Song Title Challenge #209: "You Are Here" w/ Hit Songwriter, Skip Ewing

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1:00Zootopia 2, now available on Disney Plus rated PG. Right now you can get Disney Plus in Hulu for just $4.99 a month for three months with a special limit to time offer ends March 24th. After three months playing Otto Renews at $12.99 a month, terms apply. Welcome, welcome, welcome to another song. Title challenge with a question is climbers. How should you write this one? Sometimes you've got that title. It made it into your hook book and the idea that you have for it. It's the first thing you had. Sometimes it's the right idea, but usually it's the most cliche. Usually it's the most obvious. And if you spend just 15 minutes digging down past this, to just exercise your ability to look at it from as many different angles as you can, you're going to come up with something that just is going to beat everything, right? And that's the name of the game. This is not a co-write.

2:00And by the way, climbers all send in their song titles to info at daredevilproduction.com. Production is singular. There is no ask. Send those in. Please put song title challenge or STC in the subject line. So it gets to the right folder. I don't look at them. They just get channeled into the folder. And then maybe I get a two minute head start on Brent in our guest. Believe me, I'm handling the tech work. And what we do is cook up those different angles. It's not a co-write. It's a fun creative exercise. We want to show you how the pros think. How they dare to sock. There's no judgment. We just keep moving forward until we start. We start resonating, right? Until we start vibrating at a higher level, so to speak. We can use all of what we say and use none of what we say. Our only demands are that we get an invite to the number one party. And I want to open bar. That's how my writer and Brent wants child care. So he can invite his wife so she can say no so that he can go. Right.

3:00Right. Not only that, this is a great exercise for breathing new life. In your old hooks, we're humans. You come up with a hook. It makes it into the hook book for a reason. But if it doesn't receive a proper amount of TLC within a certain amount of time, it just starts to feel on a career. It starts to feel like it's a little wilted. It gets a little old and you can't help but think about it like that as a human. But if you go back way, way in the way back machine to some of your first hooks and just pull something off that page and do this exercise to it, miracles can happen, right, Brent? You want to testify to that? Yeah. So we had so much fun doing it on the show that I started getting a process to do my own personal song title challenge with my own hook book that is like 6,000 titles in it or something ridiculous. And so I started working through those and I was looking through some of the stats from what has happened from those the other night because we did a right club workshop with the songwriting pro membership. And it looked like out of maybe about 300 personal song title challenges

4:04I've done over the last couple of years I've had. I want to say this from memory. So like something like 13 cuts had a number one bluegrass song, a top 10 Southern gospel song, a top 20 Southern gospel song. A song that's on a dominated album a year, a song that's on a Grammy nominated roots gospel album of the year. So I was like, oh, just because it's an old title doesn't mean sucks. Yeah. So it's something I'm going to keep on doing because I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm finding success in those really old titles because I'm not the writer I was when I wrote it down. So it's a whole new ballgame heck. That was encouraging for me to look back at those numbers. You go, oh, yeah, I'm going to keep doing this. So I hope you all do it too, because I'm going to be doing it regardless. Brent, why don't you introduce our guest today? Yes, this is fun. I'm looking forward to this. Today's guest is one of Nashville's true master craftsman. He's a chart topping artist with from the 90s with hits like burning a hole in my heart. And he's a writer behind 11 number one songs, including Randy Travis' if I didn't have you and Clint Black, something that we do. Also, a lot of my personal favorites, Rebecca Lynn and I'm not supposed to love you anymore

5:08about Brian White, me and you. And he had me from Hello by Kenny Chesney and Love Me by Colin Ray. He's a CMA triple play and BMI songwriter of a year recipient. And he's got a new record coming out soon. So we'll definitely talk about that toward the end that y'all need to hear. And he's still making miracles happen, man. Skip you and welcome to the climb. Welcome. Thank you. I had a dear friend of mine. I want to share this with you, Skip, because I know that you'll appreciate it. But he was a huge Colin Ray fan. And he we were listening to some music is when I still lived in LA. And and Love Me came on and he was like, he stops it for the first course. Because he's just like, dude, he goes, we're going to listen to the rest of the song. But he's like, I can't I can't listen to this song like what when I'm driving. Because they just frickin' tears me apart. He goes, I got to pull over. And he hears that he has a moment. And I just thought, wow, that's that's that's a that's a vulgar display of prowess right there.

