Rob Emery: Norwich City, Refereeing & Completing the 92 | Beyond the Barclay

0:00This podcast is proud to be part of the TalkSport fan network. TalkSport. Powered by fans. Welcome to this episode of Beyond the Barclay with Me, Jess Davies. This week I am joined with Mr Rob Emory. How are you, sir? Good. Good, Jess. Thank you so much for coming on. I always say this to everyone when they come on. If you could just explain what you do for a living and perhaps how long you've been in an origin, Ben. What I do for a living, well, I work for an American company. I spend a lot of my time traveling.

1:01I'm a supplier quality engineer, which is a lot more boring than my football life, I think. And it's always just a little bit about you. Your football life, what's your... My football life, I suppose it started at the age of five. My grandfather took me to sharing a wreck to see a sharing in play. 1974 or five. They were just about to drop out of senior football at the time. And, you know, I stood there, managed to annoy the referee by kicking the ball on the pitch once, when it went out. And then obviously it progressed from now. I went to Carrode. My father took me to Carrode. 25th of November 1978 was my first game. Lost one-0 to Everton. Goal 10 minutes from time. And by some miracle, he didn't put me off and I'm still going. Yeah, it tends to do that to you know, it doesn't as quite infectious. But I think particularly if you're from the area like you say,

2:02you are anywhere, I think it's... Do you travel by train to the games or do you drive in? Or what's the... No, I drive. So my father is still sitting there in the stand with me in the couple of seats with me. Amazing. My wife is next to me. My mother went for a very long while until, you know, she's not longer with us. But my aunt came instead. So in various times I had nieces and nephews and whatever else in there. So, you know, different motivations for each of them, I suspect, as to why they want to be there. But, yeah, I've been very lucky. I've, you know, I've been lucky enough to see the European season. It had some fantastic away games. And other people will be lucky. Still, my father saw the 59 cut run, which is one of my greatest regrets. It's 10 years before I was born. And I've been very lucky to meet a lot of those people that played since then at various historical events. And people who follow after me,

3:04no doubt we'll see things as well that, you know, have missed out on Europe. They will see something else and gain their own enjoyment from this football club. No, absolutely. And I mean, I started following the club in 1993, 94 when I was about, I guess, about six or seven. Yeah, just being too old was fine. Sorry, sorry. 86 I was born. But it was, yeah, it was just the season before we got relegated from the Premier League when, obviously, Brian Gundid is, it is me. And the same as yourself, really, just, you just fall in love with it and you go down and, you know, make your heroes, etc. And I first, first ones I can remember, I said, Jerry Goss and people like that. And he and Krugler lived in the same village as me and Martian, which used to go knock on his door to go and get the ball back when we, definitely accidentally kicked it in there, by the way. But yeah, he was, he was a great character. But yeah, I think if you,

4:06so alongside sort of being a regular fan, is there anything else that you've done for the club? Well, I was, I was sent through the women's team before it was taken in house. I'm still, I'm still there doing the, the PA at the nest on matchdays. Brilliant. I think I've, I think I've got one or two player for an association challenge is coming up next year with some of the signings. I might, I might have to ask for a bit of advice and flow. And I think it's to how I, how I pronounce them correctly. That could be rather embarrassing to get, to get them wrong. Yeah. So yeah, they don't like it if you do that. And that's, it's fantastic to see that side of the football club grow. When we were running it as volunteers with a bit of money from the club. But essentially independently, it was a massive struggle. And what they've been able to do now, in terms of coaching, in terms of structure,

5:06particularly is just astonishing. And obviously they've rewords with promotion to, to T S re and looking at the, the people that have come in and the players that have come in. I think that's, that's going to be probably more than the stabilising effect at, at T S re, it doesn't necessarily go straight through, but I think that'll be all right. Yeah, I agree. I think it was, we, I was lucky enough to go to the final. The, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's an up on trend against money fields. I think it was. Yeah. It was a really good game actually. And it actually took my wife and boy. And he got treated really well because we were sat directly behind the money fields, subs and supporters. So it was, it was good, it was good fun. It was a good atmosphere, despite obviously them losing and they were, you know, understanding the upset, but they, you know, Norwich did, did well in the penalty shoot. I was there a crunch or made the, made the telling slave, didn't she? Yeah. I've got a fitting, one of fitting in to, to Con's career at, at Norwich.

