Ranking the 2026 NFL Draft: Linebackers, Safeties and Defensive Tackles

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents to podcast that owns the NFL off season. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trade, every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement? Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free I Heart radio app. Search for ease and free agents. And listen now. It's a tough sport. It's not for everybody. You gotta be a little sick to love this game. And we got some sickos. Welcome to NFL Daily where linebackers are absolutely back. I'm Greg Rosenthal with me from across the sea. My friend, Ali Connelly, who is a linebacker, Sevant, would you say? Just an appreciator. Yes, we're going over linebackers. We're going over safeties.

1:00And we're going over defensive tackles. All the positions that most people in Gore ignore. We're going to go deep on today, Ali. I love it. I love when you get a linebacker draft. And everyone says it's boring. And I'm just sat there in my room till like seven in the morning, grinding the film, saying there's just more linebackers oozing out of everyone. I really do believe. Yes, linebackers. We got a couple of great rookies. We got better play. I think out of the veterans last year. And I do think people are coming around to the fact that man having a knockout linebacker who makes a difference in all three downs is like one of the most valuable things that you could have. And having these two guys at the top of the draft. I know it's big for you, some background. What is your background with the linebacker position and scouting specifically? Well, early in my scouting career, I did seven years exclusively scouting linebackers, digging everywhere. Does Penn have one? Does Harvard have one? Is there anyone available to be drafted by the league? That was the bulk of my scouting career was focusing on linebacker play. That's awesome. And that's why, yeah, this is really the alley

2:00kindly draft. I hadn't really thought about that. And so let's just get going with the top of the board. In general, we can talk about it's a deep class. I think we'll get to that. And it's what you want out of like a fully loaded class at a position, which is there's some superstar talent at the top. There's some fun middle class talent. You know, we could have more first round linebackers and then certainly a bunch of day two and then there's also depth. But the reason I think for the casuals out there are that Arvel Reese and Sonny Stiles from Ohio State are right there at the top. And I think just to start the show, let's just note we're including Arvel Reese in our linebacker podcast. You feel strongly about this. Ali, why is that? I feel strongly about it first. Well, let's just note those two played together. And it's maybe the most absurd linebacking tandem we've had since like the hurricanes are rolling in the 2000s. It's just preposterous. And I know he wants to be considered an edge.

3:00I know plenty of evaluators consider him as an edge. I think you'd just go through the film and grade skill by skill. Whatever your grading scale is, mine would be four to nine traditional NFL stuff. That the highest marks you give those knives, those eights, truly elite type traits, map up to the linebacker work. Whereas the things where you have maybe some question marks more so in the refinement in the technique than just the traits in the athletic skill is in the straightaway past rushing stuff. And there's a lot more development that needs there technically. And he's just solely reliant, I think, in the past first game on truth athleticism, just speed, power, speed to power and kind of winning a short edge and out athleteing people. Whereas there is such immense technical refinement for someone so utterly gifted as a true linebacker. And I think those skills match up so perfectly with what he's being asked of linebackers today. And I think a little bit of the scouting palences going on through the draft season is looking at linebackers in the bucket of the 2010s, even back to the 90s and what they were asked to do and what the requirements were, versus what a lot of the elite guys

4:01have been asked to do in 2026. So in this idea of what a linebacker is, you're not ignoring that he could be very valuable as a blitzer, as a past pressure, essentially in the Zach Bond mold. I don't know if there's another comparison of like how you see him being used, but you see that as a linebacker, which is different than I think a lot, how a lot of people are viewing them. Yeah, I think that old-school style, which sunny styles is more built in, which as you sit off the ball, it's really sift and find work. The front gets fractured, they kind of work through the space, they go and find the ball and attack that way. And then it releases blitzes, the odd mucked up look, blitzing from death. I do think off LVs can be a core part of like the pressure group and you move them around and you find matchups. If there's like a clown at right guard, then you can just kill for 20 reps. You just send them to go do that for 20 reps. But the way the league is playing right now with so much movement and motion from the offense, you got to find ways to address it. And what the best DCs are doing is having an off ball lineback who walks down to the edge and plays as an edge defender on early downs

5:01and you move them around either in coverage or in the blitz game and moves them around the formation defensively. I don't know why you wouldn't take the guy who's skills are so suited to that and say we could have the best one the league. Zack Bohn was most impactful player in the league two years ago for the best defense of the NFL. Nicki Minaj worried to similar things in a slightly different body type at safety. We could have that with maybe the best athlete to ever attempt to do it. Why would we not try and get the false multiplier and race ahead of the league with someone who just has a completely different level of athleticism to someone like Zack Bohn? Yeah, and I just don't buy like he's helping your pastor. I just don't buy that somehow. The positional difference, let's say with David Bailey, who's just more of a pure pastor sure is gonna be the difference of like maybe why you would take him ahead of our Val Reese. When I watch these two guys recent styles and I do want to just stick on Reese for now, despite the testing numbers, which for sunny styles were just completely outrageous. But they were outrageous on its own for our Val Reese.

6:02When they're actually playing football and you watch Reese on the field to me, he's more obviously like, wow. Like he just, just the way he moves and that's how my basic, you know, I look at it. Watching him is like, okay, like I don't think you have to be that smart to want to take him to overall in this particular draft if you're the Jets or if he falls to three, to me, I keep seeing tackles to the Cardinals. Why wouldn't they take our Val Reese? They absolutely need a lineback and if he falls to the Titans, why wouldn't they take our Val Reese? They could absolutely use him just because there's only so much crazy next level talent in this draft specifically or in any draft. And it just, it just looks like on paper to me, he has that and on film. What do you see from that angle of just being a difference maker? Oh, there's a difference maker. I think the diagnosis and attack feel is completely off the chain. The take on skills, the competitive toughness, the range, the tackling. It's like, all the minutiae of the position,

7:04I really do feel he doesn't an elite level than it's wrapped up as you mentioned in this uber athlete. And usually when you're going through the draft, your bounce between the two rights, like, okay, it's a really tentatively proficient player and you get some of these zooming lineback as you played in less complex systems. This is the guy who played in an NFL system with NFL communication. He's playing on the edge on early downs for the most part. He's playing the NFL role that I'm describing. Then they'd back him off the line of scrimmage or move him around in the in the past fresh game. I don't know why you wouldn't just adopt that position one to one, which is what the league is asking for anyway. So you can kind of designate it however you want. You can call him an edge defend. You can call him a linebacker. I think he's going to play in those multiple roles irrespective as the offense moves as they go through heavy personnel. You got to have erases on the field where you don't have to substitute all the time and go through different personnel groups and tip your hat on what you want to do. You got to have these kind of hybrid type players. And to me, he's just going back through recent seasons. It's really hard to find a player about that overwhelming a linebacker skill set. And I just don't understand why we're trying to force him

