Robert Morrow on Roger Stone

0:00Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing. Another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with Chamba. Jump in at ChambaCasino.com. Let's Chamba. No purchase necessary, BTW Group. Boy, we're prohibited by law. CCNC, 21 Plus, sponsored by ChambaCasino. It's the Opperman Report. Join Digital Forensic Investigator and PI at Opperman for an in-depth discussion of conspiracy theories, strategy of new world order resistance. I profile court cases in the news and interviews with expert guests and authors on these topics and more. It's the Opperman Report. And now, here is Investigator at Opperman. OK, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, Prime Investigator Ed Opperman. It shows brought to you by cartking.com, 877-9867-771.

1:04Have you ever thought about going into the cart or kiosk business? Perhaps the current business you have right now wants to add additional point of sale locations across the country quickly. Maybe the facility you managed could kickstart revenue by adding coffee, food, or retail services. cartking.com can be the answer to your needs. cartking.com is a North American designer and manufacturer. The finest mobile retail, coffee, food, carts, and kiosks that money can buy. For 20 years, cartking.com has been working with clients and corporations across America to provide indoor and outdoor carts and kiosks for any application. So what you do is you go to the website cart-king.com. You pick out which cart or kiosks you think it applies to your business. You give them a call at 877-9867-771. They'll custom design it for you. They'll custom build it for you. And then they'll ship it worldwide. cartking.com. OK. We've got a good show for you here today. We're going to be talking about DB Cooper. The book is called Getting the Truth, IMDB Cooper. The website is called realdbcooper.com.

2:05And our guest is Joe Cainig. He's a private investigator, a former police investigator, worked on the Jimmy Hoffa case. I think he was in charge of the Jimmy Hoffa case. And he's a forensic linguist. Forensic linguist, it's called. Joe Cainig, how are you? I'm fine, Ed. I'm good. Tell us about yourself. Who is Joe Cainig? Well, I'm retired from the Michigan State Police 26 years. I was with the Michigan State Police. Most of that in investigations. I retired in 1993. One of my cases was the James Hoffa case. And I was lead investigator for the State Police on that. And also on several other notable homicide cases. I'm a certified forensic linguist. I'm also retired from the private sector. I retired from Hartford Financial. Also doing investigations for them.

3:07And I began my private investigative career in 2005, here in the West Side of Michigan, starting up KMI investigations. And I focus on financial fraud and forensic linguistics. And I've also written a couple books. We've got to have you come back sometime to talk about the forensic linguistics and also the Jimmy Hoffa case. But yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, definitely. What got you on the trail of a DB Cooper? Well, I wrote a book called Getting the Truth. That was my first book published in 2014. In early 2016, my publisher, Principia Media Vern Jones, who owns that, got a call from one of his editors who said, hey, I may have a lead on DB Cooper. And so he explored that, looked into it,

4:09interviewed the source, and discovered that there may well be something to this. And it wasn't long after he started. He realized there was a large amount of evidence and a lot of investigative work to be done. And he called on me to a system. In about mid 2016, I started on this. Give us a minute. Why don't you give us the story of who was, for me, a lot of young listeners, you know, a lot of kids out there. Yeah. Who was DB Cooper? I grew up knowing about DB Cooper, but the average kid may not. Yeah, let me read just a short passage from my book, which is Getting the Truth, I Am DB Cooper. It's considered one of America's most notorious unsolved mysteries. On the night of November 24, 1971, a man named DB Cooper,

5:11hijacked Northwest Airlines Flight 305, bound for Seattle from Portland. In exchange for the 36 passengers, he received $200,000 and used $20 bills and four parachutes. He ordered the plane to take off from C-TAC, Seattle Airport, strapped the 200,000 and cash to his body, and parachuted out the rear of that plane to the dark, cold Washington State sky, never to be seen or heard from until now. So that's just kind of a very brief outline of what this case is all about. It's considered one of America's three most notorious unsolved mysteries. Yeah, so basically this guy, he gets on the plane like a regular passenger. He hands a note to the stewardess, and then he demands a parachute, four parachutes, actually. And $200,000 cash, and then he jumps out of the plane. And no one ever sees him again.

6:12There you go. And nobody was hurt. So it's taken on a Robin Hood-type quality, you know? Yeah, right. They made a couple of movies about it. You see it all the time on unsolved mysteries, that kind of thing. Yeah, DB Cooper. Let me ask you a question, but now your suspect, in this case, Walter Recker, did he live in Seattle? Was he connected to Seattle? Well, he lived in, he grew up in Michigan. He was, how about if I give you a little background on Walter? Yeah, do that. He was born in 1933. He joined the US Army at some point. His dad died when he was about seven years old. His dad was electrocuted in Frank and Mooth, Michigan. And he grew up without a dad in the Detroit area. And he had a rough childhood. But he joined the service. He received an honorable discharge from the US Army.

