Strategy Will 3X Bitcoin. Knut Svanholm Calls It A Scam.

0:00What if this is a year where Bitcoin 10X is and goes to $700,000 and you get 11% instead of that? It's I like Bitcoin by my shit coin. This is what strategy is and especially when he starts building these layer two Crap's on Solana and Ethereum and whatever. It doesn't sit well with me at all. I personally think that MSTR from strategy will freex all the returns that Bitcoin will do in the next two to three years. MSTR is the most exciting investment that I've ever been in since I am in Bitcoin. And now Knude's one home. Someone that I respect that I watched on a very regular basis calls this investment which I'm very excited about as scam. That's why I invited Knude to figure out what he really thinks about strategy, what he thinks Bitcoin is currently doing, why he isn't that excited about strategy, why he calls this scam, why he thinks it's not negative for Bitcoin. And of course we also talk about security of Bitcoin.

1:04The new Blake coin, Luke coin, it being the new shit coin or it not being the new shit coin. We talked about the definition what a shit coin really is. Enjoy. I was until December last year of the opinion strategy might be interesting but I'm not interested in it. But I'm getting more into that scene and still exploring. But I said in the beginning of the year I will take the full year for me to figure out where I really stand the strategy. Right now I'm more forward than against it. Where are you just general view on strategy? Yeah I have, okay this requires a bit of history with me and Sailor I guess to start this off. So when Michael came on to the scene in 2021 I think. Pretty soon there after and I think there's around the same time as he made the the breed love series

2:12that he made the famous one that Orange Pilder is sort of a sort of the Andreas Antonopoulos of a certain generation I think like people in their 30s around that time a lot of them were Orange Pilded by that series alone and Sailor's very eloquent way of describing Bitcoin and comparing this to you know ancient Rome and what not. He was very eloquent and able to explain these things in very simple terms in the beginning but then slowly but surely he's changed his tune quite a lot and I'm not sure that I like what I'm hearing or to be honest I pretty much hate what I'm hearing from in nowadays and I think the communities should have reacted there was an interview a couple of years back where he said that we want Bitcoin to be with regulated institutionalized entities

3:17rather than paranoid crypto anarchists and I remember the communities reaction at the time was sort of yeah but he has to say that to a piece his shareholders. Well if a person has to say that what else does he have to do like and can you actually trust the person that needs to change what he says to to to to to please his shareholders and to me this is the point where the community should have done what we would have done back in 2017 which is slay or heroes because this is one of the reasons where I fell in love with this community in the first place is that it was back in 2017 it was so relentless in in killing anyone who promoted a shit coin or did anything that was outside the ethical boundaries of what Bitcoin was

4:18supposed to be so to say so but with Sailor is it's sort of like he was immune it reminds me of Andreas Antonopoulos also was immune for the longest time because my generation was orange pill by him and then he released a book called mastering Ethereum and no one dared to touch him even though we were like slaying people left and right for being East Tards online so so and and I see this as similar because if you don't want paranoid crypto anarchists to be the the the vanguard the like the people who protect Bitcoin then Bitcoin is sooner-related doom to fail if it falls into the hand of institutions and regulators instead of the paranoid crypto anarchist then you haven't really understood what this thing is in the first place and yeah there's some parallels to the Bitcoin 10 debate here but I think what you're effectively doing is is slaying the the golden

5:22goose for a kinder egg by saying such things and and taking such a stance and nowadays Sailor is completely from what I can tell completely oblivious to his reputation among Maxis anymore he just shills whatever whatever he wants to shill and it's it's the same old scammers always I like Bitcoin by my shit coin by my stock by my whatever and and it's a scammers all thus as time and time beginning on the third of January the 20 2009 of course but but it's I like Bitcoin by my shit coin this is what strategy is and especially when he starts building these layer two crabs on Solana and Ethereum and whatever is like total shit coiner now and it doesn't sit well with me with me at all and also by promoting a product such a stretch and saying that this is risk-free somehow

6:28you it's super dishonest because what you're actually buying is a derivative stock of a mother stock which is micro strategy I guess which is a stock in a company who has a they're they're actual underlying product is their services for the big Silicon Valley companies right no one knows about what it actually is but they do some digitalization for Google and whatnot and they have a bit of cash flow in or quite quite a bit of cash flow but Sailor's problem was that it was all being diluted by money printing and I didn't know how to keep his wealth over time and then he got Bitcoin and now their thing is take on as much fiat that as possible and accumulate as many big coins as you can and then he says oh and then I'll give you this product stretch which will give you an 11% interest rate because I expect Bitcoin to outperform that

7:36year by year on average over the next couple of decades however the very machine his building is preventing Bitcoin from doing that it is counter to Bitcoin appreciating at that rate if people buy a stock instead of buying actual Bitcoin then Bitcoin's price is not going up and it has I think it's countered to the whole to the whole moment and especially if you start promoting a bunch of other shit and shit that just confuses people away from the original mission of this thing then you're not you're at there's so much risk there first of all it's not strategies Bitcoin because they have a custodian holding the big coins for them from what I know that custodian is Coinbase right so the person actually controlling those big coin is some guy at Coinbase and as

8:42we know as we know from all sorts of things including the cold card hack some guy at Coinbase can fuck off and buy an island whenever he wants to yeah they're probably in a multi-sick setup it's a rebuttal to that yeah but some guys at Coinbase can do the same thing collude and fuck off so I don't think they're very secure just because an American auditor gave a stamp of approval to Coinbase at one point in time so you're you're taking on all of this risk risk you wouldn't have if you had done your homework and done proper self-custody and also you're excluding yourself from the actual 10x bull runs that happens every now and then what if this is a year where Bitcoin 10x is you know and goes to $700,000 and you get 11% instead of that and you're giving all of that other money to sailor so I think it's a very dishonest product also if it goes the other way if Bitcoin's price drops then these people are in in trouble as they were here back in a couple of

9:49months ago when the this stock is supposed to stretch is supposed to be a value that $100 at all time it went down to 70 and then they need to you know redefine words and redefine their contracts and and there's a lot of financial technical jargon to confuse people about what's actually going on and stretch is one of the first thing that things that go if strategies should one day be an actual trouble then the stretch holders they go first so you're taking on a ton of risk from all sorts of other vectors while promoting a guy that is basically selling you a shit coin to accumulate more Bitcoin so so so I don't approve of that I don't think it's good behavior I don't think that's a role model behavior and I don't think it's like contributing anything to the community and there are other things like now there's this consortium that was announced

10:56like two months ago just like one month before bit 110 that this is the Bitcoin security consortium and you have blackrock and strategy that are setting up what was it $15 million fund to fund developers I mean developer funding is in itself a problem and has been since 2019 2019 the whole reason that bit 110 ever it was ever even suggested is that a subset of Bitcoiners view core developers as corrupted by by the financing that they've gotten from outside sources and I've experienced this personally my first when I wrote my first book in 2019 sovereignty through mathematics a core developer a very good one one of the best people I know called John attack he helped me edit that book but when it came to the last chapter he was going to some meeting in New York

