Stop The Amway Tool Scam Scott Johnson and Peter Mingils talk about Texit Coin Shut down Herbalife Distributor Homicides on MLM News

0:00Welcome to Building Fortunes Radio. Make sure you check us out at BuildingFortunesRadio.com. Along with Kisk, our keep it simple circle marketing partners, we are here to help our UMungus AM and UMungus FM radio customers build their businesses and make the world a better place. At Building Fortunes Radio, we know how much your business means to you and the people important to you. So join us to make the world a better place. Spread the word, tell a friend, and go make a difference in your world. Now on to our show with your host, Peter Mingles. Take it away, Peter. Hello, everyone. Peter Mingles here. You are listening to us on Valentine's Day, believe it or not, on Building Fortunes Radio. It's WWW at Building Fortunes Radio. This is the Scott Johnson radio show. We do this every Saturday at 8.30pm Eastern 7.30 on the central side. I'm over in Florida, Scott's over in Texas. And for those people that are listening in, we've been doing these radio shows for a really long time.

1:00Starting back, I think in 2015, yeah, how'd it be 2015? And we did it in this radio show, like I said, a long time, been through a ton of stuff. And I got this little bit more personal for me. Nine years ago, yesterday, a really great friend of ours. Her name was Sally. She left this planet. She's with Jesus. Now, trust me, Sally's with Jesus. And she left this planet. And it's kind of interesting the way that whole thing worked. I'll tell that story while we're doing the radio show, just a memorial for Sally. But the reality is, is that we've been doing this radio show as a result of a previous series of radio shows they did with Roger Van Blissingen. Damn, really pro MLM when it's done right, and anti MLM when it's done wrong. And Roger Van Blissingen is a gentleman who was writing for seeking alpha. And he's really smart, dude. And as a really smart dude, he's making some very critical points on the right way against MLM.

2:01I invited him to be on this radio show, so he would be able to kind of share some of his experiences, which he did. He brought some backup with a gentleman, E. Robert Smith. Well, Scott Johnson heard those series of radio shows, and he called me up and he said, listen, Peter, I heard those, and those are good shows, but it's missing the point. And there's a big thing that a lot of people just never get. And I said, what's that Scott? And he said, the tool scam associated with MLM. And I, first time I had spoken to Scott, and I wasn't really sure exactly what he was meaning or thinking by saying the tool scam, so I asked myself, I wonder if he's thinking about the same thing I'm thinking about, because I had joined Amway 3 separate times. And I quit because it seemed like they were too busy pushing books, tapes, and functions, and recruit, recruit, recruit, and less on the product sales. And I understand the recruit part because you need that for building a business. But why do we have to read all these books, listen to all these tapes, and go to all these seminars?

3:03And that was me coming from a direct sales management background where I read books, I listened to tapes, and I went to seminars. The difference was they were focused on selling our products and self-development, and real good stuff, where there was kind of fluffy stuff going on with the Amway thing. And I said, I wonder if he's thinking about this, if he's talking about the same thing that I'm thinking about. And he was, so I asked him if he had a website, he said, I sure do, it's called, stop the Amway tool scam.wordpress.com. And that's when that sparked that conversation about the tools. But I said, I agree with you, Scott. There's a lot of people that are not talking about this, and maybe we should, so we'll do a couple of radio shows. We started, this time was a good time for him and me. And it kind of stuck because as we started speaking, Herbalife was going through what they were going through, Vima was going through what they were going through, Bill Ackman, a really smart hedge fund manager was going through what he was going through, relative to Herbalife. So we started doing these radio shows, and we've had them ever since. Sometimes we'll do them ourselves, like tonight.

4:04Sometimes we have great guests, like we've had recently. Sometimes they're about MLM, sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're kind of like a tangent of MLM, like you could draw the connections. Or sometimes they might just be people that we want to highlight and give a platform to. But tonight we're going to be all on our own. Dolo, and I want to say thank you to Scott Johnson, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have the same focus that we do on the Building Forces Radio Network. And I truly believe we wouldn't be able to help as many people out because we talk every week about some of the things we think you should know. And in essence, I'll say it this way, sincerely but somewhat playfully. If you listen to a half a dozen or so of our shows, you won't be fooled, or you won't be surprised, if you get scammed. Because we probably covered it one way or another. So you can make your own decisions. This is not financial advice. You do whatever you want. We don't know who's listening. We don't know who you are. We may care. Sometimes we may not care. Some other times, but the reality is,

5:05is that you could use this for whatever education you want. To be able to form your own decisions. And I'm going to blend a little bit of that in when we start talking about some of the conferences and some of the topics that we have today. But the first thing I want to do, say thank you to Scott Johnson for being here. Scott, thanks for being here on your own radio show. Hey, Peter, thanks for having me. And yeah, I guess I kind of gave away my secret agenda when I told you my website name. Yeah. It's for us to stop the M-way toolskip. But, you know, that is the main thing when it comes to M-way and other MLNs that have toolskamps. And for the new listeners, you know, we try to cover this towards the beginning of the show so they can kind of get oriented on where we're coming from. And so what that is in M-way, the tool scam is where the upline, you know, the people higher up in the organization, what they do is they sell education and motivational information to their downline. Back in our days, it was bookstakes and functions.

6:05You know, that was the cliche terms for tools. And it is still books and it still functions or meetings. But the tapes, eventually, were replaced with CDs and those have been replaced with electronic MP3, MP4 type downloads, you know, to a phone app and all that. So it's gone digital and gone, you know, non-physical as far as the media. And then also there's website access, there's voicemail, you know, there's all kinds of profit centers, if you will. And I don't have a problem with people making money. The problem with the M-way tool scam, or what makes a scam versus just a profit center, is the fact that the upline doesn't talk about how much money they make from the tools. And, you know, my poster child, who was just in the news again this past week, will get to that story pretty soon. A guy by name of Brighart, a B-R-I-G-H-A-R-T, you know,

7:07four letters in each name. And if you Google Brighart and Salt Lake City, because he gave an interview to a Salt Lake City media outlet in the early 2000s, I think it was. And at that point, he had been kicked out of M-way and he just started talking. He wasn't being asked particular questions or anything. He was just, you know, talking about what was on his mind. And what he said was, you know, I joined a new M-L-M and their pay plan is so much better than M-ways. You know, I'm making so much money. And these are my words, but he essentially said, I don't have to scam my downline on the tools anymore. And by the way, and this is Brighart in the interview, he said, I was making about a million dollars a year from M-way before I was kicked out. And I was making eight to ten million dollars a year from the tools. But he didn't say that while he was in. He only said it after he was kicked out. And there's several other individuals

8:08who made similar statements over the years, only after they were kicked out, of course. And I've collected those on my website. And so you can find those on that website that you mentioned. And I also have everything kind of centered around my Facebook page. And if you go to facebook.com slash stop the M-way tool scam, you might notice a pattern here. You'll find links to various websites and videos and so forth. You'll also find my input to the FTC when they requested information on product claims and income claims back in 2022, as well as my phone number and email, all that stuff. If anyone has any questions or comments, you know, feel free to reach out to me. But that's where all of that information is centered around. But you can also Google those words I just told the audience. If you just go to Salt Lake City and Brighart,

9:09you'll see that article pop up right away and you can read it yourself. And I always encourage people, don't believe what anybody says. Me, you, anybody else, unless you check them out. You know, check out their references, their sources, and see if they're telling the truth or if they're, you know, are they making stuff up or they exaggerating or they're taking something out of context, all those kinds of things, and check them out because there's nothing really more important than your own credibility. And the way to protect that is to be accurate. You know, once you start saying stuff that's either way off or a little bit off, people start to, and then they should question you. They should question everything that you say from there on it, you know, forward because, you know, they couldn't trust you on that. And so how can they trust you in the future? And that's why I'm very careful to be accurate, to be honest. And in the MLM world, it's really easy because there's so many just incredible stories

10:11that you don't have to make stuff up. In fact, some of the stories, I don't think you could make stuff up that's more extreme. And we'll talk about one of those probably tonight, too. So anyway, that's the tool scam. And that's why it's a scam. And it isn't the money. It's the fact that they pretend they lie by omission, you know, instead of saying something that's false, they leave out something that's true to give a different impression. That's the whole objective of lying by omission is to leave stuff out so that you're thinking, so this Amway business is really great. You have a great lifestyle. You're showing off all your yachts and mansions and jets and all your motor coaches, all those toys. And so there must be money here. And that's what gets people in and keeps people in is because that's what they're working towards. I always considered when I was in Amway for several years, you know, if I could just have half or a quarter of what they have,

11:13I'll be doing pretty good. So I don't have to have the whole thing. I can have, you know, some fraction of it, and I'll be doing just fine. Of course, I didn't know at the time they were making most of their money from the tools. So I think that's RICO fraud. And people can look up RICO, RICO. It was really a law that was written for the mafia back in the 1970s. And since that time, it's been used for all kinds of white color crimes. And I think the tools can fit that perfectly. But it is a difficult law to enforce in court. It's very complicated. There's lots of sort of what gets you have to get through successfully. And so it's not an easy thing to enforce. But I think it's also just plain business fraud, right? When you're in a business environment, and what the upline is essentially saying is, you know, I want to get in business with you. I want you to come into my business,