7:14He was a paratrooper in the US Army. He became a barber after that. And then in 1957, he heard about a skydiving, actually called it the Michigan Parachute Team in Saginon, Michigan in 1957. There was an airport out there called the HW Brown Airport in the Saginon area that allowed parachutists to jump. A lot of airports wouldn't do that in those days. And there was a group of guys, former paratroopers, most of them, who just loved to jump. And they would go up in that plane or the planes that they used frequently. And they did a lot of jumps. They did some performances in air shows. For example, a rotary club in Carroll in 1958 had a wall jumping out of a plane dressed as a Santa Claus

8:20to help them raise some money in a charity. He then moved, actually, in 1961, then he enlisted in the US Air Force Reserve and became a member of the Para Rescue Air Rescue Squad at Selfridge Air Force Base here in Michigan. So he became a Rescue and Survival Specialist, which we're told is a pretty hefty achievement that it's a very, very difficult school to go through and survive, because they jump into freezing waters and all kinds of elements that many parachutists would avoid. Anyway, he went from that. He retired then from the Air Force Reserve. He did some petty crimes, not so petty crimes.

9:23He was arrested for an armed robbery and detroit, which coincidentally, before he left, he gave the manager some cash from his proceeds, because she was very nice. And then he was arrested as he walked to the getaway car. So he was arrested. And then he eventually jumped bail from that. And when he jumped bail, he moved to Washington. So that's what took him out into the far out West. And he got a job with the teamsters and eventually did some welding at the Cooley Dam. And it was during that period where he became kind of destitute. His poor didn't have much money. And he came up with this scheme to hijack an airplane

10:24and parachute out of it. Now, I know that a part of your work here with this book, Getting the Truth, IMDB Cooper and the website, willdbcooper.com. You also did a documentary film. Yeah, I didn't. Principi did, yes. Right. And some people came out like his niece and his best friends. Did he tell people about this? Is that how they know about this? Well, he didn't tell anybody about it. Until when Carl, when he met Carl and became close friends with a fellow by name of Carl Lauren who wrote a book called The RealDB Cooper, which is available on Amazon, Carl became kind of his best friend. Carl was kind of the leader of that paratroop team in Saginaw, well-respected, a good writer.

11:26And when this hijack, skyjacking occurred in November of 71, Carl immediately thought that was Walt who did it. But at the time, Walt wasn't. He didn't know where Walt was. He lost contact with him. And they had this paratroop team had began having get-togethers up in the Escota area in Michigan. And it was then in later years in the 70s where Carl began to ask in prying ways if Walter would admit that he was DB Cooper. And Walter resisted, resisted. And finally, he conceded that he was.

12:28And then Carl eventually, over several years, 10, 12, 15 years was talking to Walter about this. And in 2008, he finally got Walt to agree to recording conversations about this skyjacking. So they did it by phone. Carl is not a techie at all. He has no email. Has no idea what a computer will do, probably. So he had difficulties recording this. So some of the recordings you'll hear in that documentary were a little difficult to understand sometimes. But certainly good enough. So over the period of time, from 2008 to early 2009, over about three or four months, Carl recorded a series of conversations with Walt

13:31wherein Walt confessed to the DB Cooper skyjacking. And then that was part of the evidence that Principia got from Carl Lauren, who lives down in Florida, and kind of is the star of this whole thing. He did a marvelous job collecting evidence. After Walt confessed to Carl, Walt sent Carl through the mail all kinds of things. Things related to and many, many things not related to the DB Cooper case. Identifications, phone books, diaries, reports, equipment, and various things that he used, like the leggings he used, that he wore during the skyjacking, he sent to Carl. He said, these are the leggings I wore. So Carl accumulated all his evidence

14:33and then eventually after the agreement with Walt was that Carl would not use this information until after Walt died. Well, Walt died in 2014. And then Carl went on trying to get this story told. And eventually came to us, Principia Media. We took it, analyzed it, processed it. We really gave it a close look in every which way. And I conclude that Walter is DB Cooper. Then let me ask you a couple obvious questions. Walter Recker, he comes off as a guy who's doing stick ups, like an adventurous kind of guy. Was he also the type of guy who would pull a hoax? Was he a hoax or a prankster type of guy? No. Walt spoke Polish and Ukraine.

