Rob Kerr | AFL Umpires Association CEO (16.04.26)

0:00But now Rob Kerz joining us is the CEO of the AFL Unpies Association. Yesterday we got the players view by James Gallagher and today we get the umpires view of course following the Zack butters and Nick foot controversy, drama, tribunal case this week. Rob, thanks for jumping on. No problem at all. Tom, thanks for having me. Rob, talk us through what the role of the AFL Unpies Association is when things get hot like what they've been the last few days. I'll look at primary role. I guess it's to look after the interest of the umpire, make sure they're feeling well supported and everything that's going on around the issue is being conducted in the proper and appropriate way. And I guess where the umpire feels that they need a little bit of extra help we're there to provide that. Do you believe that everything has been conducted in a proper way? Yeah, I think that the process has been followed pretty well, Tom. And I think probably some of the I guess one of the concerns we've had through

1:03through the week has been that Nick's effectively just done his job to the later father process gone through all the procedures. And there's been times where perhaps an absence of understanding of what's involved in the process and how it's going to play out is course and commentary. The example at the start of it was when Nick didn't engage at the end of the game with Zach. You can't have the rules that were clear that a reported player is not allowed to approach an umpire. There's good reason for that. You can't have dialogue around a report happening before the reports been laid officially or tribunal hearings and if you extend it out to community football you certainly don't want reported players approaching umpires on the field when the sirens sounded. So things like that have caused probably unnecessary commentary and had an impact

2:04in terms of some of that commentary which has really been attacks on Nick's person and character. How has Nick been throughout this process? I assume he's spoken to him extensively. I think for everyone involved in this process it's been a pretty stressful process because there has been a whole lot of commentary and understandably a lot of interest. But throughout he's been adamant and very consistent with his version of events and I think he's taken comfort of that and he's understood he had a clear understanding of what the process would be and how it would play out. So um he's managed to keep it all together and look forward to umpiring again this weekend. Was he wounded by what Zack Butter said? Oh look I know was he wounded by what Zack Butter said? Well obviously that's where the dispute's been but in broad terms

3:06whenever an umpires feels that their integrity is being questioned they're going to act on that because the whole authority of an umpire and official comes from them being fair and unbiased and if someone makes commentary that suggests they're anything but that obviously undermines their role and their authority. So as you know I did see Ray Chamon speak during the weekend and he made the point if an umpire feels that their integrity is being questioned they're going to act on that because it's so central to their role. Robyn your role is there any way that we can get to the bottom of why the audio or the microphone wasn't working on Nick foot at the time? I mean that would have accelerated this whole process I'd imagine because we would have known exactly what was said without any ambiguity. Have you managed to find that out and what how can we stop this same thing happening again? Yeah I mean that's the uh that's a great mystery in this episode isn't it?

4:08I have asked the question but I can't say I've got a clear answer as to what's happened there. So I've gotten no more information than you guys in terms of what precisely happened the suggestion is you know the food goes to where so sometimes the sounds faded down if there's potential for um for bad language to be used you know someone in the coverage is making that sort of decision I guess. But I'm no clear on that one the newer Tom and it's probably one that I think everyone would like to understand better I guess it's been two instances over the last two years where the what the mics picked up has been really important and I'm thinking back last year the lucky shorts piece and then this year with this instance but yeah we were unfortunately haven't got what we know this time around. Do you think in an ideal world there would have been some

5:09mediation between the end of the game and when this reached the tribunal a couple of nights later I understand that Nick foot by the laws of the game can't speak to Zack butters on the ground but is there an avenue where there could be a mediator to try to appease both parties so it doesn't reach the levels that it did if this sort of thing happens in the future. Yeah that's I think that's a really good question and I think a few people will turn their mind to that. I guess the challenge with that one and you know I've thought about a fair bit myself I suppose the challenge is just understanding what instance you're going to mediate in what you aren't like which which reportable instance would you say or let's try and mediate this before it gets to the tribunal versus not. So you'd need to come up a game with some sort of procedure and process that ensures it's not an ad hoc approach to it all. So in the absence of having any really clear procedure or guidelines