8:04to be out to now edge defend to say, hey, he can be this dominant password share. And if he has a dominant password share, that's great. I'm all good with that. I'm happy to say it. Wonderful. He's a 12 second season guy. What a great time role having. I just think there is such value in that degree of force multiplication. If that's a word by having this kind of movable piece at the second level, he can go and play on the line of scrimmage. I'm going to get you and Dana Jeremiah together next week on 40s and free agents. So you're going to get ready to make this case to him in terms of the positional value. It is interesting, though. I hadn't heard. Is he selling himself as an edge? That actually worries me a little bit. Because it's almost like I heard the Yahoo guys, Nate Tyson, Charles McDonald, they do a good job. And they framed it as like, they wanted to ask him, well, how do you see your next five years? And I think that's fair to maybe wonder how he sees himself. It is. But I mean, go look at Devon Lloyd's contract. And then go look at the ad-rushing contracts. Would you not try and sell yourself as an ad-russia? And if you've got the athletic traits

9:05that beat some out there, stands just straight speed off the ball, not quite the David Bailey rate. And I don't think that he's got that quite of that kind of first step quits. There's a lot of real technical issues. It's just a straight pass for sure. But if I was going into league and I was that kind of special athlete, let me try the really, really valuable spot. They'll still use me the way that I'm describing is the off-ball line back up. But they'll call me an edge. And then when we get the franchise tag territory, when we get to contract discussions, I can get the big time money. He literally could be one of those players that helps like change pay structure. If he's as good as you think he is, as we think he is, where a guy like that gets paid more in Zach Bond, started the process. Because if a guy like Zach Bond can get the contract that he gets, I think a player like Reese, if he's as good as we hope he's going to be, we'll sow the value of that position. I heard you say, go ahead. The last thing I really do want to touch on with him is, I think this idea of putting him in the edge book, it's almost narrow-minded,

10:06where I think the skills are so overwhelming, that he is the kind of guy you structure the defense around. Maybe you're not a team that uses a move line back a right now, Aaron Glenn, the Jets. They don't use this kind of hybrid line back a type. But if you get him in the building, you will be doing yourself a disservice to not have Zach Bond on Supacer. It would just be foolish coaching. It's not trying to play the game this way. If you just try and say, he's just going to be a wide-edged Russia, and we're going to let him go after him. We think it's going to be a three-year development plan. He'll be better in 2027. I just think you're doing yourself in the player disservice. Now that I think about it, I was thinking he's the smart, he's a good pick for the Jets at two, and they're thinking a little bit more about 2027, supposedly, and then he might have the higher ceiling. They might take him. But is that a good fit for him for the Reese fans out there? Not really. Although, this week, I don't know if you saw Ali, at the coach's breakfast, Aaron Glenn said there, he's going to be multiple on defense and working in some three, four principles, not just static. What do you think?

11:06Let's go. I think he's saying, if I get all Vell, we'll do whatever we can to move all Vell around. I'm into the idea. So Ali had Reese, I believe, as your highest rated linebacker prospects, since Luke Eekley, is that correct? Yep, that's correct. So where is Sunny Styles then on that spectrum, because in a normal season, and certainly the last handful of seasons, I'm going back to try to think about who's been the best recent linebacker prospect, I would imagine Sunny Styles would be ahead of all those linebacker prospects, and very high on this scale too, he just happens to be in this draft with his teammates, and in some people, like Daniel Jeremiah specifically, have him rated ahead of Reese, so it's kind of pick who you like. Yeah, and I think it's picked the play style. Reese is more in that vintage mold of off the ball, sea ball, get ball kind of clang him bang in the middle of the line of scrimmage. He's got unbelievable range in coverage, which Vell Reese, it's different. That is more of a pop star. Styles are saying is more of the traditional one.

12:07Yeah. Styles is more of the traditional one and has just more coverage range and more coverage chops. And so if you're valuing that level of coverage, it really comes down to what you value in the past first game with a kind of movable linebacker and early down front structure, which I know is boring, but is essential to coaching staffs. And then if you're just more of one of these, the Texans, the Nine as the Titans now, it's pretty static. It's a pretty traditional front. You're playing kind of four three football, and you need a dominant linebacker, and someone you can play all three down and carry someone in coverage. And your ideal linebacker is just Fred Warner. How close can we get to Fred Warner? Styles falls more into that bucket to me. And I do think with him, because the athleticism and the power, there is untapped potentials of blitzer, it's just that's more projection than what is evident on the tape in college. I love what you hear about him as a guy, as a student of the game, and do you think that shows up in terms of the way he plays?

13:09Yes, and I think it's going to make the transition so much easier. I think this position is a three-year development position now. There are so much on these guys' plate. The defense is so multiple. The offense is so sophisticated. I think you see that with all the starters now. It's a lot of guys you forget about, who go in day two, day three, and all of a sudden they're like five-year starters, but they didn't really kick in until the second, third year of their career. I think him playing in a full NFL communication system, that is the most complex thing for these guys to wrap their head around. And most of the linebackers is League of Terrible and Coverage, that you just got to live with that. Most guys are not good coverage guys. I think he can be a day one plus coverage player, which is a super skill that most guys are walking the league just ongoing to have. They're going to have to find that way there over time. That is the stuff that is really tricky for them to pick up and take that second, third season to get to. I do think he can hit the ground running in that way, which very few guys can. And look, I think the combine workout, and you see it, sometimes when you're watching him, not as much. He seems the guy who's just, he's in control

14:11and he's going to make the play, and he's not asked to be like, sprinting down the field. He does seem like if I thought about, I don't know who the comp would be at linebacker, but when we talked about Travis Hunter, for instance, a year ago where the game seems slow for Travis Hunter, that he can adjust his speed. That's another level. Maybe Sonny Stiles has a little bit of that to him. He does, and if anything, at times I'm like, can we give the guy some smelling salts? He's got knockout power. I would love him to just take over a quarter a bit more than he does do. I would like a little bit more thump and tenacity, but there is no disputing the technique and the violence when he's really getting after it. And so I just don't see, if you go through its skill set by skill set, where there's any degree of downside, it would have to be some poor scheme for off the field thing. I think him to not at minimum be a plus start, and I think that with the coverage range he has, as a former safety converted to linebacker, the history of those guys, recently who are actually at linebacker size,

15:11is a way better hit rate than just traditional linebacker, than trying to get them to pick up some of the coverage stuff. And he played safety for a long time. It's not like he was a one-year guy and then switched over, played in multiple systems, played in NFL defense. So I'm really confident that if you take him third or fourth overall, you at least will be able to say, we've got a six-year start and then that the ceiling is, how close can we get to Fred Wolner? So I did go back and listen to your guys show, and it's interesting because you taped linebackers first just because you love them so much. And it was early in the process. It was before the combine. And back then, like, people were not talking about styles, necessarily getting taken in the top five. He was 12th or so on the consensus board. And now it's very much more of an open conversation. Reese is still number two on the consensus board. But when you look at the top guys in the mock drafts, it's more of a conversation where styles could go anywhere from two to ten. I mean, you never know because he is a linebacker, whereas kind of early in the process,

16:12I don't know what changed. Maybe it just was the comment, or maybe it's just people catching up to like, hey, go where this draft actually is, and this is where the great talent is. You guys were kind of talking about him that way to begin with, but maybe the consensus at the time has changed in just two months. Well, I fall for the linebacker's hard. And when you see almost like a perfect technical linebacker who's that athletic, I fell pretty severely in week one against Texas and they're just carried on through to early in the draft process. I think with styles, where teams would have him ahead of our race is just, you do get to see more of the traditional linebacker player and almost perfect leveling college. And there is this untapped potential, which the combined gave towards us, there's so much burst off the ball. If he did, just playing a really attack-based system. If he went to the Cardinals, and they really wanted to still get after it as an attack-based defense with Nick Rollers, is their mortar is game in that vein than we've seen so far, whereas with Arvel, a lot of that stuff still comes on the edge.

