Show 264 - National Standards Part One

0:00Hello and welcome to show 264 of Diebode the Driving Instructors podcast National Standards Part One Hello again and welcome back to the Driving Instructors podcast Peter King here at ADI from St Albans and fully fed on cream cake We have Nick and Elliot and some Satsubos and Cumi Hello Peter and Elliot and Elliot and Elliot and I were audience Nicky but here I'm an ADI from Wellington Garden City and a trainer as well of ADIs PDIs even and the phone number is I'm not a cut for the straight sentence email I've got the cut on UK thank you Goodbye I know I'm in a hurry I'm not back Hello Elliot Hello Brilliant fantastic Peter you well

1:00I am very well thank you Thanks Excellent news Give me your cake What's the baby elephant's name? I mean I've been given it a name yet I'm not dumb How did it go? It has There was only a choice of four names and unfortunately one of them wasn't Dumbo and one of them wasn't Ellie I thought Ellie would be a brilliant name Ellie Funt Ellie Funt Yes So what is his name? Oh she Oh it did some some Romantic name Some non-English name which I can't read You can't pronounce Yeah Oh a lot of listeners are sitting there wondering why we're talking about elephant names All of us have Oh because there's a baby elephant born at which Nate Zoo and Ellie But there'd be a lot of photography down at the little cheaters And there are new line cubs as well And I'm just waiting for a phone called say come and see them Oh that's nice Because they drag you in regularly to take pictures Look I've got to be fed Right That's why I miss him when he was

2:02When I'm no longer on this planet I would like to actually be spread over Whips Nate Zoo So can you remember that? Yeah Yeah Will Yeah But not in the line before I don't want to be cremated first I just want to be spread over Right So you wanted to mention something about Northern Ireland Yes Later this year and I know we live in The other mainland Great Britain but we still an island of an island I mean we're still on an island And there's an island off the island Yep But in the north of island Because we did mention southern island And the awful death of those five youngsters Did in Northern Ireland How so I could be corrected here So I'm going to say what I know And then somebody is bound to ring in text or email No they can't text can they Why can't they text Well because it's a recording It's an audio recording so they could So they won't see it No But they could send an email

3:03They could send an email Absolutely And they could ring up And leave a polite message Indeed they could So they could correct me when I get this wrong Oh how boring Polite No We abusive No But we want to be able to Be be broadcasted on the show It was not surely we can't be responsible If somebody sends us an abusive message And we have We we Or we complete it out like the BBC And the ITV and other other broadcasters do Where this person uses an expletive language And we don't like the sound of it Sure we could use a lumber plate Like TW40 Anyway So in Northern Ireland folks Get back to this reality On October the first The new legislation will be brought in To start to restrict New license holders So somebody getting their Provisional driving license From the first of October in Northern Ireland Will be restricted to the

4:04Graduated license scheme As of March the 31st 2027 The whole scheme will be in place So if you haven't passed your Driving test before that date You would now be under the Control of graduated driving licenses Which will restrict the number of people you could have in your vehicle As whether there are other restrictions Which I won't go into You can look that up So the problem in Northern Ireland have got Just like we have Is that everybody who's already got a provisional license Is clamoring to get a driving test And hopefully they pass Before the 31st of March next year Wait times gone longer than ours You said Anybody who gets a provisional license from October the first They will already be under Graduate license rules If they got provisional license the day before They've escaped then, haven't they

5:05But But should be from that From the time they passed the test, surely Exactly so the chance are then If they got a driving license At the very end of September So before the October I couldn't remember the month before October Which I said the day before They've still got passed before the 31st of March Because if they don't pass before the 31st of March They'll be under graduated like driving license scheme So it's Anybody who passes their driving test Before the 31st of March I was going to say post the Yes But if you didn't get your driving license until the 1st of October or later You already are in that scheme Get it? Okay So it's six months Why doesn't make it so complicated Now you could say I ain't got an October to March isn't six months But you're talking the first October And the very end of March So if you actually looked at that on a calendar You're effectively talking six months And we've heard of six months Before, haven't we So if you got your driving license Before that

