Stanford Writing Masterclass: How to Write Emails People Actually Answer with Glenn Kramon

0:00You've said that one of the things that people should never do in an email is say, hope you are well in the beginning. Our goal is to be one in a million, not one of a million. So you just go straight into your ass, like first five raw dogging the email. Hope the weather is treating you well, boring. In the age of AI, everybody's default level of writing is improved now. So you actually need to be better than that improved default in order to stand out and be considered a good communicator. What makes you one in a million is two things, warmth and competence. Say what you like and what you would like, not what you don't like. You repeat this all the time. Can you share more about what does that mean? It's not about you, it's about them and how you can help them. I fear the day that I get a fourth try email sub to climb from you or a do I offend. What I want to know Glenn is who are these people that you know that aren't responding to four of your emails in a row? How about 10 or my email? A co-founder of Google?

1:01Oh, I'm Shari, I'm Jean, I'm Glenn and we're the Tiger sisters. We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters and we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. Hi Tiger fam, the ability to write well is critical to business success. Today we're getting a master class on writing from the iconic Stanford Business School lecturer Glenn Kremon. He was an editor at the New York Times for 37 years and today he teaches one of Stanford's most beloved and competitive classes with a long, long wait list and it's called winning writing. I took this class as a student and I'm so excited to bring you these lessons. Writing may sound simple but is one of the key skills that even CEOs and execs need help with. Whether it's writing a cold email, sending a message to your boss or pitching an idea, everyone can improve their business writing skills. Better writing leads to better thinking and better thinking leads to better opportunities.

2:06In this episode Glenn shares how writing well can make you one in a million. We'll talk about how to literally write a good email because no one actually taught you how to write cold emails that actually get responses and why you should never say hope you are well in the beginning of an email. Glenn's class winning writing at Stanford is consistently lauded as one of the most useful classes Stanford students have ever taken and we are bringing it to you guys today for free with Professor Kremon himself. So buckle in I am so freaking excited. This is going to be a master class in communication. Let's dive in. Glenn, thank you so much for coming on Tiger Sisters podcast. I'm thrilled but before we go on, I'd like to return the compliment. I'd like to praise the Tiger Sisters and your earlier podcast because it got me a big gig at South by Southwest. They called me up last year. They said we'd like you to speak. I said, how did you find me? It must have been my articles in the New York Times.

3:10And they said, no, no, we heard you on Tiger Sisters. The world is changing. Yeah, it's amazing. We're so glad you can come back onto our podcast. Yeah. And so as we dive in, we have some hot, hot questions and one of the most controversial things I'd like to tackle. So this is one of your most talked about takes as a professor. You've said that one of the things that people should never do in an email is say, hope you are well in the beginning. Can you explain this because is there a place to wish people well in an email? And this is a pretty hard email habit to ditch. So what should we do? You mentioned earlier our goal is to be one in a million, not one of a million. If you begin an email with hope you are well, you're one of a million. How do I know that? In my class, I asked students, raise your hand if you begin an email with hope you are well. And slowly, some of them are sheepish at least half the hands go up. And it's true. We all do it. It's a habit.

4:18AI does it, by the way. So to distinguish yourself, what you need to do, you begin, you have five words. People are reading on their phones. Sometimes they can only see five words. Make them smile or just get right to the point. I know what you're thinking, but that's very rude. Well, if you want to say, hope you're well, say it at the end. Cheers, all the best. Hope you're well. They all mean the same thing. But don't waste their time at the beginning. People just don't even notice it. That's what upsets me. You want them to say, wow, the minute they start reading your email. You just go straight into your ask, like first five raw, dogging the email. Yes. And you might say, well, wait a minute. I don't want to ask for something in the first sentence. Okay, you don't have to. You could say something that makes a connection with them. Anything but hope you are well because it's so generic and people's eyes basically glaze over. Hope you are well. Now it is. Yes. And same thing, but hope you're having a happy summer. Or hope the hope the weather is treating you well, boring.

5:25We want to capture people's attention. So does this apply for both normal emails, correspondence with people we know. And also, we're going to talk about cold emails. But does this also apply to cold emails? Yeah, even more important with cold emails because you're hoping they're well, you don't even know them. So yes, for sure, the cold of the email, the less you know them, the more you want to get straight into it. I love that. I could see it being a habit that you ditch. If you're being introduced through someone. So you could say, hi, Glenn. I mean, should we introduce me or should we thought we should connect, blah, blah, blah, you don't have to say hope you are well. That's a great introduction. If you don't have a warm intro or someone to reference, what do you say instead of hope you are well? Just give us one quick example. Okay. Yeah. I just did it when I met you. We met formally for the first time a few minutes ago. Yeah. And the first thing I said to you is, do you know Evan Spiegel? Did you work with Evan Spiegel? Yeah. And you did. Yeah. No reason you can't begin an email. Hey, I see you work with Evan and then make the connection that way.