6:12Skip you a good job. Beautiful lyric. Yes. All right, guys, are we are we ready to go on the channel? Oh, you know, never ready. But that's never ready. That's the key. All right. So this is submitted by Christine Joy. Hey, Christine. I like this. I don't I don't think I've heard of this title before, although I can't believe it hasn't been written. It's one of those things. There's some good alliteration to it. So I'm kind of interested to see where we might go with this. But it's a three word title. And the title is after the amen. Okay. After the amen. All right. So I will lead off with saying actually Christine sent she did a version of this song. She sent it into for a song feedback. That's one of the services I do at songwriting pro. So I've discussed this title with her. And one thing I told her is I've written a similar very similar title.

7:15And I told her what it was. So just you know, full disclosures for Christine. If my version of that ever gets cut, you know, it's on the air. I wrote this a while back from my buddy, Seth Elby, who's also friend of the show from Southbound. So I'm going to try not to step on the one I've written. It'll be a little hard though. I'll be honest with you. Do you want to pick? You want to pick a different one? Did you have a good runner up? I can find one right quick. Okay. Yeah. If you got a good one. Yeah. I'm like, I'm going to draw close. Yeah. Try not to write. That's a worse thing. I don't know if you've ever run into that. Somebody throw out a title that's real similar or something. Just something you've written. And like, I could write it. But I'd probably spend all session trying not to rewrite the one I've written already. And that's a terrible place to create from. So. Well, you know, to take care for Christine too in that. I mean, because we sort of brought something up. And then now we're not going to look into our song.

8:17There is another thought about that. And that is you can't copy right a title. That is true. And there have been a lot of hit songs. I want to say at least five. Huge songs named Lady. Yeah. Yeah. And fire. So yeah. So don't. I would, I would just say gosh, you know, if you, if you've already written the song. And you know, that's this is Christine. If you've already written the song, I wonder why you sent that song title. You know, and if you think that you could do a better, a better job of it. One thing I might, I might say to you is, you know, don't, don't, don't toss it away. If you're really invested, if you're really invested in it. But also, if it's not what you want yet or whatever, just let it go. Let it go for now. Let it go for now. And, you know, grab something else. And then revisit it down the road. If you feel like you've grown in your own, your own writing. And don't let another title take you away from something that could be, you know, a successful song.

9:24But also there's the element of that, that doesn't have to be the title. Right. There's that. And I've told her on the feedbacks, like, go write it just because I've written it. And you can't, because I have no other in the same titles as other people knowingly, and probably much more, mainly unknowingly. I mean, cause I'm just caring for, caring for, you know, Christine and that. Christine, try that as your first line in the song. Don't use it as a, don't use it as a title. Just what does happen after the Amen and then write that? Yeah. I like that. So if there's something I can't bring my best to a song title challenge with that other, like, my own song, like, hanging in my head. No worries. No worries. I'm just sort of keeping Christine's journey and her feelings around that, you know, at the, so at least you can, you can do that. That's something that, that's something that you, you know, you can, you can try at least.

10:25That's right. I had a nice long one time I wrote, I turned into NSAI for a song evaluation. This is like 1995 or something. It was called by the time I get to Phoenix. And the guy was like, yeah, you're going to want to change that title. I think going Campbell kind of cornered the market on that one. I was like, all right. So it became by the, when the sun comes up in Phoenix, song still stunk, but, you know, at least, I wouldn't embarrass, I wouldn't, you know, face Paul made about the title anymore. But anyway, I'm actually surprised this stuff didn't happen more often. You know what? I am too. It's only happened maybe two times or three times or 200 plus episodes on this. So, okay. So this is from Casey Ball. AC. And I just thought this was interesting because it's a very common phrase, especially if you're at a mall. It's a three word title, but I thought this would be an, you know, and it kind of,

11:26I like after the illiteration of the first one better. But this, I don't know why, but this just struck me as just hit a weird nerve. Like this sounds like something like Kenny Chesley would write, you know what I mean? It kind of sounds like that. It's, you are here. You are here. Like you would see like in a mall, you know, like you are, you are here. I think there's a lot of room for this to go deep if you want to. Yeah. Thanks for sending that in Casey. And I'll tell you a church on Sunday that we've recorded this. What's that? I'll tell Casey a church on Sunday that we recorded this. He leads music at our church now. Oh, really? I see you're on the regular. Yeah. I didn't know she was out your way. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So, all right. You are here. That's funny. You said the mall thing. Yeah. Because you have the maps on the little pin right there. Yeah. You know, you kind of have the maps that kind of like show you where you are.