6:11And I understand why she wants to step away now. You're looking at some, some big traveling distances. And I think that, that makes players look at, do I really want to do this anymore? Having, having in Con's case been there and, and done it in a WSL level. So I think that's the new chapter for sure. I think, I think what the women's game does do is it brings so many more people into the football club and introduces some of the football club in a, in a lot of different ways. Some people, it's kind of, um, Eurodivergency and they can't, with large crowds and they can cope at the nest, although they're crowds are crowing, but they can, they can cope with that and be looked after on a, um, more individual basis almost. And, and obviously, um, you know, you, you'd look at just the, the, the reaction of young kids, not just females, but young kids to those players and the time that those players can give to the first team can't give. Yeah, and it's just astonishing what a bomb there is between supporters and, and that women's team.

7:12Now, absolutely. We know as you, I don't know if you, you are aware, but we do cover the women's game at Norwich quite, quite heavily. I mean, I'm aware and, and, and obviously, you know, what you're, what you're doing you that with that is, um, is a big part of drawing people in as well, right? And I think everything that we're all trying to do, um, is growing and growing and growing. Um, that's part of the football club. Yeah. And I think this is the, the sorry, carry on, Rob. And, and I think now, now there's, there's more decisions we made around it, aren't there? You know, and people will ask for more and more carer road games and that's not, that's not practical. Um, you need a home base to come to which is an S. We play much better at the S because we're more, literally more at home there because we play them on a different surface to carer road. Yeah. And, and realistically, you know, you started, I think with seven thousand or something or maybe more, maybe 10,000 nearly on the first one is going to, and it's gradually gone down as a novelty has worn off. So, of course, I think, I think you have to be careful not to overcook carer road.

8:17And that's why it probably kept it to us really games and see some quite sensibly. Agreed. And I think as well as that, it, it, it, it, it then allows for that natural growth as well. Doesn't it in the women's game? And as you say, the next hopefully in the future, I mean, it's night and day from when they first went there to what it is, what it is now and you'll know because you're there every week, but it's a great facility. And I think it can only go one way really and women's football in, in, in the UK, England, well, the world really is, is, is catapulted and it's completely different. I mean, I always remember going to a wife to watch an FA Cup game, FA Cup final, actually, and Arsenal were playing. Alex Scott was playing that. I tell you how long ago it was. And it was a donkaster. Sorry. And you know, you think now the FA Cup finals for the women's now a sellout at Wembley, it's just shows over that sort of 10 year, 10, 15 year period, what, what the women's game has become. Yeah. And I was there. Well, I've been to the last two or three. And, and then you're looking at this year was a bit less.

9:19More season just gone, but I think it was 90,000 nearly. The previous end and some minutes, it's, it's almost, I'm heard off, you know, it's going, it's almost going back to the euphoria of, you know, dick, dick, dick, dick, hells, women, dick, there's women, sorry. And, and just, but it's not a novelty anymore. It's a big, it's a big business now and there's some, I think people are really, very surprised by the standard and the skill level of the players. It's, it's, it's, you can't compare it to men's football. It's a very different game. Yeah. But it's a very, it's a very, very skillful game, the Wembley game. Yeah. Very, very much. I mean, there is physicality, but, but less, so I think it's, I think it's interesting when we go from here, you know, I've seen it. As you say, I've been there a long while. I've probably now in like six seasons or something. I was in some way shape or form and I've seen that go from struggling to get a hundred people to say it, the Saisen for, for full of them at the next last year and hopefully it'll continue to grow.

10:21And there's a way to increase capacity there. Absolutely. So moving on to some, perhaps some of the questions that I'll set you about five minutes ago. So I apologize. It lost. No, it's always good. I can take it. I can tell it's very good. So being a level five referee has a viscerate in change the way that you watch knowledge matches and are you more understanding of referee's decisions? Or do you still find yourself showing the officials from the stands? No, I never share. Never. No, that may not be true. So I've so I've refereed for, I'm going to think I'm in my 41st season. Oh, well, congratulations. I start at the age of 15. I know low people that are, that are in select group level. There's a referee on the select group called Tom Leild. Tom started his career in Norfolk. I've known Tom since he started at the age of 16. And actually, I'm immensely proud to see what Tom has become as a referee.