12:13and here's how it works. And they show it, but they only show the end waste side, not the tool scam side. To me, that's plain and simple fraud. I don't know why the FTC or the FBI, and I've contacted both multiple times over the years, haven't picked up on that. I just don't understand. But that's one reason we keep doing the shows to keep educating people, the FTC and the FBI a little bit to, you know, get their acts together, because a lot of people are being hurt by the tool scam. Now, the other big thing, because not all MLMs have tool scams, I want to be clear about that, is the lack of retail sales. And when I say retail sales, I'm talking about selling the products for a profit. And I think a 10% minimum markup should be sort of the guideline there, because after all, you're in business, and the objective of a business is to make money. So if you're just selling at cost,

13:14you're not making money, and you're not really in business, you're kind of going through the motions without really the right incentive and the right motivation. So that's what I say when I say you have a, at least a 10% markup is a minimum. And, you know, using that is kind of a guideline. But when I say customer, I'm also talking about someone who is not a distributor, right? They have not signed the MLM company contract. They're not eligible for the MLM compensation. And all they are is a customer, just like any store you might walk into physical or online. You know, you exchange your money for the good or service, and that's it. That's the deal. And that's what a customer is. Where's a distributor? As the judge in the, what was that case? The burn lounge case said very succinctly.

14:14That's why I like to quote him. He said very succinctly, very clearly, with a very few number of words. He said that distributors have a conjoined opportunity, or if you want to use a combined incentive or a combined motivation, they have two things together, whereas a customer only has one. A customer looks at an offer. You know, let's say it's a bottle of shampoo, for example. You know, is that bottle of shampoo worth this amount of money? And the answer in their own head is yes or no. And therefore they're either going to buy it or they don't. And that's a very easy calculation to make. Now a distributor is different. Because a distributor has a lot of incentives, actually, to buy the products. You know, one is to check them out, see if they're decent products, to see if they can stand behind them,

15:14to promote them, to either a potential future distributor or a customer. They also want to be loyal to their upline, because the upline is the one that's helping them. And by the way, the upline tells them you need to buy the products. You know, that's something that isn't just, you know, thought up by the distributor. It's actually taught by the upline. You know, you need to buy the products. You need to buy the tools. Because one of the things that's talked about over and over is if you want to get to where I am, you know, this is the upline talking. If you want to get to where I am, you've got to do what I did. I bought the products, and I bought the tools, and I took the instruction of my upline. And that's what you have to do, if you want to get to where I am. So that's kind of the, you know, kind of the environment, if you will. And also, you know, one of the major themes in any MLM, I think, is you have to work hard enough and long, enough to get filthy rich.

16:15And so it's not an overnight success story, like a lot of the anti-MLM people claim that that's what is being pitched. Now, it is pitched that way sometimes. I'm not saying it's never pitched that way. But generally, in my personal experience, and I was in Anway for several years, it's, you got to work hard. You know, it's not going to happen overnight. You know, this is a three to five-year plan, and you have to really apply yourself. You can't just poke at it with a stick every once in a while. You know, you have to work it. And, you know, that's part of the deal. So the lack of retail sales is actually what is an illegal pyramid. And that's what a lot of people haven't figured out either, including the FTC, by the way. It's amazing when you look on their website. You see all these different things that they talk about in the pyramid section. And it confuses even me. Excuse me. That's a cough there. They just go round and round with different ideas.

17:16And especially somebody that's new, you know, they're brand new to MLM and they go, gee, let me check out, you know, what's online, and they happen to come across the FTC website, and they're looking at that, you know, and it just kind of, it's into overload. They don't understand what they're reading, and it's just too complicated. Whereas, if, again, we use some examples from the FTC, the FTC settled with two companies back in 2016. That's a decade ago. Now, Peter, imagine that a decade ago, the FTC settled, which means they didn't go to trial. You know, they settled out a court before the trial. And in both cases, and I'm going to simplify a little bit here, as long as at least half of the products or services were being sold to customers, versus the distributors, then that was acceptable. Both to the FTC and VMA and Herbalife. So that's what I used as a baseline minimum,

18:19is 50% retail sales. And so that's what you have to do to prevent being an illegal pyramid. It's really straightforward. It's very simple. And by the way, I hope to explain this very soon, because I came across this just the other day, Peter, is that there's a new bill in Florida. It was just started back towards the end of last month, in the January, where they have a proposed bill to change their MLM law. And so it's being discussed, and it just got started. And I hope to make contact with those folks very soon. And, you know, even go out to Tallahassee, and I would love to be there face-to-face, talking with them. But that bill, you know, it's a baby bill right now, it just got started. And so hopefully I can get on in the front end of it, and have some influence there.

19:19And make sure that they understand, because most of the bills and the orientation that you see, you know, from the FTC, and most other people, it's sort of like at the beginning point of joining in the MLM, right? It's, did you have to pay money to join? You know, how much money did you have to pay? And where does the profit come from? Does it come from signing up people? You know, those are the kinds of things that they're focused on. But that's really a minor part of the overall scheme, because even though that is often a factor, it's a very minor factor, compared to the ongoing continuous purchases being made by the distributors, and not by customers, right? It's the lack of customers on an ongoing basis. That's really the source of an illegal pyramid.

20:19And I think what's happened here is the FTC is looking at this bright shiny object called the Coscott decision back in the mid-70s, where Coscott was charging new distributors up to $5,000 each in order to join. And when they did that, that enabled them to get a bigger discount so that if they had a downline, then they would get a bigger cut at the downlines input. And also if they had people who were just distributors that wanted to sell the Coscott stuff, then again, they would get a bigger cut. And so you could pay less than that. You could pay like $3,000 or $1,000. But then you wouldn't make as much, because you wouldn't be getting as much of a discount on the products or the new people signing up. So $5,000, by the way, in 1975, is now over $30,000. So can you imagine paying $30,000 to join an MLM?

21:22And so that's why I say that focusing on that is ridiculous, because MLMs just don't charge that kind of money to join. And the reason they don't is because of the Coscott decision. And so they stayed away from that big upfront cost and they've paired it down to things like 50, 60, 100 bucks, whatever. It's minuscule. It's really just not even significant to talk about because the amount of products that you purchase as a distributor on an ongoing basis is so much more significant than that initial input. And on top of that, for the last couple of years, AMway, and perhaps other MLMs, I don't know, but I know AMway is waiving the joining fee for the first year. And they're also waiving the tools, any cost for tools, only for the first year, though. And so, you know, AMway has already sort of

22:24doctored up their rules to where, well, gee, we don't charge anybody to join. And so that doesn't apply to us. So you see how they're sort of getting around these new rules that are coming around by doing that. And they're also, I believe, you know, cratering right now. I'm, AMway, I believe, is cratering big time. We talked about that recently. And they're trying to come up with ways to get more people to join, because they're just bleeding, you know, losses right now. They're shrinking, you know, very rapid manner. They're just trying to come up with new ideas to stop bleeding, basically. So anyway, you know, that's just some background information. But those are the two big things, you know, the tool scams and the lack of retail sales. And, you know, that's, you know, where we come from, that perspective of, hey, if you're doing these two things, you know, if you're either not scamming people or not, you know, charging, you know,

23:24much more than the cost of production, or if you're making a boatload of money, but you're honest about it, that's fine. And also, if you have the retail sales, that's fine. Now, if you're getting the retail sales by making product claims or income claims, those, you know, those kinds of things, then there's still some issues. But, again, those are secondary tertiary issues. Those are not the primary things, even though that's what the FTC is locked down right now. So anyway, that's some background information and we can get into, you know, what we want to talk, if you want to talk about Sally first, so we don't forget her, because I don't recall you talking about that. Maybe you have, and it's just been such a long time. I don't recall the story, but if you want to start with that, go ahead. Sure, absolutely. So a long time ago, I was with a company called Nutrition for Life. I told the story about how there was a chiropractic magazine

24:26and some of the editors of the chiropractic magazine wound up becoming my upline with that Nutrition for Life. There was a gentleman named Dr. Tom Klusman, and he had an assistant, which was somebody in his downline, and her name was Sally. And Sally and Dr. Tom, even though they weren't like executive and executive assistant, they were kind of always working again, and they did really great things. So Sally was just great as being like that perfect executive secretary she could organize the world. Well, Dr. Tom got, oh, we all, okay, not we all, myself, Sally, Dr. Mike, the lasarnics, five of us, wound up becoming partners in the company called Smart Networker. It was a network marketing company that we formed, so I owned it, owned part of it, and Sally was one of the partners. And when Dr. Tom got sick