12:26Or on your GPS. You know, you are here. Like wherever you are. You are here. Like that's where you are. Man, the first thing that makes me think of like in the deeper kind of context, I guess, is like the sense of presence, you know, of being like grounded and where you are. And like I need to, I need to realize like you are here. I need to sign going, okay, anchor me to this moment. So, you know, I know for myself, my head can get so full of tomorrow or what else I need to be doing that sometimes, you know, I'm not present. Like I got to work at that at times because it gets a beehive up in my head of either song ideas or people I need to reach out to or business stuff or family stuff and I'm at business or whatever, you know, all that stuff that can kind of take us away from the moment. Sometimes I just need that sounds like you are here, you know, in this moment, this is life, like, be present, you know, be with the people you're with, get out of your own

13:26head, that kind of thing. You know, springboarding off of that, like I was thinking too, there's an element of, you are here, the presence of in the moment and that is the absolute only thing that you can control. Yeah. Right. You can't control what's already happened. You can't change that in the past and we get a lot of anxiety worrying about the future, but, you know, you are here. So what are you, you know, what are you going to do about it, right? Like what, what, like because this is, this is the only way to improve is, is to be present in this moment. You can't regret your way into improvement, I don't think, and you can't foresee. But you can learn from it, I mean, you know, I, I'll, I'll, I'll just, I'll just come out this in a, maybe just in a, a totally, different way, not totally, but the first, and you guys

14:30know this about me, I like to ask questions because I'm not sure this is actually a title, but let's say that it is, who is the you, mm-hmm, yeah, okay, so, so for me, you know, for instance, if we approach that you are here every way that you just described it, then you, the person writing it, or you, the person singing it, is the you, so you'd be talking to yourself, if you're singing it. That could be, that's, that's one way to think about who that you is. And then a you are here could also be the, you know, like, it's good for me that you are here just because I need you. Now that you is that is a sing, is a singular next to us, all right? And then, you know, we can go into you, allows, allows there to be multiples. So if you took that into congregation, and you wanted to, to, to look at it that way,

15:33and then also it could be the, a universal you. So that would be the first question that I would say, where's the strongest place to, to focus on that, to say, you know, it's good that it's you because I feel that the best way to, to, to do that often, because most of what I just said would be third person, would be to write it in such a way that the you is personal for the listener. So the first thing deciding you are here, you know, is this going to be a teaching song, or is it going to be a encouragement song? Why is the, why is whoever listening going to be connected to that? Why, you know, why and how? And so my first thing would be to, you know, to ask the question of, who's the you? Yeah, I call that letting the title write the song like you, you dive into, like, each word of it and tease out, like, possibilities, you interrogate, I guess each word he asks

16:33questions, but like each word, okay, yeah, who's you? Is you the singer? You the listener? You God, you know, like, it's a worship thing or whatever, is it the universal you, like you talked about, and what is here, you know, is it right around in my truck? Is it, you know, just in this moment, is it a physical place? Is it a, you know, and kind of figure like each, each of those words and go, oh, I like how these go together and try to discover, you know, I think each word is a clue as to the meaning of the song. Sure, but what I meant was that when you, you know, saying you are, you are here, you can identify where the here is, but the main thing would be the you, who are we singing to? And then why is that important? Why is it important that you, whoever that is, are here? That's the very first thing, and if you, if we didn't have that identified, if it was just, if it was just something that was, you know, you saw on a sign and it's ubiquitous,

17:38that doesn't necessarily mean it has the elements that are going to connect with, with listeners. Right. And so that's, yeah. Even though it's well known and widely, and a title, yeah, yeah, and a title, a title is, is good. I, I typically don't even start with titles. If I get a title, that's fine, but that ends up typically being a hook, because, you know, I'll give you an example, I wrote a song for, for Brian White, and it's Rebecca Lynn. That's the title, so we can dig in, we can dig into that. All we wanted to, what the word Rebecca means, what the word Lynn means, but it's not really going to help us out. And so that was about, that, that we thought was strong, because of something, a different reason that we thought that was strong, not to get into that song right now, but that's the very first thing and, and just to be honest, without that answer, if we don't have that