15:35And probably some Russian. He was a bright guy. Even though on the tapes, he sounds fairly crude. And he was crude. But he could also be very sophisticated. Some of the writings that he sent to Carl are kind of unbelievable. I mean, it's very philosophical and he uses vocabulary that you'd never think would be attributed to Walter. But no, he was pretty serious about that stuff. And how about Walter? Walter, what's his background? You mean Carl? I'm sorry, yeah, Carl. Because he has a buddy who's a stick up guy. I mean, what's his background? I know, I know. Carl is a commercial pilot. OK. He owns and operates businesses, a very successful guy. He's written, he tried to write this book, but never completed it.

16:38And he wrote other stories. But Carl is really a fantastic individual. Wonderful gentleman. One of the reasons Walt confessed to Carl is because he couldn't lie to Carl. Because they had such a wonderful relationship. And he just felt guilty about stringing Carl along and eventually said, OK, I am DB Cooper. And you've met Carl in person? I have. I did several interviews on this case. I flew to Florida twice to interview Carl, his wife, and attorney Carl used. And I also interviewed, see, in this case, there's some real good, corroborative evidence. In addition to the very close similarities

17:39between how Walter describes the skyjacking and went down his conversations with the airline crew. And the evidence that he saw and left, he also gave us details about where he landed, who he saw when he landed. Where they saw him, where his discussions he had, his activities right after he landed. And then also what he used his money for. He bought a house, for example, in Spokane. Within a year of the skyjacking. And he bought a house from a guy we tracked it down. We found the guy he bought the house from. And the guy confirmed every detail Walt gave us. This guy accepted only cash. He said, as a matter of fact, if somebody gave me a check, I would force him to go to the bank, cash it, and bring cash back to me. So the fact that Walt bought this house with cash

18:41was not unusual. Now when Walt landed, he landed. No, no, wait, wait, he bought a house with 200,000 cash? No, no, not 200,000. OK. I forget what the value of the home was. But he bought it on land contract. So it didn't have to be recorded anywhere, as a mortgage or anything like that. It was a land contract, and he paid the guy cash for it. Any indication that Walter had help in his planning and pulling this job off? There is some discussion about, and I was about to tell you, where Walt landed. He landed in a place near Clellum, Washington. And as he was almost landed, he was looking out, and he saw some cars in the distance. Remember, it was late at night. He jumped about 8 p.m. in that area, between 8 and 9 p.m.

19:46It was rainy, cold, windy, nasty, well, Washington night in November. And when he landed, just before he landed, he saw some lights in the distance. When he landed, he hit a dead tree, broke his leg. Got out of the tree, took his parachute off, covered it with branches. Didn't bury it, just covered it in this field. And then took his raincoat off, put all the cash in the raincoat where it was when he parachuted. But then he made sure it was wrapped up in his raincoat. And then he put the raincoat under his arm and started walking toward those lights. Now, Karl located this witness five years after Walt told him this. Walt, Karl, along with his son,

20:46who's also in the airline industry, figured out where Walter probably landed based upon some of the geographical information and highway information Walt provided him in his confession. So they figured out it was in this Clellum Washington area. And so Walt landed, and he's walking down this road toward what appears to be a restaurant or cafe. When he gets in the cafe, he sees a guy sitting there who's got a guitar and is dressed like a cowboy, cowboy boots, and a cowboy hat. He sits down and orders a coffee. And then he asks the cowboy, if I call someone, will you give them directions how to get here? So Walt went up to the dial, a phone booth that was at this restaurant.

21:47Now we know there's the Tiennaway Cafe, burned down and was replaced by a fire station. So by the time Karl gets out there in 2012, 2013, a fire station is there, no Tiennaway Cafe. But everybody there remembers the Tiennaway Cafe. Anyway, so Karl calls this guy, excuse me, Walt calls a guy on the phone. He told Karl the guy's name was Don Brennan. And he hands the phone to the cowboy, and the cowboy gives the guy directions. And then asking, he says, where are you coming from? Well, I'm coming from the Seattle area. Well, you should come down blue at pass. And so he gives Don directions. And then he goes on, and he had just stopped there

22:48for cowboy, had just stopped there for coffee, because he had a concert later that night at 9 p.m. at the Grange Hall in Clellum there. So he leaves, goes on his way, and then Don eventually picks up Walt. Walt gives Don several thousand dollars for having picked him up, and takes him home, takes Walter home to Walt's home in Hartland. See Walt, it drove. Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing. Victory Lane? Yeah, it's even better with Chamba by my side. Race to ChambaCasino.com. Let's Chamba. No purchase necessary, VTW Group. Boy, we're prohibited by law. CTNCs, 21 plus, sponsored by ChambaCasino. From Hartland from his home to, I'm trying to think of it. It was Portland, right? Portland, Oregon is somewhere he flew out over it.