25:27and the lasarnics decided that this wasn't the way things they want to do, we, meaning Sally and I, wound down, Smart Networker, because we knew that we didn't want, we wanted to keep it going as long as we could, even though we weren't going to actively be building it. But we want to make sure that anybody that earned a paycheck got it until the last paycheck was over. So that's what happened. So Sally was in Dallas, I'm over here in Florida, but we stayed in contact ever since. And then, the reason why she joined Smart Networker is because she wanted to be home at three o'clock, I might have the time wrong, but at three o'clock, when her daughter came home, her daughter is Katie. And when daughter Katie came home, Sally wanted to make sure that she would be there, so she could make the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches,

26:28that they would just kind of talk about how their day was, and she knew that this was her senior year in high school, and the time that Katie and Sally had a chance to talk together were priceless. And running a home-based business in an MLM company gave her that opportunity to be there at three o'clock, as opposed to if she was working with a company than she would never be there. So that was Sally. Now, Sally and I became super-duper close, and on February 9th, nine years ago, my programmer, James, passed away suddenly. We still don't know what happened. I think he took too much cough medicine, and I think he should have been seeing a doctor, so I think his body went septic, is the term like where your blood kind of gets bad, and then he kind of took too much cough medicine,

27:28and I think he fell asleep, faced down in a pillow. So he was my guy that handled a lot of my hardware. My James was everything. And I think it was a Thursday night, February 9th of 2017, I got the phone call that James wasn't going to make it, and his sister pulled the plug on the machine on the 10th, and Sally cook did what most people would consider a friend doing. She said, I said, Sally, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like the machines are by James's house. I built a data center in his home. I built a VT1 mines bundled together. I ran my auto-responding on a whole bunch of other things. Sally, I don't know what I'm going to do. But I do know we have to back stuff up, so she says, what can I do? She was a friend, so I said, well, you can help me back up our email campaigns. So we started do that on Friday night, and we started do that on Saturday, and on Sunday I said, Sally, I'm going to drive, pick up the equipment by James's,

28:31and that's what I did. We picked up all our stuff. I said, Sally, I'm going to drop it off by Bill, which is the data center guy here. I'm going to drop off the stuff. Don't even bother. I talked to her on Sunday night. Don't even bother telling me to call me in the morning on Monday. I'm going to be dropping off the stuff by Bill, so call you and let you know how it went. You know, Monday afternoon. Well, when I came home from dropping off my stuff by Bill's, and Bill's a great man. I'll tell you about that story maybe some other time. But I got a voicemail from Sally in the morning, and I'm like, ah, that's weird. Sally always follows instructions. Sally always, and that's not like it was an instruction, but if I told her I wasn't going to be here in the morning, she would know not to call me in the morning. I'm like, that's weird. I got a phone call from Sally. And when I checked my voicemail, this is what I heard. Hey Peter, this is David. I'm using Sally's phone.

29:31Sally passed away this morning. I'm like, fuck. Excuse my language. Oh my God. I lost James. And I lost Sally. And I'll never forget that Sally is very religious in a good way. She's always Jesus this and that Jesus that, and I'm going to see Jesus and all that sort of stuff. I remember seeing myself with Sally. I said, Sally, I don't know what I'm going to do without James. He's got all the passwords. Like James is super good when it comes to technology. What am I going to do when I'm going to be able to get into the servers? Am I going to be able to get into the firewall? James is like, Uber, Duke, Pursuit, Pursmart. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. What am I going to do? Bill said, don't worry about it. We'll figure it out. If we have the machines, we'll be able to figure out how to crack into them. And I was telling all of that about Sally. And I'm like, damn. Sally passed away. And here's the interesting thing. I talked to her daughter and I talked to her husband. And Sally, when she passed away that morning,

30:33she was laying in her bed with her hands in a praised position smiling as if she had gone to see Jesus. And that was Sally. She died on the 13th of February, just a couple of days later. So I lost James. And then I lost Sally, which is Uber devastating to me. But Sally was like amazing. And Katie's now older. She's got three kids now. She's a great gal. And she follows just like Sally. But I was like to get praised that people went, I get pissed off. When the anti-MLM people say, what kind of people do MLM? And they're all scammers and whatever. I'm like, no. Sally did MLM because it fit into her schedule. She happened to also be a company owner with me as a partner. But she did it. The biggest reason why is because she wanted to control her own schedule. So she should be able to be home at three o'clock on her daughter's senior year.

31:34So she could spend special time with her daughter because she knew that after the senior year, the daughter was going to go away and things were never going to be the same. And that's what MLM was able to provide for Sally. So I just mentioned that because it kind of closed to the Valentine's Day. And Sally was really super special to me. She's just super amazing. So anyway, so that's my Sally story, Scott. You know. Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Remember when you're a tuckie guy. I remember when you're a tuckie guy passed away. But maybe you mentioned the Sally portion of it in passing. But that's incredible. You know, that really is something. Is there a daughter in the Dallas area still, do you know? Yeah. She is. Her name's Katie. Oh, and she's a great mom. Yeah, she's a great mom. Yeah, I mean, you know, just amazing people, amazing people. And it's a shame Dr. Tom passed away with cancer. And he was an amazing guy.

32:34He was the Donald Trump of MLM. Like he was the guy. You know, if you think about Donald Trump, throw something at him. And he's going to be like, screw you, fuck off. I'm going to make this work anyway. He was the Donald Trump of MLM. I've never seen anybody so ruthless in a positive way, like in a positive way. And it was just an amazing experience. And smart network, I should have been around. But the problem was that people decided that it wasn't working the right direction. Took some advice from an attorney that was bad advice. Had nothing to do legally, had everything to do with an investment that we made. And that bad decision with that investment broke up the partnership. And then the lasarnics, here's kind of an interesting, the lasarnics were more like amway as far as the tool system. Like they were very big into the books, the tapes and the functions, brainwash the people, fleet deprivation, all that kind of thought process.

33:36I said that was bullshit. And I said, we're training people on how to delve stuff. Not necessarily how to bring them into a fucking cult. Because they wanted them into, like, I don't know if you know, if you're, it's kind of, I don't know if you ever remember Brian Clemer. The Brian Clemer was a gentleman that taught self development. And he was excellent. The best at stage one. Like his first seminar was fantastic. But it was so good. Everybody would want to go through the second seminar. And the third seminar. And the higher the seminar, the further it went away from what we were doing as far as building an network marketing company. And the closer it got to, you're now in a cult. And I got to get you to the next level so I can show you something else. And unfortunately, that created a lot of problems. And certainly a divorce. So we got a divorce from lasarnics first. Dr. Tom got sick.

34:37Dr. Mike went. Dr. Mike was crazy. He went to jail for different reasons. And you could ever imagine nothing super bad, but just stuff. And one thing led to another. And they just said, you know what? After the bad financial decision, we just said, you know, we're going to do something. Dr. Tom got sick. We let it fade away. And it was one of those things, which was a real shame. And we tied it to, we tied it to Kevin Trudeau with the nutrition for life thing. And that also fell apart at the same time. So that's what ultimately led me to do my own thing. Because I'm like, listen, I'm not doing anything else with anybody else. It's too squirrely. You guys never stick on the same track. So everybody gets distracted or gullible or greedy. And that's why I left. But I just wanted to pay my tribute to Sally. I choke up when I think about her. And she's always somebody that I talk to, like mentally and like, hey, Sally, what am I supposed to do? Because she's in that spiritual realm. And I'm telling you, Scott, when she passed away, I'm like, Sally, you didn't have to go to,

35:41you didn't have to go to James to make this all work out for me. Like, I really think this is as delusual as I could be. I really think she took the one way trip. So like, no, Peter, I'm going to do a Jesus anyway. I wanted to get there. I really think that she took the trip to see James so we can make everything work smoother down here. And if that doesn't sound as delusional it gets, I'm telling you, there was something to it. Because my guy Bill and his brother Geese, they put my stuff together. It took him a month. But they took what couldn't be done and they did it in the course of a month and kept me in business. But that's one of those entrepreneurial stories we could talk about some other time as well. So it was very interesting. Yeah, that's amazing. Do you know what she passed away from? No. She died in her sleep. Wow. She died in her sleep. Yeah.

36:41It was the craziest things got. She died in her sleep. Last thing she did was help me. And she went to go get James. And she passed away. And when they found her, they found her, like I said, in a praise position smiling. Like she knew she was seeing Jesus. So I know that they sound kooky to some. But I mean, that is the way it was. And I playfully say, like Sally would do anything for me. Like she was that friend. Like she was the one when I was going to, like, I don't know what I'm going to do. James has passed away. He's dead. I got a problem with the sister getting my equipment out of the house. I know this is going to be horrible. And she says, you know, what can I do? And she didn't say, like, what can I do? Like a bullshit coach. You know, she's like, no, what can I do? I'm like, well, let me think we can, we can back up stuff. I got a backup stuff. Sally, well, it's still on. So we spent Friday night, Saturday, backing up stuff. Sunday I was on the truck, you know, driving over to Tampa where James was, picking up the stuff, driving back home, telling, hey, Sally,

37:43you know, this is where I'm going to be on Monday in the morning. So don't call me in the morning. I won't be here. And when I got that phone call from her phone, from her friend, giving me that message. I, it was, you know, beyond, like, no, beyond them. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Lost two of them in a couple of days. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Jesus. Wow. Well, you mentioned Trump and that kind of, if you're, if you're done with that part of our show, I'll move on. Yeah. So you mentioned Trump and that was something I wanted to talk about a little bit tonight as well. I don't know if you listen to the, uh, him, Bondy, uh, in front of Congress this week at all, where she was. I don't know. I didn't see the whole thing. I heard some snippets that were not very. Yeah. Pleasant relative to her.