17:13And even with the crazy explosiveness, he doesn't always play to that tempo. So I think with styles, they're just more certainty in the traditional linebacker play for the teams, at least, with still that feeling off. He could be difference making behind a line of scrimmage. And certainty is always a tricky word this time of year, but it does feel like there's only so many prospects in this class that have that feel that most everyone agrees about him. I would've included Rubin Bain and Carl Tate in Caleb Downs in different ways in that bucket, different levels, but a ton of styles is one of them. And it's just like, go where the draft is. And that's at the linebacker. One guy whose consensus spot has fallen quite a bit, actually, since you talked to that, I thought it was interesting, is CJ Allen? I'm a little surprised by that. So CJ Allen, the number three linebacker in this class, and from Georgia, great profile, extremely productive, seems to me like he has a pretty high ceiling.

18:14And I don't know why the consensus has fallen on him a little bit, but he's an interesting combination of ceiling, I think in floor, an exciting player in his own right, which again, to repeat the sunny styles point, wouldn't be maybe at that level, but would be the number one linebacker, I feel like in a lot of classes. Oh, yeah. In most of the class, the past 10 years, I think he'd be one or two, pretty comfortably. He's more in that short, thickly built, the Kobe Dean type, more Georgia certainly have a type, but he, more than anyone, is out to take souls on the football field. He just wants to hear everything that moves. He plays, I think, ahead of himself far too often. I think that will drive teams pretty bonkers, as they dive through things. And I know there's all the reports out there about, hey, he called the defense. I mean, if you go watch them actually play, they're rarely lined up correctly, they're consistently misaligned, sometimes the players need even in. So I don't think it's like a benefit to him to say, hey, he was calling the defense, not just checking things, the line is screwed, but why are they a mess then? If he's calling things all the time.

19:15So I think there's a lot of development need. I think he will be on that kind of three year arc, but he undoubtedly has unteachable athletic skill. So I gave you a little bit of a, a project here. I don't know if CJ Allen fits into these buckets. Like, do you have a player who is better, you think, then the consensus board, where the consensus board is at? It would be Kishon Elliott. I'd love it. From Arizona State. I know I keep talking to you about him, but I think the, I don't know where he is. I don't know where he is five on the consensus board. And he was 380th in February. So he's, he's making a run there. So I hope NFL Daily has helped with that. The people have got eyes on Kishon Elliott. Now, I think to me, he's a compact rundown player, plays with intellect and power. He looks to me like all these starting linebacks in the league, where it's not these crazy high-end explosive traits. And people go and chase those all the time, particularly in the second round. And then you look in year two, year three, go, where are they? Are they other playing on teams? Oh, they're not getting on the field anymore. And teams are more comfortable saying,

20:15most of these guys on grade and coverage can at least be solid in their run fit. And then can we kind of mask them with a really zone-based defense. There's a lot of split safety looks, there's a lot of coverage protection. And he just, me just fits that mouth. He is really, really smart. I think though he's not a great athlete, he actually is active and alive in coverage and picks, picks things up pretty well. And then it's just a mall around the box. Just kills people over and over again, what on one in space? So I think he's got all the traits of a starting linebacker. I would take him comfortably on day two. But based on where the consensus board is, at least it wasn't fair. I guess he's rising now. Maybe he won't last as long as I thought. Well, that is late fifth round. Arizona State, Keishan Elliott. And it just shows you how deep linebacker is that he's listed as like linebacker 15 or so right now. And I know you like the depth of this class, but who's a player that maybe isn't that middle tier? Because I think there will be a decent amount of day two linebackers

21:16taken. And I'm guessing this is where this guy comes from. A player that you're kind of lower on than consensus. The one I struggle with is Anthony Hill from Texas. He really does look the pop. And I'm open to just being completely wrong on the player. But that's just a, to me anyway, he's six, three, two, 43. He's going to be 20 years old. So it's like the perfect profile. If you can get him in the second round where I think he will go to invest that time in two, three years and then become a full-time starter. And he has the athletic profile to play in basically any system that he wants. I just find it to be so lacking in a lot of the technical details. I think there's a slight width that he's not always engaged in the fight for someone that big. You'd like to see him take people on and really bring the thunder over and over again. And to me is the kind of like generic football question of block destruction take on skills. Are they taught how much is it technique? How much is it the mentality of the player? I think that the number one point on the hit list

22:18before you can get to some of the skills involved is just they want to play violence. It's a contact sport. It's a collision position. How much they want to take guys on one-on-one when we're really getting after it. When you're facing an old pro center, when Creed Humphrey is firing off the ball. Are you willing to give it right back to him? I have real great flashes of it off the tape. If you go on social media, you'll find four or five clips and go, wow, but consistently over and over again, you got to bring the fight for 70 reps. It's just not quite there for me. And I just wonder if you can really develop that over time. Or if you give someone $20 million, they say, well, it's a pretty good payday. I don't really have to go throw my face into the fire every day. I mean, physicality is a trait, right? I mean, that's something you look for, especially at this position. Kind of compare him and TGL and because it's interesting, again, kind of going back to this draft process. Back in February, I think the idea was Anthony Hill was going to be battling for that kind of linebacker three spot. And maybe he will. And the league will wind up liking him. And him and CJ Allen were both ranked a little higher. They both have fallen a little bit.

23:19Whereas I look at Jeremiah's top 40. And there's a huge gap between those two guys. He sees CJ Allen. And I do find Jeremiah tends to reflect the league pretty often. Or at least a certain type of, you know, organizationally. And he has CJ Allen as a top 20 player in this draft. Hill barely cracking his top 50. How do you see kind of the comparison of those two, the physicality that that Allen brings? And I know we kind of short shrifted. If I did want to get into like the ceiling of it all, because he does feel like a guy who's very exciting to watch. And maybe is getting mislabeled a little bit as like a lower ceiling player when he does have a lot of explosive potential. Like he is a fun guy to watch. He might be as almost as fun as watching the Ohio State guys when I checked him out. He's just, he is kind of a blast to watch. He is. He's more frenetic and now controlling those guys. I think those guys know what they're doing every single down. I'm not sure he's always sure. He's often pointing things out to teammates that are just flat out wrong.