6:32Okay. So it's so easy these days to scrape the web. And I was telling Sheree that she's an expert on using LinkedIn. And LinkedIn is a everybody should have a LinkedIn profile. Oh, by the way, LinkedIn is a wonderful way to find information about people, their Instagrams and best of all though is still to ask people who know them. Hey, what do you know about that person? My favorite example is always I had a student this quarter who I learned that she had been babysat by the guy who is now the green baby Packers coach. Okay. And I said that in class and the whole class left and she was shocked that I knew that that's what you want. And by the way, it's not something like I hear you're on your ninth marriage. It can't be offensive. Yeah. But you want to make people smile and say, hey, how did she know that?

7:32And I love the point that you want to capture people's attention in the first five words. Also being very thoughtful about the subject line as well, because if someone's reading an email on their phone and may perhaps it's also zoomed in, you're not really seeing much of the email. So you really need to make use of the limited real estate you have. So to put a really fine point on it, if you look at someone's LinkedIn, it says they love to hike. And even if you don't know each other, would you start off the email being like, hi, Glenn, I hear you love to hike. So do I and then move into your content? Well, or that's an excellent question, or you can use it as the PS. If you're going to say, well, this email is too important to begin with something like I hear you love to hike. Fine. Then end with that. I hear you love to hike. I just went on a hike in the Dolomites that I think you probably would have loved. Leave them feeling good. My Angelou said it best. She said, people forget what you said, they'll forget what you did. They'll never forget how you made them feel.

8:39So after you've written that email, ask yourself, how will it make them feel? And if you end with the PS like I hear you love hiking, they'll feel good. Okay, so good stepping back a little bit. I think some people might be surprised to hear that a class called winning writing is one of the most popular classes at Stanford Business School, which is where you know, you would think you would learn about accounting operations. So why can you tell us a little bit about why your class is so popular? It's such a relevant question now in this age of AI. Because now AI can do your writing for you, right? And I remember when Chachi PT came out four years ago, a student that first day said, so what's your next job going to be? And I said, what are you talking about? And he said, Chachi PT. I said, what's Chachi PT? Within five minutes, we had it on the big screen. I was looking at it. I started playing with it. I wrote a column about it.

9:45At the time it was mediocre. Now AI is so much better. AI can help you improve your writing. I encourage students to use it. But still, you need to be one and a million. If everybody's writing is improving, then you have to be even better. And that's what I try to teach or the techniques that can differentiate you from everybody else. And the other thing is a lot of people, I'll often ask the class, how many of you suffer from writer's block? At least half the class raises their hand. And the fact is a lot of people hate writing, or at least they're intimidated by writing. And I'd like to make the process of improving fun. Because it really is fun to write. And the more you do it, the better you get. It's like jogging or playing the piano. I actually think that's kind of a hot take, but I really agree with it that in the age of AI, everybody's default level of writing is improved now.

10:48So you actually need to be better than that improved default in order to stand out and be considered a good communicator. Well, I would also add that now that everyone is using AI, AI's model is based off of the information that's already out there. And so that just kind of brings everyone, like Jean said, to the same baseline. And everyone's emails start to sound the same. You are so right. And that's just in the last six months what I've started to hear, the term AI slop. So what I'm hearing from my students have gone out into the workplace and are no managing teams. They call me up and they say, I can't take it anymore. Everybody's writing the same because they're all using AI. And would you please come into my company and teach them how to make their emails, their LinkedIn profiles, their web posts, one or a million. Yeah, I usually use AI in my writing process. If I'm writing an email, that's a little bit more involved.

11:52But I find that I have to go back in and make it sound less AI. So I have to go in and make those edits not really to revert because I like some of the things that's added. But I'm like, I wouldn't use some of these things. For example, like in an email, it'll say, so here's the ask, colon, and then make a make the ask. And it just sounds so it just sounds so chatch of BT or so, you know, AI that I'm like delete delete delete. I just make the ask instead of saying, so here's the ask colon. Like not this not that AI. I hate it. I hate it so much. But there are now apps that take your writing and make it sound less like AI after using AI. Yes, but I warn you some of the things AI does is right. Like using an M dash. I love the M dash. Tell me why? Okay, because, okay, this is, I don't talk about this lot on the podcast, but in undergrad, I was head of the writing program at Dartmouth College.