11:26I think he's a, I think he's a fabulous referee. I think he, he understands what he needs to do. No one knows his perfect right Tom. Tom understands what he needs to do to go to the next level. But I think he's, I think he's probably one of the most consistent referees on the, on the championship in the moment. And I hope he'll get his chance with the Premier League game this year now that, now that they're very arranged into one select group, he's probably got a better chance. But so I see and I hear, I hear from people like Tom, just how good the preparation is now and people were moaned about what, how and where beer's all isn't, isn't doing. And obviously I'm, I'm not privy to the inside of that. But I, but I do get the impression that referees know much, much better prepared. Unfortunately, of course, players cheat more. Yeah, the ball trees of it, right. And players will look to steal every advantage they possibly can. And we're now looking at the laws having to be tweaked every year with something.

12:31And this, and this year is goal kicks and throwings. Yeah. Just just to stop players trying to do what they're trying to do to ruin the game, the professional level. And unfortunately, of course, that, that goes right down to the, to the local game, not in terms of the cheating, particularly. Because it's not by and large. But nonetheless, the same laws are being applied to them. And some of those things are a bit silly and local football. So the first game's got got a bit to answer for on that. In terms of, do I, do I view referees, decisions more sympathetically? I understand what they're trying to do more. Because I've had a local referee and career in up to senior football, a re-ease for level of football, nothing like what those guys are doing. And I'm clearly, I'm no one, it was good a referee. As they are, never, never wasn't, never will be. And, you know, I worked with Tom Wantson just to hear the way he manages games and talks

13:31and talks through games is just, you know, I thought that's what I was quite verbal. And he was just, yeah, told me at the end he was, he was like me on diarrhea, frankly. So just, I do understand what they're doing, but equally when I see them do something that I think is so absolutely basic through that 40 years of experience, I'm probably inclined to scream a little bit as well, yeah. So sometimes, sometimes I have a scream, but a lot less than most other people. No, this is it. I mean, otherwise I'm a qualified referee. I'm not registered, sadly. But I think on the same as you are watching a game and I'll make a call if you like. So if I'm watching it on TV or watching it live and that might not be the right call, but it's the call that I'm making. And then when I then watch it back on a replay, I'm like, oh, wow, actually that referees got it right. It's got its part. And it's that they have to make that second, they have to make that decision in a split second. And almost sometimes they can think about it, right?

14:33But more often than not, it has to be a quite a quick decision. Yes, obviously we've got a VAR nowadays and that's probably one for another day. But I think I do think, and I watched the referees and the World Cup in or I don't think there was many people who correct me in the comments probably, but I don't think there was many errors in the World Cup. And I liked how the VAR decisions were almost instantaneous. Yeah, and I think probably VAR would learn from that in this country as well and improve. But I think the good thing now is referees and no longer penalised from an individual mistake. It used to be that you've made an individual mistake. You could have the most fantastic decision you could be online for promotion to the next level of the professional game. And you made one mistake in one game and it's considered major enough that your season is over. And that's not right because everyone makes the mistake, football is everyone, right? And it's good that that's changed.

15:34And I know that things like giving a penalty when it's really, really, really marginal, you don't see the slightest touch on the ball and you haven't got VAR, you're not being used to that anymore. And I think that's the right way forward because then you are getting the good referees that are prepared to make decisions and not the ones that will play it safe and give a non-decision. Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well as that, I mean, I, the fortunate work in its deep niche football club for a few years in their academy and there was a lad there called Farai Halam who was on the books. He's a great... Yeah, he's a great... Yeah, he is. And he did demand City Game and I think there was a game he did before where he had the confidence, I wouldn't like say, misguided, we wasn't misguided, but he had the confidence to overturn a VAR. Yeah, from a FIFA official, yeah. Yeah, exactly. He's been World Cup, I think, I think as Jared Gill, it wasn't he ever ruled.