11:59where he was going to apply for one of these grants that were given out by I can't remember if his brink or chain code labs that came first but one of those two and after that meeting he didn't want his name on the book it didn't want to be associated with it because it was you know too impolitically correct and too based so he couldn't have his name on a libertarian anarchic capitalist book like that that was in their view extreme right wing right so so he had to self censor back then this is 2019 and if you've read hot little notes articles I don't know if you had or not like the capture articles you can see how this uh woke creep has has done a lot of damage to that community and there's a lot of you know relativism with words the definition of words and bitcoin is not really just money it's programmable money and all of this and I think that that

13:01poses a real risk to the entire network because one day people start taking ptod seriously when he starts talking about demirage and uh whatever it's called and tailor missions and stuff which is completely counter to what most bitcoin review bitcoin has like 21 million you never touch that that's like within our souls we wouldn't if it was increased by one sat 99 percent of us would fuck off at least that's what we tell ourselves but is it really true well it's true as long as the culture stays toxic and stays uh um you know remains what it ought what what it what it always ought to be which is like bitcoin is money we're gonna do everything in our power to to kick the shit corners out and and and uh keep it as pure as possible I I do not know at which point the word purest became a slur but to me it's the same thing as uh when betalic called as as maximalism

14:08maximalists in the in the first place it's the shit corners it's always the shit corners and the shit corner apologies apologists that are trying to um label us as this or that when all we are really are big corners true big corners who want big coin to be money that's that's all there is that's all there is to it and if you know anything about money you know that the quality of money goes down if it has other use cases this is true for gold this is true for fiat if I draw a penis on a fiat bill it will it will so certain people will not accept it even though some even though it's a use case and some collector might think it's a uh a more valuable fiat bill because it's a a fiat build a new drew penis on at one point for for the most part it will function worse as a medium exchange over space and time because it's now being um it's being something else and and if

15:16bitcoin is something else the other use cases leak value they don't add value to type of money so so now that and I think the thing that triggered the whole bit one 10 thing is uh core uh uh in in corv 30 these mempool policy defaults were upgraded right to allow for the op returns I was never into bit 110 primarily because of that reason uh because I I I don't think this whole sees I'm argument holds up to too much scrutiny I think uh judges are corrupt anyway and courts are corrupt anyway so no judge in the world is gonna it's gonna care where in where on the time chain you put the the nasty material um but still that that was the trigger for the software proposal to happen a large community of big corners said if you do this we are going to suggest

16:18the soft fork and and try to push it through and then they did and the soft fork failed which means that now part of that community is actually working off which means fewer big corners and not only fewer big corners but we lost some of the best big corners we lost some of the most principled big corners and court did that to themselves they could have just not implemented this change that no one except the spammers wanted no one really wanted this change some people saw it as yeah we can uh if if we can incentivize the spammers to put their spam elsewhere on chain it will be less damaging in blah blah blah so so a lot of people let's say let's say the majority we're fine with this upgrade uh but but I don't think a majority was fine with um losing some of our best warriors because there will be more battles in big coin where we may and where we need to take a

17:19harder stance and where we need to win because there there is a final fork here where big coin is dead if it fails and I don't think this one was so I keep on ranting here you haven't even asked a bit 110 questions yet but uh yeah um and I don't even remember what this question was about so so it was about stretch I think uh I just asked you what your general few on strategies but I think it you cowardly nicely um but you had I want to uh point I will just reflect on the points that you said that I really agree on because I think this is uh uh and very important to to hammer down as like if you really understand Bitcoin stretch doesn't make for me financial sense and no ethical sense so like for me um stretch has like no use case outside of uh maybe extracting value from uh tread fire towards Bitcoin but I don't think this is currently

18:24happening too much I think most of the people that actually buy stretch are not uh tread for people more actually Bitcoiners but that's impossible to know I don't I don't I don't know about it one thing that which is also extremely important and people forget that um when they buy a strategy especially like MSTR stocks have massive amount of risks like strategy even if the strategy fees is amazing and everything is as like great they can still make execution uh risk they can have custody risk uh even sale himself made a podcast I think like two years ago or so where he mentioned all the risks of uh stocks and those are risks that are to every single security and stock associated it's not just uh not just a strategy and strategy has like way more risks so you're taking on a lot more risk if you buy stretch strategy str- like any any stock for that matter and also think uh being a pureist is actually a good thing um I I don't think we should

19:26let people uh make good words make let make it bad I think we had on twitter discussion about permissionless because I think permissionless is a really important feature also on of Bitcoin but it doesn't necessarily mean uh the thing that people think it means like you know like the the word permissionless I think is a good thing for Bitcoin uh and we should not let it be like differently defined from from people that want to scam or not scam spam uh people I can do everything I want with with Bitcoin no no and this is to me it's obvious what the word is supposed to mean it means permissionless money you're you don't need permission to send a payment to someone else it's not permissionless file storage it was never supposed to be that uh and the thing I did the thing I think uh Bitcoin Core uh did wrong and is still doing wrong uh I met a lot of

20:29core developers in Vienna this spring and and the the general feeling I get from that community is that they they view their job as uh uh adapting to whatever is going on on chain they look at the chain and then they adapt the code to that to to function as smooth as as possible and keep fees low because fee estimation and keep this in that uh well functioning and well maintained so instead of uh and I think that approach uh I would prefer if they had another approach which is the approach Bitcoin is money and we are going to do whatever it takes to to keep it's be money and not to let it steer off into other directions because that is a real danger um and I think they some of them underestimate that danger um and I I wish they had a slightly different

21:30approach because I think there's a discrepancy here between the the the fields of knowledge needed to be a good Bitcoin well or to be a good person or be a good Bitcoiner uh if you have two circles and you have make a van diagram uh you have knowledge about computers and code and uh computer networks here and you have knowledge about economics here you you ideally want your average Bitcoiner to be in the middle because we don't want plebslock mongers such as myself to be technically incompetent but we also don't want developers regardless if they're core developers or wallet developers or whatever they are to be um economically illiterate because that uh that poses a risk because you don't know what you're dealing with because money is not like other things money uh I think it's um uh Rothbard who call it a good sous-genarius meaning that it's a good

22:35in itself like it's not a producer good nor a consumer good um you know in Austrian economics you make the difference between producers goods and consumers goods so the the the sandwich is a consumer good which you eat but the toaster and the and the butter knife are producers goods because you don't use them you don't eat them you you eat the product that they make and you you can you can take this to extremes money though is not used to produce anything and it's not consumed so what is it well it's just a medium exchange it facilitates trade between people and removes the uh it solves two two major problems it removes the the uh mutual coincidence of needs in barter so I don't have to require what you have to trade with you because I now have money which is everyone can once because it can be exchanged over and over again and also it provides us

23:36with a unit of account it allows for economic calculation so that we can plan ahead for the future and thus lower our time preference those those are the two uh problems the money solves and uh there is no jpeg or BRC 20 token or anything like that that is even close to solving any one of those two problems and like this is what become is uh supposed to be and that's I know there's a sort of a high horse moral thing to say but as soon as a a tool loses its purpose then it's uh uh then all of a sudden it makes sense to have an old coin and that makes absolutely no sense because if you if an old coin would be an actual alternative the 21 million wouldn't matter and then you're back to fear it again basically and you're back to humanity shooting itself in the foot all the time uh I mean if a screwdriver is used as a sextoy a fewer screws will be screwed into the wall

