Sound Is a Force: Frequency, Healing, and the Physics of Music | A Music Evolves Conversation with Scott "Shagghie" Scheferman, Cybersecurity Strategist, Musician, and Researcher

0:00Music Music Music Everybody, you're very welcome to a new episode of Music Evolve as I'm Sean Martin your host, where on this show I get to explore the world of music and creating music, recording music, performing music,

1:06listening to music. It's all in my head, all stuff that I love to do, but more specifically, I'd like to connect to technology and how we can leverage technology to push the boundaries on all those things that I just mentioned. I think music clearly has an impact on individuals and societies and humanity large and I think the more we understand how music plays a role in our lives and how technology can help in my opinion better our lives. I work better when I have music going and I feel better when I play certain types of music and I think a lot of people listening probably have some of the same things and my guest today, Shaggy, we've actually talked about that a bit and on previous episodes on this show and other shows for that matter. I'm thrilled to have you back on. It's good to see you in my friend. Me too. It always feels like coming home when I'm on this show talking to you. And yeah, people may not realize

2:10but we talk in general as well and that's kind of the trigger for this conversation, some of the some of the work you've been up to and the research you've been doing is like that's really cool, totally connected to what what I'm doing on this show. Let's wrap about that. So before we get into it, maybe a few few words about some of the things you're doing musically. I know you you actually record, you play, you form, all kinds of your artistic and in the broader sense, music being part of it. Also creative in other things you build. So maybe a few words about some of the things you're up to and then we'll get into the topic. Yeah, I mean, music is just you know, it's life for many of us. You know, a lot of our conversations and years past have been in like the cyber community and there are just so many people. Let me just make sure my laptops plug in here properly. Yeah, no battery warning. I realized, okay,

3:11it wasn't actually plugged in. Yeah, sorry about that. So yeah, that's going to be the demise of. Well, you need electricity. That's one of the stronger forces we'll talk about. Yeah, music is life. How has it been? I you know, classically trained on the trumpet and went into jazz marching band. Then I got into the blues really, really heavy and I was actually by others' accounts pretty damn good at one point in my youth right around, you know, upper teens. And then I moved from the Caribbean to the United States. And when I did that, the guy that was packing up my two horns, which were my cherished one. One was a flugal horn, Chuck Man, Joni model, like a very special model. The other one was a gorgeous boxelmer horn, the sweetest tone, silver horn. And the guy packing up was asking me questions about him. He was super enthusiastic. He was about all this talking about the suns that were learning to play trumpet. And all that happened. I got to the United States and everything arrived except for both instruments. And remember that story. It makes me say right. And and remember,

4:16this is like for me, the peak of my blues era. And you would think I would just buy another horn and start playing the damn blues after that. But I actually got so hurt, so so painfully hurt that I promised I would never play the horn again in spite of despite the world. Like I don't I don't know where there's no rational reason why I did that. But I did. And it wasn't for about 25 years before I picked up another horn again later on in life. Actually, when we have my daughter, who's now playing the horn, they come, but he's like, Dad, you have to play the horn. I'm like, all right. So music is life. And music is this constant rhythm, right, that takes you through your life. You can remember your life through the lens, if you will, or the sonic lens of music wherever you were and what you were doing. And it's just this impactful thing for all of us. And the real question we'll talk about today is, why is that the case from a

5:18spiritual perspective, from a scientific perspective, from a physiological perspective, from a even larger quantum galaxy perspective, right, studying all the quantum forces that are at play and that field of work is what got me into this current conversation we'll be having. But yeah, my music background is also techno. I'm a live techno producer of like Sean said, I play live shows with all the instruments. I was doing that back when only a few guys and gals were doing that way, way, way back when like late 90s, early 2000s. And now it's quite common where people bring their boxes and they play and half the time it's still sucks. It's not as good as the DJ said for the people dancing. But if you're into the kind of the artistic in the moment, creative side, it's much like going to see your favorite jazz horn player, where they're improvising and they're vibing off of you and you're vibing off of the fact that it's unscripted, it's not pre-recorded, it's live, right?

6:19There's a certain fascination we have with live music, that anticipation, that space between the notes, when you're not quite sure how they're going to hit you, right? And that's why I've always been a live player because I've always just, maybe from my trumpet background, appreciated that liveness aspect to it. And the thing with the techno and the sense and all that stuff is, I mean, I, I dabble in it and I record some stuff from it. But yeah, just the idea of performing just blows my mind. There's no way I can even wrap my head around the ability to do that because I think the cool thing about it and the powerful thing about it is you can push the limits on things and end up in a place you never expected. And to your point, that may or may not be what the listener is expecting at the time. And so a good, a good performer will have the ability to work that. My, my piticle moment, my life is actually on a birthday.