24:19It makes me tackle watching him. It's like the leader of the group. And he's just getting things wrong all the time. But man, when he arrives, he just kills people. He crushes them. He chases everything down. The range is off the scale. The play speed is off the scale. He is in that more short, stout, pocket rocket type mold. I always fall for those guys. I just can't help myself. I always fall for the guys who are six one, but play out the six four and just bring thunder to the point of attack over and over again. Yeah. Like and he's covering a lot of ground. And I know you're saying sometimes he didn't know, you know, the plays right. But like a lot of his profile, when you hear him talked about, almost feels like he's like, you know, the grudin' grinder. It's like that. The smart, tough, reliable guy. But I see a guy that's running all over the field. So that's a great combination. Maybe he's like the next London Fletcher or something. I agree that I think he's almost too eager to make plays. He'll get caught in the traffic and all that kind of stuff. So I think that's just a subtlety to his game. It's lacking.

25:19I think you can refine that. And that's what the two year, three year process, rather than try to tap into someone. Do you want to really get after this every single day? I think it's easy to try and refine someone who plays with real violence and aggressiveness and his flying all over the place and try to funnel that in. And if you get him into one of these systems where he's just playing off the ball and playing clean up duty, I think someone like the Saints, where it's a lot of six one stuff where he's just the one line back off there, just running chase, run, see, hit, and then go and play good coverage. I think he's, there's more quality stuff in coverage, I would say, than there is truly the take on skills. Now he's super aggressive and that stuff can be coached though. But he can really move in coverage in a different way and cover a ton of ground. I think he's ideally suitable where he's at right now. I haven't graded out as a quality starter. I've not had three guys with quality starter grades in. It has to be 12 years. And he's the third guy in there. So I'm with DJ on that. I think he's way high to being in the top 20 plays in the class than, than any of the guys on the list.

26:20Okay, so you have him then third. Who's, who's kind of in your, your next tier of linebackers, putting me on the spot here? Well, I have Kishon in that list. In the solid studs here, this is where the real meat, the classes. I love Jacob Rodriguez. I think by the time we get to draft, now I'm just going to close my eyes and move him probably to, to fourth. Maybe even as high as third. I just can't quit the guy. I have Kishon Elliott in that list. Mara's on a state. We got Josiah Trotter. We've got Jake Golday. I have Anthony Hill in there for the reasons I mentioned. There's still real talent in there, just I don't quite fall in love with the player. And I've got Kyle Lewis from Pitt, who's this kind of weird malleable. Is he a safety? Is he a nickel? Is he a linebacker? I'm not sure he can play a linebacker in the NFL, but he might be the most electric quickest player in the entire draft class. Then I think he could cover a role as one of these hybrid players moving around the formation. Okay, Kyle Lewis is, you know, projected again like a high third round type of pick. You mentioned Jeremiah Trotter's son.

27:21Isn't it like a little bit of a red flag that he has the same sort of profile as his brother who just came out and his dad and that's not the model of like a modern linebacker? And his brother, you know, hasn't really played much. I really like the brother. I think Jeremiah Trotter, Jr. is really, really intelligent. He just doesn't quite have the athletic skills. I think of what is demanded. Well, they're not, you don't seem to like him that much. You know, they're not, they're not playing him that much. I accept that, but how many guys are being let go? Blake Cashham was let go by the Jets goes and starts for the team. So that's just the way linebacker play is I think at the moment. Josiah is a footballing lunatic who really struggles to find the ball, but is interested in running through every human's face who comes near him. So, and he is a really, really potent ball. It's his brother does not have that level of first-step speed and kind of feel navigating through in the past for sure. So he can, I think, be a positive on third down where his brother is kind of a run down only type player.

28:21Got it. Yeah, the point in shoot type of guy. What do you think about the criticism for Rodriguez? I know we're bouncing all over the place. Nate Tyson, for instance, thinks that maybe he's not in it for the, in the fight enough, enough physicality for Rodriguez. That's a fair criticism. He's more of a bouncy dance between the cracks type player. You know, the kind of buzzword all the coaches use these days, which Jesse Minter brought to us all is block destruction. And when you use that verb, be a junior mind. It's someone just smashing someone, right? It's two-hand punch and stack and shed. But that would be a high tower. That would be a high tower. It's, it's absolutely done. A high tower. A number one guy in the board. But there's more to it than that. There's, there's throwbys. There's eye fakes. There's different ways to defeat the block effectively. And I think he's got so many tools to his back to just navigate through space and to navigate around people. I think he's probably more of a coverage first. Drop him into zone coverage. Sprint all over the field. Go find the ball and get it. And maybe he does have to be more of a sub-packaged guy for you.

29:22But those are the more valuable downs now. The, the actual, we're setting a heavy wall. You've got to throw your face into it. A few add downs. If you can play all three, that's when you move into the tier of all Val and Sonny. And I think CJ Allen can get there. He might be more coverage first, racing around all over the place. And then over time, could you become like an Aziz al-Shayet type player? If you can get a bit more tenacity out of him, I think that you could look at that. But he is just an incredible playmaker. I think some guys just know the sport, see it, feel it. The volume of plays on the ball, the amount of time he's undercutting plays, jumping plays. He's understanding a down-distance situation, all the punchouts, all the game breaking plays. I just think that he's going to make a whole bunch of plays. To me, he smacks up a guy with a really high national identity where everyone knows him. He's making a whole bunch of plays on Red Zone every week. He's playing for the Jags or whatever. It's like, wow, another punch out from Jake Rodriguez. Then the PFF scores come out. And he's in the bottom 25 linebackers in the league.

30:24The down-to-down consistency is not what you're looking for, but there's a whole bunch of game breaking plays. Like, peak Devon White or something? Peak Devon White is a good one. I like that. He's head out to Devon White. Still making those tackles. It's crazy. Seven, I just counted on the contents board. Seven or eight day two sort of prospects at linebacker. Do you have any favorite comps that could be, give me a positive, Anna or a derogatory one or both? I'd say Kyle Lewis as like a Jeremiah of Osu Karamoah. Oh, that's good. Is he a linebacker? Is he a safety? Can he do in a different frame? Some of the Emon Warry, Jalen, Peter, so far, is playing Nicholson snaps. He's playing weak side linebackers. He snaps, then we can do all these fun rotations where he's firing out to the half field. He just moves differently. Now, he has very little interest in tackling. And it is a contact spot.

31:24It gives me deep concerns. But if I, just imagine if you've got someone like Steve Spagnolo, the volume of what would be on the menu would be different. And if he just turns out to be really talented and coverage down the slot, even if it's just taking away Titans, he's got to be on the field. And you're going to have to try and live with the ups and downs. If a team can force him into the box and run at him over and over again, he's just going to have to live with the downside. I gotta, I gotta watch him. I mean, if he, if he moved like oh, so Korma, I mean, talk about a guy who moves different and it was obvious pretty early in his NFL career. JOK was like that. There's almost a Ivan Pace-type movement where the explosiveness of the ball is just jarring. And then he's really, really slippery, kind of, actually bouncing around. Now, you do get to see him go up against Jeremiah Love where you're seeing sake one, like movement skills. And he gets put on like three posters, a little bit concerning. You got to face Jimmy Gibbs and Bijan and sake one and Jeremiah Love as well in the NFL. But he played in a really complex system

32:26and he was kind of pivot player. They would move around to be the problem solver. So I think there's a little bit of JOK. And that and even JOK, and it where the leagues at right now, you question, can you live on the field and all three down? So I think he's going to be a pretty specific player. But he's one of those guys, whoever gets him clearly will have a vision for how they can use him all over the place, a bit Leo Chanel like something in that vein. And so I think I've just come around to the Chiefs that taking him forget about the profile anymore. He just makes a ton of sense for them. Oh, I love that. Maybe round two, round three, something like that. Harold Perk, probably round three, if we are to believe the consensus. Harold Perkens is a guy, if there was a draft after his rookie season at LSU might have gone in the top 10, right? I mean, he was like the next big thing. Yeah. And now he's projected 122. I'm ending the linebackers on a downer note, but just as, again, as a casual, it's like, what happened here? I know it sort of fell apart,

33:26but is there any hope here for a guy who was that productive early in his career to fall off that hard? It just shows you how long the draft process is. He is, and if Belichick was still in the league, he would take him in the second round. He loved those guys who were the high-end high school players who had the great onesies, and then maybe they fell off a bit. He would bet that he could coach it up. He just is, I think, too small to play through off the ball linebacker. And then with all the movement stuff, we discussed with Val Valris. Can you play on the line of scrimmage? He cannot. He is crazy, crazy explosive, more of a straight line mover than I kind of flipped the hips and turning coverage. It's all straight ahead, which is why the testing numbers are off the scale. And if you're Brian Flores, all the Falcons, and we're mugging up seven guys, and we're just going to rip off the ball, he has a speed, and you need a speed to be able to win in those systems. So for one of those teams as a package player, I think there's a possibility. Again, it would be that Ivan Paste type situation where there's ten unbelievable splash plays, and then a lot of it is pretty rough

34:27the rest of the go around. It's just how much you value that in a class with seven guys who could be truly solid starters. If we just need more Flores, I guess Durante Jones, maybe, could be that guy for Washington just to take these mismatched pieces that could be great in a fun defense and get the most out of them. So he is not a mismatch. It's just pure speed, and the speed is beneficial. There is no power. He seems often confused, but by the fact it's Saturday, let alone that they're playing football. So you're betting on, well, someone has to get off the ball so fast, everyone panics. And that's what we're paying for. A deep, fun class. We could do linebackers all day. But let's take a break. Let's come back, talk about a really good top end of the safety crop and the defensive tackles in a minute. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped.

35:27This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency. The combine. The NFL draft pro days trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money on 40s and free agents. We break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts and team fits to my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. They got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis. Real conversations every week. Well, not about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL Daily. My last show. My last few segments

36:27before take a little time off and go see the parents. We've been cranking daily since training camp started. But we'll still have you covered next week. Jordan's got you. Shucks got you. Ali and Daniel Jeremiah's got you. But yeah, I feel a little bit like my kids in the last few days before spring break, you know. You are the teacher for me just playing like a movie for me to watch. I'm just enjoying your analysis. So thank you, Ali, for carrying me home. Just repeated Kyle Lewis tapes and you off on your way to your parents? Oh, no, forget Kyle Lewis because I think you're true beloved in this class. Why do I always like confuse the two names? The safety from Indiana. What's his name? A Lumeau. Oh, man. You spent 25 minutes. I'm Louis Moore. Wow. On your show. And, you know, I've directed people to it when you've been on the show.

37:27But if you're really into the draft and you like this kind of coverage and would want to expand the read optional, Ali and John Ledyard, I'm going to just break, break contain here and actually start our safety conversation. Give me the like 60 second elevator pitch on Louis Moore before we get to the big names. A guy who's like projected to go like in the middle of day three, but you believe has a lot more to him. I do. I mean, he's tiny and there's going to be questions of is he a nickel? Is he a true kind of on the shelf safety? I think he's quite got the lateral quicks to go down and play in the nickel spot. I think you need real physicality to play there at the high level in the league right now. I think his brain just functions at wolf speed and you can just see it over and over again. Oh, not just kind of reading and jumping routes which is the most obvious stuff, but just kind of shutting down reads really quickly in the progression. Understanding everyone to Simon. I just need to operate a different pace. And it's weird to me that I just watched Indiana run

38:27through everyone's face in college football. And now I'm hearing when people are knocking Mendoza, well, you know, the defense is really good. It was really good. And those playoff games, defense is really good. And yet I'm looking through the draft. And I can't find an Indiana player who a team is falling in love with. It was the Angelo Ponds, but it's he too small, eight and fish of the linebacker. Another really intelligent player. But he can go on day three and half. It's like, didn't these guys just more Alabama in the Rose Bowl? Didn't they destroy my amy defensively? Didn't they destroy Ohio state in the big tentative game defensively? And none of these guys are viable enough to go and play on Sundays. I did. Someone has to be good enough to play on Sundays. And I think that if he played in every blank and ship type role, we're not talking about a superstar here. Just a backside safety. We're free range to go and find the ball and make plays. He works a different speed to everyone else. And he's a guy I would want to make to you. 25 years old. But you call them the best goal line player in the country. That's 221 on the big board. I'm going to be following Louis Moore. If you listened closely last year, you know, we asked

39:28Oli for just a deep under the radar type of guy that he loved. And one of them was Efton Chisholm. Who made the Patriots roster is a hero to many small whites in New England and who knows who might have a fun career. If nothing else, he contributed to a team that made the Super Bowl, which is a great result for an undrafted free agent. It's time for charging into the offseason presented by Apple card for all your game day purchases. Let's go to the top of this safety class. Really the top three are all expected to go in the first round. What kind of impact do you think Caleb Downs can have? Like right off the bat in his career and kind of where do you put him, assuming he's number one at safety for you compared to the rest of the entire draft class? I think he's not one safety to me. I think just overall in terms of the fundamentals and having the fewest negatives on the report, he's an unborn player

40:28in the draft. Whether he has the playmaking upside of someone like a novel recent sunny styles. I think it's fair to debate and then the positional value that falls into that too. I would value a hybrid line back a slightly upper of a hybrid safety in terms of what you can do structurally. But I see flash of his game. I, you know, people to talk about him, I think in different ways. I see elements in how he is used and as the pivot point of the entire defense and what they wanted to do on a unit that had probably four first round picks. He was the centerpiece of everything they tried to get too defensively with a Super Bowl champion defensive coordinator. That does matter to me. And I think there are flashes in usage of a Buddha Baker with more of a Brian Branch playstyle as I put it where he's kind of a slot. He's more fluid than explosive whereas Buddha is a bit blurrier, bit more explosive off the ball. But there is real intelligence. There is unbelievable tenacity and get after it type stuff.

