S8 Ep546: ### Segment 4 Headline: Artificial Intelligence Goes to War: The Role of Anthropic’s Claude AI Summary: The discussion focuses on the integration of AI in military targeting simulations and the public dispute between the administration and AI developer An

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1:16I'm John Bash with my colleague Richard Epstein, a professor of law at NYU University of Chicago, and he is at the Sybotos Institute. The challenge Richard is artificial intelligence at war. The administration is broken with one particular large language model company, private, so far, not publicly traded. It's called Anthropic, and its mechanism is called Claude. The administration before the conflict started in the Middle East said that Anthropic was no longer welcome throughout the federal government. However, we learn from the economist magazine and other reporting that Anthropics Claude is in the war, doing targeting simulations and other helpmates to the war fighters right now, Claude AI. The Anthropic demand was we won't share our program with you, unless you promise it will not be used for so-called autonomous weapons,

2:19that is, no human in the decision chain before the killer order is given, and surveillance that deprives people of human rights. That is the routine matter that the Chinese use for facial recognition and other ways to persecute their opponents. Both those debates are open and ended, but AI goes to war. It's upon us Richard, the one was asked, here it is, and your measure of how the law will deal with someone who has been damaged by a machine. Look, I mean, I'm not an expert on AI, but essentially if you want to introduce human decisions into the chain, you have to do it very early on in the cycle, because people can't think in millions of seconds, which is the way these decisions have to be made. And so if you then looked at the debate, the thing that struck me is, heck says, you are a social risk and we can't keep you. And then on the other hand, he says,

3:20we have no intention to do either of these things, that Anthropic doesn't want the Anthropic must to be done. So why can't these two guys reach an advantage on this? The United States cannot abandon a technology which it is using right now in the middle of the war. It ties them at the point that you just made early, and that the clock is running on this. And if you have only a couple of days in order to finish your business, the last thing you want to do is to change models on how it is that you organize it. I like it done by Monday market opening, Richard, that the numbers suggest that we don't have much time. Well, then you just have to stick with, I just think this is a kind of a public spat, which should have been private. And then what they do is they work out some parameters on this. The other point, of course, is that if somebody wants to use this for a facial recognition or anything else, there's nothing that you can do to stop this. We've seen this debate on the civil side, and I can recall if you start looking at some of these terrorist attacks, the only way to figure out how to stop them is to have facial recognition tests,

4:21which allow you to identify in real time the people who are causing the particular damage. And what you then need is certain kinds of institutional safeguard. And so what we do with respect to facial recognition in the combat situation is we keep the tapes there and you put them under lock and key. And then when you have an event that requires their use, you open up the thing and see what you could find out from it. Clearly, some kind of solution like that should be open to these two guys to work out. And I just don't want to see two butt bull headed people create a situation in which we compromise the overall advance of AI technology in the United States. And we have the overall production and war. And so I guess the thing that drives me a little bit crazy is I'm no fan of PTSD. Everybody knows that. But why would you want to make this a public spot before you get yourself into some private situation in which you actually try to control for the dangers that existed? This to me is a complete mystery. So the Shakespearean phrase which so often apply a plague on both your houses seems to apply to this particular case.

5:26When you have a war effort and you think back to the second world war, none of these disputes were ever allowed to interfere with war production. And if you recall, for example, with the war labor act, you couldn't have strikes during the second world war. When you did it, you had to absorb it and contracts being given to unions to make sure their production continued along its merry way. I think they have to be able to figure out something like that to do in order to ease the particular pain. And it's a particularly important but Trump to be able to do it because he does not want an initiative that looked to be positive at the outset to turn salad on him. I don't think that it will, as I said in my piece on this on Sybotan is if the only thing that this particular war accomplished was disrupting the leadership was worth doing. But certainly, you don't want to stop there. There are other gains that you could get, either on the technological side or on the political side. So I'm a bit up in the air and flowing spiral all this and hope that the thing dies down quickly. Other companies will surely move in. And even if there's a company today that

6:31won't move in, you look at these companies that have crossed the trillion dollar valuations in the market. Right. Right. The market, the market will out. Richard Epstein, Professor Richard Epstein, the Sybotan Institute at the University of Texas. At Austin, I'm John Bachelors. Warning, the following Zippercruder radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring, we at Zippercruder know you can feel frustrated for Lauren even. Like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, Zippercruder figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try Zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. With Zippercruder, you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite effort. In fact, four out of five employers who post on Zippercruder

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