23:49No, no, he didn't drive to Portland. He went to Spokane. He parked there at a bus parking lot, parked his car, because he said, if I left a car in Portland, it might become suspicious, and they might relate it to the skyjacking. So he drove to Spokane, and then took a bus to Portland. And then, stayed overnight at a restaurant bar motel that we're pretty sure we know which one it was. And the next day, he goes to the airport and puts super glue on his fingers to avoid leaving any fingerprints and commits the skyjacking. Real quick, before we take a break, that area in Washington State is so,

24:49especially back then, I can imagine, so woods and lakes and stuff and rivers and streams. How did he know if he's jumping out in the dark, how does he know he's not going to jump out and land in some lake? He didn't. Just didn't care. There you go. His niece, if you're watching the documentary, his niece, Lisa's story, asked him, Uncle Wald, why did you do this? And he told her, I'd rather be dead than the poor. Yeah, nothing to lose. He was desperate. He really was desperate. And there was no jump out there to him. Don Brennan, we have a track in there? Don Brennan has died. But he's a real person. We know he's real. Yep. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Let's take a commercial break. We're here with Joe Canig, former police detective, forensic, linguistic, private investigator. I keep an eye out for PI Magazine.

25:50He has an article coming out in the next couple of months. And also, too, hopefully we're going to get him down in a crime con in New Orleans, June 7th to the 9th. Be the keynote speaker we're hoping for. We're hoping we get a gig down there. But until then, check out PI Magazine. The book is called Getting the Truth IMDB Cooper. And there's a website called realdbcooper.com. We're going to be right back with more of Joe Canig right after these messages. And now a word from our sponsors. Check out cartking.com 877-986-7771. Have you ever thought about opening your own mobile cart or kiosk business? Perhaps your current business wants to add multiple point of sale locations across the country quickly. Maybe the facility you manage could kick start revenue by adding coffee, food, or retail services. Like, let's say you own an office building or a warehouse. Put one of these carts there in the lobby. Well, cartking.com can be the answer to your needs. Cartking.com is a North American designer and manufacturer of the finest mobile retail, coffee,

26:52and food carts and kiosks money can buy. For 20 years, cartking.com has been working with clients and corporations across America to provide indoor and outdoor carts and kiosks for any application. From large, heated and secure outdoor retail or food casks to smaller, more mobile coffee kiosks or coffee stations, coffee carts. Cartking.com designs and builds them all. Carts and kiosks are fun. And so are the dozens of designs on the website, cartking.com. Please visit today at cartking.com or just call them at 877-986-7771. Tell them at Opera Man's Center and you get a good deal. Remember, all these shows on a wake are brought to you by email-revealer.com. You can go to email-revealer.com and get a copy of my book how to become a successful private investigator. You also do a lot of different services for you online and dating service investigations called an online infidelity investigation. And that's where you give us your husband or your boyfriend or girlfriend's email address and we trace it back to their online dating websites

27:53and we return a list of all the dating sites that that email is registered to. We can expand our night investigation and trace it back to porn sites, escort service sites, swinger sites, gambling websites and even prescription drug websites and all kinds of digital forensics, computer and cell phone digital forensics where we can recover deleted content from an email or a hard drive and produce a report for you that you can use in court. That's email-revealer.com or you can contact me at operamaninvestigations at gmail.com. The operaman report is brought to you by subashtechnosis.com. Subash Technosis is a search engine optimization and website design company. They're located in India. So you're not even gonna save a lot of money and get top quality service. They offer all sorts of business process outsourcing, data entry, banking BPO services, recruitment process outsourcing, software testing, offshoring research network, customer care, press release content writing and distribution

28:53and much, much more. Now you can get a hold of subashtechnosis by email at infoatsubashtechnosis.com. Their website is www.subashtechnosis.com and their Skype is A-N-U-S-H-A-S-U-B-A-S-H. Okay, welcome back to the operaman report. We're here today with the forensic linguist, private investigator, retired police detective, Joe Canig, the book is called Getting the Truth, IMDB Cooper. You can check out the website, realdbcooper.com and keep an eye for PI Magazine because Joe Canig has an article coming out there about this topic, about DB Cooper. Hey, Joe, real quick, back to Don Brennan. Was Don Brennan, was he expecting a phone call from Walter? Well, that's what triggered that. When you said, did he plan this with anybody?

29:55There's some indication in Walt's confession that would lead me to believe that there was some prior discussions with Don that he knew that when he flew out of Seattle, he would jump fairly quickly, apparently. And then he knew Don lived in the Seattle area and he would have Don pick him up. But he, Don didn't know when or how or where, probably, Walt was gonna do this, but Walt went ahead and did it. And then he was, you know, he's within an hour, hour, two hours of Seattle and he called up Brennan. And said, they, I did it, you know, something to that effect. Just imagine hiking through those woods, you know, in the dark, no trails, you know, no proper gear, you know, no water, no, no.