38:43Yeah. So, so I have a take on that. Um, and I haven't heard this. You know, sort of theory from anybody else because there's been some people that have phrased Pam Bondy saying, yeah, she's a real fighter. She pushed back and, you know, she didn't let them, you know, take advantage of her or anything like that. And then, and I'm talking about on the conservative side. There's, there's conservative people that say, man, she really screwed up. I mean, she just, you know, didn't look good. Just did a poor job and this is terrible and, and all this. And I'll tell you what my take is on this is I think her and Trump got together or she just knew that Trump would be okay with this. Um, you know, so they did it explicitly or she kind of knew to do it because she knows Trump, right? Um, and so what she was doing was pushing back so hard on all the criticism that these people

39:44would not be able to come up with campaign commercials, right? Because this, this is the campaign year. And all these people are trying to, you know, come up with gotchas in their, in their campaign commercials. And she wouldn't let them do that by just pushing back on them. You know, she was interrupting them. She was, you know, not answering the questions. She was changing the subject. Anyway, that's my take. You know, it's, it's just sort of a pure Trumpist approach to, you know, being harassed like that is, you know, you don't play the game. You just push back and if you have to change the topic, you can change the topic. And, you know, whatever it takes so that they can't get a campaign advertisement put together based on the interaction. So anyway, that, that's my wild theory about that whole thing that happened this past week. So I don't know if you had any ideas about that. I, I watched it.

40:44First, you know, she's obviously got to be a sharp person. So, um, I think so. She is. And she's kind of feisty. She's a gal. So she knows how to fight back. I'd say some of the things that she, she did, you know, landed well and some of the other things she did didn't land well and probably taken out of context. But what I probably figure is that like a lot of people there, you know, it's the perfect example of the Peter principle. Peter principle is basically that someone gets promoted to a level of incompetence and then ultimately fail. So you could be good as a lawyer. You could be good as an AG. Then you hit, you know, being the, you know, the nation's AG. And you're into an area that you're really not ready for. And I think that is such a cesspool that she's in that she's been set up and made to look bad and stuff like that. So I think, you know, something with Dambon Gino and Cash Patel.

41:45I think a lot of them started out as good people and then eventually put themselves in the position where no one would probably do well. So, but she's a fighter and she's on Trump's team and she did it. I think she did an okay job. I think as far as the theatrics are concerned, a lot of people can easily paint there as a loser. But I think she, I think she did the best job she possibly could in that hostile environment. And I think I agree with you. She wasn't going to give them the sound bite that they were looking for. So if she's going to talk, it was going to be stuff that she wanted repeated, not they wanted her to say or be repeating. So I think she did a good job there. And I think she got as far as Epstein. I think she's in a very awkward place and I always use the expression. Unless I know all the variables, any conclusion I draw is probably wrong. There's probably a whole bunch of variables in that whole Epstein thing. That we don't know about. People at our level just will never know about.

42:45And she's probably been fooled because it's easy that, you know, she probably been fooled and deceived to make herself look bad. But I think, you know, she's got to handle on certain things. I think Trump does too and I think Trump is obviously in the same position. The only problem with Trump is he will never admit that he was wrong. So whether it was the vaccine or whether it was a tariff or whether it was anything, his personality is such where he'll never admit he was flawed. And that's his weakness and his strength. So there's some of my opinions about that. Yeah, there's been talk to about how, like I saw something just earlier today, something like I think it's 60 something out of the 90 something attorneys general across the country. It have not been appointed because the Senate is just dragging to the feet. And so, you know, and they don't even have people standing in, you know, sort of, you know, as as temporary people.

43:46And so I'm sure they still have an office with lawyers in it, but there's really not much direction. And so it's really slowed down the whole effort of everything, you know, in a lot of places. It's just really hard and also I've heard that, you know, if you're going to be a Trump loyalist or a PM bond loyalist in a department of justice, you're going to not have a good life, you know, as far as, you know, you're a lawyer and you're in there. They're going to go after you after, you know, Trump's time is up. And it's just, it's just really nasty. And so they can't even get enough prosecutors to do the agenda. And it's really challenging. And I think that's at least part of, you know, the frustration with her is they just don't have enough people to do all the heavy lifting because she obviously can't do everything herself. You know, she needs people who do it and are supportive of the agenda. It's not just people, you know, that are, you know, kind of going through the motions.

44:51You have to really dig into it and push on it. And they're just aren't enough of those people around because they don't want to be a target. It's really nasty. The whole thing is a big mess. Yeah, I'm going to use an example and then I'll use the exact opposite of the example just to make a point. When I was a branch manager with Electrolex, they developed, they developed these things called super branches. They combined five offices into one. And I became a super branch manager and that was in Bayside, Queens. Well, when I became that super branch manager, remember I said they took five offices and they closed it into one. I basically took over the office of somebody who previously had that office. So his name is Johnny Luca. And I said to Johnny and other people that said, listen, I'm passing through. Like this is, if I do this right, as a super branch manager, I'm going to get promoted.

45:52But whatever that next level is going to be, it happened to be regional manager or airy vice president. I said, so just realize that I realize I'm passing through here. This was not my office. I'm going to treat it like it's my office while I'm here. But this is not my forever home. I'm passing through. And that was the example that I said I would use. Now I'm going to give you the example of if I'm sitting and now my name is Johnny. Okay, I get it. Like this is yours for a while. But just your temporary here. Like hey, dude, your temporary. If I don't like you, I can play this game if I don't like it or like it doesn't really matter. In one year, two years, three years, five years, you're gone. Like you're not here forever. And I think that's the way a lot of people in the system look at a Donald Trump.

46:53They look at Donald and they say, listen, Donald, you're here for just a little bit. Matter of fact, you're not even here for just a little bit. You're here until the next election. Matter of fact, you're not even here until the next election. Like the next midterms. You're here for one year. You got like a year. And then the next year is campaign year for the midterms. I only have to worry about you for like 12 months. And then we're probably going to ignore and troll the roadblocks we possibly can. Because if we could do that, we win the midterms. Your next two years are a pile of shit. And then we're going to win it anyway, because we always do. And when we take it back over, we're going to undo everything you did anyway. And I think that's the way a lot of people still look at Donald Trump. And unfortunately, that's certainly the way they look at him in the first term. It's next, there's certainly a way they're looking at him. Some people placefully call it his third term. But the reality is that I think that's the problem that the Donald Trumps of the world, the Dambon Genos, the people that go in with good intentions, they're going to help fix this country. And then they get washed out by a system that's bigger than them.

47:55So I think that's part of the problem. Yeah, and I've always been a very strong proponent of term limitations. That's a major part of it. So that those people are not there forever either. They're temporary as well. Because it is those 30, 40-year politicians exactly like you're saying. Plus, they're in the pockets of every lobbyist in the world. They're getting super wealthy because of all of the dealings they're making on the side. And doing government is sort of the least of their priorities. Yeah, it's something we definitely need. When they did it to the president, they should have done it to themselves. Of course, we know they're not going to do that. And the only hope we have is the states getting together. What's it called? Confederation of states. I know the letters are COS.

48:56It's something of states, but there's a campaign right now because you need a convention of states. You need like, I think it's three quarters of the states to say we need to have a constitutional convention, which is Article 5 of the Constitution. Because that was the mechanism that our founders put in the Constitution. But if the, at the federal level, things were getting squarely, and they have gotten squarely. But the states can pull back some authority and do some things. And so the states could actually, once we get three quarters, I think we're, I think we're at least halfway there right now. And there's, you know, there's campaigns in various states to get it high enough. The states can have a convention and they can do things like have term limits for the federal legislators. They can pass a law that says that the federal government has to balance their budget too. They can't just keep putting us in the debt year after year.

49:56So those are the two big ticket items I would love to see in a convention of states. You know, but we still have to get there first. You know, we're not there yet. There has to be more states signing on. But yeah, I agree with your thoughts there that, you know, you're just temporary. I don't have to worry about you. I'll just drag my feet and you're going to be gone and I'll still be here. So that that was a great illustration of that concept. I also brought up this idea from the standpoint. I had an interaction with a guy this past week on Facebook. And it started out. There's a local politician who was supporting a, I guess it was a man who became a woman. I can't remember which way she or he was going. Anyway, you know, there's this, this awareness now that, you know, the doctors and the psychologists have really been pushing people. In fact, somebody won, I think it was a $2 million award this past week.

