S7E3: Caring is Messy - When Loving People Gets Complicated | Charles & Beverly

0:00Welcome to the old. I'm Beth and I'm Craig and we have a different set today because we are honored to have some special They are incredible people. You're gonna love them. We just spent time chatting with Charles and Beverly They are partners with us in the Middle East and in Europe doing discipleship training and and serving traffic Women and on I mean, yeah, let's just too long to say everything. It is it is and Charles was telling us he Started at arcade when he first became a believer and they sent him to Mexico on a mission strip And he just kind of hasn't stalks. Yeah, and they they they have not stopped and it's a great lesson to us all you are gonna Love this show and the kids should listen. Oh, absolutely. Yeah kids gather around watch your listen together. It is a great Chat with it is it is are you ready? I'm ready. Are you ready? Which way are you going that way? Oh, you're going that way. Oh, good. Here we go. Here we go

1:09Well, hey guys. Thank you for joining us. It is so great to have you with us Charles and Beverly are with us and Beverly your plant hurt a little bit because you got your eyes dilated. Yeah, so I'm wearing sunglasses. You're not being mysterious No, I'm just too cool. Yeah, you're way too cool. You're way too cool. It's so good to have you with us Yeah, Charles and Beverly are partners with us serving in the Middle East and Europe and we're being vague on purpose. Yes The work you do is Sort of undercover with that being accurate sort of Sincere senses Yeah, that's a better one. I wonder what the world wide web you got to be you got to be careful Don't scare the fish thing and evangelism. Yeah And the beautiful thing about you too is that you are our longest standing partners It you've been partners with arcade church for 35 36 years. Yeah, about that. Yeah, I came to know Jesus in 1977 and they sent me to Mexico. I was like two years old

2:14Seventy-year-old so I can actually say you've been behind me since I was a brand-new christmas. That is so That's obviously like As the leader of family ministries, I'm watching kids grow up and then get launched into things like Ministry and and serving around the world. It's just so cool to Look back kind of on this side of things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah knowing that your grandkids are are part of our church exactly Yeah, which is really great. That's very cool very cool So we want we just want to Introduce you to the behold podcast listeners. Let them know a little bit about the work you guys are doing um Just kind of hear what what life is like for you and then how we can support any of our Jews. That's so good That's great. So this is probably the hardest question you're gonna get asked because I'm sure every day looks different But what is a typical day in the life for the two of you? So I knew this was a hard question So I actually talked to a member of my organizational board this morning who hung out with me a long time

3:17Yeah in the middle east and he said Basically, I spent a lot of time talking to people and encouraging them hopefully talking to God first Yeah, connect and I think as I get older I need more that time and We're looking through just staying close to Jesus being open to what he wants us to do each day But communicating we have a small organization and I always feel like I'm leader of it, but we kind of pastor at Our members I talked to them Monthly and of course and depending on where we are in the Middle Eastern Europe We're working very much time zone So often here we're up early talking to somebody in Europe or millies and there we're You know our days and usually seven or eight least because stuff happening in America is nine hour time difference So and yeah, our goal is always to encourage and have meetings. I have Zoom meetings every week because I'm on a team that

4:24Develops curriculum Groups and Egypt and all over Some of the states and Yeah, so it's it's not defined all the time Yeah, so for me the typical day is Charles goes to the office which is great because he does his work there And I'm involved in a French church and the international church And I'm involved in a French home group and a women's Bible study and we have a lot of hospitality We have people into our home a lot Which is a huge part of our ministry so that on those days my days are preparing and getting ready for meals and stuff We love to have people in so well I've had the pleasure of seeing both of you in action Traveling abroad with you and stuff and seeing where you used to live and I tell you you're busy people We kind of we kind of really are is it's very much of a relational ministry I know you do some administrative stuff, but you're right you Charles you talk a lot You know Yeah, but I think it's certainly it's exciting to watch how you guys do ministry and how effective and fruitful it is