41:28Unbelievable technique. And almost everything he does. He's pretty flawless technically. And so it's difficult to go through and try and find something to complain about with the player. Yeah. And a guy who you saw in multiple systems before Patricia got there at Ohio State obviously was at Alabama early. I think that's huge. I always think and this is more of a broader question for you, but you can apply it to the Caleb down however you want. That the breadth of the career it calls tends to get overlooked a little that like the years and I know you want a player to develop of course. But you should if you see high points earlier in the career and his ability to adapt in different systems to me that that is a huge plus in the earlier years I feel like should should matter a lot especially if you see something good and then maybe it's not there quite as much at the end of their career. Certainly of a DB played for the most sophisticated, complex defense and all football and a complete genius in Nick Sabin and he was the linchpin of that defense and he goes to an NFL DC

42:28playing in an NFL communications system and he's a linchpin of that defense. It kind of kind of matters to me a lot. Yeah. And I do think you can get a lot broke by chasing the freshman year. That has happened. Particularly in the second round is where teams usually bet on that stuff. And sometimes it's just the player got found out the play didn't develop and you just going back to betting on athletic traits that were always there, which is why they were high end recruit which is why they started as a freshman for good school anyway. So I do put a little bit more emphasis on the most recent year unless you can find a staff change, a system change, a positional change or the player explains it away. And when you say that when it just in terms of the lack of negatives and just clean as prospect that he could be as as good as number one, it makes me think and everyone seems to agree on kill downs. You never know. There's always disagreements about different players but he seems like that Kyle Hamilton type that everyone knew was going to be good Linderbaum actually just kind of thinking to that draft was similar to that too.

43:28Everyone was kind of like why is Linderbaum falling to our kill downs feels like that he could be that guy if he does fall. I don't I don't see why he would in this draft. And yet, I don't know, we tend to do this at safety. We being the NFL and I do work for this. Yeah. I think it's in play. I think it's in play from to go as low as whether it's the cowboys or even beyond that. I think it depends on old school mentality versus new school who's running the building and whether people are drafting to archetypes of players of what they view as a first round pick versus who can be the most impactful for us and have kind of first round value playing every down at a high level would be first round value to me. That's why I don't get caught up in the position on designations as much so the people the only position I give extra grading points to to inflate the the number is caught about because it's clearly the most valuable one over the net to me. It's got a mass as many good players as you possibly can. And I think down to he's not quite Hamilton because the length difference is pretty vast. I don't think he's as good deep in the field as Kyle Hamilton was coming out of Notre Dame. And so that that impacts the great slightly.

44:28And I think first round safety is particularly from the old school mindset is if the guys are making plays in the ball from the middle of the field, which doesn't happen in the league anymore. There's like three guys who can do that and you're just looking to have one if you have one. Teams aren't structured that way anymore defensively, but I do think that's still hanging out there that if you're not the kind of ball hawking guy from the middle of the field, how valuable can you be as a safety. And as you said, we go through in this Hamilton and there's bright levels like great football player. He's got to go in the second round. You don't take slot safety hybrids in the first round. I would take a dominant slot safety hybrid as soon as I can get them. Coupa de Gine, Brian Branch, Jalen P.T. Kyle Hamilton, seemed pretty important to some of the best groups in the NFL. I mean, if you if you're redrafting, all those guys go top 15. Coupa de Gine might go top 10 in this draft, let's say if you could somehow mind trick yourself into like knowing the career. Like Coupa de Gine to top five players. So yeah, why why not Caleb Downs?

45:28I love that. And maybe the league is coming around because they did give out a lot of like three-year, 39 million dollar contracts to safeties this offseason with a lower ceiling, but a high floor of guys that were available. That's charging into the offseason presented by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app today and start earning daily cashback on all your game day purchases from tickets to tailgate munchies to merge. Subject to credit approval. Let's talk about a superlative I'm going to give out, which is the weirdest scouting note of maybe this entire draft process, which is the fascination of a manual McNeil Warren, the Toledo player who is in the mix to be the second safety, along with Dylan Theaneman from Oregon. And both of them are probably first round picks. And his obsession with his mouthguard and just always play in a round with that.

46:28Have you ever seen anything like this, Ali? Oh, once I discovered it with McNeil Warren and it's every single play. There is something wrong with the helmet. There's something wrong with the mouthguard. He's chatting to the official. He's a ball of snap. He's still putting the mouthguard in. Ball will be mid-flight. He takes the mouthguard out. He puts the mouthguard back in. Once you see with him, you see with Zaki Wheatley in this class. There's like three or four guys. I don't know. There's something going on in the water where the mouthguard is. I know it's like vibe or coolness. Or it doesn't fit. But it is preposterous and frustrating. And genuinely impacts his play in a way that annoys me. Yeah, speak to that a little bit. Like he, what it delays him a little bit. The ball will be snapped and he'll go, oh no, the balls in play. Let me put my mouthguard in. We're now two beats into the rep. Now he's crazy explosive. All sorts of juiced up. He can make up the time. But I think it speaks to a little bit to attention to detail. Focus in the game. And that focus is evident. I think just generally in coverage.

47:28He's a massive gambler. He makes an unbelievable amount of plays on the ball. But a lot of it is gambling rather than reading, reacting and processing, understanding, I think what's what may be coming his way based on down distance and situation. And it's just, I'm off the ball. I see it. I trigger it. And I'm a better athlete than everyone on the field. Even when he's playing Kentucky in the SEC, he's just a better athlete than everyone he's going up against. He's going to get away with some bad habits. So, him and, as I mentioned, them and are in the mix to be the number two safety. He is fun to watch. I mean, you can just pull up the tape of all the force fumbles. McNeil Warren had. And there's a million of them. A lot of punchouts. A big, big, good athlete. I don't know if he quite passes my moves. Different threshold. But he moves well. He just, you look at him and you're like, oh, yeah, that's an NFL player. And he will be, like, I just, you can, you can see it. Who is your choice between those two and in kind of where do you think they fit into the larger

48:28picture? I love Tiananmen. I think Oregon sometimes is hard to tell with his profile. He plays such a specific system that is not unique to them. But they're the guys we push it to the limit. The most I would say where it's a lot of three safety stuff. And he's playing in the middle of the three safeties. And they really pack the middle of the field intentionally to try and offset a lot of football. So just the geometry of the field becomes really narrow. And it's nothing how you would play in the league where you're playing on half the field. And you've got this wide aperture to kind of keep focus of everything. So it's pretty narrow situation he's playing in. Then when you go back to Purdue, I think he's almost even better at Purdue than he was a Oregon. And he's playing all NFL safety stuff at his half field that's post safety. He's not around the box as much. Oregon. He was effectively in all three linebacker for a lot of the work that he did around everywhere, making a ton of plays. Our rage is just rage. Our rage is athlete. We found out in testing. Don't need quite plays