12:54So I was a writing assistant, which is basically a TA for intro classes for many for intro to writing classes at Dartmouth for many years. And we also had a writing program that was basically peer tutoring for writing. And I was the head of that program for several years. So I personally deeply, deeply love writing. I think she's an excellent writer. She's an excellent writer. She's a such an important skill and it is all the more important in this day and age. And that's why I'm so excited for this episode. And she's a big fan of the M dash. A big fan of the M dash. And also there are so many things now in AI that they've shown. For example, the word delve. AI loves that word. So it's being the usage in common writing has increased like 20,000% or something. But I used to use that word all the time organically, but now I can't use it anymore. Yes, you can. Don't be intimidated by AI. And this goes back to the M dash. So I've had many students say, well, I don't use M dashes anymore because that's a clue that I'm using AI. So I use a hyphen instead.

13:55No, no, a hyphen is wrong. And M dashes correct. So just ignore AI. What really your writing needs is your voice, your self in it. OK, and people won't even notice the M dashes. They'll get past the don't use M dash phase. Yes. Well, you're speaking to your people right here. OK, glad moving more specifically to email writing. So with nearly four decades at the New York Times and at Stanford, you've seen a lot of good writing and a lot of mediocre writing. So specifically on email writing since it's part of our every day, what makes a great email that grabs you from the very start and what separates it from the ones that lose you immediately. So I talk about, especially at cold email, because I think a lot of us are writing emails looking for jobs, money, opportunities. And we're writing to people we don't know. And what makes you one and a million is two things. Warmth and competence.

14:58OK. Most people have the competence because they're trying to prove that they're good. But I'll stick with confidence for a second before I go back to warm. The problem is they're too vague. They use and I actually brought some examples. So to show your competent, you don't choose vague terms like resilient. I'm resilient. How bad instead. And this comes from my colleague, Rachel Conrad, who's a great communicator in Silicon Valley. Instead of I'm resilient, my first startup went bankrupt. And as a result, I conserved cash and managed the most efficient early stage sales team in biotech. That is showing not saying that's what you want to do. Another example, people always say, I'm battle tested. OK, what does that mean? Just give an example. I worked in Washington on my car companies government relation team during the UAW's targeted effort to unionize plants in Ohio.

16:01It's cinematic. It comes alive. One more people love to say this almost becoming a cliche. I'm a Swiss army night. OK, OK, I get that. What does it mean? So how about this at age 17? I manage social media, customer retention, finance and HR simultaneously for my family business, a diner struggling through COVID. Suddenly, that's a movie scene. That's what you want. So that's the competence part of it. Then comes the warmth. The warmth is what will make someone smile. And again, it so much depends on your doing research, not only on the web, but if you possibly can to talk to the people who know those people. My favorite example, I had a student, actually, I, I, uh, taught her a company called Slack. We all know Slack. Great company. This was somebody who was trying to persuade a company to use Slack.

17:03So the emails weren't returned. One, two, three. She said, you know what, I got to pull out the heavy artillery. So she did research on the person she was trying to reach. And she found out that he was a huge fan of telenovas and in particular, of a star named who by who goes by the name Rojilio. So she found a service called cameo. And she got Rojilio, who I think gives them money to charity. She pays Rojilio to do a call call video email to this person. And she got an answer. That's what you do. You got to work a little harder. And I would, for those of you who are worried about it takes too much time to do all this, tell yourself, okay, instead of sending 10 emails, I'm going to figure out who are the three I most want to answer my email. And spend more time on those emails. Interesting. Okay. So I hear you're saying instead of a sort of spray and pray method, which I think a lot of people are doing these days for many things like applying to jobs trying to find a connection. They're like, okay, got to get through these 50 emails. I have to send them all and see who responds.

18:18You're saying set a 50 pick five be more targeted, be targeted and then go deep on each person and construct an email that is undeniable, right? Like that you can't not respond to by doing a little bit of research on each person. You know, there is a comedian, a Canadian journalist comedian named Nard War, who's hilarious. And he interviews rappers. Typically they don't want to and other musicians. They don't want to talk to him. Who is this nerdy guy? But he finds out something about them. They can't deny him to use your word. So my favorite is there were two Snoop Dogg. So Snoop Dogg's pretty famous guy. Now this was a while ago, but still. So Nard War found a video cassette because that's what they use back then of Snoop Dogg's very first movie. And in the interview handed it to him Snoop Dogg was blown away saying, I don't have a copy of this myself. They're all saying, how did you find this?