6:05And passed your driving test on the 31st of March You exempt from that Well now I think you'd have to pass before the 31st of March The 31st of March Well yeah, you're being exempt Yeah, it's got to start this That is a load No, no, no, hang on, hang on You've got to have a cutoff point some Well no, you have a starting point It's the 31st of March When's the new year January the 1st But why gotta be January the 2nd Because the news already started So it's got to be a cutoff point Come on Pardon? What was in that cake? Didn't understand No, you have a starting date Anybody who passes from the 31st of March It's the same thing though But no, we're saying if you got your If you got your driving license Before October You're exempt Even if you've done Even if you've passed Yes, if you've already Have a provisional provisional driving license now Right Peter, you're not listening

7:06And so no, you've passed I've got a full year seat here I don't know what you're listening to You've got headphones on It's not us you're listening to Get it? No Right So if you've already got a provisional license And so once you passed before 31st of March Next year You'll be exempt from the graduate license scheme If you haven't got a provisional license In Northern Ireland Come the 1st of October Then you will automatically become part of the scheme Right When you pass the driving test or not And it okay And if you've already If you've got a provisional license now And you don't pass your test till March You're exempt Or if you fail and have to say get again Yes, which is why in Northern Ireland The test time waiting time is stretched to 6 to nearly 7 months Because everyone's clamoring to get a test But I could be wrong They're releasing more than 6 months ahead then You say 7 months Looks like here I've got people who text me yes

8:07Yeah Day before yesterday Or I've got me driving test January the 22nd Inston Albans I still live within 6 months So it's less than 6 months Yes, but we're talking about people clamoring to try and get money Yeah, yeah So I'm saying the waiting list isn't more than Can't be longer than 6 months January That's less than 6 months away Where are we? September October November December January Four months What other months are you putting in Are you making up your own calendar? Yes I see what you mean But we haven't got that problem But if we introduce If we introduce Graduate driving licenses You will find people scrambling To get a driving test Yeah Yeah, I can see that So I was just saying there were 7 months ahead Well They don't have a They don't book test more than 6 months ahead So how can it be 7 months Well Somebody from Northern Ireland Will get in touch with you and let you know Right Okay I'll look forward to that Because they don't call it the DVSale

9:09I think it's a good thing It's a good island The island of Ireland It's the island of Ireland Yeah But Northern Ireland is part of the island of Ireland And part of the Great Britain as well The UK However you want to say it But no, they're not attached to the UK Well they're under the seat Northern Ireland is southern Ireland There is a courseway Let me see I'll show you pictures of the Giants courseway if you like Where did that come in What's the Giants courseway got to do with it Because we're attached to the mainland It all runs under the seat We're attached to the mainland We're in the mainland On the mainland But we're in Ireland Off in Ireland But it depends which way around you look at it Oh look there's an island over there Yeah that's called Great Britain Is that the time I think And there's no time difference between Ireland and Great Britain Okay We've done geography We've got the scales Can we do another subject of history now please We've done our geography Right Moving on

10:09Don't get caught for speeding in a 20 zone Because that's risen to 21,000 people They're about Give or take one or two For getting caught for speeding in a 20 mile an hour zone A few years ago It was as low as 3600 So that's a massive, massive jump Some people have been caught two or three times On the same section of road Because they're so Been trying their 30 years And it was never 20 mile an hour And they just get carried away Now luckily Micro's control on my Particular vehicle starts at 20 But never used to Did they? No They didn't In fact if you bought I don't need to Regional Honda Civics Their power steering didn't kick in Until 20 or 25 mile an hour Because you didn't Yeah There you go So take your use What's it hang on What You use cruise control at 20 miles an hour

11:11Yeah to stop my learners getting Me getting Nick for speeding 20 mile an hour Why not put it on at 20 mile an hour Your cruise control in your car Yeah Have you teach your learners how to use I'm very ready Cool ship do Oh yes I do I'll tell you what Driving examiners Used correctly at the correct So the correct weather conditions And the correct place and time The examiners love it It's not cruise control Yeah and Don't be get I teach people to Become driving instructors When they do their part too They're really ought to be using cruise control In the correct environment This is not cruise control It's the one that stops you going too fast What do you call it Break No No It's called It's two speed limiter Speed limiter I never use the speed limiter I've got speed limiter But I haven't got cruise control Really Yeah You must have both Sure No I only got the one I don't believe in Speed limiter Does the speed limiter But hang on The speed limiter cruise control is much better