50:58Because they said they were pressured into changing their sex and actually won in court. Now, I'm sure it's going to be appeal and it's going to, you know, drag out for a few four years. But they won. And this local politician was kind of promoting this other person, completely separate person, in a similar situation. And the discussion kind of evolved to the point that at the time of this second person's operations, he was 19 years old. And so this guy by name of Jim Leach made a comment not every 19 year old is an adult. And that's kind of strange. And so I googled the legal age for medical procedures, right? Because there's different ages for different things, you know, as far as legality.

51:59I know, you know, it used to be in some states. The drinking age was 18. And now it's 21, pretty much across the board. I don't think there's a state that is less than 21 at this point. And the reason for that is you have to be, you have to have a legal drinking age of 21 in order to get federal highway funding. And I know that Louisiana dragged their feet for years and years and years. They kept it at 18 and they lost a whole bunch of money. And to this day, that gave later. This is probably at least 30 or 40 years ago when they, when they finally got on board. But their roads are in such a bad shape, they're still in bad shape. And it's going to take forever to catch up because, you know, it's just really hard to catch up when you get that far behind. And so, you know, there's different ages for different things. But this is a medical topic, right? This is a medical procedures topic. And so, I went on Google and I just, you know, because I thought it was 18 for medical procedures.

53:03And so, I made a comment to this guy, and let me see if I can find a year in this thread. Because it's a really long thread. I'm not going to go through every single one of them. But I said, let's see here it is. I said, from a legal perspective, they are. In other words, they being 19 year old, they are. And then he came back with a subject or a response. He said to me, this is Jim Leach back to me, which legal perspective eligibility varies based on subject matter? Now, we were talking about medical, right? But he goes on and he says, for instance, driving age versus drinking age versus voting age. All different requirements, depending on the entity enforcing, like federal state or local. But this topic was medical. But he tries to bring in off topic subjects. And I kept reminding him, we're talking about medical here.

54:05We're not talking about all these other things. And he just kept going back to trying to stay off the subject. And it reminded me not only of Pam Bondy, but also of the anti-NLMers. I'm bringing this all the way back to NLM. When you're trying to have a conversation and you're making a point, they change the subject. And then, you know, you're sort of at this standstill because they're not being responsive to the point being made. And this Jim Leach guy goes on and on and on. We had like, I don't know, 30 or 40 back and forths. Because you know me. I've talked about this before on the show. When I'm on social media with somebody, I'm going to get the last word in. And after 30 or 40 of these things, he finally gave up. But it went back and forth. He accused me of being gay. I challenged him to come on this show. And he wouldn't respond to that.

55:05And I called him a coward. And I called him a libtard, you know, all these different things. And then he challenged me and we'll speak in person. You know, and I'm like, why would I meet with such a goofball, right? And I told him, you know, it's not worth my time, money or effort to meet you. You know, if you don't want to, if you're not, you know, quote unquote, brave enough to come on a simple podcast. You know, you're not worth my time, money or efforts to meet you. And it just kept going back and forth. And it was just basically insults back and forth. But I kept trying to bring it back to, you know, the legal age for medical procedures is 18, which it is. It's so easy to Google that. And I told him that I said, all you have to do is Google it, which I did to understand that it's 18 from medical procedures. But he would just never even address the topic again. He just kept doing the insults and, you know, your gay, you're scared and all this stuff. And it just broke down.

56:07So, so I want, I told him that I'm going to talk about him on the show Peter. So Peter, we've been doing this show for nearly 10, 10 and a half years. Do you think I'm gay? Well, I know you're not. I know you're not. So I just want to get that straight. And you're right. Because I never, I never explicitly denied it to him. And the reason I didn't, because he wouldn't answer the fact that medical procedures, the legal age is 18 right for being an adult. And he would never address that. And so I wasn't going to address his, his gay accusation. If he wasn't going to address and say, yeah, you're right, it's 18. You know, just, just admit, I'm right. You know, you don't have to, you know, growl or anything to say, yeah. I was, I went off topic and you're right, it's 18. But he wouldn't do that. And he, he never did that during our discussion. But I finally beat him down enough like I have with everybody else that's tried to pull this stunt with me to where he's, you know, run off.

57:09In fact, it's interesting, Peter. Just a few hours ago, a brand new person to the thread reminded him that medical procedures, the legal age is 18. Now, apparently she didn't read all the rest of the thread of us going back and forth. And he hasn't responded to her yet either. So I think he's given up. But it just reminded me of so many discussions that I've had with the anti-MLMers over the years, where you just, you try to make a point. You try to have a topic and you try to get them to, to address it and they won't. They'll, they'll skirt around it. They'll, they'll, they'll try to, you know, switch to a different topic. And just, you know, go off in a different direction without ever coming to a conclusion. And it's, it's so frustrating that you cannot have a, a constructive conversation. And you can't admit when you're wrong because when I'm on, I admit it. I just say, yep, you're right. I didn't think it through. I didn't, didn't do enough research, whatever.

58:10You know, that's a really good point. And I'll do that because I don't, you know, I mean, we all have egos, but I don't have an ego so much. That I can't admit it when I'm wrong. And it was just an interesting back and forth. And it was just one of those things that it's, it's, it has nothing to do with MLM, but then it has everything to do with MLM. You know what I mean? And it's just one of those examples. So anyway, I don't know if you have any comments on that. If you don't, that's fine. We can go to a different topic. There was a couple of stories on BehindMLM.com this past week. And that's really our go-to website for MLM topics. And there was one here. And I kind of alluded to this earlier. There's a story from February 11th, 2026. And the title is TechSitcoin, SecuritiesFried, C&D from Texas.

59:11So TechSitcoin is this new, you know, cryptocurrency in Texas. It started in Texas. I think the plan was the expanded, this time went on. And C&D is ceased and desist. It's a legal document that came from the regulator. Basically saying, hey, you guys aren't registered with us. You're a security. And so you need to stop it. And this article goes into how when this cease and desist came out, at least some of the founders cashed out in the price of the, the TechSitcoin cratered. But then the gift that keeps on giving, Greg Hart, who I mentioned earlier, I mentioned on pretty much every show, as my poster child for the tools cam, is at least a leading and maybe the leading distributor in this thing. Because the guy is very outgoing, very persuasive, very, you know,

1:00:11effervescent in his personality. And he just would fit this thing perfectly. But apparently they didn't follow the rules. And it's not, I don't think his fault, because he's just a distributor. But he got caught up in this thing, which now, you know, if it hasn't been shut down, it looks like it's well on its way to being shut down. But yeah, that was one of the stories from this past week that I, that you actually pointed in my direction, and I took a look at it. So if you want to add that to that, go right ahead. Yeah, so the TechSit one was a very interesting story, because they're kind of combined cryptocurrency, data mining, or the cryptocurrency mining, and MLM. So if we recall, or like I said a little bit earlier, if you listen to about a half a dozen of radio shows, you would have a pretty clear picture of what is expected,

1:01:13what's done, where things go wrong. And at least you wouldn't be able to say that I didn't know that, you know, so you know, proceeded your own discussion. Well, first of all, Bobbi Gray is the owner of the company. Would have listened to enough of our shows. He would have found that you, Scott, talk about the importance of retail sales on every call, every call that we've ever done, or every radio show that we've ever done. And you talk about the toll scam as well, but it's always about retail sales. And the problem that TechSitcoin had from the very start was they made their own money with the cryptocurrency, which isn't bad, not illegal. You know, there's certain things. They set up their own mining, so that wasn't fake. There's real mines. I mean, you can actually go there and touch them. Some of them are sure if you touch your fingers would be burnt. So they had the mining, they had the coins, they were... I don't think they had an actual use yet, but they were still in the process of doing that.

1:02:13And they had an MLM compensation plan, but they had no retail customers. And that's what, like nobody bought mines, or at least they didn't promote it that way, for the sake of just buying the mines, a lot of them bought it with the idea that they were going to get rich quick, and they were going to be able to recruit some other people as well, and that was part of their plans. And they weren't listed as by the SEC or the Texas Board or whatever it is in Texas they have to do if you sell in securities, and that's why they were shut down. So it's a... I'm going to say it's a shame, but it's not surprising. It was almost predictable. And it took... I think he's in his 93rd or 98th week, so he's a good... I shouldn't say he's a good guy, I don't know him that well, but he was doing a lot of the right things, but he did a few wrong things, and now he's shut down, who knows what's going to go on with it, but it's probably not something he's going to be able to recover from. Whether he goes to jail, I don't know.