24:43you know so that's what a use case does to money uh what what amazing comparisons I love that by the way you probably have noticed that too um technical people tend to shit coin more at least in in my environment those people that are interested in in Bitcoin and those are more on the technical side they are usually also the ones that also love to experience with Solana and Ethereum and all of those things which I found really interesting yeah interesting and concerning um because it's that that's not I wouldn't if I was the CEO of Bitcoin I wouldn't employ such a person because I think it's more important that you have the moral values first um because otherwise uh like sayler himself said once like a well-meaning developer is probably the biggest risk attack vector to Bitcoin that that proposes a change and nobody notices and it wrecks the whole thing

25:48if it ain't broke don't fix it sort of thing um no I know I know and uh yeah it is it is a legitimate concern I think I have um I have one two more questions strategy and then I want to dedicate everything to the pipontan and the security things do you think that sayler is now becoming a net negative for Bitcoin especially considering like the consortium the high amounts of BDC that he already has that like Coinbase strategy black croak triangle or whatever you want to call it yeah absolutely I think he has been a net negative for quite a while and uh yes I don't care about uh not being invited to more wagyu stake parties I mean we had fun last time but uh I've been there done that I I don't need uh I think sayler needs us more than we need him and uh that goes for every Bitcoiner uh so uh if if he doesn't change his tune anytime soon here and uh I mean I think

27:00it's all the shit coinery um he wrote this article uh Bitcoin reformation uh and it's well I'm the ultimate plebslop mongers so I know uh I know plebslop when I see it and it's basically uh a whole bunch of plebslop like 10,000 words of plebslop uh and talking about how how they refine Bitcoin into money and all of this uh bullshit uh and I think that the TLDR is basically I like Bitcoin by my stonk and I don't like it at all I think it's a scam um end of story and I wish he would stop doing that and do something productive with his ginormous pile of Bitcoin instead like promoting it's actually used as money instead of pretending that his products are money when when Bitcoin is designed to be money uh and I another thing on

28:01that note like a lot of confusion comes from the distinction or the dichotomy between store of value and medium will change I think the the term store of value is wrong for many reasons but the main but one being that you uh value is subjective you cannot store a subjective uh feeling uh so I prefer and I'm trying to promote medium of exchange over space and time so over space when I trade with you and over time when I trade with my future self it's a four-dimensional thing and a a good money needs to be both fiat is a crappy medium of exchange over time because it loses its value because it's being diluted by greedy ass also print more of it gold is a crappy medium of change over space if you've ever tried to pay someone in gold you know that is uh I haven't by the way but it seems like a a big hassle and they're not very easy to carry uh over national borders and

29:03stuff so their uh gold is a crappy medium of exchange over space which is why fiat was introduced in the first place uh but a good money needs to be both um and uh by by deliberately not seeing money as a good medium of exchange over space I think sailor is diluting its long-term values of medium of exchange over time by not accepting it as a medium of exchange over space by not accepting the fact that it has to be both um that's um sure no one can tell you when to spend your money and store value is or a medium of exchange over time is a arguably a more crucial function of but it still doesn't make it digital capital and then you need digital credit on top like the low time preference thing is trying to get yourself out of the debt bubble to not have any big mortgages that's where we want people to be we want them to have a stack instead and just

30:05not uh not need to go right now everyone's going into debt and at some point that bubble will burst and what follows then is wars and civil unrest and a lot of bunch of crap that's what we want to fix like the whole separating money on state and fixing the money thing it doesn't work if you still need credit on top of it like i just on buy it there is a thing also the the things that sailor recently released on on on twitter this how he imagines uh a bit going to scale with those different layers that you kind of tease now this was actually a perfect segue because this was my my second question and i want to give this context because uh there's many different thoughts on like how bitcoin will scale as many different like uh things there's also i mean 2017 we had a whole fork over on one uh that topic with like lightning or like increasing the block size and all of those

31:06things so uh but i but there is this narrative of we need the fiat system there's need to be like all those instruments on top of bitcoin to fin order for it to be money and then there's the more like it will all be native on bitcoin we have things like feddy and lightning and all those things because i think i hope most people agree that like natively on the on the main chain on bitcoin probably we won't scale do to everyone um so like we need some kind of of of scaling mechanism for for bitcoin as money how how do you think bitcoin will scale in over time yeah first of all i think this question is uh the the reason we're talking about it at all is because we come from a fiat paradigm where uh scaling is an issue or where we need to scale because there's so many payments

32:07going on everywhere and and people people transact all the time because we we are uh under these this kinsian we live in a system that's built on the kinsian notion notion of new value being created every time a dollar bill changes hands so that's basically the the the underlying thesis of kins is the more people trade the more value is created and therefore money printing is good somehow uh because because it discounts it doesn't take into the equation that people start spending on more and more frivolous things on more and more or on on less on quality and more on quantity which which makes it's the end-scientification of everything right so uh on a bitcoin standard however and and mind you the a bitcoin standard is not a gold standard it is way better than that and it is completely different from a gold standard uh on a gold standard the prices of everything

33:11went up at the same rate as the price of gold meaning uh that it was easier and easier to produce all the other shit and it was easier and easier to dig out gold out of the ground and you know as it becomes easier to dig out to build a digger it becomes cheaper to to extract more gold from the ground so so a cow-priced in gold has been the same for five thousand years approximately it's about the same now as in the days of Mesopotamia um bitcoin however reflects the true nature of the free market which is deflation so all prices will drop forever and the the kinsians are afraid of this because they think will uh that leads to deflationary death spiral and no one will buy anything which is clearly not true if you just look at a uh uh computers for instance which have been falling in price for the last 50 years and people buy more and more of them every year this is called javans paradox when when things fall in price uh people buy more of it not less so uh

34:18still bitcoin sort of forces you to think twice before you buy something because you will not have those sats anymore and they will be harder and harder to reaccumulate once you've spent them and they will go up and value over time so you will afford more and more uh what this leads to in the long run is people craving less shit and craving and still buying more uh they want quality over quantity meaning fewer transactions so i think uh i imagine a future like i'm trying to imagine it but it's so hard because it's such a different world so it's almost impossible to predict but imagine a society that has lived on a bitcoin on a pure bitcoin standard for 500 years i don't think in in such a world that you would buy that you would put a sat into the uh uh into a machine to go into to go to the bathroom at suric central station for instance you or viana central station instead you would buy a one once in a lifetime lifetime

35:24subscription to all the railroads in europe and you would pay it once because the merchant knows that the earlier he can get the payment the better office incentivizing them to to uh uh give you more for less uh given that the payment is earlier so so i think fewer transactions will happen and especially if you take number go up into account there's another example of if you have 10 poor people uh uh uh who are friends uh for 10 days and they uh they need to buy something to eat every day the the poor people will buy noodles uh and they will each go and buy noodles for themselves so there's a hundred transactions whereas the wealthy people will buy each other dinner every night and they will take turns and take in the bill meaning there's 10 transactions there so the wealthier you are the the less recent uh the fewer reasons you have to spend money uh many times per day so i think there