12:12At a certain level It's not based on The speed of the road No you just You get to a certain speed You press the button And it will Not allow you to go faster So if you press accelerator Unless you press it straight down It will stay at Because there's adaptive cruise control Right adaptive cruise control If you come up behind a vehicle The car will break Yeah But also if you go from a 30 mile In our area to a 50 mile In our area Automatically goes up to Ah that's only That's only if your car Can read the speed limit signs And doesn't misread one now Somebody was telling me The other day Their car suddenly slowed down Why is that Because the side road was too Yeah And they are They are So dangerous So dangerous But your car doesn't read No speeds No it doesn't read speed No it doesn't Doesn't know how to read Yours doesn't know Mine car No No You got new car Yeah Mine is 23 plate But also That's Yes I've said They don't want to put all this

13:12Electronic gizmos on these cars They want people to drive them Which is why the end cap rating was reduced And one of the reasons is It doesn't have that little amber light That goes red in the mirror And I remember the CEO at the time Of that year said And Why are we being penalized Because the end cap rating They changed the rules But prior to that These cars were Top rated in a collision But just because they don't have a little light in the mirror They lost their status Crazy But yes So 20 mile an hour Yep So I would strongly urge Driving instructors To use the cruise control In the correct environment And what I remember that is That it's not A reigning But if it only comes into effect When the car is doing 20 miles an hour It won't go on at 19 So at 19 mile an hour

14:13It will say In Invalid speed So it can't read it at 19 So as you touch 20 So I'd say to them If it's already one day To set it and then knock it back For two mile an hour Because for the short distance You're going 22 mile an hour If you press Excel And you always you'll know From 19 to 22 mile an hour After a press accelerator that firm No that's right That's why so many people are getting caught Exactly Exactly It's really hard People are the other day We're going down the road And I think Oh my god I've got to 24 ready I don't have done anything Now I thought I bet put me Bruce control But it wasn't probably the right Place and time to put on the cruise Right I was doubt looking Right In the previous show We were dealing with the national stands for driving We were And how you should be As a driving instructor And what the things you should be doing And we started with Unit 6.3 We didn't know about the bits in front

15:13All the bits Took I behind it Because we feel that This is the most important part You need to remember Adi's and PDIs This is what your standards check is based around Obviously it's in loose Terminology As opposed to Proper terminology Like you're going too fast Yeah that don't tell you anything Too fast for what Is an inappropriate speed Watch your speed Yes Yes Don't stare at the speed Now take your eyes off the speed I'll be through a rewatch Where you're going Yep Just gotta watch your new speed So do you want me to start Kick this bit off Yeah Why not? Yep Okay in this element It is about Creating a relationship with the learner There's the relationship Bit that I was trying to get to Exactly You knew it was there somewhere

16:14You can't You Yeah But it should say Not sexual Well yeah Creating a non-sexual relationship with the learner Well yeah So that's what I mean about terminology Doesn't use that specific phrase Like you're going too fast That doesn't mean anything Does it You can be doing 10 mile an hour And it's too fast When there's a stop sign in front of you And it's supposed to come to a grinding halt However Where do we get to But hang on a minute That's a good one Because If they are going above the speed limit And you say to them You're going above the speed limit No I don't say that Anyway Yes Isn't that too late Because you should have taken control And reduced the speed From going above the speed limit Not necessarily Because you've got to manage the risk And see just how much beyond the speed limit They're likely to go to before you intervene But if they go

17:15100 yards At 25 miles an hour in a 20 mile an hour limit Right And you have a 10- One safe reach And the policeman catches you No he won't Because I'll be intervening by them Once they've gone 10% Only if you've seen them I don't miss much When they've gone their 10% So you're talking only 22 mile an hour I will start alerting them Is that not a fallacy But there is a automatic 10% Above the speed limit The one is allowed to go No the fallacy is 10% plus 3 There's no such thing But even now some There I say councils are becoming much stricter And saying You've got Nick for doing 22 miles an hour Precisely Which is how much You want 1000 people to go Nick for speeding Right okay