7:22I played a live show with like six drum machines and synthesizer sequincers at a pretty big club in San Diego. And my parents showed up and they didn't really know this musical side of me. They kind of left off at that old horn stuff, right? They knew I did techno, but that's all it's a statement, right? It's not a reality. And their mind were blown by then by 2 a.m. They were sweating and dancing and screaming in my own parents that I was just like, I've arrived. You know, it's one of those bucket list moments where you're just like, no matter what else happens to me the rest of my life. Or if I die today, I feel like I'm understood. My parents know me. That was a profound moment. For sure. I mean, talk about complexity. I even did a show downtown Houston at an art gallery. And I brought a modular Euro rack system this big with, you know, literally many, many dozens, maybe even a hundred interconnecting wires on logic circuits and audio circuits and modifiers and all the modulation

8:24you do in that kind of context. And I created like a live techno acid, you know, 303 acid type of vibe set. And I think I pulled it off. I would say I hit the 70 to 80% of what's possible mark. And your mind you always think, I know I could have done better. I know it could sound better if I just kind of went this direction instead of that one. I mean, you're making a thousand mistakes per second. You know, I mean, it's all real time. You have infinity possibilities infinity soundscape. I mean, literally, that's why I shifted from hacking the planet and cybersecurity to becoming a synth person, a subtractive, you know, additive synth FM synth person. I literally studied synthesis in its rost form at the the modular, the lowest level of component tree, even design those circuits for that whole industry for a while. And that it's part of what I'm drawing from when I'm looking at this, the idea that vibrations or what we loosely call frequency, how we measure these damn vibrations happen across the whole

9:27spectrum, right? That's not just sound. It's also right. And it's above light and even infrasound, which is below sound frequencies, vibrations that are slower than what we can hear. But realizing that they're all vibrations, nonetheless, and they have this perfectly analog linear scale, we say we measure frequencies, but there's really an infinite number of frequencies on that scale, an infinite number. We just have all marks where we can we can do something with those markers. Yeah, in a decimal system, right? Like we can refer to that frequency with some confidence, right? Yeah, but yeah. So it's this realization that this whole massive frequency from the lowest ones that have to do with how the galaxy spin, the oscillation so low that it would take infinity lifetimes to even experience two beats, right? All the way up to the frequencies that are so high, you can't even fathom how fast they are at the quantum level, right? The oscillations that still to this day defy our ability to even measure the intervals,

10:33they're so high, right? They're so and and also so random and hard to observe without affecting them, right? The quantum problem. Yeah, so that's very different, but like dogs hear things that humans, right? But that's pitch, but is it that also frequency? Is that why the certain animals here are different things, you know? Yeah, I mean, animals amazingly operate in some of them that we can with high confidence infer that they have a quantum portion of their brain, even even a hawk. Rather, no, it's the falcon rather. They've measured the ability of a falcon to descend off of like a hot air balloon from their trainer and retrieve an object that's been thrown down with great force that's hundreds and hundreds of yards in front of them. They're the fastest animal in the world, the way they can defy gravity, almost go faster than what they should be able to based on the contours of their body as they're tucked. And they can intercept that object and there's no way their brain,

11:39the size of it is, is operating in a classical, you know, transistor synapse level, right? People have always humanity. We've always thought the brain is being a computer in the large of the brain. The more intelligent something is, but it's absolutely not true. There's a quantum level that allows our brains to operate regardless of the mass of the brain matter, of the gray matter, right? And there's people that have either been born this way or through an accident have lost vast portions like 95% of their gray matter and are still high IQ fully functional, fully operational individuals after those events are being born that way. So there's always been something going on. We're finally on unlocking and fully studying and in codifying if you will, what the quantum consciousness is. That thing that keeps us connected that allows us to know when something on the other side of the world just happened, that gut feeling, that ability to

12:40to have a gut feeling in the first place, it's all quantum driven, right? So it's a and quantum operates still off of vibrational frequencies as well. States of your brain's consciousness, alpha, theta, beta, those, those inference lower than audio frequencies, like one to three hertz versus 20 hertz where you can hear, right? So it's something lower than that. That affects literally your state of mind and that state guides everything about the rest of your brain. It divides your dreams, it drives your body's physiological ability to heal or not. It just drives your whole body, your whole corpus, your mind, your body, everything. And it's it's all about frequency, what frequency it's operating. Yeah. And we were we were talking about it the other day, and there's your daughter that said, listen, listen to a good, quote unquote, a good good song,

13:45and I feel good for the day, right? Yeah, I feel the same. And sure, it's it's the melody, the beat, whatever, the lyrics, whatever that somebody's going to tap into that they need to get that feeling, but it's more than that, right? There's there's a sound or a level of, yeah, the frequency perhaps has, and I remember there's, I think it was a thing on Instagram, I think I mentioned this the other day we were talking. We're guy was saying that most popular songs end up, even at the recording and a different, different pitch or different frequency, they, they readjust them to actually hit properly, hit, hit, yeah, yeah. So anyway, what what is music, but frequencies and intervals, AK, rhythmic intervals between words, like

