85, $10, Hala. Love it. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Ooh, Priscilla with the big hundo. Wow. I would rather have sent this out. Our zap, I'm putting this out on the scroll. I'm doing the supergift on the next Spencer live.

1:29:43Yeah, us too. I don't have Venmo. Oh, you don't have Venmo. Okay. Thank you for all you have. We have a cell or we just have Venmo info. Yeah, we have a set like I have Zell. We have. But do we have that up somewhere? Oh, I don't know. I think we have Venmo PayPal and cash apps. Oh, yeah, you need to pull the yellow up. You got to put it up. All right, thanks, Priscilla. We're going to do it. I look forward to hearing this first hand from you. Yeah, let's not rush the person who just. No, I wasn't, I wasn't suggesting that. I could seem like. What do you guys think? Well, she, does Zell, you trying to move on to the next one? Come on, you know, the people got my back in here. Oh, yeah, so annoying. And look forward to hearing this first hand from you. God bless you. Thank you so much for your generosity. We really, really, really appreciate it. Under your scars, 71, 81 members for three months, grooming includes brainwashing in the vendor. Yes. Yes, it does. It's got the jury has to learn what it is. It's like, it's like, it's not something that's common knowledge.

1:30:46This judge is out of her fucking mind if she thinks it's common knowledge. I didn't really even know what grooming was until. I started hearing about it like three or four years ago. I'm like, oh, like, everybody's grooming area. I'm like, what is this grooming shit? And then I'm like, oh, now I see. So it's, I'm really. I got a couple. Yeah, yeah. Eroy 94, $5, new subscriber. Thank you very much. Love boots on the ground reporting. Good love hope that every cent helps. We are so appreciative. Like, I always feel bad. I was like, I could just do two dollars. I mean, $2 is amazing. Thank you. We appreciate everything that you guys do always. Any 3D says fossil was imminent 43 charges. For real. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that dude wasn't living in prison either. So like, that guy was not long for this world. And that just goes hand in hand with. I might as well find it right now. I highlighted a non-super

1:31:48that goes hand in hand with that that I guess I didn't highlight because I can't find. But someone who said, maybe I could just put it up, you know, like that it's reasonable to think that he was going to unalive the only victim who could identify and testify against him. It's the only witness against him. Yeah. Very reasonable to think that. Yeah. Because you were telling, like, I've said this, I don't know how many lives. I'm not going to belabor the point. This guy gave zero fox the fact that he had her again. And even if he was going to, if he had the balls to pull up to her house and drop her off, this guy does not care. He did not care. He gave zero fox at all. That guy was, that guy was absolutely reasonable to think that your child's actual life is and this guy's going to kill my kid or he's going to abscond with or whatever. Either way, like she's disappearing. Yeah, I'm, I am fearing for my child's life.

1:32:48I'm sorry. Yeah. Motions to see. Oh, wait, I skipped history. History and homicide gifted one DD podcast membership. Thank you so much. As always, history and homicide. We love you. Motions to CPA. $5. Appreciate it. Arkansas. Here they come. I don't know what that is. That's me walking. He's walking. Yes, he's talking. Yes, he's all right. All right. Thank you. The Donda Beach says, I'm in. When do we go to Arkansas? 26, baby. That's that's right down the earlier. God willing. That means I have to roof of the bears to lose. I don't know. It's a bit of terror. I know. I was sitting here thinking, God, I'm in a quite precarious position here. Quite precarious. Thank you so much for a Dondo. Child starts 26. Jury starts getting selected. 26. Unless there's some miracle.

1:33:50No, 20. Oh, 26. Right. Oh, the 23rd is that hearing. Yeah, classic overthinker. Thank you for your continued support for nine months. What is furnishing prohibited articles? I didn't. What was that about? I don't know. Was that from one of the. Most of the we read. Maybe prohibited from furnishing articles? Furnishing prohibited articles is like maybe the, you know, the defense is trying to. Publish an article. Uh, legally, like a legal scholarly article about grooming. I don't know. I don't. Sorry, we can give us more. Like here. I'm trying to like, remember here. Remember in, uh, Art Andy 3D says, and if I'm going to go to the next one right after this before we start to talk about it. But how can the same judge preside? Isn't that biased? And then. Steph, Steph Kaker says, did the defense ever file a motion about the judge having a conflict of interest?

1:34:51Since she ruled on, uh, foster or whatever the legal, wait, she rolled on. Oh, yeah, foster or whatever the legal term is for recusal. So you both make like a common sense good point here. And obviously we're talking about how and the Supreme Court talked about how that did create a bias here. And that she made that ridiculous gag order. We're calculus, even. We're calculus, um, but right in the level of bias for the purposes of the trial. You know, I mean, maybe they, maybe they should have given. Sorry. I read that joke and it was very funny. Do you read it? Yes. I didn't know if it was insulting to Arkansas, Arkansas and half my family is from Arkansas.