18:16So if you're on a lesson And is gone up to Or the driver He could be a she Could be in it Could be a they Has gone up to 22 miles an hour And you say You know You do it on a question What do you think the speed limit is on this road And they say 30 And you say No it's not It's 20 By then You've been caught by camera I don't think you'll get that far Because by the time we've turned Into the 20 mile an hour road I'd have already asked them What does that sign So they already know it's 20 And I'll be listening and watching When they get out of first gear at 20 miles an hour We have what other gears we could use You do realise all this 20 mile an hour has allowed a nonsense Yes it reduces the collision rate And the damage to poor pedestrians And it increases the number of people that have to pay far You could still be in first gear to 30 miles an hour And most cars and rev the nuts off the things

19:18You're not saving any fuel So don't come down If you're an automatic you don't know what gear you're in anyway That's true And if you're an electric car you wouldn't have been underwser And most electric cars are bigger and heavier They're higher and they'll do far more damage To a pedestrian when they run them over So maybe we should ban all SUVs Oh sorry, Elliot You got a BMW X3 or whatever Audi and there's a Q3 and there's not a SUV To minis SUV Right See, it's been corrected now Apparently You've got a nice high horse Which is 14 for this car 14 hands high All these minis were BMWs He swapped allegiance to Audi now There are other makes out there Where did we get to Not very far We're going in 20 miles an hour Right And a context for their learner That helps them to take ownership of their learning process It is the foundation on which the next two elements are built

20:22This approach is based on understanding That the learners who are not engaged by the training Just receive information So let's what we're talking about Are less well equipped to deal with the wide range of challenges They will meet When they drive independently Than those who are Supported to be active learners So that's what you're dealing with Which is what we talked about in the last show Who are active learners and willing and wanting to learn Yeah The The element is also about ensuring that every learner has access to the same learning opportunities And is treated with equal respect So then we come to the performance standards The only way that you can guarantee that each learner has access to the same learning opportunities Is by having

21:22Professional qualifications to be a driving instructor Correct Peter you want to do the next Yep performance standards It says you must be able to You be in the Driving instructor Yes You must be able to establish an effective verbal and or non-verbal communication strategy That is free from discrimination Does not exploit the learner Does not collude with risky behavior or attitudes Yes Risky behavior or attitudes Now where does that stand So this is where when the new Code of conduct, code of practice, whatever Type you want to give it all means the same thing That the dvsa will be bringing out either later this year or certain into next year or sometime soon Which is still on the drawing board and being finalized That will tighten this up a lot So some driving instructors could find themselves getting a letter

22:24From dvsa saying we want to see you And if you go back to the show that Lynn Barry was on The president of the adi and jc which is a few shows but was that showed 16 or 16? Yeah, somewhere around that order so not many shows ago Lynn of course being close to the ground on that sort of thing was telling us That some driving instructors just received this letter No explanation of why they've been called up to a tribunal Reading this you can understand why which is why it's important that driving instructors understand this Does not collude with risky behavior or attitude that could mean In you endos wise cracks Jokes that see see in appropriate All right, which is which which I can understand that but you've got to have a sense of What's the unverbal communication?

23:25Can you slap them around the face? That was nonverbal but nobody could see that because I waived that it was thumbs up That thumbs up shrugging your shoulders Elliot you just described in the previous show about your student Who's to just shrug their shoulders when they're asked a question? Yeah, I should use a lot of hand But hand gestures Just to end No, there's a slow down you know change up gear or whatever you know we've got Things that second But when I was teaching Change up gear using your hand. I'm just Like that Now when when you're teaching somebody who's profoundly deaf Well getting faster Then you might need to encourage them To to make a nup put with them a gear change. We just um trying me fingers