16:35Yes, that's right. And I think he wasn't overly chastised about it and I think it was like, actually, we've got a young referee here, but his first season in the Premier League and actually he's been quite well supported, would you agree? Yeah, I do. And I think the unfortunate is that Guadio Le Cama after was and had a massive go at him, because he didn't give Manchester City something and actually, I think that probably did him more good than anything in a lot of ways because everyone just said, what's Manchester City Moneying again, get off the guys back. So I don't think it actually harmed him, but it could have done. Yeah. And to come through that and the confidence and the self-confidence, you have to have to referee at that level, at any level in the professional game, whether it's league one or two as well, you have got to have confidence and you've got to know if you make a mistake, you part that and move on from it otherwise your game just goes down and down and down,

17:41at any level of football, but particularly at that level. Absolutely, and I mean, I was saying I have a former career at mine was in five side football, but power league and both of them are among stuppers, but I've mentioned power league, because it's obviously local to yourself and the amount of, I wouldn't like to say abuse, but abuse, the referee's got down there and I'm like, come on, these guys are coming down, they're giving up their time, yes, they're being paid for it, but not nearly enough for what you're there if they happen to be put through. They just want to come and watch a game of football and get them being involved and I just think they does need to be something done, I think, at that level of you must see it, you know, where you are and the support mechanisms that the local FA have, yes, they have improved, but I do think there does need to be more done for these local referees. I'm not sure I'd want to start now. 40 years of experience tells you what to say to players when to say to players and when to take certain actions and not take certain actions,

18:46sometimes more crucially, and when can you manage a situation you don't have to resort to cards and a very management side of it and I think most people of my experience probably hour as well, we're probably over managed before we throw cards about and I think you see that, I think you see that actually in championship and Premier League as well now, I think the bar has been raised for cards and there's much more player management now and looking after the game and thinking about what is the game expect here. But if there are a young referee starting out now, I think I'd find it more difficult. I've got the tools now. I've got the experience and even though the fitness might be rapidly disappearing down the drain, I've still got that personality, I've still got that ability to talk to people and to manage games and you only get that by experience and unfortunately we still lose too many people in the first two years before they get the experience

19:50and they've had to deal with those things and that's really regrettable. I completely agree and I just said I hope something's done about it. I just want to talk a little bit about your 92 club mission which you've accomplished visiting every current English league ground. So which day, sorry, I'll start again, which away day stands out as your favourite and which stadium surprised you the most? I think I had the most fun in League One, in the League One season and I loved going to places where it was much more relaxed. Crue, I loved going to Crue, I mean it's a Gresti road or whatever it's called now, is a really quiet and assuming ground but the people are fantastic. We obviously, we won promotion there. I think you and scored his 97-94s, well he was maybe 95th goal for the club and got two in the game, even Clay Fleming got one and we won the title that day, Nick to head in West Brom and the

20:59crew fans came on the pitch afterwards as apparently they always do, I don't know if this is still doing that, they do that at that time and they called us on to come and celebrate with them. That was just an incredible thing to be able to go on there and there's no aggravation, no nothing, Stuart's referring to the fantastic and basically saying yeah yeah go on, go on the pitch. So that was a really good afternoon, Colchester getting a little bit revenge back for the 7-1, going there in the pouring rain and turning him over I think it was 5-0. So I think those sort of things stand out and I get that people want to go to big Premier League grounds and I think the last time we got promoted, I saw particularly having got promoted after quite a long while out in one case, I think we're out for nearly 10 years or so won't we and got up and you saw all these young fans who would never

22:02experienced a Premier League grand before and never experienced a crowd of that size, just looking so excitedly about what was to come and going to Old Trafford even though it's falling down and going to Anfield and other big big stadiums and asked a lot of us to top them amongst them and West Ham for size although not for facilities. Yet that to me was just I've done this, I've been there, I've done this, I did this 20 years ago and it didn't have that same excitement. So I think the older you get the more your experience and what's enjoyable changes. I did at one point I did a lot of consecutive games, I think it was about 15 years not missing a game home in the way. And that's not any great achievement, there's people on far, far, far bigger runs than that who

23:06do not publicise it at all and what I did was not at all remarkable and there's lots of people who have done far more than that and don't share to about it. And we got stuck on in the traffic jam on the 11 for eight hours and Mr. Gain with Christopher Panis and I think in honesty that was the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Apart from the fact we got Dick 4-1, there's Nigel Worthington's time. And because I'd been going for the sake of going to keep that run of games, consecutive and all of a sudden it was over. And I started making rational decisions about am I really enjoying this? And for a while for various reasons I didn't really go away that much for a few years and then two or three years ago I started going away again, really enjoyed going, enjoyed the day a lot more, much more than the result, the result became