5:28and just from my perspective what's fun is Watching these two guys There's a friendship that you can tell just how you're teasing each other and And I'm sure if if something were to go sideways you would jump in to support one another Which is encouraging I think God has given us a lot of opportunities to be involved in the messy We're involved in a lot of messy situations and we don't mind that it's tiring sometimes But I think that God has given us giving us Gifting in that area just to deal with the really sticky situations and as you get older you kind of get more of them Because you hopefully have acquired some wisdom as you have green could you have more mess You know that Just we have a lot of Tricky relationships like you know with people who have come from other religions Sure that are following Jesus and just a lot of really Strange problems. We deal with sometimes. So yeah, well keeping with the mess. Yeah, a little bit You know a question that that Beth and I have is

6:31Regarding the Middle East You spent many decades in the Middle East Where do you see where do you see the Lord working right now and I mean it's it's see from our perspective sounds like it's a powder cake Yeah, yeah, and what's going on in our ran and elsewhere and things and so where do you see God moving in that in that area That's a big area the way actually You know this Craig, but I lived my father worked in Jerusalem George when I was a kid And it's the age of seven. I lived in what's Ramallah went to an Arab school and we fled because of the war So we actually experienced my father came back to california and we weren't like Palsy refugee, but my father was very sympathetic and my mother still is To that specific mess of what happened there Which has not gone away. No, I've gone away and my whole my my parents tend to be politically involved and as a pastor though we we have

7:34Been very involved because where we've lived has been a full of refugees always including in Europe. Yeah a lot of refugees and on my View and actually I'm here in Sacramento now. I I know a friend a neighbor who's a A rabbi and just the other day. I was talking to him and he said we got to take out a ran And I thought to myself. I thought to myself. That's not gonna solve anything More anymore than taking out a rack, but you know, I didn't have time Yeah, but I said shalom, you know And we always have a nice talk But but our hope is in Jesus. It always reminds me that that even if America goes a direction. We don't like We know God can work through his church and again a lot of our churches in them in the Middle East and even in France. They they're just small have to meet secretly And that's just the reality for Christianity since Christ

8:36died on the cross just to publish a group of followers. Well, what is your your assessment of The Middle East church right now? Is it thriving? Is it surviving? There's two aspects one is that the Christian's traditional Christians and we live in a country where we had Christians that go back to the day of Pentecost A lot of them are afraid because like after the Iraq war most all the Christians had to leave because Whatever America didn't bring security to Christians and the eventually They fell very insecure and they left and all throughout the Middle East the Lebanese Jordanians of Palestinians many are leaving. I have a good friend In who you met Romney who and Jerusalem and he sent you know recently saying, you know I raised my kids to speak Hebrew to be a part of Israel to be a part of Palestine Because I'm not sure we have a future here as a PhD from Hebrew University. So pray for him

9:38There's so much racism on towards even Arabs In Israel and they're 20% of Israel and pray for the church in Israel a messianic church I have had some working involvement with them and every young Israeli Has to serve in the army that means in Gaza there's 16 and 17 year old kids from churches We've had to serve in what's going to be Probably a Vietnam for them. Yeah, it'll be traumatized. It'll never end So I pray we pray for both sides and realize the war of war is you know like we you know great Vietnam a war Whatever it carries on. Yeah, what's happening with homeless people in Sacramento? So we can just pray and and that the church would be there Well, I'd love to know Since you can open the door already is your assessment of Of what's going on between Israel and Palestine Because you have you have a definite take I read your dissertation you're written on that and

10:41And what an interesting perspective having grown up there. Oh absolutely. Yeah, yeah That general vicinity. Yeah, absolutely And I mean say what you what you feel appropriate to say We've got a wide audience. We can handle disagreement. Yeah, maybe If there is disagreement, I just blame Beth. Yeah, so she's got One thing I think My heart looking at it is just the children that have seen things that children should never ever have to see Yeah, and they said the physical damages are one thing but the psychological damage for this generation of children that even survive on both sides Is just absolutely Soldiers, I mean, it's just it's just you know and even doctors that have come out of Gaza That are hardened doctors that have seen a lot. They're just devastated by what they're seeing I mean, it's just so so horrible Beverly's from Minnesota and I'll never forget a guy coming up who is very Partial towards Israel and saying To Bev whose side are you on in this thing the Arabs or the Jews and what did you say Bev?