24:27Probably six give you go go like that So easy to I do reverse Just point backwards Oh just point to the gear knob Reverse all right it down have flash cut I mean when I was teaching people You can't explain them to read while they're dry. Yeah, they could read they're very clever You do talk to them sometimes though you don't have to do everything by hand signs and No true, uh, I mean one lad I taught that he Yeah, he's hearing aids could like mine now could could hear what I was saying so he understood what I was saying You that that was that was point one now right point two point two Make sure the learner fully understands the objectives structure and formal assessment requirements of the program

25:30Make sure the learner fully understands the objectives structure and formal assessment of the program Love it when you read and then you read again just wake up what he did to say out loud and then I read it to understand it Well, that would be sitting your goals. Yeah, and and setting out the behavior from them as well as from you Yeah, but I mean if you're learning wanted to make some wise cracks or jokes that you might think as inappropriate would you pull them up on that Or don't think you should be saying that. I'll just let it go of me. Yeah, I couldn't care less. Yeah Basically, how would you care? Earlier somebody made a A remark no no because the chances are they're just repeating something I've said Yes, the only the only time I might criticize my pupil is if they're making derogatory comments about other dryers And then turn around say that's my uncle driving that car. I love a word with you

26:30Well, no, I mean it it The Actually, there's quite often that used to happen you do you would get a learner the comments about Um another driver the poor behavior. Yeah, it's always the poor behavior. Not the good behavior We used to I used to say well Great, but you can't say that only driving test because he's being aggressive It could be seen to be being aggressive. No, it could be heard to be aggressive or could be heard and seek to be great But it depends on the body language So Are you on back in the window, please? We're not doing our own signals today And signals. Yeah, it's good job. We're not on YouTube. It is We've been taken off RISKEy behavior Who knows

27:31Number three explain how you expect to work with the learner and how you expect them to work with you Yeah, have you ever done that earlier why are you here? I want to learn the drive right okay We've got that sorted in and I'm gonna teach you coach you and encourage you let's go You don't want to say any of it Ah Right number four Number four Make sure the learner understands what other opportunities methods and resources are available and how these can Be included in their overall learning process. You've called the highway code that a lot of driving instructors don't even know Make sure the learner understands what other opportunities are available changing driving So got it Why? Yes Your turn

28:31Right under the knowledge and understanding Knowledge and understanding requirements so so so hang on just to show yes, they're a mirror of one another Yes, now it's going to become as clear as mud to you earlier Performance standards which we've done and now knowledge and understanding requirements You must know and understand a How to ensure and improve good verbal and or non-verbal communication such as by using good eye contact where this is culturally acceptable Using consistent language Breaking things into manageable pieces That's violence Um breaking things into manageable pieces using graphics pictures and other visual aids to reinforce your words Be the content of principles of the relevant national standard for driving

29:32Which is what you're reading now? Yeah Um, I'd see the evidence that indicates that an active and lifelong approach in learning Which uses the risk of crashes and the long term cost of driving Hmm, we're just going to get even more expensive So what evidence is there about what oh the evidence yeah the evidence that indicates one evidence is there to indicate that an Active and lifelong approach to learning which uses the risk of crashes and the long term cost of driving So you good point out The consequences of a crash how expensive is how many people will suffer from somebody Being a this seriously injured and permanent life change in injuries to death I mean you got to think there's five young men. No, that doesn't say this week That's that's not what it says the evidence that indicates that an active and lifelong approach to learning reduces the risk

30:34You're not saying the evidence of having so defaced So if you were to read the book defensive driving and an eco-style Styler driving so if we then cross over we're not going to do that this time to the driving instructors handbook and look at the driving syllabus of 14 Yeah prepare the vehicle and its occupancy for a journey Guide and control the vehicle drive in accordance with the highway code Drive safely and efficiently and therefore go on it goes on to say driving in a defensive manner So there's your evidence to show that if you drove like that the risk of being involved in a serious collision are Retuced you could also talk about drink driving drugs and driving So there's your evidence base The evidence that it cares and active and lifelong approach to learning i.e constantly reading the new additions of the highway code