1:03:13I'm going to say he goes to jail, probably 10%, 20%, maybe even less syncing with any promoters, whether he's going to reopen again, pretty close to 0%, I think they're going to lock him up, when I say lock eight up, they're going to lock it up, they're going to freeze him, and then they're going to do the typical thing that happens. They'll put him in a financial chokehold, and then he'll basically just tap out because he's going to run out of oxygen and money. So I think that's where Texacorn is going to go. Yeah, I'm not clear, maybe, I don't recall if the article even addressed, are they going after just the owners, or also people like Greg Hart, you know, one of the leading distributors, because that's what happened with Advocare, you know, back in 2019, when Advocare basically settled with the FTC, the FTC also went after a couple of the leading distributors, and that happened with VEMA, as well, back in 2016. So I'm not sure if Texas is going after just the owners,

1:04:17or also people like Greg Hart, you know, leading distributors. None of the promoters yet, but this is still all brand new, because this just happened on the 11th of February, 2026. So the first round was, got to have the emergency order shut him down, and they have plenty of time to start going after the promoters. There was nothing that I saw that would lead me, they would do that, but then again, there's no reason why they wouldn't. So, and they don't have to, the first thing was, these guys are dangerous, we have to have them shut down, and that's basically what they did. And he's pretty vocal about it. If you go online, and you look for Texas coin and cease and desist, you'll see that, and he has got his guys in his favor, and his haters, and a lot of people are scrubbing the internet, pretty kind of evidence, let's say, or any level of involvement, but we'll see where it goes. But I just know, based on the predictable pattern of previous experiences, that they'll just hold on to his money, meaning they froze the bank accounts.

1:05:19He's probably smart enough, but he won't admit it, because he's smart enough to not admit it. He's probably got somebody squirreled around it away in Bitcoin, or cryptocurrencies, which are beyond the reach, at least, of the government at this point. So he's probably not worried about where he's going to get the groceries from, but should be, but his bank accounts were frozen, so he had to lay off some people. They're not going to be able to sell, and selling the mining packages is how they generated money, but he's not going to be able to do that, but he's going to have expenses. They have expenses of electricity, hardware, maintenance, all that sort of stuff. So, like I used the example of the chokehold and having to tap out, is they'll just financially strangle him for days and weeks and months, and maybe a year or two, and then eventually turns a pretty color blue, tap out, and then it's over. So he's just not going to be able to fight it with the legal fees or the maintenance because when you have no money coming in, you can't pay for the expenses, you know, the electricity.

1:06:19He's got a, he's got a toxic coin to continue to run, meaning like, it's kind of like if I had to shut down, selling radio shows and other things, but still had to keep going with radio shows, and running servers, and paying for the stuff that I pay for, well, eventually I'd run out of money, unless I was going to go do something else and pull that money in from somewhere else and self-funded, you know, but that would be like crazy. But I think that's what's going to happen with toxic coin. So I think it's over, the price dropped tremendously. It went from like $6 or $7 down to like 18 cents at the lowest, so it's basically over. It's now just on life support. I got a pulse, but it's kind of like, you know, pull the plug on the machine already. The rest is just, like if he was smart, it would just pull the plug on the machine, as opposed to trying to fight it, because there's no winning this one. Yeah, I don't think it was clear in the article whether Brighart was one of the people that they touched out. It was pretty clear.

1:07:20It's pretty clear that, oh, no, well, you couldn't see this cash now, because that would be people selling the coins. But if you didn't start selling the coins like on day one, it's over. Right. Those prices went from $7 to $0.30, you know, plus or minus instantly. Like, there was no getting out of it. And anybody that's sharp, yeah, anybody that's smart would have probably not gotten out of it, because it was going to go to zero pretty quick. And if you sell it zero, you got no chance of it coming back. So there might be some people still holding on. But I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, I don't know how much you know, Brighart made money from downline, you know, where he made the the texic coin money and then he cashed out well before it being shut down just to, you know, get that money. I don't think he'd say about any one of them.

1:08:20Yeah, I'd say he probably got, he's probably a net loser already. There's no way in the world he probably sold and as many people as he needed to, to be able to recoup the amount of money he probably invested himself. So he probably went not all any probably, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't push 50 or 100,000 of it in on his own. And now, because all this stuff got shut down so quick, he might not have even had a chance to get some commissions on the people that he just sold last week. So he was on, Brigh was on a radio, I'm sorry, Brigh was on a YouTube video, late January, saying, hey guys, I'm in, we're going balls for the walls in the month of February, we're doing three, you know, we're doing three seminars or three YouTube's every day. You know, we're full force, this is going to be a full sprint. So, you know, January, so February 1st of 2026 is when they were starting their full sprint. And they were shut down by the 11th. So even if he made any sales

1:09:20on the first couple of days through this new sprint, he might not have gotten paid on them because the week ended and they usually get paid the following week. Yeah, I'm good point. He may be a net loser. Yep, yep. The point. But if he put $100,000 into it, I don't think that's going to change his net worth by very much. Right. He's made tens of millions of dollars years, maybe over 100 million. I don't know, you know, I don't know how much he's made, but it's a lot. You know, like I quoted him earlier from him giving an interview back in the early 2000s. You made a million dollars a year from Amway and eight to 10 million dollars a year from the tools. You know, you did that for multiple years, and then he went on to other MLMs and made an over much money. So, yeah, if he put $100,000 into it, it's like you dropping a dollar bill, basically. Yep.

1:10:20Right. But he was going for it. He was going to go for it. And then one other side, you know, you never really know, you know, because like going back to my expression a little bit earlier, unless I know all the variables, any conclusion I draw is probably wrong. You know, a lot of people that make a lot of money, they have a tendency to be able to write big checks for stupid things. So, they lose money like it's going out of style, because you know, they might buy a business and it falls apart. They might do something else, get their ass sued off, try something else, helping out some other people, bad not working out. So, it could be that, you know, people could make a lot of money, but they go through it pretty quick. Yeah. I mean, somebody like that would invest in 10 different businesses, and if one or two of them goes belly up, they'll be good. Right. You know, money from the other eight. So, you know, that's just the, you know, the odd. Oh, no. So, yeah, we don't know. But that was a problem with this. I'd say it's pretty much, I think it's pretty much done. I don't think he's going to be able to recover from it. Even if he does, people are going to say,

1:11:20why? Like, hey, I'd say, do for your own ego, maybe, do for your own reputation, but I don't need to be hanging around. You know, if I were there, like, I'm not hanging around, I got to move on. Like, I can't take the chance. Got to move on. Yeah. So, I'm sure he's going to lose a lot of people. Yeah. Now, when you say he, you're talking about the owner, right? Not Brighart? Yeah, Bobby Gray. Yeah. Brighart's totally different. Brighart's just, Brighart, if I'm, if I'm Brighart, I'm just sitting there saying, fuck. I know he won't say that word. But I just like, fuck. Like, I can't believe it. Like, we really, we really dug in. Like, we really dug in, and we were going to make this work, and we really sold a lot of people on getting started with this, and we were doing our full-court press push. I'm like, damn. Damn. This one hurts. I don't think it hurts where he's worried about going to jail or anything else. But, and I don't think he's in that winner. And I don't think he needed to think a ton of money in it to save Bobby Gray.

1:12:21I think Bobby Gray probably had enough reserves where he wasn't worried about that. So it's just a, it's just, I hate to say it, it's kind of like a big waste of time and effort and energy for Brighart, and now he's got to recover. Like, what the hell else am I going to do? Because he wasn't planning on doing anything else. It was really, it was really fully committed. The, the Brighart that I saw that did that YouTube video was like, okay, this guy's in working mode. I mean, this guy's not playing. I mean, he's, he's really going for it. He's committed to making this work. Yeah. You saw his sort of M-way persona as being a very high energy, very enthusiastic guy. And that's exactly who he was in M-way as well. And that's why he had such a huge group. I'm so enthusiastic and so upbeat. You know, and that's how he attracted a lot of followers. So, that's who he is. And that's not it. And I was just a regular person. I'd follow him. I would be right behind him. Like, you know what I mean? He'd be able to, he'd be, he's good enough.

1:13:21He's smart enough. He's credible enough for people that don't know. But when I saw Texacoin, I'm like, yeah, I don't know what you guys are doing. But you're prime for getting shut down. Oh, you know, looks like you're trying to do the Bobby Gray speaks a good thing. Some people say that he's not a good guy. But he speaks a good language. If he is a con man, he's really good as a con man. He knows all, he knows the business. He's been around before. He's spoken of front of congressional hearings. He understands gold. He understands cryptocurrency. He is not a stupid man. And does he deserve to make a shit ton of money? Well, anybody that grabs the bowl and he goes running with it and deal with all the things that he has, he has had to deal with. He deserves a boatload of money. So, the idea that he was making a lot of money is not, I mean, you don't get people to do the work that he did that don't expect to make a lot of money. So, hey, you know, you're going to get a lot of the jewels by doing the right things. But unfortunately, he didn't listen, or he didn't want to listen,

1:14:22or didn't want to hear it. So, I'm sure a lot of people said, you've got to get an MLM attorney. He was doing this without an MLM attorney. So, if you were to listen to our radio show and heard your intro Scott, something about retail sales, that would have been the first thing. He's like, man, this guy's gone. He's really harping on this retail sales thing. I should really take a look at this. And we're talking about medical, we're talking about income claims and stuff like that. He's like, damn, I better get this compliance in order. And he didn't either. No, unfortunately, that's what happened. Yeah, and I think this scenario is somewhat unique, where retail sales and toolscams, you know, wouldn't have really saved them because you really needed the register security with the state. Correct. He really put, to your point, if he had a good MLM attorney, or even a good non-MLM attorney, a good security attorney, and maybe he did, maybe he just didn't take the advice. You know, maybe he was advised to do something. I'll blow that off.