14:48a lot of people don't realize and vocals, vocals is one of the hardest things to to get right when you're producing music, right? As a music producer. And what I found is that the best vocalists are not the ones that are pitch perfect, but they're the ones that have the best timing. The best, they play like a jazz instrument between the spaces of the rhythm that's structured underneath them. And that's why I like shot a, you know, her drum and bass. If you, if you, just a concept of drum and bass, right, the structure foundation, but then on top of it, it creates a canvas where you get to Bob and weave and play in between the spaces. And if you listen to shot a and think about it through that lens, it's amazing what you'll hear. Same thing with Miles Davis on the horn. It's not the notes he's playing. It's the notes he's not playing. It's, it's the spacing between the notes, the timing against the drum and the bass. That's, that is what really makes music feel alive. It's what makes you lean into music. It's the, the whisper if you're not the

15:54shout, right? There's very few songs that are loved that are just in your face and superstructured, right? There are a lot of songs that have this dynamic understanding. Like, so what, I mean, this conversation goes a thousand places at once, which is why my stumbling, my brain is going so many places at once. But like, even I was doing public speaking, Sean, you've been with me on my journey long enough to know that I started with great fear in public speaking. What unlocked it for me was this, I wish I can remember his name to give him credit, but this, I believe he's a Vietnamese guy that doesn't even, didn't even speak native English that said, I want to go to America and I want to be wealthy and I want to succeed, but he was a magician. And some of you listening might recognize who I'm talking about right off the bat, but he basically teaches people how to do public speaking by focusing on five areas of the voice and as long as you're focusing on your own voice, whether you're lowering your voice or increasing your cadence or pitch inflections,

16:59like, he teaches you about how to use all five things and me being an audiologist for lack about words, it resonated with me and it just unlocked my whole public speaking career. I was no longer afraid. In fact, I was anxiously eager to get on stage. I like, you couldn't keep me off the stage because I was able to like, present with dynamism and make the message actually resonate. You think about that back to where we were just talking about voice words are extremely powerful forces. We know this sadly through people whose parents were verbally abusive or their spouse, right? But in even a child's voice, the words they say at the right moment with the right inflection, even if they say it softly hurt a parent's heart to the point where they need a week to heal afterwards, even though the child's innocent, right? So voice is extremely powerful

18:02because it brings in all the elements of sound design. Our vocal cords are very powerful in how they can articulate their rhythmic capability, their ability to pause, to whisper. There's so much going on with just the voice that our brain is tuned to as well, which is one of the reasons why music hits us so hard as our brains are tuned to understand sound at the level of what I call force. Sound is literally a force and when you go down to the study that maybe we can transition the conversation at some point, but into what I've been doing and the white paper I've written and all the stuff, it's all about how vibrations affect the human mind, the human body, and then at some level it's easy to get spiritual with this whole thing as well, which is another level of consciousness or quantum consciousness transcendence. There's a lot of, you know, this goes, this is ancient stuff, this goes way back well before modern history, right? This goes back thousands millennia of years,

19:04so. But sound is not to be underestimated as a force. Yeah, so I want to talk about the sound because the example I gave where they're pitching and adjusting the recording to hit a certain level that they know will resonate with a white audience. Marco, my co-founder and I, we talk about this and there's a lot of stuff that we see online as well where like analyzing a Beatles song where why did John throw that note in there? It makes no sense, right? It doesn't connect with all the rest of the notes in that, but it works. Jimi Hendrix. Yeah, Jimi Hendrix, same. I was just trying to stay you know from fish. I was at a performance within the other day, and he had a, he had his guitar and a keyboardist. They were doing basically a dueling thing, and the notes didn't work together. They were completely at odds, but they worked together,

20:07and there was a big, big drum and percussion thing underneath it to kind of keep things growing and kind of people within it. But you're listening to him like, that doesn't sound good, but it sounds good. And then when Tray and the enemy says, I can't, I wish I remember the keyboard his name. He says, he's the best skunk or skunk. Yeah, slinging the skunk by the tail person I know. But don't shed out of his. Yeah, just making it raw and nasty, and the last year of God and the more competing it got with the guitar, it was just, it was, it worked. But I guess my point is, it gave me a feeling of energy and bit of discomfort at the end of it. You're like, wow. So amazing. You know, there's this idea of happy accidents in music creation, right? There's another idea that's very similar to that that my jazz instructor taught me a long time

21:10ago. And he was like, if you're playing a solo, he got all your support, you know, chords and everything else around you. And you play the wrong note. Don't stop playing that note. Hold it for as long and use whatever reflection you need to to make that note on purpose and trust your gut through it. No matter how wrong the note is, whether it's ill timed or ill the wrong pitch, just the wrong fucking note. Don't stop and just hold it. Because like you said, things that don't make sense are what we kind of crave. And what we crave really is the artist to have enough confidence to define the moment for us. In techno, we used to say I was floored literally in raves in the 90s, when the beat hit right in the DJ literally dropped the perfect drop, we would sit down to show respect, sit on the ground and stop dancing. It's literally exciting. You know, when you're saying

22:10that track, it floored me, it literally means sit your ass on the down. Because you're submitting to the idea, submission as a listener is really important. Like you can go in headstrong and try to analyze, which is what often happens when you produce music, you listen to something and you're taking it apart, you're analyzing it, you're trying to understand it. But instead of just actually submitting to the music, right? I have to switch that part of my brain off in order to actually experience music. I'm sure you do too, right? It's same thing with photography. Like it's hard to look at a photograph, you being a photographer and not analyze it, you know, with the wrong part of your brain, right? Versus just experience it first. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So let's talk about, I mean, we feel, and I'm certain everybody listening, we'll know that they feel music, right? And it touches them in a certain way and gives them a certain response. It's not just the gut.