30:55Well, I didn't get a chance to tell you that Carl located this cowboy. And so Carl, five years after the fact, he goes, he flies into this Clellum area and of course, he finds the fire station and across the street is an older auto repair shop that he goes into and says, hey, do you remember the Tianaway Cafe? Sure, sure, sure, they'll, they remember it. And he says, by any chance, do you know, because Walt had said in his confession that this cowboy drove a dump truck. So Carl asked this guy, by any chance, back in the early 70s, do you remember a guy who used to dress like a cowboy and drove a dump truck? And he said, no, I don't know, but he said, we have a town historian.

31:57Why don't you go see that guy? And so Carl does, and the guy gives him the same story but he says, hey, I'll have, I'll ask my son about this, he's more likely to know. So Carl leaves his name and phone number with this town historian, and he then flies back to Florida. A week later, Carl receives a phone call, and the guy says, I hear you're looking for me. And it's cowboy. So Carl asked him a couple of things, well, this goes back to 1971, you're in the Tianaway Cafe, and do you remember a guy walking in into the cafe that night? Yeah, I do. And this guy, it turns out, cowboy is a former police officer.

32:59He's a highly respected guy in the community there. He was named King Cole in 2017, which is a high honor in that area for a guy who used to work in the coal mines. And he's lived in that area for a long, long time, well-respected man. And he remembers in detail that meeting. He remembers the guy was wearing panty loafers because he always wanted panty loafers himself. He said it was strange because as he was driving to the cafe in his dump truck, he saw the guy walking along the road in the rain carrying his rain coat under his arm. And then he couldn't pick him up because his company wouldn't allow him to. And he went on to the cafe there for a coffee before he was to perform at the Grange Hall at night, o'clock, that night.

33:59So he's in there having coffee, and this guy walks in. Face red as a beat, all wet. And, but he remembers it very, very vividly. And he also remembers taking the phone in the restaurant and telling a guy where the TN away cafe is so he can come pick Waldo. And then he said, just before I left, Walter bought my coffee, said thanks. And the cowboy, now known as Jeff Osatech, went on to complete his concert that night. He's a singer in a band, has been for a long time. He's got a couple CDs out and he's a fantastic singer, by the way. So he confirms in minute detail mirrors

34:59what Walt told us in his confession. And there's absolutely no evidence these two have ever met or talked or anything. He's telling us in 2013, he told Kyle this story in 2013 and gave Kyle a written statement. And then I interviewed him in 2017, and he's been truthful. He's a good man. Now, when you look at the sketch that the famous DB Cooper sketch, and then you look at a photograph of Walter Recker, it's very similar. You can see a similarity right away. Has this guy Brennan ever been shown photographs of Recker? You mean Osatech or Brennan was... Oh, no, yeah, the cowboy. I met the cowboy, yeah, the cowboy.

35:59Was he shown pictures? Well, he, uh, Kyle sent him, and Kyle isn't a police officer and investigator or anything like that. Matter of fact, Kyle's recordings, where he's asking questions, he contaminates the responses of Walter so terrible. But he repeatedly asked questions, and he did a sufficient, he actually did an admirable job, sufficient enough for me to feel very confident in the content. But, uh, yes. Kyle sends Jeff Osatech a photograph, one photograph of Walter and says, is this the guy you saw in the Tianhui Cafe, and Jeff said, yes. So, you've got, you know, an eyewitness. Whose details are a mirror image of what Walt told us.

37:06You've got his home that he bought after the skyjacking. That owner's testimony is a mirror image, basically, of what Walt told us. And everything else Walt has told us, we've been able to corroborate as best we could. Now, we're working off the publisher's budget. There are a lot of things I wanted to do. I wanted to hit Clielum Hard and see if there were any, any citizens there who attended that concert, the night of November 24th, 1971, at Greenjaw, to confirm that Jeff performed that night. We've got a letter from a guy who owned the dump truck who said, yes. In the early 70s, Jeff Osatech did drive a dump truck. And then we've got Jeff actually subbed for a guy

38:07that night at the Greenjaw, on November 24th, 1971. And we've got a letter from the guy he subbed for, who said, yes. He doesn't specify the date, but he said, Jeff, subbed for me. So, you know, we've got a lot of corroboration on this thing. In addition to all the forensic linguistics I did in the statements themselves. Now, how did we be able to use that? What, the statements? No, no, the forensic linguistics. What were you comparing? Like, how were you using that? That's something we were going to talk about at a later show, but let me give you just a little capsule, okay? Everybody speaks uniquely. Everybody speaks uniquely. And by that, I mean, we, everybody communicates uniquely.