1:15:22I'll get away with it. But, obviously, it didn't work out. So, yeah, because I do talk about toolscams and retail sales a lot. But, you know, when he gets into this stuff, that is more of an investment, you know, versus a business, like a MLM business, but it's more of a security where you're making an investment. Then you need to follow, you know, sort of a different set of rules. You know, the SEC Securities and Exchange Commission, which I think most, if not all, states have their version of the SEC, you know, to regulate things within the state. The SEC has the TSSB. So, the TSSB is the one that he needed to register with. So, he made a rookie mistake. He made a rookie mistake or an expert gamble. So, maybe he thought he was an expert, he was going to, he was going to, he was going to play cards. He was going to, he was going to, he was going to place that bet.

1:16:22Yep. Yep. You lost that. Yeah, there you go. He lost that. So, there's another really interesting, interesting, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. No, do you want to bring up a horrible like story? Yeah. I've read that article. So, now, I'm up to date. Really interesting story here. You know, we talk about all the trials and tribulations that MLMers go through, you know, mainly in the United States of America, because that's where we are, and that's where most of the stories come from. But here's one, you know, for all those people that are whining about being taken advantage of, and being pushed too hard, and all that stuff, you know, but let's get real here. So, the headline is, Herbalife Promoter Stards Tortures Downline to Death. In that state, it's February 10, 2026, and it's just an amazing story. This is in Singapore, and what happened was these distributors,

1:17:23as the story goes, on behind MLM, and there's actually a newspaper in Singapore that's the origin of this story. So, what happened was there was these Herbalife distributors in Singapore, and they were trying to get their parents, or one of them, was trying to get her parents, or his parents, to buy $2,000 per month of Herbalife products. And the parents said, we're not interested in buying $2,000 a month worth of Herbalife products. And so, they kicked them out of the house. And so, when they kicked them out of the house, they went and moved in with their upline. Well, apparently their upline's upline said, you need to starve these people, literally starve them, right? Feed them very little, whatever, you know, tell them just to do the Herbalife shakes, and not too many a day, you know, that kind of thing.

1:18:24I don't know exactly what the instruction was, but they lost a lot of weight. Now, I don't think they were fat to begin with, by the way. And I don't associate, you know, people in Singapore were being overweight. I'm sure there are some. But anyway, they also told them that you need to feed them. And I think it was, it worked its way up to $240, because I think was the height of it. And so they did it. You know, the upline did that to try to get these people, quote, unquote, motivated to the point of them dying, literally they're dead. And, you know, for all the complaining that people do, you know, this is real taking advantage of people. And all the people whining, you know, you need to put it, you know, in the right sequence, as far as, you know, all the things that you're going through, because these people literally died.

1:19:25You know, that was, that's the just of the story. It's just an incredible thing. And like we talked about briefly before the show, Peter, you know, part of this is the culture. You know, over in the Far East, in that area of the world, it's very much not an individual type culture. It's a group culture. And there's a lot of emphasis on blending in and being part of the team and, you know, not being concerned about your individuality. And so they have that sort of bias to begin with. And so they're willing to put up with this, because you might imagine, why would these people put up with it? Well, number one, they were desperate. They were kicked out of their parents' house. Obviously, they did not have enough income on their own. And so they really didn't have a lot of choices. And they had this cultural bias to where, you know, do as you're told, you know, by your quote-unquote mentors. And that's a popular term that's used,

1:20:27particularly in the Worldwide Dream Builders group, I think, in Amway, is the concept of mentorship. And you're a mentor. You know, and it's a real, it's a real business concept. You know, not an MLM business. I mean, to have a mentor, that's something that's been talked about for decades. You know, one way to get ahead and corporate America is to have a mentor. So when they can teach you and, you know, kind of guide you along the way. But mentorship in Amway, particularly the Worldwide Dream Builders, uses that term, is the worst thing you can do. And obviously, it didn't work out for this person over in Singapore either. But again, they have that cultural bias to, you know, be a team player. Do whatever, whoever has authority over you, real or imagined, and follow their instruction. And then that led to their death. So it's just, it's just a tragic story. It's crazy. It's crazy. So the, the uplines,

1:21:27uplines, so the top leader, the top leader guy, basically gave advice to the downline leader, who was trying to train this insubordinate person because she wasn't making enough fails. And basically, like a, a cruelty dialer, like a, like a volume on a speaker, basically, you start it off, I think you start it off by saying, you know, you got to start doing some exercises, you know, standard awkward positions. Okay, the cruelty's not bad, it's not bad enough. Okay, let's start to do whatever, lack of food, then we'll start beating. I'm beaten, up to 240 times, with a wooden stick, crazy, crazy, and you know, eventually the cruelty dial dialed. Tell them, and now that maybe the guy's going to jail, but it is pretty indicative of the way upline treats downline sometimes, you know, the cruelty dial. Yeah, usually not to that extreme, but yeah, I mean, it's all out there in varying degrees.

1:22:27Yeah, crazy. And then, I mean, I'm a really sad note, I set you the link, I don't know if you had a chance to see the whole thing, but Julian was interviewed by somebody named Cara or Cara, and I don't know her last name, but hey, this Cara person, apparently, was in a bunch of cults, you know, non-MLM cults. And so, you know, she is mentally, psychologically damaged, as far as I'm concerned, you know, just a nut job. And so, she interviewed the great Julian Anderson, say the great encodes, and apparently, and this is in, it's not in the video itself, but it's in the description, that Julie is now backing away from making anti-MLM videos. She was in a couple of MLMs for five years, and she's made videos for four years, and apparently now she's quitting,

1:23:28you know, according to the description. And by the way, I think it's been, at least several weeks, and she's really gone quiet, and she's gone quiet before, but it's usually only been for a week or two, and I think it's mainly because of her work schedule. You know, she works, I think long shifts, for a certain period of time, and then she's off for several days at a time, and that's when she tended to make her videos, so they would kind of come out and spurt, but they were sort of regular spurt, and now it's gone quiet for some time, and now we apparently know why, and I made a comment, we're going to miss Julie, and I mean that in two different ways, because she was on the show a while back, a couple of years ago, I think, and I called her a nut job before the show, and after the show, when I asked you by, you know, what's his name, the guy that was on him with her, the guy from Australia, she had her name. Go ahead.

1:24:28Go ahead. You know, they asked me before the show, what do you think about Julie? I said, I think she's a nut job, but she's welcome to come on, and then if you remember, burying the show, because she had to step out before the end, and go do something, and she had a commitment, and then on air, go ahead and ask me again, do you still think she's a nut job? I said, yeah, because we spent the whole show of her asking me questions. I didn't learn anything about her, and so why would I change my mind about her if all she did was ask me questions? And so, anyway, she's the one that, you know, she waves her hands in the air, and her eyeballs are rolling, and she laughs at just really odd times, just sort of randomly, and makes a bunch of ridiculous statements, and you know, she's not helpful, put it that way. She's entertaining, but she's not helpful. However, on the flip side of that, and I've made this comment multiple times in the past, is somebody, or somebody's, is feeding her information, inside information.

1:25:29She has gotten some really interesting and valuable input from people over the past couple of years, particularly, and the one that really stands out to me right now, is she got a hold of a Zoom type meeting back in 2021 from the DSA. The DSA was holding an internal meeting. This was not intended for public consumption, and they were strategizing around the idea of this anti-MLM conference, the very first one that was started in 2021, and how they were going to approach it. They tried to get invited in, they'll keep saying, no, you're not welcome here. And, you know, they mentioned that fact, and they said, well, you know, how are we going to address this, that we want to talk about it before the conference, do we want to wait till after the conference? You know, how much do we want people to know, because, you know, we don't want to put that in people's minds. You know, we don't want them to go out and get concerned about this,

1:26:30if it's not going to be a good conference. Also, you know, we don't want them to be blindsided. You know, I'll give you guys it tells about this type of a thing. So, they were really trying, I think, in a very, I'm going to use the word honest. I don't mean that to say that the DSA is honest, but they are doing a very good job from a lobbyist standpoint, to strategize, win and how much, and how are we going to put this out to the NLMs, you know, for general consumption. And I thought it was a very well-done, sort of a strategy session. And it really showed to me how developed and sophisticated that the DSA is, the Direct Selling Association, because that DSA term is in the news now. It's also the Democrat Socialist of America. It's actually a sort of a part of the Democrat party.

