Revulsion at Israel Is Changing Everything, w/ Susan Abulhawa

0:00Nobody can keep watching people getting slaughtered to this extent and just be okay with it. It's just, it goes against human nature and I think there is this moral revulsion at Israel. And yet we're supposed to reassure them, spare their feelings. I don't think so. When has Israel ever honored an agreement? When have they ever respected Lebanese territorial integrity? People in general spend too much time and too much effort, tiptoeing around the criticism that needs to take place against this horrendously violent, genocidal, hateful, racist, parasitic colony. But I believe that someday people will come to see that the things I say are wholly reasonable.

1:01Hello everyone, I'm Rania Calik and this is Dispatches. It's been over a thousand days of livestreamed Israeli genocide in Gaza. And the ground is shifting. In the US, Canada to refuse APEC money and call the genocide by its name are toppling incumbents. And the establishment's answer has been a full blown red scare. To get into all of this plus Lebanon, Iran and much more, I'm joined by Palestinian novelist, poet and activist Susan Abel-Hoa, author of Mornings and Janine and one of the most uncompromising voices we have. But before we jump into it, this is just part of this episode. The full interview is available to break through news members only. You can become a member at our website which just got a fantastic makeover.

2:02Just go to breakthroughnews.org slash subscribe. And as always, be sure to hit the subscribe button here on YouTube and the bell. So you get a notification whenever we post new content. And smash that like button and share this episode. It helps boost us in the algorithm that hates us. And if you appreciate this show, you can also donate below on YouTube. Susan, welcome back to Dispatches. It is such a pleasure to talk to you today. Oh, he's a pleasure to talk to you. There's like so much I want to get into and I want to get your take on. But first, tell us how amazing your weekend was. I'm sure that you had July 4th celebrations because you know, it's 250th anniversary of America. I can imagine the patriotism was just all over the place. I mean, I, I mean, did the funeral of Imam Ali Haminei has eclipsed really all of that.

3:03So that's all that was on my feed. Also, I really am against fireworks. I think they are, I mean, they're just, you know, I, I, I'm an animal lover and they terrify wildlife. They terrify my pets. So usually July 4th, I spend the day in our, you know, just cuddling my dogs in my cat to make sure everybody's okay because they tear their terrified and, you know, it pollutes the water, pollutes the air. So I'm not a fan. Yeah, well, that's one, that's one of many reasons. But yeah, that's actually a really good point. I mean, I was, I was going to say like, because of the amount of bombings I had to withstand around me this year, fireworks definitely hit me differently. Because it's like a scary sound. But that kind of speaks to a lot of the things that that we're going to be talking about today. You mentioned Iran. I want to get into that. You mentioned, you know, July 4th with regard to it when I get into that. But I think, you know, first I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about some stuff that's been in the news last few weeks, which is quite exciting, but also like with some caveats.

4:17I think it's super interesting that Palestine has become this litmus test in these democratic primary elections across the country. I mean, you have people like this woman, you know, in Claire Valdas and another woman, Daria Lisa in New York City. You have me like heroes in Colorado. You have Abdul Asayat and Michigan. Everybody except Abdul Asayat has won their primaries. These like insurgent candidates and many of them, you know, like way ahead of the people they were running against incumbents. And they're all winning on the issue of refusing to take A-PAC money or any corporate pack money. But really on the A-PAC money issue and then opposing the genocide in Palestine. And I mean, I think this represents a pretty big shift. And what we've seen in this country. And so I'm curious, your general thoughts like, why do you think the issue of Palestine, the issue of Israel's genocide in Gaza is defining these democratic primary elections across the country.

5:21When the genocide started, I mean, that was the, that was the beginning of this American awakening. And we've seen it not just across the democratic party, but also across the Republican party. I mean, it's, it's really across the across the general population of the United States. And like today, I was just watching this clip of these two veterans talking. One of the veterans was dispatched to Israel where they were doing something with the Israelis. And he said, and you know, all of us, the Americans, the American soldiers started to, they started a group amongst themselves. And they were saying, are we the baddies? You know, they were peeding that clip. Are we the baddies? And what he said was that the Israel was not at all what he always thought it was. And he was just kind of this, you know, typical American who had drank the Kool-Aid about Israel. And then he goes and he sees who these people are up close and he's disgusted.