24:08unimportant. It was here with, here you're seeing what's the pub like. And last year I think I did 20 or 21 away games. So which is probably the most I've done for probably 10 years or more, I think. So I've been kind of trolling around doing this on a regular basis since the early 90s, probably 92 or so when I was a relatively young man and I'm still trying to do as many as I can now and still enjoy it, hopefully. Good, good. And I think that's the thing in it. I mean I always remember that season you were talking about the 2005, I think was our one back in the Premier League and then it took us a little while to get back in again, didn't it? I mean the 2005 season, the Horelok was the man United, we're not home but I did go to the full and six-nilos, unfortunately. Never been vaccines. But now I think games that have surprised me was that first one in the Premier League, I think

25:09it was Wigan, we won 2-0, who lands scored, we won that green kit. I think Tottenham, I think the same season we beat them at the old White Art Lane. But more recently I've been to Rexham and did Rexham last season, not because of the, I have watched the Hollywood documentary but inspired by it. We had the staff from the show on a few times as well which was great to speak to him. But it was just the whole day, I mean within 2-1, Jover McCarmus scored a great goal and then Kavatchibitch had an excellent save as well. It was great to go there and obviously the Portsmouth game when we got promoted as well. Yeah, yeah, sorry, and Sydney is girl writing for Ryan Frank, and Rexham was, I mean Rexham special in the sense that I hadn't been there with Norwich, very few people will have been, we hadn't played there since I think it was 81-82

26:14and Lincoln this year will be even more of a rarity because I don't think we've played there since about 1960 something. Wow. And that was, was that a Texaco Cup Cup or something in preseason? I mean it will high, it was one of those. So Lincoln this year again will be, again there's nothing there's nothing special about Sensor Bank in that sense. Although it's much improved from when I first went there when I was doing the 92 but you know again just to watch your own club and other ground you haven't been is something a little bit special because it tends to happen with small allocations. So you become one of a relatively small number of people able to do that and I'm very lucky to be in the position that I am able to do that at the moment. That's brilliant and you've obviously, I mean again, Milwell asked quite surprised about as well by the way. I thought they, you always have this reputation about Milwell but I never felt that. I was, I actually felt

27:15that the away fans really well to be fair and they've cleaned their act up a lot and you know you look at someone like Dave Carolyn who was sports scientist headed up sports science at knowledge under Nigel and has been to a number of clubs one of the very best sports artists in the business. Again, very lucky to know Dave well and when he speaks about his time at Milwell he speaks for the great deal of affection about club and the people around it. Well at first I never went to the old den, I'm not sure whether I regret that or not to be honest it was not the nicest place to be by all accounts. But I did go to one of the very early games at the new den when they first moved there 20 odd years ago and I went as part of finishing the 92 or re-qualify for the 92

28:16and the racist abuse was just absolutely horrendous. It's probably the closest I've ever come to being arrested in the football match because I complain to a policeman about the racist abuse and why won't they do anything about it and he just shrunk the shoulders and said we can't and the club to its credit has taken initiative itself and cleaned a great deal of that up. I'm not going to say it's not there period because unfortunately it's still in the game at every club including at knowledge because there's been instances at knowledge that we know about. But Milwell have probably done more than most to turn themselves into a football club closer to what the rest of us think football clubs should look like at the moment. Absolutely and I mean Luton Towne another club close to my heart. I'll go so far to say that when my second club if I'm allowed to say that they've got a bit of a unique stadium as well haven't they? I mean they're here I don't even more

29:18unique one before they demolish those business lounges when they had to when they got promoted but what you thought on the Kenny? On the Kenny. I may not be quite as enthusiastic as you. I've seen some decent games there, some decent wins. I don't quite have the I don't quite have the what's the word. I've never described the Kenny as passion to be honest. I don't quite have any enthusiasm for it that I think I think many do and I do I do look at some places that people think are great and atmospheric and with this that and the other and QPR, QPR and the upper tier is the other one which I just think is frankly is downright dangerous now. Yeah great. And Luton isn't Luton isn't dangerous but I think QPR at the back there if

30:21ever you had to get out I wouldn't fancy my chances of getting out frankly I think I think there's a high crush risk. And how it continues to get a safety certificate frankly. Not really agree. I think if you ask me I think one of your questions was what what grounds surprises me most and maybe maybe QPR is it because it still keeps getting a safety certificate frankly. I don't know how they ever got away with building it because it wasn't open terrace before they before they built both both those ends so they're a strange one. I think actually the one that probably has surprised me the most particularly if you take a can of where they came from is the New York State in Monroe the room. Yes and I think and if you look at Millmore sadly is now being demolished I think in the next few months and much so I'd like to Millmore for atmosphere. I think what they've