36:30there's a lot of factors playing in here that we completely uh there are complete removed from the Bitcoin scaling debates because we're not taking into account what what what it does to our psychology having having a money that you don't need to exchange that often so so i think the the the scaling problem is to a certain extent at least a fictitious problem we don't need uh that many scaling solutions and having said that we have the lightning network which allows for a factor of the transactions on a layer two and if you look on chain today that's there's not very many on chain transactions anyway blocks are very far from full uh i mean there's a lot of spam and shit in them but there's not very many just plain or plain all the on-chain transactions people and i think a lot of that is just people transacting on the lightning network instead um so so there's that

37:30yeah this is very true i i transect probably every second week in in Bitcoin on chain uh for different reasons and the fees are super like you you send a thousand dollars uh in Bitcoin and you pay like 40 cents for it also like some like 300 cents or something like that it's like almost nothing yeah it's ridiculous um and this is a really interesting perspective i've never like literally never heard that on my on the podcast uh people that like in a Bitcoin world and it makes a lot of sense that we have less transactions because we have different incentives instead of buying a netflix subscription every single month you buy um either once a year or like for 10 years before or maybe even like just for lifetime access yeah and i i am yet to encounter anyone who has a good counter argument to this i i want this theory to be debunked because it's my own pet theory and but i haven't heard any good arguments against it um it's just that i i think scaling is not

38:37and a lot of things when we talk about a lot of things in in Bitcoin it's this one dimensional thinking it's same with the tailor it tailor missions and those bullshit ideas like that i as a no-runner should care about minor revenue like i have no i don't care about that at all mining is set up in such a way that it's supposed to be a zero-sum game it's supposed to be that's why we have the difficulty adjustment so so that no one can can leverage the fact that they have a money printer that's that that's like it's designed to not do that so so i don't i don't think we ought to give miners more ever like uh and when when we run out of block rewards and we rely on fees or uh we we'll have to then the miners who have other use cases for their rigs will be rewarded so if you're heating your home with a Bitcoin miner then uh and as a secondary effect of

39:37that you're you're securing the network i mean i don't think thinking of mining as as the crucial thing is it's not it's not an accurate picture of what Bitcoin is i view miners miners as providers of block space and we the the node runners or the users i should say the users including all custodial users and whatever all all people who interact with Bitcoin we pay the miners in the reward and the fee by allowing them to mine that for themselves uh through running nodes signaling the the rules that that we um uh we are okay with so we we are their employers uh not the other way around and if it ever stops being that way then Bitcoin isn't Bitcoin anymore and this is what the people forking off think uh now the Blake 2 be people uh uh some of them uh are close friends of mine

40:42and they truly believe that Bitcoin has been captured and i don't and i can go into that later on here because i know you're gonna ask about that stuff i i i i i i i i this perfect segue because i literally just wanted to start with that um i with micro seed you can engrave your 12 or 24 words seed phrase the entire seed phrase onto a one inch small washer yes just one washer all 24 words on that one washer you can hide that thing everywhere and even better you don't need to buy a new kit every time you have to get a new wallet you can make unlimited backups because micro seed is not selling the washer micro seed is selling the device that stamps the washer you get the full kit with the device with the washers with the hammer with everything you need to get started today and you can make with that unlimited amount of backups go now to micro seed dot i own i finally and officially mine bitcoin this is not just something to stack most

41:49touches but it's most importantly also to support the network individual miners are the ones they keep the bitcoin network decentralized and by the way you get k y c free bitcoin that's why i use simple mining i get an actual proper bitcoin miner they set it up for me they repair it if it breaks down and most importantly they let me choose the pool and even connect my own full note i'm completely solvent and i'm completely in control and i can sign up with ocean no account needed i just give them a bit of address and then there's mining going on no k versy nothing so if you're ready to mine bitcoin go to simple mining dot i all tell them you come from robin and let's mine bitcoin together how do i start that i'm aware that we are in an echo chamber in the bitcoin podcasting world especially as every time i go out on a normal like friends party where i only know like two

42:49people and like 80% of people don't know me and i ask them about bitcoin what they hear and it's always fun to like hey are you aware of bitcoin yeah you are aware okay do you have some bitcoin do you know what like the cold card event was like what pipontan is they like you have no cool and actually i i also be try to be aware in the podcast because i think there are just people that maybe haven't paid attention to my podcast in like two or three or four months and have never heard about pipontan i mean i've done also that before but anyways that's where i'm asking a question what is pipontan to trust or like they bring like the the common knowledge in the room of like what was this about and what just happened in the past like i think like nine for four August or so it was yeah rather what was pipontan because it's not a thing anymore well it was a suggested soft fork a user activated soft fork to bitcoin's consensus rules which failed to implement

43:56and some people see that as the miners were now rebelling against the nodes and a bitcoin is not bitcoin anymore so therefore they're hard working off the this specific user activated soft fork was suggested after bitcoin core made an upgrade to the default member policy rules member policy rules are are lighter rules on top of bitcoin's consensus rules so each node decides what to relay around the network and want not to relay however the reaction to change that core made which was changing the memple default the memple filter default value for op return i i realize how insanely technical this sounds to a non-technical person but basically making room for enormous files

44:59in bitcoin now it's already possible to put big files in bitcoin but you have to put them into into several transactions and do this in that it's more complicated without this now there's a designated space to do that if you upgrade to core v30 or or beyond and therefore there was a reactionary soft fork suggested which was suggested by the bitcoin notspeople this already made it complicated because it was a different implementation of of bitcoin core that suggested it so the core people weren't on board in the first place i was pro this fork mostly because not because of the op return thing but because the taproot thing because it disabled op if and op if is an as a as a code in in taproot as an op code in in taproot op code that that basically makes it possible for

46:00people to do if then statements in a bitcoin transaction however 99.98% of these were not even executable meaning that they were just used push shit data in those fields because it was cheaper to put the shit data there than anywhere else this is my layman's technical understanding of it i also liked bit 110 because i i think it would have sent a clear signal to core that they can't just get away with stuff that the community isn't for and i was for it for several reasons also it was a very minor fork it only limited a bunch of six different things i think in in bitcoin's code so that transactions were now as long as you were using bitcoin as money you wouldn't the fork wouldn't affect you at all basically only if you had a super complicated

47:04inheritance planning multi-seg you set up and stuff like that with scripting in it so anyway i was for the fork and i did what i could to make it happen and then came August 8th where mandatory signaling was supposed to start for miners and pretty soon it became clear that the miners had ignored the fork not rejected but ignored the fork so usually when there's user activated software on the table you need a user rejected software to to make it not happen however the miners in this case chose to just ignore it which they also can do but there's a risk to that and the risk theoretically is for economic for the miners that these it was estimated around 5,000 nodes ran signal for bit 110 miners signaling was super small but