11:45Projesus Such a good Projesus across the board you know what we are so projes and you know what we see God we worked with the refugees from Saddam Hussein from one America to control of Iraq. We dealt with so many refugees And we saw the horrors that they've been subjected to including from our own wars And and we just know that that God works through these tragedies and that's the only go So when you see a tragedy all of us and you're doing a good job to arcade I just talked some Afghans across street fixing their car and they But you just see these people have come out of something and the words brought them to be near me now that whether I'm in Europe or Middle East what are the words I can have or what can we do and I'm so encouraged what arcades been doing in Christian center here Amazing the sports ministries

12:50So that's the solution is these little micro efforts. Yeah, it's not there is no political solution It's getting worse To be honest They hate the racism on both sides I had a glass somewhere in the Middle East I had a A Arab taxi driver said you know what Israel is doing is worse than ISIS does I found that interesting that comparison. Yeah, you know, one was an Islamic state one's a Jewish state And then in their myopic, you know Blindness they they're people just do this. Well, it's a classic one man's terrorists is not a man's freedom fighter Right, you know, it just looks like you're looking. Yeah, yeah, and and we have and so my bad prayed for me was talking to him When God just gave you some words to challenge him and and this whatever situation But we don't want to be partisans and arcades not partisan And we you want to just be messengers and people to God brings next story

13:54So refreshing Hey, man, so last time we were in the Middle East we were there in April for a week and we wrote taxis everywhere And my role was to sit in the back of a seat and pray while Charles talked to these man And share Jesus over and over and over and the interesting thing was um many were angry They were so angry and so angry in America and Charles would work in round to say well, you have children You know, um, do you like your children watch the news and watch, you know, you don't see our news See all the dead bodies on TV and they're like well, yeah, and Charles said well, what is being a father supposed to be doing? You supposed to be protecting your children So are you protecting your children by letting them stand like watch TV? You know, and then it didn't got around to a parenting issue instead of you know a political And Jesus being the prince of peace. Yeah, that's quite a title for And that this world needs Living your enemy. No other religion has that right. My rabbi friend doesn't know about that And the mom doesn't know that

14:56So yeah, that's quite that's that's the message that only the Holy Spirit and Jesus can change our hearts Yeah, yeah, yeah, but pray for guys like Rami though. He's really You know So Charles specific question for you, and then we have one for you How is being a part of the church in the middle middle east changed your understanding Of the gospel I could let Craig answer He's heard my Speel as we say in Yiddish So you know, I came to the middle east You know working I had had some childhood experience I knew some herbic But I it took me two years to figure out that the church I was involved in was one tribe they were from one Large extended family and And I started to think through what that meant in the Bible because you know We don't come from California many of us

15:56We barely know where cousins, you know our neighbors are closer But there in those societies they operate like in the time of Jesus where your cousins determine everything your family determines who you're going to marry And they still operate very much like that and it really made me rethink the the gospel especially the church now I see the church more as a tribe connected by the blood of Jesus Committed to reaching out to other tribes of foreigners who can become connected by the blood of Jesus and every time we take communion We're proclaiming a big family wonderful family with Jesus as our chief That's that's the main that's well that's just if you're dissertation as well, right basically the tribes the gospel of the tribes You know is very interesting is really good. There's an interesting dissertation Yeah We went to the same school we were in the same murky world of

17:02One thing good about Charles tripe thing I had to edit the whole thing. It was so much work. Oh, yes long time ago But anyway, um, did you get your doctorate also? I have a putting heavy through for I think it's really good too because like when we have groups come to Country like in the Middle East and stuff we always talk about who is your tribe and Charles whole thing on tribe It has made us think of our own family and our own tribe like we can be Christian workers going to another country to save the world But what about our pagan relatives and you know Charles has got a lot Minnesota were pretty nice Minnesota Minnesota Baptist mafia But um, you know, it's just made us have more effort to think of our own family and care about their salvation where they are with the Lord too So give an example even here I grew up next to a big Mormon family and a neighbor of ours passed away The last month and so I contacted them they live up north now. They they've all moved away