23:14There's a reason behind it. So let's talk about some of the work research we've been doing and and how that connects to the physical aspect of who we are. Yeah. So what's amazing about the era we live in right now is, and I think AI has a lot to do with it. It's progressing scientific discovery at a rate that was just unimaginable five years ago, right? So in the last three or four years, there's been a massive amount of very significant hard hitting research that should inform us going forward. It's almost like we need to delete all of the books that we've studied in the past, almost delete them and start anew. That's how fresh quantum physics is. That's how even the research just on sound and healing is, it's affirming what we've always kind of intuited to your point, like I like how I feel when I listen to this track or, right? But it's

24:16affirming it scientifically, right? In a way that's irrefutable, that endures the test of time through thesis and study. So I would say that we're in this special era and that's really been beneficial to me. And we're, I think we're on the just the cusp of where we're going about to go in this specific field. And I don't know even how to define this feeling of field other than it's all of frequency. So the visual spectrum, which sits obviously above the audio spectrum, it's the infrared audio, which is below the audio, and it's even the ultra high frequencies that are above visual, right? And you look at the body of work on how certain frequencies affect the body and the mind, right? But we'll just focus, we have to break this conversation apart somehow. So we'll start physiologically. If you take just, I think examples are the best way to tell the story. I can't summarize five months in a 55 page white paper on the podcast, but if you take

25:16just like, well, let's use techno, a kick drum, those are usually tuned between like, you know, 30 hertz up to maybe a hundred and 110 hertz, right? A kick drum. That's the base that's hitting you in the thump. Well, that thump in your chest is right where your body's resonant frequency of about 100 hertz is, right? So some 100 hertz frequency is so hard, they literally heal your body. Um, this is why people like our bass addicts, like there's a genre of music called bass music, it's just about bass that hits you and makes you feel good. But now we know scientifically that 40 hertz is a universal healing frequency. We've known that all the way back to looking at ancient, uh, the hermetics, like wait, wait back a long time ago, the sulfagio scale, a long lost scale that you don't hear in pop music, right? Because it's not tuned to A equals 440. That sulfagio scale, each one of those frequencies now has, and through scientific research,

26:22each one has scientifically studied to produce certain discrete physiological benefits to the human body at a cellular level. And that frequency is a scale that has been used throughout thousands of years to get to present as healing. There's churches that were acoustically tuned so that it would amplify those sulfagio frequencies, right? There's, this is ancient science now being, I guess, almost vindicated is one way, one weird word to say because I personally looked at a lot of that stuff as Fufu esoteric, cool idea. It's probably right even, but I don't really care. And I've changed 180 degrees to holy shit. This is going to unlock what we need in humanity today more than ever. I've taken a full swing and, um, it's like 40 hertz back to the kick drum, hits you in a healing frequency just below above 40 hertz is 50 and 60 hertz. And what is your

27:29power run on 50 60 hertz, right? In Europe, it's one and here it's another. But that, those frequencies happen to be incredibly damaging to your body. Being exposed to those frequencies brings about depression, a bunch of other studied physiological and mental harmful outcomes when you're exposed to those frequencies. So I've been like, when I produce, produce music, this is an analog to the protocol that I'm writing. I'm literally writing a protocol for all of this throughout the entire frequency spectrum that I can't talk too much about because I'm doing it for a company literally as a full-time job. But, um, there's there are sets of frequencies in the audio range since we're talking about music. And this is the show that are absolutely healing. And there are other frequencies that are harmful. And when you're watching a horror film and they bring in that base, guess what frequencies they're bringing in, right? Like Hollywood, the best studios, the bigger cities, I've known a lot of this science for a long time. There's a whole like when I'm doing this research, there's

28:34all these tangents that spider off. A lot of those tangents are a whole volume of conspiracy theory. You might call it that talks about the CIA and ultra MK32 and like MK Ultra, all these things that we're using light and sound frequencies that were meant to help control the population, right? But by the same mechanisms, right? But through the same science, if you will, right? So what works rating is the inverse of what has been used historically, according to conspiracy theory, right? To control and harm human humans, right? The weapons, for example, the stuff that happens in Havana. Those those frequencies were using the inverse of those frequencies to create a protocol for media that only brings about what we call joy. It's called the joy protocol. It's about the most I'll say. Yeah, specifically in music, you can create sounds almost like you're saying about

29:36retuning what they're doing now. Well, instead of just retuning to a scale that aligns with the song before and the song after and brings about the most amount of harmonic congruence, which is what those algorithms are doing. Because like the same song in a different scale has more or less congruent frequencies. By congruence, we mean intervals that produce harmonics that are sound good for like a matter of words that are even harmonics, right? So it's it's, well, you can talk about the the geometry of music and the universe for that matter as well with the study I've been doing as well. I think it's 538 frequency is one of the 528, I forget which is I stand here, but that frequency is extremely healing to the human body. It's just it's right in the middle, right? Between 20 hertz and 20,000. It's of audio range. It's right in the middle. We can hear