48:07nodes signaling was about 15% of the network the risk is that any incoming bitcoin transaction running through these nodes the miners would not get any part of the fees from from those nodes so you're discluting a bunch of nodes for really no good reason because you could have just implemented the fork and then everyone would have been okay with that because no one was signaling against it so it's a bit the game theory example that people give is the blue button and the red button and if if everyone presses the if more than 50% press the blue button then everyone survives however if people press the red button everyone who pressed the red button survives and in this case the miners chose to push the red button so a certain percentage of those that pressed the blue button were killed and this is the people that are now forking off so bitcoin core will not enjoy the fees

49:11that would have been paid by these people through their nodes by accepting incoming bitcoin transactions through their nodes any longer because they actively chose to reject that had they just let the software happen then everyone would still be on bitcoin including the bitcoin 10 people including the people who are now forking off and including all the spammers like everyone would still have been here but for some reason they chose not to implement it even though it's like a milk chocolate software it didn't do very much at all it's your only limited a couple of fields but the community is very afraid of consensus rule changes even consensus rule changes to the that strict usability so so the question then becomes and this is the tricky one because the the people who are now forking off they believe that the miners did this because they are corrupt and they're in bed with the spammers and the scammers and they don't no longer care

50:17what the nodes think therefore they do whatever they want because they don't think of this as anything important I see it differently so so the other theory just to have the two scenarios here so that that is what the people forking off or thinking other people are thinking the movement simply didn't have enough economic power to matter at all we can just ignore these people and the one part of the reason that they can do that is that mining is sort of centralized you have ant pool and the foundry the biggest two pools have like 30% each of the network so in order for the other scenarios to play out where there's sort of a domino effect and one miner starts signaling then the other miner needs the signal and blah blah blah and and then all dominoes fall in order for that to happen one of these big ones needed to flip the bit first and no one wanted wanted to be the first one who flipped it so the question becomes is that because they're all corrupt to 100% or is it because we had no

51:23economic power at all and I think the answer the true answer is somewhere in between I think we didn't have enough economic power to because they had to weigh this against a bunch of other things which is including their standing with certain prominent voices so such as Sailor Adam back like who were against with 110 if the mining pools had gone gone along with it they would have been they would have jeopardized a bunch of potentially important business relationships related to their specific business in the future because some people were specifically against this why they were against it is another matter altogether I mean why would anyone be against limiting spam like is it because they want to spam themselves is it because they're invested in one of these companies like if you follow the money in a lot of Bitcoin companies if fiat Bitcoin companies

52:27I should say like Bitcoin magazine for instance a lot of those people run a thing called UTXO Management which is actively funding the taproot wizards which are actively putting shit on chain and there's a bunch of these connections between people and I don't think it's that black and white I think it's a combination of mining being too centralized and our nodes not having enough economic power because to be honest the the reason we had 5,000 nodes is that both Umbrell and start nine saw record numbers record sales a couple of months leading up to this and these are newly fired up nodes that flebs who all of a sudden realized they have to participate in this battle both and fired up but they never had a singling coming transaction through them because most people have a node it runs but they're not connected to they're not using it the way Bitcoin was intended

53:30to be used they're not verifying every single incoming transaction through their own node that's that's how most people do this and that's why Bitcoin is simultaneously the most robust and the most fragile system in the world ever I I've what I've come to realize is that this blue red button scenario is now reversed because now Bitcoin should be stronger after this fork and it is stronger but that's only true if everyone stays if people fork fork off it's not stronger but but if in the hypothetical scenario that everyone stayed including Luke and mechanic and Crater and everyone that was environmentally on the big one ten side then Bitcoin would have had a better chance of surviving the next attack because we now know we have more information now not only about network dynamics

54:31and what happened and how this played out we also have way more information about who to trust and who not to trust because a crisis reveals people's true character true character and I think this is my biggest takeaway from this whole battle because so many people have revealed themselves to be I mean not honestly not people that I really want to be friends with because they instead of instead of making moral choices they made choices based on other things such the beginning of our conversation there's a reputation of damage narrative for instance I don't buy that for second and no so so I saw what happened I'm not going anywhere I hate the questions of what are you're going to do are you're going to sell your fork coins or you're going to sell yours like that is the new so how many big coins do you have that normies ask you right it's like it's very impolite

55:33to ask someone what they how much money they have and what they're going to do with it like it's just it's no one else's business and everyone in this who plays this right now has the fork coins and has the normal coin I'd like to flesh this out a bit more if I may from from the very base layer of a big coin is here so of course yeah big coin is the ability to set the rules for the money you accept yourself so you can you can set whatever rules you want to be the rules that you obey by for for your money and this is a layer below or a foundational layer even deeper than anything in big coins code it means you at the end of the day big coin is just this fixed this agreement on a fixed set of rules

56:37and which rules we agree upon is or which rules you choose to agree upon is entirely up to you that's why you buy hardware and run certain software rather than other types of software right that's the rules that you obey by the the thing is if you choose the wrong rules set or not wrong is the wrong word if you choose another set of rules then everyone else does you can lose a lot of money because you're now on a much smaller network so it's sort of like I like the analogy of the rules of chess they they change very rarely and everyone agrees to what chess is you can you can take a chess board and remove half of the pieces and call that chess and claim that this is now chess and try to play with people and some people will play with you and some people will will view that that fork of chess as the real chess in the future but you won't have as at all as many players

57:40to play with and this is what happened with Becon Cash and and who chose to play on a ginormous chess board with the same amount of pieces basically but and I I expect this will be the thing that happens with the Blake 2B coin however your right to do that is like one of the fundamental aspects of solution to the bison time generals problem, Byzantine generals problem which is this problem in computer networking that Becon saw if you don't believe that the the general whispering in your ear is telling the truth anymore your right to fork off and use another system is is absolutely crucial and fundamental and without it Bitcoin can't resist certain attacks there are scenarios in which we will be forced to fire all the miners and make all of their equipment useless by doing

58:41exactly what the Blake 2B people are doing right now I don't think this was the correct hill to die on and I don't think this will be the new Bitcoin I think there it's this new coin is inherently centralized because it's spearhead obviously spearheaded by one developer so it's already centralized from the get go and that is a problem in itself and I think it's a blind spot of the people who are now forking off unfortunately I think that is true I some of these people are really good friends of mine and I don't wish to lose the most friends because of a difference of opinion but this is how I feel about it and this is my analysis of the situation and I I hope that one day or that they will never leave the other chain either because I think the the only way the other chain survives is if or not the only way maybe but it would be much stronger if they stayed

59:46but I do understand their point of view if you think that Bitcoin is now corrupted and that it has now failed or is on a slippery slope to just become another shit coin then your right to fork off is the most fundamental thing and all of this happened we isn't it fantastic that we can do all of this and we can have all these feelings and outbursts and people can block one another and do it and none of it has any violence like it's it's all without violence it's non aggression in practice we can some people say I will never talk to you again it's still not violence it's just it's just communication that's what I love about it and the fact that it's decentralized it was makes it so messy and but we shouldn't be afraid of the messiness the messiness is part of the beauty of the system that's what leaderless means like if if you base your opinion on whether you