18:06But I remember um, I have always had great opportunities one from that family I prayed with to receive the Lord at one time and so I was thinking how can we get up and Visit see that family because there's seven kids are father passed away As a friend of my dad's and and how but but it works like that the gospel, you know Through people we know and that's why thank god Craig. It's not reserved for pastors Right to do the work or You beth or Craig we actually you know, I know Fellow archadians we all come from a tribe with unique opportunities every Sunday come together, but be encouraged We each have a unique role role in that group of people maybe your neighbors So that that's yeah a lot of money how it how it changed My view of how we do ministry and it changed took me a while to see it applied back home here among my relatives and such Well, it's much easier to go talk to a stranger exactly then someone you have a relationship because you're risking the relationship

19:12Absolutely, yeah more stressful. Yep. Thanks for reading mine Tell us you have been involved as long as I think as long as I've known you In trafficking, right on the on the good side But and and I've seen that ministry as well, and you actually served a meal Yeah, yeah, it was a privilege to do that and tell us a little bit about that are you still involved with yes We're still very involved with that all right, and I was working in the Middle East for with that full-time for 10 years And since we were invited to leave Jordan and invited to France That ministry is continued And Chandler to the woman who works with it is still doing it and they're still having a safe house where women who are

20:13Getting away from abusive employers. They go to and they're still getting a meal every week And they're hitting the gospel every week. They're having an hour of praise and worship. Are they primarily Filipino? They're primary Filipinos. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Monkeys too But the women come and they're at such a vulnerable time At one point we had 500 women every week now. It's a lot less. It's less than a hundred right now But they get a chance to Rest have some food here the gospel get prayer and they're young They're like 18 to maybe 40 They're in there anywhere from four months to a year a year and a half sometimes and they come just broken They come literally with the clothes on their back. They're beaten. They're scared They're not trusting anyone and they get a place in in the um Embassy safe house to just rest and they're so open for the gospel It's just a minimal because they've lost everything. I just have some questions. So These are women who've probably been promised a great job What what happens in their home country? They're promised oh go to the holy lands It's where Jesus lived you can live in a past in a castle and work for a king this kind of thing

21:16But it's really a bait and switch because the recruiters in their home country are corrupt and the people to receive them on this end Our corrupt to an often like we had one woman and she was trying to escape and you know She called the police and the police said where are you and she said I don't even know in the police Okay, go outside and looked you see a market or anything by you often there They don't even know where they are So and a lot of them have children sometimes we have children in the safe house and those kids are so Well adjusted because a hundred women are passing them around They're the friendliest little kids you've ever seen. I mean, they're just great But um Yeah, so then when they leave the safe house It goes through legal process and they have to be processed through the embassy and there's lawyers have worked with us Human rights lawyers and trafficking lawyers and stuff and then they go back to their home country and we connect them with a pastor To receive them and then follow their story So I get messages every once in a while from women who have gone back to the Philippines and if their passports are taken in their salaries Held we fight for them to get their salary one time one of the embassies

22:18A lady wanted a woman to keep working for and she said no because she hadn't paid her so the embassy I didn't approve of live But the embassy lied and said that this lady will come back and work for you if you give us her salary So she got her salary and she was on the next plane out and she went back to the Philippines and she started a little tailoring business And it's just I mean, it's wonderful. What happens to these women on the other hand especially because A good majority of them find Jesus in the safe house and A lot of them are from Catholic backgrounds, but other ones are from other religions And to have the chance to share with them every week is just incredible less than when we were there in April Charles shared with the whole group and and then we provide personal care products for them They all get Christmas presents and this ministry also works with the prison ministry in Jordan to and all the prisoners in Jordan got Christmas presents this year too And we raise funds for this Well, it wouldn't Dan Bryant and I were there We served that one night and the thing that both of us