6:25I mean, and this is a, you know, these are two veterans speaking. And I think these sentiments are running through the US military as well as the general population. And it kind of reflects the, you know, the new polls that we're seeing with this shift in general, in the general opinions. And I, and I think it's not just a new, an issue that Americans are interested in. I think it hits a different kind of nerve because it goes to the very foundations of what Americans believe about themselves as a people who are free, who are not controlled by outsiders, that they have a free press and so on. And Americans are starting to understand that none of that is true. Israel is not in fact our friend. Israel has killed Americans. Israel has spied on Americans. They continue to spy on Americans. You know, people are starting to learn about the USS Liberty. They're, you know, and about these, you know, the multitude of a false flags that have occurred throughout the history.

7:33And this is like all new information that Americans are just starting to learn about. And I think it's, it has an infuriating effect on people. And they realize, and then part of that awakening is understanding the amount of money that is going into buying politicians and APAC is the face of that, that, you know, that organization track APAC has been brilliant. And really just naming and shaming and putting numbers beside everybody's every politician's face, according to how much money they have taken from APAC. When I was younger, nobody knew the word APAC. You would say APAC and nobody, because they operated from the shadows. But then they got, you know, they got pretty comfortable and they started boasting about all the politicians that they bought. And so now it's in people's faces. So, yeah, and I, I think, you know, to go back to your question, sorry, this is such a long answer. But basically, the bottom line is that, first of all, there's a moral component.

8:46Nobody can keep watching people getting slaughtered to this extent and just be okay with it. It's just, it goes against human nature. And I think there is this moral revulsion at Israel. Then there is the issue of, you know, the question of Israel controlling American politicians, taking money from an organization or an institution that spends millions and millions and millions of dollars buying politicians for the sake of a foreign government. So, so there's that. There's wanting to, there's wanting to sort of like elect people who are not beholden to a foreign country. And then the final component is this new narrative that's emerging of, you know, who, who runs things. Who's interested these people acting in? It's certainly not in the interest of the average American.

9:54And in this new narrative is basically upending these long held beliefs about freedom and freedom of press of the press and democracy and choosing your leaders and, you know, being masters of your own faith and so forth. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Oh, but I don't like if the dogs come into. No, no, no, it's so cute. They're talking. It came. It was the best. Yeah, she's, she's, she actually used to be one of my foster dogs and her new mom, her new mom drops her off whenever she has to travel or something. So I babysitter. I dox it. Her mom is, is a rabbi with JVP. She works with JVP. Oh, fun. Yeah. Look at that. Well, so it's a good, an anti-sign is dog. The old dogs allowed on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got to keep this pardon no matter what the dog gets to make a cameo. She can sense.

11:00So I, I know I agree with you and so much on there, especially in the sense that like, I think that the issue of Israel and especially like the A pack money. It just kind of represents everything rotten about American politics. So I think it's become also a litmus test because like if you suck on this issue, you're going to suck on other issues. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like if after two and a half years of genocide, live streamed after a thousand more than a thousand days of watching babies have their limbs chopped off and heads chopped off by Israeli bombs that we're paying for. And if after all that, you can still be bought to support that disgusting behavior and policy. Then like you have no soul. You can be bought for, you can be bought for anything. Yeah. That is like a correlation. We see right like if you're willing to take A pack money, you're also willing to take health insurance and industry money. And you know, more industry money like Lockheed Martin and Boeing and all these other things. And you're willing to, you're just willing to be like a soulless coward who will sell for anything like a prostitute, you know.

12:08So I feel like it's become kind of a way of distinguishing between who is a real person with like a soul. And who is it? And in politics, that's very important because a lot of politicians are quite soulless. But even before the genocide, Drawnia, people were, I mean, this sort of being fed up with Washington, the establishment has been bubbling for a long time. But people do not quite have the language to be honest. They didn't quite have the facts. They just understood that Washington was corrupt, that they were not working in their interests. People were tired of the forever wars. And that's like the main reason that Trump even got elected. So there is this background. And then you added genocide, a live streamed genocide on top of that, that strains the people's sense of morality. And then they hear their politicians saying that calling itself defense and you know, things that go against like.