1:00:49ought to fight for one side or another in a battle on the outcome the predicted outcome of the battle then you're misunderstanding the entire system like this is about manning up and taking a stance not about following a tribe like that was never the thing this is you know getting Bitcoiners to get along is like hurting cats it's it's a group of individuals that get along by by saying all right I accept this but no more this is where I draw my line like it so we can we can tolerate spam but that doesn't mean we like it or that we want it to be promoted we can tolerate all sorts of stuff but we have to draw the line somewhere and there will be a battle in the future where we will have to actually draw a line and and to not risk Bitcoin

1:01:50becoming another shit coin where the miners are in charge because if the miners are actually in charge there is no Bitcoin anymore your Bitcoin is worthless because they there is nothing stopping them from just giving them from ignoring a halving for instance and then when you're back to Fiat it's fucked it can make you rich over it can make you rich over 20 years but it's still if it comes to that it's still fucked so you're not doing anything for your grandchildren if that's the case so I personally believe that this was not that fight but it has prepared me for the real fight because there will be a real fight in the future this was almost it I am less convinced about about the decentralization of Bitcoin at this point but I'm I'm not entirely uncompressed either I still think Bitcoin is is legacy Bitcoin is the real Bitcoin unworth fighting for I was never on board with

1:02:54any hard fork I'd never said anything like that before or after the fork I don't know what to do with my Blake 2B coins it could be interesting to just see what happens with them and how that plays out but I have no interest in putting my life energy and effort into that project no how is it actually working because I think people are confused they have maybe a wallet they are exchanges like is is how is it working with getting a Blake 2B coin and like having a legacy legacy Bitcoin yeah so so the way I understand it I haven't been paying 100% attention to it but they the new algorithm allegedly starts kicking into place on the 1st of September and that will build on the BIP 110 chain which actually mind how many blocks like seven blocks or something in total I

1:03:56think so these blocks have been mined in parallel I've it's it's seven blocks actually roughnecks roughnecks roughnecks 807 new your post something 8021 new your post 8022 and so people are mining still on the BIP 110 chain and those that's the chain that this will build upon and it will use another hashing algorithm called Blake 2B I think it's called Blake 2B and that will render all the old ASICs used for SH8256 completely useless so you now have a more decentralized pool of miners the miners are more decentralized on that chain allegedly because of this and with this chain has now fired the other miners however I I see it as having other obvious

1:04:56problems one being centralizedation another one is that they're so small that they will that they're much easier to 51% attack all of that and also also the the definition of Bitcoin is the heaviest or longest valid chain right and most people have that criteria in mind when they when they talk about what Bitcoin is and most people don't see the BIP 110 chain as the valid chain but the legacy chain so yeah for coffin find out I guess and it's going to be interesting to see what happens with it I hope that and and this is one thing I like about it is that most of the people the who have

1:05:58been vocal about wanting to do that wanting to fork off and why you should do that and they have never given any neither creditor or mechanic have given any direct advice to people like financial advice that you should do this it's still up to you do your own thinking like it's the life of Brian scene you know you're all different and then everyone chance yeah we're all different and a guy raises his hands a hand and says no I'm not like like we have to be individual thinkers in this otherwise it doesn't work like so so each to his own I guess I for now I'm not going anywhere until until convinced that going going somewhere else is a good idea and I'm not convinced at this point I'm not convinced that Bitcoin is completely corrupt and I'm not convinced that the other fork will work neither but I also I have my concerns I think I think a lot a lot of changes

1:07:09still need to happen in Bitcoin changes to the culture and changes to how we view this thing and changes to first and foremost the notion Bitcoin is money everyone should if there's anything to ossify is that notion Bitcoin is money it's nothing else it's money like if we can ossify that in people's minds then then I'm happy long round long rambling round I love it you're also one of the I want to be careful with the question I'll piss probably a few people off but I don't care you're one of the pure bit coiners one of the few this is really pure and I when someone tells me all like Knude likes it it's for me like a really interesting filter because I'm like okay then I will still do my own work but it gives me kind of like a small stamp of approval that it's at least worth my time to look into it further so with with that being

1:08:14said what how do you define shithcoins and and I ask ask that specifically because a lot of people the legacy chain now called Blake to be coin a shithcoin and it's like okay where do you how does Bitcoin become a shithcoin and how does something forking off become either the new Bitcoin or or shithcoin and I bring that up also because the Bitcoin cash people have been in my comment section for three years now and they bring similar arguments actually not similar arguments but like a similar tone to what the people that are now forking off bring of like Bitcoin is captured it's it's not decentralized anymore it's not the valid chain anymore BTC Bitcoin cash or BSV or like all those other things this is the real Bitcoin and and so like how do you troll a line of like what's a shithcoin and what's the actual Bitcoin yeah it's a super good question

1:09:18so it requires a bit of another rant here I think so the Bitcoin cash people like what happened in 2017 is super interesting especially given the result of because there there was a user activated software on the table then called BIP 148 which was forcing miners to adopt segwit basically but this was never implemented it never went through what the miners did instead was signal for BIP 91 I think it's called I problem remembering these numbers but BIP 91 was I think if I remember correctly the one that lowered the threshold for segwit to activate from 95% to 80% so the first had to 95% agree to lower the bar to 80% to then have another vote about segwit and then it activated and also there was

1:10:23something called the New York Agreement which was basically all the big companies in Bitcoin getting together in a room in New York and signing an agreement that they would implement segwit as a software and then a couple of months later they would increase the block size to two megabytes the base block size I mean effectively segwit was a block size increase increasing blocks to up to four megabytes because you could squeeze other data into it now however the community simply rejected the the two X upgrade which was how it would have required a hard fork but the segwit software happened and so the question becomes how much impact did BIP 148 have and at the time I thought it had a lot of impact and it was one of the reasons that I I became so convinced about Bitcoin functioning long-term as a system because we were really the David's versus their Goliath

1:11:26with the the the small pleb one over the big ginormous big Bitcoin let's say we won over big big Bitcoin big time and it's seemingly because we were threatening them with this user activated software BIP 148 the stakes were kind of different because everyone was pro segwit basically except for G-Han Wu and Antpool I mean bit main the company that makes the asix the reason they were against it is something called asix boost which is a patent they have and it's debatable whether that actually was ever if it ever went live or not but that would have increased their chances of finding a block by 15% in comparison to all other miners and this wouldn't work if segwit activated so that's sort of the only reason for him to be against it

1:12:29was that it would prevent asix boost and then the question becomes was it really BIP 148 that made him change his mind or not and I'm not as convinced now after BIP 110 failed as I was back in in 2017 when I saw this happen live then again it might have been it might have been BIP 148 and then the environment is so different now so it's much harder to do the user activated software for BIP 110 another thing is that BIP 110 did not have community consensus the community tolerated it because no core node would have rejected BIP 110 blocks in effect since every BIP 110 block followed all the other rules is just a tightening of the rules but still it didn't go through and many things we have gone through that all the things I could have played into that