19:26You put a little more effort into it. And these days there's so much information out there. Like you were saying on LinkedIn or on Instagram, people share more about their lives. And if you can find that piece of information that you can connect with them and put it in your email, it'll make them smile. It'll make you more memorable and it'll help you stand out in the sea of emails. They're probably receiving. Exactly. Another thing that Nard War did for real Williams. You found for well Williams is very first album and gave a called the Rump Shaker and gave him a copy of it. And for all Williams said, this is the most amazing interview I've ever done. People do appreciate that you make the effort because a lot of people don't. So you're kind of really advocating for that sort of like old school putting in the effort in order to stand out and personalize your email. It's almost as if the email today I think is kind of almost considered very functional, but you're kind of bringing it back to being like a letter.

20:31Yes, it's funny as you were talking about that the door to door salesman used to have to do that. I mean, you'd have to have ideally an act where when they opened the door, you had two seconds before they slammed the door on you. And when you a handwritten letter, letter by the way would also be such an exceptional way to try to reach out to people because they're not used to getting them anymore. So between Tiger Sisters podcast, our match a brand, our personal meetings and the rest of life, how many meetings do you think we have in a week? I don't want to guess too many. I honestly can't even put a number on it at this point, but the worst part is not the meeting itself. It's actually all the follow up work you have to do after the meeting. Yeah, cleaning up your meeting notes, trying to figure out who has which action item, what are the timelines and deadlines and all the bullet points coming out of every single meeting. And that's why we've been using granola lately, which is a AI powered notepad that is built for the way that real people actually meet.

21:31So here's how it works. You take rough notes like you would in any normal meeting and granola transcribes the meeting securely in the background. Then it turns everything into clean, structured, actually useful meeting notes when the meeting ends. So granola works through your device's audio, which means it integrates seamlessly with the video conferencing tools you're already using. If meetings are eating up your day, granola is a no brainer. You can try it totally for free at granola.ai slash tiger sisters. That's granola dot AI slash tiger sisters to get your time back. Try it for free at granola dot AI slash tiger sisters. Already now back to the show. I want to go to this lecture that you have in our class and you talk about the 12 rules for email. And I'd like to read through them because I think they're so pertinent, but I do have some questions on specific ones that I'd love you to share more on.

22:32So number one is know your audience. Number two, say what you like and what you would like, not what you don't like. We're going to come back to that one. Number three, know your main point before you start. Number four, clear personal subject line indicating urgency. Number five, start with what your audience doesn't know, not what it does know. Six, be more formal. If you're not sure what your audience expects, like dressing for a party. Seven, start fast. Get to the point quickly, not at the end. Eight, be shorter. Nine, vary the length of your sentences. Some very short, some longer. Ten, write it as you would say it to family or friends. Eleven, add some warmth, even humor. 12, assume it will be on the page one of the New York Times or distributed to everyone you know. Which should be even worse as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I would say number one is very important. Know your audience, but I think that's pretty straightforward.

23:33We've discussed that. Number two, say what you like and what you would like, not what you don't like. You repeat this all the time. Can you share more about what does that mean? Yes. So especially if you're going to be a manager. You got to realize your employees might be a little bit afraid of you. You think you're wonderful and charismatic, but you're the boss. And if you come in and say, I hate this, they stop listening. They're admittedly on the defensive. And they're thinking, am I going to get fired? They can't concentrate. So if you possibly can anything you write, start with praise, say what you like, especially the people below you, but even the people above you, then they're not defensive. And then you want something. So then you say what you would like. And they're much more receptive because they think, well, he likes me. I'm still I'm still employee. If you say what you don't like and a lot of people in business say, I know that's that, you know, people get used to my style.

24:39I always say what I don't like. It's true. There are bosses who are beloved and they do say what they don't like. But I would just say be careful when you're writing, especially to people you don't know. If they don't know that's your style, they'll try to go around you. That's the other thing that can happen. So you're a proponent of the good old fashioned shits and which? Yes. Yes. And the the meat inside depends on how bad the situation is. When you're doing a performance review, some people, the sandwich, the bread, the compliments is very thick. Okay. Because they're wonderful. And of course, the best people are always the ones who can improve because that they're humble. So you do offer them suggestions. But if you're dealing with somebody who's troubled, then the inside of that sandwich, the things that you would like are much thicker. You spend most of the review on. Here's what we need.