18:40answer, I would toss that out and move on for, I would ask, how can it be an important element in whatever we're writing? And I don't, and I don't mean that, I don't know who sent this in, I don't mean that to be dismissive. What I mean is that, when we, when we think about a title, and we're looking for, you know, to write a song, then all those elements out to come together. So right here, if we identified who the you was, and we were going to, going to try to write that, well, we could explore that, and then say, why is that, why is that important? But that would be my, that would be my, my take on that. That isn't ubiquitous saying, but it's not necessarily, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's typically used to talk to the person looking at a map. Mm-hmm. And that's part of what makes it the challenge, right? Like, we've had, we've had writers, I'm like, well, this is the part I'd say, let's

19:40go to lunch, or what else you got. But, so let's, you know, I think we get to explore as many of those answers to that question as, as we want in the next, you know, 15 minutes. I, I wonder sometimes if, what came to my head, if we made it, you know, you is the singer, right? It's, it's, it's, it's, um, it's, now, when you said you as the singer, you mean the singer is the you are here in that? Yeah, like it's, and so it's the, or, or, you know, the, or the, it could be the listener, right? But it's, it's, it's introspective. Well, that's interesting that you said that now, because this, this is, this is another way to say that, because if you is the listener, and this, I know it sounds like semantics, but not, if you is the listener, then who is speaking, is, are you talking to yourself, or is there an external source knowledgeable and, and, uh, believable source who's talking

20:47to you? Great. That would be a question. Great question. The five seconds, yeah. Yes. Well, this is where we get to kind of play on the angles, right? Okay, if we had the you was this and the person, and, and, and, and the message was coming from over here, what would that scenario look like? You know, um, I was just thinking of, uh, like a teaching kind of song where you're, with one of the moments where you just, maybe you, you have a bigger, I don't know if it's right word, expectations, uh, one of those moments where life kind of slaps you right in the face. And you think you should have, you know, you think you should have been a little farther ahead than you were, but the reality is you are here, you know, and, and, you know, how, can we expand on that, right? What are you going to do about it? Yeah. If you're upset with it, it could be, it could be in today's world, it could be a song

21:52about, um, a sort of, you know, anti victim song, you know, like one of those real life things, you know, like my dad was a marine, and he used to tell me, you know, when it comes to bullies and stuff like that, like, look, you're going to meet an a whole like that every single day of your life. I can't stop that, you know, so you're never going to be able to eliminate it. That's what the question is, what are you going to do about it? You know, how are you going to deal with it? And, and maybe it could be a tool, a teaching thing to help get around a bump like that, um, in your life or a setback, um, well, and here's the, here's a, you know, because I haven't done this with you guys, um, ever, but I, I think this is an important, uh, opportunity, you know, to, to, to look at approach, and not just a song, song title challenge, um, because people are sending song titles in, and that's not always fair to the person who's

22:52sending the title, and they may have a twist, some unexpected way of why, why is that saying important? Who is it speaking to? And why is that important to a listener, because it's always going to be the thing. Why is it important to a listener? And, and so on a title like this, you know, it's like, I, I wouldn't see this as a title, as a viable title without, without the, without the angle being in place. You see what I mean? So if somebody came in and said, you know, I've got an idea to use this, you are here, and then here's how. Mm-hmm. Okay. That, that, that, that, that would have merit, and there may be something there. Of course, we can talk about this all day, and come up with ways to use it, but one important thing that I would say is to ask the question, why? Mm-hmm. Okay. So this is a good, it's a good thing to do, don't get me wrong, you're a good thing to do that, but for, for writers who are looking for this, I would say, when you come up with

23:59something, um, it's cool, it's cool, you come up with whatever, whatever you want, but that question of why and how to approach it is going to be something that happens to every single title, every idea, every musical hook, you know, and it speaks like you are, you are here, I mean, it's, for me, it will have no power, none, if we don't know who the you is, and why it's important to say that. That is the, that is the, that is behind the whole title, the title itself doesn't speak anything, somebody is going to have to go, okay, but I'll listen to it, you know what I mean, it's not, it's not a complete, it's a complete thought, you could put a period on the end of it, but it's really not something that illuminates anything, it's just a statement effect, um, so, you know, so, so for me to practice what I do from a writing standpoint, I would say, if we don't have that, maybe for right now, if you want to work on that, that's great,

25:02I don't necessarily have a place where that's moving me to say, oh, let's work on that, next, right, that's how, that's how quickly that would, that would happen, doesn't mean it's a bad hook, doesn't mean it's a bad title. It just means it's a title that we might not, it might be better for us to spend time somewhere else than that title, it's a title, not an idea yet, exactly. And so, so I think that's important to know too, because like when we can toss, you know, we can toss those things around, but the getting away from something that isn't necessarily what you want to write is very important too, it's very, it's very important, it's like just let it go, let it go for now, let it go for now, it's not going anywhere, like if you and I were writing a song, and you said, man, I got this title, you were here, and I said, who's the you, and then who's singing it, and if you didn't have an answer to that, and I didn't feel moved by that, there's something, because sometimes there'll be an inkling,