31:42Well, yeah, whenever you do that. No one does that But there's why we have so many crashes one does you Yes To say though what you've read on the right hand side of the column is is Basically knowledge and understanding requirements crosses back to the performance standard Yeah, that's why it's in a column. I mean it was there Yeah Breaking things you didn't Breaking, yeah, not breaking you know, I used to have a trainee and whenever you spell breaking you always spell it that way instead of break as in BRHK No, that's not yeah breaking things down into small bits so in other words manageable be manageable with in other words Is managed to say that you're speaking to Can't understand full Sentences just break it down into little bit There is possibility that they may not be able to understand what you're saying and the terminology that you're using yeah

32:48Yeah, so you you're better off and in situations like that Perhaps bring in a little bit of humor to be able to Explain the point if your humor is not risky or as exploiting your learner See Well, no or other people on the road now using good eye contact now when somebody's driving along the last thing you want to do Or get them to turn. Yeah, you ever had that Yeah, learners turn when you start talking or they turn me when you're talking. Yeah, don't yeah, don't make eye contact with me But often a lot of young people but other people as well don't have to be young. Can't make eye contact can they? No, because they're not used to it because they're used to talking to a screen correct. Yeah Or you know, a team or or or or other Me yeah face it. What do we use

33:49When we have somebody who comes on I've zoom Yes Yeah, you don't make eye contact then do you Not really no using consistent language So as we would suggest that's using the same terminology all the time for the same thing instead of swapping the words around but mean the same I'm not if you have to break it up into manageable pieces That's what having a cake and splitting it up into small bits What what why do you have a why do you have a I'll use the correct it why do you have an issue Elliott with manageable bits or pieces or things Well, do you not get the concept? I don't have an issue with that You just see Did you not like the word breaking? But you as a driving instructor

34:50In the day would break would break bits down like if you were teaching junctions You wouldn't do the whole thing you would break the MSNPSL ADA bit into small manageable pieces, wouldn't you? They are there. It's then yeah, yeah, so you're not without your knowledge What you do is you get them if you're doing junctions to do it manageable You get them to go up to the junction. Yeah, okay, then stop then tell them what the next bit is You Indicate Yeah, right and then by the time you actually get round the corner you've got a whole cube behind you because they're waiting for you to get Yeah It's called hesitation No, it's deviation or I'll speak you without repetition Yes, that's three minutes. That's just a minute. No, it's just a minute just a minute. How do you say just 15? I said three minutes

35:51If you can talk without deviation or hesitation for one minute or repetition or repetition then you've You get an extra point you get an extra point It's very good. What a point to me. Price is It's good program that one Monday month and the moments on Monday evenings at 6.30 radio for but there are other radio stations out there that don't play music I've got about a minute or two He's got to minute Well, unless he wants to leave us to actually So folks We didn't turn the page Because somebody keeps interrupting us. Well, no, we were trying to analyze it. We're going down into manageable pieces Yeah, we'll carry on so we not now we will carry on we'll put a full stop to buy you want to carry on now Oh, no, no, no, no, we won't get that done in a minute. It's got to go and we've got to move our cars because see otherwise you can't get out

36:55Oh, yeah, I'm blocking him in right. Yes, so folks Thank you for listening As always we try and make this sort of serious stuff a bit more like In the room and It is important that you look at this document even though as we're trying to interpret it for you It is important you follow it. I appreciate that some of the wording or verb age is sort of Obscure to some people but that's why we try and break it down for you We will over the next series of shows try and continue this without boring the pants or few and you falling asleep wake up Elliot Peter you still awake because you got a pressure no I'll be watching him on the table move she's looking for the elephant I was in the park the other day And I come across this black me was sprinkling white powder. I said we're doing you guys on keeping the elephant so I said there's no elephant

37:55Surrounding shows its work in them You said we'd sign off with a I don't worry there's nobody got to pull the plug on us only that man there And if you want to read no wait, you want to leave a polite message Well, you can be in polite because he'll just bleep it out. We like in polite Then you can call us on 08 432 892 556 Oh, you can send us a little email to adi at dipod.co.uk Or of course you can go to our website at www.dipod.co.uk And on the page I'll leave a link to the standards Trivix E Yes, that's what we've been reading National standards of driving indeed unriding So will that also say goodbye? Goodbye thank you for this Speak to you hopefully in September we'll find a really fun picture on our own going away not together

38:55No, right All right, we'll speak to you in a bit