25:41We're going to talk again in two weeks. We're going to talk again in a month. And if you're not better, sorry, but this may not be the best place for you to work. Glenn, on number four, clear personal subject line indicating urgency. Can you give us some examples of what that might look like? So there are people now who get a thousand emails a day and not even talking about texts. So they almost don't see your subject line unless it distinguishes itself. And this is back to the know what's important to them. That's where it starts. So I joke, my favorite football player is a guy named Bryce Love. So I tell the students, if you want my attention, just mention Bryce Love. And I'm going to open the email. Okay, that's true of anybody. We're human. So that's the first thing. The other thing is you can personalize it even if you don't know something about the person. If you're like writing to a colleague, you could say, I'm insights from latest meeting.

26:48Okay, but that's kind of what what if you said my insights from our latest meeting? Okay. Just words like that will personalize it. But most important is to just say what is what is most important to them so that they will open it. I think I forward you an email I received a few months ago that was infuriating. I shared with you because the email subject line was something of the effect of like, oh no, your bank account has been hacked or your account has been hacked. And I was in a panic mode. I clicked into it. And the email starts off with now that I have your attention. And they were trying to sell me some sort of service that I was not interested in, especially after reading this like fake out urgent wrong, like morally wrong. I'm subject line. That was crazy. And that that fishing like that is happening more and it's looking better and better. The New York Times just sent me.

27:54I think all of us in email and it looked really legit and we opened it and they said, gotcha, you can't do that. Don't open. And I'm trying to be really careful about what I open. But it was so good that it got me. So the idea that somebody plays the strict on you with everything else that's happening really bad news. Bad practice. But I think that all goes to show that the subject line is so important and people pay attention to it. And then on the number five, I love this one. And because it's not very intuitive for writing emails, but it's obvious when we talk about it. Start with what your audience doesn't know, not what it does know. Can you share more? Yes, I'm always shocked by this. We're also impatient. We want to see immediately. What is this? And instead the email starts with telling you something you already know. So like if you're pitching a business, you begin with two paragraphs about why climate change is bad. We all know why climate change is bad rather than talking about how your business deals with climate change.

29:06The example I always use in class is so this was a great idea. Sent to Jeff Bezos CEO of Amazon when he was CEO of Amazon. And here's how they originally began. So I'm going to read this. Dear Mr. Bezos, you have transformed industry after industry by changing how people interact with and receive traditional services, whether it be books or the retail experience. I can just see Jeff Bezos who does apparently read a lot of his emails say, I didn't know that. Have I transformed business? I'm going to keep reading. Oh, next sentence. Now as you begin to look at health care, I have no doubt you will again change how an individual receives care in the US. So that's why I'm going into health care. Bezos will say, no, no, no, this is so we read the ask you can do it in one sentence. Dear Mr. Bezos, I can help Alexa help patients needing personalized follow up care.

30:09A Stanford MD MBA, that's impressive. I'd greatly appreciate a few minutes to discuss how voice enabled platforms can transform how we deliver health care. So whether it's Jeff Bezos or one of his millions of assistance reading this, they can pretty quickly figure out what this is and who needs to read it within the Amazon organization. So please surprise them if you can make him say, hey, that's pretty interesting. I love that example because it showcases so many of the rules that we just talked about. It's a really good example where there's no hope you are well. There's no intro at all. It just goes into. Dear Mr. Bezos, I can help with this thing that you're working on because I'm qualified in this way. This is my experience and then this is what you can expect. It's so true, Gina. I didn't think of it that way, but really, I can help most people will continue reading if you tell them you're going to help them. Offering something to them before even asking something. Yes, exactly.

31:12I could imagine though that if for a generation of people that are so used to starting an email with hope you are well, it's going to be a leap. It's going to be hard to get rid of that and just start straight with I can help. I can do this. Like it almost feels a little bit presumptuous. It's too forward for a lot of people. Exactly. But I especially somebody like Jeff Bezos. That's what he wants. He doesn't want your waste this time. I met Jeff Bezos almost more than 25 years ago and he was just starting Amazon. I was at the New York Times and he came to the Times and I was so impressed about how much he cares about writing and Amazon. I'm sure a lot of you know this has a writing culture that doesn't want to put up with BS and time wasting memo. Hey Tiger fam, take five seconds to subscribe to the Tiger Sisters podcast. When you subscribe, you are notified every single time a new episode drops.

32:14And if you're listening on Spotify or Apple podcasts, please rate us five stars and leave a comment about this podcast because it really helps people discover our content and it helps us to continue to make the show for you. If you're listening to this on Spotify right now, take this opportunity to turn on the video. Thanks. Now back to the show. Okay, Glenn. So now that we've talked about your 12 rules for writing emails, I want to get into your special subset of rules, your golden rules for writing cold emails because I think those are the hardest emails to write and everyone struggles with them. So tell us a little bit about your top rules for writing a cold email. I think the most common mistake is that people are asking for something in a course in a cold email. And even they're applying for a job and saying, I'd love this job because I would learn to do this and that. They're not there to teach you. It's not about you. It's about them and how you can help them. And that's, I think what people always forget. Show them how you can help them.