1:13:30so what's the shit coin and what's Bitcoin? I think that for many of the Bitcoin cash people Bitcoin cash is the real Bitcoin and as I said before they have every right in the world to think that because this is the underlying base layer even deeper than any code even before any code you you that no one has a patent on the word word Bitcoin it didn't matter that Roger Vier bought Bitcoin dot or Bitcoin dot com the community didn't care like we're supposed to uh it's this funny thing because it's so ephemeral like with anyone can claim that anything is Bitcoin I can claim that this AC remote controller here this is Bitcoin according to me and from a certain perspective I'm right because I have all the right in the world in the world to do that

1:14:30however I also as an individual have a right to define what constitutes a shit coin and my my definition of it is that you can you have two main categories and one of them is craft occurrences and the other one is kleptocurrencies and the craft occurrences are the other cryptos of course and the kleptocurrencies are the fiat currencies that steal from you all the time and if you have a stable coin you have a bit of both it's both the craps of an klepto so but I think for the most part there's Bitcoin and then there's shit coins so there and there can only be one there can only be one Bitcoin at the time two chains can't be Bitcoin at the same time you have to pick one for yourself and go with that one otherwise you

1:15:32you miss the point entirely you can't have 42 million coins all of a sudden uh that sort of defines the defies the whole purpose of the thing so there's bitcoins and there's shit coins and uh I believe Bitcoin to be Bitcoin um the legacy Bitcoin if you will to be Bitcoin at this moment and everything else to be a shit coin including the Blake one Blake to be chain uh however if it turns out over time that that fork was actually a good thing and that legacy Bitcoin was the was the actual fork and that that was the Bitcoin miners that forked off and not the plebs then that would be the the real chain uh but yeah this is just to say that this this might not be as easy as it once seemed it seemed very easy for me back in the day when when when things were less complicated because you didn't understand uh didn't understand all this stuff on on a

1:16:33sufficiently deep level let's say uh then it was easier because then was just Bitcoin and shit coins however I still think there's Bitcoin and shit coins it's just that I'm more accepting that that is a completely individual perspective like with any other valuation it's up to the individual to to define those words to themselves the the the uh the thing is though that if you if you choose the wrong definition you can lose a lot of money if you say that something that isn't Bitcoin is Bitcoin then you're at risk of losing a lot of money I don't think I'm at risk of losing a lot of money by seeing the Bitcoin cash is the shit coin it's true it's also so interesting because like in a way like if if someone says plague to be coin is a shit coin and Luke says know the legacy chain is is the shit coin both are both right but one might have to suffer consequences

1:17:38if he stays at the wrong on the wrong on the actual shit coin all like the the the one that people don't agree with yeah yeah no no it's and it's up to him and uh I mean some things are still true on that chain one btc equals one btc it's just that one btc does not equal the same amount of purchasing power anymore uh I think it's that uh as you also mentioned I think this at the the Dagon I I'm a big fan and I'm I'm still uh mining with ocean for example I've like I think nine or ten minus running at ocean I love it um funny enough I do it with simple mining and I contributed to this third block that uh simple mining uh did uh so I was uh some whole the one the one that killed bit one ten yeah I was uh in that very block yeah I mean but

1:18:39that says something like I don't I don't really understand why so many people left ocean after this whole debacle because to me that proved that ocean is the best fucking thing ever because it didn't care like uh it it truly gives power back to the to the user so so I hope with every bone in my body that ocean survives this because I think ocean and datum are the real innovations here and the really important things here the the things that will solve centralized mining uh and uh yeah it's I certainly hope that fixes it I I also hope that there's the some people say that it will fix itself and to a certain extent I agree if both foundry and ample slowly but surely uh hop over to AI instead of Bitcoin mining that good good on them go ahead

1:19:39um yeah I talked with I talked with Bob and that around that uh yeah I think because I was curious and he's like like an expert in that field I would consider him to be and uh he mentioned that it's actually a good thing that the public traded companies are now focused more on mining which makes it more decentralized because this gives more chance to act that more on AI yeah also more on AI this gives a chance for smaller miners to uh be involved in Bitcoin like he hears this model with I think rabbits horses and elephants if I'm not mistaken oh yeah yeah yeah that they're more rabbits and horses that mine and not only the elephants yeah that's great it is truly great uh as long as the drop off if isn't too fast because that's a risk in itself too but that's a whole different discussion that's don't get into that uh however yeah I like that a lot and and I truly hope that this is the thing in the end that saves Bitcoin

1:20:46that the next time we have to fight a fork war and there will be a next time uh then mining will be more decentralized so a user activated softwork will have a bigger chance of succeeding uh also the filters will work more efficiently because of decentralized mining it's harder to get a liberary relay propagated bullshit block with big operatons actually into a block if mining was more decentralized that wouldn't be as easy as it is now so everything everything gets better decentralized mining I have one last note or question on the end which I think is is I love a lot it's Bitcoiners are the most disagreeable people I've ever met I've I've not known I love that I love that kind of humor for second I think shit I needed to uh I

1:21:49needed to process the you on the left for second yeah and so uh having said that it's it's so cool to see the community like still like being mostly like so friendly to each other so peaceful to each other I I know that there's like a lot of disagreements and I've seen people that like massively are on acts hating on each other and then I see them at a conference and they like having a peer peer together and uh just having a good time so it's like my last three years and in Bitcoin made me really actually hopeful and and and believing in the in the prosperous of the Bitcoin community overall because I've seen how strongly we disagree but still can be friends and can be working together and can do all those things together I don't know if you've experienced the same thing but I I really like I have absolutely experienced the same thing but I also see that's a double sided coin there's a risk

1:22:53to that too if if if we get too friendly with one another we get apologetic and when when our friends if we don't call our our friends out when they do shitty things then we're not honest people like if you allow a friend of yours to go down some scammy uh route or start shit-coining or start doing whatever suspect suspicious thing then that's that's not a good thing so I see that the risk of risk and we you and I are definitely exposed to this risk problem I think because we're podcasters so we're in our job description there's diplomacy like we have to stay friends with we can't be too toxic to our guests because then not only will they not come back but other guests will also be reluctant to come on because they know that we will not be kind to them uh there is a risk here and the same is true for conferences it gives Bitcoiners a an incentive to be more

1:23:59on the agreeable side than the disagreeable side and the in the early years there were no conferences and there were no podcasts so then you only had this extremely disagreeable bunch that that had to get along somehow and that's why Bitcoin works because of adversarial thinking and disagreeability I think that's at yeah and I also have a a theory about there's a correlation between when you came into Bitcoin and how agreeable you are so like in the beginning you have your Eric Bosque Ulz and your Greg Maxwell's and and they are you know well your Satoshi Nakamoto's for that matter and and Nick Sabo's not very agreeable people in general and then you get slightly more agreeable as you get along I guess Andreas Antonopoulos falls into that category but still still a lot of disagreeableness in people like Max Keiser for instance isn't the most agreeable person ever