30:37it perfectly and it's super healing. But that frequency, if you go up a number of octaves, perfect musical, you know, mathematical octaves, you reach a light frequencies that is one of the most healing frequencies for for your body at a cellular level. I mean, as far as you stay within the octaves. Exactly. So there is a an absolute set of geometry that governs all the way down to the lower frequencies. You take the resonant frequency of the whole earth, this planet that the humans, human civilization has been born from and evolved through. That's 7.83 hertz, right? It's below what you can hear at 20 hertz at the bottom level of what we can hear, but it's definitely something that you feel. It's a very powerful. It's a low frequency, right? Low frequencies travel far. So our atmosphere and our earth creates 7.23 hertz. That ends up being a fundamental for a whole set of healing frequencies above it. As it happens to those are in the sulfatial scale that we were just

31:40talking about as it happens, right? So our body has been looking for these geometries to ground us. If you think of it, almost like a computer, what hurts is my clock running on my computer back in the 90s when I built computers. We got up to 200 hertz and oh my god, we were ecstatic. The place is fast as 100s, but it's these geometries are the true clock. It's not the frequency. It's the geometry just like phi, right? That curvature and that we observe in the universe at the macro level all the way down to the smallest quantum particle levels. You see that phi occurve and that is basically the universe is what we see as humans measuring things through our senses. It's not a causal thing. phi doesn't cause congruence rather it's symptomatically how we observe congruent structures of universal intelligence quite frankly like it's literally the whole thing.

32:44It's the answer at every single level from macro to micro and that same geometry is reflected in octaves and harmonic intervals, et cetera, that we love in music. My brain's already. Sorry. I had to stop just because that went on. I have 10,000 in my head probably 10,000 different from you. I'm going to say a couple things here and we'll figure out where we go next because let's just see. So the first thing and it's not sound, it's light and power. I have this thing that's this company's building that's using hundreds of LEDs and they had had some quality control issue that that forced them to refactor a bunch of stuff but the general gist of it I think was the level of power to the circuit of LEDs wasn't set quite right

33:48which let them let them burn or let them light but not consistently not from expected long period of time and so they actually found that dropping the dropping the power level gave them consistency they wanted and also the longevity that they were wanting. Yes. So in there there's that. Let's just leave it at that. I'm on your thoughts and that kind of music and frequency and all that stuff. Well, it's literally the perfect analog to what I'll share which is that remember music is frequencies but also intervals. It's also dynamics, right? Loud and soft. If you look at all the studies there's one thing in common which is what you just reference which is that it's not the frequency as much as it is how long it's applied and how intensely it's applied. The energy whether it's a light source or it's sound frequency matters, right? Intervals matter and dynamic or power level matters. And every single one of those studies is the three common

34:53denominators which I'll say too much if I tell you how that would apply in the protocol I'm building, right? But yeah, it's it's it's there for a reason. So like what is it? 630 to 660 nanometers of light? That's it like your reddish light. That's a super healing frequency. But there's actually five red area frequencies that are individually do different things at a cellular level when your cells are exposed to these things. All five are healing beneficial positive outcomes at a cellular healing level, right? When you combine all five however there are harmonic synergies that happen that where the sum of the five is much greater than five, right? It's it's it's some exponential higher. So when you're talking about red light frequencies like the the interval matters how intense to your point to that story you just told matters but also the combinations of the

35:53frequencies at the same time. Go figure back to music. That's what a chord is. I mean, you know, this is it's all about the relationships. That's geometry that heals, right? It's not the frequency. It's the frequency in relation to everything else going on in that cell and all of those geometric relationships. Even at the quantum level, why do we feel like the human brain could possibly be doing what we call quantum compute? Well, you can't hold quantum state at room temperature or at brain matter temperature, right? You need to freeze that shit super cold to hold a quantum state long enough to compute. That's what what mankind would have thought just a few years ago even. But now with the study of quantum consciousness realize that there is a lattice structure in these protein microtubules that we have that is constructed so geometrically perfectly. It can hold a

36:53quantum state regardless of the temperature. Okay. So there's even a scientist that's looking at a certain asteroid out there. This isn't a sound super esoteric because it is. But any through some of the image, what is the asteroid that we sent a space field call out to study? I forgot the name of the asteroid, damn it. But we literally studied an asteroid, took pictures of it up close and all this stuff. And part of the asteroid has this crystal lattice structure in it. And it it's structured in a way that the scientist went way out on a limb and it tips to in the context of quantum consciousness to suggest that asteroids might have consciousness. Why not? Right? If all you need is a certain lattice structure that geometrically produces quantum state, now maybe their reality as a as a rock is not that of ours where we're we're we have five senses to worry about and and put together into a stream through something we