31:22what the Roderham have built is absolutely perfect for that for a great club and it's a fantastic facility. It's great sight lines size wise they pretty much fill it in the championship to 90% and probably come close in league one I haven't looked at this recently. But I think that's a really good example of building football ground keeping your community it's you know what probably it's closer to the town centre the Millmore walls by a couple of hundred yards keep it keeping your town centre keeping your community build it of a size that's right for you put community facilities in it and people people will come and I think that's what's happened at Roderham and I think is a really great example of how to how to plan a football ground. I completely agree and I think you know not to bring it back around to Leighton but I'm going to they are building a new ground currently which is going to be a part of Leighton called Power Cork so they're not moving it they would the plan was to move it to the M1 junction which junction

32:2514 12 13 or 14 wherever it is. No sorry junction 9 and that was where they were going to build it but they they've now over the last five or ten years long cut along story short moved into the town centre and it's on the on the grounds of an old power station which is in the centre of Leighton opposite the Mall and they're just completely regenerating that area because because they're putting a 25,000 seat of football stadium there they're going to put new flats new shops new everything basically and it's in between the two there's two railway stations in Leighton Leighton Parkway which is predominantly for the airport and the new in town centre but it's in it's in between those two as well so it's it's a really perfect location. Maybe I like it more than the Kenny and there's they've made it unique in the sense that the flood lights are I'm trying to think for the best way of putting it they've tried to make it look like a hat because obviously

33:30the hat has in a modern way obviously not you know but it's yeah so they've tried to add a bit of character to it it's not going to be another another soulless bowl like some of some of these stadiums are or have been in the past. Where's Tom Coff here? Yeah yeah. Trent's place. Yeah I've been there twice once for not the Olympics it was the championship athletics a year or two after and to watch Muse and yeah I can't imagine it being great for football but there we go. It's not you'll have that pleasure and it's not this yeah yeah absolutely divorced and when you think about one up to part was the Berlin and and had some really really great nights at the Berlin there was a time when they were redeveloping it and they restricted the 250 away tickets and I got a got one I was going a lot at the time I think that was in my my 15 year 7 750 game streak so I got

34:36I got one of those tickets and we sat in the main stand with the West Ham fans which could have been sort of a bit dodgy because they did have something like a reputation being being dockers at Har and and the band who was absolutely fantastic that night so I've always I've always had a little bit of a soft sock for the Berlin in the the pub and whatever else and yeah a lot of that has been lost and I'm sure I'm sure that's a big contributor factor to their relegation as well. No absolutely just looking at some of the other questions I think we've covered for a but I would be keen to know where you think Carrored ranks in all of the grounds that you've visited where would they rank within I guess atmosphere location of the ground everything is much like experience I suppose. Well I think if I was in a way fan it would probably be quite high you know this is the views very decent obviously from from South Stand there's lots and lots of very

35:40very good drinking pubs you want to you want to the you want to pub tour of a city then Norwich Norwich is up there with you know Bristol Bristol's okay but Norwich would be Norwich would well up there you know it's ahead of places like leads and etc bigger bigger cities for sure and it's you know in terms of transport other than you know almost a shoot on site policy for car parking but on large transports pretty good it's six seven minute walk from the train station to the way 10 style so I think I think if I'm in a way fan I'd probably put it fairly highly um if I if I looked at it from an atmosphere point of view um because I'm a commune from the old bugger I think things were always better in our day right when we started going so

36:42I just look back to some of the promotion games and kind of five nils against I think it was Walsall in those sort of mid mid two sands and Tybera when we got when we got promotion back I think under Nigel and the place was absolutely bouncing really really loud and I'm not I'm not sure it's even that loud for games when we beat it switch there so something somewhere has been lost I don't know why but it does it does seem to me that there's a there's a lot less noise in the grand these days compared to not when I was a kid not when I was starting out because I can't really remember even though the crowds were bigger um or could potentially be bigger with terracing still there of course um but just even 15 20 years ago um so and I don't know what the answer is and obviously there are fan groups trying to try to bring that back or maybe it's just that people like me that