23:19We're blown away by it was the joy of the women. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just A breath of fresh air. I mean they were they were at peace. They were joyful that and they felt protected right And it was just I mean total language barrier right, but it didn't matter I mean because joy you would have gone crazy They're just lovely lovely. We were they're just a sweetest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah very much so yeah That's good. One time Charles sent to me. Oh, it's really good. You work with this These women because you know, we have three boys and a girl and he said oh because you miss the boys and you miss our daughter La Nia especially same as your guy. Yeah, and um, I said yeah, but she's just one one girl This is 500 women and they're such a mess. I mean, it's just so yeah, so so many needs there And we we aren't there, but there's quite a team and we try we're gonna try and get back To that country and in April go ahead and spend some time And it's amazing we have this is not a lone ranger thing. We facilitate a local ministry

24:21Local Arabs and that affects the church when they see the people that are sometimes they're maids Being coming to Jesus and things so and then in a majority non-Christian environment We have these incredible testimonies and like the government's not going to interfere because they see something Sometimes the person involved in the prison says that you know, they were helping the ministry is just helping Christians and they said please can't you help us? It's technically illegal Can you bring gifts the last Christmas? It gives us some good donations. We were able to get gifts to Almost all the prisoners in all the women in this and save us in Jordan That's great. Yeah. Yeah, so it's really good So we're something for the food we've been able to raise funds to keep the ministry going at full force And pay you know chan because rent and her salary and provide food every week and now since COVID has switched a little bit They're in a new location, but now we can't Cook food and bring it to them, but now they're provided dry food so they cook for themselves all week

25:25Which is great because they get better food. Yeah, I mean more food And then they cook it the way they like it. Yeah, you know, it just gives them something to do all week cooking and stuff too So yeah, but it's my favorite favorite ministry. I just love What time is it bath? You're getting better Not bad All right, well, it's your turn to see what's inside. So here you go I'm a little nervous. I'm always nervous. Of course, when Ruth is in the room. It's probably not as bad Yeah, she sets us up. Yeah, yeah What What character from the Bible do you relate to the most and why? Oh wow I really wish I could say Jesus Me too The person I can relate to the most you want to go for you know Not JL Just do you mean the guy that was a joke? Yeah, I mean of all okay, well time

26:32I'm gonna say Peter because okay, I I love Peter and I want to ring his neck and I feel like sometimes I want to ring my own neck because I do stupid things But by the grace of God he has Saved me from myself and through the power of the Holy Spirit um Made me into someone who wants to love and searches. Yeah Well, that's good. Thank you It's on ironic that you chose a man, right because I chose a woman. Oh Which is I don't know why I need to talk about the side. There's probably something wrong with me No It's okay to aspire. I chose Mary the sister of Martha. Oh Because in that episode the gospel of John she is sitting at Jesus feet and what I see what I see in that picture of her is Nothing but curiosity. Who is this person? She knew him But I feel like I have that same kind of curiosity. You do. Yeah, you want to know him better. I do

27:36I just want to know him better and so it's sort of you chose it a dude And I chose a woman cool. Yeah, it is. It's kind of cool. Well there you go grab back Good grab back ruse Okay, I'm off the script question. Okay. Yeah, go for it. Watch out Hearing you guys talk and and I think you even referenced the the messiness of it I can sense the the weight of the work you guys do. Yeah. How do you Find rest? How do you stay refreshed? How do you find renewal in the midst The weight and the messy and all of that We come home to the states eventually too. Do things like this and see our grandkids and We just pray together every morning pray together every night. We do a lot of praying You know, I don't drive sometimes I went to Jesuit high school. I don't want to sound Catholic

28:37But I really you've been to Jerusalem And you go to the stations of the cross And I think as American Christians Evangelical some of the stations aren't biblical But Jesus suffered and he died and he honored women which is so much even a part of the station across So I actually I like to personally Go to I sometimes Catholic retreat centers. Yeah, go The others one in the Bay Area Well, they're designed for soul care. Yeah, and I don't want to as a Jesuit grad I know this is controversial But um, I think it's very important to To remind ourselves that this is what we have we know Jesus in the midst of suffering Has a power to deliver people The to the other side of suffering to resurrection So and I think that's something we've learned too is you know