37:59call time. Right? For linear evolution of our of our existence. The rock might be stuck in a quantum state without any other senses beyond the cold air of space, sort of not the lack of air hitting it, right? Like in the light from the stars, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hold a quantum state sufficient to have a weird form of intelligence, right? That's how far out on a limb the guy went. But that's only he he couldn't even go out in that limb until we started to realize that the human mind and also certain other species of animals hold quantum state in their damn minds, right? Super interesting and I'm going to I'm going to bring it to the other extreme now and kind of go back to the the scale you mentioned earlier and and kind of the the sound and I'm thinking the sound bowls there are sound rooms and I wish I have a good friend that that she does she's basically a

39:07musical health therapist. Yes. And I wish I had a chance to ask her what what does that mean technically? I think the ultimate is some of them don't I have a yoga instructor here knows exactly how to work the bowls and what to do but doesn't hasn't studied it I guess at a scientific or academic level yet. I I have because I take those yoga classes with those bowls and in Shavasana I do go places and my friend actually works in the health care system. Oh so she she I don't know about your friend I just mean like this person didn't but it it's a lot of those frequencies aligned to the ancient monks that you know what a mandala is it's like a geometric shape sometimes it looks like a lotus flower of or or triangles and whatever it's a mandala right the ancient monk mandalas. I threw my study reverse engineered

40:07to what somatic frequencies those mandalas actually represent like why are they why is that geometric shape important in the first place the answer sound right if you don't know what site if you're listening you don't know what simatics are it's you've seen it you know what it is but it's just like if you take sand on a on a drum like a stretch drum what do we call the top of a drum and you play certain frequencies it will form these geometric shapes same thing with water or any liquid substance and that's called that study is called simatics so through the geometric shape you can actually reverse engineer and infer what frequency or set of frequencies right created that mandala and some of those frequencies are the same as with yoga. It's so interesting and they they're I know there are sound I'm trying to remember the name of them are the sound rooms where they're I don't know

41:12they're basically big big sound sound healing spaces I'm going to add that so I guess kind of to your your points sound and the frequencies have an impact you mentioned some conspiracy stuff I don't necessarily want to go down that conspiracy theory part but but so there's there is being passive in in life and letting the sound and the frequencies and the vibrations do whatever they're going to do to us and then there's yeah being being an aggressor we're using that to to to yeah you mentioned to control people I'm thinking government but certainly in the media right to it be able to want to buy stuff or yeah or that kind of thing so what what are you what are you thinking in terms of in the intent behind some of this stuff.

42:16Well on the conspiracy side jeez I have to switch my brain over to that chapter right because okay forgetting all this all the rabbit holes my brain was going to go down so yeah I mean it's it's I don't go down those rabbit holes too much I I know enough to know that they exist that there are people large groups of people entire populations that are online populations that are very much convinced convicted whatever you want to use that that this thing is not only real but it's hitting people today as we speak right so they're the stuff that happens in Havana with a low frequency sound stuff that made everybody sick and they continue to be sick to this day um you know when I when I was working at um I don't mind saying the name Busan Hamilton way back in 2000 right um they they gave us a demo of this new technology at the time and they

43:18brought two speakers that were like panel speakers and they brought us into a room and this was a weapons application uh not not to kill people but to to mess with them right and these two panels if the woman holding them turned up the amplitude to one on a scale of 10 right so as low lowest level that the damn thing can operate at where you can still hear it and it was the weirdest thing in in the world um she was able to literally make us all sway our heads and do crazy stuff with these two panels bouncing them off the walls i'm crossing them over right to where your ears were which made us nauseous literally almost to the point of salivating like you're about to throw up before she back off um we had to sign waivers and all the stuff um it was it was profoundly um eye-opening to your point for me at that time that early in my you know career in my life to say that is how powerful sound is um that's used for crowd disruption but also

44:24if you have a building you can literally use these panels it creates a linear laser if you well of sound where if you're literally it's few inches away from that laser of sound you can't even hear it so it could pass right by you and hit its target and you can't hear it that's how that technology works like actually how it works i forget um but it creates some kind of vacuum in front of it that just draws the sound through i can't remember right but so if you have a building here and you're gonna approach this building as let's say a group of platoon you might you have somebody else over there with the speakers projecting at high volume the sound of tanks rolling in from that sound and all enemies of course will look that way and anticipate while you approach from this other side right um that's some of the kind of theoretical application for this stuff but yeah it's used in sound disbursement too there's uh we call it the brown note and there's been studies on whether or not it actually causes you to

45:26defecate um i know i went to an iron maiden concert in the 80s and i almost defecated don't know if it was the brown note or it was just the 60 000 watts of sound that broke the Guinness Book of World Records after that concert that that changed my life um i never heard a wall of sound like that it was just like all frequencies from just those several instruments i couldn't it's amazing it's probably what led me on this journey to be honest yeah i think in duck but yeah all right let's um yeah i mean we can go down a gazillion different paths here might but uh control as well as is the whole other aspect of this thing so not just a weaponry but like certain blue frequencies that hit the certain dopamine receptors at certain intervals make you addicted to that source right right a blue light is not a natural light in nature very rarely ever occurs and so when you see that frequency your your body is is genetically tuned to absolutely

