
Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken — How LLMs actually think
About this episode
Had so much fun chatting with my good friends Trenton Bricken and Sholto Douglas on the podcast.
No way to summarize it, except:
This is the best context dump out there on how LLMs are trained, what capabilities they're likely to soon have, and what exactly is going on inside them.
You would be shocked how much of what I know about this field, I've learned just from talking with them.
To the extent that you've enjoyed my other AI interviews, now you know why.
So excited to put this out. Enjoy! I certainly did :)
Watch on YouTube. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast platform.
There's a transcript with links to all the papers the boys were throwing down - may help you follow along.
Follow Trenton and Sholto on Twitter.
Timestamps
(00:00:00) - Long contexts
(00:16:12) - Intelligence is just associations
(00:32:35) - Intelligence explosion & great researchers
(01:06:52) - Superposition & secret communication
(01:22:34) - Agents & true reasoning
(01:34:40) - How Sholto & Trenton got into AI research
(02:07:16) - Are feature spaces the wrong way to think about intelligence?
(02:21:12) - Will interp actually work on superhuman models
(02:45:05) - Sholto’s technical challenge for the audience
(03:03:57) - Rapid fire
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dwarkesh.com
Get every episode summarized
Each time Dwarkesh Podcast publishes, we email you a written briefing from the transcript — the topics, who appeared, and any specific claims, with the ad reads skipped.
Email me new episodesFree for 3 shows. No card needed.
Hosts & guests
No transcript yet
This episode has not been transcribed. Request it and it moves to the front of the queue.
More episodes
More from Dwarkesh Podcast

Ajeya Cotra – Inside the OpenAI agent swarm that hacked Hugging Face
Dwarkesh Podcast

The rise and fall of agent civilizations
Dwarkesh Podcast

Dylan Patel – Anthropic & OpenAI will have most of the world’s compute by 2028
Dwarkesh Podcast

Ryan Greenblatt – What happens once AI can automate AI research?
Dwarkesh Podcast