26:07you'll go, now pull on a second, hold on a second, hold on a second, there's something there, let me roll this around in my brain, talk about it some, sometimes I'll start walking around going, okay, well, and then we can explore it, if we come up with that, that's good, but just to be hard honest, which is important with what we do, if we didn't have the answer to those questions, I would say we're better served to work on something else today, until we have that answer. Oh, yeah, for sure, sometimes when, you know, somebody throw out a title and it just, or I throw out when it just lands with a thud, or usually if I have a title, it'll come with an idea in the room, because I try to only bring in that kind of stuff, but sometimes a phrase comes up in the room, or co-writer may have, hey, I just got a title, I don't know what it means yet, but that's why I want you here, and they throw it out, and sometimes you're like, I don't know, that's just not intriguing, other times I'm like, I don't know what that means, but I'm intrigued, you have my attention, like there's something in there that, oh, I want to explore that, and try to find out what that is, and so, but

27:09yeah, if it's one that's like, doesn't grab my attention off hand, it's usually, okay, let's see what the next thing is, but sometimes I said the title, grab me. Yeah, because of what you, because of what you think is behind it, what can be the song, because the title's not, not nearly as important as the song, in fact, you brought something up, which is this, one of the songs that I wrote for Colin Reagan called Love Me, and well, in that title, if it's something that's read, which it is often, that title, that title, needs a comma, okay, this is an odd thing to say, okay, but it needs a comma, because if you put a comma after love, and then say me, it means something completely different, then if I just say, here's a title, Love Me, that's right, okay, we could have explored that a lot of ways, you know, and then who is the person who's going to love, is that a question, is it a, do you love me, well, this was completely different, it came from

28:14a letter that I got from someone I was dating at the time, and she didn't sign her name, she just signed Love Me at the bomb, what inspired me about that was the idea or the recognition that she wasn't the only one that did that, and that likely, again, this is where we're universally connected, our human journeys are the same, likely there was a lot of people who did that, so this was an inherent familiarity with the love, me, so how do we capitalize on that, how do we recognize that universal connectivity, because it also means that person loves the person receiving that note, so it was obvious that we didn't write that first person, we had to write it, where we were talking about someone else, writing Love Me, and so suddenly, the title is inherently important, it is a huge part of the song, but what is

29:23behind that title is the whole song, yeah, and you know, so that's why I asked those kinds of questions, where we just illuminated a hit that did that, but it would never have come to that space if you just had the two words, unless you had that angle, that idea, that way of illuminating it, that is different and connective, so that's why my question, and I know we're not, I know we didn't go in to explore the title with what's possible to do with the title, but I would say what's possible to do with the title is to look into it enough to decide whether it should be a title, and that's a valid question, so we can learn how to, you know, when to move on as well, but the minute you gave me something that was behind that, where you go, you know, you are, you are here, you know, oh, okay, okay,

30:28yeah, okay, if you've got something, if you've got something, they're really, you know, so let's, well, let's cook up a couple scenarios, I mean, we get carte blanche on this, and I think you kind of figured this out, skip earlier in the episode, but we failed to tell you, you also can put whatever you want before or after the title to make it go left or right or backwards or upside down, or whatever, and we've done the comma thing before too, which was, yeah, punctuation can completely change, and even emphasis like you are here is different than you are here, like you aren't this, you aren't that, but you are here, right? Here you are, you know, that kind of thing is, makes, like, takes my brain a little bit to a, like, well, you might not feel loved over there, you might not feel worthy over this

31:28other spot, but, but you are here, you know, me and this is the map, is the map element, for instance, is the map element important, you look at that, because most of the time that you are here, that you guys immediately went to is the pinpoint GPS, all that, you know, that's the first thing, yeah, and so, so if we stay on that, then that's, that's a limitation. Right, and that's on, or what we do here, try, we try only to be limited by the words and not any other stuff that we bring to it, because that's the whole thing is like, well, maybe it's not about the map, maybe there's this whole other thing about, like, yeah, you are here, love, which has nothing to do with the map kind of thing. Well, you know what, you know what I like about what you said, Brown, what it, where, the way that that hit me was, there, I mean, listen, we, we, so whoever's saying the words, I think it's, no, no, this is good, though, this is, this is really important, Skip, this