29:37Secular we've seen work with secular relief and development type workers. They tank often Because now or burn out. Yeah, and and it's just Because they don't have this Picture that we look at every time you look at just no foundation for no And and the suffering and we we sent the guy our organization to Lesbos when a lot of refugees. Yeah, we're crossing little boats And he this is a young man. He had some visa problems in Israel and came over and we've had some We're provided some funds. We sent him. He spoke arabic arabic well And uh, he he said Charles I spent all my time just ministering the aid workers so they were finding bodies on the shore All the body was on the shore. They were cracking No, but he was and there was nobody for that to help them but he prayed with all of them. Yeah, let a bunch of work I mean mine just can't handle all that Jesus Yeah, and I think you hear to you know, you look in the Middle East situation just and we just have to know out of this mess

30:39The Christ will be proclaimed and again our job is to to make sure Christ is proclaimed in at least times and And I you know look around we were in church Sunday. There was someone Near us that we ended up praying for and are that prayer time who was Probably facing some serious immigration challenges And we could pray for them. So I mean this is the last Sunday last Sunday was so great. Yeah, okay Okay, so turn around and pray for somebody in this couple Yeah, we don't need to see much, but they were clinging to each other and when we prayed for him Cheers just totally We go all around us You know, there's lots of and I think I think to us having lived our whole adult life in a foreign country and having to stay legal and all that There's a real stress if you're not legal. Yeah, and for people in America who are not legal That's an incredible amount of stress. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, it's just the way that that's being dealt with Right is is not pro Jesus right to you right? Yeah, yeah at every country

31:44You know has its rules and we've been subject to them and but we are Americans Which has been as a privilege yeah, even when we've had trouble with different governments We know that if without American pastoral we're like Paul. We have a privilege. Yeah, it's right in much the world Not everywhere What do you see as Obstacles or challenges that you're facing currently in ministries that you're involved with You know, we're in Europe now Yeah, it's a whole new set of challenges Often when people come to Jesus they don't have quite the financial challenges Especially women Sometimes they end up divorced and stuff Preferably they all work In Europe they're often there's a better social welfare system But yeah, marriages are really challenged so we can pray Um Large portion of the people we work with have come from the background

32:46They're divorced women are around yeah, and and actually the last time we were in Jordan to the Jordan pass We work closely with Charles. It's really a struggle. We're just seeing more more divorces And um, and of course, yeah, pray for us who card our marriages But that that's a real struggle And I it's kind of our western values are even affecting Islam in some parts of the most world It wasn't that common to have to or even though technically they can do it financially they couldn't right I think a lot of like our people who have found Christ from a majority Middle Eastern religion They have so many problems and so many family problems and just layer upon layer upon layer of mess You know, so And one can I share a good news actually my tribe stuff In the last month we've gotten it into this curriculum that's all online Which is really to help the local communities which often don't have a church building

33:53To to look at The issues and learn the Bible and learn how this fits with their own tribal It's like a new believers or a prebeliever It's for people from majority backgrounds in the Middle East who find Jesus who want to lead churches. Okay. Oh wow Very specific. Yeah, very specific. It goes from basic all the way through the trousers worked with His latest one was on tribes. Would he work heavily with the one on persecution? So yeah, yeah, and it's it's a discipleship system. It's been going on for probably 50 years And his tribes was just yeah, if you want some really good news this uh, and it's You know, nor there in Africa was a hundred percent Muslim Now there's a movement in Algeria and I think I can say it's publicly. It's well known of over two 200,000 people have come to Jesus wow actually curriculum We work with originally started as a response to radio broadcast. Yeah, that old Christian workers Had gotten everything into their language, which is an Arabic it was another language and a lot of the believers

