Ridley Scott and the Takeover of Alien: Romulus 2

0:00This is Belie, one network, every topic, everywhere. The Maybe you're feeling it now. When? Mother says the crew's life don't matter. Only the bounty matters. When you hear the spirit, and all you can do is save yourself. We'll move in pairs, we'll go step by step and cut off every bulkhead and every vent. Until we have a cornered and then we'll blow it the fuck out into space. Is that acceptable to you? I surmise to feel my oxygen to keep my life. For what purpose I do not know.

1:00So I hear the fuck you? I'm an NDT 55 wearing the Etonis Infertic. I usually put from mining and safety tasks. You guys can't be under. That's great. That's just fucking great man. That was the fuck we supposed to do. We're some real pretty shit now man. Boss! Get off! Get off! Welcome to Perfect Organism, the aliens like a podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Prater. I'm joined by my cohosts. Patrick Green. Micah Green. Kyle June. Welcome to the show everyone. We are a little bit short on our team. We thought there'd be more people here tonight. For whatever reason things came up. But we have quite the show for you tonight. This is an unusual time and an unusual day. It's not typical for us, but we felt like we needed to cover this. We are here to discuss essentially the caption is Ridley Scott's takeover of Alien Romulus 2.

2:03It's a little bit salacious, but you know, got to what you got to do. But we're going to go down with Jamie's doing with that. Yeah, you got to attract attention somehow. But we're going to go through in a kind of a forensic way, the timeline from the release of Romulus up to where we are today. And then we're going to have a conversation about that at the end. But before we do that, I'm going to hand it over to Patrick. Do you know what I mean? I'm going to hand it over to Patrick. Do those veterans. I lost the window that they were in. Give me one second. Like the lost patrons. The lost patrons. I got lost no more. Okay. Let's go back a little bit. We got Zachary Eastern Larry Wood, Nick Tonga, big hippies, Stefan Kolderong, Chase Pacquan, Patrick Smith, and Eric Borden, our newest member who's also a producer. If you want to join them, go to perfect organism.com slash support or search for us on Patreon. We are about to record a Spider-Man brand new day episode, which we're really excited about. More episodes of Game Rate coming and O'Kyle and I and Jamie have been talking about doing more sublime noise episodes and things.

3:03So there's a lot of a lot of cool stuff coming on the pipeline. If you want to join and you get ad free listening to every single episode of the show. And Micah is going to read a review for us from Apple Podcast Australia. And please, before she reads that review, everybody watching this listening to this, if you could subscribe to our channel, we're really trying to focus on that right now and grow this channel. It's where a lot of our attention is going at the moment. And YouTube. Yeah. What did I say? I think you just said channel. Oh, this is the YouTube channel. I thought I said feature something. Yes, on YouTube. So please take the time and I'll give it to Micah. Awesome. So we got this review. It says, best regularly released podcast related to the alien franchise. You are going to find with lots of content and all bases covered. And that comes to us from Australia Apple Podcast storefront. No, it was anonymous from there, but pretty much blanket praise. And I really appreciate that from all the way from Australia.

4:06Absolutely. Thank you. There's a separate Australian storefront for Apple Podcast. They're separate Australia. Apparently, I didn't know that. Yeah, all over the world, they're separate storefront. They're all told is separate. Yeah, I was just looking into that today because I was doing all this work for this episode. Just imagine like how many reviews there might be out there that we don't even know we could maybe have. I'm talking to you. Or it's organizing. Yeah, I'm not going to do another shit show so that we can read the bad reviews. We do. Oh, my God. We've got to do like a shit show. We have to do in a sublime noise because Patrick has like all this time. Very, very free time. I've recorded and scrubs. I haven't even had chance to change. Oh, you are in scrubs. I just realized that's a good show. These are not the ones in the OR though because those are separate. These are the ones you see. You cannot take the OR one's home. No, mine were covered in bone matter today. So that would not have been radical. Oh, radical. I do think it's kind of funny that like I have a real like phobia of like hospitals and blood and that kind of stuff. And that put Patrick getting into.

5:06He loves it. Yeah, I feel like you're surrounded by people in the medical field too. Like you got a lot of people in your life. I'm sure my aunt is all going to end with Jamie becoming a doctor. Full doctor. All going to be and with Jamie. Promise surgeon. Dr. Prader sounds fainted. It does sound good. Dr. Prader. Like I trust Dr. Prader. Like you know, I talk to green too. You know, like Dr. Prader. I was saying, Dr. Green is great. Oh, Dr. Green is a character on ER. Yeah. And also is your dad and also my dad. Oh, by the way, in Manchester, in the village, in the city center, there's this tavern called King Green. I think that's a chain because there's a couple of those. Is it? And then yeah, there's one in Oxford too. That even my phone. Our English listeners can give us a rating on the English storefront. I think it's called King Green. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, let us continue. So we are here to discuss essentially Ridley Scott's involvement and controversial involvement.

6:06I suppose with the next alien film. But before we even get into that discussion, we want to go through the timeline. And we have, I created a document, thanks to a little bit of AI earlier today, with the entire timeline. So I felt like we'll just go down the line. I'll start Patrick Micah. You got to. I will all just take a bullet point. Okay. Cool. And I want to say before we go, how insufferable really is being about like, everything, like on every, I feel like every press store that he's had. For the last like, I don't know, a couple of decades has been increasingly like worse received. And this one for dog stars is like just, I mean, he's just saying the meanest stuff about so many people. And yeah, you know, I have very often in my life been an apologist for his baby or because I've given him a lot of passes. But I'm kind of done with that at this point. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, and it's interesting that dog stars is his worst reviewed and lowest rated.

7:07Seven million dollars. The funny thing is the funny thing is the some of the controversy around the recasting of Jacob Lorty or essentially what's his name? Not Jacob Lorty, but the guy from gladiators to Paul Muskel. Yeah, Paul Muskel. He was supposed to be in the title, you know, the the star of the dog stars. And supposedly there was like, um, schedule conflicts. But really the truth is, yeah, you wasn't masculine enough. According to Scott, like what? What an asshole. Like why does he say this stuff? Yeah, the dog starts tanked anyway. So that's disgusting. Anyway, anyway, anyway, I just want to say I feel like each like thing that comes out recently, they pick a more and more smug photo of him to be like the photo on the article. He's like, yeah, so ridiculous. Yeah. All right. So here, here we go in our timeline. So this is probably going to take four or five minutes for us to get through.

8:07But again, it's just really important that everything that we're talking about is based off is based in some kind of fact or official reporting or solid rumor enough that it gained traction. So I'll start first one August 24th August 2024, Alien, Romance's release the film becomes substantial a substantial theatrical success ultimately grossing roughly 350 million worldwide. Ridley's got his publicly supportive of a Fed, a Alvarez in the film describing Fed as a new surge of energy for the franchise and saying he hopes Fed has another alien movie in him. And then also in August of 2024, Fed begins talking about rain and Andy's future, almost immediately Alvarez confirms that he and the co-writer, Rodo Sayegas, have ideas for what happens if rain and Andy actually reach Ivaga at this stage. However, Fed says he doesn't want to rush into a sequel simply because Romulus was successful in October 2024. 20th century studios confirms that Romulus 2 is being developed. Studio president Steve Asbel says they're working on a sequel idea now.

9:10And when asked about Fed, Asbel acknowledges that his deal isn't technically finished, but says we are going to close it and that we are going to is in quotes. Asbel specifically talks about wanting to continue the story of rain and Andy. Late 2024 into early 2025, Fed and Rodo developed the sequel. Fed increasingly talks about aliens somewhere new rather than repeat a taking alien somewhere new rather than repeating the familiar imagery and situations of Romulus. He describes the sequel as an opportunity to enter quote unquote uncharted waters. In February of 2025, Fed is certainly sounds like he's directing it. Alvarez publicly says I think the sequel is my next movie. He also says that he hopes to shoot it that year. By June of 2025, Romulus 2 appears to be moving full steam ahead. Fed says the films in pre-production and there are plans to begin shooting around October 2025. Yeah, I remember that. We're in mid-20. Then September 2025 and then everything changes. Alvarez suddenly announces that he will not direct the sequel.

10:17He and Rodo have completed the screenplay, but Fed says he's going to pass the torch quote unquote and produce alongside really Scott while they search for another director, which we have covered a lot actually here on the podcast. In September 2025 as well, David Reuters began industry insider Jeff Snyder floats a much more complicated explanation for Fed is departure. Alvarez allegedly wanted Michael fast vendors David and Romulus to corny to Snyder's version of events with the Scott objected because Scott potentially wanted to return to alien himself and wanted to be the filmmaker who brought David back. This remains on confirm reporting though. In late 2025, the search begins for Fed is replacement a quiet place day one and big director Michael Sarnoski becomes associated with the project later reporting suggests that ultimately it goes nowhere Sebastian. I'll just say Vanisak or Vanachack maybe director of evil dead burn is also reportedly approach but that doesn't materialize either.

11:19May of 2026 perfect organism receives its own information about David. So this is where our own reporting enters into the timeline a source close to Fed. Alvarez and a friend of perfect organism informs us that Michael fast vendors David was indeed included in fed a and Roto screenplay for alien Romulus to. According to our source fed a personally shared the screenplay with fast vendor fast vendor was on board to return and really Scott subsequently intervened and refused to allow David to be used to Fed a sequel. We were told this in May of 2026 before much of the later reporting that would publicly repeat significant portions of the story. We have not independently verified those details with Alvarez fast vendors Scott or 20th century so this should remain identified as information from a trusted source rather than established fact. And that's something you know in a lot of us to keep in mind that a lot of this is not one is not totally like objective. Approvable but it's a lot of it is seems to be June 2026 Brian Duffield suddenly enters the picture Jeff Snyder reports the filmmaker Brian Duffield writer and director of no one will save you.

12:22And the upcoming whale fall is quietly working on an alien movie for 20th century studios insider Daniel Richmond subsequently reports on the same thing at Duffield isn't a random choice. Duffield already has a substantial relationship with 20th century he may no one will save you with the studio wrote and directed whale fall co wrote underwater and has described Steve as Bell is a close friend as Bell himself has recently been extremely enthusiastic about well fall. No more said use a signal to the as well then response to Duffield to the Duffield remember very Steve as Bell way the president of 20th century studios quote tweets the report about Duffield with one word. Considering as Bell knows Duffield personally has produced distributed multiple films involving him film stories reasonably interprets this as sarcasm rather than anything resembling a serious denial. So the big question becomes then what is Duffield writing there are first off I want to say the whale fall trailer is not look good to me I'm going to throw it out there. It looks interesting.

13:22We kind of laughed at it a little bit. It's not a knock on him. I just feel like the concept is so weird, but I'm 100% going to watch that movie because I think he's a really good director and I'm sure it's like Jonah. Yeah. I know what I've seen. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. Yeah, watch the content. It's just it's like exactly what the plot summary says it is. It is like this dude who's in a whale for a long time. Yeah, I bet it'll be good. I bet it'll be good anyway. Cool. The question becomes what's Duffield writing there are two possibilities circulating that Duffield has been brought into rewrite or redeveloped FedEx and Roto's Romulus 2 or that Duffield is developing an entirely separate alien movie. There has still been no official clarification from 20th century. Then in July on the 31st of 2026 reports claim that Romulus 2 is dead. World of real reports that FedA sequel has been indefinitely shelved and here is where things get particularly interesting.

14:22That report independently contains essentially the same story perfect organism heard in May that FedA wanted David fastbender was effectively on board but Scott refused to allow David to appear because he wanted control over the characters return. The same report says Duffield is working on a different alien movie. World of real claims that Duffield's project is separate and will distance itself somewhat from Romulus. That distinction has not been officially confirmed by 20th century. August 1st, 2026 Steve Asbestos, Romulus 2 is not dead responding directly to the report that the sequel had been shelved. Asbestos gives another wonderfully economical answer. Nope. And here's a tiny detail worth mentioning. Brian Duffield retweets as Bell's denial given the existing reports about Duffield working on an alien film that's intriguing, although it doesn't tell us what it's actually writing, although it does in my opinion like they're talking they know what's happening. August of 2026, a little bit later in the month, really Scott starts talking about David again.

15:25I pause because I was like thinking about what you're thinking about and I think I know what you're thinking about. Ridley Scott starts talking about David again. Scott publicly reveals that he has ideas about continuing the story after alien covenant and keep in mind this is now officially on the dark stories press tour. So this is like Ridley just like taking comes all over every interview. The public reveals that he has ideas about continuing the story after alien covenant specifically involving what happened to David after leaving Oregon six behind. And then on August 28th, 2026 Ridley drops the bomb Scott says he's now actively involved with the next alien movie and declares I suddenly went back and got involved. He characterizes alien Romulus as merely okay and says the franchise needs some help and he adds so I've gone back in reporting subsequently describes Scott as rewriting the next alien film. There we have it. Everyone's interested in all of our resources for all of that material.

16:25I have a whole resource document that will give you links and everything and I just think it's important that we have like sources. One caveat, I guess someone messaged us on Instagram stating that they think they believe that Scott was referring to alien earth as being just okay. He said the last alien thing but that to me doesn't make sense. He wasn't involved in alien earth at all except for in name only and producer title only. I think it's pretty clear to me that he's talking about alien Romulus, but I also think it's important that perhaps he was talking about alien earth just to throw that out there for the sake of balance. But I do think it's fairly obvious what he's talking about. Yeah and he's talking about a movie in particular so I think that's yes. Yeah and I just for fact checking purposes they never actually went to orgasics and the in covenant that was planted. Yeah so just yeah I know I said after they left the orgasics but it was actually. They never made it for that they yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

17:26Because you know we're going to get some batteries on the state of Polynesia storefront for apple podcast. I'm excited to find all these storefronts and see what people are saying. Anyway yeah that's a lot for a film. But what what Brian's my gears is that Romulus was a hit you know like we finally got a true like it was received well it made a lot of money. It was shot like it was delivered like you know under budget and on time and and it you know pleased fans it wasn't perfect like it wasn't like regarded as a necessarily a masterpiece. But it's become plenty of people's favorite Alien movie like I talked to people a lot they're like a Romulus got me into the to the series you know Romulus was a was a big deal and it did really well. And you all of us to varying degrees have a lot of love for that film. And and yet here we are now years away from it with even less of an idea of like what's actually going to happen. And it's again this issue where like at the studio seems completely clueless about how to shepherd something that feels like it should be such an easy proposition like an alien movie is a pretty simple thing at its heart you know what I mean just like tell a story give us good characters.

18:37Like take us into space like you know it's it's it's pretty basic and and yet we have a movie that did that and and made money and yet here we are now and there's all the shuffling going on in the background and it really makes me feel. I part of what might have been happening for longer than we realize is really behind the scenes like there's a lot of bad blood in fandom with really that stems from the whole Blomkamp situation. You know I was never a ball on camp a ball just as I made really clear on this. I never wanted that movie to be made I never wanted to like you know bring rippling back into all that stuff but I did you know have a lot of respect for him as a as a filmmaker in a lot of ways and you know I'm sure it would have been interesting to see what he did with it. But you know really really just like you know took his balls out and dumped them on his face. Okay. That was an image that I can't. And and and and it's happening again and like like I mean one more do you want than Fetty operas like the guy is like humble enthusiastic really really talented passionate.

19:43It's literally a huge nerd about alien like specifically he's one of the most perfect directors we could have asked for. Yeah to continue one of the few that I think that I would like yeah like this is the guy like we've talked all I know I was even about the other directors I could do it but like he was genuinely invested in what he was doing. Yeah and he delivered something that was successful. Yes on top of that. Yeah. The irony here I think is you know when I was in film school back in the last century when the dinosaur is running here. Yes when I took a screenwriting class they were talking about like movie development and development hell when films go and development hell know what movie they used alien three and they gave us five to six different scripts to essentially not read every one of them but go over them and they just went into the development hell valiant three and I just think here we are again in 2026 you know 33 years later after the release of alien three.

20:46And the IP has been passed to the new owners which is Disney and they're experiencing the same things there's people getting involved people shutting things down like I feel like alien can't catch a break and even though we all have varying opinions on Romulus or alien earth or resurrection or the prequels I think what we can agree on is that we've had these studios and you're just fucking this up left and right I probably I would say and I don't even so mean. Like fucking it up like we're getting shitty things I'm not saying that alien earth is shitty actually probably say the alien earth was able to be made without studio interference. No holly has a good enough pedigree they're like go do your thing and he did it whether we like it or not as a different thing but it was able to move through easily and probably even the creation of Romulus to some degree also moved through the system pretty easily. However there was even contention during that were federal alvarez went on record stating that every note Ridley Scott gave him for Romulus he adhered to and this isn't a podcast episode to bash Ridley Scott however there is criticism warranted here another little bit of information from a source of ours who is close to the studio in Budapest where alien Romulus shot the office for a this follow up to alien Romulus was always on the way.

22:09The first alien Romulus was opened it was set up teams were being gathered to start building sets and then it shut down mysteriously we also know that some of the talent involved some of the conceptual designers involved were already working already working on this thing it was the ball was rolling the train had left the station and then it all stopped so that's not typical usually when that happens it's because someone's come in and said no and I think it's fairly obvious that that someone is Ridley Scott. And it's just contrasted so perfectly today with footage of the making of alien earth season two which is the most important thing to do is to get rid of the alien earth season two. And it's just contrasted so perfectly today with footage of the making of alien earth season two which is already well into production and like there's sets and they're filming and it looks like they're having a great time.

23:14And I'm like that's exciting. Like why can't Romulus to be having that to I think it's because really you know thinks himself as the king of the alien franchise on film you know he's like this is this is my baby and you know like his comments that were just so demeaning about how like nobody's directed a better alien film that he has has a still considered the best. I'm like dude you're 88 years old and you're still acting like this like come on. No one's trying to take it away from him either that the fact that alien is obviously a masterpiece yeah so I don't think it doesn't just giving other people chance to take control you know. But you look at his career and you really see it's like you know he'll do like a masterpiece and then like five to 10 years of like really middleing work and then a masterpiece and then five to 10 years of middleing work his last masterpiece in my opinion was last dual which I've stood by as being like I check it to masterpiece I do yeah really I haven't I the subject matters really difficult for me. I think it's a masterpiece but I would say that right film in my opinion his last masterpiece that I've seen was the king of heaven no the kingdom of heaven on the director's cut just gorgeous like incredible score acting characters everything was amazing that's before right something like that yeah 2000 2004 2007 something like that but I did love the Martian I thought it was great fun.

24:38And I think by most metrics that was that was a extreme I mean it was one Academy Award you know it was a huge hit you know I think Bradley is very script dependent like if he has a really airtight script to work from he can make a film that is is majestic you look at his background like he you know he cut his teeth shooting you know BBC work and commercial work and things like that and you know shooting scripts and bringing them to life with really good visuals. I think that like what's what's happening with him in his later career is he's no longer. I just getting scripts from people who are really good and kind of remove from him and then interpreting them he's he's like got all this weird editorial control over everything now. And the studio has completely given it to him acquiesce yeah yeah this the studio is very much behind this. And I understand why but I think that it's it's it's miss place because of course as everybody who's listening to this and everybody's in the chat which by the way is up to the mid 40s of people right now it's amazing.

25:39And we'll definitely get your comments in your in a bit you know we all know that like alien is Daniel band and right alien is Daniel band and run cob HR Geeger. And really Scott and other there's a lot of people who managed to create that original film and set the template and really for whatever reason due to his success and his you know station in Hollywood has gone on to assume that he's the soul flag there for it for some glimmer of hope here perhaps i'm wondering how this will go if. Brian doffield is actually involved because I did like no one will say a view i think he is a good screenwriter and director that was a smart. film about an alien invasion that felt unique if the script is in the right if like if that script gets to ridley then maybe it's in okay hands because obviously we know all will agree Ridley Scott like when he has a goods like a very strong script. He always delivers strong visuals the visual out of his films are fat is profound so like i don't think that's the issue i think it is what everyone saying is the script right so.

26:43doffield gets it and even like i know underwater did well you know for it's very premature i short release that i say because of covid but like. For what it was i was like profoundly surprised how good it was you know i'm and then i found out he actually you know was part of that right it screenwriting of that so that makes sense so. The i think doffield is aware of these dynamics right now like he's not like he's a not stupid person like he's he's he's he's the writing on the wall that's going on so i'm sure he's trying to write something meaningful so if it is going to be this. You know i i don't think that Ridley Scott will not deliver if he has something good and i. Not like a optimist towards like most things at times but. Maybe this will be okay you know i'm who knows though you know and i'm. I have a lot of other thoughts on this but i want to make sure we get through everything to and seeing a lot in the chat something that i was thinking as we were talking which is why can't there be two. I mean clearly there's a very large fan base even i'm not just people who are obsessed with alien people who are obsessed with sci fi we've got like obviously people who are into the predator and everything like that it's.

27:56Maybe it's too risky to think of doing to but i just i'm unsure and it sounds like a lot of people in the chat or saying like it would be really amazing if we could get both where really gets to finish is trilogy to what he wants. But yet there still are opportunities for new people to come and bring further life into the franchise and i i think that's where we get stuck sometimes with. Big figures like Ridley like he's obviously solidified himself for good reasons no one's saying that he hasn't but sometimes that can become a stick in the mud to prevent other people from growing and. Really being able to take control creatively and take it to different places which is at the end of the day what everybody wants i think it might be now. Did you know i feel like you're out of the authority over this but like the release cycle of films you know it's like how often can film be like how often can an alien film be released should be an alien film every two years you know what i mean like or whatever in that trajectory but i know i don't know if it's a pacing thing from a musical standpoint like.

29:04Yeah like bands used to release artists you would release like two albums a year like back in the 60s and 70s especially like the Beatles or someone but like. That has kind of changed with film besides maybe in the MCU now but like i don't know if that has something to do with you also because it's such an investment but i. I don't know but i don't know if you like i'm Jamie i'm assuming you might know more about those well the only thing that i know for sure well. As much as i can know is that is neat can be cheap does he doesn't want to spend a lot of money and i can imagine disney has let's just say season two of a late earth i would imagine that's going to be at least another hundred and sixty million dollars i think season one was a hundred eighty million or more something like that or two hundred million was it two twenty five something like that get a lot of money. And i know that there is reporting that season two was going to be skilled back a little bit but i can also see from disney's angle and they. Even him rich money in fact actually because of. You know spider man the last spider man that made two billion dollars over two billion dollars i mean broke box office records and then.

30:11You have to story disney's making some money but disney historically doesn't like to spend money either they're cheap. And so disney i can imagine them not wanting to make a show and a film at the same time and they have money going into isolation to their creative assembly isn't making that off their own dime they're making it because the studio wants them to make it so i would imagine i again i'm not an expert on nothing in terms of how that works in the finances. But the ip is owned by disney disney is going to want something made disney is going to have something made and they're going to get the investments there so they have. Alien isolation coming out let's just say the end of the year who knows maybe it's next year and then you have alien earth season two coming out. Probably fall of 2027 and then you have another alien film there so that's a lot of money but at the same time. Alien has proven because of Romulus it can be successful and even as much as I have many issues with alien earth. But all regards it was a success for them it was the most watch show in who lose history hands down aliens is a success.

31:19I think what i'm trying to wrap my head around is how the balls fumbled over and over and over and i just think it's ironic that we talk about these films with. Wayland utani in the fucking company in this and that in this and that and. This ip is in the hands of these these companies that don't know what to do with it and they want to like like they want the alien for. For the bio weapons division is like they want the alien movies or whatever in the show for commerce they have their own ideas and things go or I and things go crazy and I think that weirdly Scott has been given too much power. He is not George Lucas he does not own this ip and I i place. of some of the blame on. 20th century for giving this man too much power for giving him too much say and. I think people have to understand like the spin that happened with this video or res left the show and I know that Patrick and Mikey probably familiar with like when stuff goes wrong or when people leave projects they say oh they're like like with Paul miss gal they're scheduling.

32:26schedule yeah was a schedule issues pretty excuses things that went down yeah where he was accused of not being masculine enough and that accusation is what weirdly Scott how we just got blame the failure. Of gladiator show even though Napoleon which cost upwards of 300 million dollars also flopped also was a not a success so you have all of. go ahead Patrick i was just going to say like the scale of the flop is what is just drag crazy with really like like Napoleon I think was 350 million dollars yes that is that is an absurd amount of money for a movie that like I think I maybe know four people who. watched it I know you're one of them I mean I can watch ten minutes of it and I turned it off I thought it was so bad no Napoleon I watched i'm talking about gladiators she was so terrible I turned it off Napoleon I watched all the way through was a terrible movie just wasn't a good one. and it's so historically reckless and it's one of those things where it's like I get it like his his his interest is not in historical accuracy but like come it's like really well established historical narrative that like all of us learned to some degree in school like have some respect for what happened you know and like and the last duel you know he famously when he was called out about like the helmet shape.

33:42he was like you know like i'm not making a documentary about the past like you can go to somebody else know for that i'm kind of like there's there's something that's like you know whatever about there's there's a hubris in that to where it's like my vision of the past is more important than like what it actually looked like you know. but to your point about his thoughts like look at dog stars like that is that is a movie that I think was a hundred eighty million dollars or something like that to make. i mean i'm not a hundred and eight but something like that there's a one in eight and it was a big number i know that and it's just a huge budget for a film with a tiny cast. and and it was and it made seven million offers that's opening week and i think if you look at like the scale from investment to return i think that's the biggest flop of the year and will probably end up in the record books as one of the biggest flops of all time because you have this a list cast. you have this based on a book that was a huge hit with a director whose name should be a marquee draw and nobody hope he saw it and yet the studio is betting over to give him. you know power over everything it's really weird it is weird the piousness in the ego like all the comments that i've seen from him are just so ego driven and they're so.

34:52they're so arrogant and they lack humility and i just feel like even ridley's prequels they weren't successful now. per me the s and i've gone over these numbers before per me the is made a lot of money. it did so let's say per me the cost i think a hundred and thirty million dollars to make it made four hundred and two million dollars worldwide so you look at those numbers and you think oh that's great it tripled its budget the marketing cost on per me the was also about. between a hundred and ten hundred and thirty million dollars so when i said done it was successful and you know this because they change direction. for covenant and they called it alien covenant and they fridge and killed off shot so something was going on refox at the time was like this isn't working we need something that's more alien in theory. per me the is profitable but it really wasn't profitable and then covenant. essentially flopped so you have this guy who has in his wake he's got all these flops and these films that aren't commercially successful they're not making any money but he's still given.

35:57like hundreds of millions of dollars to make these films i believe the studios for this i don't know why they're doing this but i also understand. and in this industry when fed a spun why he left rami was to because feda wants to work again and if feda were to come out and say this in this and this happened. he would be blacklisted probably by briefly Scott or whoever saying well you're not going to work again in this town we've seen that many many times where people come out and they say something or. let's just say people like for instance this is unrelated but related. what's your name we played Jessica Rebecca Ferguson she talked about how she was horribly abused on the set. of probably the film life probably by Ryan Reynolds but she never named him junior why she never named him because she wants to work in the industry still and she names him. my jeopardizer career and you see that all over and the people who do name. the people responsible for what's going on. are blacklisted in some of the people aren't like there's somebody who isn't like he was in the yard what's his name George cluny yeah so he worked on that movie the three kings.

37:04directed by David Russell him and David Russell went to blows on it yeah and they deal and what's this and George cluny was such a big name that he came out publicly and said this is what happened and this was awful and his and his career continued but I think in part because he's a man. and he can say those things and but with when women say things or when lesser stars because yeah, Fetty Romp Fetty Rommos Fetty Alvarez is successful but he's just changes name. i know he's successful but he's not this like he is not a Ridley Scott he is not a David Fincher he has had three really successful films but not the kind of success that's going to maintain his. his name in the industry so he has to be careful so he left quietly graciously humbly and then in that wake is this IP that's like what's going on in nobody knows. it was done it was like okay the first thing we do we said Ridley get really to watch it and and i'll drive the where he is and sit down at table and take it and take whatever it is the good the good the bad and.

38:12but you know i was super happy obviously that you enjoy the movie that you said it's great and what can i say you know that that was something that i always said you got a huge huge movie here i want to read a couple comments quick because there's been a lot this is an amazing chat and huge thank you to Eric Stevens who is helpful and literally everything that he does but yes. thank you Eric not only moderating in there but also highlighting some comments for us to read because we don't want to miss him so thank you are so sky Aaron talking about other friends of our super very helpful says three mainstream alien projects in the works at the same time is eating pretty good for this fandom also hate gets clicks and the controversy he brings will bring eyes. and he says I hate controversy marketing but and I get that is that's very true I got to say like on Reddit yeah and all the movie subs are talking about. Romulus sequel xenoprater 55 says really Scott praised rhymed listen 2049 and then later talk bad about them just because they did better than his current movies and yeah that goes to what we've been talking about with this weird narcissism street really has both the dog stars.

39:16and gladiator to in his like. pre-release press tour he touted as being the best thing he'd ever treated really yeah have you seen this is this getting more and then so he so about the dog stars he said it was his best films in some Martian that's when he said about that. and of course it's a terrible movie that it's like 30% of rants made us I will say this about the dog stars though it's not a terrible film it's just not an interesting one it's just like after I saw I was like. it was like if I could use the warm me to describe something it would be that film I would actually recommend people watch it because I'd love to discuss it we could do it like a story the story is like right up my alley your alley everybody yeah that's alley. but it's weird that that type of a story like a post apocalyptic story especially one that's so relevant with like a pandemic versus like zombies of course. how is that how do they how does it become like what yeah how do we let that happen you know I mean that should be a good story an exciting film and it just it sounds like it really wasn't yeah and so so yeah he said that in the press that it was the best thing since the Martian and then he was just like recently.

40:31yesterday somebody brought it up in another interview that he had said that and then he denied saying it and it's like it's recorded him saying that he just said that but it's this looks like somebody else we know yeah it does believe that your imagination out there but there's this weird mix of like is he is he kind of I don't want to say like see Nile but is he like losing some of his faculties and like honestly not remembering things considering that he's almost a non-agentarian at this point or is he just that it is word. or is he just that you know I don't know naval gaysie like that can see outside of his own self you know it's it's just it's just it sucks another quote another thing I'm going to read. JV says I'm more interested in getting the conclusion I don't care if we're the directs my interests is David and the engineers in a good story to close the trilogy off. That's guy says let's lock them up. reference to the best TV show ever that's what CV shows that reference to I think you should leave what you should have watched this point because every meme that you ever see in any of our

41:34performance. So I'm going to get a zip lines tattoo on my neck. I'm like, she and actually like I'm like the style like a tin strap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, when you open the mouth it hasn't like jumping. As a flip. Yeah, I'm working on my neck for this. Yeah. But so that's a valid point, JV, as everybody listening to this knows I'm a huge covenant fan covenant is like how I kind of rebirthed my modern fan. Themself is how I ended up on the show. I will always love you only covenant. Covenant was a rebirth of this show. Yeah. Covenant was a big deal for all of us in different ways. Some of us because it was a masterpiece. But the issue with covenant is we know for people who worked on it that really was deliberately trying to tie covenant into the events of alien and and and and sinewating that not not even a sinewating showing that David created the xenomorph as in the big trap that we have. You know, in the first film. And to me like why covenant works so beautifully is because it doesn't allow the story to go there.

42:37So it feels like he was like David was trying to approximate something like he was playing with fire and something went really wrong. But he was trying to kind of recreate something that the engineers had taken notes about. And and I think it would just be so crappy if we had this like bad version of Rogue one, you know, where like it loops into the first movie. And it's like not oh my god. Like Rogue one is a great film. So it works. David's in the in the jockey chair. Yeah. I'm telling you that's what he wants to do. I have 100% think you're right about that. I won't write it. Please don't. Yeah. And so so I think that that is what and again, I don't think like I know from talking to people who have seen what these plans were because they were affiliated with the covenant. That he was planning on tying it directly to alien. Now I haven't seen anything about the the jockey. Oh, that's what I all I thought that's what you were saying. I know that's just a calculation. Oh, yeah. But like that is the kind of really that we're talking about a guy who's about to be 90, who has made flop after flop after flop. And like it could really, really screw up and erase the beautiful mystery at the heart of this thing.

43:40Yeah. You know, if he's given his, uh, his way, which apparently he is. And I think that's what's so frustrating. And the Kyle's point, which is really good about the release cycle. You know, like so I've never been somebody who wants an alien movie every other year. Like I just don't think we need that. I don't think any of us do. Like I think that that's I don't think anybody's expecting like all right. Let's pump him out. Let's get, you know, alien 35 gone right away. Like I love the idea of, you know, like bands can take five years sometimes between albums. And that's like a great and you come out with something that shows growth. And it's different and it's really exciting. It's like, oh, here we go. Uh, you know, I would love for alien to be like to give us like five years. But in that five years to be like working cohesively towards something, I think to me, what's bothering me is this idea that it's so discombobulated behind the scenes. And that we get such just bizarre like conflicting ideas of what's actually happening as opposed to what would be so nice, which is like, you know, 20th century being like, here's our roadmap for the next 20 years for this thing.

44:42We're not going to tell you what it's about. We're not going to give you anything. But like we're going to have this director is lined up for this film. The strictor's lineup for this film. You know, and you can, you know, and then and then we don't need to hear anything. And then three years go by and the whole time we're like, oh, it's definitely like, we know people working on it. Like we've seen leaks of things, but like it's happening, you know, and then we see a trailer and we're like, all they actually did it. Like they delivered what they what they said they were going to do as opposed to this weird, like, you know, game of peekaboo that we're playing where it's like, it's happening. No, it's not. Well, this person's doing it or doing that. You know, and then really comes in and it's like, was any of this even real in the first place? I mean, I who knows what the extent of Brian Duffield's involvement has been? Who knows? Like, it just feels like none of this could be true. There were other people in your list, which was wonderful, Jamie. There are other people missing from that too, along the way who have been, you know, quote unquote, confirm me working on it. And it's like the guy that wonderful Chilean director. Yes. Oh, yeah. That was just a big rumor that that was started by a fan, though. I was.

45:42That was reported. Yeah. But, but it did, but it took off and people were sharing. It was a factory. He did deny it too. Officially that the director denied it on Instagram. Yeah, he's the guy that did a. You identified. Yes. And, um, terrifying. No, not terrified. It's terrified. Terrified. Clown or the clown. Yeah. But he's great in its own way. Yeah. Just very different. Though it's when evil works that would which yes. That was great. That was great. That was all excited. I was like, oh, this is actually a good fit, but it wasn't true. But my point being like, because there's this vacuum of information on this thing, it's like anything could be happening. And I would love as a fan. Who's been a fan since I was essentially a toddler. I would love to for the first time in my four decades of life have an idea that this thing is being cohesively shepherded by people who have long term vision for it. And where we don't have to just be guessing what the fuck's going on all the time. Because like they know what's going on.

46:44And they're building those cohesive stories that make sense and that try new things out and the experiment. And in the service of that, they get interesting new filmmakers and they get unknown actors like they did for Alien. And they take leaps on chances on people. Because what happens if you don't have that is you have all of the speculation and all of this rumor mill stuff. And you have things like David Johnson being in the MCU now. Yeah. And just these, I mean, the stakes for Romulus to are very different. I think then they were a year and a half ago when we were all sure it was about to be you know, coming out or getting rumored to be released. So yeah, I just it's a frustrating thing to be an alien fan and to be constantly jerked around like this. Yeah, it's so frustrating. It was such a burn when you know, George Lucas kind of pulled the same thing

47:52that really is starting to do where he believes that he is the be all end all. And yes, I know Lucas owns, he owns everything about Star Wars. That's all fine. But yeah, I'm still I'm like one of those I will not say at I'm sorry. And there's just like that, that rigid control. It could give us just movies that we forget about. Like I mean, the prequels obviously have their merit and they've aged to the point where nostalgia makes us love them. But these new Star Wars ones, I wanted to love them so much, but I still can't love them because they're just only carbon copies of what worked before. You know what I mean? And I really would hate to see our friends, franchise, the alien franchise go that way because someone doesn't want to give any someone doesn't want to play nicely with others. Really? I don't know why I feel so optimistic tonight, but I feel like we're talking. And I don't know. It's something came over me. But no, but no, we're talking about Patrick.

48:52You're bringing up that like alien, like, you know, having this 20 year plan. I think and I don't know why, but I think we're on that precipice where that could actually happen. And the only reason why I think that is because of the resurgence of alien isolation being in like this, the zeitgeist, you know, now and also alien earth and the success of Romulus, whether we like it or not, it is there. And I think maybe this next film might determine the future of this. I pay whether it, you know, is going to go back into being like more esoteric or it's going to be, I mean, it will never be really if you think about it because of just it pop culture. But you know what I mean? More niche again, but if it doesn't, this could shift it if this film does as well. Because I think we're almost there. Like, you know, post-covenant, we're again, anything. So when, when was the next film? It wasn't until 2024 and nothing was really happening, right? For seven years. Am I correct? Like, I don't think I'm, yeah, like nothing was going on.

49:54So that's something to consider, you know, that we are now in that, you know, quote unquote, liminal space, right? They were it shifts to it could shift towards something very, very meaningful if it's done correctly. And I don't know, but like, I don't know. I think that could happen, you know, in this sense, if we're, because we are getting stuff now, like Sky said, right? Shout out to Sky that like this one, like we're eating well. People are not enjoying all the meals, but you know, they're kind of, they keep coming. So, you know, it's, it's food at the end of the day. And we all want quality food, right? Not just sustenance, but I don't know. I think the next one is going to determine a lot. It's my, my, like, how I feel about what's going to happen with Alien next. So we'll see who directs it. Then, you know, but I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there's bound to be a diamond at some point from all the pressure. I honestly like, there's so much happening. And I think if Brian Duffield is involved, which I would imagine he probably is,

50:56there's probably some truth to that reporting, not to Patrick's point, and what capacity we don't know. Underwater was not an amazing film, but I think it was a good solid fun film. And I think it understood things. Yeah, understood some things. And I think the guy who wrote that having him write Alien, I think that's a good step. But I think there's larger, like the larger thing here is like, to your point, Kyle, like maybe something amazing will come from this. And I think part of that is going to come down to the executives involved, including Steve Aswell, understanding fundamentally what makes these films great. And I think you have all of these fingers in the pie, certainly like with movies like Alien 3, where everybody had a different idea of what, what would make that film good. All of these executives saying this and that we're doing this and we're doing that. And this is a hot take, or at least maybe not a hot take, but for me, what was born from all of that chaos was something beautiful. Yeah, I'm now going to say that.

51:57Yeah, some of people don't agree with that. But I think generally as time goes on, fans are really warming to Alien 3 saying, hey, I don't like this, but I understand it was a good film. Right. Even though I didn't like some things that happened in it, they're not even saying it's a terrible film. I just didn't like what happened in it. And so perhaps with this will get a film that is that's amazing. And that we have people behind the scenes, understanding that Alien isn't just set piece, that Alien isn't just tropes, that Alien isn't just Android here, you know, space station running this that that's something more. It's deeper. The Ripley timeline in those films, they're way deeper than what we're just saying. I mean, this this show was born off the discussions on why these films are so important to us. And we'll always have those discussions. And I'm hoping and I think in its own way, despite my misgivings about it, I think Alien Earth brought some of those conversations back, some conversations that we couldn't have with Romulus, we could have with Alien Earth,

52:58to be honest with you. And we're going to get back more into that. But it is going to be interesting to see what they do. And I really hope that the people in charge, like Steve Asbel and other people who are involved in 20th century, pony up and just tell Ridley Scott, this isn't going to work. Like we can't, it's not sustainable. This IP is not sustainable with him. And even though Romulus was made and it was successful, it was done by Fedya Alvarus having to essentially go against his own instincts. Like for instance, Rook was supposed to be female. They had an actor supposedly lined up, Phoebe Walla Bridge, I think was in was being talked about to play this, but Ridley wanted Rook, Ridley wanted Ash essentially and Fedya was like, OK, and again, Fedya said every note he gave us weed here too. And I know that Fedya didn't want to do that, but because Ridley has so much power, he felt forced to. And I think if they can get out of that, if they can get out of this dynamic, where they get these great directors who are talented, who are successful, then they put them in the shark tank with these people who are like, Oh, yeah,

54:01we love you, but don't do this and don't do that. You better do this. Then why hire them? Why hire them in the first place? If you're just going to dictate what they do and their creative decisions, that it is a lose, lose situation as a director for I work director and I was wanting to whatever. I'd be like, I don't want to get involved in any of that. No, thank you. I think this film, what's interesting is Citter is like how fandom's going to react to it. And that's one thing that I noticed was looking at comments online. It's many fans seem to be divided in regards to there being another Ridley film. Some are for it while there seems to be like completely against it. And I've been feeling that this film, if made, might reopen that chasm and fandom that arguably Romulus closed a bit. I'm chasm meaning like divide, you know, that's happening. Romulus closed it a little bit, but sure people hated Romulus, but many fans generally enjoyed it or even loved it, you know, versus like, yeah, you always get the comments I read of Romulus, like not being whatever. It's ad nauseam, you know, at this point, I feel like,

55:03but like generally speaking, no one's like going like there's no hatred for Romulus compared to you. Let's say when he only three came out, which is now obviously shifted, you know, and whatever. So anyway, all I'm saying is I think the fandom is, it's an interest for us. It's also an interesting place for us to think about. Yeah, my only kind of closing thoughts here is it's I'm, I'm heartened to hear your optimism for it. At least in terms of my own Jamie, like I feel like that's, that's a nice way to look at it. Maybe it's like, I'm just tired from being in a war for 12 hours and like, but I just feel really doom and gloom about it right now. I feel like I feel like yelling in earth is like the future of like good alien storytelling, which is like incredibly incendiary thing to say, but like, I mean, I really love so much of the first season. I think it's a tremendously fun thing to talk about. And that's the one thing in a long time that did not feel tethered down by Ridley's influence. It really, it feels like you can even watch it. Like I think he's no clue what happened in that thing, especially because now in

56:07comments that he's making, he's like, no one's addressing why, you know, AI gone wild. That's why I want to bring David back. I'm like, I'm like, I don't need your fucking. You don't want to make an alien film, dude. Yeah. And so I think that like, you know, I'm excited. I think that alien earth has the potential to really actually be like a uniting force in fandom. If season two is a little more cohesive and maybe a little, a little more kind of rain in, I think it could be a really, really cool thing. And maybe the future of great alien storytelling is really in television. I don't even mean no, Holly. But I mean, like, why does it always have to be a film and why does it always have to wrestle the legacy of really Scott? Like why why not get more like interesting long form storytelling that has room to breathe isn't beholden to like giant, you know, budgets for very short, you know, comparative runtimes. I mean, because sure, we're one character. Yeah. And nearly everything was like $250 million, but it was spread over eight episodes, you know, like it's a chance to like make things go farther and to my point to like tell stories about other people and other experiences.

57:10And so I would love that, but it's not going to happen because Disney has its fangs and alien right now. And we see with everything Disney touches like they will just suck that shit out until it's gone, you know, and they will leave behind a weathered carapace. And I'm sorry that that's really depressing, but I think it feels like it's true. I mean, I like 10 years ago, I was like an and sufferably passionate Star Wars person. Yeah. And sufferably passionate. And now I'm met me. Well, now I just like, I don't I don't watch any of it anymore. Like just so done. 10 years ago, I was I was an insufferable comic book movie nerd. I mean, I never missed anything. And now it takes a lot like we'll see Spider-Man movies, but like I'm just not really, I don't give a shit about Doomsday like, you know, and these are these are franchises that have like tremendous cultural power and influence and people show up for it. And yet I think a lot of people are kind of tuning out because they're seeing this weird kind of capitalistic churning going on underneath. Absolutely. And I really do not like that being applied to alien.

58:12Like to me, alien should be removed from that. And it should be primarily about the story that it's trying to tell and not about the return on its investment. Yeah, not about commerce. Yeah. No. And I really do think that TV might be a good solution for that. And I just do. Yes, TV and video games because they're they're slightly smaller. So like the big names like Ridley Scott, maybe not like its television and video games are below them, but they seem to be able to get away with more things, more creative control. And we are getting stories about other characters like it's not just another repeat of blasting the creature out the airlock. We get to see different views. We get to see different planets and we get to see different situations. And I would love for the television show, even not just alien Earth, like another alien show or another show set in that universe, not necessarily even alien. It would be fabulous to see that kind of thrive and grow because it definitely had

59:14attention as it was very successful. But it also is just small enough that that other people can do what they want. Like Noah Holly. I think the last thing that I want to say is, okay, so when Steve Zerlin, who was who worked at Fox, he was an executive Fox, he was kind of in charge of the IP of the alien to some degree in his own way. And he set up this board of people who were really in charge of fostering alien projects. So they would meet and they would like whenever's coming down the line and people would be there for continuity and all those things. I really believe and you know, these people who work in the industry, nobody listens to us, except for when things fail, then they start listening to fans or whatever. I'm not even saying that they should listen to us, but I feel like there could be a committee of people and some of them work in the industry and some of them don't, who are committed to alien. Maybe they get a stipend from 20th century and they meet and they talk about these things and they hear, they hear, they're not surrounded with

1:00:18yes men. And I think part of the problem with the industry is, especially when you're successful, you're just surrounded by yes people. Every idea is a good idea. I said this before on the show. And I think that system is detrimental to creating art. Now they have to balance business and art. Those are two things they're, they can work together and they can also work against each other. But I think with alien, they've been trying to shove it into this like make money for us, be a blockbuster and you need these things to do it. But I feel like if there's a, as I say, a group of six people or four people or whatever that are committed to integrity of story, integrity of character, continuity, where things sit in the timeline. I think we would get better products as opposed to, oh, no, this is what's in my mind and all my ideas are good. No one's going to, I don't know, push back on me. I think that that's why we've been seeing. That's why the prequels are the way that they are because you had the one

1:01:18person in the room who thinks they're God and delivering these very uneven things. And I think that's why Romulus was a little bit uneven. I think partly it's why alien art for all it's good. There's some unevenness there. And I think part of that is you had, you didn't have anybody in there saying, this isn't working. This doesn't look good, but people are so scared as we were talking earlier to say anything that they're like, Oh, no, it's great. And it's hurting this IP. So that's what I have to say. Who knows fingers crossed. I hope whatever film or films come out of whatever's going on behind the scenes at 20th century can somehow be good. Fingers crossed. I think that'd be great. And I think that committee is a wonderful idea. But I think as long as some people are still kicking around, it's going to perhaps have to admit it to have a power over anything. Yeah, who knows, you know, maybe maybe one more big flop and really will be like, all right, I think I'm going to retire now at age 92 or whatever's going to be. Oh, caveat before you and before you talk about or you list off our producers, there is there was a statement in one of the interviews that he was doing that he was

1:02:23that it was asked if really would direct this next alien film that he's involved with. He said possibly. So there's a good possibility that he's in there and involved, but he's also not the director. So that bodes well, maybe fingers. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, forgot that. Yeah, let's go ahead and do a little producer shout out. And again, these are people giving it $12 a month or more. And if you want to join them, you can do so at perfect organism. Com slash support or via Apple podcasts. And you get a lot of exclusive perks, which is really cool, including access to our producer chat, which is I think the best chat in the history of the internet. Yep. And that's how everybody's been playing, been playing Fire Team Elite too, like nonstop lately. But we do RPG nights and stuff and it's a movie nights where we, you know, pick a movie and watch it at the same time. It's like it's like it's like if you want to have like the most hardcore group of sci-fi nerd best friends in the world, a quick shortcut to do. Yes. But we love all of you regardless of if you pay or any of this or not, you're just as valuable to us. But if you if you would like to be at the 12 dollar level, you'll have a shout out at the end of the show

1:03:26like these people, including Zander House Nathan Gribble Darren Gold Murray Kuturawi Jonas Holmston David Holmes Dave Turner Jean McDonald Parichiko's Matt Bro Karl McLean Joseph Rossner Bloodhut Steve Patterson Gelatory 8 start all quickly Ross Yost pop cycle Jeff Deloft Carl Hinks Chris B Jeremiah White Andrew Peter from Melbourne Gary Smith on Hill Cruz Wayne Lee Duton distinguished engineer. Lazy pancreas Sky Aaron Jordan Darren Eric Poup Vane Stevens Ali Kara Matt Thomas and Tracy Larry Wood big hippie and our new buddy Eric Borden. We really appreciate you all. Yes. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much, you guys. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts for a chance to have your review right on the air. You can also watch live recordings of the show and subscribe for future episodes on YouTube. Come forward slash at perfect organism podcast. To find out more information about perfect organism, the alien socket podcast, please go to

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