39:07Our body language, our eye movements, the way we pronounce words, the way we pause, the way we breathe, the way we, the inflections in our words, the kinds of words we use, and so on. All of that is basically a fingerprint that everybody has. They have a unique communication pattern. So, what I looked for, I had the tapes. I had 10 mini cassette tapes that we later transcribed. And my wife had to put in well over a hundred hours trying to fine tune those transcripts, so they were brought up to the standard. I needed to do forensic linguistic analysis. Hello, it is Ryan, and I was on a flight the other day, playing one of my favorite social spin-slot games on chumbacacino.com. I looked over the person sitting next to me. You know what they were doing? They were also playing chumbacacino. Everybody's loving having fun with it.

40:07Chumbacacino is home to hundreds of casino-style games that are free anytime, anywhere. So, sign up now at chumbacacino.com to claim you're free. Welcome bonus. It's chumbacacino.com and live the chumber life. Sponsored by chumbacacino. No purchase necessary. VGW group void for prohibited by law, 21-plus terms and conditions apply. And the analysis I did was, I tried to get a calibrate to the individual, what kinds of words they use, when they use them, when they don't use them. You're listening to the audios. I listened to how the people enunciate. How quickly they respond to questions. Are there pauses? Are there different pauses? Are there different pronunciations? Are there different? So, I looked for their communication pattern and then I looked for changes in those communication patterns. Because it's in the changes where these,

41:07there's a reason for that change. Somewhere there's a reason for that change. It could be, they simply thought of some past event that all of a sudden made them distracted them. It could be a noise in the room. And one of the options, one of the causes could be deception. So, I looked for changes. If the communication patterns are consistent, that's a good sign. The person is being truthful. If there are changes, then I have to go in and figure out what caused those changes. So, I listened to the audio tapes and I analyzed the transcripts. I count up how many words were used by a particular person. I color code those things and I'm, you know, I've got 104 pages of transcripts

42:07on the floor down below me. All highlighted, showing different words, different phrases, and different colors. And then I looked for patterns. And I looked to see, like, the pronouns, whether or not, because the pronoun I is a very specific and important pronoun. If somebody says, I did this, they did it because they're taking accountability, responsibility, there's only one eye, and they're very specific and precise. And truthful people talk precisely, untruthful people try to obfuscate or confuse. So, you use all those different things and I analyzed the transcripts, looking for patterns. And I came away from all of that analysis,

43:08hundreds and hundreds of hours, feeling that my witnesses were truthful and so was walled. Fascinate. We have to have you come back and do a whole show about that. I'd love to take a class from you. That's kind of the fascinates. But let me ask you this. Now, the FBI, Walter Recker, ever come across the radar of the FBI? Because you got to think, if he was such a hot shot parachute guy, he's there within 100 miles, 150, 200 miles of worried lives, did he come across their radar? As far as we can tell, no. Okay. But, you know, some of the things the world sent to Carl were identification pieces. KGB identification pieces. And vaccination records, passport records, showing he traveled to the Middle East repeatedly

44:11and to Poland. And Ukraine, in all of those places. And it's during that period where Carl had lost contact with him and had no idea what Walt was doing. So it's possible there is some federal connection there in terms of Walt doing things in a clandestine way. But it is still speculation. But we do have quite a bit of evidence that would suggest that. Right. Because when I was doing research on this, one of the stories I heard, I wasn't sure if it was your story, is that he was approached by two men in hard hats and then they offered him a job in some kind of intelligence agency. Is that your work? Yeah, that's not my work. But that's part of what's in Walt's testimony. Okay. And Carl goes into that in his book and the documentary does as well.

45:12And the only indication of that, though, is that these passports and and vaccination documents and stuff like that that he provided for you? I'm sorry, I said a grand end. Yeah, in order to verify those claims, what do we have anything besides the vaccination documents and the passports and that kind of stuff, anything else? Statements he made to his niece. We have those records trying to think, now I focused on the DB Cooper thing, so I'm not the best person to talk to about those items, okay? But my concern would be, okay, if we could suspect he's exaggerating that portion of his life, perhaps he's exaggerating the DB Cooper portion of his life. I got you. Yeah, what do you think?

46:12We found anything we could corroborate. You know, it's not like you can go to the KGG. You know, yeah. It's this ID legitimate. Even if it was, it wouldn't tell you. But everything we could corroborate, we tried to corroborate and we did. For instance, the armed robbery is a big boy in Detroit. That's all we got police reports for that. We've got his, he said he burned down in a P3A place, he owned and wicked some Michigan. We got police reports on that. Matter of fact, I know some of the officers involved in that investigation after the fact. He was involved in another attempted armed robbery and Birmingham. We've got the police reports for that. So all of those, you know, many of the other things he told us about that we were able to do research on and corroborate, we got corroborative evidence on it.