32:31is exactly why we do this, okay, no, I think it's been, you're doing it beautifully. I think that the, the, the you are here is, is somebody is, somebody who cares about the person is saying it to them, okay, to answer that question. And what if it's about, I think one of the biggest lessons that we learn as humans and, and a lot of people don't, because we all come out and everybody's a little messed up, you know, everybody's a little flawed, everybody's had some trauma, everybody's had some, just some crap happened in their life, and it's our ability to work past that, to work past those triggers, right, that can derail us in any given moment. And, and the way that you kind of served it up was really, really awesome. And it was just like, hey, you know, you've got to realize that, I know this happened

33:35to you way back then, and I know this happened to you over here, and these things are horrible things that happened to you, like it could be real trauma, you know, like physical trauma. But you're here right now in my presence, and I love you, you know, it could be, it could be God saying that, right, could be Jesus Christ saying that, could be, it could be your significant other going, you know, what, this is what we're focusing on now. But you just said something again, and not to get smaller, but if we don't, if we don't build from a solid foundation, it will always fall apart. Yep. You just said something that's important, and it's, it is a minor difference, and it's really major of the way someone hears that. You are here is much, much different than you are here. And when you were talking, when you were actually saying what you were saying, you said, you're here. Yep. I did. So the, the, the, you are here, I said, if you are here, like actually this is a place

34:40you are here, but you're here could be, you know, could change is that, who that person is talking to, it's not only informational anymore, it's more personal because the way we say English. So if you say you're here, now that's a different way, that, that simple little change right there could change the way we see that. That's right. Sure. Like if, because normally, conversational, we would say you're here, but if it's important enough to not do a contraction, you are here that is putting more emphasis on R, right, on that word that normally we would just contract in normal, it's more formal, it's more formal. It's more formal. It's more formal. It's more formal. I just say the contraction, that there's a, there has to be a purpose to that, right, and we definitely want to factor that in. So yeah, those little nuances definitely matter, because it's not a little, I mean, it's a, it's a little nuance, but it, it's not little, like it takes a whole course of that.

35:40And if we go to a title, then I would also suggest that the word you are, it's not something that we can spend a lot of time on, in other words, it's not going to have only elongated note on the word you are. It's for sure. Okay. It's likely not, it's likely not going to happen, so it's going to go by and here is going to be the important part. So if it was important for us to say you're here, that's probably not the way we want to say it. No, I miss spoken at it. It really was. It should be, I mean, we try not to change the title, you know what I mean? So as you are here. Yeah. And wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. What's, you know, except for the change, it's the same words, it's a conjunction. We took exactly the same words and put them together. So you're here, it's still, you are here. So, you know, so again, I know, I know this is, this is my way sometimes, but I'm telling you, it cuts through the clutter really fast. That's right.

36:41And then, and so that's, that is like one of the things that if you're watching this if I can, just for a minute, because if you're asking, if you're, if you're asking me about these things, we only have so much time and I don't want to hope that something is going to be okay. And I don't want to spend a lot of time on something that I already have a question mark to build on a questionable foundation. Yeah. If you can go down the road and see that, great. So that's, I mean, when I say that, go down the road and see it. If you have an idea in behind that and you think there's a way, maybe some music that's, that can be there, maybe there's a way to make the point. What's the point? You can sometimes ask the question on big on questions. Okay. So you are here. What's the point? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, so that's why I say as we, if we don't ask those questions about a title like this, then we're not really serving the question of the title.

37:45Yes, we can, we can approach it from a lot of ways, but one of the ways we should approach it is, should it be a title? Right. You know, and I mean, I'm, that's just, that's just sort of... No, I mean, listen, if you could see the inbox, it's a whole lot of, of that. Like, this isn't even a title, it's, it's, sometimes, I'm not sure if it's even a sentence, but there's enough words like, what if we switch it around? And we don't, and then we don't care that you are here is what's ubiquitous, okay? We don't care if you are here is what's ubiquitous. That's familiar. It doesn't mean that it's a song title, right? That's right. It's, you know, sort of like, you know, pedestrian crossing. That's kind of important to the last thing. Okay. But what if we, what if we changed it to here, you are? Mm-hmm. Okay. Because as soon as you ask the question, or you can juxtapose something, you can say,