46:31pay attention to that damn thing and it also creates endorphins uh it's a dopamine the dopamine receptor is the one that triggers the most off of that and so you become um a lured like almost like a muse to a blue light um an electronics manufacturers realized this when we went to the blue tooth era when everything was blue tooth enabled part of that branding campaign was to make every led blue i had a Volkswagen sometime in the mid-2000s where the whole dash was blue i could barely look at the road because the dash was so beautiful well this side have a blue blue strip behind me there's actually a story about the the blue led that it took ages for them to actually figure out the technology to actually create the blue one all the other colors were easy enough to white obviously go figure just like nature just like make sure there's a reason why blue doesn't occur very often but it's it's a very powerful

47:32frequency um there's very little healing um research around blue light but you know blue's not just one frequency it's a whole suite of them right and some of them are extremely powerful they hit the dopamine others of them can be healing at the right interval to help mood right because it is dopamine and that's what a lot of depressed people need more dopamine so they put the blue light on right that's what we do when they're done that so yeah it's it's part of our journey so let's um i wanted to recall the story about the the gym and the the the machine that you use oh yeah so tell one i hear that folks do hear that story and then we'll spend the next couple minutes kind of bringing it back to just traditional rob music and yeah and our lives with that uh that but tell the story about the the the machine and the vibration and the frequency there yeah so i've been doing this study and understanding how healing forty hurts

48:38so i i put the subwoofer underneath my couch i will literally put on a sine wave there's websites you can make it the website play a frequency so i just go to that website put in forty hurts turn up the sub full volume and sit on my couch and it's like it like a 15 minutes of that is like a full body massage you come you literally walk around like heman Hulk after that it feels amazing so i'm at the gym and my my wife is a certified power plate um you know instructor if you will and that has different intensities and different frequencies you can turn the dial between one and eight and i was watching it and the display happens to show the frequency and i've been always at eight like max that thing out you can give me the most amount of benefit in the shortest amount of time but i've recently been putting it at six six happens to be forty hurts it's up it's moving in four different planes xyz uh all four you know axes is if you weld shaking you all different ways to improve your blood flow and and but it's so powerful that

49:42it's also kinetic enough to bring you physiological healing at the cellular level so now i go five minutes at forty hurts and i feel absolutely incredible absolutely incredible i'm not i i thought in my mind is it psychosomatic is it just what i want to believe just happen but no if i go off of forty hurts now and back up to eight just to get maybe more of a resistance work out if i'm using the bicep straps that you can use right to work the muscle harder i literally don't feel good when i get off of it but forty hurts feel amazing every time so these are not coincidences that things are uh yeah so let let's let's go let's go with that as kind of the theme to wrap then uh i'm thinking so the whole show is about yeah creating music performing music yeah listening to music each of those has people have a role in all of them right and and then we're impacted by those

50:46things so i'm i'm just wondering as a creator how does this change how you think and what you do as somebody who's listening are there are the things if you want to feel good or the things we you can look for yes i'm just throwing stuff out there and then if you're going to a performance other things you can do or as a performer are there things you should do that that will make the crowd respond better or differently so yeah i mean you don't have to follow them but just kind of that general what what what do we do with this information so i'll answer it in two parts at a general music theory level absolutely and one of the hardest things in the world to do is to produce a song that makes you feel good it's very easy to produce a song that makes you feel sad or angry or aggro or um introspectively like like the darker side of our emotional spectrum it's very

51:48easy to produce those songs it's very hard to produce music traditionally it has been now with AI it's very easy but it's been hard to do that the best songwriter i know i forget his name i think his name is Ryan i used to know for a period of time in a living in San Diego he's the main singer from one one republic the band right but a lot of people didn't know is for a long period of time and maybe even still i don't know but for at least 10 years at any given time he had written like 80% of the top 20 billboard tracks any given time right pop music and he i talked to him about it over a dinner at the ocean air after one of his concerts and he's like yes i have a strong formula for what i know works every single time he's like i can't tell you why it works but i know it works and and and every artist that comes to me i give them back a song with that formula no matter what they tell me they want to write

52:49they're still getting the formula and this was a human songwriter that knew what worked and what didn't more importantly um half of it is removing what doesn't work right but but now with AI it's very formulaic it's frequencies harmonics intervals beats um even the the drum kit you use not just an eight so like the 808 is the most popular drum sound you'll ever hear in any pop song rap song any damn song right it's literally that kick drum that goes boom and it's at hi-hat and sets crispy snare that drum machine has been sampled and re sampled a billion times but certain kits certain versions of that kick drum versions of that hi-hat versions of that snare hit way better and harder than every other 10,000 sampled 808 kits right so it's even down to the kits that are formulaic in in the music industry today it's it's all it's sound is like frequency and volume like we talked about but it's also texture and textures where you're the nuance of what makes you enjoy a