33:23And they're much more likely to respond. So we were talking earlier about beginning fast. Yeah. And you just did it. Here are a couple of examples. I can help your company make the AI transition. Now that's vague. But it's going in the right direction. If you can be more specific about how that's really powerful. People will keep reading if that's the first sentence. Another example. I can expand your presence in Southeast Asia. Oh, we don't have anybody there. Okay. That's good. I'll keep reading. I've crunched the numbers and I found a big business opportunity for you. Most people at least say, okay, what's the opportunity? And you can't fake, fake them. You have to give it the thought. And I had a reporter in the New York Times. My first hire was this brilliant reporter named Tim O'Brien, who now runs Bloomberg opinion. And on our interview. So this is 30 years ago. He comes in and he says, I'm a reporter for the Wall Street Journal. Here are the first 10 stories. I would write for the New York Times. And then he listed. I thought, man, not only are they great ideas.

34:35But this guy really prepared. Yeah. See like this all the time. That's what you want to do. And he was my first hire. He gave you a listicle in real life. Exactly. Before they were invented. There was no listicles in 1997. That's correct. Exactly. So, you know, it was John F. Kennedy who said, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Just substitute the word substitute the word company for country. Ask what you can do for that company and show them what you can do for that company. I think that's the number one most neglected skill. A couple of others drop names. My goodness. Find out who they know. And perhaps they know somebody you know. And that person can introduce you. People are always likely to more likely to respond if they think, oh, my friend suggested you contact me. I better respond because I don't want to anger my friend. Okay. I don't want to let down my friend.

35:44So just drop names. Get somebody. And then ideally get someone to forward your email and say, hey, Gene's pretty pretty darn smart. You know, you really should look at this person. And they're going to say, wow. Okay. A recommendation from this person. I will look. Yeah. The other thing I think the two most important words in a call call letter are like you like you because that is where people will feel a connection. So I actually, of course, brought some examples of like you like you. I started my entrepreneurial journey very young. Like you. You guys are entrepreneurs. Not a car washing business like this person. I bought candy's wholesale and retailed them at my school. Guys can say, oh, that's pretty cool. That was just like I was like that in school to or like you. I'm starting a business with my partner with my sister. Like if you guys were writing to somebody and they're doing exactly what you're doing.

36:54There's so much more likely to answer. And here's another one like you. I've decided I will build a business in an industry where people like us are underrepresented. People like us. Yeah. It's so much more likely to get a response. You make a visceral connection. It proves you have something in common that binds you. It creates a connection between the recipient and this person that they've never they have no idea who they are. But they're like, oh, well, like me, they X Y Z. So you kind of feel almost this like moral responsibility to respond that you're kind of generating by writing this email. These are all like the ingredients of how to get someone to respond to you. And I feel like it's a kind of like a super cold email if you put all of them together. My favorite one is making a cold email warm by name dropping like our our mutual friend Matt Abraham suggested I speak with you.

38:00Or asking Matt to forward along an email because you're more likely to open it. If you know it's coming from someone important that you know. I feel like so many of these suggestions that you have or these rules are very much about crafting an email. It's almost like it's a lost art of crafting. An email part of the email the art of the email. It's not just like we're so used to being just a functional tool like sending it off just shooting off and throwing it into the internet. The word handmade comes to mind. Yeah. So one more one warning about like you. Because some students do this. Like you. I believe that AI will change our futures. Don't do it. To generic. It makes you one of them. Who doesn't believe that? It's it's just the opposite of people like us. Make it as specific as possible. I feel like one way to summarize a lot of these rules is that if you were to follow each of your rules. Every email that you write could only be received by that one person.

39:07You couldn't just copy and paste it and send it to your list of you know 20 people you're trying to hit. You just said the most important thing we've said in this. Half hour so far. Yes. Yes. That's what we mean by handmade handcrafted is it has to be customized for that particular person. That doesn't mean you can't have a generic email. The core of the email you could be sending to 20 people. But it needs to start with something specific to that person and with something specific. And where they know and the subject line to they know he's only sending that to me. I love we have a wonderful student named Khalil Fuller during the pandemic. He realized that people were waiting in line for food. It was really said even in the Stanford area. He said this is ridiculous. Why don't we give people gift cards so they can go into supermarket. It's so humility to stand in a humiliating to stand in a food line. They can just go into the supermarket get the same food.