34:58We see in Europe are from that background and they they've really embraced the gospel Been discipled in small groups During COVID the government banned all their church meanings from having buildings because they'd started to build buildings for all these The villages where they live So the good news is God's got these groups out there that are taking He's always had stuff. Yeah, yeah without the building without And he's building him and so we've we have a commit curriculum that's actually expanded vassay work with a team There's 12 on the team 12 and we do zoom Not zoom now just the other one We're always connecting and and refining the curriculum and it's actually got a whole Program for illiterate people It's called a rality would focus on women Memorizing Bible stories in a discipleship curriculum. Yeah, wow, but it's in it's in six or seven languages now in the one that's

35:59Donald of the most right now is in spanish interesting believe it or not. Yeah, it wasn't supposed to be that way. Yeah, good Well, it's interesting because it's about a year ago you and I were involved with a ministry in Mexico That has a ministry in Egypt. Okay, and we taught yeah some Bible classes That were translated into Spanish then into Egyptian Or in Arabic to Somali It is it's just you know Thank you God for technology and how's being used. Yeah, it's something it's the same thing is happening The world is big and yeah, and the internet is great because it's out there And we hear of it being used ways it was never intended to be used And that's actually what happened in Mexico because the friend of ours actually Mexican Worker And we needed a translator we connected The program with her she started translating she said this stuff works great. I'm working Cycling a cousin to the other side of Mexico using the curriculum

36:59And then whatever I don't know what she did, but now it's the most downloaded country You can see what country download stuff Mexico Yemen all the hardest place. There's no internet in Gaza, but I can guarantee they're getting it Yeah, because we're what where the world falls apart. There's a hunger. Yeah And the gospel thrives off and amazing. Yeah So how can we support you and how can we be praying for you? Well, we just love arcade. It's just a fabulous church and you guys are great. So thank you Thank you. Thank you. Come back and we had Tom and Shana visit us in France and that was super fun And we love and you guys and visit us overseas too. So that's encouraging Just keep praying for us pray for us to have more and more opportunities to share the gospel Charles the street evangelism and be be a great church like you are our grandkids will be missionaries something There you go. Hey, that's great because you're faithfulist. She gets in first. There you go

38:00I think you're working with kids. It's just it's just so worth it to serve Jesus It is and I mean if I had to do my whole life over again I do it exactly the same way. It's so much fun. That's beautiful So I mean, it's I think we need to hear that. That's a little kids need to know that it's so worth it Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, I tell if I have a chance to speak to teens. I want to that's what I want to tell them. Yeah Following Jesus is yeah, it's hard, but it's worth it Sometimes we feel like you know, I remember when our daughter came back to America. She's like mom I'm gonna be so bored in America. I'm like honey. I was raised in America. It's okay But I think their life in being raised in the Middle East is kind of been a technicolour and then you know You come back to America. She feels it's just kind of a little slow Yeah, so but I think that's one thing we've experienced is um Just the Lord's faithfulness to our family and our kids and you know living this crazy life has been Very interestingly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and our Kate has always been Say I as an old arcade or before you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and faithful at following God's direction as a church

39:00You know, I looked at our service Sunday. That's not done in average mega church. You just pray for each other But that's something an ethos that God created through you former pastors And that we want to pray and so keep keep you know, we need to keep following Jesus in it and sensitive to him and not some Megaturch format as you know Yeah, we're gonna have allergic to make a church Need to be that. Yeah, hey before we pray. I was gonna say oh you want to do be holding them pray. Yeah, all right, yeah Um As as I don't know if we talk to you about it, but it's behold podcast and the reason why we call it behold is simply because we want to end each podcast Episode with beholden Christ and a beat of Christ and so we're kind of talking with Charles before you got here and We we talked about a couple of times. In fact, you did about the messiness of ministry and how it's just

40:02Sometimes all you see is the mess and things and one of the places that that Charles Recommended we go to is is acts 14 and I won't read the whole thing, but it's you know, Paul and Barnett are an iconium And it does not go well. I mean they're getting beaten with rods There's all kinds of misunderstanding the then religious authorities are trying to conspire to Kick Paul and Barnett us out and then later on Paul and Barnett are accused of being gods You know, and it's just it is just a mess and I mean Beth, I mean that's ministry I mean, it's ministry Where you're at and if it's in Europe or if it's in the Middle East it's it's messy and Sacramento and yet What you said earlier on in the podcast show is Pro Jesus Jesus is the only answer to clean up the messes that we create