1:25:05and then you get them to the next generation you get people like me or Giacomo or Max Hila Brando quite agreeable but also disagreeable and then you get your Robin Sayers and your Joe Nakamoto's then the next generations who are very much more more agreeable than we are and I think there there is a magic point there where where you have the perfect balance between diplomacy and disagreeability and this is one thing Giacomo talks about a lot like if you have hardcore cypher punk values here and you have the total diplomacy and a total adoption here like you need to you need to find your as a Bitcoin or especially as a public Bitcoin and you need to find your spot on this line like where where am I and what do I really want to do promote cypher punk values or do I want adoption whatever it takes and you have on this end you have David Bailey who doesn't give a crap about who invites to his conference and he can have actual feds on stage uh everything is good for

1:26:09Bitcoin everything is good for Bitcoin and you have cypher punk values uh so if you're some someone like Luke Dasher okay I'm gonna fire the fucking miners fuck off every one of you this is the real Bitcoin now so where where where are you on that scale and it's it's tricky to tricky to find your place on it and and there are arguments to be made for being more agreeable there are arguments to be made to be for being more disagreeable and I don't think this is this isn't a simple thing because you want you want to promote Bitcoin companies but a lot of Bitcoin companies become scam companies after a while I mean back in the day I used to recommend blockchain.info I wouldn't recommend that to my worst enemy at this point right because it's a shit coin casino so you never know uh times change people change apps change software changes uh

1:27:10you'll have to find your own way of of navigating the whole thing I guess then one more question came up to me mind uh with that yeah I have uh 15 more minutes um with the adoption coming along and more people using Bitcoin obviously the type of people inside of Bitcoin will change naturally and like I don't know if I'm agree with uh the uh so funny for me I created the people coming later will uh are more more agreeable than the early people um but uh this will also then change it at some point the the toxic purists if I just call call it like that now I will be in a very very very small uh uh minority at that point is is that uh is that a inherent danger of Bitcoin being more sovereign? yeah like uh I see it already now the Bitcoin 10 failed from a certain account saying that they

1:28:14want a new form of Bitcoin maximalism now where we're maximalists but we're not toxic maximalists anymore we we want to be able to get along more and we shouldn't say that you have to be a carnivore if you're into Bitcoin and all all sorts of like biased versions of what toxic maximalism is but I think there's an actual super dangerous thing going on there uh because it's sort of uh the woke creep in politics which it starts out nice like woke is and I think came from an urge to not be rude to other people so and there's nothing wrong with striving not to be rude to other people but when it all of a sudden means that you uh you have to you have to apologize for assuming their gender then something has gone terribly wrong because uh then you lost some truthfulness along the way and I think this is what Bitcoin maximalism the friendly version as opposed to

1:29:19the toxic Bitcoin maximalism does if you don't set up clear boundaries and clear definitions of words like Bitcoin is money then uh you end up in this relativist bullshit uh world that that we're already in we already know where that ends that is the fiat world we're living in it ends with you know same-sex bathrooms at cinemas and uh and uh a a a doom stay cult that thinks the world will burn within 20 years uh having like 20 percent of the votes in in several countries across Europe like it's it's it's it's it's it leads to all sorts of Marxist bullshit and I and I don't like that yeah that's a good argument actually like the the the beginning creep of just striving to be uh a kind person which I think is something like good to do but then also being kind to bad ideas to

1:30:26to ideas that you should reject also like allowing like I discussed that at length with I think Rashad Sony on on a podcast like a few months ago are you a good friend to a friend if he's fat and you're not telling him that he should work out and he should uh like not be fat because fat is not something you should be celebrated for no and and and like you should be uh very honest with him and say you're fat and do something um you can say it in a friendly way but there's like uh movement of positive body positivity of like yeah I'm fat and I'm like proud of it it's it's it's it's just not um how do I say it's not healthy it's not a good thing no no no and I mean that this is this is such a a broad topic but it's relevant everywhere in the world right now because it's it's still we we're still woke ism is in a sense over but in a sense not I mean the the

1:31:32effects of woke ism and uh how so many institutions are now in place that that actually uh fight for these fictitious problems to be solved it's it's ridiculous and uh I think what what what we ought to do on an individual level is ask ourselves do I want to be an agreeable person or a principal like do I want to be liked for for sucking up to people or do I want to be liked for for uh standing true to my word and and being an honest honest honest upright person and I think being an honest upright person in on a Bitcoin standard that would be much more rewarded you wouldn't be rewarded rewarded for short term thinking anymore and for virtue signaling in the same way you're in the via economy so so there's one one of the things I hope Bitcoin will do to the human psyche at large uh that will take us away from this virtue signaling bullshit victimhood competition mentality

1:32:38which is just I mean be fat if you want but don't be fucking proud of it be proud of other men you can be fat and you can be fat and and have the things in your life that you're proud of I'm the perfect example I'm slightly fat but I've written a bunch of books that I'm really proud of like and I lost the lost a couple of kilos I'm happy about that I'm proud about that like what the fuck uh no I I think this is toxic maximalism is absolutely crucial for Bitcoin's longevity we we need it so hard and we need people who are who refuse to bow down and who refuse to change their their worldview or because of some popularity thing and I think Luke Dascher is one of these people and if he now leaves Bitcoin that's a pity because we need more looks not not fewer we need people

1:33:41that are willing to die on seemingly stupid hills uh they you know Hodlunod would have never won over Craig Wright if he would have been a guy that took the easy way out instead he've spent four years of his life fighting this legal battle against a billionaire and he won so I admire that so much like principle being principled is it's everything because it's the only thing that that saves humanity in the long run it's it's it's more important than people think I love that really cool um I unfortunately I have to stop here even though I really don't want to um we have a quick uh we have a quick entertain in the podcast with a previous guest asking a question for the next guest without knowing who the next guest actually is and uh he asked an interesting one actually

1:34:42what non-financial topic is the best opportunity to orange peel people oh what a good question what non-financial topic is the best well I could be boring here and say politics but uh I'd say uh well things that have to do with the self and uh self-actualization and uh realizations about creativity and yourself I guess hard questions to answer uh uh yeah something consciousness stuff I guess in that vein I think I'll take it thank you so much uh Knut for for being on the podcast um before let you go where can people find you things that you're doing and

1:35:45am I not supposed to ask the next guest the question then yes I usually don't do it online but if you already have it uh oh yeah I think the last one I did was what is the maximum velocity of an unlady and swallow so I've already done that I guess uh I remember that one uh uh uh uh uh uh without bitcoin is there hope that's a good question I guess yeah it's uh I like it um yeah yeah really cool then thank you so much uh uh Knut uh where where where people can find me online you'll find me on twitter uh at knut's for home uh bitcoin infinity.com you'll find all my books for sets they can also be found on amazon uh and yeah follow follow the bitcoin infinity show on on youtube and ex and uh there's a lot

1:36:50of good guests coming there too uh and yeah follow both robins for the mine and uh you'll you'll get uh a lot of bitcoin high quality bitcoin content and brushy t-shirt yeah at least I'm freshly developed that thank you so much Knut for being on the podcast and also thank you so much for everyone that is watching and listening for training us today as always I'll be back this content is for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice