Rihanna's "Umbrella"

0:00One song nation, today we're bringing back one of our favorite episodes of this show, to talk about the song that turned Robin Rihanna Fenty into one of Earth's biggest superstars. Today she has 14 Billboard number ones and massively successful beauty and lingerie lines, but before she was a billionaire, she built her first smash hit on top of a garage band drum loop. So today we're going to break down her hit song, Umbrella. Listen to all of its isolated layers from the drums and synths to Rihanna's gorgeous vocals. You may have heard this song many times before, but never, never quite like this. We're talking one song, and that song is Rihanna's Umbrella. Ella, Ella, Ella. In fact, businesses who use LinkedIn are 24% less likely to reopen a role in the next 12 months.

1:03Higher write the first time, with LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Post a free job today at LinkedIn.com slash quality. We do. But this time we're talking about a record that had a huge meteorological impact. I have no idea where this is going, but I'm going to treat it. Please explain. Luxury, what have I told you then? In 2007, when today's song reached number one in the UK, it coincided with the fact that it was a huge impact. We do. But this time we're talking about a record that had a huge meteorological impact. I have no idea where this is going, but I'm going to treat it. Please explain. Luxury, what have I told you then? This time, the day's song reached number one in the UK. It coincided with or perhaps triggered dramatic floods all over Britain. I would say that's definitely not a coincidence, but please explain.

2:05No, that's true. It's true. The days before the release of this song, clear skies, sunshine, after it hit number one, the UK had some of the most dramatic rainfall ever since recorded records began. Okay, that's super crazy. I give you not. And that's really insane. So I mean, like the British get a lot of rain. They do. Wait, just to clarify, how do we know that this wasn't just coincidence? You're sure they're connected because it wasn't just the UK. The song's rain, you see what I did there? The song's rain at number one in New Zealand also coincided with extreme weather. There was flooding. There was a tornado and that's not all. Romania also had extreme rainfall and terrible weather while this song, Top the Chars, there. I say all this to say this song had everyone reaching for their umbrella. Nicely tied together. They're the all I'm impressed. Well done. That's right. On today's one song, a record that forged a new global pop star and literally changed the weather. It's Rihanna and it's umbrella. Ella, Ella, A.

3:08All right, I'm actor writer, director, and amateur meteorologist, Diallariddle. I think after today, you're a professional. I think you just made the jump. If you can say the word, you are that. And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist, Luxury, aka the guy who talks about interpolation on the internet. You didn't have the keyboard today. I took a cue from your reaction last time. Oh, gosh, no. No, you missed it. No, you missed it. Now I kind of missed it. Okay, well next time, you wish. Stop. You wish. You wish. You wish. Be careful what you wish for. So Diallo, I think we can both agree that umbrella is the song that announces Rihanna as a true global pop star. Yeah. But it wasn't her first song, it wasn't her first album. No. But tell us a little bit about her earlier years. Those first two albums and maybe even how you first heard about her. Absolutely. I first heard about Rihanna because this is during the time when I'm DJing twice a week at Boulevard 3 in Los Angeles, big night club, sometimes 1500 people through the door, super packed. And you know, when you're DJing that kind of room, like you got to hit people with the big hits. Thankfully, the odds kind of throughout the odds.

4:11Everything was sort of like a major hit. Like you always sort of knew, oh, that's a song that's going to hit. At midnight, it's going to, you know, everybody's going to head to the dance floor. And a come, you know, a long comes the song, Pond to replay, which was by an artist that we hadn't heard of. There's around 2005. And that summer, I want to say it was pretty much the unexpected hit of the summer. Nice. Like it definitely ruled the charts, but also the club charts. So catchy. So catchy. Yeah, I love the like the dance hall stuff and the early stuff. Okay, so let's talk about that. Yeah, it had a dance hall vibe. Right. The video had like some amazing dancing, which also caught people's eye. And you could hear her patois. And I was like, where is this patois from? So let's back up a little bit and talk about where Rihanna is from. She's from Barbados. Which I think makes her Barbadian.

5:12Well, I mean, I admit I just learned this word recently. So I love that you don't call someone from Barbados or Barbadian. What? You do actually technically, but if with the patois, it becomes Bayesian. Because Barbadian, the D becomes Barbadian. And they just, they're called Bayians. And I found this really cool clip where Rihanna has her like Barbadian or Bayesian patois. And she talks about her pride. Check this out. This is Rihanna speaking at a graduation. Not sure if it's good afternoon yet. The world is going to know that we've Bayesian to the bone. No matter if it's accent, because it. We Bayesian to the bone. That's Rihanna at National Independence Honours Day. I love that. Oh, that's so cool. It's so fun to hear a voice, you know, when it's not singing. Right. You know, she's just got charm in those vocal chords. By the way, I think you have an interesting story about why she goes by the name Rihanna. Well, I understand that when she was signed very young. By the way, she's a teenager like 15, 16-ish aged teenager.

6:12You know, her name is really Robin Rihanna Fenty as all the big fans know already. But her middle name is Rihanna. Her first name is Robin with a Y. And at the time she was signed, there was already a Robin. That's right. The dancing on my own Robin, who we all know from Sweden. So they're like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, because it's got the Y in there. It's got the Y in there. There's also Robin S. There's Robin S, but there's no Y in there. There are too many Robins basically. So she goes by Robin to her friends apparently. And just to make one of those wonderful connections that we do on the show, TI had the same problem because he was known as TIPS. Oh really? And when you got a sign, they're like, there's already a Q-TIPS. So that's when he went by TI. A lot of second choices out there. I think Palm of Carton, he didn't want to play bass either, but I think John beat him to guitar. So he's like, all right, I'll play bass. Happens if you get their second. So Ponder Replay comes out. And the reason Ponder Replay is released as a single is when she gets over to the states, there are a lot of people who want to meet with her. And one of those people that she auditions for is Jay-Z. Jay-Z brings her into his office.

7:12She auditions for him. He's immediately blown away. He tells LA Read, we have to sign her. In fact, he told the employees at Dev Jam, do not let her leave the building. All right, we got a contract. So we have a contract. And so apparently, she's sitting there for hours. I think I read somewhere where the contract got signed to like two or three A.M. in the morning. Okay. But this was like a new artist. By the way, just like Beyonce, when she was originally getting sort of shopped, they had she had two backup singers, not even backups. They were sort of like a girl group. All right, they were like doing that. Like this yelling. They were doing like three-part harmony stuff. You're right. Yeah. And I guess people immediately saw like, no, that's the one. This girl's special, yeah. This is the one that's really special. So Ponder Replay, really big hit. That summer, really big hit in the clubs where I was playing it. And the second single comes out. It doesn't do as much, but that's fine. It's her first album. And it has that very Bayesian feel if you want to call it that. Right. Next album, she's still playing with that sort of tropical, you know, sound.

8:13And the second album has a huge hit on it. And that song is SOS. Now, when SOS comes out, this is like 2006. We're in the heart of the decade. And you know, 80s retro is so big. Like everything from like, I think it started with like the wedding singer. But like all the, yeah, all the, yeah, all the millennials. Like they're going back to the music of their childhood, the way that like, Jenex had gone back to disco. Yeah. So all these 80s songs are coming back for those who don't hear it. SOS contains a very prominent sample by this group. Sometimes I feel I've got to run away. I feel like those claps are like peff lofty. And every time I hear it, I feel like I got to go. It's a real special clap set. And that's actually just to be super like musicologically accurate.

9:16It's both a sample and an interpolation. Oh, I believe it. Yeah, there's a sample of the loop of the beat and the bass line at the top. And then the synth is actually replaying the don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don. It sounds like throatier. What does that do? It feels, um, it feels gritty. A little more gritty. Yeah. It's got some more texture. J.R. Rotem is the producer co-wrote it with Evan Bogart, who is the son of the fat. I don't know, J.R. Rotem did that. J.R. Rotem had a run. He had a run. And it was his choice to pick up that sample. And one thing I heard Evan Bogart, who by the way is the son of Casablanca Recton. I didn't know that. How many Bogarts in this business could there be? There's two that are related. I heard him give a talk about this song. And one thing I was going to ask you about actually, is he mentions that at the time the song came out, there was something, the BPM was much faster than his. Absolutely. He was used to. I was going to ask you about your experience. Yeah. Is he mentioned this is much faster than people were used to. This is 137. Okay. This is like a no, this is a no man's land in some ways in hip hop. Because even halftime, that's like super slow. It's like 65 or whatever. Yeah, it's probably around like 69.

10:18Yeah. It's like 68.5. Do you go halftime at 69? Yeah, and that's like reg 8 tempo. And by the way, by 2010, I'd say once Drake and Migos on a bunch of, there are a lot of songs that's 65. You know that you could blend with it. At this time, you got to realize, missy Elliott, ludicrous, TI, like this is a time when everybody's having fun, I would say between 98 BPM and maybe topping out about 120. Right. So like this, this, You can't get this from the song. This song is in a weird song. You can't get it by going halftime to 69. No. And you're speeding everything up if you're going to want to. How ironic that we were talking just this morning, just to get really nerdy about the math of it. If you play a song that is three quarters the time of another song, they actually can line up in a weird time. But you got to get them out in your head. You got to line it up perfectly. You really got to be feeling it. And yeah, there were times when I literally had to stop the music and then go to SOS because SOS was a big hit in the clubs. But it was. It's one or the other. But yeah, but it was a really, it was a really weird tempo for the time. You got all your DJ techniques for doing that. You can sense something into a reverb,

11:19a cloud for a minute and then bring something in. There's always you can do it. But that's a DJ challenge. That's so cool. I always say, you know, drummers and people who are really good at math make great DJs. You know, and I don't think the two are mutually self-exclusive, obviously. By the way, one of the reasons we even do this podcast was you did a TikTok where you talked about Tainy Love. Yeah, I was just like, hmm, I wonder if he's going to bring a gluory of jumes. You know, I was like, prepare to get in your comments and hate. And then of course you got to let me down. I'm a Northern Soul fan and a Mark Bowen fan. Oh, by the way, we got to do a Northern Soul episode. And we got to do a T Rex episode. Oh, I'm coming out. Absolutely. Tainy Love by Soft Cell is a cover of this song by Gloria Jones. Sometimes I feel I've got to run away. I've got to. I mean, give it up to Soft Cell. They threw in the claps. You know, they did they kept it out. It was always like, like, Gloria Jones does not have claps there. Yeah.

12:19Soft Cell does that. It's love the tempo down a little bit though. The Gloria Jones is much faster. Oh, absolutely. I mean, like you feel the on-wee in Soft Cell's Tainy Love. And then where did our love go? Yeah. You know, when it comes in with that part at the end of their version, it's just transcendently. Yeah, Gloria Jones is a wonderful singer. She, as I mentioned before, she was married to Mark Bowen from T Rex. Unfortunately, was driving the car that crashed when he died. A very tragic story. But the Gloria Jones version is from 1965. It was not a hit at the time. It was actually a flop. The reason why Mark Alman knows about this track is because there's this movement in the early 70s in England called Northern Soul, where a small group of DJs picked up these obscure American mid-60s R&B and Soul records. These 45s is actually kind of an accident of history that just this one British DJ goes to America and buys a bunch of records from someone who died. And these are records that were never hits, but they sound like they could have been hit. Yeah. If they had been signed to Motown, they might have been. These would be in the canon.

13:20Yeah. So it turns out that Mark Alman, by the way, different Mark with the same spelling with the C, is a co-check boy at one of these Northern Soul nights in England in the late 70s, which is where he hears the original Gloria Jones version. Oh, wow. That's so cool. Yeah, pretty cool. I love that. I love that. Not to bring it always back to some of my jobs, but some of the best DJs I hired while I was working at the standard hotels were not people who came into the standard hotels as DJs. They were like, the people worked at the front desk. Oh, it's interesting. They were sometimes the models who were in the box installments. Is it their nights and nights? They're kind of picking up on what works. They were picking up. And they're like, hey, could I ever audition to be a DJ here? And sometimes they would have amazing taste of music and sort of like the co-check guy. So interesting. They ended up creating amazing careers in music on the road. Well, that's kind of a threat on this show that I really love, is like the fact of like, you can be in your bedroom and kind of make music and sort of guess what people's taste will be. Or if you're a DJ, you see firsthand what people ask about. You see the reactions firsthand. So it's a really can be a different way of music making. And I saw the reactions firsthand.

14:20I mean, Rihanna, she was killing it. Like her songs, once SOS was out and like a whole new generation of people were dancing to it, I was like, oh, she's one of the challenges for the Beyonce throne. And there were a lot of people who were going for that throne in this period. You got to realize, like Beyonce is huge, but not so huge that there aren't like imitators and other people who want that kind of pop success. The same way like the Beatles spawn a lot of people who are kind of like the Beatles, but a little bit different. For a sedation. Sure, during this time Beyonce, during this part of Beyonce's reign, you've got Rihanna coming up. And there's some who like, people forget that they were almost at that level. There was Amory who had the song just one thing. I'm just, I'm loving it. I'm trying to let it go. I'm trying to keep it for as long as I'm one thing. I'm trying to keep it just like before. And then I'm trying to keep it for as long as I'm one thing. By the way, one thing, fun fact, produced by Rich Harrison, the same guy who produced. Oh my God. Crazy in love. That's what I was hearing in my head.

15:21I'm like, oh, that's a, Rich Harrison, I feel like in the mid-Auts, he could do no wrong. He did crazy in love. Yeah, he did Amory one thing. He did the Jennifer Lopez song Get Right. Okay. And all these songs notably had like that live drummer. Right. Feel to them. A specific type of break that he's going for too, because he's playing on the ride symbol, and it's kind of like an almost like Afro Cuban beat. It's not like a straight eighth beat. Yeah. And that's a, by the way, we've talked about the meters on the showbunch. That is a Ziggaboo Motelista beat. So he's sampling on that track. We just heard the sample of Ocalcutta from the first meters record, 1969. Running a small business means I wear lots of hats. When I put on my hiring hat, I can count on LinkedIn Hiring Pro to make it easy. LinkedIn Hiring Pro helps manage my hiring workflow. But it's my job post in front of a unique network of professionals and matches me with the best candidates for my business. I can also share my job with my network. No other job site lets me do that. No wonder most small businesses say they'd use LinkedIn Hiring Pro again.

16:21I'll write the first time. Post your job for free on LinkedIn today at LinkedIn.com slash quality. College football is back. So Hilton called me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Wanna make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwick up call it, 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. I, you know, my dream, I have some stems that I don't have and on the dream category, I would love stems from the meters one day so we can do a proper meter shot. Every time we do this show, I think of at least one song. I'm like, oh, Luxury, please find me those stems. Yeah. Because I realize I really want to talk about that. The Dreamstem list is a very long one. Gotta get some, Abba, gotta get some ELO. And don't forget about Sierra. She had a lot of hits and we all thought that maybe she was gonna take the throw. This beat is automatic supersonic hip,

17:26not a funky fresh. My body's so monolotic, this beat blows my throat my chest. So you can see that like, there are a lot of people who are trying to be the R&B Diva with the major, major pop hits. But at the end of the day, Rihanna is going to do all of that and so much more. It's, I was shocked when we were researching for this episode. Rihanna is the number two female artists of all time in terms of records sales and streams. That is surprising. Yeah. Number one. Apparently according to our research, it's actually still Madonna, but Taylor and Mariah and Beyonce are all right there, you know, Nippin at her heels. But Rihanna's number two. I would not have guessed that. That's incredible. I would have guessed maybe Taylor or Beyonce, neck and neck for number one. Me too. So Luxury, we're so excited to have the stems and all the ELAs and the A's. But this song has a really fascinating genesis that might surprise some people. Talk to us about how this song gets made.

18:26All right, let's talk about how this song happened. This is one of those songs, which is almost a magical story of like, it came together so quickly that I think the songwriters themselves were surprised that they had just done this right in front of their very eyes and ears. It happens in Atlanta. This is a group of everything good happens in Atlanta. Let's be clear. The producer team of Tricky and the Dream, that's Christopher Stewart, AKA Tricky, Terry Snash, AKA the Dream. And also their third member together, they comprise Red Zone, the production team. And that's Cooke Hurrell. And he's an important part of this story too. He's Tricky's cousin, by the way. They are in business. They are making a lot of commercial music and jingles and the occasional pop song. They have not had any hits. And they have the dream. He hasn't gone solo, so to speak yet. I take it back together. They have not had any hits as a production team. Separately, the dream had co-written me against the music for Britney Spears. Oh, okay. An important fact, which will be, will come me back to it. Okay, okay. But at this point, there basically,

19:27there's a quote from Cooke Hurrell. We approach music as a business, as opposed to some other guys who do it for fun. We are trained to do whatever the client wants when they want it. But that means in this context, that they have a very quick approach. They're extremely streamlined. And that's relevant because one day in 2007, according to a story that I've heard, actually, all three members tell in various parts. So I'm gonna piece together the story from all three of those people's, tricky the dream in Cooke Hurrell's accounts. It's around seven o'clock in the morning. They're at the studio. They're getting set up. It's just like they don't have anything on the agenda for the day, other than just make music and see what happens in Pitchett. So, Hurrell, Cooke Hurrell starts playing around in logic and he finds this loop. So that is super cool. And out of the box, Louis, it's so recognizable. And I have a question as somebody who doesn't know this stuff as well as you. Is there an actual drummer who records that and then what he records gets put into logic? Most likely. That sounds very much like a live drummer who probably made, so sample CDs we've talked about on the show.

20:27And that's super cool. And that's super cool. And out of the box, Louis, it's so recognizable. And I have a question as somebody who doesn't know this stuff as well as you. So, we've got a lot of CDs we've talked about on the show. Before there was splice, there's always been this kind of alternative to sampling from records. Yeah. Because in the early 80s or so, there was this phenomenon of sampling arises out of cutting records. And the phenomenon of being sued for it also arises. Yeah. So at some point in the late 80s, early 90s, now I want to give a shout out to break Beat Lou. I know he watches this show. He puts together some of the early breakbeat records where as a producer, you can use the illegal samples. But there's a legal form that starts to come, which is sample CDs. And these are pretty cleared. Very cheap to clear. Yeah. It's usually a drummer will go in maybe, you know, for the day and just make a whole bunch of beats and then sell them to the company or is part of the company. And then anyone can use these beats like the one we just heard, royalty free, it's free to release music using it. Oh wow. And all you have to do is pay for that sample CD.

21:27Okay. That's what this is. And in the 2000s, when Apple comes out with the Logic program, and Garage Band, these are the two, when if you have an Apple computer, you probably have Garage Band, which is basically- Well, the first things you delete when you have not enough memory. Exactly. It's like four gigs, it's too big. Part of why it's so big is because these samples are in it. Yeah. You buy it and it comes with a sample library. So you can just get started right away. He was playing around as the story goes with his new copy of Logic. Some people have said it's Garage Band because that loop is, I think, available in Garage Band. Further record, Kukarell himself says, No, I was playing around in Logic. And I heard this beat. And from the other room, Trickey apparently goes, Wait, what's that? It was like, Hey, what's up, cousin, what's your plan? Yeah, it stops in his tracks, and he sits down and starts playing some chords. And he starts playing a bass line. And then in the other room, the dream comes in, and he hears what the two guys are doing. And he's like, Wait a second. And he has an idea pop in his head. He's like, turn on the mic. So the dream, and this would actually- The dream is more of like the guy who writes the lyrics and sort of like writes the song part of it.

22:28In this production team, from my understanding, Trickey is more of what we would call the track guy, you know, in songwriting circles, it's usually one person who's focusing on the music, the other person is focusing on the lyrics and melody. In practice, there's a lot of mixing and matching. Sure. You know, someone will have an idea for a chorus, like melody that may technically not be the singer. For all we know, Trickey was like, Hey, man, come grab your umbrella. Like, we don't know what it was said. It could be that could be the reason. Is it a rain's a lot in Atlanta? It could have been a rain's a group there. It was winter time apparently. It was January-ish. There you go. So he runs into the studio. He says in his telling that umbrella popped in his head, in about 25 minutes, they had just pieced together, what is the demo, which I'll play for you in a minute. It came together that quickly. And it's just because they were all just early to the studio and listening to each other almost accidentally played these things to sort of experimenting. So the dream goes to the vocal booth. Apparently he freestyles under my umbrella, including the Ella's part. From quote-unquote, from beginning to end exactly as you hear it today.

23:28Here's a couple more quotes from how it came together, like a dream, because this is clearly like a moment you never forget in your life when your first career-making hit just happens out of the blue. It began like a rap freestyle, and it just never stopped pouring, metaphor after metaphor. I was in a zone and in a feeling that wasn't going to end until I finished what I had to say. The first first was written in 60 seconds. Then we had to grow to the hook. Trickey would put the next chord on there, and I love slowing it down and just picturing the scene. So he had that first first, the dream had that first first, in the first minute. It just umbrella, metaphor, metaphor. And then they sort of step back and thought, okay, what's the hook? Where are we going to take this in the chorus? So Trickey put the next chords there. He put some new stuff on the phantom, I think was the keyboard he's playing. And that prompted the dream to have the idea to sing when the sun shines, we'll shine together. I was like, oh my god, this is crazy. I was getting goosebumps. And with that, let's listen to the demo. Let's hear this demo. I've never heard this in life. I can't wait to hear it.

24:33Let's take it all the way to the L.S. Dude, you heard it here first, the demo from Brelah featuring the dream. Man, that sounds so good. And by the way, so complete. That's an important thing about this song, is what that demo we just heard that came together so quickly. Not only is the vocal and the lyrics and the Ella and all the... And by the way, the A. Melodies, yeah. I mean, you forget that when Rihanna first comes out, her going, A. Yeah. Like, she's going to use that on a couple of songs. It's very distinctively her. It's the same way the Beatles used to always do, woo, at the end. Like, it was like a sort of a signature thing. In addition to all the vocal stuff, as you pointed out, being right there in the demo, the music you just heard is essentially the same on the final version. When we get into the stems, you'll recognize from the song you've been hearing for 15 years and also that demo we just heard, they didn't really change very much. No, I heard the whole song.

25:33The keys sound a little bit different, but... They mixed it differently, obviously. I mean, it got a little tighter. They chopped it down, so it was a little shorter. But essentially, they had the song in two hours, which is insane. So what's clear from that story is that this song was not written for Rihanna. Even though it's got so many signature things that we associate. Yeah, they were not thinking of Rihanna. We're very... She was in a huge star that she... They were aiming high, right? They wanted to get it to the positive star. So tell us who they are in mind for this song. Tell us some of the people that they pitched it to. Let's hear about this song's path to Rihanna. Absolutely. Just backing up a second, I'll just remind our long-time listeners may remember me talking about how my first job in Hollywood, when I came to LA, was I was one of the people, like these guys, trying to write songs that would be eventually used by a pop star. Absolutely. That was the job. The job description is you go in every day and you write songs, and you pitch it, and you hope that at the time it would have been... You dare I could be parry. That's right. We'll use it. We'll use it on there. And that's how you make your money. That's how you make your living. So they're aiming high on day one.

26:33Between the three of them, their big music industry, success so far, is me against the music, which the dream co-wrote for Britney Spears. Yeah, totally. So their first thought is, let's get this to Britney right away. That can be our meal ticket, because we know this on a special. Britney, this could have been big. Good thing. Not the first time, not the last time, she'll turn down a huge hit. So it's the biggest artist they knew, because they worked on me against the music together. What they said at the time was, Britney was starting work on her new album, and her personal life was a little out of control. I'll just leave that there. We thought, let's save our friend, let's give her a record. So in their mind, they were like, we've got this huge song, she's a huge star, she needs a huge hit. This is what's emotionalist time in her career. So they're like, hey, let's get her back on track. This could be a win-win-win for everybody. So apparently they send it over, and according to legend, either Jai passes right away, or she never really hears it to begin with, but they get the word back that it's not going. So they're like, what are we going to do? Meanwhile, over in the corner at Red Zone, apparently was this gentleman called Theo Cruz, who himself had a hit, Dynamite.

27:33Oh, trust me, that was another big club hit. He's like, I love this song, guys, can I do it? So to this day, it gets fun at wedding receptions. It is a huge hit. Shout out to my friend, Bonnie McKee, who helped co-write that song. Yeah. And he does a demo, which I don't have a copy of, and his rocker company didn't think it was a hit, and they didn't put it out either. So that's two passes already. They said no to Theo. They said no to Theo. Not in 2007, they don't. Two knows, and we're not done with the nose. We got one more no. It's Grammy season, so they're like, let's get it to Mary. Mary J. Blige, in this moment in 2007 is... Now that I can see. I mean, there's definitely a sort of like a Britney Spears version of Umbrella that I could have measured. You can envision it. But Mary J, like, I could see Mary killing this song. What happened with Mary? They tried to... So it's Grammy season. She's nominated for eight awards. So she is definitely a get. She's like, if they can get her to sing it, it's a smash. Yeah. But the same day, they also sent the demo to LA Reed at Deaf Jam, who had two albums in, but still kind of up and coming artist in Rihanna.

28:34The same day, it's sent to both places. And LA Reed kind of gets back to them first, saying, I want this for Rihanna. And meanwhile, they're like, Rihanna, we know about those two records. She's got that big of a star. We still want Mary J. They're in a position of like, oh damn, what do we do? Yeah. And there's a bidding war that starts to heat up. And really? LA Reed's people are calling them constantly. There's this two or three day period where they're back and forth. And LA Reed just really wants this. But they really want Mary J. Because Mary J is the proven, she's up for eight Grammys. She's the proven hitmaker. So they at the last minute, LA makes them an offer they can't refuse. Sounds a bit like Jay-Z making Rihanna. Yeah, I'd rather say LA Reed clearly. You know what I'm getting into the man's whole history. You got to give it up for his creative instincts in terms of artists and songs. He's right. He matched the right song with the right artist. It goes out to Rihanna. She stoked. She records it within a couple of days. And that's what you hear on the final version. It all came together that quickly. Wow. I think that's an incredible story how this song ends up being a Rihanna song.

29:34I love those stories. I think we call them What Ifs. They're like these pop stories about songs getting passed around. And then eventually somebody gets in. You're like, ooh, what? I mean, I immediately think of from this era, Paris Hilton was actually supposed to have the song Don'tcha. Don't you wish your girl was hot like me. Paris Hilton's catchphrase being hot at the time. Right. That's why that word ends there. No, it actually leads to some certain lyrics being sort of like remnants of who was meant for. Right. Just recently found out on Instagram. I don't remember who posted about this, but the Tories B.I.G. They wanted the Tories B.I.G. to do and it doing it, doing it, and doing it, and doing it well. And eventually ended up being the big hit for L.O. Cool J. But that is the reason because they were shopping it to B.I.G. That's the reason you hear Go Brooklyn. Go Brooklyn. Go Brooklyn. I mean, L.O. Cool J is not from Brooklyn. And I remember when the song came out, they were like, why does it say Go Brooklyn on an L.O. Song? He's from Queens. He even had to address it in the court.

30:34He's like, you know, I'm representing Queens. She was raised out in Brooklyn. And they were like, it's funny to see how it's funny. Maybe one of these. That's a good adjustment. That's a good adjustment. Okay. This, I just guys, that reminds me. You know the story of rappers Delight? Okay. So, Silly Orobin's in finds three guys at like a pizza parlor. They're like, hey, you guys want to rap? Yeah. You could be rappers. One of them is this guy is, he goes by Big Bang Kank in the song. Yep. And he didn't have any raps. So he asked his buddy, Grandmaster Cass. He's like, I'm going to go rap on a song. By the way, don't forget in 1979, there are no songs with raps on that. No, no, no. So no one has any thought about what this means to go rap on a song. So Grandmaster Cass is like, yeah, take my lyric book. So it goes in the studio, Big Bang Kank, if you listen to rappers Delight, you'll hear him say, he'll spell out. He'll just check it out. I have a C.A.S. Yeah, like he spells out Casanova. What does that Casanova fly, which is Grandmaster Cass's full name? He doesn't even change it. No. He just literally lifted that lyric. And then Grandmaster Cass is like, what was, you know, next day it's on the radio. He's like, what the, what was I thinking? This other guy is saying they're me and not even, so not even realizing that he should have done a Brooklyn Queen's transition like I've been doing.

31:39I mean, this is a little bit of a weird story, but in the first season of Miami Vice, there's a character played by the late actor, Charles Barnett. He's supposed to be like the street informant. And at the end of the episode when he's driving off in a car, he starts rapping rappers Delight. And he gets out a full bar of rappers Delight while Crockett and Tubbs are waving by to him. Okay. And I think the only reason that stayed in there was because nobody at NBC, I think they thought he was making that stuff up on the phone. Oh, it didn't know. It's from a record. It's like a season one. I think they thought he was making it up. And nobody knew about rappers Delight. I made the publisher. No one can tell the Orobinston. Yeah, I'm sure her enforcers are on that one now. Oh, shoot. You know, like if we just snitched on Miami Vice, I apologize. And Sylvia Robinson. NBC Universal. Don't hate me. By the way, there are a couple of these that I think are really missed opportunities. I heard that Meatloaf was originally supposed to sing a total eclipse of the heart. Oh, my God. That makes no sense. I can totally see that. He sets up a song at the Jim Steinman Rock Opera.

32:39And we're all poor for that not having happened. It kind of works perfectly. You know, turn around, Brad eyes. Absolutely. After the break shifts in the barometric pressure precipitation and a downpour of stims. Yeah, we're going to just keep this analogy going. Matter for us. When we come back, you will hear the stims of Rihanna's umbrella. Flowing ad bunched on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them, that's bullspin. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bullspin. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign term secretions apply. College football is back. So, Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you.

33:39Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwink up call it 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. Welcome back to one song. All right, luxury. Time for the stims. Where do you want to start? All right, let's start with the drums. And by the way, this is a song that comes out March 29th, 2007. Just two and a half months after what we're about to hear it got made. So, we already played for you that drum loop. In addition to the Apple Vintage Funk Kit 03, which is the name of that loop, which I'll play for you again, they added just a little bit more on the kick and clap and hat side. I'll play that for you now. Here's just the regular beat that comes when you buy a Mac, you get this beat. And then I'll add in the extra kicks and claps so you can hear how they come in. Starting with just the beat.

34:40And there's these kicks. And some claps. You hear that little high end thing. I'll just play that clap for you by itself. You can hear what it sounds like. Here's the kicks and claps they added. And with the beat, it sounds like this. And then there's a little open high hat that's really light in the mix. You can barely make it out, but it sounds like this. Just quarter notes. And then when you put it all together. And that is the entire duration of the song. You're just hearing that pretty much the entire song. It's so good. It's so good. And you don't need to mess with it. And the fact that it went from demo to the radio as fast as it did speaks to the fact that

35:40sometimes you can end up over thinking this stuff guys. Sometimes that first thing is good where it is. And that's the value of having some other objective ears in the room. That three person team to be able to say, hey, no, no, don't mess with it. That's when you need somebody with the creative taste of an LA read to just say, you know what? This is good. Let's just give this to Rihanna. Let's record it. Yeah. And you know what? When we get into the synth, which is coming up next, you'll hear all kinds of little imperfections and glitches to my ears. And I'll play this for you in a second to my ears as a maker of music and a maker of many demos. I can hear how this might have been literally the first pass because he's sort of playing with some ideas. And then you don't hear them again. But those are all in the final mix too. It'll make sense when I play it for you in a second. Let's start with in the synths. And this is just a little arpeggio that goes throughout the entire song. It's a four bar loop and you'll hear it a lot in the song and it sounds like this.

36:47They're just cycling through those two chords. It's got a lot of long delay on it. I love it. Really simple stuff. And if you like simple things you hear throughout the song, you'll love this. I love this. This is another just three note loop that goes through the whole song. And I'll play that with the other one. And with the beats, it sounds like this. And we got a couple more synths in the mix because we need a little bass content. The real bass itself doesn't really come in until like 30 seconds in when you get this. Oh, but by the way, as a DJ, I know exactly what you're about to bring in. Because you feel it like when the speakers are loud, you feel this extra bass coming up here. Yeah, there's two moments where there's like kind of a build up. So you get a little preview of it at the end of the verse and it sounds like this. Just this little one note. It's really dirty though.

37:48Nasty. Just that one bass note. Three, four. Technically, it's a whole note. The entire bar. And I'll play that for you now in the mix with the other synths. And that plus the beat is all you're hearing when Rihanna comes in. So minimal. She's singing over this. But then to your point, in the chorus, we get this. Technically. Sorry, technically that's a whole note before. That's a whole note. That's a whole note. I was going to say I think the other was like a quarter note. I misspoke. It's the other was like maybe even an eighth note. It's the only thing through the entire bar. It's the proper whole note in the chorus. And that is mixed with another synth that enters in the chorus only, which sounds like this.

38:49Including that little row. Together with all the synths. Together with the beats. And here's the L apart. Exactly. This is where she's dropped out. It makes a big difference. By the way, who knew that the instrumental and basically the keys of umbrella could be so Gary Newman? Yeah. Like it sounds like I'm a fancy electric, which gets a lot of shout out on the show. But if you just hear those keys by themselves, it kind of sounds like the guy who make I get in my car. Like it just sounds like that. I'm a great comparison. I love that. Apparently that's the Rowan Phantom F6, according to what I've read and that's going right into logic.

39:49And a lot of what I'm hearing is a first time maybe a second time performance. Because there's lots of little moments that aren't quite perfect. They're not quite, they're not gritted. They're not like being programmed. They are performed by a person. And yeah, they have little human touches that are imperfect. I'll play a few more of those moments for you now. I hear there's one more synth. This is called Fuzz Base. This is in the second verse it comes in. And I'll add some more parts you can hear the context. That little moment right there is what I was referring to. He just kind of played that in the moment and never does it again. It's almost a mistake, but it's just like, no, let's keep that. I'll play it again. This is something like very Atlanta does new wave music about this song. I think it's very cool. You recognize you identify with it? I do, man, because even though it sounds like new wave, I can't help but do my Atlanta dance to it.

40:50Not that this is an Atlanta dance, but I feel the groove. It's funny that about Gary Newman too, because Gary Newman tracks Don't Have Drum Machines. There's a live drummer. Oh, wow. And this beat sounds a little bit like what could have been a Gary Newman beat. That's a really good girl. Gary was sleeping. And then in the bridge we have this beautiful little piano part, which I will play for you now, isolated. This sounds like an entirely different song. It is the classic bridge, which often sounds dropping. Oh, this is the bridge. Okay. Now, I recognize you said the bridge. I was like, what part of this? At a context it does sound like you're right. That's like a totally different song. I mean, like when you don't hear the vocal coming out of the chorus into this, and you're out of the context, you're like, what just happened? We're going to do a new section together. Like, you know, immediately my bridge starts saying, we should write a song that sounds like this, but then you're like, oh, it's the bridge.

41:51And I'm like, oh, yeah, this is the bridge. Yeah, in classic songwriting, like when you're writing a song, the bridge is often the last thing you do, because you start with whatever you start with, and then you've got to, if it was the hook, you've got to write the verse, because the verse you've got to write the hook, writing the second verse is always usually one of the hardest things to do, and then the bridge, which is the goal with the bridge, is to go somewhere different, so you can come back from that place. What you're saying about the bridge makes this to me. Why do you do the second verse is so hard to write? Second verse is often hard. You mean like, lyrically? Lyrically, you're trying to find the next part of the story. And it just so happens that you, this is by the way, my own experience, clue to it, and I'll see for everybody. No, I mean everybody. This is where we get in your head. Yeah, yeah. I think that the second verse sometimes you can get tripped up on. What we have, what we have is working perfectly, you almost don't want to break it. The story flow from the verse into the chorus is usually how the genesis of the idea. And then you've got to decide where the story goes from there. And in the second verse, you know, is there some sort of conclusion? Or are we also getting into the bridge from the verse?

42:52Like all of the pieces fit together like a puzzle. And it's the puzzle that you're determining in real time. How, how, what is it going to look like at the end of the day? I'll say right in the second verse for some of the Sherman songs was like, how can we keep whatever sort of like Joe? We didn't do jockey songs. I think we did songs really well. But like, how do we keep the humor of this thing going without it starting to feel like an eight minute sketch built around one joke? There you go. And I think that's, but, but also that's why story comes into play because I think about for some reason the first song that popped from my head is Copic Abana. Like, no, third verse is when, you know, it's now a disco. Right. You know, and she lost her lover and she lost her mind. So if you have a story that you're telling, you know, that, that, that rule of three actually helps you write the verse. And also I'm coming from the perspective. I'm mostly a track maker and lyrics are secondary to me. I think if you're a pure, pure, in quotes, like lyricist first, then you probably are thinking storytelling as a core part of what your job is, along with the melodic delivery of that song.

43:52I myself struggle sometimes with what the storytelling is. Yeah. Because I do think musically, first and lyrically, secondly. So anyway, just sort of an interesting thing. That is interesting. Yeah. What's the next step of your effort? There's like some little fun things like, we're in the mood for little fun things. If you're in the mood for little fun things, after the bridge, there is a little section where it's slight variations on what you've been hearing. It's just a reversal of the chords. The verse chords just to get musical logical for a second are four, five, three, six. And then the chorus, the chords are four, one, five, six. For a moment after the bridge, you have those verse chords in the chorus. And it sounds like this. But just for a moment. Just for a moment. Just for a variation. Yeah. Five, three, minor three, minor six. Blues, blues. So that's happening, that's just a little variation. And then finally, little fun things on the synths again.

44:53This is tricky playing the track all the way through, like before there is a lyric. Because this is happening in real time. They're all working together. And he's just having little fun bits at the end. And in the context, that's this. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's plain and famous. Woo! Wait, I like that note. What was that? There's a little change. There's a little change. What was that little note at the end? Little chord change, that happens right there. Wait, just that very in again. Little variation. A little melody. I need a 20, 25 remix now. It's cool, right? I've never heard that little change in there. I love that. By the way, make the variation so that across the song where it's so loopy and similar. Yeah. This little change is to vary it up. Speak of loopy, I feel like we're loopy. Speak of loopy. Hey, can you play me that little fun bit again just by itself?

45:54Sure. Oh, that's what you're hearing to beat. It proves our theory about BPM because drum and bass is about... This tempo, it's about this tempo if you just double it up. So when I heard that part, I was like, I can hear the... Right. By the way, chord bass is really hard to imitate with your... Yeah, exactly. That's about as good as you can do. Yeah, yeah. Goong. If you try and hit every note with your hands, you just sound like your... Messing stuff up. I'm playing it again with the drum and bass. So let's do the kick, kick, kick. Yeah. The kick clap, ready? That's the jungle remix. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check. That's the pink panther. Shout out to Adam F. Pink panther ass. Yeah, exactly. The Jay Z section. This is actually a big part of the song's appeal, in my opinion.

46:56Like, Jay Z... When he would co-sign off on your song by giving you a verse, like, that was a big deal back then. Yeah, oh my god, huge. And by the way, as we said earlier, he didn't just co-sign off Rihanna. He signed Rihanna. He was a major reason why she got signed on the first place. And the song starts and you're hearing him. So right out of the... Yes. I've had a gate here listening. Oh, it's a Jay Z song. Absolutely. I'm gonna listen to whatever it is. Can you play a little bit of Jay Z's vocals? I wanna hear the No Clouds and Mistones. And here's Jay Z's verse on umbrella. No Clouds and Mistones. Let it rain out. I just plain in the bank, coming down like a cow Jones. When the clouds come, we go. We rock a fellas. We fly high in weather. And she flies a better. A couple of things. One, if you're gonna do Jay Z at karaoke night, make sure that you know, because he's like... He's weird. He's like Frank Sinatra. Like, it comes out sounding easier than it was. Yeah. I remember one time a friend of mine tried to do Empire State of Mine at karaoke night. Like, his lines, his lyrics don't fall in the natural places.

47:58He's definitely doing some weird... He's rehearsed at home before he shows at karaoke night. He's doing verbal jujitsu on the beat. And that's one of the things that Jay probably didn't get enough credit for. Another thing is that I think I hear an interpolation of UGK's. I got a pocket full of stones. What he says. No Clouds and Mistones. Yeah, just reference. It's just reference. It's just reference. It's for hip hop fans. It's for people like you to notice. It's for people like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he brought that in. That's right. This is one of those songs. This is one of those Jay Z verses. Anybody who's heard it, it's so iconic in the mid-2000s. If he came in on your song, like, people learned it. And he has some of the best cameos and features, specifically on R&B diva songs of all time. We don't need to mention his verse on Crazy in Love. I think everybody at this point has heard it. If not... Chinchilla. Get up. What? The best for. Exactly. I was gonna say, if you haven't heard that one, do that on your own time. I want to play one of the first verses from his career where I realized, oh, this guy's

48:59amazing on the hook. This is Best of Me, Him and Maya. Best of Me. Part 2, Jay Z. Yes, y'all. Jigga Man be ballin. B chick's pigeon toe. Some of them be crawling. Get the best of you. Whenever I put my all in. Have mommy's calling for the law. Darling. I mean, like, she hasn't even started seeing. Yeah, my hasn't even started singing. It is a DJ that, you know, it comes in with that iconic drum break that cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, cat, and then it's yes, y'all and Jigga Man be ballin. Like, he knows how to enter the track. Yeah. And I mean... Get your attention. No clouds in my stones. Like, he's instantly roped you in. Absolutely. I just think that Jay's just, he's got that magic. And I love how he's interacting with Rihanna on the track and, you know, name checking her literally and mentioning the album title. I know. Do we know this was Take Three? Yeah. He says Take Three. Yeah. Well, I found a story about that actually. Oh my gosh. Why don't you share it? There were, there were, there were, there was a different verse originally and at the last minute, Jay's he went in and replaced it and he didn't even, he didn't ask permission.

50:02He didn't need to. No. But a tricky steward later... I'd be still the president of Jeff J. Yeah, I met this time. He can change it even now if he wants to. He can change it. And change it on the spot. He goes and he altars his verse. I found this quote from tricky steward. There was actually another version before the one that ended up on the record, which in tricky steward was, was perfect. And right before it was about to get pressed up, he went and changed it. Nobody even knew he changed it. And at the time, I didn't know when he did it. But now when I go back every once in a while and I listen to the old rap, what he wrote instead makes so much more sense because it sounds like he added the metaphors about the weather and he responded more to the lyrical thoughts in the song. We've all had the weather. In G-Files, the better. Yeah, exactly. That was great. He made it fit and better. So he's also got literally her, her intro sounds. I didn't know what to call them. Cous. They're already entering. And one thing I noticed on this list and because we just listened to the demo is the wiki, wiki is from the dream. The dream. It's from the dream's demo. So we've got all three of them. I'm already so great. The dream. Can I just take a second? Take a step back and just say that I think the dream along with T-Pain, they gave us

51:04so many. Those, just those two guys gave us so many wonderful sort of like, I want to say sugary sweet pop songs, pop rap songs, pop R&B songs in the mid 2000s. I'm such a T-Pain fan, such a the dream fan. I mean, like if you look at the songs the dream has written or collaborated on, it is so many songs that I think will stand the test of time. One song I feel like he does not get a whole lot of love. It's just because it's an album cut. It was actually sampled by Drake for one of his first remixes, but I just want to play a snippet of one of my favorite the dream songs before we move on. This song is called Fancy. This is towards the end of what is, I think, an 11 minute song. I guess a really, Fancy is a really long song. Actually, it might only be about seven minutes, but you know, in the world of R&B, that's a long time. This is just a little bit of the end of the song, Fancy by the dream. One of my favorite moments, check this out. No, no, let's play your roles on every hero. Because even when I used to rock, put on, I will spend seed. I mean, yeah, there's just so much going on there.

52:06I hear a lot of similarity with the keys there. Yeah, the things. So he's probably still working with his guys. So I really just, you know, big fan of the dream. Maybe we can go in that place and do one song, one career with the dream. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. Let's hear Rihanna. By the way, Rihanna, one of the most identifiable voices in R&B and pop, like, you know, between the Patoa, her ability to just really sound just. Her tone is just so sexy. Stokey. Perstinal. Sexy, like she's fantastic. I want to hear some Rihanna vocals. Right. And perfect segue because the song starts with her doing the, like, the barest minimum of a sound, which in 2007, when I'd have been new to a lot of ears, but now all you need to do is hear, eh, eh, eh. Just the sound. Only Rihanna could make that sound, right, distinctively. Well, let's get into the first verse. Here is Rihanna. This is umbrella. Verse one. You have my heart and will never be was a part. Maybe in magazines, but you still be my star.

53:11You can hear the dance hall influences there. You can hear the island influences, not just in a pad 12, but also in how they master her sound. It's definitely got that dance hall. The cadence, yeah, you're right. I totally agree that's well put. It sort of reminds me of that sister Nancy sort of vocal sound. It's when their voices are high. It's like, I always say like most of the greatest rappers of all time with the exception of like, you know, almost all of them have high voices. Whether it's Jay-Z or Drake, like, because if you can go high, then that bass can go really low. And people like that sort of like high low tension. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's well said. Let's continue. Baby, because in the dark, you can't see shiny cars. And that's when you need me there. With you all always share. Because. And I'm sorry to cut it off there. Oh, gosh. I feel like we're going to listen to that. We're going to do that. We're going to do that next time. I just, I love the because as a songwriting thing. Because, yeah, no, that's how you get from the verse to the chorus sometimes.

54:11I've never thought of it. Yes. And then you do it. No, no, seriously, I was going to say the same thing. I had never thought of the because as like a link. Exactly. It's a segue into the chorus. It's such a segue. Because as a result. Yes. Yes, we heard the same thing. You probably think about this for years. I heard it for the first time. Yeah. Well, without further ado, yeah, I'm still in limbo. And now I'm emotionally. Because why because? Why because? When the sunshine was shine together told you I'll be here forever said I'll always be a friend took a note. I must to get out to the end. And before I play the next section, of course, there are backing vocals. I'll stack them so you can hear it with the full beautiful harmonies that are there in the final mix. Now that it's raining more than ever, know that we'll still have each other. You can stand under my umbrella. You can stand under my umbrella. I mean, that's so good.

55:13You play some backing vocals in there. Can we hear just the backing vocals? I'm so glad you asked. I wanted to hear those. I said it too. So I'll start. Here's the first backing vocal by itself. We shine together. Be here forever. And there's a second backing vocal with a harmony. And that sounds like this. Shine together. Here forever. And together. I like that lower one. Yeah. The two of those together harmonize like this. We shine together. Be here forever. And then when you add the lead, we get the full stack. I wish shine together. Told you I'll be here forever said I'll always be a friend. It's so good. It's so good. And you know, admittedly, there's so much on the vocals so that when it's coming out of the speaker into like, you know, a dark cavernous club like I used to do, it just bounces off the walls perfectly. Yeah. Her voice just like cuts through everything. I'd love to hear the bridge. It's sort of like the part. If you're DJing like a busy nightclub, you don't always get to this bridge, but the bridge

56:16is pretty sweet. Can you play something off the bridge? Let's do that. And as I was saying before, from a songwriting perspective, think about this. The bridge is the opportunity to go somewhere different so that you can return and it'll sound fresh again, of course, which is what after this section takes us to the end of the song. Here is the bridge, Rihanna, isolated vocals, umbrella. So I'm gonna let the ring pull around me all you need and oh, because it takes us out of the bridge. Because. Yeah, it's a good. It's a good, what would we call that? To segue or a transition, yeah. Segway transition. It's so good. I mean, like, just epic. It's so epic. And I was feeling goosebumps even though we weren't hearing the music, but knowing what the music was doing in that section, I'll just play that part with a little bit of the music underneath it. So you can hear, you can have the full satisfaction of what happens when she sings that long note. So epic.

57:19I mean, that's amazing. I love that transition out of the bridge. It's just so epic. And speaking of transitions, so what I did there, I just want to say a little bit, and I though you do too, about some of the songs that she sampled along the way, some of the interpolations that she sampled along the way. Yeah, talk about it. Let's talk about some Rihanna sampling and interpolation. All right. So let's get started with another track from Good Girl Gone Bad, the same record as umbrella. This is Don't Stop the Music, which sounds a little bit like this. And in the background, you're obviously hearing a sample. Yeah. And the sample is in an interpolation. In the background, I'm hearing a sample. And later in the song, she's also interpolating. Absolutely. And it's of this Michael Jackson song from Thriller. Who? It's this gentleman called Michael Jackson.

58:21Wow. Some people called him Mike. Okay, maybe related to Randy Jackson listening. He could be one of Tito's brothers here. Want to be starting something from Thriller, 1982. So that little loop there is sampled in the background. So this is one of those songs where there's a sample and an interpolation of the same song. You know, from a songwriting, from a money perspective, maybe there's something because once you've sampled, you're already paying both the master and publishing sides. You might as well throw an interpolation in the mix. And here is where it happens in Don't Stop the Music. Bye Rihanna. All right. So by the way, even the Michael Jackson is an interpolation. I was going to say the story doesn't end there. Right. Because as we both know as disco fans, one of the first technically disco songs according to some certainly was played at some of the loft in the earliest disco experiences is

59:22the 1972 Manu De Vango song, Soul Makosa. Which is technically not the same lyrics and there's not a melody happening in that. He's just, that's monotone. But it was enough for there to be some court cases and some payment. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, which I can tell you very quickly about. So Michael Jackson basically put out, want to be starting something just without clearing anything. And I think that's not there because it probably may be in Quincy and Mike's mind. They're like, you know, this is influenced by, but we did something different. I'm a same. I'm a Samamakusa. There's different phonemes. I also think that you're a lady. Let's just be real early 80s. That's true. Nobody was, especially, they really weren't thinking about sampling. And I think people just liberally borrowed from one another. There was a sense of like, there was a sense of like musical language and building blocks. We're all sharing the same notes. We're all sharing similar ideas. So sometimes you use my chord change. Sometimes I use your melody.

1:00:22There is a little bit going on in this era, which by the way, I think is healthy. I don't mind that. I don't mind that. However, in 2009, DeBongo did file a lawsuit against both of his songs. He waited some time. He waited some time. He may not have known or it may have just been too big of a hit to ignore. 2009, that's a weird year to go after the Jackson's take because that's the year he dies. So anyone looking at the credits might know it is that Michael Jackson is credited as a writer. Undone, stop the music, but DeBongo is not credited. What happened is that in 2009, DeBongo filed a lawsuit in a French court against both songs. He said they both used his hook without permission. Jackson admitted that he did. He said, yeah, you're right. I did. And they settled out a court. And apparently, Rihanna had asked Jackson for permission, Jackson gave permission, but didn't mention the source of his interpolation. Apparently, he didn't make it all the way to the end of the line here with the publishers, which somebody should have done. Basically, the way this whole situation ends is that it turns out this sort of a technicality.

1:01:23One French judge said that DeBongo's claim was inadmissible against Rihanna because a year earlier, a different French judge had required the record label to actually add his name in the credits. I don't want to overly complicate things, but the bottom line is that because it sounds like DeBongo was like, oh, yeah, you're putting my name in the credits. I'm done. I'm withdrawing any legal action. He couldn't do it again. He couldn't like refile for it. There's a little bit in the weeds, but all this to say that DeBongo's soul moccosa is the source for both want to be starting something by Michael Jackson's refrain, as well as don't stop the music, but he's only getting credit and he only got paid for the Michael Jackson one. That's the world of publishing and royalties and clearance for you. It's crazy. It's all over the world. That's really fascinating, but now all I can think of is, please don't sue me, mano. Please don't sue me, mano. Feel free to use that. I won't sue anybody over use of that. I got to say, it's very cool that Rihanna can call up MJ and just be like, hey, can I

1:02:26use that part of your song? I just think she's the coolest woman on the planet. I feel like she's caught up in just cool stuff. For example, back when I thought I was the only person who was really into Taiman Pala, she made this song and it still blows my mind. This is Sam Old Mistakes. So that's Sam Old Mistakes and it samples this song from Taiman Pala, New Person Sam Old Mistakes. It's just a straight up. She's basically singing over his song. It's a cover. It's interesting. It's like a rhythm. It's literally like she took the track from Taiman Pala.

1:03:27She took the track and made it a rhythm. Absolutely. She used the rhythm and sang over it. It's classic Caribbean form. She's Bayesian Najamecan, but that's part of that culture. By the way, I think I should do this more often. They should take some of these instrumental songs and electronic music and just sing over them. I mean, they're basically like a producer real like, hey, why don't you sing over this? I think if good music, I think the idea of reusing it in other ways and extending the life of it and creating a musical dialogue, I mean, we talk about that a lot in the show. I love that phenomenon. I think you don't need to just start from scratch every time for it to be creatively. Absolutely. You know, authentic. I can't think of two more cooler people than Rihanna and Taiman Pala. Pretty much the pinnacle of cool. That's the pinnacle. You have another song for us. I do. Now, you might be familiar with this other hit from Good Girl Gone Bad. This song is called Shut Up and Drive. You know this song, right? You know that?

1:04:27That's a... Is that a reminder, right? It is definitely Blue Monday. Yeah. Blue Monday by New Order, which sounds like this. Oh, does it feel like you do? Right. Right. So New Order, Blue Monday, and it's the chord changes. It's on a sample. It's everyone altogether. Everyone in podcast land, one, two, three, interpolation. There you go. We got the chord changes and we got the melody from New Order's Blue Monday. And all four of them. It's not a sample, because they're gone. Not a sample. Not a sample. Not a sample. Taking from the master track. That's exactly right. It's not the recording. It's the co-writing credits on Shut Up and Drive from that reuse. Very cool. Anytime you start playing Blue Monday, it just feels so wrong to cut it short. It's such a hit song. You've got to hear the whole thing. You've got to hear the whole thing. Seven minutes. Yeah. Exactly. So, like we said, Umbrella was a massive global hit for Rihanna. Looking back, how do you think it changed Rihanna's career?

1:05:27I mean, after Umbrella, nothing was the same. Yes. You know, absolutely. Absolutely. And after this, she's, you know, I mean, like, let's just talk about Fenty. It's important to remember that Rihanna is a billionaire. Yeah. She's in the billionaire club. She's one of those brand, one name, brand, artists. And, you know, Fenty fashion line, those outrageous, really, really cool, you know, fashion shows that come along and sort of like take over the screens in my house for about a month after they come out. You know, she embraced a level of superstardom. And also, she did it her way because if you look at how she has sort of stayed out of the public eye in a lot of ways, you know, you know, she was going to ask you about that. That's like a, like a, like a decision like a smart decision, like a decision. It's so clearly a decision, you know, she's saving her sanity and her family, protecting her life outside of the public eye. And now she's got kids, I mean, like, you know, so, you know, she, and by the way, props to her for doing the Super Bowl while pregnant.

1:06:28I feel like the same way that she's always been very particular with her sound in her music. She's been very particular about her public image and what she's willing to put out there. She's not, she's just not one of those people who puts it all out there for everyone to see. There's a lot of mystery. Yeah. There's a lot of time in between, you know, music being released. Will we get another record? I don't know, you know, maybe maybe she's, maybe she's tired of doing music. I guess we'll have to see. All right. Now, earlier, we touched on the idea of how this song was originally meant for Britney Spears and Mary J. Blige was also offered the song, which is just crazy. I mean, like, I don't even think either of them necessarily heard it. Yeah, we don't know that they actually heard it too rejected. But, man, I mean, Mary J. Blige, Britney Spears, we'll never know what those versions of umbrella would have sounded like until today. Hellboy. With the help of artificial intelligence and our producer, Matt. Yes. Prior to this taping, Matt worked with the robots known as AI. AI. Very technical here.

1:07:29How listen to the robots to create a version of umbrella with vocals by Britney Spears. Luxury and I have not heard this before. We're going to be hearing it for the first time when I hit play. We are so looking forward to hearing when I'm sure is an improvement on the Rihanna. Let's see. That's the JZ. First of all, I think the real life Britney could probably rap a little better than this. Well, it's hilarious because it's obviously trained on her like, rassy, pretty funny. Yeah, she's like, no, a glass of the sexy. It's like trained on those moments from her songs. So it's like, rap is set around like not every person on the track is Britney Spears. So they're just like, they get all Britney. Let's hear some singing. She sounds like she's falling asleep.

1:08:31I mean, you can almost see, you can almost hear Britney's song in there. Sure. I mean, it's funny. Again, this is just an AI thing, not a Britney thing. AI is trained on the songs, different algorithms, different things. They found the sleepy parts of her material because I feel like she's about to fall asleep. I was hoping in the chorus she'd wake up, but it was just like, when the sound shot, it was very sleepy. That's a very low energy. That's really interesting. It was very interesting though. Oh, by the way, here's the Mary J. Blige version. Oh, by the way. I'll say AI, this is probably going to seem like, yeah, no. It doesn't nail the personality of these singers. No, you know, the uncanny valley, you know, that idea. It's so uncanny valley. It's like so life like that it dips and is extremely not human sounding.

1:09:33Well, not just that, yeah, technically it doesn't sound like people, but also. There's no person on that track. It's having something that's supposed to sound like Mary J. Blige, but it's singing the song like Rihanna saying it. Like I would just imagine that Mary would have different riffs that she would go for. She would just do it differently. Yeah, the way she would phrase it or inspiration, like all the choices would be different, just normally, but that's just a human distinction between singers. Like the difference is super noticeable and strange, because Mary wouldn't normally sound like that. Make those choices we're hearing. No, not at all. Mary J. Brini, your jobs are safe. Yeah, you guys are fine. Your jobs are safe. Okay, it's time for one more song. This is where we share a new song with you, the one song nation and with each other. For my one more song, I have selected Kingdom Hearts Key. That is by Jay Pegmaphia and Danny Brown. And it's featuring Red Veil. I'll say something about it on the other side. Here it is Kingdom Hearts Key.

1:10:34I mean, first off, the sampling of this song is insane. I had no idea where that beat was going to go. Yeah, I liked you being lost before it. Well, first off, we can only play a certain amount of a song before we can't play the whole song here. And check out this song. It's got so many time signature changes. Okay, so that was just one part of confusion. It's going all over the map. The samples, they're sampling video games. They're sampling. I'm probably going to butcher a name, but it's, I think it's my Sakamoto. And this song called No Need for Promises. Yeah, they've got video game samples, obscure Japanese artists. Well, from the American point of view of obscure. To us. And yeah, and it's got so many different, you know, like I said, time signature changes. But trust me, if you listen to this song, it will get stuck in your head.

1:11:36There are times I'm just walking about my day and I'm just like hearing that sample playing over and over in my head. So I felt like I had to choose it. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing it. Luxury, what's your pick? Well, this week is one of those one more songs, which is one of my own songs, because I just dropped a new single. It's called Strangely Familiar. What if the fun of this song for me is in tandem with our whole conversation about Jamaica and reusing rhythms? I had a project where I decided I wanted to have a song where the vocal, I would essentially remix my own song, but like it would be a new song. So this is the same lyrics. Did you clear it? Did you clear it with yourself? I cleared it. I'm not clear. Oh, you know, I'm in trouble now. I am snitching on myself. I need to sign the paperwork. No, of course, it's cleared with myself. I am an independent artist, and I decided that, yeah, Strangely Familiar is a brand new composition by Luxury. And it sounds like this. Are you ready? All right, you're driving a car very fast right now. You know what I just realized?

1:12:48I can play the whole thing because I do have the right to clear it. So the next five minutes, we're just going to play my entire song. There you go. But that track was inspired. I really like it. Thank you very much. That track is inspired, obviously, by George E. Moroder. One of my heroes, the king of 16th note pummeling synthesizers. Interesting thing about this track, by the way, is I completed this and put it out, you know, uploaded it to the internet a few months ago, and then the new justice track came out, and it's doing a similar thing, kind of going back to that Moroder 16th note pummeling thing. Their track is very different. It's very good. Go check it out. But it's just interesting. Maybe this Moroder vibe is in the air right now. Just 16th note. Boom, boom, boom. I love it. It's a DPM. I always called it like a galloping bass. Like it's like, yeah, I really like that song. Thank you so much, my friend. As always, if you have an idea for one more song, you can find us on Instagram or TikTok. And if you made it this far into the show, I think that means you probably like the podcast. So please don't forget to give it a go. But we'll take hate listeners too. Well, listen, no matter what your emotional state is, please don't forget to give us five stars or whatever platform you listened on.

1:13:49Leave a review and share it with someone you think would like it. It really helps keep the podcast going. Luxury, help me in this thing. I'm producer DJ, songwriter, and musicologist. Brussells clean up nicely at Sweet Green. Maple glazed, roasted, and edges perfectly caramelized. Sweet Green's Fall Harvest is back on the menu. And the season's most overlooked little green vegetable is dressed to be devoured. You know what to do. Order on the Sweet Green app. Close your eyes, exhale, fill your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1,800 contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.