6:13there probably was no alternative in this instance is it something that might be considered going forward if you prepare if the times put into working out how that might play out then it's then there's probably merit and looking at it. We're talking to Rob Kerr the AFL umpires association CEO. Can you answer this question why is it that if his integrity was questioned he's only received a $1500 fine for that if it was so serious. Yeah well the best answer I've got to that is that's the current guidelines. I think it's a fair question. Historically the penalties have been much greater but under the current table I think it pretty much says that if four charges of abuse and insulting language it's a $1500 penalty down to a thousand if the player accepts the finding before going to the tribunal.

7:13Is that sufficient? No I don't think it is. But that's one that slips through and probably one that we will is one that we'd be keen to talk further about with the AFL. Are you concerned at all about the optics of the conflict of interest between Nick foot working for sports bet and also being an AFL umpire? Well I understand the perception issue but the fact is Nick is a horse racing analyst. So his work has no connection to the sport that he umpires. The AFL examined this issue a couple of years ago for potential to conflict their integrity department ticked it off. The game was raised within the tribunal hearing. Nick was questioned about it. The tribunal also didn't see that it had any relevance to his umpiring. So whilst I understand the perception I'm yet to hear the argument that fully spells out why he shouldn't be allowed to perform his employment

8:14as a horse racing analyst. Yeah so do you think it's something that should be looked out in the future or could be looked out in the future because um I'm sure you're aware of the of the of the phrase perceptions reality um and even if he doesn't work on any football and sports bet. The perception can sometimes hurt the broader integrity of the umpiring unit. Um well it's it's I mean it's a different one because the industry itself uh takes uh you know has sport as as betting agencies as sponsors. Um and now we're saying well you can't have an umpire who's employed in the horse racing side of the business. Um um perform their work. That's uh and and and until we get to the point where um you know umpire's uh whole is totally uh fully employed by the AFL and rewarded appropriately well then it's typical to say you can't go and do your work if it's being

9:16kicked off by the AFL integrity unit as not representing any conflict. Rob one of the talking points for the rest of the year will be and it's already been a talking point last night. Uh what games Nick foot does and whether it does a portable game again. Um I imagine that you'd put full confidence in him to umpire portable and impartial and unbiased way. But he concerned about the media circus or about the attention that would be on that game particularly because Zach butters is captain if he does do a portable game for the rest of the year. Uh well well I think the reality is you probably know the little uh period uh where um things settle uh but I think both sides have to be uh adult about it and accept that at some point like if it was a final and Nick foot's one of the um best umpires going around you're going to say can't umpire a portable game or the thought not. Um you know you've got to select him on his merits and do the game where appropriate. Uh maybe as I said there's a period uh we're obviously the

10:19tension tight the moment where it all settled but um all to thought at some point in time Nick would be umpiring a portable game. Uh and do you think that there'd be a moment in time um before that game where Nick foot and Zach butters can come together um either privately or publicly and um uh they don't even have to shake hands or break bread but agree to move on from what has been a pretty stressful situation for both. Um I think that's that's a pretty reasonable suggestion Tom. I mean it's going to be up to both parties on that front um you know it's like everyone in uh life you know you have issues that uh sometimes bob up and the best way to resolve them is sit down and have a conversation uh whether we get to that point or not I don't know that's up to those two individuals but I wouldn't say it's um not not a possibility. Rob really appreciate your time um thanks for jumping on. I know it's not an easy time of the year uh just not an easy situation to be involved in as the umpiring association CEO but uh I commend you for your

11:20statement yesterday and also having the willingness to talk to me today. Thanks again. All right thanks for opportunity Tom thank you. Rob Kerr the AFL Umpires Association CEO joining us.