40:14The supermarket's open all the time the food lines only open in certain hours and they got kids at home or they got a job they can't leave. So he started gift card bank which effectively you and I and other people and the supermarkets help subsidize just same with food banks. Yeah. Gift cards for people to go in the store. So he had to reach out to supermarket executives and originally their email read like a hope you're well. I hope you're doing okay during this pandemic and I said no look the supermarket CEO up. There's so much if you're a supermarket CEO there's a lot of information on you online. So just find out something about this guy and it turned out this guy had started at the very bottom and CEOs are very proud of that. And a lot of the people Cleel was trying to help are at the very bottom and he said you can probably relate to this situation.

41:14And the other thing is this guy had had he was old enough that he probably knew people who'd survived the great depression. So they brought this up and I thought that was magnificent because it's clearly aimed at him and him alone. And of course gift card bank is now I think last time now raised including in the LA area right here after the fire the wildfires has raised 80 or $100 million for people to go into grocery stores. So it really works. He got that answer started with an email started with an email a very carefully crafted email. Yes. I love that. And a great idea by Cleel Fuller. Hey guys it came to my attention that some of you don't know we have a match a brand what a match a brand. Yes, like some of my friends were talking to me like wait you guys have a match a brand and it's called sisters matcha. Gina and I started it in October 2024 and it's something that means a lot to us because I lived and worked on the farm where we source the matcha from.

42:15This matcha brand is our baby and we are so passionate about it and we really love everything that has gone into it. There's just so much love and passion that goes into our company and we want to share it with you guys. We source from a small family farm just an hour and a half outside of Kyoto called Wazuka is the name of the town and it's absolutely incredible. We've visited the farm. We've worked on the farm and we're so excited to bring it to you. So you can find out more at sisters matcha dot com that's sisters matcha dot com. Alrighty now back to the show. So one question I have and I think a lot of people might have this is what if I spend all this time crafting this amazing personalized cold email and I've sent it to the person. I've waited a week. I waited two weeks. I follow up. I follow up again and no cigar. They don't respond. What do I do then so glad you asked this don't give up. So if they don't decide typically if they haven't responded in the first few days they're not going to respond.

43:18So maybe you wait a few more days and then you say forward the email you could say just the sharing you saw this. Okay. Or you could say something just happened that fresh and you mentioned hey this just happened. I know you'll be interested. I emailed you last week. Would you have a look? It was like treating the person as your friend. Yeah just just as a human being who's very busy. Yeah. But instead of just saying I know you're busy you're much more active in trying to get get a retention. So the third thing that I do is I in the subject line if I'm trying a third time I'll say third try. And then fourth try. And then fifth try. And especially people I know because there's no excuse if you know the people. I write in the subject line do I offend question mark.

44:20And do people respond to that? Yes. Yes. Now there are some people who never respond but they're very few. And frankly you say do I really want to work for that person anyway. I always say that and I advise people you know it's not just emailing you're also responding to email. If you don't respond to email people will assume you are either arrogant, a loof or overwhelmed or all three of them. And they'll say I don't want to work for this person anyway. Okay. If you do respond to email people will assume you are warm, personal and really they will want to work with you. So if nothing else say hey thanks but no thanks anything is better than ghosting people. And anybody who's been on a breakup probably knows about that. By the way I asked my class how many of you have ghosted people and how many of you have been ghosted and always more of the Stanford MBAs have been ghosted.

45:27I don't know what that means. I fear the day that I get a fourth try email subtac line from you or a do I offend. Yeah but I never will because you're so good at responding. And I look I know you guys are really busy. And if somebody that's a good question because if I know you I kind of know your rhythm so I know it may take a couple of days to get back to me but you will I don't worry. Somebody you don't know it's harder you just have to kind of guess but no one would be offended if you email them a week later and say just assuring you saw this they know how email works. Yeah and I really love the other example you gave of giving something to freshen up the email like an article came out or something relevant to the recipient so that you can like another reason to reach out and you're delivering value right then and there in addition to your original ask. That's so true that's the best thing to do it takes more time but people again appreciate the extra effort.

46:31What I want to know Glenn is who are these people that you know that aren't responding to four of your emails in a row. How about ten of my emails. A co-founder of Google. People say you don't have the email address. I said I have the email address. I tried every wish way I've used every trick on the book that I teach nothing is worth. So Sergei Brinn please respond to my email. You just need a chance try. No you just need a corner surge in an in person event and then demand an answer. Well and I consider doing that too you know he's that's he lives locally and he rides his bike and I was thinking of jumping out in front of him like the guy in front of the tank in Chinaman square. And just say stop. Sergei does does he offend does he offend the answer is probably yes that's one good thing about trying. I have a student named Lucas Zelnik who became a comedian and he said you know you can turn the bad things that happened to you into a funny story.