53:54sound a lot of times or a frequency that has modulation to create texture or not this way some people's voices I mean as as a guy right like some women's voices I'm really attracted to because I'm all audio I'm not visual at all I'm audio and others I can't stand I almost don't even want to get to know the person because I can't get past just their voice right so texture um that's that's everything and so on so what I'm picturing is like a multi-dimensional thing because I'm just wondering you said it's harder to get good yes I'm wondering if if the ranges and maybe it's infinite range but ranges this and most of it's bad where where it is good sit and that's just right within two lines and you have the texture and the volume and what all the other stuff but so I'm just wondering is it is it a very very small sphere within the broader spectrum that I don't know the question I imagine it's it's a small

54:56it's a much smaller sphere than what sounds bad right the good is a much smaller Venn diagram sphere um I I I applied a lot of what I learned at the audio frequency level of this research to music production recently and I created a set of tracks that guide you to the different states of consciousness um and they're very heavily tuned all the bad frequencies are tuned out the melodic structures only sulfasial frequencies like you know hard hard bound that and even some of the rhythmic structures are based on Fibonacci cycles right that the human body enjoys uh which are they don't sound structured to most people but when you're singing in your phraseology is a Fibonacci that that that that that that that that that that that that this is very powerful some of the best singers do that intuitively but you can actually count mathematically a Fibonacci in their phraseology it's it's fascinating um so I produced a song using both music classical

55:59music production tools and frequencies I can tune and instrumentation to certain frequencies that are non a 440 scale like cd e fg like that scale is bullshit that scale has been around since the 40s or so um and and mass but it's part of conspiracy theory is that Hitler created was one of the ones that institutionalized equals 440 because prior to that I think it was 438 or something or another frequency just below above it that when you look at harmonics like if you tune a guitar to 440 and you strum it which you listen for in a guitar is the wood to do the harmonic vibrations that make a guitar sound good to all of us right but when you tune a guitar to this other frequency that's been around way longer than 440 it sounds like the whole instrument just comes alive it's like it's a new person it sounds fundamentally different so you know this is when I made music production I I'm actually frequency specific tuning to that other scale

57:05so that the chords and you this other thing if you're doing this acoustically you can't do this later on in AI you have to do it with the actual instrument because the instrument has an analog infinity resolution scale and you need the harmonics to actually physically manifest in the wood to create the harmonic effect of a guitar properly tuned you can't later use AI to induce that so one of the only left hard limitations that AI is not going to be able to do is to hit the wood differently unless we have robots doing it better than we can do it all right you on oh boy ah Scott I don't think I don't think I gave you a chance to answer the second part you're gonna you're gonna mention that we can we can keep chatting another time let's um yeah I think I can hours a good good time let people kind of chew on this I'm I'm starting to I'm gonna I'm gonna try different tunings on my guitar now and see the see what happens

58:06I'll let you read the white paper if you want um I trust you like a brother uh it's not going outside to anyone else but it's up to you all right yeah I'm uh I'm happy to happy to take a look at that see you see what you've been up to that'd be super cool and uh yeah I mean this is mind blowing but shouldn't be exactly that's you can't end it better than that that's full circle my own first experience as well it's like how are we not living our lives frequently frequency optimized well there's all sorts of gadgets and widgets and by neural beats you can buy but you don't actually do the damn thing most of the time yeah like you're saying earlier yeah I think the other thing that sticking in my head is um what I think of waves and sound it's a line and the thing that I just kind of was trying to figure out is it more

59:07of a sphere and funny we just said full circle yeah and then I'm looking at the uh the logo of the show and it it's a circle there's like a record the circle see it I don't know um maybe maybe we're in we're infinitely inside something not not just a long yes point on something I don't know circles are very special geometrically trying to be philosophical but I'm probably not doing a great job at it but anyway that's what's in my head I'm sharing it make fun of me that's how the aliens communicated in the invasion series if you've watched that that has simatics and alien communication and it makes you realize that there you go the waves are actually centric concentric yes yes ah too much fun man too much fun and uh not everybody gets the joy of doing that kind of research that you do so I'm glad you get to and hopefully you are enjoying it

1:00:09and hopefully the results are what you want and and I know you're you're a good dude and uh hopefully the results are good for uh for uh society and humanity which I based on what you shared earlier I think I think it is so it's that's all I want is to be able to do the right thing at scale so that my daughter goes up in a world that is acoustically healing and beneficial and doesn't grow up in a world where she's mind controlled and she's getting cancer and her RNA is breaking down because literally of vibrational frequencies that she could have otherwise been avoided was she's using media of all types that's that's the joy protocol there you go right on brother well it's uh you know I love chat with you we could keep going um some people probably still tune in and continue listening but uh we'll have another chat for sure we have we have lots of things we can talk about um I'm going to point people you you

1:01:10described uh the uh the taking the scents on the road and one of our other episodes uh you gave give me a brief tour of of your setup and uh yeah some of the cables and the all the euro track your uh your rack stuff that's uh euro crack is right that's right after buy more modules every day so people can look that one up if you want to get a visual of what uh what up sky was talking about there all right shaggy thanks uh thanks again man for having this conversation with me sharing me what you've been up to and uh hopefully this people listening found it interesting I certainly did lots to lots to chew on there and uh as you do that keep listening if you're up for it keep creating and uh hopefully well keep enjoying uh music so thanks everybody yes thank you shag appreciate you