49:28to that speed all the time as he did as a tester. But at Purdue, I think you get to see more of the traditional safety work you'll be asked to do in the NFL. I just think that the work there was better. To your point earlier about digging back through the guys in their previous history, you find a guy booked it into a certain system. Can you go and find him playing more in the role he would be asked to play in the NFL? I think the work was actually better. Well, and you also it's a skill set to be able to pick up and fit in two different systems. It's going to happen in the NFL. You're very likely going to have two different coaching staffs on your rookie contract alone, like, unless you're drafted by, you know, the Tomlin, Harbaugh, you know, Ravens and Steelers. I guess you can get lucky and hope that that happens. Yeah. He's an interesting guy where he just, the enemy where he feels like a rock solid pick. But he's a testing freak, which is like a nice, like a nice combination. I, he has shot up the consensus board over the last couple of months. I think the idea was these guys were going to go in the second round. And the enemy might

50:28have been deeper into it. And now I think the consensus is they're both going in the first round. And look, I heard legit whispers that I think was a little bit more of dot connecting that like he goes high as Cincinnati, which is Cincinnati. I know loves him. And then I just think that the question for them is, the kind of core crop of potential or pro players are going to go plus Mendoza or quarterback. And then it becomes a pick who you just love after that. And maybe someone false to them. They won't expecting maybe Bade, maybe Bailey bounce. You think they would take down. I think they would take downs too. But I think as they kind of gain planet out they think, well, what if that happens? And then we've got 50 players and we've got to pick the guys we just love. positional value, I think they're so in love with the anime and it would be hard for them not to just pull the trigger and Give them what the class is like. We're gonna get shockers. This what happens when you get these kind of draft classes and it wouldn't Shock me necessarily if they decided to go that way. I

51:29Hate thinking about just this year, but there's only so many defensive backs Yeah, linebackers even but they're not kind of I don't think they probably should be drafting that linebacker But like I don't think they'll be looking at CJL and although that's not the craziest idea with with the roster that they have But they need guys that Can save everyone's job and help the defense this year and so I think I think the adamant like could be that guy It's not a bad fit. Let's move on to the defensive tackles unless you have just One more safety take whether it's positive or negative you just need to get out there You've spent all this time you said something you try to watch all these guys, right? You try to watch What is your process actually? I'll just ask you that watch every player every snap Every player every step so define every player because you can't like they're in theory. There could be 400 players. So where do you get to with every player? This year probably it's gonna be about 260 I think

52:31You can you can leave that out there man 260 every snap for five games isn't enough It depends on the player on if there's cross-off guys around like it's just not for me Then I'll just cross them off if someone tells me there's a medical flag on a late-round guy. I'll cross them off But for everyone he's gonna go in the first four rounds there are thereabouts. Yeah Don't this is like John asked me this too, and you got to say it's a superpower to not have children As everyone else is having like fun successful fulfilled meaningful lives I am in the cave watching safeties from Missouri You're younger. It's something people don't want to talk about in general um In in some ways the job actually is easier with a loving family and children My my son right here is is in the room just giving me a fulfillment that I couldn't Otherwise have which makes it easier to do my job on the other hand It's a huge time drain and it makes your job way harder when that happens

53:35You have to be able to do you suddenly have two jobs and one of them is As Alan come and see and more important than your actual job that it actually uh Yeah, but no one ever wants to say that because it's like you know It makes it makes you sound ungrateful or it almost sounds like hitting out At the people like yourself without without having it But what I I like that we're recognizing Ali that it's just an advantage It's like analytics. You're taking advantage of the system Yeah, you're all I mean, oh deeply sad man Um Don't you feel though and now we're we're way off track considering I gotta get out of here soon I gotta get on that plane go see Tom and Debbie in Massachusetts When you're like watching like a seventh round safety Let's say Bishop Fitzgerald of USC. Have you watched it by the way? I have watched Bishop Fitzgerald when you're into like game six of Bishop Fitzgerald. Don't you just think like I've had enough or or no that's how much you love ball in deep within this

54:35I think it's just a love of ball, which is pretty yeah, I love a bowl and I care about being accurate And I think it's it's just cheating to watch five games and so you've got a full complete picture of a player and You're gonna then Go out publicly and start addressing like what a team didn't the draft when you haven't had the full scope evaluation of the team is what the effort into into doing Is the tea is the team watching every set? I guess they are if someone like you as they are of Bishop Fitzgerald I would hope so the someone on the staff is watching every game of Bishop Fitzgerald. Okay I don't know the process. I'm always really fascinated by other people's process Certainly within the NFL but also in our industry. So I hope hope listeners like that conversation and Yeah, they're it's great like the juice that you get from finding a guy that you love and in the in the deep browns like like Louie Moore But I was just handed a piece of paper that says officially as we were playing my son

55:37Is now the number one player in the world and we tennis according to the to the rankings so you see and wouldn't you Rather be handed that note than what I mean is it smits a eight game for Arizona the fulfillment that that gives me that I I have a success that he's he's made it I'm Daniel Jeremiah and I'm Greg Rosenthal and this is 40s and free agents the games may be over But the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah mind to Greg free agency the combine the NFL draft pro days trades This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money on 40s and free agents We break down every move that actually matters from my draft evaluations mock drafts and team fits to my top 101 Free agents and how real rosters are built cap space Contracts and all the tough decisions included they got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams Rebuilding it's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real what's noise

56:38And what it means for your favorite team smart analysis real conversations every week Well, I'm about to smart but definitely analysis listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or ever you get your podcasts Let's get to the defensive tackles and if I've been You know spending some time here. It's it's only partly because I don't know what to say about this defensive tackle class I'll start this way. There's like a big group At the top and no one can really agree. It's four or five players Peter Woods from Clemsons in that mix Katie MacDonald from Ohio State Caleb Banks with his very unique Frame from Florida. They're Lee Hunter from Texas Tech Kristen Miller from Georgia. Yeah, all five of those guys Could go somewhere in in the late first maybe somewhere in the second round Do you have a favorite of that group and then on top of that do you have any of them graded as first round players? No on grade as a quality starter

57:41It's a lot of big room cloggers and then sorting through do you think anyone's got the juice to maybe be a three down player or in that second Bandua referencing there It's really light players upfield rushes and you're trying to figure out who'd quite has enough mass or understanding To just play all three downs for us. It's a lot of rotational players And then it's just how you value which part of the rotation the rundown. I think versus Obviously the the passing downs and just trying to figure out who could be that crossover player And that makes it that makes it really tough in the evaluation process The one who has probably the the best chance at doing that if healthy is probably Caleb Banks I think I've just kind of fusing the two together Unbelievable talk off the ball unbelievable power in his hands Just the the foot problem is it is a massive concern So very some of the Johnny Newton just keeps fracturing the foot over and over again Obviously untraditional size six six six seven for an interior player So the the pad level and technique is it's pretty skew if and then he just goes missing