47:13So he wasn't, he wasn't, if he was being deceptive or exaggerating, it would have to be in those areas that we've been unable to corroborate. Now, he offered information frequently in real detail, which is another characteristic of a truthful person in that when they offered details like that, they know that at some point you can prove or disprove it, you know, with a real good throw investigation. Everything we could find evidence on, we corroborated what he told us. Now, what about Walter Wreckett? Did he give you any kind of information like conversations he had with the stewardess or maybe the ticket taker or the, I think he had bought a drink someplace to?

48:17Anything like that that could be, you could talk to those witnesses and then corroborate that stuff that wasn't in the news media or wasn't in the official reports? Absolutely. I got a hope, I have to hope that the FBI isn't giving everything to the public that, you know, cases are made on details. You know, that's what, that's what investigated. That's what separates a good investigator from a bad one. The good investigator will get real good details. So I have to think there are three or two FBI, three or two reports that reflect very intricate details of conversations the stewardess has had with a sky jacker. For example, Walter gives us very detailed information about his conversations with various people on that plane. And the FBI in my book, I say, you know, I think the FBI can solve this case

49:23by simply by looking at those detailed reports and comparing the information that only the sky jacker would know and that would be Walt. Now he smoked Raleigh cigarettes. They confiscated eight, I think, cigarette butts off that plane. Those were Raleigh filter cigarettes, the same kind of cigarettes. Now those would contain good DNA if the agents, when they seized it, they stored it properly. Now we've heard since that they may have lost that evidence. But if they still have that evidence, they could certainly check Walt's DNA against, you know, those cigarette butts. But in those days, that's 1971, remember, DNA wasn't even a thought.

50:23Photographs took five days to develop. Fingerprints, they were only good if you had a suspect. And it goes on and on. Any of the tools that law enforcement enjoys today, who were just a dream back then? What is the FBI's position on your conclusions and on your book? I don't know. Now I've got endorsements from former FBI agents, agents in charge. Jim Esposito was an agent. He worked with me on the half a case. He became a special agent in charge in New Jersey. He wrote a nice endorsement saying, this looks like DB Cooper to me. And I got another one from Kathleen McChesney, who was the number two, kind of like the Andrew McCabe of the FBI back in the 90s.

51:26I'm not sure she worked under Mueller or Louis Free, is probably Louis Free. But I have a wonderful endorsement from her. Police chief up in Oregon, who endorses it, federal prosecutors, who endorse it, have reviewed it and said, urge the FBI to review this material. So I'm hoping that the bureau will pick up this book and run with it and start taking a look, a close look at it and see if they can use that information to finally solve this case. What about any investigators who actually worked on the DB Cooper case? Anybody come forward and talk to you? No, I haven't, well, you know, my book was just coming out this week. Yeah. So I haven't had a chance. There are a lot of people involved in this case. Many of them are no longer with us.

52:27So it's getting more and more difficult to talk to people who are intimately familiar with this case. I should have took my time before I booked you. Who knows that a couple of weeks they may come out and say, they could all stay with you. We're giving Joe Cainigan. Come on with you again. They might come you out of France, you're coming. Thank you very much. Hey, so what do you want to leave us with? This is great stuff. I love this. What do you want to leave us with? Well, it's... Drew McIntyre here from WWE. Wheeled in the Claymore can be a life of chaos. But I'm not dominating in the ring. Chumba Casino is how this warrior takes a wee break. With hundreds of online social games and new weekly releases, there's always something fresh to try. And those daily boosts, next level, even my free time feels like Val Hallum. So when life feels like a battle, kick up your feet, have some fun. And let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Boyd we're prohibited by law, CTs and Cs. 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino.

53:27My book is an excellent primer on how to solve a cold case, for example. It talks about biases and prejudices. And it talks about all the tools that you need to help solve these kinds of cases. And how carefully you've got to be. A cold case is entirely different from an active homicide case, like the Hoffa case. That happened on my wedding anniversary. And I didn't see my wife for four days. And I was just a helter sculptor. I mean, the terrible, the pressure, you didn't have time to do anything. Cold case, you got time to work it. Think about it. But there are also political pressures. There is somebody paying your wages to solve cases not to just investigate them. So you got pressure to produce.