47:37And so I now document my efforts to reach Sergei Brinn in my class and as the students find you're pretty funny. So it's true he's never answered my email but I got a story out of it. And at this point I hope he doesn't so you can continue to say exactly right. I don't know what I'll do. You're all your coursework emails if you respond. Yeah. You can use an example. It would be a disaster. To wrap up our incredible conversation I have one last question and it's on this idea of gratitude letters. You have an entire section in your class lecture where you talk about the importance of writing think you notes and gratitude emails to people in your life. So if we're thinking about implementing this at what cadence do we write these emails and to whom. So this sherry is my favorite assignment and winning writing. And by the way for those of you who are teaching writing in any context your challenges not to get students who just use AI to do all the assignments. AI can't write a good gratitude note because it doesn't remember anything that you remember.

48:41So a gratitude note this is the not the person who interviewed you for a job last week. It's somebody who helped you big time along the way often long ago like a middle school teacher who believes in you. Typically when we're in medical middle school we're pretty clueless. So we're not going to think to write somebody a thank you note. But 15 years later when you write that person they are blown away. They are moved to tears to hilarious laughter. They're so grateful. They say I've never received a note like this. And especially sometimes they're retired or they got laid off or things aren't going so well. And they get this out of the blue and they're so very grateful. I wrote a piece on this for the New York Times on writing gratitude notes. Nothing I've ever written has gotten such a big reaction. So just to get you in the mood I wanted to I actually brought some of my favorite gratitude notes.

49:45I feel like writing gratitude notes is like or a maxing because you might ask like well why would I write a gratitude note? Because it's going to take a lot of time and effort and it's hard to craft those emails. You know it's hard to write a good one that you feel proud of. But it's or a maxing it's karma. It's for helping someone in a way that's free to you I guess just cost your time. And that's the key is that it's not just they who feel better. It's you feel who feel better. Especially now you know the world is so angry and polarized and there are so many people who just want to make other people miserable. And you feel so helpless. If you write a note of gratitude you feel empowered. And here's some examples. So here's one to a high school counselor. I read a my college orientation which I would have otherwise missed. It was an eight hour round trip for you on a single day in pouring rain and you were heavily pregnant.

50:45You even insured I had a ride back the following day. Two more very short. This is to a woman who served in the military in Afghanistan. This is from a woman to her commander. Remember vividly the first few days of your arrival at Bravo company. You dragged your desk out of your office and into the company T.O.C. I saw it as a symbol of your engagement with the men and women under your command. And then finally this is my favorite to a violin teacher because this student is very funny. I apologize at this notice late Mr. violin teacher. Much as I was for most orchestra rehearsals. Thank you for pretending to believe me when I said I had practiced and for never complaining when I didn't shower between a basketball game and my lessons. While I should have learned more from you your routines and patterns taught me a discipline that has shaped every facet of my life.

51:47And by the way, once people receive these letters it often leads to a reunion. This woman did get together with her violin teacher and a few other students for lunch. They sent me a photo. It makes life more special. I wrote for this assignment in class. I wrote my gratitude letter. I wrote two of them. One to my fourth grade elementary school teacher who really appreciated it and was just like this is so random and lovely. And I can't believe you remember me. And the second one I wrote to one of the people who wrote my GSB recommendation letter, which I was very grateful for. You want them to be this to be unexpected. That's what makes it so powerful. And so many people said I wept. I laughed. Thank you. I needed this. And how did you feel after you wrote those letters? I felt great. I was reminiscing on the people who had changed my life.

52:47And I felt great. And I do have a gratitude letter for you that I will give you following this podcast conversation. But Glenn, thank you so much for joining us on Tiger Sisters podcast. It absolutely flew by. We learned so much from you. It's been a blast. My pleasure. You guys are cool. Glad to be here. And Glenn, for an audience who is watching or listening to this, where can they find more of your work? And more of your teachings, your content, or anything cool you have coming up? So you can, oh, I just learned to say Google you implies that's what old people say. So I think you could say you can search up me on the way. And you can find it in various ways. And I will have a book coming out in a year, which distills lessons from winning writing and also from my work The New York Times. Incredible. Here's hoping that this episode helps get me into the book. Thank you so much. Glenn. My pleasure.

53:47If you guys enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like and subscribe to Tiger Sisters podcast because it helps other people find our podcasts. And also we have a newsletter. So find that link in the description and subscribe to our newsletter today. Thanks, Tiger Fam. We'll see you next time. Bye. You