58:44for massive stretches of games even against bad competition where You're the biggest fastest strongest guy on the field at all times. He buries great competition Just one off snap just it's almost Chris Jones like how quick the wins are inside Why is it not arriving ten times a game against bad competition? So he's the one who's probably gonna break your heart whether GM's like I just have to feel it in my bones We can get him in the building in our building in the right system it'll work out and three years You're wondering why you drafted the guy. Wait, he was the one during the combine I'm watching and they show some of the highlights And then just like wait, how is this guy not a top 15 prospect? This is awesome. This is cool This is a guy to get Excited about if you were an NFL GM and You've got let's say like a late like a early round three pick and and these guys have all fallen or late second or something who is the one You know kind of with how defenses are run now where you just feel like he's gonna be a solid player

59:44He's gonna help our team. I'm not swinging for the fences here But he's gonna be my guy that's gonna help us maybe even get a second contract for us I love Dominic Orange from Iowa State the big citrus Big enormous nose tackle, but I think he can move better than a lot of these other guys I think Lee Hunters more of the the rumplugging guys who are going to go in the second round I don't quite understand why he's in a kind of different category on the consensus But what I think he's in the 80s or somewhere like that and Hunter and some of the plays about orange is not in that Five pack that I mentioned who were all between 25 and 47 although the the people that I trust more I feel like are bucketing them more 35 to 50 to 55 something like that, but yeah, you're right Dominic orange Big citrus what an interesting that's unbelievable. Yeah, that's it. Come on now Uh, but he is I don't there's not that much of a distinction to me with someone like McDonald's who I think will be the one who sneaks into the back In the first round where you're saying big like tiley Williams with the lines big wrong clogger is there may be some

1:00:49Passion sauce we could tap into overtime even if it's just not back power or walk back power And it kind of helps everyone else win and he just kind of has a big presence in the middle line of scrimmage I think orange has got real lateral quicks for someone as big as he is with the the big heavy anchor Hold at the point of attack Alive run to eat on early downs around him, but the motor is outrageous He drops out into coverage and he drops out and he blasts running backs in space So if you're looking for okay, he's just got some under the hood movement skills that weren't quite Central part of the defense. He was asked to play it and just maybe there's a tim settle like arc in there where he's just in the rotation is a nuisance Whilst the the star players go win off the edge over and over again Dominic orange is the one I would bet on okay Tim settle like arc Tim settle did get a Surprisingly good contract and every team that has him is like man, I Wish we had Tim set settle back whenever they lose him So it's it's a totally fair comp But also kind of shows where this defensive tackle class is that Peter Woods

1:01:52I want to get your opinion on him just because the the Clemson product Or I think initially this is where I think the league told the draft next that like no we're not really that into him You guys are into him. I'm not totally sure why Ranked super high like if you were looking at in season rankings from a lot of the drafting even January stuff And now it's settled back to the pack I don't know if you have any Peter Woods of Clemson talk who could still be a first round pick potentially Yeah, I think that's that's still in play because one of these interior guys I got to go I'm gonna get the Seattle New England Philadelphia effect that those teams will build with Internal pass rush and like waves of those plays and so Teams are going to try and chase at the Lions fried to chase with a play who was not that anyway I was like we got to take him. We need internal push Woods is crazy explosive off the ball He is a a small fellow for someone playing inside. He's built like Murray's Hurst with that kind of quick twitch off the ball Describe small fellow though. What is his size six two two ninety eight

1:02:54So you're looking there. I mean that is that is small that is in the bottom five percent of defensive tackles Draft in the past decade He which is yet crazy statement on this sport. What a weird sport It's but it's a size and power position and he just has the speed And another guy who goes missing for long long stretches And can you really live on those early downs or is he a situational pass first year and you draft situational Passfers in the first round they draft and even with situational passfers just playing inside in the NFL It's a speed to power position not just their role talk off the ball Type situation. So he kind of falls between a bunch of positions I get why people fell in love with him is just unbelievable explosiveness For an inside player the production is really poor the production fell this season He was a unanimous top 10 selection a year ago and then the production really declined And there's motor concerns to he just he just slows down during games and slowed down throughout the season Yeah, to bring it back around to where we started the conversation

1:03:55I feel like Anthony Hill was a guy people thought might go Before the season top 10 top 15 and then he get more data you find it out. You watch every game You know, I hope I hope you don't see what I was saying about watching every game as a criticism It's a respect and I think what people don't get about that. It's not about Um, you know being robotic about it. You got to have a real deep love for the game to go to go that deep How do you 20 minutes of McNeil Warren's mouth got if you're not digging through Every game that's why That's why we do the read optional podcast the way we do it. It's why we do seven hours on six safeties It's just the way we do. Yeah, I had to bring up that was like the most Amazing note and it is the right way to do it because I I did the QB index for so long and I never understood You know, the only way to evaluate it was to watch every single throw every single week because If you miss to me the 17 game chunk or 16 games back in the day was like the best way to evaluate it If you miss like if you miss an entire

1:04:57Game or stretches like it's just it is a totally different picture That that is how it should be done I have to admit though And it's it's the worst part of me as a draft as an analyst in general Sometimes when I'm watching for all the draft prospects once I get deeper deeper. I always think like Oh, wouldn't that be better spent just watching NFL tape right now? I could just be one because that's how I know I'm not a real draft Nick like you or like like a lot But I have said this a jump before I do and there'd be great value in a team in just having someone watch like the 10 or 15 best Plays of a player put in their own board together putting it in envelope and then three years down the line open the envelopes Because I think you can massively overthink the players and you can start juicing up things against either lower competition Or just had a good game or the game plan was excellent the player wasn't a function of it I think if I was running a building which will never happen unless as the London Jags and Tony Khan is feeling you know Let's go Then I would employ someone probably gargose and thought to say just watch 10 clips of every player put you that book together

1:05:58We'll put it in envelope and in three years. We'll open up and find out what we wrote. I think in this stuff Yeah, you could do the same with the like the consensus board just drafting off that in general But what fun would that be My only thing is for some reason I'm like watching this is like man I I'm like itching to get to like the Kyler Marie tape from that I just I'm already like getting a little itchy for NFL football and and want to go back But that will spend a lot of our off season talking about that Allie is the best at what he does great way to cap the week. Let's hit that music the next time You will hear from us on the feed. It's gonna be a different us The kids are taking over the show as I mentioned when when Jordan was on the show from the owners means It will be Jordan Rodriguez and Nick shook In the feed on Monday. I'm heading to Massachusetts But the draft series with allie's not over yet. We'll do that on the other side. See you then

1:06:59I'm Daniel Jeremiah and I am Greg Rosenbach. I know that Greg We're teaming up on forties and free agents the podcast that owns the NFL off season This is where teams are built free agency combine pro days trade every move matters From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together quarterback movement surprise signings We'll tell you what it means and who really wins open your free iHeart radio app search forties and free agents and listen now This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human