13:11Total gas lining, just total total gas lining. And I think people are fed up with it. And yeah. So it's natural that that then become the witness test. Like, yeah. And it's great. Honestly, it's super great to see. That said, like, I, you know, I know that Zora Mamdani, I think this is kind of like an extension of the Zora Mamdani moment in the sense that like he also ran, he ran on a lot of progressive issues on a lot of left issues. But one of the defining issues of his election was the genocide in Gaza and his willingness to consistently call that out. And then of course, I bring up Zora because I think like, at the same time, this is the caveat I have. And I think, you know, it's, you know, he has been good on a lot of things. I was really happy. For example, he did not go to the Israel Day parade. And he didn't let them pressure him into going to that fascist performance that unfortunately some others that he's kind of allied with did go to. But that said, you know, he did capitulate to pressure to condemn you several months ago. And, you know, I, and to condemn you after Zionists, like attacked his wife for doing artwork with someone that you worked with.

14:26And so, and I know you've kind of like talked about that. You made this amazing video directed at him that I'm sure he probably watched that was so good. I must have watched it like five times myself. And I'm just curious, you know, how do you feel about his record and his work since then? And then you did post that beautiful video response to him at the time. Did you ever I'm curious like here from him or anyone around him after that? No, I didn't hear from him. And honestly, it's kind of, I put it behind me. And I meant it. I think in, and when I recorded that, I said, and I meant it sincerely. I'm just, I'm not really mad at him, to be honest. I just, I was disappointed and I, and I'm disappointed that he didn't reach out to me either, you know, privately or at least privately. But I, I don't know what it's like to be in his position. I do, I do give him some grace, to be honest. I, you know, I feel sick when I see some of the racist attacks against him. It's, I, it's terrible.

15:33I feel bad for him. I really do. To have to hear stuff like that that is just so denigrating to his personhood, to his religion, to his, this color of his skin. I mean, it's really, it's stuff that would not just not be acceptable for anybody else. It's still okay to say about Muslims in general. So I, I have compassion for him and he, but honestly, he has been amazing. He has shown, I mean, he's, he stood his ground on a lot of things. And I, I respect that. You know, I think he aired when it came to me, he made a mistake. I, and it was a knee-jerk reaction, maybe because it had to do with his wife. And there's, you know, and sort of a reflexive instinct to protect her because she didn't sign up for any of this. And, but I, you know, I care about the policies and the things that he has done for New Yorkers and the moral stand stands that he has taken and that has to be acknowledged. And I respect him for that.

16:46I hope someday he will see the error of his ways when it came to me. And maybe he already has. I recognize that maybe it feels like a liability for people to be associated with me. But I believe that someday people will come to see that the things I say are wholly reasonable and, and warranted. I think we, people in general spend too much time and too much effort tiptoeing around the criticism that needs to take place against this horrendously violent, but I think that the fact that they're Jewish, the fact that they're Jewish is immaterial. I would say the same thing if it was regardless of who it was.

17:55But I think the fact that they're Jewish is that it's a Jewish colony, that it's a Jewish genocidal society is what makes people recoil when I call them parasites or I call them ghouls or demons, but they are. They're all of that. And I think I'll be vindicated. I think history has not ended yet. And I think future generations will think very differently than folks do know. They are. Yeah. Yeah. What is it? What is it? Muhammad al-Kurts? He's like, it's not my fault that. Yes, who oppressed me or colonized me or Jewish. So my home. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what they happen to be. Like, and I do want to talk a bit more about that, that sort of angle of this. But before I do, I just also want to ask, you know, because I think this is important. I think there's like this debate I see going on and I think it's a fine debate to have. And it's like about whether it's wise to run inside of the Democratic Party and these primaries or if everything should be about third parties.

19:08I believe in like you should use every tool available. I think that there should be people building third party infrastructure. And I think it's also a great idea to run in these primaries to house these corporate democratic hacks. I think both of those things. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I'm very excited that there are these insurgent candidates winning democratic primaries. I think it's really useful that those kinds of people are going to be in Congress. And I don't think that means that there shouldn't be anything built outside of that party infrastructure as well. And so I'm just curious your thoughts on that. No, I completely agree. I mean, this is, it's, it's, it can hardly car yourself a democracy when you only, you know, you've historically only had two parties who more and more resemble each other. I mean, they, they're really kind of indistinguishable when it comes to foreign policy and, and things that really matter. They are different on when it comes to some cultural things that are some, in some ways, engineered to keep people at each other's throats. And I think that's.

20:19But, but ultimately they're, they're the same party. There've only been two instances in American history when a third party was allowed. What's that? The weird AI that like responded to maybe your hand thinking it was a thumbs up. That was amazing. They liked what you were streaming or liked what you were saying. So they were like, that's hilarious. That was amazing. Please. I thought you did it. I was like, what is that? What is that happy birthday? I don't know. That was so crazy. Anyway, so there've only been two moments in, in US history when a third party was basically introduced into the elections. One of them occurred in our lifetimes, which is when Ross Perot ran.

21:21He was the spoiler who was allowed into the debates with Bill Clinton and George Bush senior. And the other instance was when Woodrow Wilson was elected. That's how he got elected. And again, it was engineered. He was running against Taft and these bankers who wanted the Federal Reserve to be passed decided to go to Teddy Roosevelt and get convinced him to run as an independent. He ran on the Bull Moose party. And that's how they split the Republican vote. Otherwise Taft was going to be the winner. This very unpopular sort of nobody, Woodrow Wilson, got elected. And so they got their way to basically hijack the US Constitution, US economy by introducing the Federal Reserve. And then the second time was, you know, like I said with Ross Perot.

22:23And this was because Zionist wanted George Bush senior out. And he wanted their boy Clinton in because Bush refused to sign. Bush senior had gotten fed up with the settlement activity. And he basically said enough is enough. I've been telling you guys to cut it out. And I'm not going to sign this $10 billion loan guarantee, which is not really a loan. If they just call it a loan, it's basically $10 billion back. Yeah, they don't pay back. And loan guarantee for until you stop the settlements, right? Because you're spending American tax dollars on stuff that's contrary to US policy. And so these Zionists really like, okay, we'll show you. And the Zionist correspondence and stuff between Ross Perot and getting him to run is pretty well known. Anyway, and that's the only way he got into the debates. He split their Republican votes. And their boy Clinton got in. And one of the first things he did was to approve that $10 billion dollar, basically grant to Israel.

23:29So the two party system, I say this to say that it's been tightly controlled by a small group of ruling elite. And yes, there really, there has always been a dire need to have additional parties in this political arena. The Greens have been struggling mightily to, and they've gained some grounds, are really the only ones that are still standing. There have been many other parties that try to form. But now it sounds like Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene, or a new party. And honestly, I don't think that they're just going to attract Republicans. I think they're going to attract people across the spectrum, Democrats and Republicans.

24:29I would vote for them because I think Americans now are really hungry for people that they feel genuinely want to represent the interests of average Americans. Regardless of whether or not they are socially aligned, people are starting to understand that these things don't matter as much as they thought they did. And well, so could I actually listen, I actually think that this is where it's a mistake to just because I think there are people who are like, no, you should only try to change the Democratic Party and run in the Democratic Party. And I disagree with that for so many reasons. But I also am just like you're literally seating the ground to people like Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene to then have that like, like, a very conservative party that would attract people that would support people left to the Democratic Party.

25:31And look, when it comes to Tucker Carlson, I understand why people like the guy, but he also doesn't have a problem with like mass deportations and that sort of thing. And like, you know, the way that ICE operates. Like there's like, there's a lot of it to me. It's like, that's where I'm the left. I'm like, there could be the insurgent third party energy. But it's like nobody, some people are too scared to have that conversation, which is why I think it's really such a huge mistake to only focus. And not not saying that that's what, that's what everyone's trying to do. But there are people who like the second you bring up a third party. It's like blasphemy. Like, do you know what I'm saying? The only way to go is like inside the Democratic Party and nothing else. And again, like just like just a testament to what you just said. The fact that you're like, I vote for the, I mean, there are people you're like, I vote for those people. Yeah. There's a lot of people who would not necessarily because they're aligned with them on everything. Exactly. Because like that would be where that third party insurgent energy would be and like on a mass scale.

26:36So yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, go ahead. I think, I think they're. So one of the things I think that the mistakes that people make is that is believing that whoever gets into the. The White House alters the entire landscape of the United States. And you know, Donald Trump in some ways has done that. But he really like he inherited a lot of stuff from the Democrats. Oh, like this must deportation was ongoing under Obama. So this is what I mean by when I say that. Fame party. They're the same party. They just have a different they, you know, one it's kind of like a, you know, a Palestinian say that. You know, we were.

27:37What is it like with the progressive in office, we just get bombed by a pink. Right. Bring both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's how it is. Like a lot of the the separation of families was undergoing under it was it was ongoing under. He laid so much of that foundation. The throne. The targeting weddings in Pakistan, the killing of American citizens. The assassin that happened under Obama's watch. So it just becomes more visible under under Donald Trump. The fact is that there are there are institutions and that's what we have to focus on. If we had a party that was sincere, right, that was not beholden to foreign interests or corporate interests, right, which is I think what Tucker is trying to form.

28:38I think there's ways to advocate and maneuver and push for the things that we want socially. The, you know, the abolition of ice and I think those things can happen in under an administration that is sincere. Because there are because the United States has institutions in place. But the problem, the problem with the current two parties, regardless of who gets an office in a way, there is, you know, there is a shadow government in a way that ultimately makes these decisions. Like, is it, is it the Epstein class? You know, I remember somebody asked Jimmy Carter what about what was the most surprising thing to you when you became president? And his answer was the most surprising thing was actually how little power a president really has.

29:49So, you know, you get these, and actually Putin said it too. He said one time he was talking about, you know, you get sometimes presidents who mean well, they get into office. But then these men in black suits and briefcases come in and they tell them how it really is. Putin said that, right. And I think there's some truth in that. So, we need, I think, is, can there be a third party that goes in and actually is the real government that's not operating under a shadow government? A good question when you have an empire that like has this just very, like this, these interests that stay in place. Like you said, like, through administrations no matter what. And then there's like that whole, that whole joke that's maybe not entirely a joke or like that president who gets into office and wants to change things and they like put them in front of screen, a screen and it shows them like what could happen to him if he actually does. And he's like never mind, I guess I'll just go to war everywhere.

30:51But all that said, I do want to get to something that you recently wrote, which I really liked. I love everything you write. And this was your recent piece of Mondo, I see published a piece called on 972 magazine Sally Rooney and the centering of Israelis in an anti colonial movement. And in it, you argue that 97272's magazines, brokering of this Hebrew translation of Sally Rooney's book five years after she announced her boycott of Israeli publishing delivers cultural normalcy to Israel in the middle of a genocide. And exposes a deeper rot, a solidarity movement organizing itself around reassuring the colonizer rather than liberating the colonized. So let's, you know, this is a great piece. I want you to say whatever you want about it, but I kind of want to start by asking you because I think this is sort of at the center of a lot of debates about BDS and what it means. What is cultural book waycott for and why is it crucial that we don't center Jewish Israeli feelings or worry that they'll feel boycott it?

31:56Yeah, I mean, at its heart, the spirit of cultural boycott is to effectuate a cultural isolation of a society of a country that is engaged in war crimes and crimes against humanity where there have been no other mechanisms to hold them accountable. That's the point of a cultural boycott. So during the apartheid era, there was this whole movement that, you know, I, I won't play in Sun City, where artists refuse to, to perform to hold concerts and what, or really engage with South African cultural institutions, where they refused to engage with South African. So it's this sort of cultural isolation that, you know, that that is necessary to hold people accountable when there are no all the mechanisms in place don't work.

33:03And that's the situation here. Israel has been colonizing Palestine, brutalizing Palestinians, robbing Palestinians of home and heritage and future and sanity. For, you know, for eight decades, close to 80 years now, with no consequence. And every time, every moment of impunity is followed by an escalation in the violence and the brazenness of their crimes. So that's the, that's the point of boycotting, boycotting economically and culturally. You're basically saying, I am not going to lend my name to whitewash what this country is doing to the indigenous population. Me as an artist, as a writer, when I sign onto the cultural boycott, that's what I'm saying. That's why, you know, it's one of the reasons I refuse to have my books translated by an Israeli publishing house many, many years ago.

34:17And it's, and how much is speaking and how much he's good, he, he was one of the first people to say, like, you know, this is just a loophole. It's absurd. And it is. It's a loophole. And when you, when I read the justifications for why they did this, it was really all about Israelis. It was about assuring Israelis that the Palestinians aren't trying to boycott them because they're Jewish. Like, I don't give a shit. Like, I don't care what Israelis think about us now at this point. We're way past that. We are way beyond that. They can think whatever they want to think they are. Well, they have, we know what they think they've been pulled and the vast. Yeah, overbombing we vast majority of them support killing Palestinians. Yeah. And or ethnically cleansing them from the whole of historic power. Like that is. That's the whole. The polls show this. We know what is really thinking about us.

35:19And the truth is 90% of people in Israel approve. Yeah. A proof of this, this horrific violence that their state is committing against us. And yet we're supposed to reassure them. Spare their feelings. I don't think so. Like, I, it was just, I was so disappointed and 972 magazine. And also, I have to say in the BNC, like, who's running the BNC? Why are they making this a prior? I'm telling our audience. You're talking about the, the, it's the boycott national committee or council. Yeah. So this is like based on the West Bank. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I mean, ostensibly it was meant to be a group of a large group of civil society. But in reality, over the years, it has distilled down to a handful of personalities who are making all the decisions. And, you know, and that's unfortunate. I don't know who's making these decisions now. I mean, I have a, you know, a sense of who's doing it.

36:24But I think, you know, they have to get back to the larger group and have a consensus because I don't think Palestinians, most Palestinians civil society, give the shit at this point. What is Rayleigh's think about them? I think that, you know, Palestinians are just trying to survive. They're trying to, to live their lives and, and not be slaughtered day in and day out. Have their houses burned by these rabid settlers who come from Brooklyn every, you know, every day. So the idea that, you know, Palestinian civil society would sign off on this is, is unbelievable to me. And I don't believe it. And I think this is a decision of a group of people who unfortunately, you know, are misguided at this point. Let's put that mildly. I mean, there's also this like internalized colonialism for some people where like there's a need for this kind of like validation. There's almost like an excitement at the idea of like getting the, you know, oppressor to like, to like beyond your side.

37:35And that's, I think it's like a problem in general, like it goes beyond Palestine, obviously. Just like the second white person says something that people want to hear, like who are, you know, in our region or other regions, like you'll see them promoted so quickly, because they're like, oh, I got a white person said what we all know and like have already all been saying. Yeah. So there are probably some aspect of that. That doesn't justify at all. It's actually quite a, quite a problem. I think that's fine in this general population. We find that. But when you are in a position of leadership, right. Having that sort of internalized inferiority, that colonial mentality is will will just reproduce colonialism every time. I look at Joseph on speaking of Lebanon, I'm glad that you made that segue for me. You know, I just, this weekend was you actually sent me this video. I hadn't even seen it myself until you sent it to me. I actually didn't even notice these billboards.

38:38But there was these endless streams of these like expensive, well, they must be expensive billboards just across favorite celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States on this July 4th. Despite the fact that, you know, the US arms Israel to destroy Lebanon, but the US Israelis are now occupying Southern Lebanon. They wouldn't be able to do that without the US green light and again, weapons and diplomatic cover. The fact that the US just oversaw the signing of this disgusting surrender deal that is, you know, promoted and endorsed by the country's president Joseph Allen. I actually just for those who miss this is actually so insane like I, the Israelis with US weapons have killed over 4,300 Lebanese as of today that could be more tomorrow or the next day, but over 4,300. They're currently occupying a huge portion of Lebanese territory, 10 kilometers into the country refusing to leave. We have a treacherous government who signed a deal with the Israelis that cement that occupation and conditions Israeli withdrawal, which these Israelis are promising they won't even do anyway, but conditions that withdraw and reconstruction aid on Lebanon starting a civil war with his Bala.

39:55It's completely disgusting. This is the country who's overseen all that. And if you were. This is Bayroot over the weekend and the happy Badaffa video up, you know, it's that there's no street lights in some places, but you can see there's these billboards for those who are just listening these billboards of American flag say like happy 200. And a verse reading the US happy life work and it's no more after the war after the board on main highway. It's actually quite a success. And yeah, I'm clear of these behind these billboards. One literally one after another. It's like this is the most colonial shit ever. And again, this is a country. Look at that. That's a massive and entire bridge. I just like video. Again, happy for them to lie to the US with their. Absolutely nuts. And so anyways, I.

40:57I could not. I watching that actually makes me really angry. I just described, yeah, I just described the surrender deal that was signed with the US that was just being celebrated in billboard after billboard. And you know, your Palestinian, you watched the Palestinian leadership sign many agreements that were supposed to lead to Israeli occupation ending eventually a Palestinian state and if settlements on none, none, having seen how all that turned out and a lot of people warned, it's all like we had to wait and see many people warm, but having now seen how that turned out over the decades. Curious what's your message to Lebanese that think they're different from Palestinians or that Israel doesn't actually want their land the way they want Palestinian land. So they really have nothing to worry about. It's not the same. I mean, I don't need to even send them a message from Palestinians they should they can look at their own history. I mean, on Lebanon's own history like when has Israel ever honored an agreement when have they ever respected Lebanese territorial integrity or air space or maritime rights.

42:14Never they have been number one, they've been trying to siphon gas for munder the shared gas field. They don't care that it's Lebanese gas. They're sucking it out. Long before there was his blood, they were bombing, they were bombing Beirut bombing Lebanon and in fact, if you go back to the original Zionist documents. When they they felt like they were cheated by just giving by just getting Palestine, right. They felt like they were entitled to southern Lebanon. Their original plan, their original idea of Palestine was up to the Lebanese. And so they you know it's been part of their like Zionist entitlement since their since their inception.

43:16It's all there for for people to see and even after you know there was then there was the agreement that they made with the PLO and the massacres that you know that they didn't honor it was followed by the massacres at Sabra and Chateele. That agreement was also brokered by you. Was it Amir Habib? No, no, Habib. His last name was Habib, I can't remember. But anyway, then you know immediately after they trust the United States, they trust Israel, they trust this agreement. And then the greatest, where the greatest massacres since World War II happened in Lebanon. And after that, you know the the siege of Beirut that even Ronald Reagan called a Holocaust.

44:16So why why would the Lebanese trust this entity that hates them that wants their land that wants their gas and their water and their resources. Why on earth? And why would you not just trust like people who have violated agreements with you, but who have violated agreements after agreement after agreement with Palestinians with Iranians with with indigenous Americans. I mean it's I don't think there's ever been an agreement agreement that they actually honor to be honest. So are I mean are these are the people in leadership positions in Lebanon. That's stupid. Maybe they are. If they are, I mean, it sounds like they are raging to fade over here. There's a lot of people who believe they didn't even the Lebanese didn't even read the document. It's stupid. They are stupid. They're not only immoral, but they're stupid. And they are, you know, had combination. Really, really. I don't know. Are they blackmailed? Are they being bought?

45:27Or are they really just that dumb or maybe they're racism or maybe it's just pure racism and hatred. You know, there were moments during the genocide of Native Americans where some tribes allied themselves with the white settlers to fight their traditional enemies, right. So you can be so consumed with this local sort of old conflict that you're not looking at the enemy right by your side who's about to devour you after you devour your brother. And that's what's happening here. It's just it's such a shame. And then you know the irony of that being the only light on the roads is. Yeah, it's glaring. I mean Lebanon is living with these horrible outages and this really austere existence.

46:28And then but yeah, they can spare all the money and all the the generators to light up for the people killing them. Like it's wild. It was oh my god. It's wild. I was so I sent it to you. I sent it to Rania. I was just. I'm sure Bania completely lost it when she saw that. I mean, it's so convoluted and now you're absolutely right. I mean that that this is what these really is really good at. They're really good at defining conquer every every like every colonizer. It's like as you know, a tale is old as time, but it works every time right in so many ways. And speaking of divided conquer, I want to show you this video of Netanyahu. I saw yesterday. I'm so sorry to subject you to him. But this is part of the divided conquer. And it's so infuriating because it's so untrue. But so everything this man says. So let's listen it. Yeah, we also take care of our friends, especially the Christians in the Middle East. The Christian villages in Lebanon.