54:28And so, investigators have to really be careful about their biases and prejudices and make sure they're objective. And that they evaluate each and every piece of evidence objectively. That's the important thing. Have you written anything about the Hoffa case? I haven't. Oh, you got it. You got it. That's a great story, yeah. Well, you know, I've lived that case. Yeah. Now, it's 40, oh, is it 47 years? And I'm a little tired of it. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a little story that's in my book about Hoffa, though. Okay. Real quick. The Hoffa case that tremendous resources, police resources were devoted to that case. I mean, it was largely driven by the media. I mean, I remember walking out of our interview with James Peahoff, now the president of the teamsters. And as Lake Orient Home, and we saw some lights in the distance,

55:31this was on the 31st, I think, of July, 1975. And we're walking down there. And as we get closer and closer, we see a throng of people. And it turns out their reporters with lights on. And we walk in there, and Kurt Grenier, the lieutenant from Boomfield Township, who was the township officer, the local officer in charge, face the media. And it was just so hectic. But there were so many resources devoted to that case, that you wonder if it was worth it, it was. Because we used all of that publicity and public interest to get search warrants, to get grand juries in-paneled, to get wiretaps, to get search warrants. And we were able to really decimate the Detroit mob,

56:31as a result of the off-case, direct result. Oh, yeah, I can imagine. It must have been swarming all over those guys. Joe Canig, thank you so much. Getting the truth, I am DB Cooper. The website is realdbcooper.com. Keep an eye out for P.I. magazine. And hopefully, crime con in New Orleans, June 7th of the night. Joe, if people need a P.I. over there in Michigan, how can I get a hold of you? Area code 616-366-5856. And my website is www.kmiinvestigations.com. KMIinvestigations.com. Thank you so much, Joe Canig. And keep in touch with us, too, if anything comes up next week. Okay, if the FBAC is back to you with the silver reward there. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you, Ed. Good night. Thank you. Okay, so then we had Joe Canig, a private investigator, forensic linguist, a former police investigator there, worked on the Jimmy Huff case,

57:32and in charge of the Jimmy Huff case, we've got to have him come back about that. The book, again, is getting the truth, I am DB Cooper. And realdbcooper.com. Keep an eye out for P.I. magazine. He's going to be in P.I. magazine. I got a couple of articles back in P.I. magazine. We got to go back and find those. 21 Financial. The shows brought to you by 21 Financial. They provide unparalleled personalized accounting services to clients across New York and Houston area. From now until April 14th, their sole focus is getting taxpayers the biggest refund possible on their money earned. They're now mobile. You can't come to them. They'll come to you with the capability to file in any state within the U.S. You can find them on Facebook or book an appointment directly through Emily. 903-265-8563 or you go to Facebook, 21 Financial. As for a free estimate on how to double your refund, and they can advance you $6,000. Up to $6,000 on your refund. So you're going to refund coming up. Say, Emily, give me the cash right now.

58:32They hand it right over to you. You know what I'm saying? You could fudge that refund. This is a scam. Good old first financial. That's $6,000. And it'll be out of luck there. 21 Financial. 903-265-8563. Hey, guys, if you like the show, if you like the operating report, go to operamanreport.com. Become a member. $6 a month, $20 a quarter, $75 a year. You go to operamanreport.com. There's 200 exclusive interviews on it. That's like 400 hours. All right, I'm interviews. It was working for you. I could hold that operaman, man. In our member section, we have documents, scanned magazine covers, court docs, videos, all kinds of stuff in here. Exclusive stuff you won't find anywhere else. I dare you to find some of this stuff we have. So I don't want personal work. My life's work here is you can find it at operamanreport.com. I become a member. If you want a little discount, you contact me directly. operamanreport.gmail.com.

59:33Email me and say, hey, Ed. operamanreport.gmail.com. I want a discount. What kind of discount can you give me, Ed? And I'll give you 13 months for $65. So you go next your month and you save $10. And I get that money right away because it goes right into my PayPal account. And we're so broke. That's what we got it to. Need a PI? Get ahold of me at emailrevealer.com. All kinds of stuff. Assets, searches, locates, forensics work. You know, we can do the cell phone forensics and some hard drive, computer hard drive forensics. Catch them cheating online. You give us your husband's email address. We trace it back to online dating websites. Adoption investigations. You want to be reunited from a mother or father or a son or daughter. Separate it through the adoption process. Locate people's personal current place of employment. You need to find out what someone works. You want to serve them with some papers. You want to get an income execution for child support. We could find out where they're working. Find out what their assets are. Find out where their bank accounts are.

1:00:34All that kind of fun stuff. Emailrevealer.com. Thank you so much. Thank you, Joe Canig. Realdbcooper.com. Getting the truth. I am D.B. Cooper. Therefore, they call them after all these years. Walter Recker. Thank you so much, Joe. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night.