38:47yeah, here you are, mm-hmm, okay, I'm this, I'm this, I shouldn't be, what, I mean, I'm just taking it to a way that, you know, I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't be the person you love, because I'm not worthy, however you want to get it, yet, here you are. Yeah. Okay. And see that, that brings, that brings with it now a, you know, the idea of, of there being a much deeper reason for, yet, here you are, it's also positive to the person about whom we're singing. Mm-hmm. If it's third person, I'm saying I'm not this, yet, here you are, which, which sort of leans into, you have a capacity for loving that is worth singing about. Mm-hmm. Those kinds of, those, those kinds of spaces, I mean, I wouldn't say, I mean, if we had a cool, a cool musical thing and we could explore that, I would say that's, that would be a, you know, a title worth exploring, those kinds of things, and we, we still kept the title, but we messed with it, you know, it's like, yeah, it's all the same ingredients,

39:50different shapes. Yeah. It is. I mean, it isn't, it's not all, we only have so many words and we only have so many notes, baby. That's it. Yes. It is. And so there's a thousand ways to look, what, man, I think that's a great, I mean, listen, to look into this title, but also a deeper look into the philosophy of, of how to create and, you know, what is and what is not a title. I think, Brent, you and I have had that conversation when I've been a little frustrated with, you know, some of the submissions, and I'm like, you know, we need to just have, I think we, I did we do it. Did we have a, I did, I come to Jesus. And episode, we're like, okay. What are titles? Yeah. Like, this is, this is a paragraph, like, are you wanting me to come up with a title from your idea of, like, it's a, you know, the whole idea is to work from a title. So, I think what we covered today was really important, for sure, and, and your angle

40:51on it, your, and your approach is, it's important because there's, you know, listen, I've, I've done a lot of, of recording, you know, amateur song demos, and it's like, clearly, some of these, some of these people didn't hear this, you know, like, this wasn't worth spending time on. Like, he, you've touched on nothing, you know, there's, there's, it's not important, like, that, that, I can't, I can't get it. And discovering that, working through that and looking back at it, and that's all a journey. It's all part of the writing journey, you know, the, the difference between amateurs and professionals is a big, big, a paid, that's it, there's only difference, you know. And so, it probably a lot of time difference in, in the craft, right? Well, not a few of the guy who showed up that morning, and you've never written a song before, and you're in the room, and you've had something, and then you show up on a song. You brought the beat. I mean, it's, you know, that's, but I, I think, I think what I'm saying is that I,

41:54I imagine that, like, Christine, who we talked about, I don't, I'm, did we mention this person's name? Who gave us this? Yes. Casey Bob. So it's important, Casey. All right. So she gave us this, on those journeys, where, yeah, we, let's recognize that we're, you're at a place in your writing, growth, and development, where you send a podcast, a song title to learn. What could happen? Now, if the, if you really are in a place where you want to learn from that, then I would say there were some things that we've said here that, that could be helpful, whether they apply to that title, they'll apply to your, until you're writing, and you should be respected for the fact that you want to learn. If you were just doing it because you wanted, you didn't know what to do with it, and you were hoping that we would come up with something. That's a different, that's, that's a, a, a different thing. But also you can recognize, I didn't know what to do with it. But it's, you know, it's, it's everywhere, like, for, for the, you are here.

42:54So that, you can run into the feeling of, you can later, then, recognize, as you work forward, if you've explored it, and you haven't found it, then sometimes the healthiest thing to do is cut it loose, like a helium balloon, and never revisit, just get rid of it. So it's not sitting around. It's like, it's like weeding the garden. Yeah. I mean, in a, in a way, I'm, I'm, I'm not really saying this as well as it should. So it's two things, learn from it. The fact that you're wanting to become a better songwriter is great. And also each one of these is once again a rung on the ladder, where you might go the next time you might go, no, you know, I remember Skip talking about, or one of you guys talking about, you know, what was, what was going on right that, and I can't answer the, who is the you? I don't have a good answer, I don't have a good answer for that. And yet that is the singular focus of the song, that you, the you are here, the singular if you don't know what that is, you don't have a song.

43:56And so you can wreck it. You can recognize that and quickly go, maybe another time. Boom. Yeah. That's a, that is a really, really important skill. So is sitting with something a little longer if you really think there's something there. Yeah. You go, it's missing something, but that's something is there. What is it missing? Yeah. Yeah. Come back to it if you, if you, if you want to, but I think that's something that's developed over time. So this is all positive. It's very positive. Yeah. Oh, I think it's, I think it's hugely important because the goal of these episodes is to, you know, what I mentioned before, it's kind of in spotainment to inspire and, and really to equip the climbers out there listening to write better songs and to get where they want to go. And so it's definitely good use of time to just set on, settle in on, okay, what, what makes you a title in your philosophy on titles and that sort of stuff because that, that's the goal of the, of these episodes.