47:28Some of them have actually asked to be a next to Israel because we protect them against the his balla his balla fanatics want to kill them. And we do the same things with Christians everywhere. You're leading Christians in the Middle East. You're touching on my next. This is the leader. Not even true. No, not even a little bit. Please go ahead. No, they're literally making it up because they're trying to make yeah, they're trying to get Muslims to attack Christians and yeah, and it's it's it's a total lie. It's an absolute lie and they have been wanting to plunge Lebanon into a civil war for so long ever since the civil war in Lebanon. And they have tried and who knows who killed had really who was behind that and who knows who was behind the explosion on the docs like, you know, it would not surprise me if it was them constantly trying to sew this sort of internal strife within Lebanon.

48:44Yeah, and then the whole Christian thing like, you know, it's just the village that we all saw the videos of your soldiers like desecrating Virgin Mary statues and bombing churches in South Lebanon and destroying solar panels in South Lebanese Christian villages and killing they killed a priest for God's sakes like it's just who are you trying to guess like not just in Lebanon in Gaza. Yeah, the oldest churches in in Christendom they bombed them so like the oldest churches in the world are in our region. They are in Beladisham and Israel has been targeting them. They because they probably hate Christians more than they hate Muslims, frankly. Yeah, and and and they've been appropriating they've been stealing the church property and the like she's all like that is really beat the crap out of that none. Yes, yes, and the daily spitting on on churches spitting on Christians, the spitting on priests that's like common commonplace all throughout Jerusalem.

49:53Because their issue with us is it whether we're Muslim or Christian or whatever the issue with anybody in their way is that they're not Jewish that's literally it. So it's just such a blatant lie and it is infuriating actually you just reminded me they bombed a synagogue. They bombed in a synagogue in Iran and in Tehran during this war exactly actually also destroyed a synagogue in Beirut like during the Civil War when they were bombing Beirut. And ironically his Balla repaired it to your memory. Yes, yeah, his Balla in the way to repair that synagogue when they say his Balla they say it sounds they sound so Nazi the way they say it. It sounds like they're I'm like why like I'm saying please keep saying it like that because you sound like Nazis it's like the way they talk. It's so similar. You know why they just as an aside why they say because when these people came who have no resemblance to the land they couldn't say they couldn't the they couldn't utter the letter ha which is a symmetric.

51:04Because they were like they were like re re re re directing Hebrew. Yes, they were trying to yeah they I mean it's that modern Hebrew is a completely contrived language that actually bears very little resemblance to ancient Hebrew which is a dead language and it survived as a liturgical language only in synagogues and stuff. And so they they resurrected it and it's a modern thing and they stole they took a lot of words from from Arabic from Yiddish and that's that's what modern Hebrew is. But they could not pronounce the letter ha in homeless and so they just exoticized it and and turned it into a hot. So there it's just I wish I see them talk like that I'm like you sound like such idiots. Yeah, but it's an ugly I'm sorry the way it's so it's a I'm sorry it's I know I'm not sorry not sorry hashtag sorry not sorry especially like the way these people speak it I just see the people who are speaking in our committing genocide so like even if it sounded beautiful which I don't think it does it's the sound of genocide it's the sound of the sound of

52:13the thickness of yeah all of it all of it. I want to very quickly before I get to like a couple other topics I want to touch on I want to ask you about about your thoughts on Iran you actually so speaking to how we open you had commented on X. posted, like you reposted a video of these masses of people, just like out morning, Ayatollah Khamanay. And you said it's fitting and perhaps prescient that this moment of mass outpouring of love, grief, defiance, and national unity in Iran has a clip, stutterly, the much touted 250th US birthday celebration, which is very true. It's a very powerful point you're making. And I think it speaks to perhaps a little bit too optimistic, but the world's moral gravity shifting because of this attempt, this failed attempt to destroy Iran. You know, Iran is still a part of these negotiations

53:14with the Americans once again, but it's clear that the US failed to achieve their goals. And Iran, you know, stood up to the biggest and most destructive empire in the history of the world, and that empire, the US failed. And did they, this war may end up restarting again at some point? It's a very big problem. However, the US failed to succeed at in the last few months. It's also going to fail at like later on. You know what I mean? It's like, you're not going to win this one. You can keep destroying, but you're not going to win this one because Iran has learned how to use the leverage of the straight of her moves. And that's an addition to a lot of other things too, but all that's to say, what does do you think Iran having withstood this war mean for the region and the world? If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear the rest, become a breakthrough news member at breakthroughnews.org. Slash subscribe.