37:47might have been louder and no longer are you know I'm I'm probably very passive myself now and I want to see that I think I think you never lose up bars but I think some of it is certainly I wouldn't like to say what we witnessed on the pitch over the last four or five years but we've lost that sort of bounce bounce ability of me between the leagues and it being fun and you know I think Clements being the closest off scene to far can I think when we got Daniel Farkin it was like it took a little bit of time but eventually he um how do I put it like you know inspired the fans to yeah and there's a relationship back there between the manager and the fans that maybe we we haven't had for a while and we certainly didn't have it through kind of the Dean Smith type type Irish um where it just didn't didn't relate at all and was never never going to win well you know Glenn Road is famous must have missed your tenure as in the manager speech at the age of M so um yeah I think I think we have missed out and maybe maybe Philip Clemon brings brings that back

38:54a bit and we'll see um but if the players produce on the pitch then yeah obviously the noise level's going to go up isn't it yeah 100% and I think that leads nicely to my last question then so how do you think we're going to fare this season must you what is your early predictions I mean I think if we don't reach the playoffs this year given there's the ghost weight in the playoffs that has to be considered a failure um money obviously is still tight um you look at one injury to a key player in Aliyah made and probably season gone yeah and yet and yet there's we don't don't have the means at the moment to to bring someone else in through you know the owners of Richard and Deelia and Michael but but they're not in the mega rich category still and you still have financial fair play rules which are tied in there in the championship that they were last year so um that's that's difficult a lot I think will depend on can we can we stay large injury for you if we

39:59can don't know it's going to be it's going to be tight I think we've become to a company big big playoffs can we get top two so it's tough isn't it it's tough with people having um parachute money that we no longer have so there is there is a big advantage in that um people West Ham even though their crowds will drop probably still have 40 to 50,000 60,000 grams so they're generating more in gate receipts from us as well so yeah um it's it's hard you know I think I think we all like to think the best will happen and and the older you get and the more commuter when you get you become a bit more realistic and um we end up where we end up and you hope you hope is enjoyable frankly and I'm almost at the stage and I don't think I'm alone in this of do I really want to get promoted and have a season of struggle or do I actually want to enjoy what I'm watching and I think a lot of me is heading is heading towards that my stage of life and supporting career um is heading

41:06much more towards I want to enjoy seeing on what's happening on the pitch and I don't want to sit there watching this after the fend for 90 minutes and lose 70% of our games of course because that's just not fun it's just not no so it creates a knock on effect as well doesn't it because then you you almost have that hang over for the following few seasons if that does happen with a close average and your second team is a prime example of it yeah sorry sorry to remind you um no no it's fine and and that happens you know and that happens unless lester albeit um you know they had they not had their points deduction they they wouldn't have been relegated they'd have stayed up I think on gold difference wouldn't they but yeah you know they they had exactly the same problem that when straight through so um I think we're I think we're getting more resilient than those to be honest because of the way the club is structured um we're not we're not going to go out and buy multi multi million pound players who cannot adapt to the championship and don't want to be in the championship by

42:11and large we're we're buying players are a young and hungry and if they do come down might might well stay with us and give it and give it a shot and be used to the championship so yeah I don't I don't think we likely to be in that position of going straight through if we're likely if we're good enough lucky enough to get promoted so that's that's something but it's still it's still come down obviously and it's still an adjustment if that happens of course Rob thank you so much for coming on it's been a pleasure thank you pleasure to speak to you and best of luck for the season with your effort in as well just for everyone else watching we do have this event on Friday the 18th of September which is our first ever fan forum at the Freemason Arms pub on Hall Road in Norwich we have got Connor Salfall Henry Miller from the BBC Radio North Hook and a few other guests yet to be announced so it is pre-entry with a voluntary donation to our charity Ambers Army so please do join us on that evening if you if you're available and also if you click like on our

43:13YouTube accounts it will hit subscribe if you'll never miss an episode and we'll have a weekly episode speaking to fans like Rob once again thanks Rob obviously the other thing I've got to mention is follow us on all the social media channels we are partner with Mars Seal Pyrrh Design and the Freemason Arms pub on Hall Road in Norwich thanks Rob of being just Davies I don't have been Rob Emmering I'll try and be there thanks everyone cheers guys this podcast is proud to be part of the Talksport fan network Talksport powered by fans