44:58So it is completely on track and I think I say, yeah, I would say celebrate when you get a no. If you can ask, if you can ask why and learn something, because the people who will tell you know and then give you information are, are invaluable, yes, because all that will happen otherwise is you'll put it out there and no one will care because you didn't connect with those, with those people. It wasn't a shared human experience. They just didn't, they're not going to tell you anything. They're just not going to be there, right? Yeah. You know, and so, so be, you know, be kind to yourself, just go, ooh, okay, all right. I get that. Next. Next one. And, and, and, and, and here you are, right, I could, I could, I could a learning moment, like, why, why, why aren't my songs connecting? Well, here's, here's one reason, right? There's, there's not that, there's nothing resonating. Well, they, they haven't done that, that deep work on, on the title, so that's invaluable

46:01information. So again, you know, you, you said that, you have to hear you are, let's just for fun, say here we are. Mm-hmm. Okay. So here we are, which James Taylor beat us to that long ago, okay? And he's, and he used it brilliantly in a song, uh, called, um, uh, I'm trying to find where it was in the song because it's been a long time since I listened to it and it wasn't a hit, but it's, it's prevalent. You might know it. Yeah. Let's find a little light. No. I know the song. I just, um, there we are, it's about, uh, uh, there we are, um, I don't think it's, it's not called, it's not called, there we are, I don't think so.

47:01Oh man, it's like, I said your time, any fool can do it, um, there ain't nothing to it. Einstein said you can never understand it all. Planet is spinning through space, smiles upon your face, listen to the human race, is a little lovely ride, see me shining, okay? And then it comes in, there you are, like sparks, or here we are, sparks in the darkness, speaking of our love, okay, well, that's, that's not the title, but even if it was the title, that is like embraced with something that is once again universal, like we talked about also their love, it's personal and it's both of them, it involves the singer and it involves the listener, even in the arms of that awareness. So, so, yeah, that's the title, there we are. That's the title. That's the title. There we are. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was another song, well, that's good, okay.

48:03But there you go, yeah, step that, there we are, he clearly identified who the we is, and he clearly identified where they are, yeah, where they were, yeah, that's right. There you go. There we are, and right there we are, he didn't say here we are, there we are, that, I mean, it's, so, so what that, I think that, I think that sort of puts some connectivity into our conversation about why that's strong, it's not strong because of the title whatsoever. Yeah, he knew where to come with that and say another thing, yeah, I mean, so we could, we could get into, that was way off the top of my head, I hadn't thought of that song for a long time. I mean, you know, we've talked about that too in terms of like, we put it in the context of the angle of the song skip, because that's what these little bonus episodes are for. But, you know, when you're looking at a song title, let's say you're just looking through a hook book and you come across the chair, I mean, it's smart one, you know, whatever,

49:08what else you got. So you're like, no, here we go. There's a zillion of those. There's a zillion. Well, I really appreciate you guys, you know, the, I mean, I know we did another episode too, and this is fun, and I'm sure that the people who are sending these to you do appreciate that, that as well, and those of you who are sending things in, I hope that you will, will take this and make it more than about the song, but take it and make it another way to learn about your journey as a writer, because one song is never going to do it. That's right. A lot of songs consistently is the only way to have the possibility of sort of, you know, making a living as a writer, but actually to say, I'm a successful writer, or I can do this on a regular basis, and these are the things we have to learn to do that. Perfect. That's a great bow tie on this whole episode. Thank you, skip viewing. Yeah. My pleasure. You guys are, you guys are great, great, great hearts and, and I like what you're about.

50:09So thank you. Thank you, man. All right, guys. Well, that takes us to the end of another killer song title challenge. Guys, this podcast exists because we want you to win. So keep on climbing. And we'll see you at the top. President Barack Obama, Virginia, we are counting on you. Republicans want to steal enough seats in Congress to raid the next election and wield unchecked power for two more years, but you can stop them by voting yes, by April 21st. Help put our elections back on a level playing field and let voters decide not politicians. Vote yes, by April 21st. Paid for by Virginians for fair elections. How many discounts does USA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, a new vehicle discount, storage discount.

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