1:27:31So, I'm not talking about that DSA. I'm talking about Direct Selling Association, just happens to have the same letters. And at this point, I'm not sure if it's even as well known as the other one, the political one, you know, in the general public. But they're the lobbyists, and they were doing their job, trying to strategize on how to basically minimize the damage, that that's really, you know, what they were doing. And I thought they did a really professional job of doing that in this thing. And somebody fed her that, it was a Zoom meeting. It was the actual meeting. You could see it, watch it, listen to it, and you know, she got it. She also got, I can't remember what the other one was, but it was very, much of an insider-type thing. The problem is she didn't know what to do with it. You know, all she could do is throw her hands up in the air and roll her eyeballs and, you know, make weird comments. But she never got to the point

1:28:31that we got to on this show is the fact that the anti-hand dilemmas need to wake up. They need to understand that the DSA is a professional organization, that the MLMs are professional organizations. However evil and illegal they might be, they operate very professionally and very organized. And if the anti-MLM side, or the critical of MLM, let's call it that, because that's what I consider myself. I'm critical of MLM. I'm not anti-MLM, like we talk about at the beginning of all the shows. If we don't work together, we're probably going to lose, because the other side is very organized. And unless the anti-side gets organized, they're going to keep doing their thing and we're going to keep doing our thing separately. And I just don't think it's going to be successful. Now it's partially successful

1:29:32because more and more people are finding out, you know, with all the anti-MLM content, anti-MLM content on social media. I'm not saying it's a total loss. I'm just saying it could be so much better, so much faster, so much more complete, if we would just work together. But you have all these different people. And she actually mentioned this in the interview that she did with Kara. And I've mentioned this before in the show, independently of Julie's comment, is that I think people that have been in MLMs have been burned by others, and therefore they don't want to work with others, because they think they're going to get burned again. And so they just keep to themselves because they don't want to take their risk of being burned a second time, or a third or fourth time, because they were maybe in two or three MLMs, and they got burned every time. So now they trust no one. Even people who talk about agreeing with them on at least some of their things,

1:30:32but they just don't want to work with anybody, because they've been burned, and therefore they don't trust anybody, which is unfortunate, because, again, the other side is very organized, very professional, you know, they got their act together. And so, anyway, Rest in Peace, Julie, she's still physically alive, but we don't expect her to be on social media anymore, and for the loss of those sources that she got somehow, somebody was feeding it to her, that's too bad, that really is too bad. But that's where we are, and I'll let you make more comments, Peter. Yeah, so Julie, if you watched her video, that she did with her back out, she was definitely, she said she approached everything with the intensity of her triathlon that she ran with, so she was very into, and probably pretty good at being a runner

1:31:34and triathlons and things along that line, and she took her same approach, and that's why she was successful to the degree that she was in MLM, and by the way, she was just as aggressive when it came to digesting and gathering the research, and everything else that you were referencing. There's a lot of stuff that no one would have ever had if it wasn't for her. The problem is that when you do that, like she did for so long, you see the people getting sued, you just are always negative, and then eventually you kind of look in the mirror, and I think you say, who am I becoming? Like this is not who I am, and very negative, and very sarcastic, and very whatever, and I think she realized that I'm not going to save the world, or if the world is going to be saved, it's not going to be by me, and I think that's why she's bowing out, probably good for her mental health, but as far as that's concerned, we lost a little bit of entertainment,

1:32:36but we also lost some research, because there's really not many people that are doing the same thing she was as intensively as she was. You got a couple of different people that are kind of goofballs, and they're just overall negative and they're whining, and it's the same broken record. There's really no, there's really no new, good anti-MLM content creators, it's all people basically regurgitating the same thing. There's really no people, to your point, that are receiving this sort of inside information, you know, they're just seeing things on social media and then doing a story about it, whereas she was being fed by somebody, maybe multiple somebody's, and getting this information. Now, we also had, I don't think it's gone any further, with Hannah Alonzo, where she was being given information

1:33:36from a different MLM, but my belief, I don't know this to be true, but my belief at this point is that those letters that Hannah received were not legitimate. They were not genuine. And the thing there, what was it? Was that Monet? No, it was a young living. Young living. So yeah, so the rumor from these emails that Hannah Alonzo got was that they were going to shut down the MLM side, go direct selling, and young living denied that, they threatened to sue her, and so she took the video down under threat of lawsuit, and so that kind of, you know, went nowhere, as far as that goes. But I just don't believe those letters were legitimate at this point. I think that somebody was either trying to get young living

1:34:36or trying to get her, maybe they're trying to get both, and just stirred things up. And so, because the stuff that Julie got was genuine. I mean, it was an actual DSA Zoom meeting with video, not just the audio. It was the whole thing. I think it was video. I'm trying to remember now. Do you recall if that video, it was a... I don't remember if it was an audio or a video, but it was authentic, let's just say. It was authentic. Yeah. The conversation going back and forth, and, you know, you knew it was authentic. You knew that. It wasn't just an email. Like Hannah Alonzo received. So, yeah. That part of it, you know, when I made that comment, we're going to miss Julie. That's the part that I met. All the clown show stuff. I was definitely being sarcastic about that side of her. I won't miss that at all. Having said that, even the clown show stuff,

1:35:37I'm sure she turned off some people to MLM. So I'm not saying everything she did was completely useless, even though it was a clown show. Some people saw it and said, I'm not going to do MLM. I'm going to quit MLM, whatever. And so, I'm not saying it was completely non-productive. But, again, if we don't work together, it's just going to be very limited. It's going to be very slow. And that's just, you know, the nature of the beast, I guess, is that the anti-MLMers don't trust each other, because I've reached out to a lot of them over the years. And beyond our temporary seguida time frame, from the, and you, Peter, you know, this is, that's been it, as far as any kind of a long term, because I think seguida was with us for maybe a year or two. But, you know, we're going on 10 and a half years with this show, on a weekly basis. So, I appreciate you in this show.

1:36:38And I think we're coming up with our deadline year. You know, to just keep the conversation going, and to try to keep looking for people who want to actually do something, and you don't have to be a Julie Anderson, and go all out 24-7. You know, don't do that. I always tell people, look, you're going to burn yourself out. I think that's probably what happened to her. She worked so hard, she just burned herself out. You know, and just like she did with MLM, and you do have to be dedicated when you're a triathlon, no doubt. But then if you apply that same sort of tactic to MLM or anti-MLM, you're going to burn yourself out. You've got to have some free time to think, you know, rather than just gobbling up information, spewing it out. You've got to sit back and, you know, think about things, and not get so caught up in it that you don't have any time

1:37:38to do other things, and to think through what you're finding as far as information, you know, you have to be able to sit back and analyze it. You can't just do, do, do, you know, spew, spew, spew, spew, and then do, do, do, do, so more because it's just going to turn out to be do, do, do, I guess. They're playing on words. Anyway, I'll stop there. But, yeah, we lost some things and we got some things when Julie, you know, did that. In fact, there was somebody recently on that same carer, YouTube video, who said, gee, I didn't see her say this. She's quitting. And I, I'm in the back saying, well, it's in the description. You know, go read the description. That's where, where it talks about her quitting, making anti-MLM content. So it didn't come from Julie's lips. But I do believe it came from a conversation she had with Cara,

1:38:40you know, the author of the video, and who she interviewed. You know, she interviewed Julie in the YouTube video. So, you know, I think it's true, and the fact that she hasn't made stuff for a while, all fits together. So anyway, we're going to, we're going to, the good purpose of those anti-MLM crowd is they do bring, they bring the goods as far as like the anti-MLM stuff. Yeah. Like do some real research. And maybe she, she started thinking after she talked to Marco a couple of months ago. You know, because they were, they were together in Canada, in some place. I don't remember where they were exactly. It looked like a restaurant or a meeting room or something. I don't remember exactly where they were. But they were there face to face. You know, talking about different aspects. And, you know, maybe she thought, I don't want to become like Marco. Right. Do it into oblivion. Yeah.

1:39:40Do it into oblivion. Oh, no. Oh, no, wait. Yeah. Having said that, well, why don't you give people your website one more time? Yeah. And I'll have to reiterate, happy Valentine's Day that happens if you're one of my son's birthdays. I don't call. We have a Valentine's baby. So, 36-year-old baby today. So, yeah. My website is on my Facebook page. That's where you'll see the links to a bunch of stuff. And my input, like I mentioned earlier, to the FTC's request for information on product claims and income claims. My phone number, my email. If anyone has any comments or questions, feel free. So, if you go to Facebook.com, slash, stop the Amway Toolscan. All one word. Stop the Amway Toolscan. That's where all that information is. So, all the stuff that we talk about, a lot of the source material,

1:40:40the reference material is there. You can check it out yourself. That's why I do that website. And it's fairly static. So, you know, it's not a, it's not a usual Facebook page. It's pretty static. You're not going to have to cut in tech for stuff because it aged. I keep the pin stuff at the top. I keep the links on the side. It's all going to be there easy to find. So, Peter, thanks again. And we'll talk again next Saturday. Be back next week. Thanks, everyone. You've been listening to Building Fortunes Radio. On buildingfortunesradio.com. Thanks for listening. Building Fortunes Radio is part of the UMungus AM and UMungus FM Radio Network. Be sure to check out the buildingfortunesradio.com website to listen to your favourite shows. You can also hear us on UMungus Radio and wherever you find your favourite podcasts. It's been our privilege to have you listen in. At Building Fortunes Radio, we wish you the success you deserve

1:41:40and are willing to work for.