41:03And you guys are living breathing testimonies at your testimony to begin with but then also I think that I'd like to think and I think it's true that When you get to heaven There's gonna be people that you never met here That are there because of How faithful you to have been over the decades to be pro Jesus When you could have gone you could have gone veered off to political aspirations You could have veered off for doctrinal aspirations But you chose to stay the course and be close to Jesus and I think that That's what we try to model here of course for all of us all of us want to sing. Yeah, so we just really appreciate Everything you guys too. Well, it's it's been a lot of fun Yeah Debbie's everywhere. It's an honor and people call me Debbie Oh

42:03I try to be Debbie as many ways as possible But I just know it is it is always an honor when Our partners around the world are here And then to get a chance to sit down and chat with you guys any and hear your hearts and see your passion for Jesus and for the people that He's really interested to hear It's it's inspiring to me now, but also in thinking about eight-year-old Matthew thought she was gonna be a missionary Well, I was gonna say this is this is very personal for you. Yeah, every time we have someone a partner in ministry here Is you really I mean it are just so edified and so motivated to continue in ministry because you you do have that partnership heart that We all need to have I just I want to I Okay, how else can I dance the gospel? Yeah, through the people interested to my care teaching children is so important

43:06I yes, I agree I can't I'm not gonna be like no Yeah, let's get a heart for Jesus from my age because I was involved up in Minnesota and girls missionary guild You know, I was the overachiever with my sister. We had all the verses done up to age 15 at age like town Yes, you know, so but I just think back to all those people in my life that encouraged me Well, and I can tell you your grandkids are in safe hands in the children's ministry here I mean because the dogs that goes out aggressively. Yeah, every time you're with them. Yeah, so yeah Yeah, we don't look thank you for taking care of our grandkids. Well, we're on the other side of the world. It's an honor It's an honor. What should we do for them? Yeah, yeah, okay Oh, Lord Jesus our good and faithful savior Here in Sacramento and around the world What a joy it is to hear how you have equipped Charles and Beverly to serve you and to honor you with their whole entire lives Thank you for

44:06The fruit that they get to see from their work. I know a lot of people don't get to see fruit, but um Hearing about people in taxis and traffic to women being drawn out of Terrible situations and and then hearing your gospel What a powerful thing that is and And Charles and Beverly might roll their eyes that well, we're just doing what What we're called to do and yes, they are just doing what they're called to do But wow, thank you for giving them the courage to say yes and to keep Putting one foot in front of the other and to cry out to you morning and night and and to know that Being pro Jesus is what you've called them to do so Lord would you protect them would you Give them a sweet joy in their marriage would you give them more and abundant fruit through the ministry and the work of their hands give them strength Give them peace and allow them to be a presence of your peace as well

45:13Father What a gift that you have given the behold podcast family um I thank you so much for the friendship the faithful friendship of Charles and Bev and What they have meant to so many here, but then also to us and so we thank you for them and Lord We are asking in Jesus name by the powder spirit That every conversation they have is a kingdom seed planted that will That will germinate and grow and We're not we're not asking you to do it in front of us, but if you do that be great I do ask that you encourage Charles and Bev with fruitful ministry with their teams both in the Middle East and in Europe I pray Lord God that you preserve their marriage and make it ever stronger as the years go by Father while there you are away I pray that you keep their children their grandchildren safe in that their children can grow to be Men and women of robust faith in Jesus in Jesus one

46:14Father we You've you've planted us in this messy world you've planted Charles and Beverly in messy places in the world And you've called them to bring a story that brings order and humility and beauty So I pray Lord God that that story be heard over and over again of King Jesus who has died and has risen and has promised return Would you please cause that message or resonate Across cultures both far and here in Jesus name amen Thank you guys You