1:35:52I just didn't know that so I was reading it. I still thought the joke was fucking hilarious. So there's that. Whatever that's worth. All right, I have to get what I'm saying. I mean, you were saying, well, there, you know, there's, I got it. So all I was saying is that maybe the defense should have filed a motion. I can't remember. They didn't, right? Seek to have. I don't think that they did. After the Supreme Court, because of the gag order, that that shows some, you know, issue in the Supreme Court, at least somebody said three justices supported the one. How many ever there were thought it was, thought it was, you know, worthy of being brought up. So, but for the other part, for the other part of it, no, I mean, if you're in a small county, the odds are, you know, you're going to give somebody bond that may get into some kind of legal issue with somebody else that's out on these streets.

1:36:52You know, I mean, when you only have a certain number of judges, there's bound to be overlap. Right. No, that judge is going to have a full docket. They'll be giving bond out like right and left. And, you know, I mean, there's a chance that two dudes getting a fight in a bar, and one caves the other one's face in, and now they're in court. And I really go, you gave that guy a $5,000 bond. He wouldn't have been in the bar being a dick face to me. Now, I wouldn't have had to punch him in the face for being such a dick face. So, you're, you're biased, you're out. I mean, it's like, this is obviously way more extreme. Right, especially given her gag order. But anyway, on its face, it's not biased. Right. Michelle Pate or Pate, I don't know. Hey, I'm outraged that this is even going to trial. We can cure. Same. I would like to fly in and intend in person, we will. Any idea is how long the court expects jury selection to take. Sounds like they think a day, right? Yeah, I mean, if they're doing, if they're going to do panels of four, I mean, it could go a day and a half.

1:37:54Right. Maybe. I mean, it could go that they cannot even get a jury. I mean, I think the fact that they can't use their challenges until the things like all the 16 are picked, it's going to expedite it. I said, they might not be able to pick 16. Everyone's going to have an opinion. Everyone's going to have heard of this case. Everyone there heard of the case and everyone that's heard of the case. Almost many of the people have heard of the case. And everyone who's heard of the case has an opinion one way or another. That's my opinion. Your opinion is correct, ma'am. That's why I want to be there for jury selection, because I can't wait to hear what these prospective jurors are going to say. Yeah. What the fuck I would have done the same duck damn thing. Right. But I believe this man's a hero. Like that kind of shit. Steph Kake came back again. They're quietly clapping. Yeah, you the man. All the moms, like all the mama bears in there. Steph Kake comes back again.

1:38:56Or Steph Coker. Coker. Coker, sorry. Coker. Old lady eyes. How can this state want the body cam footage where Spencer, Spencer learns of the essay and then not want to mention any of essay a trial. Make it make sense. And we can't. And I don't even think it's it seemed more of the judges argument than the states. And that's like what Bob mentioned and what the defense mentions as well. Like, hey, the state's going to bring this shit up. The state's putting this issue into evidence. It's this part of the state's case and chief. You're on her pull your head out of your ass. So that's why maybe the judge might actually change her mind. And we're hoping that this is not just a exercise and futility where she's like denied. You know, so. KP Times had asked what is the age of consent in Arkansas? It's 16. But for like that statute. No, and there's also the felony, both the kidnapping and the felony.

1:40:00I think the felony our statute, if you are 14 and older, it has to be by physical force or threat of force. So consensual, not consensual, but, you know, non-physical force or threat of force, it is not, um, it's something it's a little crime. It's just not. And KP Times, I did get your paypal, your $25 paypal. Thank you. So very, very much for that. I appreciate it. So Eroy 94 says, Kenneth. And Kayleigh. Oh, I did. Indeed, you did, I think. Oh, wait, maybe I want to far down. Sorry. So Eroy back again says that Kenneth defense filed a remove the judge for conflict of interest, seeing that she, she's the one, the monster that let him out on bond. And we just, we just talked about that. But, you know, we, we, we understand your point is well taken.

1:41:04Very well taken. Well taken. I mean, like common sense world. Seems like it would be, right? Because it's like, right. Clearly is, there's a lot of CYA and going on with this. Right. Delmore on this shit. Freeze-fold with another super sticker. Thank you for your generosity. Yes, yes, yes. Now you're here. Oh, uh, Kayleigh. Thank you for your $2 hour Arkansas and ceiling carry course teaches empty clip. Empty the clip. Oh, there you go. Put that dude down. I mean, he can talk about his training in that regard then as well. I never thought about it from that, that angle. So the good men's members for seven months. Love you guys always. Love you back. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Yes, we love that. They're very appreciative. Skygod is 87, 10 bucks, solid, uh, free earn, free earn indeed. Birdman says, bad judge, Limerick, with a cold iron fist she would rule,

1:42:06plotting in darkness to bury the proof, tipping the scales in justice prevails. The first casualty of war is the truth. I think that's a great Limerick. Yes. And thank you for your generosity. Yes. Love your Limerick. It's a great Limerick. You should have said proof like rule. Like she would rule plotting in darkness to bury the proof. All right, thank the people one more time. All right, we love you guys. Uh, remember this. Go listen to buried. I've been forgetting to say that. Go inside the John Wayne Casey. Listen to buried buried. For the love of God. Oh, of God. All right, thank you. Uh, all right, y'all. We love you guys so so much without you. I'm just an old man. Sitting around talking to his wife.